Can't connect to DRF

[highnote]

Is anyone having trouble connecting to DRF's website now -- 9:26pm eastern time.

I've been trying for an hour or so. Maybe their servers are down?

They're always pretty slow anyway, but tonight I can't even connect.

I can connect to other sites.

[Bullet Plane]

Can't connect either. They must be having mx problems again...

[proximity]

it would almost save time anymore to just post when we can connect (and print). ;)

[Track Phantom]

It's been down for over 2.5 hours. Good stuff.

[HuggingTheRail]

they are just updating their "share this on myspace" icons...

[Stillriledup]

It was down about 7:45 eastern and still not back?

[Tara73]

Using Brisnet tonight tired of waiting.

[highnote]

1:11am -- still not up. That's over 5 hours.

[EMD4ME]

What a joke. Off tomorrow, can't access formulator. Very annoying.

[sammy the sage]

8:18 am e.s.t....the following is PURE speculation...

just have server problems...most likely...or

wonder if they filed for bankruptcy...would've hit the news???...not likely...or

decided to charge for everything...this is possible...or...

going back to mostly free content...doubt this one...

[FocusWiz]

Yeah.

Second most searched site on www.websitedown.info

This is posted on their facebook page about an hour ago:

We are experiencing technical difficulties with drf.com. Our team is working to address the issue, and we'll keep you informed.

[BlueChip@DRF]

Yeah.

Second most searched site on www.websitedown.info

This is posted on their facebook page about an hour ago:

We are experiencing technical difficulties with drf.com. Our team is working to address the issue, and we'll keep you informed.

As opposed to keeping us misinformed when there is access to the site?

[Steve 'StatMan']

Maybe they are branching out into Health Care Insurance.

[FantasticDan]

They tweeted this:

A power issue at DRF data center blew core switches on our servers. IT team has been working through night to fix. Stay tuned, and thanks

Our IT staff is still working to address issues. Thanks for your patience. We'll alert you as soon as http://drf.com is back online

[garyscpa]

They tweeted this:

Quote:
A power issue at DRF data center blew core switches on our servers. IT team has been working through night to fix. Stay tuned, and thanks

Our IT staff is still working to address issues. Thanks for your patience. We'll alert you as soon as http://drf.com is back online



So they didn't pay the electric bill.

[highnote]

Have they ever heard of redundant servers?

Maybe they will consider using redundancy now.

[Tom]

Maybe they should consider using redundant servers.

[bello]

Poor performance by DRF....Agree on redundancy....WTF. Also they sent out their daily newsletter with dead links to their sight.

THIS WAS AFTER THEY ALREADY NEW THE SIGHT WAS DOWN!

Not a word in the newsletter about the outage.

[GaryG]

Apparently the fed govt has taken over drf. I love the formulator, but this is just about it for me.

[stringmail]

DRF Bets is also down which makes sense as you want your betting platform down if you can't provide any PPs.

I wonder if there are any other means to get PPs or place bets. :rolleyes:

Their network may have been configured by the Larry, Moe and Curly's network design company.

[bello]

http://brisnet.com/ is an alternative for PPs.

Wondering if the print version will not be published.

Also curious what affect this will have on overall handle for the day.

[BombsAway Bob]

Yeah.

Second most searched site on www.websitedown.info

This is posted on their facebook page about an hour ago:

We are experiencing technical difficulties with drf.com. Our team is working to address the issue, and we'll keep you informed.

Go Daddy must've heard, i was just re-directed to their site
when i punched in www.DRF.com,
saying "DRF.com" domain is available for purchase! (true)

[jwlaff]

Want to split the $9.99 and sell it back to them?

[Stillriledup]

Still no DRF? :bang:

[TheEdge07]

1/20 formulator down on Belmont day.

[Stillriledup]

1/20 formulator down on Belmont day.

:D

You're being kind, prob closer to 1/100.

[The Hawk]

Maybe they should consider using redundant servers.

This went over everyone's head but was still brilliant.

[garyscpa]

This went over everyone's head but was still brilliant.

I don't get it. Can you tell me again?

[KingChas]

Daily Racing Form News

Daily Racing Form experienced a massive power outage at its data center overnight and is currently working to resolve all technical difficulties, including customers' ability to access drf.com and past performances.

We will be posting all news to DRF Live, until further notice.

We regret any inconvenience this has caused.

[Tom]

This went over everyone's head but was still brilliant.

TY ;)

[Augenj]

Daily Racing Form News

Daily Racing Form experienced a massive power outage at its data center overnight and is currently working to resolve all technical difficulties, including customers' ability to access drf.com and past performances.

We will be posting all news to DRF Live, until further notice.

We regret any inconvenience this has caused.
Not trying to pile on but I guess having a backup generator is too costly? During a power outage the batteries at my former company powered the data center while the generator kicked in and charged them. Nothing went down. Even your laptop runs on a battery until the power comes back on. I don't know their situation so I'll shut up.

[highnote]

Not trying to pile on but I guess having a backup generator is too costly? During a power outage the batteries at my former company powered the data center while the generator kicked in and charged them. Nothing went down. Even your laptop runs on a battery until the power comes back on. I don't know their situation so I'll shut up.


It's not a big deal. The internet is a fad. The future is in the hard copy version. :D

[DJofSD]

Not trying to pile on but I guess having a backup generator is too costly? During a power outage the batteries at my former company powered the data center while the generator kicked in and charged them. Nothing went down. Even your laptop runs on a battery until the power comes back on. I don't know their situation so I'll shut up.
It could very well be something other than a lack of power.

I know about a data center failure that was due to a room being flooded. The room was where the grid feed came into the building then was distributed to the different power conditions and PDUs. It happened on a weekend and it was about 24 hours before the water utility was able to fix their problem, the room cleared of water and the necessary repairs and replacement of the damaged power equipment was made. We had the data center power restored a couple of hours after the power company put us back on the grid. Altogether, from the time the burst pipes flooded the room and caused the power outage to the time the data center had been recovered, it was somewhere close to 36 hours.

[highnote]

Maybe they should consider using redundant servers.

I agree with Tom...

Maybe they should consider using redundant servers.

[Track Phantom]

I really wonder how this could happen. They charge a fortune for their information, monopolize the market and they leave themselves vulnerable to something like this?

Very odd.

[Overlay]

Latest e-mail I received:

Alert: DRF.com is Currently Unavailable

We apologize for the inconvenience, but we're experiencing some technical difficulties which are causing DRF.com to be unavailable at this time.

Unfortunately, this issue affects access to past performances and our wagering service, DRF Bets, as well.

Our technical team is working around the clock, but will likely not have a resolution before tomorrow. We will update you as we receive more information.

In the meantime, we have redirected the website to our live news feed, DRF Live!, where we'll be posting news and analysis all day long.

[BlueChip@DRF]

I agree with Tom...

Maybe they should consider using redundant servers.

Or redundant power supply. Or even a secondary (backup) site located in another part of the country that the primary would failover to in case of situations like these.

[Augenj]

Or redundant power supply. Or even a secondary (backup) site located in another part of the country that the primary would failover to in case of situations like these.
We called those "hot sites" but they come with a price. But if you're running a business like this, up time is critical.

[Track Phantom]

This won't be up before Saturday.

[therussmeister]

I really wonder how this could happen. They charge a fortune for their information, monopolize the market and they leave themselves vulnerable to something like this?

Very odd.
Monopolize the market? The only thing I use them for is their charts, and obviously I can get that from at least two other sites.

[FocusWiz]

We had a data center with power coming from two separate power grids entering two opposite corners of the building. Every outlet box had outlets powered from each grid. Power from either source would be sufficient to run the entire center. Communication lines were set up similarly with main and backup lines running out two different sides of the data center. Back up UPSes could power each cabinet for about an hour until power was restored or the generators were powered up.

Not cheap, but it never failed completely. I imagine if the building were destroyed, we would have gone to our backup site. At the backup site, we were guaranteed a minimum number of servers. We could have more if other companies were not similarly interrupted, since they would not be using the facility. However, the minimum would be invoked if a massive outage affected multiple companies/facilities.

I think companies look at price tags a lot more closely now and assume they can deal with the lost revenue from an outage better than the cost of preventing it.

[therussmeister]

This won't be up before Saturday.
Belmont Saturday? :lol:

[JohnGalt1]

I logged on and got all the info I need.

What?

You guys and gals don't have a telegraph?

.. -- . - .. ---

Their new address in case you can't find it.

[highnote]

DRF should be sending out · · · – – – · · ·

[Stillriledup]

So, does this affect hard copies of DRF, or just the online stuff?

By the way, how are people betting tonight's races at Mountaineer and CT, by osmosis?

[letswastemoney]

So, does this affect hard copies of DRF, or just the online stuff?

