Delta blatenly screws bettors

[tampahorseplayer]

Race 8 tonight, quarter horse race. Watch the replay, the gate on the 2 CLEARLY opens well after everyone else, short inquiry, no refunds as a non starter no nothing. This was a super short 250 yd. race, the start was everything. Im done with this track tbred or qh, but how in the world do they get away with this crap, doesnt the racing commission have rules against this?

[Robert Goren]

Live and learn.

[tampahorseplayer]

I can take a loss, a beat due to bumping, bad jockey etc. But a loss due to crappy track equipment means that the owners of the track running the race alters said race, which they are "suppoused" to be independant of and just take a chop of the pools. Im not a conspiracy theorist at all, Im sure it was due to their crappy starting gate, but what if someone watches that new to racing and they think of it as cheating or someone at the track did it to make them lose. How is their still players in this game?

[Robert Goren]

I can take a loss, a beat due to bumping, bad jockey etc. But a loss due to crappy track equipment means that the owners of the track running the race alters said race, which they are "suppoused" to be independant of and just take a chop of the pools. Im not a conspiracy theorist at all, Im sure it was due to their crappy starting gate, but what if someone watches that new to racing and they think of it as cheating or someone at the track did it to make them lose. How is their still players in this game? Because we think we are smart enough to overcome the cheating.

[tampahorseplayer]

Louisiana racing commission rules

"For the purpose of this Section, when horses are
prevented from starting by any malfunction of the starting
gate itself they shall be considered as having been excused
by the stewards. "

Awesome, dont even follow your own rules... I called to speak to one of the stewards, the operator put me on hold for about 5 minutes and came back and said they were to busy to take my call at this time....

[Stillriledup]

they just didnt want to refund the money,they figured horseplayers are idiots, many wouldnt even notice and even the ones who noticed, what are you going to do about it is probably their theory.

[Dark Horse]

I avoid Louisiana racing like the plague. Dropped them an e-mail out of solidarity.

[Stillriledup]

Because we think we are smart enough to overcome the cheating.

This is a very good post, couldn't agree more.

[tampahorseplayer]

Started a pick 3 with him, singled him in a pick 4, would have won both, even if just a conso pick 3 or whatever. Your right on with them feeling like who gives a crap, what they going to do? I guess its too much work for the stewards to call mutuals and declare a non starter. What I dont get is they did have an inquiry for a short time. They must have had Mr. Magoo look at the starting gate and he saw no late opening..

[TravisVOX]

Did he have a flipping halter on?

[tampahorseplayer]

It wasnt a halter issue, the gate just opened about a second slower then everyone else. The replay clearly shows it.

[Stillriledup]

I watched the replay again, and the announcer said something that i don't know much about, they said your horse was outfitted with a "flipping halter" and that she reared back just as the gates opened and caused her own problem and that was why there was no refund.

I don't know much about this, but it seems odd that they would put a piece of equipment on a horse who could affect if her gate opens or not, just seems unfair to the public, but again, i'm not a QH expert, so i dont know what flipping halter means or how it affected this particular race.

[tampahorseplayer]

Well, a flipping halter would maybe slow the horse to break if it rears or whatever but the gate would open at the same time as everyone else, but how the hell does any equipment make the gate open AFTER everyone else? Ive watched many races at los al with horses with this on and never an issue with the gate opening late. The thing that bothers me most is the stewards being "too busy" when there is 22 mtp for the next race to speak to me for a minute. Ill be too busy to wager on the entire state of la. from now on.

[Stillriledup]

Well, a flipping halter would maybe slow the horse to break if it rears or whatever but the gate would open at the same time as everyone else, but how the hell does any equipment make the gate open AFTER everyone else? Ive watched many races at los al with horses with this on and never an issue with the gate opening late. The thing that bothers me most is the stewards being "too busy" when there is 22 mtp for the next race to speak to me for a minute. Ill be too busy to wager on the entire state of la. from now on.

Tracks like this aren't in the business of losing customers for life, or, maybe they are.

[tampahorseplayer]

They have slots, they could care less if I even play a 1.00 show bet.

[Jeff P]

Screenshot from track video:


-jp

.

