V.Espinoza"just as good as Secretariat"

[TheEdge07]

California Chrome is "one of the best horses ever" ... and is "just as good as [Secretariat] ... this according to CC's jockey Victor Espinoza.

The legendary jockey was out in NYC yesterday when we asked how Cali Chrome ranks in the pantheon of great racehorses ... and Vic says if it weren't for the hoof injury suffered in the Belmont Stakes, Chrome would be at the top of the list.

"I believe he's as good as [Secretariat] ... but when something goes wrong, then it can't go 100%."

BTW, Victor is AWESOME -- and after the Chrome talk, gave us some pretty interesting tips on how to properly bet the ponies.

Turns out, betting on the horse that took the biggest leak before the race isn't the way to go.



Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2014/06/10/victor-espinoza-california-chrome-jockey-secretariat-video/#ixzz34G1RLDed

Apparently he drank the same koolaid as others.

[Tom]

As good as Big Red......:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
That boy needs some serious help!

btw, did you see that one race Saturday, where they backed the 1 horse out of the gate, he took a huge dump, then they put him back in the gate?
I've seen them dump before, but never seen them come out of the gate first! :D

no, he didn't win.

[jk3521]

As good as Big Red......:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
That boy needs some serious help!


I've seen them dump before, but never seen them come out of the gate first! :D



That horse was very considerate! :D

[samyn on the green]

Big Red had it easy. Faced an ultra weak 6 horse field in the Belmont. Big Red could never stand up to the power of a horse like Tomalist on familiar ground while Tonalist was well rested. Big Red was beat by the likes of Onion. He is so overrated.

[Ocala Mike]

Big Red had it easy. Faced an ultra weak 6 horse field in the Belmont. Big Red could never stand up to the power of a horse like Tomalist on familiar ground while Tonalist was well rested. Big Red was beat by the likes of Onion. He is so overrated.




If this isn't :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ,

then I'm :D :D :D :D

[Stillriledup]

Victor was 1 year old when Secretariat won the TC, and he was living in Mexico, so he's certainly an expert on Secretariat. :rolleyes:


I don't think CC is as good as Secretariat and he's not even as good as Point Given, who might not crack the top 50 all time, so Victor is getting a little carried away, CC's Derby win was a "97" Beyer, so speedwise, its not even debatable that he's not a top 50 all time horse.

[Cratos]

Big Red had it easy. Faced an ultra weak 6 horse field in the Belmont. Big Red could never stand up to the power of a horse like Tomalist on familiar ground while Tonalist was well rested. Big Red was beat by the likes of Onion. He is so overrated.

Let me see, Secretariat set track records in all three of his TC racks and he had it easy?

I don’t how long you have been involved with thoroughbred racing in any capacity and you really shouldn’t say given the contents of your post.

I have been in this game a very long time and I have seen 3 of the greatest racehorses to ever run anyplace and at any time; and Tonalist wasn’t among them (and I like Tonalist).

They were Secretariat, See the Stars, and Dr. Fager.

[thaskalos]

Given the temper shown by the owner...Espinoza is probably just trying to hold on to his mount.

[Stillriledup]

Given the temper shown by the owner...Espinoza is probably just trying to hold on to his mount.

Good call.

After all, how can you fire a guy who says he's riding the next Secretariat?

:D

[DeltaLover]

Espi news one these:


http://themindofagambler.com/straight-jacket.jpg

[AndyC]

Considering that Secretariat is dead I think Espinoza might have a point.

Technically he didn't that CC is as good as Secretariat was.

[Stillriledup]

Considering that Secretariat is dead I think Espinoza might have a point.

Technically he didn't that CC is as good as Secretariat was.

He could have went all the way and said he's better. Why stop at "just as good" :D

[BettinBilly]

Having a mic and camera put in your face and being asked if your mount could have beaten "Secretariat" is totally different than simply stating out of the blue that your horse could have beaten Big Red. I think Espinoza handled the question as well as he could.

