THE DEMISE OF RACING???

[NY BRED]

Doubt that will be the issue in Hong Kong.

Blood Horse Quote
The Hong Kong Jockey Club reported a record total handle of HK$101.838 billion for the 2013-14 season, which concluded July 6.
:eek: :eek: :eek:
Read more on BloodHorse.com: http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/86035/hong-kong-season-ends-with-handle-

[AndyC]

Doubt that will be the issue in Hong Kong.

Blood Horse Quote
The Hong Kong Jockey Club reported a record total handle of HK$101.838 billion for the 2013-14 season, which concluded July 6.
:eek: :eek: :eek:
Read more on BloodHorse.com: http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/86035/hong-kong-season-ends-with-handle-

You could have squirrel or hamster races in Hong Kong and they would report a record handle. Gambling is cultural.

[RaceBookJoe]

As someone who has never gotten into racing from Hong Kong, what are the pp's like and where do you get them? After all these years you would think I would have looked into HK, just never got around to it...thanks to anyone who can give insight.

[alydar]

You could have squirrel or hamster races in Hong Kong and they would report a record handle. Gambling is cultural.

I am afraid there is more to than just " The Chinese like to gamble."

They run a first class operation. Did you read the article? Handle has grown from 60 billion HKD in 2005-2006 to 100 billion HKD for the fiscal year just ended.

That kind of growth didn't just come from mainland Chinese tourists.

[lamboguy]

I am afraid there is more to than just " The Chinese like to gamble."

They run a first class operation. Did you read the article? Handle has grown from 60 billion HKD in 2005-2006 to 100 billion HKD for the fiscal year just ended.

That kind of growth didn't just come from mainland Chinese tourists.i couldn't agree more. if racing was run the same way in this country, the handle here would be even more than over there.

[cj's dad]

i couldn't agree more. if racing was run the same way in this country, the handle here would be even more than over there.

This is not meant to be sarcastic. How so ? I am really curious what they do so differently than here in the states.

[Tom]

They don't have 35 tracks running and only run two days a week.
That helps.

[tanner12oz]

I am afraid there is more to than just " The Chinese like to gamble."

They run a first class operation. Did you read the article? Handle has grown from 60 billion HKD in 2005-2006 to 100 billion HKD for the fiscal year just ended.

That kind of growth didn't just come from mainland Chinese tourists.

the product isn't diluted

[whodoyoulike]

As someone who has never gotten into racing from Hong Kong, what are the pp's like and where do you get them? After all these years you would think I would have looked into HK, just never got around to it...thanks to anyone who can give insight.

Cashmachine was kind enough to provide links because I asked the same question a couple months ago.

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=114009&page=2&pp=15

See posts #17 and #18. When you click the link in #18 click Sectional Time & Position.

Good luck.

[RaceBookJoe]

Cashmachine was kind enough to provide links because I asked the same question a couple months ago.

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=114009&page=2&pp=15

See posts #17 and #18. When you click the link in #18 click Sectional Time & Position.

Good luck.

Thank you and to Cashmachine !!!!

[AndyC]

I am afraid there is more to than just " The Chinese like to gamble."

They run a first class operation. Did you read the article? Handle has grown from 60 billion HKD in 2005-2006 to 100 billion HKD for the fiscal year just ended.

That kind of growth didn't just come from mainland Chinese tourists.


By all indications, the HKJC runs a first class operation. But, yes, the Chinese like to gamble. The money bet on soccer games dwarfs the NFL action in Las Vegas. There are substantial increases in all forms of gambling. If it were just horse racing then that would be a completely different story.

[AndyC]

They don't have 35 tracks running and only run two days a week.
That helps.

Of course you are talking about an area of roughly 35 square miles. Really hard to compare just because of the geography, population density and culture.

[alydar]

Of course you are talking about an area of roughly 35 square miles. Really hard to compare just because of the geography, population density and culture.

I agree that comparisons can be misleading due to some of the reasons you have stated. However, there are things US tracks could learn from their operation. Dismissing their success to cultural and geographic differences alone just dose not tell the whole story.

