BREAKING NEWS!!!!!!!!!

[gracwalk]

Today on GMA, interview with Robin, Mr. Coburn along with his wife apologize for his comment to the connections for Tonalist, California Chrome's fans and to America.

[jk3521]

You gotta give him some credit, usually within seconds after the Triple Crown is lost horse racing is forgotten(again). This has been in the news for 2 days now!

[Valuist]

You gotta give him some credit, usually within seconds after the Triple Crown is lost horse racing is forgotten(again). This has been in the news for 2 days now!

If he had apologized yesterday, it might've meant something. People make many stupid statements in the heat of the moment. He had a chance to apologize yesterday but instead, he goes on ESPN and continues talking garbage. This is nothing more than some advisors finally getting thru to him that he's looking like a dumb ass.

[Greyfox]

Coburn did a tremendous disservice to horse racing in general, the Triple Crown, along with the horses, and connections that beat his steed in the Belmont. He damaged the sport that had treated him so well financially. Apologies were due.

More than anything though, he should look in the mirror and apologize to "HIMSELF."
He's the one who he damaged more than anything.
He let himself down.
A nation of observers will have a hard time forgetting how stupid he looked in making the comments that he did.
Unfortunately, Coburn will likely never again be in a position to repair the perceptions that many of us have of him from his blowhard buffoonery.
It's truly sad that his own ego needs have done such devastation to his self.
Perhaps he'll be a better person at the other side of all this. But we'll likely never know (or even care.)

[Shelby]

Here is the link to the YouTube of the apology
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvcZ4LhZzMg


Someone must have had a big come to Jesus meeting with him. He seemed very sincere and contrite....I just wish he would have done it yesterday.

[onefast99]

He was on Sunday morning on GMA and didn't apologize one bit. He actually used an analogy that the way the Triple Crown is run is similar to him at 6'2" playing basketball against a child in a wheelchair as well as saying you can't just decide to run 2 legs of a tri-athlon you have to run all three. He continues to dig a huge hole for himself and at the end said CC was still Americas horse. Yes he is Mr Coburn but you shouldn't be his spokesman anymore!

[Robert Goren]

Who really gives a rat's ass about what this guy says. It was a slow news day so the media outlet went with it. The shooting in Vegas and the attack on airport in Pakistan shoved it off the air for good.

[mostpost]

Here is the link to the YouTube of the apology
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvcZ4LhZzMg


Someone must have had a big come to Jesus meeting with him. He seemed very sincere and contrite....I just wish he would have done it yesterday.
Or maybe he figured it out on his own. Sometimes it takes a little longer.

You notice this was not a typical political apology where the person apologizing prefaces his apology with "If I offended anyone" or "If I did anything wrong." Coburn flat out said, "I did wrong and I am sorry,"

Good enough for me. If it is not good enough for some, the fault lies with them.

[bks]

No one outside of a few racing fans is going to remember the apology came a day too late.

His first opinion is still idiotic.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Or maybe he figured it out on his own. Sometimes it takes a little longer.

You notice this was not a typical political apology where the person apologizing prefaces his apology with "If I offended anyone" or "If I did anything wrong." Coburn flat out said, "I did wrong and I am sorry,"

Good enough for me. If it is not good enough for some, the fault lies with them.

That's what I was expecting - we didn't get that at all. Well said here Most.

[razorback5]

Seemed sincere enough for me..He did avoid answering the question about "pre-race partying" though.

[098poi]

This is the best line of the whole deal! This was a comment after an article on CNN I think.

"Hay I tried to Google Chrome but the results all tell me the horse is a browser."

[Tom]

Two days too late to try to buy some class.
The guy is a DA and will always be a DA.
I hope he is never heard from again.

[rastajenk]

I think it's fair to consider this horse a viable Breeders Cup contender, so he's not going away soon. I bet he acts very differently the next time he's on a big stage, though.

[Greyfox]

I think it's fair to consider this horse a viable Breeders Cup contender, so he's not going away soon. I bet he acts very differently the next time he's on a big stage, though.

Of interest, I googled, "How many Kentucky Derby and Preakness winners continue to race?"

I did not find an answer.

Stallion fees might loom here.
CC may never race again.

[PaceAdvantage]

Of interest, I googled, "How many Kentucky Derby and Preakness winners continue to race?"

I did not find an answer.

Stallion fees might loom here.
CC may never race again. They have yet to demonstrate that they are the type to baby a horse...so why would they back off and retire now? Unless the horse is seriously injured, he'll be back racing again...

