Gatewood (Mtn, Race 5, July 8) by about 100 lengths.

[Stillriledup]

This has to be the greatest performance in the history of thoroughbred racing by a 5k claimer.

Onward and upward.

[tanner12oz]

Speed and fade last out finishing dead last

Peter berry said on twitter the clearest winner in 25,000 races he's called...20 plus lengths and could have been 40

[Stillriledup]

It was incredible, it was essentially a 40 length win, you rarely see that at any track, ever.

[Stillriledup]

Speed and fade last out finishing dead last

Peter berry said on twitter the clearest winner in 25,000 races he's called...20 plus lengths and could have been 40

PB on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/peterberry57

[Some_One]

So buzzer or drugs?

[Stillriledup]

So buzzer or drugs?

Maybe he's just a pretty good horse and the light went on. Maybe it was mental and the horse always had the talent and was finally able to show it. He's by Tiz Wonderful who is a son of Tiznow who was a very freaky talented horse, but a head case at times, maybe this horse just decided tonight was the night to freak out, maybe he was always this good and put it all together.

[tanner12oz]

Anyone pick him up for the tag?

[Peter Berry]

Anyone pick him up for the tag?
No, he wasn't claimed.

[WoxFan]

I loved the comment "Gatewood, looking like Germany vs Brazil today.."

[mountainman]

it was essentially a 40 length win,

No. It wasn't. With all respect, sir, that's complete and utter nonsense.

[Stillriledup]

No. It wasn't. With all respect, sir, that's complete and utter nonsense.

Hmmmm, i clocked him at 40 to the good...maybe my clock is broken. :D

[mountainman]

Hmmmm, i clocked him at 40 to the good...maybe my clock is broken. :D

Here's a thought on how Gatewood might have doubled that 21 L margin: instead of 11 and change to the six-call..he could have hit it in 1:07 (and still, of course, duplicated his actual come-home fraction)..or, how about this? Since there was soooooo much left in the tank late, he could have run the last 70 yards in 4/5 of a second (instead of his actual 4.91). Or how about a first-half in 42?? Or opening quarter in 19 and change? Since the horse could have run that much faster, I'll remember to add 40 points to whatever beyer he is assigned..and in that manner get a "true" gauge of his ability.

Here is a novel thought for you: Had Gatewood been urged, or allowed, to set faster splits, his final time would have been SLOWER, not quicker. And reserve energy through the stretch is always less that it appears when horses romp to wide-margin wins. Some even LIKE running against the bit, or under a snug hold. When a horse is indeed full of run, such restraint only ENCOURAGES them to go faster. Rerun Tuesday's race, throw gatewood's head away at about the 3/16 pole, let the jock start beating him, and see how fast all that reserve energy and burning desire evaporate.

A front-running t-bred will NEVER run faster than when it is far in front and appears to be coasting. They are mentally fragile creatures that thrive on confidence and require rationing.

[Stillriledup]

Here's a thought on how Gatewood might have doubled that 21 L margin: instead of 11 and change to the six-call..he could have hit it in 1:07 (and still, of course, duplicated his actual come-home fraction)..or, how about this? Since there was soooooo much left in the tank late, he could have run the last 70 yards in 4/5 of a second (instead of his actual 4.91). Or how about a first-half in 42?? Or opening quarter in 19 and change? Since the horse could have run that much faster, I'll remember to add 40 points to whatever beyer he is assigned..and in that manner get a "true" gauge of his ability.

Here is a novel thought for you: Had Gatewood been urged, or allowed, to set faster splits, his final time would have been SLOWER, not quicker. And reserve energy through the stretch is always less that it appears when horses romp to wide-margin wins. Some even LIKE running against the bit, or under a snug hold. When a horse is indeed full of run, such restraint only ENCOURAGES them to go faster. Rerun Tuesday's race, throw gatewood's head away at about the 3/16 pole, let the jock start beating him, and see how fast all that reserve energy and burning desire evaporate.

A front-running t-bred will NEVER run faster than when it is far in front and appears to be coasting. They are mentally fragile creatures that thrive on confidence and require rationing.

