Racing horses into shape

[cashmachine]

I am reading Tom Ainslie's "Complete guide" and he said that one reason why trainers enter horses into a race with wrong distance is that he want to give horse "some training", at the same time hiding true current horse's shape. I just do not understand why he cannot train horse during regular workouts. why horse has to actually participate in a race to get some training? Don't you think it is much more logical, convenient and efficient to train horse during workouts and save horse from stress of actual race? Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

[Stillriledup]

I am reading Tom Ainslie's "Complete guide" and he said that one reason why trainers enter horses into a race with wrong distance is that he want to give horse "some training", at the same time hiding true current horse's shape. I just do not understand why he cannot train horse during regular workouts. why horse has to actually participate in a race to get some training? Don't you think it is much more logical, convenient and efficient to train horse during workouts and save horse from stress of actual race? Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Ainslie wrote that a long time ago, and he also wrote a harness racing book, so back then, there was a lot more conservative approach to this, but now, horses are more fragile and most trainers don't like to waste a start, especially with a speed horse who is going to battle for the lead.

Harness horses train less between races than they used to, some guys don't even train them between starts, you know, depending on the horse and how durable that horse seems to be, but its a different game now, a lot more conservative and trainers don't waste starts, especially in Thoroughbred racing.

When Ainslie wrote that stuff it was much more true than it is in today's game.

[Appy]

Sometimes it's hard to arrange company breezes from the gate. Experience is the best teacher.
Sometimes you want a start but are running out of possibilities toward the end of a meet. Or maybe it's a horse fresh off claim and the entry is a race the horse stands little chance to get claimed out of. After one race you can take him to run anywhere.
I had to do it twice. I would have preferred not to have a training exercise go on the horse's record, but I just didn't have a choice at the time.
There are lots of reasons why you might enter a race for training purposes.

One thing I don't buy is someone entering a race to "hide a horse's condition". To improve condition, maybe. To quicken pace maybe. but I don't think entering a race can HIDE anything.

[cashmachine]

Ainslie wrote that a long time ago, and he also wrote a harness racing book

Ainslie wrote 2 "complete guides", one is for harness and other for thoroughbred racing, I am reading thoroughbred.

[davew]

you get the whole package on race day

paddock, saddling, jockey, other horses, warm-up. gate loading, mass start, pace, close quarters running, warm down, detention/sampling


I think there are actually more horses ran looking at 'something' down the road rather than an aim for a win today than most players realize. I just can not predict before the race starts who is 'gunning' for today.

I say this because after watching enough replays/races you get to see jockeys do stuff on horses that just seems to be counterproductive to the goal of winning the race today.

[raybo]

Personally, I believe that there are just as many training races, percentage wise compared to starts, today as in the past. Horses may indeed be in a race for training purposes and also with the hope of getting in the money. When you don't race horses you have no income coming in, only expenses going out, at least in a race where you have little chance of winning, you still have the chance of making a few bucks with a non-winning effort.

Today, one must still attempt to determine trainer intent, just like in the past. Basically, if the horse is in a race that makes no sense, then it's probably not in the race to win, but as training, with the hope of making some kind of income.

[cashmachine]

Today, one must still attempt to determine trainer intent, just like in the past. Basically, if the horse is in a race that makes no sense, then it's probably not in the race to win, but as training, with the hope of making some kind of income.
What do you do to determine trainer's intent? Distance is one indicator, are there other?

[Capper Al]

What do you do to determine trainer's intent? Distance is one indicator, are there other?

Distance is a big one. Surface is another big one. There are days since last raced or worked, and simple class evaluations. Is the horse running for a purse that he never came in the money before. Jockey moves my also be informative but tricky to figure.

[davew]

What do you do to determine trainer's intent? Distance is one indicator, are there other?

trainers past history - some use a track/meet as a 'warm-up' to their main money making track/meet, especially if they are not in a local year-round circuit and their horses training/racing year-round.

[JohnGalt1]

What do you do to determine trainer's intent? Distance is one indicator, are there other?