[lamboguy]

This is not meant to be sarcastic. How so ? I am really curious what they do so differently than here in the states.its actually pretty simple, they give the bettors what they want. very rigid rules and regulations, owning horses there is a an honor. any injury small or large is a public matter. if you get caught using drugs you go to jail. the betting pools are strictly policed at all times to make sure that there is no one getting in after the start of the race.

owner's can only own 2 horses, trainers are limited in the amount of horses that they can train as well. they have a very common sense approach to the sport.

[thespaah]

The Japan Racing Assn's rules read like War and Peace..You screw around there and it's curtains.
That country also sees horse players betting with both fists.
I have a friend whop went to Tokyo and one other city for business. The President of the company, A Japanese of course, took the lot of them to the track for an evening of entertainment.
My friend told me he expected what he was used to in Chicago( Hawthorne, etc) ,,,He said the place was like a palace.

[cutchemist42]

its actually pretty simple, they give the bettors what they want. very rigid rules and regulations, owning horses there is a an honor. any injury small or large is a public matter. if you get caught using drugs you go to jail. the betting pools are strictly policed at all times to make sure that there is no one getting in after the start of the race.

owner's can only own 2 horses, trainers are limited in the amount of horses that they can train as well. they have a very common sense approach to the sport.

Wow, that sounds like the exact opposite of what we run over here.

[PatCummings]

The comparisons of HK to anywhere else in the world are near impossible, but I completely agree that some elements of everything there could be copied to America. Not getting into those specifically, but here's a basic primer on HK racing.

- every replay is available on their website - pan shot, head-on (what they call patrol), and gallop-out (what they call pass-through).

- all past performances are free and posted on their website, lifetime form for each horse is there too (they are also working with US ADWs, TVG in particular, to offer a US-like past performance product, I prefer the original ones, though).

- videos of barrier trials, or practice races/workouts, are available on their website

- various horse health-related issues for each horse are available on their website

- they have a comprehensive preview show, called Racing to Win, available online for each race meeting (English commentators), which incorporates gallops, works, barrier trials, etc.

The HKJC has seen a near 100% increase in handle over the last decade. It coincided with a rebate scheme put in place, by the club. One of the main goals of the scheme was to bring black market betting off the streets and into legal fold. As of May, the HKJC estimated that 83.9% of every betting dollar was returned to bettors. It has been said in the past that the black market betting on HK racing was roughly equal to the legitimate tote market. Anecdotal, though.

The HKJC also makes massive contributions to local charities - in many ways, when the average punter loses, they win too, through this. Last season, the amount donated to local charities was roughly US$250 million. Based on the revenue that goes to the government, the HKJC is the single largest taxpayer in HK (again, a classic example why you really can't compare them to anyone else).

They run about 800 races per year, and have the highest average field sizes in the world. No horses are bred there, all are imported. Want to buy a horse, you have to be a member of the Jockey Club (with a steep annual fee, of which memberships are very limited), and then you have the right to purchase a horse. You are limited in how many you own. There are only a limited number of allowable imports per year, too.

It is an incredibly controlled jurisdiction, but it is closely woven to the fabric of life. The management is superb. Attention to detail is amazing. They have almost 6,000 full time employees.

Racing is incredibly easy to understand - almost every race is a handicap - horses have a numerical rating, races are run for horses within a certain rating level, and handicapped based on that rating (yes, with weights, typically 135 down to about 110). To me, this makes getting a grasp on a race straightforward. No claimers, no starters.

[WP1981]

The comparisons of HK to anywhere else in the world are near impossible, but I completely agree that some elements of everything there could be copied to America. Not getting into those specifically, but here's a basic primer on HK racing.

- every replay is available on their website - pan shot, head-on (what they call patrol), and gallop-out (what they call pass-through).

- all past performances are free and posted on their website, lifetime form for each horse is there too (they are also working with US ADWs, TVG in particular, to offer a US-like past performance product, I prefer the original ones, though).

- videos of barrier trials, or practice races/workouts, are available on their website

- various horse health-related issues for each horse are available on their website

- they have a comprehensive preview show, called Racing to Win, available online for each race meeting (English commentators), which incorporates gallops, works, barrier trials, etc.

The HKJC has seen a near 100% increase in handle over the last decade. It coincided with a rebate scheme put in place, by the club. One of the main goals of the scheme was to bring black market betting off the streets and into legal fold. As of May, the HKJC estimated that 83.9% of every betting dollar was returned to bettors. It has been said in the past that the black market betting on HK racing was roughly equal to the legitimate tote market. Anecdotal, though.