PB said he could have won by a lot more. He also said "a mile in front". Last i checked, a mile was 5,280 feet which is considerably longer than 40 lengths.

Don't feel bad, you should be tickled that a horse this good is racing at Mountaineer, he's a star and there are no two ways about it. ;)

[Overlay]

The chart put him ahead by 26 at the stretch call.

http://www.equibase.com/static/chart/pdf/MNR070814USA.pdf

[Stillriledup]

The chart put him ahead by 26 at the stretch call.

http://www.equibase.com/static/chart/pdf/MNR070814USA.pdf

He was absolutely strangled the entire lane, even if the guy just hand rode him, even if it was a mild hand ride with no whip and he kept this guy on his task, he would have won by close to 40.

He's not Secretariat, but he's pretty close. :D

Oh, maybe not....but, you stlll rarely see margins of victory this large with horses just on idle the entire stretch.

[mountainman]

he's a star and there are no two ways about it. ;)

You're kidding, right? I've seen some sharp posts from you, so you can't possibly be serious.

Dude, I'm proud that warriors like Stop Hunting, Samurai Prince, John's Burger, Russell Road, and Miracle in May compete here. And of our all-stakes cards on wv derby day. And that we got Mine that Bird. And of Fabulous Strike's supernatural beyers. And I'm amazed that Flip Flop and Ramblin Mike still use signature styles to pad unreal win-totals.

But, please, let's be clear here..You want me to speak in tongues about some chronic quitter that bullied a bad field of non-life nickels????

Again, you CAN'T be serious.

[Stillriledup]

You're kidding, right? I've seen some sharp posts from you, so you can't possibly be serious.

Dude, I'm proud that warriors like Stop Hunting, Samurai Prince, John's Burger, Russell Road, and Miracle in May compete here. And of our all-stakes cards on wv derby day. And that we got Mine that Bird. And of Fabulous Strike's supernatural beyers. And I'm amazed that Flip Flop and Ramblin Mike still use signature styles to pad unreal win-totals.

But, please, let's be clear here..You want me to speak in tongues about some chronic quitter that bullied a bad field of non-life nickels????

Again, you CAN'T be serious.

First of all, you can't ever post the words "you cant be serious" without me posting a link of THIS video. :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekQ_Ja02gTY

As far as him being a "chronic quitter" all i know is he looked like a star to me, much more worthy than a 5k claimer, be interesting to see where he shows up next.

Lastly, when he runs again, i'd appreciate you talking about the "clown" on the message board who thought he would have won by 40 had he been urged, i'll be waiting to hear your commentary next time this guy runs. :D

[mountainman]

First of all, you can't ever post the words "you cant be serious" without me posting a link of THIS video. :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekQ_Ja02gTY

As far as him being a "chronic quitter" all i know is he looked like a star to me, much more worthy than a 5k claimer, be interesting to see where he shows up next.

Lastly, when he runs again, i'd appreciate you talking about the "clown" on the message board who thought he would have won by 40 had he been urged, i'll be waiting to hear your commentary next time this guy runs. :D

lol....I still like you. And I surrender. Gatewood is the greatest of all time. And should he win back, especially on the raise, it will prove he could have won by 75 lengths on Tuesday. Happy now?

[Stillriledup]

lol....I still like you. And I surrender. Gatewood is the greatest of all time. And should he win back, especially on the raise, it will prove he could have won by 75 lengths on Tuesday. Happy now?

Yes, im happy, i like you too, i'm a fan and appreciate all your hard work that you share with us on the broadcast.

He seems like a finicky horse, he could get pressed in a higher class and quit like he's done in the past, but for one shining moment, he was all by himself, moving like a tremendous machine and they can't ever take that away from him. :D

[Maximillion]

For me,the ones that can win easily, by a measured length or two are the ones that can run much faster when asked....not the romping winners.

[Peter Berry]

One thing that cannot be denied: The Mountaineer Gatewood is now almost as famous as the European Gatewood, a Royal Ascot winner.

