Formulator 4.0 -- Initial Thoughts

[TravisVOX]

For those that haven't downloaded it, check it out. It's neat, but my thoughts early on are that it provides you with the information, but you've gotta dissect it. And unless you have a cable connection, it'll be slow. And unless you have the time, it's a waste of money. Still, you can see the charts of any horses last three races and then those horses PP's from the race. You can also see a trainers complete list of starts for a ways back and then those horses PP's. Not bad stuff, but expensive...and unless you have time to sit down and analyze a great deal, you're burried in information.

[Marc At DRF]

There's an art to using it. You can spend all day selecting a million categories on the trainer pattern tool, or you can learn to only ask a couple questions at a time to enhance your handicapping. Less is more, often enough.

Sans cable connection and sans fast machine, yep, it's cumbersome. We're working on an update that will help a bit, but it simply is not a great fit if you're on a slow dial up/slow machine.

There's a certain type of handicapper who will love this-- those who are most interested in "dissecting" it. Or those who want to look at the charts more quickly. If you're just looking for a program that cranks out top 3 choices, this is not for you.

Also note the workout pattern component-- you can compare works from today's horses with the trainer's work patterns from similar horses he has run in the past.

[Gekish]

Just installed, but does not run. Microsoft error mess. comes up and shuts dow. Running XpHome.

[Speed Figure]

No problems running on Compaq desktop with XP Home. Can't see myself using it. Just wanted to check it out.

[Buddha]

Originally posted by Gekish
Just installed, but does not run. Microsoft error mess. comes up and shuts dow. Running XpHome.

i know it is stupid to say, but did you restart after installation? sometimes not doing so will cause errors.

as to teh program, i think it is nice, but will take some getting used to. the new features are awesome, and i cant wait to get to learn it some more.

it does take some time, but as marc said, you dont have to do everything it can do, just learn a few things that work for you, and use them. you dont always have to have more.

[Marc At DRF]

You absolutely DO have to restart.

There's some annoying issues with the install involving whether a person was on 3.1 or not, whether they restarted or not, etc. Contact me via e-mail if you're struggling. Most aren't, but I think it's easy to have a problem with it.

[Gekish]

Tried update first, did not work. Uninstalled F3.1 put in F4. When trying to run it. Microsoft error mesg. comes. There seems to be a problem with file Appcompat.txt. I always restart.
P.s. I even cleaned my Registry of all the F3.1 stuff.

[Marc At DRF]

The problem is with uninstalling 3.1.

It's a sh*tty uninstall. It just doesn't uninstall cleanly.

No fault of 4.0's that this is happening, just 3.1 being pesky.

We're going to introduce some sort of "FormulatorEraser" tomorrow to help you pull EVERYTHING out then reinistall from scratch.

[Gekish]

Marc,

Installed it on my laptop which never had F3.1. It works fine. Can't use any of the features with the demo files. Brilliant !!! I have 15 days left on my monthly subscription. Can I get F4 files or do I have to buys those ?

[Tom]

Do you have to uninstall 3.0 or 3.1 first? Will 4.0 run 3.1 files? I thinkn Marc said yes to this once, but that was a while ago. Has anything changed?

[SAL]

Yes, it does run 3.1 files just fine. I uninstalled 3.1 and installed 4.0 without a hitch. I have a broadband connection and a reasonably fast machine, and it seems to be running just fine.

My initial impression is wow! Speaking as a handicapper that uses trainer stats and past charts I must say that I am impressed. Looking foward to playing with it tonight to see what it can do.

[Tom]

Can you still export the data in the same formats as 3.1?
I am always hesitant to download new versions of anything so I will pass on F4 for now, but maybe later on, if it is all 3.1 was.