The HKJC also makes massive contributions to local charities - in many ways, when the average punter loses, they win too, through this. Last season, the amount donated to local charities was roughly US$250 million. Based on the revenue that goes to the government, the HKJC is the single largest taxpayer in HK (again, a classic example why you really can't compare them to anyone else).

They run about 800 races per year, and have the highest average field sizes in the world. No horses are bred there, all are imported. Want to buy a horse, you have to be a member of the Jockey Club (with a steep annual fee, of which memberships are very limited), and then you have the right to purchase a horse. You are limited in how many you own. There are only a limited number of allowable imports per year, too.

It is an incredibly controlled jurisdiction, but it is closely woven to the fabric of life. The management is superb. Attention to detail is amazing. They have almost 6,000 full time employees.

Racing is incredibly easy to understand - almost every race is a handicap - horses have a numerical rating, races are run for horses within a certain rating level, and handicapped based on that rating (yes, with weights, typically 135 down to about 110). To me, this makes getting a grasp on a race straightforward. No claimers, no starters.

Probably the best write up I have ever read.

Well done, Pat. I want to go there now.

[traynor]

I think anyone who is serious about horse racing owes it to himself or herself to do a bit of exploring--especially the Asia-Pacific racing circuit. Australia is okay, but the Hong Kong circuit and Japan circuit are about as good as it gets. Especially for those more jaded among us who also enjoy blackjack and baccarat. Sha Tin by day and Macau by night is a VERY nice life.

[Dave Schwartz]

They don't have 35 tracks running and only run two days a week.

Exactly.

Think of the $101b as around $14b USD. If memory serves HK runs 35 weeks x 2 cards per week, so this is effectively $14b USD in 70 cards!

70 cards is about 1 single Saturday in the US during the summer months.

So, HK's handle would be like ALL of the US handle coming down on a single Saturday!



A Story About Japan Racing
In 2002 I was in Japan consulting for a "new group." Coincidently, it was at this time of the year and I actually had an opportunity to attend the World Cup finals!

One Saturday morning my host (a westerner) asked me if I wanted to watch him play. Of course I said "Yes."

First, he asked me if I had ever seen 3/4 of a million dollars in cash before. He took out an Adidas bag that was about 30" x 12" x 12". It was about 40% full. (The money was in Yen.)

Then he asked me if I had ever been to a "betting shop." I laughed and said, "I am from Nevada, so, yes, I have seen a few 'betting shops.'" In my mind I held a picture of a hole-in-the-wall with about 8 ticket writers. LOL - No idea why, but I pictured the old Hollywood Racebook in Las Vegas.

We take a train into town and head to the "WINS." Imagine my surprise when it turns out that the "betting shop" is an 8-story building with 125 ticket writers per floor!

We get there and the first order of business is for him to collect almost $2m from previous bets. (It barely fit into the bag, BTW.)

The 4th floor of the WINS is for "big" players. On that floor, each bettor has his own computer and his own private ticket writer that sits across from him. The bets are typically made programatically by the bettor. If he runs into a problem keying a wager, he simply tells his private ticket writer what to do and he writes the ticket for him.

Get this: On a typical day my guy wagers around $1m USD. He is not a big enough bettor to qualify to bet on the 4th floor!

[nearco]

Exactly.

Think of the $101b as around $14b USD. If memory serves HK runs 35 weeks x 2 cards per week, so this is effectively $14b USD in 70 cards!

70 cards is about 1 single Saturday in the US during the summer months.

So, HK's handle would be like ALL of the US handle coming down on a single Saturday!



A Story About Japan Racing
In 2002 I was in Japan consulting for a "new group." Coincidently, it was at this time of the year and I actually had an opportunity to attend the World Cup finals!

One Saturday morning my host (a westerner) asked me if I wanted to watch him play. Of course I said "Yes."

First, he asked me if I had ever seen 3/4 of a million dollars in cash before. He took out an Adidas bag that was about 30" x 12" x 12". It was about 40% full. (The money was in Yen.)