By the way, how are people betting tonight's races at Mountaineer and CT, by osmosis?
Are Beyers that important? BRIS is $1 and TimeformUS is free on TVG!

[TheEdge07]

I wish it wouldve happen on Belmont Day..learn the hard way

[Stillriledup]

Are Beyers that important? BRIS is $1 and TimeformUS is free on TVG!

When i bet or follow tracks i'm not doing a ton of work on, the Beyers do help because i know "what they mean" in the context of certain classes and certain horses.

Thanks for the info.

[Hoofless_Wonder]

Main site still not back up. I'm being redirected to live.drf.com, which doesn't have much content.

I work in IT as a storage consultant, specifically in backup and recovery, D/R and archiving.

From what I'm seeing within the industry, outages like this are the wave of the future. A lot of pinheads out there cutting back on labor, hardware, consulting, etc., until they have a major outage like this that will motivate them to spend the money to design and implement a proper solution. For a lot of smaller companies, they won't be able to survive it.

Can you imagine what this would have done to DRF's business had this outage occurred on the morning of May 2nd? Heads should roll for this, but chances are the guilty party is as likely to work in the accounting department of the company as in the IT department.....

[bello]

Yep, and get ready for another price increase to support the move to a REAL off site data center(s) with back up power and redundancy. Which is where DRF should have already been.

There is truly no excuse for this. An entire industry relies on their output. Power outage is a poor excuse for a catastrophic failure.

I don't doubt that a bunch of propeller heads and data entry clerks are going through paper DRF PP's and entering/coding the data back into the system right now. No telling how much data disappeared the way these guys apparently are running their business.

[highnote]

Ed Bain should be promoting the hell out of his past performances:

http://edbain.com/

I wonder if handle is down across all racetracks since DRF's website has been down?

[ultracapper]

This went over everyone's head but was still brilliant.
Not everyone's. It was quite dry for a general crowd.

[ultracapper]

And still no go at drf.

Damn!!

[Shelby]

Wow, what ever happened must have been massively bad.

[zippychippy]

Power outage at data center damaged equipment. Restoring everything.

[DJofSD]

Power outage at data center damaged equipment. Restoring everything.
Is that a guess or do you know that to be the case?

[Tom]

They are re-evaluating all the Beyer figures for wind speed.
Be done Friday.

[FocusWiz]

Power outage at data center damaged equipment. Restoring everything.If this is true, then there is a remarkable lack of preparedness on their part.

For a company whose primary product is data, they should have at least two data centers, one currently live and one for contingency. Data should be somehow replicated between the two sites so that there is minimal "restoring" to be done at the contingency site to bring it live. Most such companies would have a plan to failover to the backup site within 6-12 hours. In such a case, an outage this long would come from the failure of management to make a sound decision to go to their Disaster Recovery Plan rather than a technical problem. Realistically, technical issues could cause a problem like this to happen if one site was in a state of flux (relocation, upgrade, repair), but no rational company in this industry would schedule that during the month of May.

You make this sound like my friend down the street who runs her business on a 10-year-old XT computer with no antimalware or surge protection, backups that she has never attempted to restore (and which she would not know how to if she needed to), and no UPS to allow a controlled equipment shutdown.

I have been told in the past that publishing companies are the worst when it comes to technology and disaster recovery, but even though the data is from Equibase, DRF should know that they reap revenues from enhancing and supplying this information to their customers.

Seriously, I would like to understand how totally unprepared they were for this contingency. It probably would make a good Masters thesis for an IT major.

[DJofSD]

If this is true, then there is a remarkable lack of preparedness on their part.

For a company whose primary product is data, they should have at least two data centers, one currently live and one for contingency. Data should be somehow replicated between the two sites so that there is minimal "restoring" to be done at the contingency site to bring it live. Most such companies would have a plan to failover to the backup site within 6-12 hours. In such a case, an outage this long would come from the failure of management to make a sound decision to go to their Disaster Recovery Plan rather than a technical problem. Realistically, technical issues could cause a problem like this to happen if one site was in a state of flux (relocation, upgrade, repair), but no rational company in this industry would schedule that during the month of May.

You make this sound like my friend down the street who runs her business on a 10-year-old XT computer with no antimalware or surge protection, backups that she has never attempted to restore (and which she would not know how to if she needed to), and no UPS to allow a controlled equipment shutdown.

I have been told in the past that publishing companies are the worst when it comes to technology and disaster recovery, but even though the data is from Equibase, DRF should know that they reap revenues from enhancing and supplying this information to their customers.

Seriously, I would like to understand how totally unprepared they were for this contingency. It probably would make a good Masters thesis for an IT major.
Fail over should be instantaneous.

[FocusWiz]

As an aside, I am amazed at the lack of external communication from DRF. In my former roles, I was required to keep our clients apprised of the situation round-the-clock in situations like this regardless of whether or not they were reading or even opening the communication I sent. I would give status at conference calls where no one dialed in or send emails out at 3AM while people were sleeping (except me).

The fact that their communication seems to follow (basically) a 9-5 schedule, shows how unprofessional they are and how unimportant they consider their internet customers to be.

[grimm7]

Just bought printed edition for Friday. Put together poorly. Horses have no numbers or odds. Looks like combination of DRF and DRF program.

[bello]

Just bought printed edition for Friday. Put together poorly. Horses have no numbers or odds. Looks like combination of DRF and DRF program.

Not a good sign.....Hope the data is real.

[mowens33]

Sad state of affaires at DRF when your website is down for 2 days and counting!!
If there capable of designing formulator why can't they fix there web site?

[devilsbag]

Not a good sign.....Hope the data is real.

Excited to see that EArcaro has five mounts at Belmont today.

[stringmail]

Tweets should be sent out thanking DRF for their continued support of the CDI boycott :p

[TheEdge07]

TimeformUS has made huge strides in adding features to there PPS..I was informed replays will be added by this summer.Start evolving folks,tape cassettes are no longer here,timeformUS is the IPad of PPS..time to move

Why are HAndicappers still f#%$^ing with Formulator?
Has anyone heard any bitching about TimeformUS on big days?

[Redhawk55]

I don't think anyone else mentioned this. I was able to get DRF pp through Equibase for todays CT races.
Might be a temporary relief for those of us who have gotten used to DRF PP's. I looked over Timeform and Brisnet today, however I like the simplicity of the DRF forms.

[Track Phantom]

As an aside, I am amazed at the lack of external communication from DRF. In my former roles, I was required to keep our clients apprised of the situation round-the-clock in situations like this regardless of whether or not they were reading or even opening the communication I sent. I would give status at conference calls where no one dialed in or send emails out at 3AM while people were sleeping (except me).

The fact that their communication seems to follow (basically) a 9-5 schedule, shows how unprofessional they are and how unimportant they consider their internet customers to be.

I've noticed this, too. No updates at all from 5PM ET to 9AM ET, then a few of the canned responses. Clearly, they aren't overly concerned with losing their customer base.

I'll tell you what, I accessed a few Brisnet PP's and it wasn't too bad. Problem is Formulator has so much valuable data. If it weren't for that, I'd be on Brisnet already.

Don't be surprised when DRF is still down going into Memorial Day. This is feeling like a catastrophic situation.

[highnote]

What day is Gulfstream's mandatory payout on the Rainbow 6?

[Shelby]

What day is Gulfstream's mandatory payout on the Rainbow 6?


Monday--Memorial Day.

[netbet]

What day is Gulfstream's mandatory payout on the Rainbow 6?

Monday May 26th (Memorial Day).

[highnote]

Monday May 26th (Memorial Day).


Thanks. If DRF is not back online that could make for fewer bettors in the pool. A bigger payout potentially for those who do bet.

[Stillriledup]

Check back at DRF.com (bumps you to live.drf.com)

There are some PPs available for free on there.

[TurfRuler]

Message from DRF

Get All Thursday & Friday PPs for Free!

Thank you for your patience while we resolve DRF.com technical issues.

We are currently devoting all resources to resolving this issue and hope to

have access restored as quickly as possible.

In the meantime, we are providing FREE access to all PPs for today's and

tomorrow's races.

Live.DRF.com

[Tom]

for all tracks for Thirsday and Friday.

When is that?

[Stillriledup]

When is that?

:D
Wow.

[DJofSD]

When is that?
I'm Thirsday every day. Some days it's slaked with beer, other days wine but on the golf course just plain ol' H2O.

[EMD4ME]

Message from DRF

Get All Thursday & Friday PPs for Free!

Thank you for your patience while we resolve DRF.com technical issues.

We are currently devoting all resources to resolving this issue and hope to

have access restored as quickly as possible.

In the meantime, we are providing FREE access to all PPs for today's and

tomorrow's races.