[Greyfox]

They have yet to demonstrate that they are the type to baby a horse...so why would they back off and retire now? Unless the horse is seriously injured, he'll be back racing again...

Yeah, for sure. :rolleyes:

[PaceAdvantage]

Yeah, for sure. :rolleyes:Where has it been demonstrated, in deed or in word, that they will retire this horse now?

He's not lightly raced...and there has never been even a hint that they are thinking of putting him permanently on the shelf...so why do you think differently?

[davew]

Where has it been demonstrated, in deed or in word, that they will retire this horse now?

He's not lightly raced...and there has never been even a hint that they are thinking of putting him permanently on the shelf...so why do you think differently?

Just think if they give him a couple months break, how fresh he could be for Breeders Cup.


If DumbAzz stables only has a mare or 2, do they really need a stud?

[Greyfox]

Where has it been demonstrated, in deed or in word, that they will retire this horse now?

He's not lightly raced...and there has never been even a hint that they are thinking of putting him permanently on the shelf...so why do you think differently?

Why not?

[nijinski]

Well it looks like the wise people got to him. That's all he needed to do in the first place .
Acknowledge your brave horse and that he tried and gave us many thrills Thank the fans that stood by him.
Congratulate the winner and their connections for the his winning effort !

He obviously is just learning the game and the ups and downs that go
with it .
His wife it appears , is the voice of reason between them and Art certainly
has the experience to let him know the ups and downs of this sport . Both
as a trainer and a former jockey .

Sherman I'm sure knew the big picture . They are all in it to win it .
Coburn is still learning .

[PaceAdvantage]

Why not?Just thought you might have some specific reason behind your surprising theory given the two facts I pointed out in my last reply.

[Greyfox]

Just thought you might have some specific reason behind your surprising theory given the two facts I pointed out in my last reply.

I gave the reason. Or did you miss it?

CC may be more valuable as a stud than a racer.
If he breaks his leg racing, millions of future dollars are gone .
What would you do?

[PaceAdvantage]

That's a generic reason that applies every time a horse is going for the triple crown. And certainly you never know. But, CC's modest breeding and losing the Belmont makes that not an attractive option in my opine. The BC Classic is now the long term goal...and for these connections, winning the BC Classic in SoCal has to be high on their wish list.

CC will race again. Of this I have little doubt (barring freak injury)

[Greyfox]

That's a generic reason that applies every time a horse is going for the triple crown. And certainly you never know. But, CC's modest breeding and losing the Belmont makes that not an attractive option in my opine. The BC Classic is now the long term goal...and for these connections, winning the BC Classic in SoCal has to be high on their wish list.

CC will race again. Of this I have little doubt (barring freak injury)

You're likely right.
His pedigree has been questioned by many.
However, Perry Martin, the obvious brains of the Dumbass partnership that owns California Chrome, claims to have carefully researched bloodlines before having this colt foaled.
His research convinced him that California Chrome would have potential.
A check of thoroughbred lines at http://www.pedigreequery.com/california+chrome shows that if you go back a couple of generations there are some pretty solid genetic contributors in his background.
The fact that he won the Kentucky Derby and the Preakness is a feather in the cap of Perry Martin. He's convinced of the royalty in the horse's bloodlines, if no one else is.
Time will tell as to whether or not he runs again.
I suspect that he might be retired for some mysterious injury and sent to the stud farm. We'll see.

[clocker7]

Before Coburn became a volcano, I would have booked that CC would continue racing for 2014, period. Now, a little uncertainty exists. For several reasons.

1. The thrill being gone. How much fun is it going to be going up to an owner's box on race day from now on?
2. CC's injury might serve as a reminder about fragility & how tentative luck is.
3. You have to wonder how Martin is viewing his partnership, and its potential for future aggravation, rather than satisfaction; more downside than upside, maybe?

With the BC being where it is, it might be viewed as an opportunity to stick it to the cowards. So that might overrrule everything. The odds are still in that direction. But retiring CC now would not be that big of a bitter pill to swallow. He won two legs of the TC, increased his value tremendously, and did not shame himself in the Belmont. After all, it's not like he pulled a Big Brown, Sham, or Ride on Curlin in it. History will treat him favorably.

[olddaddy]

The guy lost big bucks and infamy by not getting the TC, it takes awhile to settledown.

[dartman51]

Coburn stated before the Belmont that they had been offered 6 million for Chrome. Maybe he should have sold.