Then he asked me if I had ever been to a "betting shop." I laughed and said, "I am from Nevada, so, yes, I have seen a few 'betting shops.'" In my mind I held a picture of a hole-in-the-wall with about 8 ticket writers. LOL - No idea why, but I pictured the old Hollywood Racebook in Las Vegas.

We take a train into town and head to the "WINS." Imagine my surprise when it turns out that the "betting shop" is an 8-story building with 125 ticket writers per floor!

We get there and the first order of business is for him to collect almost $2m from previous bets. (It barely fit into the bag, BTW.)

The 4th floor of the WINS is for "big" players. On that floor, each bettor has his own computer and his own private ticket writer that sits across from him. The bets are typically made programatically by the bettor. If he runs into a problem keying a wager, he simply tells his private ticket writer what to do and he writes the ticket for him.

Get this: On a typical day my guy wagers around $1m USD. He is not a big enough bettor to qualify to bet on the 4th floor!

Guy takes a train into town with $750k in cash in an Adidas bag?
Guy's got balls.

[NY BRED]

[QUOTE=PatCummings]The comparisons of HK to anywhere else in the world are near impossible, but I completely agree that some elements of everything there could be copied to America

We discussed in a separate agenda tearing down tracks and modernizing
the facilities to draw a younger fan base that has drifted to casinos
or simply is uninterested in racing. Clearly, the physical plant is only
one component and not the sole answer to increase revenue
and attendance at the U S tracks.

HK racing has simply taken a product, no different than the auto and electronic industry and made it incredibly better and user friendly
to draw this fan base and revenue which is light years better
than racing in America.

Us track management should reconsider their agendas and attempt
to mirror the major components mentioned in Pat's advice in an
attempt to regain their old customers and gain new ones.

[pandy]

This is not meant to be sarcastic. How so ? I am really curious what they do so differently than here in the states.


Hong Kong and the JRA (Japan Racing Association) both have superior racing. No lasix, stringent drug policies, world class state of the art training facilities, a lot of turf races, more stamina races like routes and turf races than sprints (which in my opinion helps horses stay sounder because sprints are harder on horses), vastly less breakdowns than we have here, the horses are much sounder and durable. Workouts are electronically recorded and precisely accurate, no games allowed. I could go on and on, but these racing jurisdictions are the reference point for top quality racing.

[badcompany]

The comparisons of HK to anywhere else in the world are near impossible, but I completely agree that some elements of everything there could be copied to America. Not getting into those specifically, but here's a basic primer on HK racing.

- every replay is available on their website - pan shot, head-on (what they call patrol), and gallop-out (what they call pass-through).

- all past performances are free and posted on their website, lifetime form for each horse is there too (they are also working with US ADWs, TVG in particular, to offer a US-like past performance product, I prefer the original ones, though).

- videos of barrier trials, or practice races/workouts, are available on their website

- various horse health-related issues for each horse are available on their website

- they have a comprehensive preview show, called Racing to Win, available online for each race meeting (English commentators), which incorporates gallops, works, barrier trials, etc.

The HKJC has seen a near 100% increase in handle over the last decade. It coincided with a rebate scheme put in place, by the club. One of the main goals of the scheme was to bring black market betting off the streets and into legal fold. As of May, the HKJC estimated that 83.9% of every betting dollar was returned to bettors. It has been said in the past that the black market betting on HK racing was roughly equal to the legitimate tote market. Anecdotal, though.

The HKJC also makes massive contributions to local charities - in many ways, when the average punter loses, they win too, through this. Last season, the amount donated to local charities was roughly US$250 million. Based on the revenue that goes to the government, the HKJC is the single largest taxpayer in HK (again, a classic example why you really can't compare them to anyone else).

They run about 800 races per year, and have the highest average field sizes in the world. No horses are bred there, all are imported. Want to buy a horse, you have to be a member of the Jockey Club (with a steep annual fee, of which memberships are very limited), and then you have the right to purchase a horse. You are limited in how many you own. There are only a limited number of allowable imports per year, too.

It is an incredibly controlled jurisdiction, but it is closely woven to the fabric of life. The management is superb. Attention to detail is amazing. They have almost 6,000 full time employees.


Great stuff, Pat.

It sounds like Horseracing is an event sport over there. Hard to imagine that model working here, as the sport would have to compete with baseball, football, basketball, hockey, golf, Nascar etc.