[RXB]

A flipping halter is used to help prevent horses from flipping in the gate. It's connected to the gate itself and comes off when the gate opens. If the horse moves in the gate, especially if it pulls its head backward, then the gate might not open with the others. There is no refund because that's the chance that is taken when a horse is equipped with a flipping halter.

[tampahorseplayer]

Can you show me in that screen shot where he is rearing up? Because Ive watched it a bunch of times and he doesnt seem to be acting up at all to me. The only thing I see is him nodding his head when the bell rings wanting to run, he never reared.

[Stillriledup]

Can you show me in that screen shot where he is rearing up? Because Ive watched it a bunch of times and he doesnt seem to be acting up at all to me.

Make 100 t shirts and stick them on the windshields of all the fans at delta, i'm sure Delta would love seeing people walking around the track with a t shirt of the gate not opening. :D

[RXB]

Wow, you edited that last post rather quickly, huh?

I have access to the video replay and there's no doubt that the horse moved just as the gate was about to open.

[tampahorseplayer]

Ok, so now if a horse movesp rior to the running of a race, the gate doesnt open? If thats the case no trainer would ever use this equipment. For the gate not to open the horse has to be going crazy. Do you think this is fair? Other horses in the race have much more movement prior to the bell. The gate opening like this is NOT because of a halter, show me any race replay where this has happened, and if theres any such video im sure the horse is rearing where the jockey is getting crushed or otherwise going crazy.

[RXB]

Ok, so now if a horse movesp rior to the running of a race, the gate doesnt open? If thats the case no trainer would ever use this equipment. For the gate not to open the horse has to be going crazy. Do you think this is fair? Other horses in the race have much more movement prior to the bell. The gate opening like this is NOT because of a halter, show me any race replay where this has happened, and if theres any such video im sure the horse is rearing where the jockey is getting crushed or otherwise going crazy.


Here's an old ruling from Los Alamitos:

(3) THIRD RACE – INQUIRY – NO CHANGE
After the finish of the third race (Quarter Horse – 350 yards) the Stewards posted the Inquiry sign to review the start. At the break #1 “Runaway Tyme” (jockey Cody Jensen) racing in a flipping halter, reared simultaneous with the start and unseated the rider. The horse held the gate with the flipping halter, but per the disclaimer in the program the horse is a starter.

[tampahorseplayer]

Did this horse rear simultaneous with the gate opening? This horse did not rear at all. looking at videos on google, for the gate not to open the horse has to rear back enough for the halter to tighten up, do you see any sort or rearing here? The only thing I see is when the bell rings and the gates open he nods his head as he wants to run. This was a gate malfunction in my opinion, and I played the race so I deserve to have a say, did you play the race?

[RXB]

I've never bet a QH race in my life. But at least I know what a flipping halter is and the basics of how it works.

[Some_One]

Whats the 'disclaimer in the program'?

[tampahorseplayer]

There wasnt one in my program at least, and I have been betting los al for a long time and never experienced anything like this out of hundreds maybe thousands of races, and I play delta once and this happens. Regardless of the reason why no equipment should be used that can prevent a fair start in my opinion. And im glad your an expert in horse equipment, im not, im just a bettor and you cant seem to realize what kind of impact this has on peoples opinions of the track.

[tampahorseplayer]

Id addition can you explain why in all the videos I see of horses with flipping halters altering the gate open they are rearing up and this horse does not? Are you telling me this horse acted up enough to where the halter stopped it from opening? Isnt it a possibility that the gate malfunctioned and just because the horse had a flipping halter they used it as an excuse? Bottom line, this wasnt knowledge to me, it is now, just another reason for the bettors to get screwed.

[PaceAdvantage]

So were you blatantly screwed, or were you ignorant of the rule? Which one is it?

If you were ignorant of the rule, should we change the title of this thread?

[Pensacola Pete]

The rules are clear about flipping halters. If the horse or the halter interferes with the opening of the gate, the horse is a starter. I would be surprised if the stewards didn't verify with the starter that the gate was working properly. It wouldn't take long to test it

I watched the 6th, 7th, 9th, and 10th races, and the gate opened the way it was supposed to in all of those.

As much as I hate Louisiana racing, and as dishonest as I think it is (the thoroughbreds anyway), there was no foul play with the gate.