[onefast99]

Coburn stated before the Belmont that they had been offered 6 million for Chrome. Maybe he should have sold.
Was it the same guy who offered $8M for Social Inclusion?:bang:

[Saratoga_Mike]

I gave the reason. Or did you miss it?

CC may be more valuable as a stud than a racer.
If he breaks his leg racing, millions of future dollars are gone .
What would you do?

That's why there's insurance.

Given his breeding and current resume, would he sell for anymore than I'll Have Another?

[Greyfox]

That's why there's insurance.



Good luck on that. Many insurance companies won't touch thoroughbred racers.

I've heard that for those that do the costs are quite prohibitive.

Does anyone on this board know how much it would cost to insure a thoroughbred who can potentially make millions some day in stud fees?

[andtheyreoff]

Of interest, I googled, "How many Kentucky Derby and Preakness winners continue to race?"

I did not find an answer.

Stallion fees might loom here.
CC may never race again.

For the record, out of the last ten horses to enter the gate with a Triple Crown bid on the line, eight of them raced again. Charismatic (who was injured at the Belmont) and Smarty Jones were the exceptions.

Like PA said, unless he's injured, there's little reason why he wouldn't come back and try the Breeders' Cup Classic.

[bcgreg]

I don't know for the high end animals but I have paid 10 to 12% of insured value (per year). Lots of different types of policies and coverages...and all very expensive. But, would you risk NOT insuring an animal that can fetch $50K a pop and 100 pops a year? Do the math.

[Greyfox]

I don't know for the high end animals but I have paid 10 to 12% of insured value (per year). Lots of different types of policies and coverages...and all very expensive. But, would you risk NOT insuring an animal that can fetch $50K a pop and 100 pops a year? Do the math.

Sure I would. That's $5 million a year in stud fees.
But what would that animal be insured for if it continued to race?

[nijinski]

Good luck on that. Many insurance companies won't touch thoroughbred racers.

I've heard that for those that do the costs are quite prohibitive.

Does anyone on this board know how much it would cost to insure a thoroughbred who can potentially make millions some day in stud fees?
LOL I did this 30 or so years ago before the agency left NJ .
I'm told the rates aren't that much higher these days and I find that hard to
believe . The only policy you could get then was mortality , and some offered fertility .
Folks would insure their $100,000 purchase at a rate of 4.875% , So almost $4,900 on the track and at 3.375 % off the track or breeding . We were HBPA endorsed ,so the average was $75,000 value back then .
Anyone who wanted a policy on a cheaper racehorse paid about 5.600 %
to get a policy . You drop your horse low and he breaks down . You
collected only the value they raced at .

The wealthier were luckier . They got package deal rates if they had a farm
full of horses to write .

For the very high value horses , reinsurance came from England at that time , at least for this agency .
I think the mortality insurance is still the one most offered .
The wealthier were luckier . They got package deal rates if they had a farm
full of horses to write .

We had a very nice MD bred horse , we lost his owners as clients after he
won the Preakness .His value went up faster than we could underwrite
with a competitive rate .

So with these millionaire horses , their owners are paying a good deal of
money , so when you see them retire young . There's plenty of economics
involved

[nijinski]

I don't know for the high end animals but I have paid 10 to 12% of insured value (per year). Lots of different types of policies and coverages...and all very expensive. But, would you risk NOT insuring an animal that can fetch $50K a pop and 100 pops a year? Do the math.

What kind of insurance other than mortality did you have ?

[Greyfox]

So with these millionaire horses , their owners are paying a good deal of
money , so when you see them retire young . There's plenty of economics
involved

Thank you.
Yes. That's exactly my point. There are economics involved.
Why would a horse continue to run in G level races when he could earn more in stud fees and have a lower level of risk?
Also his insurance fees while racing might be equal or more than what he might earn in G Level races even if he wins.
Only the Aga Khan, Sheiks, and Bob Lewis types likely have deep enough pockets to ignore the economics.

[MutuelClerk]

I know the high road is to accept his apology. I'll take the road less traveled by.

[Hoofless_Wonder]

You're likely right.
His pedigree has been questioned by many.
However, Perry Martin, the obvious brains of the Dumbass partnership that owns California Chrome, claims to have carefully researched bloodlines before having this colt foaled.
His research convinced him that California Chrome would have potential.
A check of thoroughbred lines at http://www.pedigreequery.com/california+chrome shows that if you go back a couple of generations there are some pretty solid genetic contributors in his background.
The fact that he won the Kentucky Derby and the Preakness is a feather in the cap of Perry Martin. He's convinced of the royalty in the horse's bloodlines, if no one else is.
Time will tell as to whether or not he runs again.
I suspect that he might be retired for some mysterious injury and sent to the stud farm. We'll see.