[Buddha]

Originally posted by Tom
Can you still export the data in the same formats as 3.1?
I am always hesitant to download new versions of anything so I will pass on F4 for now, but maybe later on, if it is all 3.1 was.

yes, you can still export, and if memory serves me right, either marc, or one of the newsletters said that the additional features couldnt be exported, so it would just be the same exports as a 3.1 file would be. i could be wrong, but that is what i recall reading.

[turfandsport]

I wanted to write a review of 4.0 for my column today but wasted 2 hours tryng to get it to work. Called DRF (they said on the website they would have specialists standing by. I was put on hold six times and then finally hung up on). Nice.

The person on the phone, after putting me on hold for the fifth time said she would have to email support to find out what the problem was. Gee, I guess I could have done that and not wasted 10 mins on the phone.

It said I did not have Adobe on my computer even though I do. I got this from support four hours later:

"Even though you may have a proper version of Adobe Acrobat, it is possible that our system is not recognizing it. This would be due to a server upgrade we did several months back. Simply reinstall Adobe Acrobat, then try to install the 4.0 again"

Oh ok, let me start all over again..I did not see anywhere in the download instructions I might need to head over to adobe.com first. ..lol...

Two hours of my day today I won't get back.

Computer geeks. Gotta love 'em. Wish I could shoot 'em.

Michael Dempsey
www.turfnsport.com

[garyoz]

Surprised to read of install problems. Upgraded from 3.1, had zero problems and its working fine. I have a cable modem connection and it works super fast. I'm running XP pro. Clearly superb for plumbing trainer data and integrating charts. Personally, I like hard copy and not working off a computer screen, but that is a personal choice. Doubt I will personally use this format going forward, but I can see how it can be used quite effectively. On the downside I think I spend too much time handicapping now and can see how this could create a blackhole of over-analysis. Highly recommend checking it out.

[WINMANWIN]

Talk about comedy central.unreal is all I can say:rolleyes:
After going nutty trying to download 4.0, as when 1 goes on the website, it leads you to 3.0 and 3.1 formulators:eek: I mean,
how can any engineers not realize, that its a horror show, and very frustrating to find the 4.0 upload.When I hit the 4.0 icon
I would think, I could get the 4.0 formulator. Thats not the case
you only see the 3,0 and 3,1, after some indepth investigation
I found it though.Then to load a sample 4.0 to check out the fancy features, you get the pdf version displayed:o I mean why is the pdf version displayed for the formulator.......I know I'm not the sharpest computer geek, but you gents in tech support and customer service are gonna be mighty busy for quite sometime......................:mad:

[WINMANWIN]

When you want to download the sample 4.0 to test her out,
it instructs 1 to save it to the desktop, which is not proper, whenever I would save formulator, I would go to c drive,drf,
fromulator then save it to the formulator data file.I had a problem moving it from the desktop to formulator module...ALSO if one is persistent to track down the new 4.0 load, you open it and see files you cant do much with.The data is old and not supported, I know they're are sample files, but samples should look like the new product, not unsupported stuff, or old files that dont work............Like I said I'm no computer geek, but the way its been presented, initially
with the flaws I mentioned, It is really an Embarrasement to drf.
I'm sure your gonna refine it, but when one thinks about how it's presented today...you just have to shake your head.........:confused:

[Buddha]

I went to go back to looking at Mountaineers card for friday, and when i went to check the chart for a horse, it is giving me a Formulator 4.0 Features No Longer Available For Expired Race Card.

What the hell does that mean? It is doing it with all the cards as well. Confused, I am going to uninstall and reinstall it and see if it fixes it.

[SAL]

I've been getting that message also. Very disappointing. It's working for the 4/22 cards, but not 4/23.

[Buddha]

Originally posted by SAL
I've been getting that message also. Very disappointing. It's working for the 4/22 cards, but not 4/23.

it also wouldnt work on a 4/24 file of mountaineer. blah. worked earlier today, so i wonder if it is a server error or what.

[JustRalph]

This product connects to the DRF servers while you are using it?