[traynor]

In regard to the cultural propensity for gambling:

" American teenagers rank below average when it comes to understanding the value of money -- while Chinese kids are the best."
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/09/business/understanding-value-of-money/index.html?hpt=hp_t4

The difference may be that in the US, bettors are "playing a game." In Hong Kong, bettors may be in the business of betting--an intense competition to gain a bigger share of limited resources. Perhaps they have not been infected with that nonsensical comment, "It doesn't matter whether you win or lose. The important thing is how you play the game."

Again, if that seems obscure, it is because one has not spent much time at Sha Tin. Doing so will definitely change one's opinion about whether or not he or she is only "playing a game."

[PatCummings]

Probably the best write up I have ever read.

Well done, Pat. I want to go there now.

I would argue that some of the most fun you can have at the races anywhere in the world is a Wednesday night in the beer garden at Happy Valley. It's an incredible experience I cannot recommend enough.

[TheEdge07]

There was a member on this forum who passed away a couple of years ago he was a pro moved to HK and made millions (his name skips my mind)..A article was written about him and his software..
Does anyone know his name?

[Seabiscuit@AR]

Alan Woods (Entropy was his name on this forum)

[TheEdge07]

Alan Woods (Entropy was his name on this forum)

Yes thank you...article wriiten on Mr.Woods was amazing..anyone has the link?

[TheEdge07]

William Benter also a crushed Hong Kong with his software..At one considered the worlds wealthiest gambler

[RXB]

How about if we compare Australia and USA/Canada? Much more alike in terms of land mass, culture, a significant number of racetracks spread across a large country, etc.

Australia (population 23 million) handles about as much on thoroughbred racing as the USA (population over 300 million). Canada (population 35 million) is a mere blip in horse racing compared to Australia. I'm fairly sure that the cultural inclination to gamble isn't 12-15 multiples stronger in Australia than in North America.

So what do Australia and Hong Kong have more in common? They don't race on dirt. They are much stricter regarding race day medication as well as punishment for illegal drug usage. They don't do the claiming thing at all in HK and rarely in Australia.

[whodoyoulike]

[QUOTE=PatCummings]... Us track management should reconsider their agendas and attempt
to mirror the major components mentioned in Pat's advice in an
attempt to regain their old customers and gain new ones.

Do you think this is possible with 50 +/- fiefdoms and 30 +/- Racing Commissions here versus looks like 1 or 2 in HK?

There was a post about a pissed off owner suggesting a national governing board for racing. Someone should evaluate the pros and cons of this proposal.

[nearco]

How about if we compare Australia and USA/Canada? Much more alike in terms of land mass, culture, a significant number of racetracks spread across a large country, etc.

Australia (population 23 million) handles about as much on thoroughbred racing as the USA (population over 300 million). Canada (population 35 million) is a mere blip in horse racing compared to Australia. I'm fairly sure that the cultural inclination to gamble isn't 12-15 multiples stronger in Australia than in North America.



Yes it is. Aussies, like the Irish, and to a degree the British, would bet on ants climbing up a wall.
The US has a very strong undercurrent of "Gambling is evil" that prevades the culture. There are whole states where you can't gamble, and even in states where you can it is super restricted.
Australia never had the fundie/puritan strain to deal with. Gambling is just an every day normal thing over there.

[RXB]

Yes it is. Aussies, like the Irish, and to a degree the British, would bet on ants climbing up a wall.
The US has a very strong undercurrent of "Gambling is evil" that prevades the culture. There are whole states where you can't gamble, and even in states where you can it is super restricted.
Australia never had the fundie/puritan strain to deal with. Gambling is just an every day normal thing over there.

Gambling losses per adult in Australia was estimated at $1288 vs. $568 in Canada. The United States was just under $400. Large differences but not anywhere close to the massive gaps in per capita wagering on horse racing.

[NY BRED]

[QUOTE=whodoyoulike][QUOTE=NY BRED]

Do you think this is possible with 50 +/- fiefdoms and 30 +/- Racing Commissions here versus looks like 1 or 2 in HK?


Hell no, but I believe there are connected parties on this site who could
mention these thoughts to the their respective track
administrators, which might turn some heads.

