Canterbury Park Race 7 Sat July 19 20 horse field

[mnmark]

Canterbury Park’s Extreme Race Day, now in its eighth year, will be held Saturday, July 19. Exhibition races with camels, ostriches, and zebras have become the main draw on Extreme Day, last year’s attendance was a record 20,291, but this season the program will include the return of ‘The Battle of the Surfaces.’ This pari-mutuel race will feature 20 horses, the largest field in North American racing in 2014, competing against each other simultaneously at one and one-sixteenth miles on the turf and one mile on the dirt.

The two starting gates will be staggered so that the final time of the race is approximated to be the same for both the turf and dirt. Canterbury Park officials have analyzed the varying speed of the turf and dirt courses as well as the class of the horses competing, and have judged that the closest finish would result from the turf horses racing an extra one-sixteenth of a mile. The starting gate stalls will open in unison and it will be up to handicappers to determine which horses will be the best when the horses finish at the same finish line in front of the grandstand. Twelve thoroughbreds have been entered for the turf and eight for the dirt.

Each horse will be an individual betting interest with win, place, show, exacta, trifecta, and superfecta wagering offered. The order of finish will be determined by best finish position regardless of which surface the horse is racing on, so it is possible to have an exacta payoff comprised of a horse racing on the turf and a horse racing on the dirt. The Battle of the Surfaces will be the seventh race on a 10-race program.

Canterbury Park was the first track to successfully attempt such a race when it debuted during the 2007 Extreme Day. The following year the starting gates failed to open simultaneously and The Battle of the Surfaces seemed doomed. Canterbury’s Vice President of Racing Operations Eric Halstrom is determined to make it a success this Saturday.

“We showed that this could work in 2007 and the fans loved it. We were disappointed the next year when the gates did not open together, but it was technology that failed us not the race,” Halstrom said. “We have tested and tweaked the gates and the distances to make this an exciting event that race fans will only experience at Canterbury Park and believe we are creating the most unique wagering opportunity in the history of racing for handicappers across the country.”

The 2014 Kentucky Derby field had 19 horses. This 20-horse field of Battle of the Surfaces will be the largest in the country this year.







Any thoughts on how what surface has the advantage based on the fact that they are running an extra 1/16 of a mile n the turf. I know when they ran it the first time it was big advantage turf but i believe they ran the same distance that year.

[Clocker]

Any thoughts on how what surface has the advantage based on the fact that they are running an extra 1/16 of a mile n the turf.

I'd say that Highway 83 would have the surface advantage. Leave Canterbury, turn right on 83, and head south to Mystic Lake Casino. They have some video poker machines there that offer much better betting opportunities.

[HuggingTheRail]

Agree with Clocker that it is probably a race I wouldn't touch...

That said, if I were to play it, I would pick one surface, and completely ignore the other...I would hope that if the turf horse wins, that the 2nd and 3rd turf horses are close by and beat the dirt horse, or vice versa.

Now you have me wanting to open the PPs :bang: :D

[Clocker]

Now you have me wanting to open the PPs :bang: :D

I am going to show incredible self-control and wait for the charts. :p

[Stillriledup]

This sounds interesting.

So, does anyone know the date and race in 2007 that this happened? I'd like to look at the equibase chart to see how the race ran and the pool sizes.

Thanks.

[Rise Over Run]

This sounds interesting.

So, does anyone know the date and race in 2007 that this happened? I'd like to look at the equibase chart to see how the race ran and the pool sizes.

Thanks.
July 22, 2007, races 13 & 14. BRIS does not show any wagering results or pools.

[cj]

Shouldn't be very tough to figure out if the turf or dirt course will be favored after a few races, but you still have to pick the winner.

[Stillriledup]

Shouldn't be very tough to figure out if the turf or dirt course will be favored after a few races, but you still have to pick the winner.

Its only easy if you actually watch the first 6 races.....won't be as easy if you tune into the signal with 5 MTP to this specific race, which is what i plan on doing.

[Valuist]

I'd say that Highway 83 would have the surface advantage. Leave Canterbury, turn right on 83, and head south to Mystic Lake Casino. They have some video poker machines there that offer much better betting opportunities.

You may not even have to go that far. On the first floor of Canterbury they have blackjack. Not sure about the video poker, though.

[therussmeister]

Shouldn't be very tough to figure out if the turf or dirt course will be favored after a few races, but you still have to pick the winner.
It's tough to figure because they are running different distances. The first year it was a no-brainer that the turf horses would win. Canterbury's turf course was always much faster than the dirt.

[cj]

It's tough to figure because they are running different distances. The first year it was a no-brainer that the turf horses would win. Canterbury's turf course was always much faster than the dirt.

I realize that, still think it will be pretty easy to figure out. I'll post before the race what I find.

[cj]

Its only easy if you actually watch the first 6 races.....won't be as easy if you tune into the signal with 5 MTP to this specific race, which is what i plan on doing.

then why bother?