For the record, the local Gatewood is no Rapid Redux; $10,000 might be his level. I had his margin reduced by about five lengths in the last furlong while being strangled. Give him back that five, and add another five were he just allowed to run (making the "magical" 31) and then the unknown if he'd been asked and it easily could have been 40, such was his lack of opposition. To me, he looked like a horse who really wanted to sprint to the wire.

Having said that, he figures to be a huge underlay next start if placed sensibly. He's probably just a decent horse who struck a really bad field.

[mountainman]

Gatewood's immediate future is more a function of pace than class. One mercurial performance hardly lends itself to precise classification.

[Peter Berry]

Gatewood's immediate future is more a function of pace than class. One mercurial performance hardly lends itself to precise classification.
I wouldn't rate it a mercurial performance, more a dominant performance against very slow opposition. But he DID become an instant Mountaineer legend and his next race will draw solid ratings.

[mountainman]

I wouldn't rate it a mercurial performance, more a dominant performance against very slow opposition. But he DID become an instant Mountaineer legend and his next race will draw solid ratings.
Slow opposition doesn't engender that kind of performance. Or we'd see such margins everyday. The horse ran fast. But to arbitrarily assign him 20 more lengths is a mistake for more reasons than I can address here.

[Peter Berry]

He probably could have won by 50.

[Stillriledup]

He probably could have won by 50.
:lol:

He's a legend, i'm helping the "Steam" on his tale. If you or Mark hurry, you can secure the book or movie rights!!!

[mountainman]

I had his margin reduced by about five lengths in the last furlong while being strangled. Give him back that five, and add another five were he just allowed to run (making the "magical" 31) and then the unknown if he'd been asked and it easily could have been 40

So the horse could have reached the stretch call at LEAST 9 lengths faster and STILL had that mythical 10 lengths in reserve for the drive? Rock on, Pete. And have a good night.

[Peter Berry]

Yes. No doubt at all in my mind.

This truly was a performance that had to be seen in the flesh, not on a monitor, to fully appreciate what was happening. In this rare instance, the boundaries of time and pace and class were meaningless. You had to see the whole picture as it unfolded. This could not be put into a box. This was a horse possessed.

[davew]

First of all, you can't ever post the words "you cant be serious" without me posting a link of THIS video. :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekQ_Ja02gTY

As far as him being a "chronic quitter" all i know is he looked like a star to me, much more worthy than a 5k claimer, be interesting to see where he shows up next.

Lastly, when he runs again, i'd appreciate you talking about the "clown" on the message board who thought he would have won by 40 had he been urged, i'll be waiting to hear your commentary next time this guy runs. :D

I am going to award a point against you mr Stillriledup


What did the Beyer group give him?


mountainman do you really feel that Gatewood had the perfect conditions/ride for the best race of his career and will never be close to this effort again?

[Stillriledup]

I am going to award a point against you mr Stillriledup


What did the Beyer group give him?


mountainman do you really feel that Gatewood had the perfect conditions/ride for the best race of his career and will never be close to this effort again?

It doesn't matter what beyer thinks, all that matters is what the person who saw the race thinks. ;)

[mountainman]

In this rare instance, the boundaries of time and pace and class were meaningless.

There can be no response to a statement like this. Nor further debate from my end.

[Stillriledup]

There can be no response to a statement like this. Nor further debate from my end.
:D

This horse was streaking around the track, running like a demon, he was opening up at will and would have kept pouring it on if the jock kept shoving, he wasn't slowing down at all, if this jocks's life depended on him winning by 40, it would have been awful close.

[mountainman]

:D

This horse was streaking around the track, running like a demon, he was opening up at will and would have kept pouring it on if the jock kept shoving, he wasn't slowing down at all, if this jocks's life depended on him winning by 40, it would have been awful close.

So now we've invoked demons, possession, and potential loss of life, redefined t-bred performance, and pretty much suspended the laws of time and space. Do you guys really want your names on this stuff?

[Stillriledup]

So now we've invoked demons, possession, and potential loss of life, redefined t-bred performance, and pretty much suspended the laws of time and space. Do you guys really want your names on this insanity?

The horse just freaked plain and simple. This guy was running like the devil was chasing him, he would have just kept widening if the jock didnt ease him up, who knows what would have happened had he kept rolling.