While some people would argue the HK public love to gamble,
it would be interesting to compare their casino revenue vs
the U.S Casino revenue and percentage difference for both
countries against racing revenue.

I really believe(bring on the rants) the American public flock to
the casinos as they believe they have no shot winning at the track due
to illegal medication issues, high takeout, track admission fees and
the lack of information on handicapping which tracks should
offer to make this game fan friendly.

I won't delve into building new tracks, but I would recommend
tracks consider night racing which could draw more fans
especially on week days. The average betting and attendance at
AQU during late fall could make an interesting experiment to bring
a casino type experience to newbies.


Many casino offer "lessons"/practice sessions during early morning
hours, why not follow their lead?


I realize these thoughts have been discussed many times on this
forum, just venting after reading about the Success of HK racing,

[rastajenk]

Do you really think Americans would flock back to live racing and simulcasting venues if all these things were copied, adopted, or adapted?

I don't. I believe there would be considerable expense and little, if any, uptick in business, especially if all this Hong Kong-style wealth of information and integrity made things even more difficult for a new fan to become casual, or a casual one to become regular. With casino companies watching every penny spent on the racing side of their biz, this Utopian version will not come to pass in this country in our lifetimes.

I also believe that in our culture it could even be counterproductive, that the effect of some progressive march backwards to a glorious past (an illogical notion, seems to me) could take some of the fun out of it, and end up hastening the decline. We enjoy thousands of different trainers with thousands of different training practices for thousands of different owners, each with his or her own business plan for participation in this sport. It is American and egalitarian. Limiting access and control of one's property, raising the cost of participation, anything that reduces participation levels is heading the wrong way. American culture is constantly changing, and racing will never be more than a niche thing again. But I'd rather see it maintained for as long as possible than see it damaged further by sincere but misguided Hong Kong-style progressives.

[castaway01]

[QUOTE=whodoyoulike][QUOTE=NY BRED]

Do you think this is possible with 50 +/- fiefdoms and 30 +/- Racing Commissions here versus looks like 1 or 2 in HK?


Hell no, but I believe there are connected parties on this site who could
mention these thoughts to the their respective track
administrators, which might turn some heads.

While some people would argue the HK public love to gamble,
it would be interesting to compare their casino revenue vs
the U.S Casino revenue and percentage difference for both
countries against racing revenue.

I really believe(bring on the rants) the American public flock to
the casinos as they believe they have no shot winning at the track due
to illegal medication issues, high takeout, track admission fees and
the lack of information on handicapping which tracks should
offer to make this game fan friendly.

I won't delve into building new tracks, but I would recommend
tracks consider night racing which could draw more fans
especially on week days. The average betting and attendance at
AQU during late fall could make an interesting experiment to bring
a casino type experience to newbies.


Many casino offer "lessons"/practice sessions during early morning
hours, why not follow their lead?


I realize these thoughts have been discussed many times on this
forum, just venting after reading about the Success of HK racing,

Hong Kong racing is run by a group that controls all horse wagering and sports gambling in the country. Do you think if we gave a single organization here financial control of all horse and sports gambling in the country that it could make some money? You can't compare apples and baseballs.

I can't agree with some of your ideas. For example, night racing as a solution? You're from Jersey! We had plenty of night racing. Garden State, gone. Atlantic City, just about gone. Meadowlands for thoroughbreds, just about gone. Night racing was tried and failed.

Horse racing is failing for many reasons, but mostly that casino wagering is now convenient and has always been simpler. Takeout? OF COURSE it would be better for all of us, the more serious players, if takeout was slashed in half. However, the state and national lotteries are booming with a 50% takeout. Most people believe that have no shot at winning (in the long run) at a casino, lottery, OR racetrack, but they go to casinos and play lotteries because they are easy and on every corner. They're a simple, easy distraction from life. And if there are too many casinos in an area, they fail too, just like the ones in Atlantic City are doing now (in the past month, Showboat and Revel).

[lamboguy]

maybe in this country people trust casino's and lottery's more than they do horse racing. whenever there have been impropriety's that have gone on in lottery's and casino's they came out in the open and safeguards were put on so that the customer's trust the game. that does not happen in racing.

the guys running the racing in our country are complete fools for not giving the customer what they want. all the customer wants is a fair shot. they will play horse racing before lottery's and casino's if they thought the game was on the level. the people going to the races in Hong Kong think the game is on the up and up. they are doing $180 million a night in business there for 2014, they expect to be at $300 million by 2017 and far beyond that in the decade of 2020.

we have more land and more tracks on our continent, that only means there is more room for growth of the industry here. not only that, the competition to horse racing is lottery's and casino's, those are 2 non productive business's. for horse racing to survive you have to constantly produce more horses. you need more food to feed the horses. the amount of jobs created from horse racing is 10 times the amount that you get in lottery's.

when you look at the people that gave up playing horses you will find that they went to the lottery because they don't trust horse racing any longer.

[traynor]

I don't think the public's perception of the relative honesty or dishonesty of racing compared to casinos is the issue at all. It is the near impossible chance of the average bettor to make a profit that is the issue. The result of a few hours of wagering in a casino is as likely to be a plus as a minus, and if it is a minus, it is likely to be relatively small. The result of a few hours of wagering at a racetrack is almost guaranteed to be a minus, and a substantial one at that.

In psychology, it is called "learned helplessness." Enough losing bets, and all interest in wagering at that type of venue is gone. At racetracks, the relative probability of a sufficiently long string of races to extingusish any desire to continue wagering is high. In a casino, there may be overall losses, but there are sufficient wins to prevent extinction of the behavior.

New bettors avoid racetracks because they dislike losing all (or most) of their wagers. It doesn't take more than a day or two at the track to turn a prospective horse bettor into an avid casino bettor.

[AndyC]

I really believe(bring on the rants) the American public flock to
the casinos as they believe they have no shot winning at the track due
to illegal medication issues, high takeout, track admission fees and
the lack of information on handicapping which tracks should
offer to make this game fan friendly.

I really don't think that many people put as much mental energy into their decisions as you believe.

Betting on horses takes a huge personal time investment just to become an average bettor. It is a complicated game. With casinos people can still have delusions of winning big without spending years learning how to play.

[affirmedny]

Yes thank you...article wriiten on Mr.Woods was amazing..anyone has the link?


http://www.cigaraficionado.com/webfeatures/show/id/Gambling-The-Hundred-and-Fifty-Million-Dollar-Man_8366/print/Y

[Redboard]

New bettors avoid racetracks because they dislike losing all (or most) of their wagers. It doesn't take more than a day or two at the track to turn a prospective horse bettor into an avid casino bettor.

Very true, someone who goes to a track for the first time is most likely to come back with nothing. I’ve only played slot machines a handful of times in my life. I recently saw a TV piece about them and apparently many of them are “rigged” not to completely bankrupt the player. So if I’m sitting at a bar with a slot machine in front of me if I put in $20 and at the end of an hour I have $3 left, I don’t feel like I’m a total loser. In horseracing, you either win or lose - you get $2.20 back (minimum) on your $2 bet or you lose the whole thing. (That is, unless you get ADW rebates which is another topic).

[PatCummings]

Checking back on this topic relative to a few comments made above re: Hong Kong. Outside of their biggest racedays, the HKJC does almost no marketing to get people to Sha Tin. All of their mainstream marketing is based around Happy Valley. It's the equivalent of spending more money to say "go to Saratoga" compared to "go to Aqueduct." Racing at Happy Valley is as electric as you can experience, while Sha Tin is very nice, but a much more sterile environment.

There seems to be way too much absolutism in comments that circulate about the bad state of racing and or the ways to save it. The "if we don't do X, Y, and Z, then it's all over." Or, "the way to get new fans is to do A, B, C." I think we need to learn to live and operate more in the grey as opposed to black and white. Every situation is, more or less, different given varying market conditions, etc.

That said, it would be understandable for US operators to look at the single most successful racing jurisdiction in the world and develop some scale-able actions that could capitalize on areas of similarity.

[Seabiscuit@AR]

Japan racing is better than HK racing but the Japanese like to keep their racing to themselves mostly so you hear less about it

Hong Kong racing does have a weakness in that it is not self sufficient. It relies on the other racing countries round the world to supply it with horses, jockeys, trainers and officials like stewards. So when all the other racing countries go bust eventually Hong Kong will too