[sammy the sage]

wrong...sure there's foul play...why...cause THE equipment change IS NOT given to the public....not on program...ect... :faint:

[TheEdge07]

Whizz this is a disgrace!!thoughts?

[PaceAdvantage]

wrong...sure there's foul play...why...cause THE equipment change IS NOT given to the public....not on program...ect... :faint:That's an entirely different ball of wax from what was presented by the OP

[Robert Goren]

The rules are clear about flipping halters. If the horse or the halter interferes with the opening of the gate, the horse is a starter. I would be surprised if the stewards didn't verify with the starter that the gate was working properly. It wouldn't take long to test it

I watched the 6th, 7th, 9th, and 10th races, and the gate opened the way it was supposed to in all of those.

As much as I hate Louisiana racing, and as dishonest as I think it is (the thoroughbreds anyway), there was no foul play with the gate. Did it occur to you that they might have fixed the gate before running those races.
Whatever happened, whether it was the result of the halter or not, racing has another dissatisfied customer and nobody from the industry seems to care. The attitude seems to be he is idiot for being one of our customers, so screw him.

[wiffleball whizz]

Screenshot from track video:


-jp

.

This is the most disgracful thing I've seen gambling related.....I don't wanna hear about flipping alters or anything else....

Why if I'm gambling and have the 2 am I not entitled to a refund?

This is bad.....and this will gain steam to a 200 post thread in a heartbeat...I would demand my money back

Flipping alters.....now I've heard it all

[TravisVOX]

A few years ago while calling at QH race at LAD I noticed a gate opened a half-second after the rest. I had the video guys make a copy of the DVD and brought it to the stewards. We watched it together. The horse, at the last moment, tossed his head just a bit and took a half-step back. He pulled on the halter and basically kept his gate closed.

In our programs at LAD there was a disclaimer regarding flipping halters. Because QH are so jazzed-up and crazy, the halter is used to keep them restrained in the gate. If there were no halters, the number of late scratches, injuries etc. in the gate would increase substantially as rarely does a field of Q's stand well.

[wiffleball whizz]

That's an entirely different ball of wax from what was presented by the OP

This is 50x worse then tonalist getting buried from 11/1 to 9/1 during the race if you ask me.....

This is blatant theft....and even that is putting it kindly

I would call up the racing commission ASAP and demand my money back

[wiffleball whizz]

A few years ago while calling at QH race at LAD I noticed a gate opened a half-second after the rest. I had the video guys make a copy of the DVD and brought it to the stewards. We watched it together. The horse, at the last moment, tossed his head just a bit and took a half-step back. He pulled on the halter and basically kept his gate closed.

In our programs at LAD there was a disclaimer regarding flipping halters. Because QH are so jazzed-up and crazy, the halter is used to keep them restrained in the gate. If there were no halters, the number of late scratches, injuries etc. in the gate would increase substantially as rarely does a field of Q's stand well.

If you bet the :2: here you need to get your money back.....

[precocity]

Screenshot from track video:


-jp

.
NOW I HAVE SEEN IT ALL! LIKE MY OLD MAN TOLD ME ONCE- IT TAKES ALL KINDS! MEANING PEOPLE! SAME FOR HORSE RACING.

[Hambletonian]

This was either a gate malfunction or a horse malfunction. the fact is they don't put flipping halters on many horses, so you already know the horse has it's own malfunction issues.

i am guessing this horse, who obviously is already a threat to himself and others in the gate on a good day, managed to muck it up for himself again.

Anyone know if flipping halters are listed in the program, or on an equipmen board somewhere, or announced prior to the race? I know I have heard it mentioned pre race before, but only a few times. It is probably a piece of information that would be very useful, considering as the OP stated,the start in a 250 yard race is everything.

On the other hand, there is interference is practically every quarter horse race at the start. From love kisses to assault and battery, and if they forced every horse to run a straight line gate to wire there would be 9 DQs in every race.

[outofthebox]

Can you show me in that screen shot where he is rearing up? Because Ive watched it a bunch of times and he doesnt seem to be acting up at all to me. The only thing I see is him nodding his head when the bell rings wanting to run, he never reared.Feel for you tampa. But you will see no rearing up because when a horse is equipped with the halter he "can't" flip or raise up on his hinds. He is trying but basically he is putting pounds of pressure against the halter, and creating reverse force when the gates opened. His gate was set to open with the others, and did not open until he stopped fighting the halter.