Live.DRF.com


No offense but that is GARBAGE FOR ME. I have 6 years of notes stored in my formulator. Betting with any racing form / equibase / timeform / whatever is like betting BLIND for me. None of MY detailed trip notes/race dynamics/gallop out info/bias notes etc.

[EMD4ME]

I love it when they email me and say "we'll give you a free week for your inconvenience ". I just laugh and write back "a free week of something I can't use, chee how nice of you".

[edmond1]

Message from DRF

Get All Thursday & Friday PPs for Free!

Thank you for your patience while we resolve DRF.com technical issues.

We are currently devoting all resources to resolving this issue and hope to

have access restored as quickly as possible.

In the meantime, we are providing FREE access to all PPs for today's and

tomorrow's races.

Live.DRF.com

Friday's links not working........

[JustRalph]

This went over everyone's head but was still brilliant.

I did a double take ( just read this thread) but I busted out laughing when I saw it was Tom :lol:

[Tom]

No offense but that is GARBAGE FOR ME. I have 6 years of notes stored in my formulator. Betting with any racing form / equibase / timeform / whatever is like betting BLIND for me. None of MY detailed trip notes/race dynamics/gallop out info/bias notes etc.

Look at the bright side - NYRA moved all the good stuff out of this weekend. :D

[highnote]

It looks like the free past performances are on Amazon servers.

Maybe DRF are going to hire a vendor to handle the storage and maintenance of their data?

[Hoofless_Wonder]

It's all about the $$$. To implement a high availability, multi-site architecture is not cheap, though DRF is finding out now it would have been money well spent. Cloud vendors spout off on how "easy", cheap and safe their products are, but the vulnerabilities are still there. The latest fiasco:

http://chronicle.com/blogs/wiredcampus/hazards-of-the-cloud-data-storage-services-crash-sets-back-researchers/52571


I wonder how many Formulator users are going to go pick another solution? Or, if it allows you to back up your notes, how many will start doing that now....

[Stillriledup]

It's all about the $$$. To implement a high availability, multi-site architecture is not cheap, though DRF is finding out now it would have been money well spent. Cloud vendors spout off on how "easy", cheap and safe their products are, but the vulnerabilities are still there. The latest fiasco:

http://chronicle.com/blogs/wiredcampus/hazards-of-the-cloud-data-storage-services-crash-sets-back-researchers/52571


I wonder how many Formulator users are going to go pick another solution? Or, if it allows you to back up your notes, how many will start doing that now....

You think everyone with Formulator lost all their notes for good?

[grimm7]

Starting to become a joke. 3 days and a power outage cannot be fixed. This is not a third world country. Just wondering if DRF has other problems like financial. Hope not? Been using the DRF for 42 years to handicap races. Maybe time for a change. What else out there is good and on par with DRF.

[FocusWiz]

A company who entices you to use their online applications has a responsibility for your data. However, like DRF, most such firms are fairly quiet about how they plan for disaster and what their data protection and recovery plans are. I would never expect Formulator users to suffer a complete loss of data, but I would never expect a robust data center to be unavailable for 2½ days.

We all need to be careful when relying on online applications like Formulator, BetMix, TimeFormUS, or our ADWs. Individually, our internet connections may not be as reliable as we would want and we have little or no information on how prepared these firms are. We vote with our pocketbooks and generally push these vendors to have the most competitive pricing and/or the best rebates. It is only during an outage that we tend to focus on backup and recovery.

This is pure speculation, but recently the error when connecting to their actual servers has changed from a 404-Not Found error to a 403-Forbidden error. That may indicate that they are internally testing their servers and have actually made some progress in their recovery.

[DJofSD]

Come on people, power outage? Really? I guess some one just tripped over the extension cord and they are all running around trying to figure out what's wrong.

2 1/2 days could fit into their plan for an acceptable amount of time being down. Every business is different. Back in the 1980's when I worked for an S & L, it was well understood if we lost the data center for more than 5 days, we'd be out of business. That was then, now a days, I doubt even a small financial institution could be down for more than a couple without going belly up.

[Track Phantom]

Maybe it's a grand plan to limit players data for the big GP pick 6 on Monday, leaving only DRF with detailed information and a better shot at it. :) Obviously kidding.

[DJofSD]

It's all about the $$$. To implement a high availability, multi-site architecture is not cheap, though DRF is finding out now it would have been money well spent. Cloud vendors spout off on how "easy", cheap and safe their products are, but the vulnerabilities are still there. The latest fiasco:

http://chronicle.com/blogs/wiredcampus/hazards-of-the-cloud-data-storage-services-crash-sets-back-researchers/52571


I wonder how many Formulator users are going to go pick another solution? Or, if it allows you to back up your notes, how many will start doing that now....
The link provided an interesting read. Thanks.

I found the following to be very interesting:
We did have a multiple backup strategy in place using proprietary software. It has been very challenging finding software to handle this job at the scales of data we are working with. Unfortunately the software we chose to use corrupted occasional backups. In our testing we did not encounter an issue, but during the event the full backups needed to restore were unrecoverable.

After reading the above quotation, I'd say Dedoose is not ready for prime time.

[PhantomOnTour]

I am still amazed that more folks don't use BRIS' PP Generator program. It has improved my game tremendously, and added a great degree of organization...and it's FREE!
Data files are $1 and the program is downloaded to your own computer, thus none of the web based app problems that are rampant at DRF.

You can save your notes and add all kinds of personal data into the past performances.
Yes, I know the thing is over 15yrs old, but it still does all that I need. Only wish BRIS would improve on this or release a newer version, but I believe the guy who wrote the program (John Marrone) is no longer with BRIS.

Sadly, this program will become un-usable with newer systems, and will soon die if not updated.

PP GENERATOR !!!

[Track Phantom]

It was mentioned on Steve Byk's show that there is a chance everything will be back restored by early afternoon today.

[highnote]

Got an email at 9:30am today from timeformus that you can get unlimited pps for the next 72 hours for 99 cents.

Why 99 cents and not free?

I might consider using them if I could get free access to them. For me it's all about the hassle. If I am going to switch data providers then I want it to be as frictionless as possible.

[SandyW]

I am still amazed that more folks don't use BRIS' PP Generator program. It has improved my game tremendously, and added a great degree of organization...and it's FREE!
Data files are $1 and the program is downloaded to your own computer, thus none of the web based app problems that are rampant at DRF.

You can save your notes and add all kinds of personal data into the past performances.
Yes, I know the thing is over 15yrs old, but it still does all that I need. Only wish BRIS would improve on this or release a newer version, but I believe the guy who wrote the program (John Marrone) is no longer with BRIS.

Sadly, this program will become un-usable with newer systems, and will soon die if not updated.

PP GENERATOR !!!

Could never get it to work with Windows 7 with 64bit.

Great product owned by a non customer friendly company called CDI.

BRIS (CDI) refuses to update their software.

[SandyW]

Got an email at 9:30am today from timeformus that you can get unlimited pps for the next 72 hours for 99 cents.

Why 99 cents and not free?

I might consider using them if I could get free access to them. For me it's all about the hassle. If I am going to switch data providers then I want it to be as frictionless as possible.

To get your credit card on file.

[highnote]

To get your credit card on file.


I know. Everyone wants to get their hands in my wallet.

It is a stupid gimmick. Do they want people to try their product or not? Now they've just pissed me off. It's bad enough that they would probably require my email address so they can send me more spam to my junk email folder.

Maybe they don't need new customers?

[highnote]

Could never get it to work with Windows 7 with 64bit.

Great product owned by a non customer friendly company called CDI.

BRIS (CDI) refuses to update their software.


The main reason I don't use BRIS is because CD owns them.

For a technology company BRIS have always been a little behind the curve.

I used to buy their comma-delimited past performances back in the early 1990s. I loaded them into database software I wrote that allowed me to call up a horse's lifetime past performances. At the time I was probably one of the few people who could see all of a horse's races. DRF only showed 10 races at the time and didn't have a digital product. My software gave me a little edge.

I tried to sell them the software or at least get them to make some of their own to do the same thing. I think I talked to Harry Broadbent. He wasn't interested because there seemed to be a general fear in the industry of people amassing a bunch of racing data and building databases. They didn't mind if you bought a data file and loaded it into a handicapping program like AODDS, but they were probably afraid people would archive it and re-sell it.

U.K. data providers had been selling data for years and offered some really nice software that you could build very complex queries with -- like what is the ROI of trainer Joe Bloggs with first time starters on Saturday at Wolverhampton in 6 furlong races.

Formulator allows the user to view lifetime pps, but it wasn't available until at least 10 years after I wrote my software and at least 15 and maybe 20 years after the U.K. had this.

But that's typical of the racing industry. Look at the antiquated tote system. And DRF has been offline for over 2 days!

This is what happens when too much power is concentrated. Innovation slows down.

[Grits]

I know. Everyone wants to get their hands in my wallet.

It is a stupid gimmick. Do they want people to try their product or not? Now they've just pissed me off. It's bad enough that they would probably require my email address so they can send me more spam to my junk email folder.

Maybe they don't need new customers?

I'm going to ask you a simple question.

Do you work for FREE?

If not. What the hell makes you think those at TFUS want to?

They fully explained the promotion, yet, now you're pissed off. If you're this cheap, you lose. Not them. They won't fold without your .99.

They don't send spam emails either. On days leading up to and on big weekends, they'll send a preview. This isn't excessive. But your bitching is.

[Grits]

And his name isn't Harry Broadbent. It's Happy Broadbent.

[highnote]

I'm going to ask you a simple question.

Do you work for FREE?

No. But I work smart.

If not. What the hell makes you think those at TFUS want to?

Just because I do not like their promotion does not make me think they want to work for free. I assume that a promotion that allows potential customers to use their product will result in new customers that will bring in more money so that they can generate more work and more money which results in high salaries and more employees.

They fully explained the promotion, yet, now you're pissed off. If you're this cheap, you lose. Not them. They won't fold without your .99.

I'm not pissed off. I just think it's a stupid promotion. How many times does DRF lose the ability to sell their online product? Here is a rare opportunity for tfus to get new customers and instead they are probing potential customers' personal details and asking customers pay them for doing it! I just can't imagine anyone stupid enough to do that. But maybe there are people who don't mind paying to get probed.


They don't send spam emails either. On days leading up to and on big weekends, they'll send a preview. This isn't excessive. But your bitching is.

I consider a 99 cent promotion that is digging for personal information to be spam.

[highnote]

And his name isn't Harry Broadbent. It's Happy Broadbent.


I was close. Off by two p's. pp -- past performances. Ironic. :D

Speaking of BRIS software. I remember a saying one of the guys at BRIS told me on the phone one time. He said the main difference between the various pieces of software they sold was that the good ones take longer to figure out that they don't work.

That is classic and so true. :D

[TheEdge07]

[QUOTE=highnote]Got an email at 9:30am today from timeformus that you can get unlimited pps for the next 72 hours for 99 cents.

Why 99 cents and not free?

I might consider using them if I could get free access to them. For me it's all about the hassle. If I am going to switch data providers then I want it to be as frictionless as possible.[/QUOTE

Dude its 4 quaters..get over it...free wtf go play the slots

[Grits]

But maybe there are people who don't mind paying to get probed.

You may want to schedule your missed prostate exam!

[highnote]

You may want to schedule your missed prostate exam!


Yes. It's probably time since my grandfather died of prostate cancer!

[SandyW]

I'm going to ask you a simple question.

Do you work for FREE?

If not. What the hell makes you think those at TFUS want to?

They fully explained the promotion, yet, now you're pissed off. If you're this cheap, you lose. Not them. They won't fold without your .99.

They don't send spam emails either. On days leading up to and on big weekends, they'll send a preview. This isn't excessive. But your bitching is.

Free or not free, what we are saying if you want someone to try your product for a few days then don't make them force over their credit card number until they decide they want the product. Identity thief is running rampart these days and most of us try to protect ourselves the best we can. It is not the $2.99 or the $0.99.

[Grits]

Free or not free, what we are saying if you want someone to try your product for a few days then don't make them force over their credit card number until they decide they want the product. Identity thief is running rampart these days and most of us try to protect ourselves the best we can. It is not the $2.99 or the $0.99.

Make that EVERY track running--nationwide for THREE days.

Have you not ever heard of a loaded (any amount) Visa or Green Dot card available at Walgreen, Walmart, Kroger, etc. Saves all identity theft concerns for any online transaction. TFUS accepts them. No problem.

[highnote]

Got an email at 9:30am today from timeformus that you can get unlimited pps for the next 72 hours for 99 cents.

Why 99 cents and not free?

I might consider using them if I could get free access to them. For me it's all about the hassle. If I am going to switch data providers then I want it to be as frictionless as possible.

Dude its 4 quaters..get over it...free wtf go play the slots

You have missed my point.

DRF is down. Here is a chance for tf to get new customers. They should let customers get their hands on the product as frictionless as possible.

This is exactly what drf is doing -- giving away free pps. No hassle. Just go to http://www.drf.coom and download all the pps for free. No credit card required. No email address required.

It's called goodwill.

The problem with tf is their motives. They want YOUR email address and credit card and they want YOU to pay for them to have it and spend YOUR time to give it to them. The data is sitting on their servers whether anyone uses it or not. So this is not about providing you a great product and doing a public service. This is about getting their hands on YOUR data.

If they really wanted new customers they would let potential customers get their hands on the data, try out the data and then the ones who like the product would become repeat customers.

Why do they need people's emails and credit card info when most of them are NOT going to become customers? What are they going to do with it? Maybe they want to sell your personal info. Maybe there is more money in selling your data than in selling you racing data?

People's personal data is worth more than nothing. Why should people pay someone to give them their personal information? It should be the other way around. If a company wants your personal information then they should give something of value in return. But tf wants you to pay them to give them your personal info. Because as you said 99 cents is irrelevant. It's a trivial amount. It's not about the 99 cents.

As teenagers would say, "They are being fake." They're trying to mask their true motives by trying to act like they're doing you a big favor.

But that's the skeptic in me. If you want to pay them to take your info then go ahead.

[highnote]

Make that EVERY track running--nationwide for THREE days.

Have you not ever heard of a loaded (any amount) Visa or Green Dot card available at Walgreen, Walmart, Kroger, etc. Saves all identity theft concerns for any online transaction. TFUS accepts them. No problem.


DRF is doing the same thing. No credit card. No 99 cents. I even turned the cookies off on my computer and I can still get the DRF pps for free!

Take that identity thieves. :D

[SandyW]

You have missed my point.

DRF is down. Here is a chance for tf to get new customers. They should let customers get their hands on the product as frictionless as possible.

This is exactly what drf is doing -- giving away free pps. No hassle. Just go to http://www.drf.coom and download all the pps for free. No credit card required. No email address required.

It's called goodwill.

The problem with tf is their motives. They want YOUR email address and credit card and they want YOU to pay for them to have it and spend YOUR time to give it to them. The data is sitting on their servers whether anyone uses it or not. So this is not about providing you a great product and doing a public service. This is about getting their hands on YOUR data.

If they really wanted new customers they would let potential customers get their hands on the data, try out the data and then the ones who like the product would become repeat customers.

Why do they need people's emails and credit card info when most of them are NOT going to become customers? What are they going to do with it? Maybe they want to sell your personal info. Maybe there is more money in selling your data than in selling you racing data?

People's personal data is worth more than nothing. Why should people pay someone to give them their personal information? It should be the other way around. If a company wants your personal information then they should give something of value in return. But tf wants you to pay them to give them your personal info. Because as you said 99 cents is irrelevant. It's a trivial amount. It's not about the 99 cents.

As teenagers would say, "They are being fake." They're trying to mask their true motives by trying to act like they're doing you a big favor.

But that's the skeptic in me. If you want to pay them to take your info then go ahead.

You just hit the nail squarely on the head.

I'll just add that TFUS just missed a giant opportunity.

[highnote]

You just hit the nail squarely on the head.

I'll just add that TFUS just missed a giant opportunity.


Disingenous is the word I was looking for to describe the spam email I got today from tfus.

DRF are being genuine by offering totally free data, no friction, no personal data collection. They are showing that they truly care about the unfortunate situation their customers are in as a result of a power outage at their data center. They are not trying to exploit their customers. They are generating goodwill.

[Grits]

DRF is down. Here is a chance for tf to get new customers. They should let customers get their hands on the product as frictionless as possible.

This is exactly what drf is doing -- giving away free pps. No hassle. Just go to http://www.drf.coom and download all the pps for free. No credit card required. No email address required.

It's called goodwill.

You call this goodwill? I'm sorry, to put it candidly, I call it .... covering your ass when you've tanked .... and anyone else that's owned/operated a business for 27 years would call it the same.

You turned a question about a figure for the Kentucky Derby into a 30 page tome. I'm done. You're tiring, but worse, you've been accusatory of a company, ie, "selling of data", etc, that you know nothing about. TFUS will do fine without your .99.

[Tom]

Must be Easter again..I hear the peeps!

Cheep Cheep Cheep :lol:

[precocity]

You call this goodwill? I'm sorry, to put it candidly, I call it .... covering your ass when you've tanked .... and anyone else that's owned/operated a business for 27 years would call it the same.

You turned a question about a figure for the Kentucky Derby into a 30 page tome. I'm done. You're tiring, but worse, you've been accusatory of a company, ie, "selling of data", etc, that you know nothing about. TFUS will do fine without your .99.

You're tiring :rolleyes: :D

[cj]

To get your credit card on file.

This simply isn't true. We feel $2.99 is a very reasonable offer for a three day trial. This isn't a new offer, it is the same one we have had for a long time. Obviously when DRF is having problems we want to make sure it is known.

[cj]

I know. Everyone wants to get their hands in my wallet.

It is a stupid gimmick. Do they want people to try their product or not? Now they've just pissed me off. It's bad enough that they would probably require my email address so they can send me more spam to my junk email folder.

Maybe they don't need new customers?

Doesn't every business want hands in your wallet, as you call it? Are we supposed to give stuff away for free because DRF screwed up? That makes no sense to me.

This is no gimmick. Like I stated, it is the same offer we've had for new customers since the outset. What PP provider doesn't require a credit card (or some form of payment) and an email address? I imagine you can opt out of any emails if you choose to do so.

[TheEdge07]

Doesn't every business want hands in your wallet, as you call it? Are we supposed to give stuff away for free because DRF screwed up? That makes no sense to me.

This is no gimmick. Like I stated, it is the same offer we've had for new customers since the outset. What PP provider doesn't require a credit card (or some form of payment) and an email address? I imagine you can opt out of any emails if you choose to do so.


They gamble and bitch about 12 quarters.. :bang:

[highnote]

You call this goodwill? I'm sorry, to put it candidly, I call it .... covering your ass when you've tanked .... and anyone else that's owned/operated a business for 27 years would call it the same.

That's fine. You're entitled to your opinion. Like Mark Twain said, "It's differences of opinion that make a horse race." :)

You turned a question about a figure for the Kentucky Derby into a 30 page tome.

That's why this board is so popular. Where would PA be without us? Why do you think there are ads on this page?

I'm done. You're tiring,

I have the stamina like that of horse that runs a Derby in at least 2:03 and change. ;)

but worse, you've been accusatory of a company, ie, "selling of data", etc, that you know nothing about.

I call it like I see it. If they don't like the way they are perceived they can change their promotion.

TFUS will do fine without your .99.

Of that I am certain.

[cj]

DRF is doing the same thing. No credit card. No 99 cents. I even turned the cookies off on my computer and I can still get the DRF pps for free!

Take that identity thieves. :D

Gee, I wonder why? You have to be kidding right?

When DRF or BRIS or Thorograph or Equibase has a working system in place, like DRF obviously does not, let me know how you are able to get free PPs without providing any information from any of them.

For the record, we offer free races every day. Any one can try them out without giving up credit card information every single day. Yes, you still have to sign up.

[ten2oneormore]

DRF are being genuine by offering totally free data, no friction, no personal data collection. They are showing that they truly care about the unfortunate situation their customers are in as a result of a power outage at their data center. They are not trying to exploit their customers. They are generating goodwill.


This is one of the funnier things I've heard today.You can't possibly be this naive.

[highnote]

Doesn't every business want hands in your wallet, as you call it? Are we supposed to give stuff away for free because DRF screwed up? That makes no sense to me.

This is no gimmick. Like I stated, it is the same offer we've had for new customers since the outset. What PP provider doesn't require a credit card (or some form of payment) and an email address? I imagine you can opt out of any emails if you choose to do so.


You're probably right. That's why we have these discussions... to find the truth.

However, the TFUS email promotion arrived at a time when DRF's servers were down. So it comes across as trying to take advantage of DRF's weakness. Maybe that is not the case. Maybe it is just a regularly scheduled promotion.

If so, then I stand corrected.

As a person who has been self-employed for 30 years I have survived and grown my business because I gave my customers more than they paid for and I have had to stay one step ahead of my competitors.

TFUS is not giving away more than customers are paying for, in my opinion. Personal data is worth more than a free weekend of pps. Some others may think their personal data is worth less than 3 days of free pps. That's fine.

If TFUS wanted to get ahead of DRF then this weekend would be a good opportunity. DRF are giving away free pps, no credit card required, no email address required and even cookies are not required.

TFUS should match that unless they don't want to hit a competitor while they're down. And their is some honor in that.

So there are a few ways to view the situation.

When I got TFUS email I decided to come on to PA to express the way it made me feel. Sorry if I offended anyone.

[highnote]

This is one of the funnier things I've heard today.You can't possibly be this naive.

It's working for me. They have more goodwill from me today than yesterday.

Funny world we live in...

If you slag DRF no one says a word.

If you slag TFUS you've committed a major felony. :D

[Stillriledup]

Pimlico PPs look odd, i won't be playing them today because of this.

[NTamm1215]

You're probably right. That's why we have these discussions... to find the truth.

However, the TFUS email promotion arrived at a time when DRF's servers were down. So it comes across as trying to take advantage of DRF's weakness. Maybe that is not the case. Maybe it is just a regularly scheduled promotion.

If so, then I stand corrected.

As a person who has been self-employed for 30 years I have survived and grown my business because I gave my customers more than they paid for and I have had to stay one step ahead of my competitors.

TFUS is not giving away more than customers are paying for, in my opinion. Personal data is worth more than a free weekend of pps. Some others may think their personal data is worth less than 3 days of free pps. That's fine.

If TFUS wanted to get ahead of DRF then this weekend would be a good opportunity. DRF are giving away free pps, no credit card required, no email address required and even cookies are not required.

TFUS should match that unless they don't want to hit a competitor while they're down. And their is some honor in that.

So there are a few ways to view the situation.

When I got TFUS email I decided to come on to PA to express the way it made me feel. Sorry if I offended anyone.

It's a pretty safe bet that you've never run, or have been close to anyone who runs, a business.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Pimlico PPs look odd, i won't be playing them today because of this.

Same thing with CT and a few other tracks - are those even Beyers (I assume the first number is a pace fig and the second is a speed fig)? But the second numbers seem too high for certain classes (if they're Beyers). Actually it looks like an Equibase program?

[Saratoga_Mike]

PPs for Monday's GP mandatory Rainbow payout card are out on DRF now, too. They look fine.

[Track Phantom]

It's a pretty safe bet that you've never run, or have been close to anyone who runs, a business.

Not sure why you feel compelled to drill into the guy with a comment like that. I happen to agree with him 100%. I would have absolutely given away the material for free in hopes that the players who might never even look at their product would be compelled to do so due to what is happening with DRF. I think it is a missed opportunity.

[highnote]

It's a pretty safe bet that you've never run, or have been close to anyone who runs, a business.

Your criticism of me might carry more weight if you hadn't shown such a dislike for DRF in a previous post and shown so much favor for TFUS.

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=104408


DRF is woefully far behind in terms of mobile technology. It doesn't help that their regular website itself is subpar. They have a long way to go to catch up.

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=104640







No, this is strictly an electronic venture. The best method is via a tablet from what I hear, but since I don't have one yet, I'm still using a laptop, and that is fine too. I'll get one before Saratoga.



It is excellent on tablets.

[highnote]

Not sure why you feel compelled to drill into the guy with a comment like that. I happen to agree with him 100%. I would have absolutely given away the material for free in hopes that the players who might never even look at their product would be compelled to do so due to what is happening with DRF. I think it is a missed opportunity.


See the previous post above this one for the answer to your question.

Somebody's feathers got ruffled. :D

[cj]

Not sure why you feel compelled to drill into the guy with a comment like that. I happen to agree with him 100%. I would have absolutely given away the material for free in hopes that the players who might never even look at their product would be compelled to do so due to what is happening with DRF. I think it is a missed opportunity.

Of course everybody wants free PPs. You realize we aren't allowed to just give away past performances in bulk, right?

I imagine DRF had to make a special request of Equibase to be allowed to even do this.

[Track Phantom]

Of course everybody wants free PPs. You realize we aren't allowed to just give away past performances in bulk, right?

I imagine DRF had to make a special request of Equibase to be allowed to even do this.

I did not realize. I'm not that close to it. My comments were assuming they could give them away in bulk. If they can't, end of debate.

[Track Phantom]

Of course everybody wants free PPs. You realize we aren't allowed to just give away past performances in bulk, right?

I imagine DRF had to make a special request of Equibase to be allowed to even do this.

Not a single person on this forum wouldn't pay .99c for unlimited PP's. That isn't the point, which I'm sure you realize.

[cj]

I did not realize. I'm not that close to it. My comments were assuming they could give them away in bulk. If they can't, end of debate.

I don't know the specifics of agreements with Equibase, but I am positive they don't include the ability to give away past performances for free in bulk quantities. I'm doing some digging now.

[stringmail]

It's a pretty safe bet that you've never run, or have been close to anyone who runs, a business.

I think you would lose that bet.

The guy stated he was self employed and ran his own business. His view was that he wouldn't beat a guy while he is down as I am sure DRF is doing a very good job of losing customers on their own.

You, on the other hand, clearly disagree and would view this as an opportunity.

