possible pace less belmont?

[boys at tosconova]

what happens if it is?

not sure any horse wants the front. i don't think chrome will deviate from his style and take the bull by the horns.

samraat looks like he won't last and i'm not sure he wants the front either.

the general isn't leaving..and if he does, he shouldn't last or hit the board anyway.

tonalist is the logical front end candidate..but it's not a given from the outside, but if he goes, and he should, he could put this field asleep..

[elhelmete]

I wouldn't want to make a bet about who gets first call. IMHO could be several of the 11.

[Rex Phinney]

The pace predictions for the Derby and Preakness where off by 600 miles, this will be the same. IMO someone we least expect rolls the dice and makes the lead, I see no reason a horse like Samraat doesn't go to the lead and see what happens. Some of these have distance questions anyway, why not get on the lead and try to let horse get in a rhythm.

There is danger for a horse like Chrome or Tonalist to try the lead because no one will let them have it easy, others in the field are the ones who would be afforded a lead easy enough to steal the race.

[SecretAgentMan]

Espinoza will play it by ear & if no one wants the lead, Chrome will gladly take it & never look back........

[boys at tosconova]

The pace predictions for the Derby and Preakness where off by 600 miles, this will be the same. IMO someone we least expect rolls the dice and makes the lead, I see no reason a horse like Samraat doesn't go to the lead and see what happens. Some of these have distance questions anyway, why not get on the lead and try to let horse get in a rhythm.

There is danger for a horse like Chrome or Tonalist to try the lead because no one will let them have it easy, others in the field are the ones who would be afforded a lead easy enough to steal the race.


sammrat didn't have a bad trip in the derby and he flattened. can't see how the extra distance will help him. seems like he wants to run the same race as chrome. this horse will gladly let another horse by him...sammrat will be trying to conserve, and hopefully hit the board.....once tonalist crosses over, and puts the field to sleep, if saamrat has any horse he' could be in great shape..but even w/ a perfect trip i'm not sure he'll be around

[pandy]

I wouldn't be surprised if Ride On Curlin goes to the lead. He has plenty of speed and Johnny V. gets on for the first time.

[boys at tosconova]

Espinoza will play it by ear & if no one wants the lead, Chrome will gladly take it & never look back........

no he won't..he'll run evenly like everyone else, and run his race..and his best race isn't wire to wire, in a short period of time between races, even though he still might be able to do it....they won't desormeaux the horse

[boys at tosconova]

I wouldn't be surprised if Ride On Curlin goes to the lead. He has plenty of speed and Johnny V. gets on for the first time.

very doubtful.. the trainer is hack and he's schooled the horse to calm down and come from behind..that was the plan in the preakness..and that's what it will be again

[SecretAgentMan]

no he won't..he'll run evenly like everyone else, and run his race..and his best race isn't wire to wire, in a short period of time between races, even though he still might be able to do it....they won't desormeaux the horse


He could have wired the field in the derby & Preakness........doesn't matter who presses him or who tries to stick with him, eventually they fold like cheap suits & Chrome continues on his way w/o breaking a sweat........good luck trying to beat him!

[boys at tosconova]

He could have wired the field in the derby & Preakness........doesn't matter who presses him or who tries to stick with him, eventually they fold like cheap suits & Chrome continues on his way w/o breaking a sweat........good luck trying to beat him!

i'm not saying he's going to lose. i;m just mapping the race out..

but since you want to change the topic...chrome is stretching out once gain, and did only win by <2L diminishing..and did so against a horse that maybe 3 horses in this race are better than..and all three are fresh

[depalma113]

Chrome will roll this field if there is no pace. He will take the lead and win by double digits if he's allowed to lull them to sleep. There is nothing in this field that can separate like him. He will be gone in the blink of an eye.

[boys at tosconova]

Chrome will roll this field if there is no pace. He will take the lead and win by double digits if he's allowed to lull them to sleep. There is nothing in this field that can separate like him. He will be gone in the blink of an eye.

chrome doesn't want the lead though. he's been a push button horse and responded and won by stalking the speed. why would their camp compromise this by pushing the horse harder than he's used to after 2 long/big and grueling races...

if tonalist gets to the lead easily, which is very likely...chrome might be in trouble....he might be in trouble because of what i said above and also because chrome might never have seen a horse of this caliber out in front of him before

[depalma113]

If the race is pace less, Chrome will be on the lead. The horse's best Beyer was produced when he went wire to wire. Just because he likes to sit off the pace doesn't mean he will do it just to allow some horse to go to a slow lead. He will be in front if they try it.