[tampahorseplayer]

If this equipment can cause a gate to not open with such little activity it should say in the program "please note that thegate may not open due to equipment" are casual bettors now required to dodge equipment screwing them too? What if someone thinks that the halter is part of some shenanigans using it as an excuse. All I know is I bet the 2, he didn't rear at all, and my bets were on fire. Equipment or not in my opinion gate doesn't open, horse isn't a starter. This makes me not even want to bet the entire qh breed. I'm sure if some tbred equipment made this happen and you had a pick 4 in the last leg those covering for it would be singing a different tune.

[tanner12oz]

Race 8 tonight, quarter horse race. Watch the replay, the gate on the 2 CLEARLY opens well after everyone else, short inquiry, no refunds as a non starter no nothing. This was a super short 250 yd. race, the start was everything. Im done with this track tbred or qh, but how in the world do they get away with this crap, doesnt the racing commission have rules against this?

ive noticed tracks rarely will declare a non starter...gate literally has to not open period...ive seen horses being strangled by starters being declared starters a million times over

[Pensacola Pete]

If you think it's that crooked, or inept, or apathetic, or whatever, don't play the track. I don't play Louisiana, Ohio, or West Virginia because of the cheating, and at the eastern tracks, I toss out all races that have any of three certain trainers with entries. I can't fight those druggers. Since I did that, my bottom line went up 10%.

Just before the gate opened, the horse moved its feet and lifted its head slightly to the right. That's all it takes to tighten the lines and keep that gate shut for a split second, until the halter is freed. The door on stall 4 (the stall #2 was fidgeting in) works fine. It doesn't stand a chance of opening against a half-ton animal's weight.

[tampahorseplayer]

Your right I won't be playing them again. Any equipment which can alter a fair start should not be allowed IMO. I have no problem with a gate opening and horse has a bad start, rears etc but for the gate not to even open destroying any change of running in the money defies racing logic to me.

[maclr11]

So you'd rather have the horse flip and kill the rider or gate crew and put himself at even greater risk. Seriously the horse isn't wearing a flipping halter for no reason, he must have had some bad history with it. He obviously needed it as well if he reared at break as well.

[wiffleball whizz]

So you'd rather have the horse flip and kill the rider or gate crew and put himself at even greater risk. Seriously the horse isn't wearing a flipping halter for no reason, he must have had some bad history with it. He obviously needed it as well if he reared at break as well.

Were talking from a gambling perspective......nobody ever wants to see injuries or fatalities......

[Stillriledup]

So you'd rather have the horse flip and kill the rider or gate crew and put himself at even greater risk. Seriously the horse isn't wearing a flipping halter for no reason, he must have had some bad history with it. He obviously needed it as well if he reared at break as well.

He wants to win his bet, or at least have a fair shot. If a horse needs that equipment, why not let that horse run for purse only.

[maclr11]

Because he is in the race. You can't be a part of the race but not wagering it changes too many things. I know some tracks do it but it is not a viable solution. If the horse didn't have the halter on he obviously acted up so he wouldn't have been able to get involved in such a short dash anyways. So no matter what it seems like the horse was never gonna be involved in race. Just bad racing luck for a horse that's a bad actor in the gate.

[Stillriledup]

Because he is in the race. You can't be a part of the race but not wagering it changes too many things. I know some tracks do it but it is not a viable solution. If the horse didn't have the halter on he obviously acted up so he wouldn't have been able to get involved in such a short dash anyways. So no matter what it seems like the horse was never gonna be involved in race. Just bad racing luck for a horse that's a bad actor in the gate.

I guess you can say that the bettors are supposed to know better and not bet on a horse with a halter, but if the horse is in the race, it has some sort of shot, i think the key is that the gate has to open on time. If the horse rears and gets a poor start that's one thing, but the gate needed to open. Horses who "Cause their own problems" quite often come back to hit the board or win, but if the gate doesn't open, that's an entire different discussion.

[Saratoga_Mike]

I hate to admit it, but I think SRU is right. If the correct ruling was made, then the rule needs to be changed.