It sounds as if it does. If that is the case.....how are you going to use it on the road? or on the Train or Bus....or in a motel without broadband.....? Or ...how about when you are at the Track or simulcast facility? Does it require connection to the internet to even run? and if it doesn't require it, does it mean many functions won't be available if you are not connected?

Can DRF keep a log of when I handicap and what I look at? I think so.....if you are connecting to their servers I would say they can....probably. That leads to this question.......

Is DRF going to provide this information to anybody? are they going to use it as a marketing tool down the road?

many questions remain........Hello DRF....are you out there?

I haven't seen anything here that the latest version of my current preferred software can't do.......

[WINMANWIN]

I am almost positive, Once you download the data, you dont access drf servers, so thats not an issue......

[TravisVOX]

You do access the servers. It'll in fact warn you if you're downloading a large file.

[andicap]

First of all, any new software product always has a ton of bugs when first introduced -- so you guys should cut DRF a break (BUT THEY SHOULD ISSUE REFUNDS/CREDITS IF FEATURES AREN"T WORKING AS ADVERTISED -- if not forget my first sentence and I'll jump on the bandwagon.)


Second, Ralph, tell me which software can tell you how Allan Jerkens is doing on the turf at 8.5f within the last two months with Jose Santos up? Which software can let you look at PPs of a trainer's winners to see if there is a workout pattern? etc. etc.

I believe there is an anti-DRF bias on this board that is sometimes unfair. Are they perfect? Of course not. Are you, in your business?
What they are trying to do here is admirable -- of course it's only because they now face competition which they never did in the past so I'm not nominating them for sainthood.

Having said that, again, if the DRF does not offer refunds when bugs are preventing people from using the new features as advertised, it has to offer refunds. Yes, DRF will argue, people are still paying the OLD prices so what's the beef? The beef is that people may not have downloaded the $3.75 or $5 files except to try Formulator 4.0. If it doesn't work right, give them a refund or at the least a credit. If not, then I believe the anti-DRF bias is right on.

Myself I haven't tried it yet. My credo on new software is summed up by this old joke:
"At Ford, quality is job 1. At Microsoft, quality is job 1.1"

I'l wait for Form 4.1 which irons out the inevitable bugs.

[WINMANWIN]

Andi what you say I agree with in some respect, but supposedly its been tested and delayed etc.I mean if the product is not
working properly, dont issue it, delay it.....I can understand software bugs and patience, what irks me the most, is the mission trying to find the new 4.0 on the drf.com homepage.
you HIT the 4.0 icon and you get the 3.0 and 3.1 upgrades.only after doing a through investigation, and playing detective, the consumer can find the 4.0 formulator....lol........then when you try and do the sample dowload to check out the new data, thats a total aberration.:rolleyes:

[WINMANWIN]

Originally posted by TravisVOX
You do access the servers. It'll in fact warn you if you're downloading a large file.

Naturally when you download the race card or cards, you are gonna access the servers:D After the card is saved to formulator on your desktop, you wont be accessing the drf servers anymore
because that would always require an internet connection, and would not be advantageous........so I'm thinking I'm right and willing to lay 1 cent to any1's $100.00 bucks.A gambler at heart
and probably a losing wager.......:D

[SAL]

It HAS to access the servers for all the data that is available. The trainer pattern file for someone like Jerry Hollendorfer is going take up over 1mb of space, so the only way to do it is to download it when you need it. Same goes for charts. You can't include that stuff in a regular download. That being said, a large hard drive is necessary to use this program, all that data will use up a lot of space.

[andicap]

Originally posted by WINMANWIN
Andi what you say I agree with in some respect, but supposedly its been tested and delayed etc.I mean if the product is not
working properly, dont issue it, delay it.....I can understand software bugs and patience, what irks me the most, is the mission trying to find the new 4.0 on the drf.com homepage.
you HIT the 4.0 icon and you get the 3.0 and 3.1 upgrades.only after doing a through investigation, and playing detective, the consumer can find the 4.0 formulator....lol........then when you try and do the sample dowload to check out the new data, thats a total aberration.:rolleyes:

Find me ANY new software that does not have bugs in it.
It's the nature of the beast. There are some things you can't catch until they are field tested.
Now I'm sure DRF had some beta tests where they caught 90% of the bugs. Why do you think MS keeps sending updates to me? What are "patches" for?