Can't see a Tapit getting a mile and a quarter let alone a mile and a half. Granted Careless Jewell beat slow horses to get a mile and a quarter and I guess if the Belmont field was as slow, he could do it.

[pandy]

very doubtful.. the trainer is hack and he's schooled the horse to calm down and come from behind..that was the plan in the preakness..and that's what it will be again


I don't know if you tell a veteran Hall of Fame jockey like Johnny V. what to do. If he wants to try to wire the field, he will. But, you may be right, it's hard to say and as we've seen time and time again, it's not that easy to predict which horses will leave. All I know is, Ride On Curlin has plenty of early speed if they decide to use it.

[SecretAgentMan]

LoL@ the caliber of Tonalist.......I hope you're kidding with that statement.

Who has Tonalist beat for you to say the caliber of quality of this horse? Have you watched any interviews where Art Sherman was asked if no one goes to the lead, what will Espinoza do on Chrome & Art responded with, Chrome can run from.any scenario they throw at him & if no one goes to the lead, they will gladly take it & go from there.

Yes, they would rather have a target for Chrome but it doesn't matter in this race........if Espinoza feels the front is the easiest spot for him cause no one wants the lead, then do be it. Espinoza was on War Emblem when everyone thought there would be a lot of Fron pace setters & when the gates opened, no one wanted the lead & the rest is history........

[boys at tosconova]

LoL@ the caliber of Tonalist.......I hope you're kidding with that statement.

.......

i'm serious..chrome has passed a bunch of crap horses that have been on the lead...not one is as good tonalist prolly is

[ArlJim78]

"the caliber of tonalist" :lol:
i can't stop laughing.

[boys at tosconova]

"the caliber of tonalist" :lol:
i can't stop laughing.

i don;t see what's so funny...tonalist is an improving horse and you don;t know how good he is..

he beat wicked in his 3rd lifetime start while wicked had over 5 races on his card and was raced at 2...

tell me..what good horses had the lead that chrome passed ......the answer is NONE

[depalma113]

he beat wicked in his 3rd lifetime start while wicked had over 5 races on his card and was raced at 2...

Wicked Strong had no chance in any race he ran at Gulfstream. I wouldn't read anything into any horse finishing ahead of him down there.

[Tom]

Hard to pass them when you are so far in front of them.

[depalma113]

tell me..what good horses had the lead that chrome passed ......the answer is NONE

Name one horse that has passed California Chrome in 2014.

[boys at tosconova]

Hard to pass them when you are so far in front of them.

what a stupid response to something very pertinent and a question that nobody but myself has posed

[boys at tosconova]

Name one horse that has passed California Chrome in 2014.

lol...what do you want to even argue for..you can't answer my question, and it;s an important one...and you come back w/ this obvious statement w/ no reference to what i'm talking about

[SecretAgentMan]

Tonalist went wire to wire on a sloppy track in a 7 horse field.......has he wired the field on a fast dry track? NO.......now the question is will he bolt for the lead from the outside 11 post?

By the time Tonalist jumps out & tries to get over for position, Chrome will be in position & might be in the lead waiting for someone to go by him like the derby to take the lead. Gonna be interesting to see what Tonalist can do from that post.......

[boys at tosconova]

Wicked Strong had no chance in any race he ran at Gulfstream. I wouldn't read anything into any horse finishing ahead of him down there.


tonalist still beat him.....yet you want to discredit him and credit wicked....

[boys at tosconova]

Tonalist went wire to wire on a sloppy track in a 7 horse field.......has he wired the field on a fast dry track? NO.......now the question is will he bolt for the lead from the outside 11 post?

By the time Tonalist jumps out & tries to get over for position, Chrome will be in position & might be in the lead waiting for someone to go by him like the derby to take the lead. Gonna be interesting to see what Tonalist can do from that post.......


if he doesn't bolt for the lead expect to see another social inclusion type of race...this outfit is more astute that manny and company

[depalma113]

lol...what do you want to even argue for..you can't answer my question, and it;s an important one...and you come back w/ this obvious statement w/ no reference to what i'm talking about

I most certainly can answer your question, but whatever horse I bring up, you will tell me it is not as good as Tonalist.