[Stillriledup]

then why bother?

Because there's 20 betting interests. Its only 6,840 to box the field in the tri. :D

[rastajenk]

Wouldn't be surprised if it paid a something-something-All.

[Thomas Roulston]

And I wonder what the purse distribution will be.

But there was serious talk of running real 20-horse fields on the turf course at Woodbine a while back.

[PhantomOnTour]

a) this is a race to watch, but not bet
b) I do not envy the race caller at Canterbury...good luck dude

[HuggingTheRail]

a) this is a race to watch, but not bet
b) I do not envy the race caller at Canterbury...good luck dude

Never even thought about the poor announcer.....wow, definitely need to tune in for this one :ThmbUp:

[kmac1470]

Its also the first leg of the late win 4.


Saratoga Boot should win the turf race pretty handily.

Joshua's Journey and George Ray would be my dirt picks, but the turf horses really should be tough.

[PhantomOnTour]

From a future handicapping standpoint regarding runners coming out of this race; will they provide separate splits in the chart for the dirt and turf runners?

I presume most riders will ride against the runners near them, as though there wasn't another race going on on the other surface.
Going to be very tough to judge runners coming out of this race.

[cj]

From a future handicapping standpoint regarding runners coming out of this race; will they provide separate splits in the chart for the dirt and turf runners?

I presume most riders will ride against the runners near them, as though there wasn't another race going on on the other surface.
Going to be very tough to judge runners coming out of this race.

In the past, for the PPs, they were treated like two separate races.

[cj]

I realize that, still think it will be pretty easy to figure out. I'll post before the race what I find.

Was hoping to do this, but just don't have the time today. I wouldn't bet the race anyway without races at the same distance being run earlier on the card.

[rgustafson]

And I wonder what the purse distribution will be.

But there was serious talk of running real 20-horse fields on the turf course at Woodbine a while back.

I believe the purses will be distributed as if it were two separate races.

[Clocker]

Here is the link for the live video feed from Canterbury (http://www.canterburypark.com/LiveRacing/RaceReplays/tabid/107/Default.aspx). Click the link under the video to see it on Windows Media Player.

Sorry, if you aren't watching, you just missed the ostrich race.

[Mr_Ed]

Congrats to the winning connections:

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q517/chtrwd2/os3_zps85c34b41.png

[Mr_Ed]

Bailing right after the finish line:

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q517/chtrwd2/os1_zpsb141fc98.png

However, the race was not w/o incident, as to the far right............oops:

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q517/chtrwd2/os2_zpsa31b14a9.png

[titans1127]

I've been enjoying watching the novelty races so far. Only thing I find thats a problem about the 20-horse race is if you didn't know they were running 2 races at the same time the program conditions don't even make mention of it. At least thats how the Bris program pages are. They just mention a mile and a sixteenth on the turf and horses 13-20 are MTO which could be assumed to be auto scratches.

[Mr_Ed]

Nobody knows where to go..................... ;)

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q517/chtrwd2/cant_zps3cfa22de.png

[Stillriledup]

Didnt seem like the gates opened at the same time...or, was it just my imagination?

[titans1127]

The announcer even exclaimed "YES, all 20 gates opened at the same time!" yet it didn't happen. :D

[Mr_Ed]

Dominated by dirt!

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q517/chtrwd2/cant4_zpsed10507c.png


Seems like grass gates opened about 3/4 second faster than dirt.

[tanner12oz]

So the turf winner really doesn't win? As an owner why would you want to partake in this? Alot of tracks can't get one photo right...imagine a 20 horse blanket finish with 2 photos on 2 tracks...that would be a category 5 disaster

[RaceBookJoe]

Sure looked like one gate opened before the other. Interesting that they use two race callers.

[Stillriledup]

So the turf winner really doesn't win? As an owner why would you want to partake in this? Alot of tracks can't get one photo right...imagine a 20 horse blanket finish with 2 photos on 2 tracks...that would be a category 5 disaster

You win the race on the turf, and get 0 dollars in the purse? Unless they had two separate purses?

[tanner12oz]

From what I heard they had pretty bad gate issues previously with this race..im think that this was a vast improvement over years past and that why it was treated as simultaneus

[Stillriledup]

Sure looked like one gate opened before the other. Interesting that they use two race callers.

It did to me, looked like a full second maybe longer lag time.

I skipped the race because the pools were too small, i should have done an 8 horse tri box 13 thru 20 and just prayed.

[Mr_Ed]

You win the race on the turf, and get 0 dollars in the purse? Unless they had two separate purses?

1 purse for all. In this case the dirt runners.

Turfers consolation was to eat the grass.

[Stillriledup]

1 purse for all. In this case the dirt runners.

Turfers consolation was to eat the grass.

Yikes. Wonder why horsemen would agree to run in a 20 horse field, makes no sense, no way i'd enter into that race with one purse.

[Mr_Ed]

It's a moot point, but..........some kind of illusion?