I still want to know from Mark tho what their policy is on refunds/credits for people experiencing these problems. I have virtually no confidence in their customer service/tech help on the phone having experienced it over the years.

[WINMANWIN]

O.k I ASSUMED IT would be like the 3.1, once you download the
data, no need to access the servers.I would rather take x amount of mins to download whatever than to keep accessing the drf servers.its not conducive, if one doesnt have an internet connection, at the track etc........If it supported a complete download of all info for the race card, 1 could easily delete the info
after its used to free up the harddrive.........btw Its not the 1st time I made a dumb wager, and lost.Also when I spoke with the
drf customer service rep, she obviously told me THE WRONG INFO
as she stipulated, once you download, thats it, similar to 3.1, but I had a feeling she didn't really know..........:o

[Marc At DRF]

Guys--

There are way, way too many questions here for me to answer all at once.

Let me get a couple things out of the way then I'll go back one by one is separate notes.

1) There's a bit of an annoying bug with Formulator 3.1 unistalling-- we'll have an update up within a couple hours to fix it.

2) If you're having ANY problems installing, e-mail me by 5pm with your phone number and I will have someone call you immediately.

Alternately, e-mail formulatorhelp@drf.com with your install problem and phone number and they will call you directly to get it fixed, immediately.

[SAL]

Winman, I believe once you download the trainer pattern file it stays on your hard drive for a number of days. So if you did download the stats for all the trainers you were interested in I'm pretty sure you could access it at the track. Of course all the features that you are used to with v 3.1 are still there.

The only bug I had was the problem Buddha and I had earlier, something that seems to be resolved now.

By the way, if you are using a dialup connection, I think that working with this program might be a little frustrating.

[Marc At DRF]

"Installed it on my laptop which never had F3.1. It works fine. Can't use any of the features with the demo files. Brilliant !!! I have 15 days left on my monthly subscription. Can I get F4 files or do I have to buys those ?"

There is a free sample file that will work here:

http://www.drf.com/formulator/formulator_ad.html

Scroll down to where the download is-- right underneath it is the free sample. It's for Hawthorne for the 24th. We will update it regularly.

"Will 4.0 run 3.1 files?"

yes.

Guys, please read the page at:
http://www.drf.com/formulator

It answers soooo many of the questions you are having. The only change to the export files is the addition of the Tomlinson distance number, at the very end of the file.

"Talk about comedy central.unreal is all I can say
After going nutty trying to download 4.0, as when 1 goes on the website, it leads you to 3.0 and 3.1 formulators"

If anybody is having the problem just hit the refresh button on your computer.

"When you want to download the sample 4.0 to test her out,
it instructs 1 to save it to the desktop, which is not proper"

I disagree with this. There's no reason this shouldn't work from saving and installing via the desktop.

"I went to go back to looking at Mountaineers card for friday, and when i went to check the chart for a horse, it is giving me a Formulator 4.0 Features No Longer Available For Expired Race Card"

There was a bug overnight for about 4 hours that was fixed (it affected all cards, including Mountaineer, etc.).
Here's the usual deal on expired cards-- after a card is run, at 4am EST it "expires" and you can't use the trainer or chart features anymore. The big reason why is somebody could download a single 4.0 file and if the features didn't expire after the card was run, then the user could just use the "basic" file to handicap and refer to the older 4.0 file to use the trainer function. We need people who like the 4.0 features to keep using new 4.0 cards. Sorry, it's a business.