The fact is Chitu is a Graded stakes winner going a mile and an eighth and did so as impressively as Tonalist. Calfornia Chrome rolled by him. Of course your retort will be he is not as a good as Tonalist because you are under some belief that a horse that has exactly one win in graded company on a sloppy track in a pace less race is suddenly in the same class as a three time Grade One winner.

[depalma113]

tonalist still beat him.....yet you want to discredit him and credit wicked....

Please enlighten me with any closer that actually won a high class allowance or a graded stakes going two turns at Gulfstream this year.

[boys at tosconova]

for tonalist going wire to wire might never be any easier. there just won't be any pace, or anybidy that wants it.

tonalist could be on an easy lead w/ slow fractions w/ chrome a couple lengths back..this is a a pretty solid blueprint of the race.....chrome doesn;t make his move until the turn, and if the clock is slow he tonalist might pull away.

tonalist could win this race by open lengths if things set up for him,...and this race analysis i'm presenting to use shows it's clearly possible

[depalma113]

for tonalist going wire to wire might never be any easier. there just won't be any pace, or anybidy that wants it.

tonalist could be on an easy lead w/ slow fractions w/ chrome a couple lengths back..this is a a pretty solid blueprint of the race.....chrome doesn;t make his move until the turn, and if the clock is slow he tonalist might pull away.

tonalist could win this race by open lengths if things set up for him,...and this race analysis i'm presenting to use shows it's clearly possible

What you are trying to present is that Espinoza is an idiot. No horse is going to steal the Belmont in front of Chrome.

[boys at tosconova]

Please enlighten me with any closer that actually won a high class allowance or a graded stakes going two turns at Gulfstream this year.


i know GP is speed favoring and that only helps wicked away from it..but wicked is going to be coming from behind once again in the belmont..and could be coming from behind in slow fractions...if it is slow...he'll never reach 2nd..let alone 1st

[Tom]

what a stupid response to something very pertinent and a question that nobody but myself has posed

Your premise called for me to dumb down my response.

The answer to your question is who has passed CC? Are you going to ignore that pertinent question twice now? I see you dodged it once already.

[boys at tosconova]

What you are trying to present is that Espinoza is an idiot. No horse is going to steal the Belmont in front of Chrome.


you don't know that..

the last thing a jock or the trainer of the horse wants to do in this day and age is move to early and jeopardize your chances...right now chrome's races are the status quo, so i see no reason to get cute and think he's seabiscuit or secretariat...+ remember 3 races in 5 weeks.

and leading up to this race you want to compare chitu to tonalist???..at this present time...it's a awful comp....as you don;t know how good tonalist is..but everyone knew chitu the dodger was slower than bengie molina

[boys at tosconova]

Your premise called for me to dumb down my response.

The answer to your question is who has passed CC? Are you going to ignore that pertinent question twice now? I see you dodged it once already.


good question tom,..why don;t you start a thread on it. i'm sure you'll get some rivoting responses

[Rex Phinney]

for tonalist going wire to wire might never be any easier. there just won't be any pace, or anybidy that wants it.

tonalist could be on an easy lead w/ slow fractions w/ chrome a couple lengths back..this is a a pretty solid blueprint of the race.....chrome doesn;t make his move until the turn, and if the clock is slow he tonalist might pull away.

tonalist could win this race by open lengths if things set up for him,...and this race analysis i'm presenting to use shows it's clearly possible

I told you, no one is going to let Tonalist or chrome get an easy lead. If either of those two go to the lead they will be pressed.

Tonalist is in REALLY deep here, he has never been to this end of the pool.

The thought that the best jockeys in the world are going to let Tonalist have an easy lead in a 1.5 million dollar race is pretty funny

[boys at tosconova]

I told you, no one is going to let Tonalist or chrome get an easy lead. If either of those two go to the lead they will be pressed.

Tonalist is in REALLY deep here, he has never been to this end of the pool.

The thought that the best jockeys in the world are going to let Tonalist have an easy lead in a 1.5 million dollar race is pretty funny

you're thowing out a blanket statement not defining on how their going to stop it.,..or bettr yet.....whos' going to stop it