And I agree with Espinoza. For Chrome to have an injured foot, and still have run as good as he did was not to shabby. He wasn't making excuses, he was just pointing out that his horse did fairly well under the circumstances as he sees them.

Personally, I don't think any horse could have beaten Secretariat on that day and I don't think it's worth discussing. But if I were asked the same question, I'd probably have answered somewhat like Espinoza did. Tough question to answer.

[luisbe]

California Chrome is "one of the best horses ever" ... and is "just as good as [Secretariat] ... this according to CC's jockey Victor Espinoza.

The legendary jockey was out in NYC yesterday when we asked how Cali Chrome ranks in the pantheon of great racehorses ...



Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2014/06/10/victor-espinoza-california-chrome-jockey-secretariat-video/#ixzz34G1RLDed

Apparently he drank the same koolaid as others.
Legendary Jockey?????? Auch!

[jk3521]

He was trying to answer some dumb questions posed by some a-hole from TMZ who you could tell didn't know the first thing about horse racing and certainly was too young to remember Secretariat , he didn't come out and pronounce the greatness of CC.

Those TMZ reporters are paid to ask leading questions to make the interviewee say something that might sound controversial. Much ado about nothing !

[Big Sal]

It seemed like he did his best to be good-natured and friendly to the guy asking the dumb questions.

He should have just said 'considering Secretariat's been dead for 25 years...'

Asking a jockey to compare two horses who raced over 40 years apart is pretty brutal.

Victor Espinoza is a damn good jockey, and he's admitted during this Triple Crown series that A.) he doesn't go into races with a plan. B.) he says he's not good at reading the form.

I don't think he's the guy you want to be soliciting betting advice off of.

[Stillriledup]

VE is in a no win situation, if someone specifically asks about Secretariat, he has to say "just as good" he wants to keep the mount. If he says "not as good" than he has less of a chance to stay on the horse.

[Big Sal]

VE is in a no win situation, if someone specifically asks about Secretariat, he has to say "just as good" he wants to keep the mount. If he says "not as good" than he has less of a chance to stay on the horse.

Not only that...but throughout the entire history of Horse Racing in this country, jockeys have demonstrated a bias of association.


https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/t31.0-8/10333437_10202239339177168_5673744730892824944_o.j pg

[nijinski]

He's lovestruck with CC .

[DeltaLover]

I think that horses can be compared regardless of the time gap. The more time has passed since a horse was running, the more accurate your impressions should be.

When we talk horses, nobody is going to argue that the crème de la crème belongs to a handful of names like Man o War, Ribot, Nearco, Kelso, Dr Fager, Secretariat, Citation, Seattle Slew and maybe a few more..

These Giants (as Beyer calls them) proved beyond any doubt their superiority and still remain vivid in the memories of horse players...

It is at least hilarious to compare any horse who have not yet beat open company, to the Giants.

Even extremely accomplished horses like Cigar and Curlin are still a notch or two below them; “average” stars of the type of CC or BB or SJ are not even remotely close to the Giants league!

Having said this, I still have to agree with the posters who mentioned about how stupid the questions to Espi had been...

Obviously the interviewer is clueless about horse racing asking ridiculous questions..

Espi had to answer like this, although he knows the truth way better than us.

Anyway for CC believers, there is plenty of time for him and his connections, to prove that he really is a “real star”...

Travers, Gold Cup and BC Classic are coming later this year, so there is plenty of racing, to show to all of us naysayers that we are wrong..

Let's see....

[Dahoss2002]

Victor was 1 year old when Secretariat won the TC, and he was living in Mexico, so he's certainly an expert on Secretariat. :rolleyes:


I don't think CC is as good as Secretariat and he's not even as good as Point Given, who might not crack the top 50 all time, so Victor is getting a little carried away, CC's Derby win was a "97" Beyer, so speedwise, its not even debatable that he's not a top 50 all time horse.