"just a clarification.....
This product connects to the DRF servers while you are using it?"

this is correct. This is currently an online product. Here's how I've been using it. Print out PPs, handicap, then go back online and use the features. There's some limitations in place for certain print functionalities (for example, the "TP PPs" are not printable), but we will probably open that up some in the months to come. You can print from the TP detail page, though.

Also please note that bigger trainer files will be saved within your hard drive, if you prefer (though they're not openable unless you are looking at a new card), but it requires a momentary connection to the internet to re-open them. But not a full re-download.

"Can DRF keep a log of when I handicap and what I look at?"

We're keeping log files on activity, in general, of course.

"Is DRF going to provide this information to anybody?"

No, we have a privacy policy, of course.

"are they going to use it as a marketing tool down the road?"

I'm the marketing guy-- got any good ideas? ;-)
The only way we'll ever market to our EXISTING F4 customers, based on their download history, is perhaps to let them know that there are cheaper subscriptions out there that would better serve their needs.

"I haven't seen anything here that the latest version of my current preferred software can't do......."

Really? Your current software culls stats then allows you to view the PPs that make up the stats? And compare the workouts of today's horses with those relevant runners/running lines from the stats you are comparing to? Wow. Nice piece of software. You're clicking on running lines to access charts, too? Cool. Assuming it's cheaper, I'd stick with what you've got, then.

"Having said that, again, if the DRF does not offer refunds when bugs are preventing people from using the new features as advertised, it has to offer refunds."

Anybody who has paid for anything that isn't working, by all means, we'll fix it so it works then we'll credit your account with at least as much as whatever you bought. C'mon, that's a no-brainer.

"I'l wait for Form 4.1 which irons out the inevitable bugs."

Andicap, that's a bummer. I want you on board, ASAP. Contact me privately and I promise we'll make sure this goes smoothly. You've been fairly critical of DRF in the past-- we need your feedback!

[Marc At DRF]

"By the way, if you are using a dialup connection, I think that working with this program might be a little frustrating."

Personally, I tend to agree with this. If you're on a slow system, you're using it just to click on the charts, I think it's probably worth the time. But the trainer pattern tool is MUCH better on high speed access, with a decent processor.

We are talking about letting people have the choice of pulling either the 2-yr or 5-yr file, instead of jus tthe 5-yr file. It's a good idea, could be implemented in the next few weeks, BUT I STILL don't know if it really will make things all that pleasant for people on dial-up. I mean, it's dial-up. Dial up is just slow, and the bottom line is if you go to pull Scott Lake's file for the last 2 yrs or the last 5 yrs, it's an enormous file either way...

Alternately--
If you're using dial-up you may have more patience than this New Yorker does. In which case, you may use the trainer pattern tool more sparingly and still find it worth your while...

finally, I addressed these issues on the intro page:

Formulator 4.0 and the size of the files

Here's the gist of the technology of Formulator 4.0-don't worry, we'll keep it simple. There's a server set up at DRF.com that is holding an enormous database of past performance information about every horse in every trainer's barn in the United States over the last 5 years, as well as extensive chart data, too. Formulator 4.0 allows you to click on a horse's running line to see its three most recent charts, and you can click on a trainer's name to launch a tool called Trainer Patterns that allows you to create your own set of trainer statistics. We'll explain more on how to use this further down the page, but the main point here is: Some of these files that you will be accessing via the internet are very large. No, not all of them, but, for example, if you click on trainer Scott Lake's name, you'll be pulling up a very unusually large file-over 5 Mb. Again, Lake's file is exceptionally large because he runs so many horses. Most files are less than 1/10th the size of Lake's.

Formulator 4.0 and your computer's speed

Because of the size of the Trainer Pattern files, it is suggested that your computer is operating with at least a 448 Mhz Processor, and at least 256 MB of Memory. These are the minimums, but it's preferable if you have a more robust computer - a 731 Mhz Processor and 512 MB Memory is recommended, and it is also preferable if you are using the internet via some sort of high speed access-cable modem or DSL. If you are using dial-up access to the internet instead, Formulator 4.0 will still work, but these are big files that you'll be accessing, and it can take some time.