[cj]

Because he is in the race. You can't be a part of the race but not wagering it changes too many things. I know some tracks do it but it is not a viable solution. If the horse didn't have the halter on he obviously acted up so he wouldn't have been able to get involved in such a short dash anyways. So no matter what it seems like the horse was never gonna be involved in race. Just bad racing luck for a horse that's a bad actor in the gate.

I agree with this. If the horse acted up enough to keep the gate from opening on time, he wasn't going to be a factor anyway. Just because he didn't rear up or wheel back doesn't mean he wasn't pushing back and trying to do so. He wouldn't have won without the equipment.

[Stillriledup]

I hate to admit it, but I think SRU is right. If the correct ruling was made, then the rule needs to be changed.

Thank you, i'll print this screen shot out and put it on my wall, "SRU IS RIGHT" lol

It just seems that if equipment is needed that could possibly not make the door open on time, bettors need to be at least aware this could happen. But, even still, what do they do, announce that a horse has a halter and if she acts up its possible the gate won't open and if the gate doesn't open, too bad on you, they're off and you lose?

Bettors understand that sometimes their horse will cause commotion in the gate and get a bad start, but if the track itself is deciding that this horse needs a flipping halter, that's for safety of the gate crew, the jock and of course, the horse....but the bettor doesnt care, he wants a fair shot and would prefer to have no flipping halter, if the horse flips, that's not the bettors problem...so, if you are going to "protect" the horse, jock and gate crew, you need to also protect the bettor...and i don't think they did it in this case.

[Show Me the Wire]

Bettors understand that sometimes their horse will cause commotion in the gate and get a bad start, but if the track itself is deciding that this horse needs a flipping halter, that's for safety of the gate crew, the jock and of course, the horse....but the bettor doesnt care, he wants a fair shot and would prefer to have no flipping halter, if the horse flips, that's not the bettors problem...so, if you are going to "protect" the horse, jock and gate crew, you need to also protect the bettor...and i don't think they did it in this case.

I strongly agree. If a horse poses that much danger to evryone and itself, the animal should not be allowed in the gate, period. Using equipment which can be detrimental to a bettor to protect everyone else deserves a big :ThmbDown: .

[Pensacola Pete]

If the track gave a rat's butt about the bettors, it would put a stop all of the other blatant cheating that's been going on since Day One.

As far as the flipping halter goes, they should take care of the problem that requires it: the bad-mannered horse. If the trainer can't teach the animal to behave in the gate, then it shouldn't be allowed to race until it's shown that it can behave.

[cj]

I strongly agree. If a horse poses that much danger to evryone and itself, the animal should not be allowed in the gate, period. Using equipment which can be detrimental to a bettor to protect everyone else deserves a big :ThmbDown: .

That would exclude a lot of quarter horses. Fields are hard enough to fill these days.

[johnhannibalsmith]

...It just seems that if equipment is needed that could possibly not make the door open on time, bettors need to be at least aware this could happen. ...

FLIPPING HALTERS (IN BIG GIANT BOX AND HUGE BOLD FONT):

Flipping halters are designed to prevent horses from rearing or flipping in the gate. The use of a flipping halter is an important factor because the opening of the horse's gate may be delayed if the horse leans back against the rope or attempts to flip as the gate is opened. These horses are considered starters.

That's from the first program I pulled from a track that runs quarters.

I know it sucks, but if you are betting pounders and are learning this just now...

[Stillriledup]

That would exclude a lot of quarter horses. Fields are hard enough to fill these days.

They can use the equipment, but its not much to ask for the gate to open with the other runners. I know your point is that the horse wasnt winning anyway, bettors don't like tracks telling them "its ok the gate didnt open, you werent going to win anyway". I think bettors would rather see the gate open and take their chances, there's a lot of perception problems with horse racing and while you're right and the horse wasn't going to win, people need to see the gate open, you know, for their own mental health.

[cj]

They can use the equipment, but its not much to ask for the gate to open with the other runners. I know your point is that the horse wasnt winning anyway, bettors don't like tracks telling them "its ok the gate didnt open, you werent going to win anyway". I think bettors would rather see the gate open and take their chances, there's a lot of perception problems with horse racing and while you're right and the horse wasn't going to win, people need to see the gate open, you know, for their own mental health.

You clearly don't understand how the equipment works. Maybe you could design a new piece that keeps horses from flipping and doesn't attach to the gate, but until then it is all that the sport has.

[Jeff P]

You clearly don't understand how the equipment works. Maybe you could design a new piece that keeps horses from flipping and doesn't attach to the gate, but until then it is all that the sport has.I think it might be easy enough to design a piece of equipment employing an electrical sensor that makes a light come on (or turn off) when a horse outfitted with a flipping halter is pulling backwards against the gate. If the starter could see a light mounted above or on the outside of the stall doors turn on (or turn off) when a horse wearing a flipping halter is pulling backwards against the gate - at the very least he would be aware that the horse is acting up - and would have an opportunity to let the horse settle down before pushing the button.


-jp

.

[Robert Goren]

All this stuff how the horse using a halter is preventing the horse, jockey etc from being hurt is fine. Just tells when a horse is racing with it and put in the PPs when it raced with it in the past. Is that too much to ask?

[PaceAdvantage]

FLIPPING HALTERS (IN BIG GIANT BOX AND HUGE BOLD FONT):

Flipping halters are designed to prevent horses from rearing or flipping in the gate. The use of a flipping halter is an important factor because the opening of the horse's gate may be delayed if the horse leans back against the rope or attempts to flip as the gate is opened. These horses are considered starters.

That's from the first program I pulled from a track that runs quarters.

I know it sucks, but if you are betting pounders and are learning this just now...The voice of reason in a sea of ignorance...

[Mr_Ed]

You may want to turn on a filter if you image search 'flipping halter'.

:eek:

[Rise Over Run]

You may want to turn on a filter if you image search 'flipping halter'.

:eek:

Or quite possibly you should elect to turn OFF any internet filters for your search. ;) ;)

[Stillriledup]

FLIPPING HALTERS (IN BIG GIANT BOX AND HUGE BOLD FONT):

Flipping halters are designed to prevent horses from rearing or flipping in the gate. The use of a flipping halter is an important factor because the opening of the horse's gate may be delayed if the horse leans back against the rope or attempts to flip as the gate is opened. These horses are considered starters.

That's from the first program I pulled from a track that runs quarters.

I know it sucks, but if you are betting pounders and are learning this just now...

I dont think i've ever bet a QH race and i don't follow it at all.

[Longshot6977]

Remington Park 1990. Same gate thing happened and he was declared a starter even though he reared up and flipped and unseated the jockey in the gate.

http://newsok.com/haltered-horse-flips-out-in-race/article/2323806

If the flipping halter doesn't work, the jock can always do what Tommy Molina did. Amazing.

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/people/jockey-tommy-molina-stomps-on-horse-before-race/

[sammy the sage]

That's an entirely different ball of wax from what was presented by the OP

true enough...but foul IS FOUL :bang: :faint:

[sammy the sage]

All this stuff how the horse using a halter is preventing the horse, jockey etc from being hurt is fine. Just tells when a horse is racing with it and put in the PPs when it raced with it in the past. Is that too much to ask?

seems like a few here think not...riDICulous if you ask me... :bang: :faint:

[johnhannibalsmith]

seems like a few here think not...riDICulous if you ask me... :bang: :faint:

Like who? I missed those posts.

[tampahorseplayer]

Admin if you want you can change the title, as Ive come to read here this is a flipping halter issue, that is not just for delta downs. However my view on it being wrong for bettors is still the same. What if during the start of a race, some kind of equipment on a tbred prevented the gate from opening, would everyone here be a-ok with it being declared a starter? In the program I had, it did not have it listed as equipment. Imo in any race where one is worn, it should have at the top of the program in bolded letters "One or more horses in this race are equipped with flipping halters, there is a chance that the gate may not open due to this equipment" I bet a race, I want to get a race simple as that. Im here to wager, and try to win $$ You want to protect your horse thats fine, find a way to do so without making it a chance that the people that make the races and purses possible dont get totally screwed. Im sure there has to be a way to create a halter that has nothing to do with the gate, however as we all know it isnt a priority since we are on the bottom of a very long totem pole, even though it is us who supports the industry.