CC is not as good as Big Brown or I'LL Have Another

[NY BRED]

While we are discussing "who is better" I believe brother
Jose would have given CC a way better ride in the Belmont..

[Tom]

Big Red had it easy. Faced an ultra weak 6 horse field in the Belmont. Big Red could never stand up to the power of a horse like Tomalist on familiar ground while Tonalist was well rested. Big Red was beat by the likes of Onion. He is so overrated.

Do you live in Denver?:D

[DeltaLover]

Big Red had it easy. Faced an ultra weak 6 horse field in the Belmont.

Among these ultra weak was a horse called Sham (http://www.shamhorse.com/) ...

[classhandicapper]

IMO it's really difficult to compare horses of different eras because track compositions are different, cushion depths are different, legal and illegal drug use is different (there is evidence that average speed figures for Grade 1 horses have declined since they made steroids illegal in 2008/2009), vet care is different, speed figures have a tendency to drift faster or slower over time because of methodology biases etc...

I think the best you can do is look at the accomplishments of the horses and the accomplishments of the horses they beat along with any replays and bias info you might be able to gather from the internet and witnesses whose opinion you trust.

By that standard, CC is not even in the conversation with Secretariat.

However, I will concede that if you are strictly a "figure guy", he is running in the post steroid era. So it's probably not fair to look at his figures vs. those that came in the steroid era (assuming you trust there was no figure drift - which I don't).

[Shelby]

CC is not as good as Big Brown or I'LL Have Another


I concur.

[Stillriledup]

I guess AP is just as good as CC/Secretariat? :D

[horses4courses]

We'll just never know, will we? ;)

[Some_One]

Well the modern day Secretariat, Frankel was rated 140 by the IHRF and AP's Derby was a 125, I think they can justify another point or two, which would probably put him top of the world for now (Current #1 Able Friend and #3 Solow are due to face off in the Queen Anne) but can't go crazy because the race was a restricted race distance at an usual distance. BC The Classic winner usually gets 126-127 and I think that would be right for AP for now, so he's still 13 pounds behind Frankel.

[theotherside]

overrated omg starting with his 2 year old campaign he won 8 stakes in a row i don't think he felt the whip more than a couple times by the way,he was voted horse of the year as a 2 year old, set the track record in all three triple crown races,the derby record still stands 42 years later the Belmont record was a world record that record at Belmont will probably never be broke,oh and sham who he ran into the ground in the belmont going 109.4 for 6 fur never raced again.then facing the top older horses in the country set the world record in a hand ride in the Marlboro cup 1:45 and 2/5 then went on the grass in the grade one man o war stakes and set the track record defeating older horses,then finished his career at woodbine beating top older horses again on the turf,overrated? are you insane?

[nijinski]

You might want to forgive the jockeys for being high

on the moment .

I'm sure Victor felt euphoric yesterday .

He did go back to the barn to plant a kiss on AP ! :)

[thespaah]

California Chrome is "one of the best horses ever" ... and is "just as good as [Secretariat] ... this according to CC's jockey Victor Espinoza.

The legendary jockey was out in NYC yesterday when we asked how Cali Chrome ranks in the pantheon of great racehorses ... and Vic says if it weren't for the hoof injury suffered in the Belmont Stakes, Chrome would be at the top of the list.

"I believe he's as good as [Secretariat] ... but when something goes wrong, then it can't go 100%."

BTW, Victor is AWESOME -- and after the Chrome talk, gave us some pretty interesting tips on how to properly bet the ponies.

Turns out, betting on the horse that took the biggest leak before the race isn't the way to go.



Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2014/06/10/victor-espinoza-california-chrome-jockey-secretariat-video/#ixzz34G1RLDed

Apparently he drank the same koolaid as others.
As good as Secretariat?.....That's like saying the next super stud NHL player is as good as Wayne Gretzky....Sorry Vic...Despite your excellent riding on AP, you are without knowledge of the great Secretariat.....