We've found, if you have high speed/cable modem/DSL access, that the largest Formulator trainer files download within 60-90 seconds. Smaller files take a few seconds. But if you're on a slower, older model computer and/or are using a 56k or slower modem, these files can take much longer to download-5 minutes or longer for the largest files.

A system for saving large files and saving time, too

Formulator 4.0 has a bit of a system in place to make these larger files easier for you to access. Under the "file" dropdown menu within Formulator there is a category called "Set-Up Defaults". This category has several options that pertain to "trainer pattern files." Among them is an option that allows you to save trainer pattern files for a number of days-however long you'd like-but let's say you set it for 14 days. You can also choose how big the file has to be before you will go with this "save" option. This means that you may wait 5 minutes to download Scott Lake's Trainer Pattern file the first time, but the file is saved on your machine for the next 14 days. This way, you don't have to go through the download process for Lake for the next couple of weeks, whenever you click on his name to get trainer stats. At the end of the two weeks, a click of Lake's name will mean you'll have to download his file again. But once again, once the file is saved, it'll be clear sailing for another 14 days.

[Buddha]

Originally posted by Marc At DRF

"I went to go back to looking at Mountaineers card for friday, and when i went to check the chart for a horse, it is giving me a Formulator 4.0 Features No Longer Available For Expired Race Card"

There was a bug overnight for about 4 hours that was fixed (it affected all cards, including Mountaineer, etc.).
Here's the usual deal on expired cards-- after a card is run, at 4am EST it "expires" and you can't use the trainer or chart features anymore. The big reason why is somebody could download a single 4.0 file and if the features didn't expire after the card was run, then the user could just use the "basic" file to handicap and refer to the older 4.0 file to use the trainer function. We need people who like the 4.0 features to keep using new 4.0 cards. Sorry, it's a business.


so what you are telling us is that after 4am of the night/morning after the races are run, the trainer and chart functions are useless? i think that is just a bit quick. what if you were capping a card and wanted to see what yesterdays was like, and went to clikc on it and you cant'. I think that is just a bit \quick, like maybe it could be accessed for 2-3 days or something

[Marc At DRF]

Buddha--

Let's say you buy a card for Aqueduct for tomorrow, on F4. It's got 5 yrs of trainer data to pull. You use it. Great.

Now the next day you buy a card for Aqueduct for Sunday. Instead of buying an f4 card, you just buy a Fbasic card, knowing that all you'll need to do is go back to the F4 card to pull all the handicapping stats. This is no good for us. We gotta pay the rent.

Moreover, with tracks pulling 48 hours out, someone can STILL buy an F4 card for thursday and an Fbasic for friday and use both cards for the trainer functionality.

We have to limit it. Sorry. But you can still go back for several hours after the races are run and use the functionality.

Longterm change-- with new e-commerce, we can potentially offer our longterm subscribers the ability to use old cards, since they're already made the longterm commitment to F4 files.

But with current e-commerce of ours, not possible.

[WINMANWIN]

Mark your responses are very courteous and your an asset to drf.
I think I'm gonna just go with the print edition for awhile, talk
about over analyzing trainer data, It's a guide and possibly advantageous, but as we know with gambling, its not written in stone.For those who want to print out drf formulator, and not deal with going online constantly and viewing stats that need drf servers, its not to practical, but in the age of simulcasting and web based betting, Its the future of the game:eek:
good luck with the product, and I'm gonna send MR. Christ an e-mail to advise him of your FINE WORK, helping others adjusting
to 4.0...:)

[B. Comin']

Heee-Heeee-Heeee, this thread reads like a Keystone Cop movie looks.

All I can say is, I'll stick with ITS.