Is when you see a graded stakes winner coming out of a long lay off in an allowance race prepping for an upcoming stakes race.

If the horse happens to win-- if they are just too good or competitive to lose-- the pay off is too low and if it's just a paid workout, betters are throwing their money away.

[traynor]

What do you do to determine trainer's intent? Distance is one indicator, are there other?

It is safe to assume that if a bettor can determine a trainer's intent, the trainer did not intend it to be concealed.

[forced89]

In the old days (40 or so years ago back when Ainslie wroth his book) racing cheap horses into shape early in the season was a normal occurrence. We considered it getting paid for a workout rather than paying an exercise boy. The tracks used to facilitate this by scheduling shorter races early on and gradually lengthening them out, say 4 1/2 furlongs, then 5 furlongs, then 5 1/2 furlongs, then finally 6 furlongs.

[Tom]

A friend of mine owned a horse in the 1970s.
We were talking with his trainer (77 years old), and I mentioned that he was hitting 14% and that was pretty good. He replied, "What do you think I'm hitting when I'm trying?"

Never forgot that.

[Robert Goren]

A friend of mine owned a horse in the 1970s.
We were talking with his trainer (77 years old), and I mentioned that he was hitting 14% and that was pretty good. He replied, "What do you think I'm hitting when I'm trying?"

Never forgot that.Racing horses to cash bets was a lot more common pre horseman's unions because the purse were so small. A lot of things changed when the purses went up. There is less "not trying" today than there was, but some of it still goes on. It is very hard to figure out if they are "not trying" today. It is easier and more profitable to figure out that they were "not trying" with a horse last out. These days they seldom "not try" for two races in row and almost never for three races in row. In the old days, they go 5 or 6 race trying to "hide" the horse.
Second level trainers often have pattern they use to set up a betting score. Some are very predictable. You have to keep good records and the patience of Job in order to take advantage of those trainers. We are talking one race a day at most and that's assuming you have "the book" on all the trainers. In practice in today's it is likely the best you can do is a race every three or four days. There a few trainers who only(or rarely) win without one of their patterns. If you keep track of this stuff, you learn who they are pretty quickly. In todays world of pace handicapping, data base betting and multi track wagering this style of betting has largely gone by the wayside.
Note: I used to do a lot of this style of betting. I don't anymore because it is more work than I willing or able to do. But I still believe strongly that there is money to made doing it.

[cashmachine]

Surface is another big one.

So, you are saying that horses have preference for surface?

[raybo]

What do you do to determine trainer's intent? Distance is one indicator, are there other?

If there are enough past performances for the horse, pattern recognition often tells you what the trainer is trying to do. Time increments, workout distances and timing of those workouts, distance increases or decreases, surface changes, track changes, jockey changes, the weaknesses and strengths the horse has been exhibiting recently, are some of what goes into the determination of trainer intent.

[cashmachine]

But how TRAINER knows which distance is the best for horse? Ainslie said it is determined mostly by breeding and training. So, when a new foal arrives to the barn, trainer just look up his ancestry and say, like his father was sprinter, and this foal has all the confirmation signs of a sprinter, so I will train him as sprinter? OR it happens mostly by trial and error? If so, then only much later in the racing carrier of a foal we can know for sure which distance is right for him?

[raybo]

But how TRAINER knows which distance is the best for horse? Ainslie said it is determined mostly by breeding and training. So, when a new foal arrives to the barn, trainer just look up his ancestry and say, like his father was sprinter, and this foal has all the confirmation signs of a sprinter, so I will train him as sprinter? OR it happens mostly by trial and error? If so, then only much later in the racing carrier of a foal we can know for sure which distance is right for him?

You never know, for sure, until you run the distance, more than once, with more than one pace scenario. Just one of many reasons for training races versus workouts.

Running a real race, against real horses, who are trying to beat you, is about as good as it gets.

[NY BRED]

As the oldies song stated:

"ain't nothing like the real thing"
'

:cool: :cool: