Phil Mickelson probed for insider trading

[Robert Goren]

http://online.wsj.com/articles/fbi-sec-probe-trading-of-carl-icahn-billy-walters-phil-mickelson-1401492772

Federal investigators are pursuing a major insider-trading probe involving finance, gambling and sports, examining the trading of investor Carl Icahn, golfer Phil Mickelson and Las Vegas bettor William "Billy" Walters.

Billy Walters is known for his involvement in the Computer Group which used a computer to pick football and basketball games in the early 1980s. He is an interesting character and well worth the time to do a Google search on him.

[Shemp Howard]

A golfer, a gambler, and a wolf of Wall Street walk into bar.................

[ManU918]

A close friend of mine who is an agent on the PGA tour told me years ago that Phil is the biggest gambler on tour and his practice rounds are played for more than first place pays of whatever tournament they're preparing for.... So if this is true it doesn't surprise me one bit.

[TexasDolly]

A close friend of mine who is an agent on the PGA tour told me years ago that Phil is the biggest gambler on tour and his practice rounds are played for more than first place pays of whatever tournament they're preparing for.... So if this is true it doesn't surprise me one bit.

Who would fade that kind of money ?
TD

[tucker6]

Who would fade that kind of money ?
TD
Billy Walters

[Robert Goren]

Who would fade that kind of money ?
TDThe original Texas Dolly would have when he was younger. He did in fact if you adjust for inflation.

[tucker6]

hmm...

"According to the Journal, Icahn and Walters have a past friendship. Mickelson and Walters, meanwhile, play golf together, and on occasion Walters has suggested stocks for Mickelson to consider buying, the newspaper reported, citing a person familiar with their relationship. Icahn says he doesn't know Mickelson."

http://espn.go.com/golf/story/_/id/11011778/phil-mickelson-says-cooperating-trading-probe

[dirty moose]

I don't understand insider trading...

[MONEY]

I don't understand insider trading...
It's easy, if you do it you go to jail, but it is perfectly legal for elected officials and their staff to engage in.

[BettinBilly]

Local news coverage at "The Memorial Tournament" today. His statement no matter what questions were thrown at him;

"I've done nothing wrong, I'm cooperating with the investigation, and will continue to cooperate, and I can say nothing more."

[Tom]

Nixon said the same thing.

[Marshall Bennett]

Nixon said the same thing.:lol:

[whodoyoulike]

Probed is a funny use of the word. I thought it was about something different. The WSJ link required a subscription access any way around it?

[Robert Goren]

Probed is a funny use of the word. I thought it was about something different. The WSJ link required a subscription access any way around it?Strange, I don't have a subscription. I accessed it from a google search. I will try to remember not to link the WSJ in the future.

[GameTheory]

It's easy, if you do it you go to jail, but it is perfectly legal for elected officials and their staff to engage in.Not anymore, although last month they quietly reversed much of the law from the previous year that made it so. (Insider trading remains illegal for Congress, but it is now tougher to discover/enforce it.)

[Robert Goren]

Not anymore, although last month they quietly reversed much of the law from the previous year that made it so. (Insider trading remains illegal for Congress, but it is now tougher to discover/enforce it.)Insider trader activity by members of Congress will be discovered the same way it is discovered when members of the public engage in it. When somebody rats on them.

[TexasDolly]

The original Texas Dolly would have when he was younger. He did in fact if you adjust for inflation.

Are you saying that Dolly did in fact back the players in a practice round for as much money as first place paid ? Or ,are you saying that Dolly played in big matches ?
Manu918 was referring to practice rounds played before a tournament as I read it.
Dolly played in big matches with other gamblers but those big matches between gamblers didn't involve the players in the practice rounds of a golf tournament.
TD

[Robert Goren]

Are you saying that Dolly did in fact back the players in a practice round for as much money as first place paid ? Or ,are you saying that Dolly played in big matches ?
Manu918 was referring to practice rounds played before a tournament as I read it.
Dolly played in big matches with other gamblers but those big matches between gamblers didn't involve the players in the practice rounds of a golf tournament.
TDTexas Dolly played in big money matches. It doesn't matter where you play if you have a lot of money on the line in my book.

[reckless]

Local news coverage at "The Memorial Tournament" today. His statement no matter what questions were thrown at him;

"I've done nothing wrong, I'm cooperating with the investigation, and will continue to cooperate, and I can say nothing more."

But did he point his finger into the camera and say:

"I don't know (slight pause) ... that investor (slight pause) ... Mister Icahn."

[Robert Goren]

Could this explain why Phil has played so poorly lately. It is never easy when the cops are looking into your affairs.

[tucker6]

This really is not about Icahn per se. Yes, he may have been the leak with regard to the Clorox deal, but maybe not. A few people on the Icahn side likely knew what was going down. The other series of fortunate trades involved Dean Foods, which Icahn was not involved in whatsoever. Both of those sets of trades seems to involve Walters as the rain maker, and Mickelson as the beneficiary. Walters appears to have gotten his info for the two sets of trades from two different sources, which is probably why Icahn hasn't been contacted by the FBI or SEC. So what we have here is the FBI pressuring Mickelson to give up his friend Walters. Mickelson is likely holding out for immunity from prosecution. One way or another they'll find out the truth, and if Phil isn't cooperative or if he lies at all, he's toast.

[Valuist]

With Billy Walters, it kind of reminds me of Sammy Sosa.

"Sammy, do you, or have you ever taken steroids? No, man. Never. Its Flintstones vitamins. Then in 2003 he hits a ball off the trademark, the bat shatters and cork is flying everywhere. This was likely the last straw for the steroid deniers with Sosa.

So, it is unreasonable to think that IF Billy Walters was involved in insider trading, would it be too much to think he could've possibly been involved in point shaving?

[tucker6]

I don't know what Walters is capable of, but this matter clearly shows that Mickelson is hanging with the wrong people (heavily involved gamblers). People get on sports players for hanging around people they shouldn't. Mickelson should have to answer for why he's hanging around with Walters so much. The guy has history.

[TexasDolly]

Texas Dolly played in big money matches. It doesn't matter where you play if you have a lot of money on the line in my book.

May be Robert, but you quoted my statement which was in reply to Manu918 in which he stated Phil played in practice rounds for more money than the first place prize for the tournament. Just the fact that Dolly played in big money matches doesn't mean that
Phil got faded in a big bet practice rounds.

[Robert Goren]

May be Robert, but you quoted my statement which was in reply to Manu918 in which he stated Phil played in practice rounds for more money than the first place prize for the tournament. Just the fact that Dolly played in big money matches doesn't mean that
Phil got faded in a big bet practice rounds. I have no idea if Phil "faded" for that kind of money in practice rounds, but it would not surprise me if he and other golfers did. You asked who would fade for that kind of money. I answered "Texas Dolly" would.

[TexasDolly]

I have no idea if Phil "faded" for that kind of money in practice rounds, but it would not surprise me if he and other golfers did. You asked who would fade for that kind of money. I answered "Texas Dolly" would.

May be a question of semantics as Dolly,Walters etc COULD have but I don't think they WOULD have as there was way too big of a chance the fix would have been in. So again, I don't think that bets that size were ever made regardless of the agents comments.

[Robert Goren]

May be a question of semantics as Dolly,Walters etc COULD have but I don't think they WOULD have as there was way too big of a chance the fix would have been in. So again, I don't think that bets that size were ever made regardless of the agents comments.I am assuming they were betting on themselves.

[tucker6]

I am assuming they were betting on themselves.
Is that you Pete?

[TexasDolly]

I am assuming they were betting on themselves.

To me private games and private bets are a different matter. Not the practice rounds preceding the tournament comment made by the PGA agent and relayed to us by Manu918. See post # 3.