You go back a couple of generations of damn near any throughbred, and you're going to find some nice horses. Ones you've heard of anyway.

There is a big difference between a horse being bred to be a "useful" runner (money earner) and a horse being bred to be a useful sire or broodmare. I don't pretend to know how to tell the difference when looking at the pedigrees.

But from what I've read, those that doubt his breeding ding California Chrome on both counts. By winning the Derby and the Preakness and four previous races in a row, he's a proven useful runner. Being a useful sire is unknown at this point.

Somewhere I read his stud fee would be $25K if he was retired and didn't win the Belmont. You'd get that fee for a few years before his babies started training, and you found out what he was throwing. Then that fee could dramatically change, one way or the other.

If the horse stays in training and earns several more million, then he banks the dough for racing, and potentially bumps his initial stud up - perhaps doubling it, as well as attracting owners who favor a healthy horse who could stay in training for an extended period.

Tough call. But if I owned him, I'd leave him in training for now and race him in one of the nice fall races for 3 YOs to see how he fares. Then decide what to do....

[Greyfox]

You go back a couple of generations of damn near any throughbred, and you're going to find some nice horses. Ones you've heard of anyway.

There is a big difference between a horse being bred to be a "useful" runner (money earner) and a horse being bred to be a useful sire or broodmare. I don't pretend to know how to tell the difference when looking at the pedigrees.

But from what I've read, those that doubt his breeding ding California Chrome on both counts. By winning the Derby and the Preakness and four previous races in a row, he's a proven useful runner. Being a useful sire is unknown at this point.

Somewhere I read his stud fee would be $25K if he was retired and didn't win the Belmont. You'd get that fee for a few years before his babies started training, and you found out what he was throwing. Then that fee could dramatically change, one way or the other.

If the horse stays in training and earns several more million, then he banks the dough for racing, and potentially bumps his initial stud up - perhaps doubling it, as well as attracting owners who favor a healthy horse who could stay in training for an extended period.

Tough call. But if I owned him, I'd leave him in training for now and race him in one of the nice fall races for 3 YOs to see how he fares. Then decide what to do....

Excellent post.:ThmbUp:
The only differences we have I've highlighted above.
How can California Chrome expect to make several more million racing?

[NJ Stinks]

You gotta give him some credit, usually within seconds after the Triple Crown is lost horse racing is forgotten(again). This has been in the news for 2 days now!

I give him a lot of credit. I loved it when he nailed CD. I loved it when he praised Pimlico. I even liked it when he said it wasn't fair to his horse to have to face fresh horses in the Belmont. Because it wasn't. Even if that's the way it is and has always been.

Coburn, his wife, the Martin's, Art Sherman - there was a "real" people element that just kept adding layers and layers to the California Chrome Triple Crown bid.

Anyway, like you said, JK, Coburn has kept horseracing alive in the national media for a fair amount of time. In the end it's all good for the sport IMO. :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[ILovetheInner]

I'd doubt his value at stud would be exceptional right now. It wasn't there for I'll Have Another, after all, who was a cheap buy but be that as it may came from the female family of blue hen Patelin. He's also not exceptionally well made and by reports a terrible mover, so I would think his mares would need to move him forward versus the other way around, particularly as regards the sales. I would pretty much figure he'd be promptly scooted off by any prominent stud if his first babies weren't exceptional, as the pedigree is not there.

I also think Coburn is totally getting into his persona....Belmont faux pas he is trying to fix ;)....and enjoys campaigning the horse with much romanticism and occasional cosmic numerology. If money offers didn't tempt him off this path pre/during the TC, I am not sure why it would do so now, particularly with the BC at Santa Anita. That and were he to win the Classic, it would solidify his value far more.

[Longshot6977]

If this was mentioned in his GMA interview, I didn't hear it. And if someone else brought it up here or on another thread, I didn't see it. I read as many as I can. If it's a repeat, I apologize and just want to say one thing so I can be done with this Coburn incident. I didn't hear him apologize for saying the comment about them being a bunch of God damn cheaters etc. He apologized for everything except for what I was hoping for. The reason is that some uninformed people, as evidenced by their comments on media sites, still think cheating was going on and the Belmont is unfair etc. Coburn should have addressed this issue to straighten out the casual fan (or lack of fan) who watches the morning shows and chimes in on media sites and only knows what Coburn stated after the race. They still think Tonalist connections cheated and such. I hope I got my thought across correctly.