View Full Version : Condition wagering is bad for the game
wiffleball whizz
06-12-2014, 09:36 AM
In my opinion needs to be abolished....
Kills the live on track players and those that don't have access to the product....you never know what price you may get if your live at track...
I feel I'm held hostage by these players and gotta keep looking at board after the race to make sure my odds aren't changing...
I used to think on the big days this couldn't happen but recently on a big grade 1 race there was a blatant case of condition wagering
How do you feel about conditional wagering?
I don't like it
proximity
06-12-2014, 10:00 AM
with all due respect (and a lot is due) i'm not sure I agree.
* for one thing the game today needs ALL the wagers and interest it can get.
* i'm not sure it's enough just to handicap the horses today. a player also has to be able to handicap the crowd. it's kind of like a poker game in some regards.
* you could (probably) conditional wager yourself and still go and enjoy a peaceful day at the track.
*** I do think it is a problem that the players who deserve the most respect and the largest player rewards or rebates.... the loyal on track players.... are usually given the worst benefits if they even receive any at all. it is absolutely absurd that loyal on track players at pen or ct for example get a fraction of a percent in the casino era. shameful.
davew
06-12-2014, 10:02 AM
you never know what price you are going to get with conditional wagering either
horses4courses
06-12-2014, 10:03 AM
In my opinion needs to be abolished....
Kills the live on track players and those that don't have access to the product....you never know what price you may get if your live at track...
I feel I'm held hostage by these players and gotta keep looking at board after the race to make sure my odds aren't changing...
I used to think on the big days this couldn't happen but recently on a big grade 1 race there was a blatant case of condition wagering
How do you feel about conditional wagering?
I don't like it
As 90% of my play is through ADWs, I like it as an option - especially when I have to bet the race in advance.
Do I use it much? Not really - probably on less than 5% of my win bets. It's nice to have the option, though.
As far as big bettors go (which I am definitely not), I see your frustration.
Small mutuel pools do not take shape until post time,
and that makes it really hard for the player to have an accurate handle on what their odds will be.
That can't help the game. So, for the little good it does, conditional wagering is probably best abolished.
I'd like to know the $ volume of conditional wagers on a daily basis - it's probably smaller than you think.
Maybe only having the "A" tracks (NY, SoCal, etc.) available for conditional wagering might be the way to go.
With bigger pools it's not an issue.
Robert Goren
06-12-2014, 10:06 AM
As 90% of my play is through ADWs, I like it as an option - especially when I have to bet the race in advance.
Do I use it much? Not really - probably on less than 5% of my win bets. It's nice to have the option, though.
As far as big bettors go (which I am definitely not), I see your frustration.
Small mutuel pools do not take shape until post time, and that makes it really hard for the player to have an accurate handle on what their odds will be.
That can't help the game. So, for the little good it does, conditional wagering is probably best abolished. I'd like to know the $ volume of conditional wagers on a daily basis - it's probably smaller than you think.
Maybe only having the "A" tracks (NY, SoCal, etc.) available for conditional wagering might be the way to go. With bigger pools it's not an issue.Unless it is the win pool in the Belmont Stakes! Actually it happens a lot at the NYRA which I bet.
wiffleball whizz
06-12-2014, 10:10 AM
with all due respect (and a lot is due) i'm not sure I agree.
* for one thing the game today needs ALL the wagers and interest it can get.
* i'm not sure it's enough just to handicap the horses today. a player also has to be able to handicap the crowd. it's kind of like a poker game in some regards.
* you could (probably) conditional wager yourself and still go and enjoy a peaceful day at the track.
*** I do think it is a problem that the players who deserve the most respect and the largest player rewards or rebates.... the loyal on track players.... are usually given the worst benefits if they even receive any at all. it is absolutely absurd that loyal on track players at pen or ct for example get a fraction of a percent in the casino era. shameful.
That's fair :ThmbUp:
Conditional wagering isn't all it was cracked up to be. The late odds swings and inconsistent post times see to that.
If you set a horse to be bet at 6 to 1 with 0 minutes to post, you can be sure you will lose if it gets pounded later (after 0 minutes to post) to 4-1 and your bet goes through.
If you set a horse to be bet at 6-1 with 0 minutes to post and the bet declines because he is 5 to 1 at 0 to post, the race will go off two minutes later and he'll win at 8 to 1.
These are like the "unwritten rules" of racing. Seen it happen way to many times to have any real faith in the conditional wagering.
JustRalph
06-12-2014, 01:25 PM
Conditional wagering isn't all it was cracked up to be. The late odds swings and inconsistent post times see to that.
If you set a horse to be bet at 6 to 1 with 0 minutes to post, you can be sure you will lose if it gets pounded later (after 0 minutes to post) to 4-1 and your bet goes through.
If you set a horse to be bet at 6-1 with 0 minutes to post and the bet declines because he is 5 to 1 at 0 to post, the race will go off two minutes later and he'll win at 8 to 1.
These are like the "unwritten rules" of racing. Seen it happen way to many times to have any real faith in the conditional wagering.
For a while I was putting in conditional bets at 5:30a after a third shift at work, and going about my day, checking the races in the evening. I was doing ok on the strike rate, but eventually the same problems you mention above came into play.
Using the conditional program was convenient but not observing the betting patterns etc I found put me at a disadvantage. Not being able to make a full plate of bets was also limiting. No place programming, no exotics etc. It works if you have a stable mail horse you want to put a few bucks on etc, but that's about it for me. I gave it up.
davew
06-15-2014, 12:25 PM
Unless it is the win pool in the Belmont Stakes! Actually it happens a lot at the NYRA which I bet.
How do you have any idea how/where the bets come from?
Robert Goren
06-15-2014, 01:18 PM
How do you have any idea how/where the bets come from?Nope and have not heard of anybody who does.
PressThePace
06-15-2014, 03:46 PM
Conditional wagering isn't all it was cracked up to be. The late odds swings and inconsistent post times see to that.
If you set a horse to be bet at 6 to 1 with 0 minutes to post, you can be sure you will lose if it gets pounded later (after 0 minutes to post) to 4-1 and your bet goes through.
If you set a horse to be bet at 6-1 with 0 minutes to post and the bet declines because he is 5 to 1 at 0 to post, the race will go off two minutes later and he'll win at 8 to 1.
These are like the "unwritten rules" of racing. Seen it happen way to many times to have any real faith in the conditional wagering.
I've been on the wrong side of conditional wagering too, but I've been saved by it more often. I've been keeping records of exactly what you're talking about for about two years now, and the pros and cons have basically cancelled each other. However, we tend to remember the bets that would have won a little better.
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