[Peter Berry]

So now we've invoked demons, possession, and potential loss of life, redefined t-bred performance, and pretty much suspended the laws of time and space. Do you guys really want your names on this stuff?
This was akin to a UFO sighting: Some people will believe what they saw, others won't. And the sceptics will be out in force.

Not everything fits neatly into a box. Life would be awfully dull if it did.

If Gatewood had run a second faster to the turn his overmatched rivals would have been spent earlier. His final time might have been slower but his margin of victory greater.

I know what I saw. I saw a UFO.

[mountainman]

This was akin to a UFO sighting: Some people will believe what they saw, others won't. And the sceptics will be out in force.

Not everything fits neatly into a box. Life would be awfully dull if it did.

If Gatewood had run a second faster to the turn his overmatched rivals would have been spent earlier. His final time might have been slower but his margin of victory greater. I know what I saw.

And now ufo's and the nature of life? What's next, the holy spirit? This has nothing to do with belief or skepticism. You talk like you witnessed a miracle (but DENY it was a mercurial performance??). This is between those who understand pace, time, running style, and the nature of wide-margin wins, and those who do not.

And now that any notion of Gatewood running 4 seconds faster has been logically refuted, the new theory is that his rivals would have run 20 lengths slower????? Do you know how far 20 lengths is? How astoundingly significant that spacing is in a t-bred race??? Let's call it the difference between Game on Dude and 10k claimers.

In fact, you stated that this 21- length winner could have scored by FIFTY. For the record, that's the same as attributing almost 60 additional beyer points to whatever number the horse is assigned. And sixty beyer points is an entire (rather snappy) horserace in itself at the level Gatewood scored at.

Again, you're standing by these assertions????? With your real name next to them??? Right here on the record. And that's after demons, possession, and ufo's have been invoked on your side of the argument.

[Peter Berry]

Yes.

[mountainman]

Yes.

Get some sleep, dude. I'm about to drift off. We'll discontinue this tomorrow.

[thaskalos]

I have great respect and admiration for both of you gentlemen...so I'll be diplomatic.

If roused...Gatewood could have won by 35.5 lengths. :)

[Stillriledup]

And now ufo's and the nature of life? What's next, the holy spirit? This has nothing to do with belief or skepticism. You talk like you witnessed a miracle (but DENY it was a mercurial performance??). This is between those who understand pace, time, running style, and the nature of wide-margin wins, and those who do not.

And now that any notion of Gatewood running 4 seconds faster has been logically refuted, the new theory is that his rivals would have run 20 lengths slower????? Do you know how far 20 lengths is? How astoundingly significant that spacing is in a t-bred race??? Let's call it the difference between Game on Dude and 10k claimers.

In fact, you stated that this 21- length winner could have scored by FIFTY. For the record, that's the same as attributing almost 60 additional beyer points to whatever number the horse is assigned. And sixty beyer points is an entire (rather snappy) horserace in itself at the level Gatewood scored at.

Again, you're standing by these assertions????? With your real name next to them??? Right here on the record. And that's after demons, possession, and ufo's have been invoked on your side of the argument.

This is why this is the greatest game on earth. Two people can watch the same thing and come up with completely different opinions.

[Stillriledup]

Gatewood Beyer: 80

[appistappis]

come on boys, its the mountain. He will probably have $39,000 to show on him in the next race and bobble and run 4th.

[ArlJim78]

I'm convinced this is the trial run of what could become a great comedy duo.

[cj]

Horse was assigned an 82 TimeformUS speed figure, only the third best of his career. The other horses didn't do much running, and he was the best horse coming in anyway.

[tanner12oz]

anyone have the video?

[mountainman]

Gatewood Beyer: 80

So after all the ridiculous hyperbole, the big boy actually ran about 3 lengths faster than a good field of 10 claimers. And you guys are on record that the horse could have won by 50, which translates to a bsf of about 136, almost 20 points north of Game on Dude's season topping 117, and (I'm pretty sure) surpassing Groovy's standard of 133.

So by virtue of demonic possession and little green men, Gatewood was deprived by his thrill-killing rider of the fastest performance since the advent of mass-circulated speed numbers.

Congratulations boys. You've annointed him the fastest horse in modern history.

[mountainman]

Horse was assigned an 82 TimeformUS speed figure, only the third best of his career. The other horses didn't do much running, and he was the best horse coming in anyway.

Had he won by 50, as some project he could have, what timeform figure would gatewood have been assigned? And where would that place him in historical context?

[Peter Berry]

Had he won by 50, as some project he could have, what timeform figure would gatewood have been assigned? And where would that place him in historical context?
What do you think he would have won by had the rider not strangled him in the stretch?

[Peter Berry]

Running faster doesn't equate with winning by more. If he'd run faster early and had a slower final time there's every chance his margin of victory would have been greater because his overmatched rivals would have been toast earlier.

[mountainman]

What do you think he would have won by had the rider not strangled him in the stretch?

That's complicated, Pete. Most huge wins are completely misconstrued. I posted at length earlier on this thread about my views on "geared down" performances and the factors most observers aren't aware of or don't consider. Let me watch the replay and then give my estimate. ok?

[mountainman]

Running faster doesn't equate with winning by more. If he'd run faster early and had a slower final time there's every chance his margin of victory would have been greater because his overmatched rivals would have been toast earlier.

You can't find an extra 29 lengths in this highly debatable theory.

[Peter Berry]

Clearly you have never been on the receiving end of erotic asphyxiation. It costs me 20 lengths every time.

[mountainman]

Clearly you have never been on the receiving end of erotic asphyxiation. It costs me 20 lengths every time.

No, lol. But I've got my own proclivities. And certain riders would LOVE to see me strangled. Work to do, I'm out.

[Stillriledup]

That's complicated, Pete. Most huge wins are completely misconstrued. I posted at length earlier on this thread about my views on "geared down" performances and the factors most observers aren't aware of or don't consider. Let me watch the replay and then give my estimate. ok?

But not all "geared downs" are the same. This was a "special circumstance".

If any horse can freak its a horse by a Tiznow stallion, sometimes the light goes on and you get a perfect storm. I know it seems bizarre that this could have happened and its extremely hard to wrap our heads around it, but once in a million, something bizarre can happen at the racetrack.

[mountainman]

But not all "geared downs" are the same. This was a "special circumstance".

If any horse can freak its a horse by a Tiznow stallion, sometimes the light goes on and you get a perfect storm. I know it seems bizarre that this could have happened and its extremely hard to wrap our heads around it, but once in a million, something bizarre can happen at the racetrack.

Oh, I can wrap my head around an 80 bsf just fine. Not a problem.

[Stillriledup]

Another horse won last night by 22.5 lengths.

If 20 length winners are the "norm" why can't we have an outlier win by 40?

Answer? We can. :D

[andtheyreoff]

The greatest horse who ever lived returns in the fourth at Indiana Downs on Friday night. Similar level, same distance.

[tanner12oz]

What happened?

[brivolta]

What happened?
Beaten by 7 lengths as the 1/2 chalk

[dilanesp]

So buzzer or drugs?

The jockey was using a tremendous machine!

[Stillriledup]

Mark shouting out this thread on the air. Check it out folks :D

[Longshot6977]

Well, Gatewood was in the Mountain's 6th tonite. He didn't win by 100 lengths again; this time it was about 18 lengths EASILY with seemingly no effort at all. He took about $40,000 in the show pool during the last flash.

[Stillriledup]

Great call by Peter, very nice!! :D

[zico20]

Gatewood is running in the second at Indiana on Saturday in a starter allowance. 6 day turn around.

[Stillriledup]

Gatewood is running in the second at Indiana on Saturday in a starter allowance. 6 day turn around.

Great bet against. Stupid entry.

[zico20]

Gatewood ran 2nd today. Lost by a length at 3-5. Only a five horse field with a couple of scratches.

[Stillriledup]

Gatewood ran 2nd today. Lost by a length at 3-5. Only a five horse field with a couple of scratches.

The horse owns mountaineer, makes no sense to be running the horse every 4 hours at a track not called mountaineer.