It is up to the consumer to determine which path they would prefer.

[cj]

Not a single person on this forum wouldn't pay .99c for unlimited PP's. That isn't the point, which I'm sure you realize.

You realize you have to give an email address to DRF just to read articles, right?

Here is the deal guys, we can not just give away PPs. We aren't allowed. The two free races a day is the best we can do. Why DRF is being allowed to do this, and thus get a competitive advantage, is above my pay grade. It is not being ignored.

[Steve 'StatMan']

I sense DRF lost not only control of their website, but to their accounts system - with no way to log in, can't prove who their customers are, who aren't, and can't get any new customers to join while the website is down. Their only way to not hurt their customers further was to offer the PPS for free to all accessing their website.

This has to be costing DRF a lot of money, as well as their reputation. But without their offering free PPS to minimally keep their own customers able to use a minimal PDF PP product, that would be even worse.

Other companies were going to make money over the Memorial Day weekend selling PPS and products, whether DRF was up or down. No need for the other companies to take a green blood-bath at the same time. Discounts are wise, but to forego all PP sales as well, and upset their current paying customers? I can't see it. They are paying Equibase a hefty fee to produce and sell PPS. And Equibase depends on companies being able to pay them to continue collecting and providing their data.

[highnote]

Why DRF is being allowed to do this, and thus get a competitive advantage, is above my pay grade. It is not being ignored.

Rank has its privileges.

But you do bring up a good point about not being allowed to give them away. On the other had, DRF must be one of the biggest providers. So industry handle could suffer if the data is not made available.

[zippychippy]

Indication that problem is almost resolved.

[cj]

But you do bring up a good point about not being allowed to give them away.

Which is the reason for the $2.99 trial offer which we've been beaten up over as data miners. I don't mind criticism, it makes you better, but it should have some merit. The data mining one had none.

[highnote]

The data mining one had none.

Possibly.

[Mineshaft]

Its back up and running

[Track Phantom]

Its back up and running

Except for the only thing I care about, Formulator.

[Stillriledup]

Its back up and running

It is?

I get bumped to live.drf.com or something like that. Are you getting the actual DRF?

[Mineshaft]

It is?

I get bumped to live.drf.com or something like that. Are you getting the actual DRF?




i got the actual drf.com

[Track Phantom]

Appears that Formulator is back. The long nightmare might be over :)

[luisbe]

i got the actual drf.com

Not me.

[Stillriledup]

i got the actual drf.com

Hmmm. I type in DRF.COM and it bumps me to live.drf.com

[Augenj]

Hmmm. I type in DRF.COM and it bumps me to live.drf.com
Don't know your browser but you might try clearing your cache and history in it. I go directly to drf.com.

[Stillriledup]

Don't know your browser but you might try clearing your cache and history in it. I go directly to drf.com.

that worked, thanks A.

[Bullet Plane]

I was on DRF for awhile. It was very slow.

Then, I just now tried and got sent to DRF live.

Guess they are still working out the bugs.

[banacek]

Boy that was quick..just going to sign up for the 99 cent deal at the link TFUS provided (the great PP crisis of 2014 they called it) and it's already gone..directed me to $3 a card instead. I'll check it out another time.

[classhandicapper]

Latest Tweet. Follow @DRFFormulator for updates

DRF Formulator ‏@DRFFormulator 1h
Yes, Formulator is back up! However, it may take time for all cards to show and some may not print yet, as the data is still catching up.

[Steve 'StatMan']

I just picked up the Formulator Export files I needed for Sun & Mon, as well as saved off the Fri & Sat ones.

I haven't gotten into the Formulator PPs yet, but will later.

Very big weekend. Glad it's back, but hope they follow through all the things the CEO wrote in his memo, and maybe even more.

[PaceAdvantage]

DRF is doing the same thing. No credit card. No 99 cents. I even turned the cookies off on my computer and I can still get the DRF pps for free!

Take that identity thieves. :DYou just enjoy being ridiculous. It's ok...a lot of people are doing that here these days.

TFUS is an upstart...if they see a chance to gain customers or email addresses or credit card numbers (which makes it infinitely more enticing to hook a buy if the customer already has his/her CC on file), they would be foolish not to take advantage of it.

Giving it away for free might get them some customers, but charging a nominal price in order to register a user is a much smarter business move, as it will gain them some customers NOW and perhaps easier repeat buyers in the future since they are already registered.

[PaceAdvantage]

If you slag DRF no one says a word.

If you slag TFUS you've committed a major felony. :DRidiculous squared.

[pdxmike]

I guess they need to recoup their money from having shitty servers.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i315/pdxmike/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-05/81F59252-023C-4ADF-8A09-A3DC51EA98D6_zpsrh1ztvzr.jpg

[GaryG]

All is forgiven....the sun is coming up and Formulator is working.

[JohnGalt1]

I mostly use drf for the entries to print as a program.

That's still not up.

[Tom]

BRIS has free programs - very good quality.
At the very bottom is a summary of past scratches.

[LottaKash]

I guess they need to recoup their money from having shitty servers.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i315/pdxmike/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-05/81F59252-023C-4ADF-8A09-A3DC51EA98D6_zpsrh1ztvzr.jpg

Yikes!..I remember when it was $.75 ...:eek:

[Grits]

About those BULK FREE PAST PERFORMANCES, gentlemen. Hhhmmm.

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/the-biz/drf-com-offers-free-pps-after-outage-takes-down-site/#comment-1401821889

Particularly this comment from Len Davis.


Len Davis • 15 hours ago (http://www.paulickreport.com/news/the-biz/drf-com-offers-free-pps-after-outage-takes-down-site/#comment-1401821889) What's going on--at this very moment--is nothing short of earthshaking in the world of horse racing past performances, and it's unprecedented in the internet era.

Someone should write a story.

As of this comment, Daily Racing Form is in gross breach of its contract with Equibase, and the important question is: What are the implications, if any?

Gross breach: There is a clear line in the sand for ANY entity with an Equibase data reseller contract, and all resellers agree to it--there shall be NO offering of racecards without a related financial transaction. Reimbursing the customer? Industry-standard among most ADW providers, but the reseller (such as DRF.com (http://DRF.com)) may NOT give away PPs for free without any sort of transaction. Even the most cavalier resellers of Equibase data abide by this contractual clause, but DRF--as of this very moment--is breaching it. They are giving away PPs for free, and they're not even asking for so much as a log-in (the limitation on free races is 1-2 per day and no more).

It's either a brave new day in which ANY data reseller can now simply give away PPs, unfettered, or...Equibase will assert their contractual rights. Right now it seems DRF is making a mockery of Equibase, who, like 'em or not, spend millions of dollars gathering racing data.

Will Equibase let this go unchecked? We shall see. Do they have a better plan in place for a critical situation than DRF did, with its room full of melting servers when the AC went out? We shall see.

[Tom]

Someone should write a story!

Some one doing something FOR the people who pay for this game??????
Un-bee-lee-vable!

Someone should write a story.

[highnote]

Ridiculous squared.

i have been on this forum long enough to know the sentiment. I call it as i see it.

when drf was down and getting criticized there were not many positive comments for them. Maybe the ribbing they were taking was good natured? If so, then so are mine.

[proximity]

Here is the deal guys, we can not just give away PPs. We aren't allowed. The two free races a day is the best we can do. Why DRF is being allowed to do this, and thus get a competitive advantage, is above my pay grade. It is not being ignored.

it wasn't that long ago that drf pulled all their trackmen and gave equibase both (a) their business and (b) a monopoly in chart calling information.

[Saratoga_Mike]

I believe DRF's been relying on Equibase's chart-calling for years now?

[JohnGalt1]

BRIS has free programs - very good quality.
At the very bottom is a summary of past scratches.


That's what I used today.

I wish someone would offer a scratch sheet with just the horse jockey post position and odds on one page. Bris has a scratch sheet for a buck.

I think the DRF entries use less print--I print in draft mode--than Bris, but both are 4-7 pages. Drf has open margins on the side for writing results.

[cj]

it wasn't that long ago that drf pulled all their trackmen and gave equibase both (a) their business and (b) a monopoly in chart calling information.

This has nothing at all to do with the reseller agreements.

[SandyW]

That's what I used today.

I wish someone would offer a scratch sheet with just the horse jockey post position and odds on one page. Bris has a scratch sheet for a buck.

I think the DRF entries use less print--I print in draft mode--than Bris, but both are 4-7 pages. Drf has open margins on the side for writing results.

The DRF does, it is called The Quick Sheets. A real sleeper product.

[The Hawk]

The DRF does, it is called The Quick Sheets. A real sleeper product.

Yes, this may be what you're looking for.