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q517/chtrwd2/cant9_zps32e2afe5.png

[Stillriledup]

It's a moot point, but..........some kind of illusion?

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q517/chtrwd2/cant9_zps32e2afe5.png

Turf opened before the dirt, it wasn't simultaneous.

Maybe because dirt horses ran 1-2-3-4 they didnt refund the race?

[Mr_Ed]

Gotta admit it was fun watching the Canterbury events today waiting for the harness races to crank up.

:ThmbUp:


Yeah, they had some 'weird' stuff, and owners had to take a hit/backseat to help promote/make the day.



Also, you'll note that every race had more 'show' money than 'place' wagered every race. Your 1 or 2x yearly attendee.

[Tom]

Canterbury Park was the first track to successfully attempt such a race when it debuted during the 2007 Extreme Day.

Didn't they do this at Calder along time ago? Maybe the 80's, or 90's even?
I remember watching it.

[maclr11]

Two separate purses

Races 2 and 3 in the book

The turf race had a purse of 14,500

The dirt race had a purse of 12,500


So Saturday in May still gets the nice purse for his win.


Let's get our facts straight here guys

http://www.equibase.com/premium/eqbHorsemenAreaDownloadAction.cfm?sn=CB-CBY-20140717-20140810D

[Some_One]

R6 and R8 had about 16K for the win pool, R7 had about 30K. The exactor pool was 10K and 14K for R6 &8, about 30K for R8. Bettors love the large fields, no matter what type of race it is.

[castaway01]

Didn't they do this at Calder along time ago? Maybe the 80's, or 90's even?
I remember watching it.

Calder did this for a few years in the mid-2000s.

Here's the 2006 discussion about Calder's Extreme Day (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29497&page=1&pp=15&highlight=extreme+calder)

[duncan04]

Two separate purses

Races 2 and 3 in the book

The turf race had a purse of 14,500

The dirt race had a purse of 12,500


So Saturday in May still gets the nice purse for his win.


Let's get our facts straight here guys

http://www.equibase.com/premium/eqbHorsemenAreaDownloadAction.cfm?sn=CB-CBY-20140717-20140810D

Get the facts straight? But that would prevent some great conspiracy theories. :D

[therussmeister]

So far the charts for these races are screwed up. DRF charts lists the same fractional and final times for both races. They are listed as the 11th & 12th races, and they show no odds for the dirt race.

[cj]

One thing is clear, whoever did the calculations to "bring them together at the wire" was WAY off.

[menifee]

One thing is clear, whoever did the calculations to "bring them together at the wire" was WAY off.

I did not play Canterbury, but if you were smart enough to figure out that they had screwed up in their calculations - all you had to do was box the 8 dirt horses in a tri box and super box and you had an amazing return and day. The .50 tri paid over 2800 and the .10 super paid 1592.

[Stillriledup]

I did not play Canterbury, but if you were smart enough to figure out that they had screwed up in their calculations - all you had to do was box the 8 dirt horses in a tri box and super box and you had an amazing return and day. The .50 tri paid over 2800 and the .10 super paid 1592.

I thought of this last night, but never pulled the trigger, i feel really stupid, that was the first thing i thought of, human error would have one race finish 1-2-3-4.

:bang:

[rgustafson]

One thing is clear, whoever did the calculations to "bring them together at the wire" was WAY off.

You are absolutely right about that Craig. The gate placement on the turf was such that the race was 1 mile and 90 yards. What if they had run the dirt race at 1 mile 70 yards rather than 1 mile? Any way to project how the finish would have been under those circumstances?

[JohnGalt1]

The first year they this, the turf horses were 1-4 running the same distance. It was obvious to me that the turf course was faster and the turf horses were classier. I had the $10+ winner and tri.

To even it out, the next year male maidens would run on the dirt and maiden fillies would run on the turf, but the turf gate did not open. All money was returned to betters, Canterbury management did this :bang:

This year to make it "fair" they ran the turf race 1 mile 90 yards with a dirt mile. I did not attend this year, so I do not know if I would've been able to make a bet.

On their blog they said that next year if they have it, the turf race would probably be run in 1 mile 70.

[Tom]

Calder did this for a few years in the mid-2000s.

Here's the 2006 discussion about Calder's Extreme Day (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29497&page=1&pp=15&highlight=extreme+calder)

Thanks, my sense of place is good, but time has eluded me! :D

[comet52]

Next year throw another gate out there and have 10 ostriches scramble out first. That should really liven things up.

[PhantomOnTour]

Next year they should run the turf race in the other direction, so we have horses coming off the far turn and the clubhouse turn at the same time, and they hit the wire from the right and left.

[Valuist]

Didn't Calder run a dirt race and turf race simultaneously a few years ago? They did a much better job in their distance calculations.

[titans1127]

Didn't Calder run a dirt race and turf race simultaneously a few years ago? They did a much better job in their distance calculations.They did but they were ran as separate races for wagering purposes. The track coined it as "the world's fastest daily double"