[WJ47]

I had no trouble with my download, and I installed it about a half hour after I got the email (and I had Formulator 3 on my system). I wonder why some had problems and some didn't! Formulator 4 is relatively quick for me, but I'm on a cable modem, but my computer isn't that new (about 2 years old) so it isn't the fastest machine.

I think it looks great so far! I have an unlimited subscription so I'm planning on downloading a bunch of cards for the weekend and fooling around with it a little. I'm kind of software impaired so it takes me a while to figure out new things! I really like the charts and the fact that you can see the past performances of the other competitors. This could be useful in determining key races and the competition the horse has been facing.

I'm really excited about it. I can't believe how much better the Form is now than when I started handicapping 18 years ago!

[Tom]

Originally posted by turfandsport
I wanted to write a review of 4.0 for my column today but wasted 2 hours tryng to get it to work....Two hours of my day today I won't get back.

Computer geeks. Gotta love 'em. Wish I could shoot 'em.

Michael Dempsey
www.turfnsport.com

I think you could not have written a better review! <G>
As for your copmmnets on DRF customer help-I couldn't agree more DRF sucs period. They haave no clue and never have, I am now 7 weeks behind in my subscription to Sim Weekly. I either wna tmy issues or my money back-simple request. DRF has, in my opinion stolen money from me. I am going to small calims court if for nothing more than to create some negative publicity for these morons.

Ralph- Good point about DRF now have a "window" into your web activites. Does anyone really trut DRF to have the integrity not to abuse this? Not me. They have proven themselves to me as unreliable.

Refunds for what we now are told are time-limited extra cost files? This whole thing smell rotten to me. Sell a file that doesn't work then throw out the ole MS pitch-"we are working on it-keep your shirt on." then the file expires. Rather quickly.
Heh, heh,heh.....some things never change.
Death
Taxes
DRF will screw it up
:D

[turfandsport]

My problem is not really with DRF. I am sure they were assured by the computer geeks that there were no bugs in the system and everything would go smoothly. That is what they always say.

When all is said and done 4.0 will probably be a very good product.

Just for someone with deadlines to deal with, spinning wheels can be very frustrating! I should have known better and waited a few days to try it.

I did manage to get it on one of my computers late last night but was so far behind in my work I have not had a chance to play with it yet.

Michael Dempsey
www.turfnsport.com

[andicap]

Mark,
You said I've been "critical" of the DRF. That is unfair because I have been a bigger back of the Form on this board than a lot of people. I have been critical when I see fit, but I have also defended the DRF (as in this thread) and praised them when they made good moves.
For example I was critical of the trainer column in the Simulast Weekly but then gave the DRF props when it realized its error and greatly improved the column.

I am not also a backer of some of the Form writers/handicappers, but I just call them when I see them. I think Steve Klein is an excellent handicapper for example.

I am a tremendous back of the DRF overall and have also praised the Beyer figures.

Cheers

[garyoz]

Used Formulator 4.0 for HOL last night. Great experience and awesome functions. It definitely moved me into at least one profitable play (tossing a chalk in a pick 3). It does take time to integrate it into your handicapping. Great innovations by the DRF. Don't know why there are so many whiners on this thread, but I guess that's beaten down horseplayers for you.

[WINMANWIN]

Gary, I'm glad you enjoy the product, and the 1st day it helped you immensely, some of us just pointed out the problems,difficulities associated with the initial drf 4.0 software
release.My main complaint was when you access the drf.com webiste, and hit the 4.0 icon thats highlighted all over the website
you get 3.0 and 3.1 downloads. Beats me, why they make you do detective work, and have to go into BUY SUBSCRIPTIONS to find the new 4.0 software........I didn't think that was in the best interests for customers. I dont appreciate your name calling
BEATEN DOWN PLAYERS........You could have just posted your remarks about the product, and not RIDICULED OTHERS !
:rolleyes:http://drf.com/ WHEN YOU HIT THE 4.0 LOGO, YOU ONLY SEE THE 3.0 AND 3.1 DOWNLOADS.......LOL..........:mad:

[Marc At DRF]

I just wrote a massive response and it got eaten because of a cookies issue on my home computer.