[proximity]

This has nothing at all to do with the reseller agreements.

well it's some justification as to why equibase may not hold drf's feet to the fire over this. idk about at your track but at penn national they're now in bed together as the simulcast program is the daily racing program..... which you can also buy on drf.com for $1 a card. equibase pace and speed.

[PaceAdvantage]

About those BULK FREE PAST PERFORMANCES, gentlemen. Hhhmmm.

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/the-biz/drf-com-offers-free-pps-after-outage-takes-down-site/#comment-1401821889

Particularly this comment from Len Davis.I don't know why some people are making this an issue. Does anyone think for a moment that DRF did this without permission from Equibase?

Given this "Reseller Agreement" originates with Equibase, I would think Equibase has every right to temporarily modify their agreement with any particular customer of theirs that they choose. Since DRF is presumably their largest customer, I'm sure they allowed DRF to do what they did as a gesture of goodwill towards their largest partner during a time of crisis.

I honestly don't see how this is a problem for anyone.

[o_crunk]

I don't know why some people are making this an issue. Does anyone think for a moment that DRF did this without permission from Equibase?

Given this "Reseller Agreement" originates with Equibase, I would think Equibase has every right to temporarily modify their agreement with any particular customer of theirs that they choose. Since DRF is presumably their largest customer, I'm sure they allowed DRF to do what they did as a gesture of goodwill towards their largest partner during a time of crisis.

I honestly don't see how this is a problem for anyone.

Certainly calls into question the integrity of Equibase, no? These aren't really extraordinary circumstances. It's good to know that if a reseller's site is down, they can just spring up an S3 bucket and give everything away without having any sort of transaction log.

Maybe I'm biased but I think that's a pretty big deal considering there actually are, like y'know, reseller agreements. It's a big deal if you've entered into a "reseller agreement" and you're not DRF, I would think. So, based on what you're saying, it's okay for Equibase to be anti-competitive at their whim whenever they feel like those "reseller agreements" aren't worth enforcing? Square biz. Surely, the temporary modification of any agreements should have been extended to all resellers then, no?

[mountainman]

I still can't connect with drf to get pp's...

[Tom]

Just got on no problem.

[mountainman]

Just got on no problem.

I can get on with my office comp-but not my laptop at home.....

[cj]

I honestly don't see how this is a problem for anyone.

I have a problem with Equibase allowing it, not with DRF. They put TimeformUS, BRIS, Trackmaster, etc. at a competitive disadvantage due to something that was nothing but ineptness from DRF. You could see it in this very thread from many of the (mostly uninformed) comments. DRF effs up, and instead of having to suffer all the consequences, they are able to give PPs away. Surely that kept some people from buying from other providers. I'm not sure how you can't see this as a problem.

[FocusWiz]

Regarding accessing www.drf.com, I have been troubleshooting this on my three machines (1 could access it, two were redirected to live.drf.com).

It turns out that the domain name servers on the internet are not 100% in agreement where these urls should go to. After a couple of hours of rebooting, restoring, clearing DNS caches, malware scanning, and similar fruitless repairs, I stumbled upon a difference in the Network Connections between my main machine and the two uncooperative ones.

Here is what I did:I opened Network Connections (You can try Click on Start, Type "Network Connections" [without the quotes], select "View Network Connections" on newer machines, or search through Control Panel on older ones). I right-clicked on the icon for the connection in use and selected "Properties" from the right-click menu. I very carefully right-clicked on the item called "Internet Protocol Version 4 (TCP/IPv4) and with that highlighted clicked on the "Properties" button below and to the right. In that window, I forced the machine to use the Google Domain Name Server by clicking on the radio button next to "Use the following DNS server addresses" and putting the preferred DNS server as 8.8.8.8.This forced it to use the same DNS resolver as the main machine I have (the Google server is significantly faster, too). The problem went away, but I am still re-installing things that were broken while trying the other fixes.

YMMV

[highnote]

I have a problem with Equibase allowing it, not with DRF. They put TimeformUS, BRIS, Trackmaster, etc. at a competitive disadvantage due to something that was nothing but ineptness from DRF. You could see it in this very thread from many of the (mostly uninformed) comments. DRF effs up, and instead of having to suffer all the consequences, they are able to give PPs away. Surely that kept some people from buying from other providers. I'm not sure how you can't see this as a problem.


As I wrote in an earlier post... Rank has its privileges.

Handle probably suffers when racing data is not available. Tracks own Equibase. Tracks, or at least Equibase with the proxy, probably decided it was in the best interest of the tracks to make the data available.

It might not be fair to the other providers, but if everything was fair a lot of executives of big banks and Freddie and Fannie would be in jail for accounting fraud and their complicity in the financial crises.

DRF giving away free pps for a couple days doesn't even register on the radar compared to the 11 trillions of dollars of accounting control fraud the banks cost us and 10 million lost jobs.

Think about it... these executives lined their pockets at the expense of the financial health of their country and nothing was done about it.

At least DRF was trying to help their customers and tracks. Maybe they weren't being totally altruistic, but no matter what they did, they were damned if they did and damned if they didn't.

http://www.ted.com/talks/william_black_how_to_rob_a_bank_from_the_inside_th at_is/transcript#t-8819

[proximity]

I don't know why some people are making this an issue. Does anyone think for a moment that DRF did this without permission from Equibase?

Given this "Reseller Agreement" originates with Equibase, I would think Equibase has every right to temporarily modify their agreement with any particular customer of theirs that they choose. Since DRF is presumably their largest customer, I'm sure they allowed DRF to do what they did as a gesture of goodwill towards their largest partner during a time of crisis.

I honestly don't see how this is a problem for anyone.

this and there's no "presumably" about it.

(1) like I said it may be going back 15 years or so but it was drf that stepped out of the way and made equibase INDISPENSABLE in the beaten lengths business. it wasn't brisnet, timeform, or trackmaster that pulled trackmen from towers they'd been occupying for 100 years.

(2) drf is the largest.... no presumably about it. if I buy from a business three times a year it shouldn't dictate the terms of their relationship with another client who buys 300 times a year, has been for years, set them up as a monopoly, is partners with them on the top selling on track program....

(3) they are partners in daily racing program and drf even sells these online.

[zippychippy]

There was no way the other PP providers were going to capture enough market share to make up for the lost betting revenue if DRF wasn't up and providing PPs. A lot of people just stopped betting and waited it out.

The choice for Equibase was a financial blow to the entire industry or allowing DRF to give away PPs for free for a few days until DRF.com and Formulator were back up and DRF could charge customers appropriately.

It's not like DRF did not pay a price for this. The company lost revenue at DRF and DRFBETS, took a blow to its reputation, and opened the door for a handful of people to look at the alternatives.

[affirmedny]

How do we know DRF did not pay Equibase?

[Tom]

I guess they need to recoup their money from having shitty servers.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i315/pdxmike/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-05/81F59252-023C-4ADF-8A09-A3DC51EA98D6_zpsrh1ztvzr.jpg

Just saw a sign at the local TOPS, DRF going to $9.00 June 1.
And the sad thing is, it is STILL a far better bargain than their over-priced web based PPs.

[Pensacola Pete]

They're finding out that those Packard Bells that they have to replace are a lot more expensive now, so up goes the price.

[PaceAdvantage]

Certainly calls into question the integrity of Equibase, no? These aren't really extraordinary circumstances. It's good to know that if a reseller's site is down, they can just spring up an S3 bucket and give everything away without having any sort of transaction log.

Maybe I'm biased but I think that's a pretty big deal considering there actually are, like y'know, reseller agreements. It's a big deal if you've entered into a "reseller agreement" and you're not DRF, I would think. So, based on what you're saying, it's okay for Equibase to be anti-competitive at their whim whenever they feel like those "reseller agreements" aren't worth enforcing? Square biz. Surely, the temporary modification of any agreements should have been extended to all resellers then, no?Why would they extend it to other resellers? Those resellers were not having any trouble delivering their product to their customers due to, yes, EXTRAORDINARY CIRCUMSTANCES.

You are almost acting as if DRF did this on purpose the way you post.

How was this NOT extraordinary circumstances? How many times since they began putting their PPs online has access to DRF PPs been down for multiple days straight?

[PaceAdvantage]

I have a problem with Equibase allowing it, not with DRF. They put TimeformUS, BRIS, Trackmaster, etc. at a competitive disadvantage due to something that was nothing but ineptness from DRF. You could see it in this very thread from many of the (mostly uninformed) comments. DRF effs up, and instead of having to suffer all the consequences, they are able to give PPs away. Surely that kept some people from buying from other providers. I'm not sure how you can't see this as a problem.Essentially what you're saying is, regular customers of DRF should have been screwed over. What about the ones who had no interest in going to another provider? They want to use what they are used to using. Equibase allowed DRF to continue serving those customers. And if Equibase did not allow it, I'm sure we'll hear about that one way or another very soon.