[ManU918]

When I made my comment, I was saying for example that Phil plays someone like Dustin Johnson for a million or so in a practice round...

[DJofSD]

When I made my comment, I was saying for example that Phil plays someone like Dustin Johnson for a million or so in a practice round...
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/jun/02/mickelson-walters-icahn-fbi-sec-stocks-probe/
As members of the Rancho Santa Fe Golf Club, pro golfer Phil Mickelson and gambler Billy Walters occasionally meet early on Sunday mornings, caddies in tow, for what observers say are matches whose stakes are more than $5 per side.

Walters told “60 Minutes” in 2011 that he once made $1 million betting during a golf round and has won $400,000 on a single hole.

[ManU918]

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/jun/02/mickelson-walters-icahn-fbi-sec-stocks-probe/

I'm surprised Billy Walters even plays him for $5.... He's supposed to be "Smart Money".

[mountainman]

I like Phil. A lot. But his demeanor and expression make me think he's guilty.

[DJofSD]

I like Phil. A lot. But his demeanor and expression make me think he's guilty.
Demeanor and expression -- when did you see him (on TV) that led you to make that statement? Was it when they asked him about it during the presser at the last tournament or at some other time after the Memorial was over?

[mountainman]

Demeanor and expression -- when did you see him (on TV) that led you to make that statement? Was it when they asked him about it during the presser at the last tournament or at some other time after the Memorial was over?

Clips shown on golf channel..I think the most recent ones. Not the look of a man expecting to be exonerated.

[Tape Reader]

I like Phil. A lot. But his demeanor and expression make me think he's guilty.

If he gets “community service” I sure hope it’s at my Club.

[DJofSD]

In the clubhouse with a 67.

Focused on Pinehurst, building that mo-mo for a career grand slam.

[Robert Goren]

I'm surprised Billy Walters even plays him for $5.... He's supposed to be "Smart Money".If Golf they have this thing called a handicap.

[DJofSD]

If Golf they have this thing called a handicap.
Oh, I'm sure in those "little" contests, indexes are not even considered. If anything Phil might give some strokes but the real contest is more about force of will and egos -- whom can intimidate whom.

[Robert Goren]

Oh, I'm sure in those "little" contests, indexes are not even considered. If anything Phil might give some strokes but the real contest is more about force of will and egos -- whom can intimidate whom. There was a guy in college who had my number playing Gin Rummy for small stakes. I am still not convinced he was better than me at the game. There is little written about one on one gambling and the effects that "ego power" has in it. I think it would be a fascinating topic.

[mountainman]

If Golf they have this thing called a handicap.

Golf digest advises high handicappers to not wager with better players. Lower handicap players, they contend, aren't just superior, but more consistent and more often shoot close to their best potential. According to the article, the player conceding strokes will cover the handicap about 80% of the time.

A separate GD piece alluding to a specific money game between a pro and three scratch players also refuted the notion that handicaps and concessions truly equalize golfers. The pro, it was stated, regularly fleeced the scratch players by taking them on single-handed and outscoring their "best ball." I found that astonishing.

[DJofSD]

Golf digest advises high handicappers to not wager with better players. Lower handicap players, they contend, aren't just superior, but more consistent and more often shoot close to their best potential. According to the article, the player conceding strokes will cover the handicap about 80% of the time.

A separate GD piece alluding to a specific money game between a pro and three scratch players also refuted the notion that handicaps and concessions truly equalize golfers. The pro, it was stated, regularly fleeced the scratch players by taking them on single-handed and outscoring their "best ball." I found that astonishing.
Yes, I saw the note in last month's GD. And, slowly working through Mark Broadie's book where he uses the comparisons based upon a mix of amateurs and pros, tee shot v. approach, and, best-ball v. worse-ball, it is evident the difference in score is more than just a difference in handicaps.

Your right, MM.