Super-abbreviated version--

Andicap-- I wrote "fairly critical" as a compliment-- I think you are fair in your compliments and criticisms of us and I'd love to see your take on F4.

Winmanwin:
"My main complaint was when you access the drf.com webiste, and hit the 4.0 icon thats highlighted all over the website
you get 3.0 and 3.1 downloads"

This just isn't true. You need to hit the refresh (f5) button on your computer or something.

Garyoz: The "whining" is completely fair if they've tried to download it and can't. We've got a bug affecting less than 5% of users, and those people are highly, justifiably annoyed. DRF, with me leading the marketing on this project, have been promoting F4 as a major breakthrough for 6 months and this 5% can't accesss it! They're ticked off, and they have a right a to be. We're STILL fixing this unbelievably annoying bug, and once it's gone, hopefully it's a thing of the past and maybe then we can look back and laugh.

Tom: If you need a refund on Simo Weekly, I'll get you one on Monday. I think I've told you this in the past. We've researched it and believe it's highly likely the problem is at your post office-- please tell me if you've ever gone over there and talked to them about it. We've made major changes in our customer service division in the last 4 months, and things are finally starting to get better.

That said, Michael D, I e-mailed you and haven't heard back. It sounds like you had a bad experience just as the bug was being discovered, so I'd like to help you out. Please e-mail me at mattenb@drf.com with your phone number so we can straighten it out.

[Marc At DRF]

whoops, Michael, just saw your note.

[WINMANWIN]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Marc At DRF
[B]I just wrote a massive response and it got eaten because of a cookies issue on my home computer.

Mark my apologies, I was accessing drf.com with my aol browser and even with a refresh it was still showing the 3.0 and 3.1 downloads........:eek: :confused: I fired up explorer, and what do you know, or should I say, I know......:o UNREAL is all I can say,
somewhat like todays LADDER race results at AQUEDUCT :mad:

[Tom]

Marc,
Thank you.

I sent you a PM.

[JustRalph]

Originally posted by andicap
Second, Ralph, tell me which software can tell you how Allan Jerkens is doing on the turf at 8.5f within the last two months with Jose Santos up? Which software can let you look at PPs of a trainer's winners to see if there is a workout pattern? etc. etc.

Andi.....It is called Equisim 4.0

I still haven't heard an answer to my questions about online connections and the data collected from same.......

Does it work offline? etc....... I know you are busy Marc. I would still like the info.........when you get to it.

[WINMANWIN]

Second, Ralph, tell me which software can tell you how Allan Jerkens is doing on the turf at 8.5f within the last two months with Jose Santos up? Which software can let you look at PPs of a trainer's winners to see if there is a workout pattern? etc. etc.

Any good info on USKE AND JERKINS ON THE WEEDS......They ruined me today 3 of 4, in the 4 pays zero bucks...............

8th Race, Next Post 4:55 Off: 4:23

1 1/16 Miles. (Turf) 3 Year Olds And Up Stakes Purse: $111,400
# Horse Jockey Weight Win Place Show
5 Chilly Rooster Uske S 113 66.50 25.80 11.80
3 Union Place Castellano J J 113 43.20 18.80
2 Slew Valley Chavez J F 119 4.30
Times in 5ths: :233 :481 1:124 1:362 1:422
Times in 100ths: :23.60 :48.34 1:12.82 1:36.59 1:42.47

Scratched: Black Silk (GB) and Bowman's Band
Also ran: Charge, Remind, Rogue Agent, Steadfast and True and Toccet
Winning Trainer: Jerkens H Allen - Owner: Hobeau Farm
$2 Exacta (5-3) Paid $1,109.00
$2 Trifecta (5-3-2) Paid $4,774.00