[precocity]

I am surprised when I use to play on TS I rarely bet on quarter horse racing.
But when I did it seemed legit? now all the rules :D ALL I KNOW IF THE GATE DOSENT OPEN AND OTHER HORSES ARE RUNNING I WANT MY DAM MONEY BACK!!!AND THE FOSTER HANDICAP WANT MY MONEY BACK ON NEHRO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :ThmbUp:

[PaceAdvantage]

I can count on one hand the number of quarter horse races I have bet on in my life. I had no clue there was equipment like this in use. However, I would not go and start a thread on something like this without doing a little research on my own. Or at the very least, I would word the title of any thread I did make a little differently...lol

People are too quick to jump to conclusions. All this illegal stuff being reported in multiple threads around here...all these tracks robbing customers...fabricating photos to put horses up that haven't actually won (give me proof of this happening JUST ONE TIME...just once...at a track still in existence and one that draws more than 500 people a day on average)...not making a horse a non-starter when the gate doesn't open (why do you think they did that? Because they felt like it?)

My point is, whatever you think happened, it probably WASN'T a deliberate screwing or a theft or anything illegal. Do illegal things happen in this game? Sure.

[johnhannibalsmith]

... Im sure there has to be a way to create a halter that has nothing to do with the gate, however as we all know it isnt a priority since we are on the bottom of a very long totem pole, even though it is us who supports the industry.

I don't know if this makes it better or makes it worse, but at least where I've been, this isn't one of those antiquated racetrack situations that just get ignored. I've sat in with stews and management to try to come up with a better way with what we had to work with. Our biggest problem was people not entering with it as equipment and then it not appearing in the program and then needing to have the announcer declare it at 10MTP when the paddock judge questioned why it wasn't listed. Tried fining, threatening to scratch, you name it and there was no perfect solution, really not even a good one.

If there were a central racing authority, this is probably where it might be of help because they might actually commission research into an alternative or something. But, the "industry", such as it is, really has no R&D division and the free market demand for an improved flipping rig probably won't get it done either. So this is one of those cases where blaming the failure to improve (if it isn't even plausible) a rig that somehow doesn't attach to the gate yet still accomplishes the intended goal (which the current rig does pretty effectively) on the "industry" seems unfair. They can approve or reject their use, but I'm just not sure who could do what that would begin to get to where you want to be.

I don't particularly like flipping rigs and almost wish that they weren't used. I'm going to say that the ratio of them being a help (or no influence either way) to being a detriment is about 100:1, but I've never been entirely convinced that it justifies anything. Half of quarter racing is the break and what separates a lot of trainers is their commitment to gate work and effectiveness at trying to perfect it. Sometimes I just think it's a fix for a problem that might have been otherwise avoided if there wasn't that out and people didn't have a plan B to the proper plan, which is A. Often their use, or more accurately the conduct that prompted the use, is an indicator that maybe they just ought not be in the gate at all anymore.

It's just one of those things that may be a necessary evil because it works, but as whole scenario, it just doesn't work well enough for everyone to not at least be periodically considered a potential overall negative and given another round of attention.

[tampahorseplayer]

I can count on one hand the number of quarter horse races I have bet on in my life. I had no clue there was equipment like this in use. However, I would not go and start a thread on something like this without doing a little research on my own. Or at the very least, I would word the title of any thread I did make a little differently...lol

People are too quick to jump to conclusions. All this illegal stuff being reported in multiple threads around here...all these tracks robbing customers...fabricating photos to put horses up that haven't actually won (give me proof of this happening JUST ONE TIME...just once...at a track still in existence and one that draws more than 500 people a day on average)...not making a horse a non-starter when the gate doesn't open (why do you think they did that? Because they felt like it?)

My point is, whatever you think happened, it probably WASN'T a deliberate screwing or a theft or anything illegal. Do illegal things happen in this game? Sure.

I never said it was anything nefariius, I felt as if the track just blew it off, including me calling stewards and they were "too busy" where if they spoke to me they could explain it. They must be super busy 24 mtp. I started this thread as I felt screwed. My appologies I thought this was a valid discussion as others seem to think its wrong and some right. I bet quite a bit into a race where the gate didn't open and the rest of my pick 3 and 4 were hit. It did not list it in the program, I did not know, are you saying this is fair to me and others who bet this race?

[PaceAdvantage]

I never said it was anything nefariius,Sorry, I guess I took "blatantly screwed" the wrong way.