Who should be first on the priority list? The customer who wants what they want (and in many cases has already paid for if they have a long term subscription), or other providers?

What you're saying is, DRF customers should have been screwed over in favor of other providers being able to get their foot in the door.

Bottom line, it's not a good situation either way...however, this is a case where the customer was placed first, and that's a good thing in my opinion.

[PaceAdvantage]

By the way....if giving away free PPs was such a blow to the many varied providers of PP data out there, this guy WHOBET (whom many of you know around here) would have probably been single handily responsible for doing away with a good portion of the industry by now...he makes it fairly easy to get PPs on a good number of races each and every day...and at the most popular tracks, he often provides links to FREE PPs for every single race on the card.

Why has nobody ever complained about all the FREE PPs BRISnet is giving away each and every day online?

http://www.trks2day.com/monday.html

I'm sure I'm missing something with my lack of sleep these days, but didn't someone say the reseller agreement only allows two free races a day? So how is BRIS able to give away FULL CARDS on many an occasion, let alone MULTIPLE RACES at almost EVERY track EVERY day?

[Stillriledup]

Essentially what you're saying is, regular customers of DRF should have been screwed over. What about the ones who had no interest in going to another provider? They want to use what they are used to using. Equibase allowed DRF to continue serving those customers. And if Equibase did not allow it, I'm sure we'll hear about that one way or another very soon.

Who should be first on the priority list? The customer who wants what they want (and in many cases has already paid for if they have a long term subscription), or other providers?

What you're saying is, DRF customers should have been screwed over in favor of other providers being able to get their foot in the door.

Bottom line, it's not a good situation either way...however, this is a case where the customer was placed first, and that's a good thing in my opinion.

I agree with the "used to" comments. My eyes are used to DRF, i look at other PPs from other places and its looks greek to me, i just feel like i don't know what i'm looking at, not sure why that is, but for me, like you say, i want what i'm used to using.

[classhandicapper]

I agree with the "used to" comments. My eyes are used to DRF, i look at other PPs from other places and its looks greek to me, i just feel like i don't know what i'm looking at, not sure why that is, but for me, like you say, i want what i'm used to using.

It's a fairly common phenomenon. When I look at the Bris PPs my head explodes. But I'm sure there are people that are used to them that think they are fine.

I remember reading about this decades ago in an analysis of the newspaper industry. They were making the point that it gives each paper a bit of a competitive moat. People gets used to seeing things in certain formats and locations and will tend to stay with what they are used even when given other attractive options.

Over and above that, even if you get past the formatting issues eventually, there is sometimes specific information that becomes part of your game that only one provider includes. That kind of locks you in unless you want to overhaul your thinking.

[highnote]

DRF is doing the same thing. No credit card. No 99 cents. I even turned the cookies off on my computer and I can still get the DRF pps for free!

Take that identity thieves. :D


By the way... It just dawned on me today that the line I wrote "Take that identity thieves" might have made some people think I was calling TFUS identity thieves because TFUS was requiring a 99 cent payment, credit card and cookies to get their unlimited data weekend option. That was not my intention. I was making a joke about people like the Nigerian Prince and some organized crime groups deep in the heart of central Europe -- people that steal your personal data and commit identity fraud.

[DJofSD]

By the way... It just dawned on me today that the line I wrote "Take that identity thieves" might have made some people think I was calling TFUS identity thieves because TFUS was requiring a 99 cent payment, credit card and cookies to get their unlimited data weekend option. That was not my intention. I was making a joke about people like the Nigerian Prince and some organized crime groups deep in the heart of central Europe -- people that steal your personal data and commit identity fraud.
I did not take it the wrong way.

Matter of fact, I thought it was a point well made.

Why? When DRF suffers a catastrophic outage like what just befell them, then, in my view of the IT universe, who's to say they have their arms around the security issues used to protect their customers data?

[highnote]

I did not take it the wrong way.

Matter of fact, I thought it was a point well made.

Why? When DRF suffers a catastrophic outage like what just befell them, then, in my view of the IT universe, who's to say they have their arms around the security issues used to protect their customers data?


You make a very good point. I didn't even think about the potential for security problems at DRF after they lost their data center.

[DJofSD]

You make a very good point. I didn't even think about the potential for security problems at DRF after they lost their data center.
It's not so much the two issues are linked because of the problem at the data center. It is a tell about the attitude DRF has concerning what is necessary to operate a robust IT service. Typically, management does not want to spend any more money than is necessary. Security issues eventually suffer.

A small example. Remember the recent Heart-bleed (sometimes called heart-beat) security breach? It was centered on a buggy version of OpenSSL. That piss-poor implementation of the standard was free, i.e. it cost nothing to download, install and use. Other versions of OpenSSL did not have the problem.

So, as I said, it's a hint, a suggestion that DRF did not have a good business continuation plan in place, maybe they might have other problems too. Like, not having good security practices.

[cj]

Essentially what you're saying is, regular customers of DRF should have been screwed over. What about the ones who had no interest in going to another provider? They want to use what they are used to using. Equibase allowed DRF to continue serving those customers. And if Equibase did not allow it, I'm sure we'll hear about that one way or another very soon.

Who should be first on the priority list? The customer who wants what they want (and in many cases has already paid for if they have a long term subscription), or other providers?

What you're saying is, DRF customers should have been screwed over in favor of other providers being able to get their foot in the door.

Bottom line, it's not a good situation either way...however, this is a case where the customer was placed first, and that's a good thing in my opinion.

Obviously I'm biased. That said, what I am saying is that now, regular TimeformUS, BRIS, etc. customers didn't have to buy from them since they could get PPs for free from DRF. There are reasons these agreements are in place. They aren't just rules made up for no reason.

It isn't anybody's fault but DRF that they couldn't verify who they were giving PPs too. That is the problem. Not that they gave them away to regular customers, but that they gave them away to anyone.

[cj]

By the way....if giving away free PPs was such a blow to the many varied providers of PP data out there, this guy WHOBET (whom many of you know around here) would have probably been single handily responsible for doing away with a good portion of the industry by now...he makes it fairly easy to get PPs on a good number of races each and every day...and at the most popular tracks, he often provides links to FREE PPs for every single race on the card.

Why has nobody ever complained about all the FREE PPs BRISnet is giving away each and every day online?

http://www.trks2day.com/monday.html

I'm sure I'm missing something with my lack of sleep these days, but didn't someone say the reseller agreement only allows two free races a day? So how is BRIS able to give away FULL CARDS on many an occasion, let alone MULTIPLE RACES at almost EVERY track EVERY day?

I actually have complained about it on several occasions.

[letswastemoney]

TVG gives away PPs as long as you bet the card you bought (1 card limit I think). I'm happy with the arrangement.

[banacek]

Are any of the providers (DRF, BRIS, TFUS, Equibase, or Trackmaster) authorized advertisers on PA?

[cj]

Yes, TimeformUS is. I don't know about any others.

[cj]

TVG gives away PPs as long as you bet the card you bought (1 card limit I think). I'm happy with the arrangement.

Those kind of deals are specifically allowed under the agreements with Equibase.

[Tom]

How was this NOT extraordinary circumstances? How many times since they began putting their PPs online has access to DRF PPs been down for multiple days straight?

This was posted by a DRF spokesperson on this site 10/3/2001.

3) As for our disaster plans, the big issue for us on the redundancy front was we closed down our back up server in Phoenix in '99 and are in the midst of a reengineering project that included restoring it. In other words, we got caught at a horribly bad time. I suspect we were not alone, in terms of not being fully backed up as much as we should have been.

Apparently, redundancy is still not quite effective 13 year later.

[bello]

Here we go gain....I cannot log in for tomorrow's PP's

Anyone else?

[proximity]

Here we go gain....I cannot log in for tomorrow's PP's

Anyone else?

loading adobe flash player............................................ ....................... :ThmbDown:

but, hey, we can still read the articles :ThmbUp: !!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Steve 'StatMan']

Not getting Formulator up right now, but I did get PDFS. I didn't need anything right now, so will try again in the AM.

[proximity]

looks like it's ok now!! :ThmbUp:

[Little Watermelon]

Was going to sign up for a Formulator plan tonight, the best type of PP's for me, at least. Public Handicapper used to offer a nice discount for 100 cards for the year, but changed the offer this year. Hope the site's working.

[Tom]

I don't know why some people are making this an issue. Does anyone think for a moment that DRF did this without permission from Equibase?



Happened to notice this statement at the bottom of an email offer from DRF today.....never seen it before, not to say it wasn't always there. BUt it's there now....

We are required to charge your credit card $0.01 in order to give you the free Formulator PP.

[Stillriledup]

Happened to notice this statement at the bottom of an email offer from DRF today.....never seen it before, not to say it wasn't always there. BUt it's there now....



Free has an entirely different meaning!