[thespaah]

Big Red had it easy. Faced an ultra weak 6 horse field in the Belmont. Big Red could never stand up to the power of a horse like Tomalist on familiar ground while Tonalist was well rested. Big Red was beat by the likes of Onion. He is so overrated.
Well/ We are all entitled to our opinion....
One thing though. We are not entitled to create our own reality.

[thespaah]

Having a mic and camera put in your face and being asked if your mount could have beaten "Secretariat" is totally different than simply stating out of the blue that your horse could have beaten Big Red. I think Espinoza handled the question as well as he could.

And I agree with Espinoza. For Chrome to have an injured foot, and still have run as good as he did was not to shabby. He wasn't making excuses, he was just pointing out that his horse did fairly well under the circumstances as he sees them.

Personally, I don't think any horse could have beaten Secretariat on that day and I don't think it's worth discussing. But if I were asked the same question, I'd probably have answered somewhat like Espinoza did. Tough question to answer.
Then the person who asked that question is an IDIOT.......

[Stillriledup]

Having a mic and camera put in your face and being asked if your mount could have beaten "Secretariat" is totally different than simply stating out of the blue that your horse could have beaten Big Red. I think Espinoza handled the question as well as he could.

And I agree with Espinoza. For Chrome to have an injured foot, and still have run as good as he did was not to shabby. He wasn't making excuses, he was just pointing out that his horse did fairly well under the circumstances as he sees them.

Personally, I don't think any horse could have beaten Secretariat on that day and I don't think it's worth discussing. But if I were asked the same question, I'd probably have answered somewhat like Espinoza did. Tough question to answer.

He could have said "not as good" or " i dont know secretariat so i cant say"

Why is it a tough question to answer?

[letswastemoney]

I'd argue that American Pharoah hasn't proven Secretariat is better or worse. He just hasn't run as much, but they could be as talented as each other.

It's not like Secretariat was invincible. He lost more than once in his 3 year old season.

[chenoa]

There sure has been some nice horses to come out of California the past few years.

[Rex Phinney]

There sure has been some nice horses to come out of California the past few years.

By my count since Santa Anita switched back to dirt California based horses are 3 for 4 in the Derby/ Preakness.

Throw in Bodemeister/ Paynter a few years ago and the performance of Firing Line and Dortmund in this years Derby and things look pretty decent out here.

[appistappis]

As good as Secretariat?.....That's like saying the next super stud NHL player is as good as Wayne Gretzky....Sorry Vic...Despite your excellent riding on AP, you are without knowledge of the great Secretariat.....


this would have made more sense if you said bobby orr.

[thespaah]

this would have made more sense if you said bobby orr.
I'll give ya that....It's a shame Orr's career was so wracked with injuries.

[Dark Horse]

I think that horses can be compared regardless of the time gap. The more time has passed since a horse was running, the more accurate your impressions should be.

That's not how the monkey mind works. The great majority of people identify more strongly with a belief that was introduced to them first than with later beliefs of equal or even better value. Call it the chronology of beliefs. And most people, when presented with a contradicting belief, instead of objectively examining the two side by side, will dig in their heels in defense of the belief that was first presented. The more time passes, the more this practice will convince them of the accuracy of their initial belief.

[DeltaLover]

That's not how the monkey mind works. The great majority of people identify more strongly with a belief that was introduced to them first than with later beliefs of equal or even better value. Call it the chronology of beliefs. And most people, when presented with a contradicting belief, instead of objectively examining the two side by side, will dig in their heels in defense of the belief that was first presented. The more time passes, the more this practice will convince them of the accuracy of their initial belief.


I think that as time passes by and we better understand each horse the better we can realize how he compared to this contemporaries and based on that we can conclude about his greateness

[Redbullsnation]

Secretariat is like the Babe Ruth of horse racing. Can't compare him to CC