Are you rooting for CC to win the TC?

[Stillriledup]

First and foremost, i'm rooting for my wager, whatever it happens to be. If i see that my wager is "doomed" at the top of the lane (which happens quite often :D ) i will root for CC to win the TC.

I know some are rooting against him just because the TC is such a "gold standard" and the TC is synonymous with Secretariat and all time greatness, that anything less than "all time greatness' might bother some people and they don't want to see a horse like CC, who is not viewed as an all time great, accomplish this feat.

Are you in the "the tc is for legends only" camp or do you really want to see CC win this thing...and if you want to see him win, betting aside, why do you care.

My reason for rooting for CC is that i think its never a bad thing for small time connections to win this TC, its what dreams are made of and racing is banking on dreams, a win for CC and the talk show circuit might get new people interested in this game from an owning standpoint, and we can never have too many owners, so that's why i would think this is a good thing for the sport.

[FantasticDan]

Yes, I will only accept an undefeated triple crown champion that has the most regal of breeding and whose owners have the bluest of bloods. I also require that when he poops in the paddock or post parade, little patches of posies immediately sprout up in his wake. Anything less is not a true champion.

[Mr_Ed]

Though I don't believe he'll win:

California (C-biscuit) Chrome

[Dark Horse]

If (trademarked) "CC wins TC" it will be great for horse racing.

One race to decide if we'll talk about him for the next three weeks, or the next fifty years.

Will it happen this year? Probably not.

[HuggingTheRail]

Question: How much mainstream media attention (include sports networks such as ESPN, TSN etc) will there be if CC wins the TC??

[Dark Horse]

Question: How much mainstream media attention (include sports networks such as ESPN, TSN etc) will there be if CC wins the TC??

Exactly. It will be huge, especially with the range of these media (not there in the 1970's). It will be so big for horse racing that the others in the race may want to consider just giving the race to CC.

[Bullet Plane]

Yes, I'll be rooting for him to win the triple crown.

Just not sure that I'll be betting that way...

[andtheyreoff]

Of course. Especially since it's Tom Durkin's last Belmont.

And I find it hard for anyone to try and say that California Chrome isn't accomplished enough. He's won six straight races, including four graded stakes and three grade ones. What else could he have done for him to be considered worthy?

[NY BRED]

right now the huge winner is /are the manufacturers of the
nasal strips.

I'm p/o'd by the threats of the owners, would love to see the balance
of the field also wear strips...

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

[elhelmete]

Yes, I'll be rooting for him to win the triple crown.

Just not sure that I'll be betting that way...

This, in a nutshell.

[Zydeco]

Yes, I'll be rooting for him to win the triple crown.

Just not sure that I'll be betting that way...

Same here!

[elhelmete]

He's won six straight races, including four graded stakes and three grade ones. What else could he have done for him to be considered worthy?

Won a minor prep race, finished an improving third or fourth in a major prep. If he did that, he'd still be the annual sneaky wise guy horse heads and shoulders above the rest. :lol:

[PICSIX]

Yes :ThmbUp:

[ronsmac]

Yes.

[BettinBilly]

Yes, I'll be rooting for him to win the triple crown.

Just not sure that I'll be betting that way...

Indeed. Many Horseplayers are going to be in this boat. You'll have good company.

[wiffleball whizz]

Question.....

Is it possible if he wins the triple crown it's bad for racing??

I mean after the Sunday and Monday will it just fade into the sunset??

And in the future will the triple crown races have the juice this has? I've been thinking about this for the last 3 years....

I'm foaming at the mouth to see a TC winner..... But would it be old hat next year if the same situation is in play?

Would anybody care like they do this? In a way I think Belmont doesn't want to see him win as it can only hurt attendance next time a TC is on the line


An example of how bad I want to see this horse win everytime I put on espn and I see the bottom line in red with breaking news I'm praying the horse don't scratch....

Just wondering if anybody sees my logic here....

Short term great for racing long term really can't help

[Mystic]

Question.....

Is it possible if he wins the triple crown it's bad for racing??

I mean after the Sunday and Monday will it just fade into the sunset??

And in the future will the triple crown races have the juice this has? I've been thinking about this for the last 3 years....

I'm foaming at the mouth to see a TC winner..... But would it be old hat next year if the same situation is in play?

Would anybody care like they do this? In a way I think Belmont doesn't want to see him win as it can only hurt attendance next time a TC is on the line


An example of how bad I want to see this horse win everytime I put on espn and I see the bottom line in red with breaking news I'm praying the horse don't scratch....

Just wondering if anybody sees my logic here....

Short term great for racing long term really can't help

I don't see how this can be anything but good for the sport. How can CC hurt attendance for a future possible winner?

[QuarterCrack]

I'll be rooting for CC to win it. I've been betting races for about 15 years now, and each time a potential Triple Crown opportunity has presented itself over that time, I step back and revert from serious handicapper/bettor to SuperFan.. The betting goes out the window.

I know how hard it is, especially in this day and age, to pull off a Triple Crown, so I root hard for it to happen when the chance comes up, because I just want to see it at least once in my lifetime.

I was born in '78, so I missed Affirmed... And I fear that the longer time passes, the less likely a Triple Crown winner might be.. So if a horse wins the first two legs, I really want him to win the third... Hopefully it happens this year.

We'll see..

[Stillriledup]

Question.....

Is it possible if he wins the triple crown it's bad for racing??

I mean after the Sunday and Monday will it just fade into the sunset??

And in the future will the triple crown races have the juice this has? I've been thinking about this for the last 3 years....

I'm foaming at the mouth to see a TC winner..... But would it be old hat next year if the same situation is in play?

Would anybody care like they do this? In a way I think Belmont doesn't want to see him win as it can only hurt attendance next time a TC is on the line


An example of how bad I want to see this horse win everytime I put on espn and I see the bottom line in red with breaking news I'm praying the horse don't scratch....

Just wondering if anybody sees my logic here....

Short term great for racing long term really can't help

I know what you're saying, right now, the "Feat" is believed to be so hard to accomplish that if a non great horse accomplishes it, how do we react?

I think that when you watch movies like Seabiscuit and Secretariat, it has us STARVING for a great horse...some kind of horse who wins his races so easily that we KNOW he's just a freak of nature and a once in a century type of horse. We also believe (falsely?) that you need a GREAT horse to win the Triple Crown when in reality, we just need at least a pretty good horse who had everything fall his way at the right time.

If CC wins it, i don't know if we are going to annoint him in the same class as all time greats, but if we don't, we're going to have to deal with the fact that you don't need to be an "all time great" to win the Triple Crown and i think that's something we don't want to have to think about.

[wreckless]

If CC wins it, i don't know if we are going to annoint him in the same class as all time greats, but if we don't, we're going to have to deal with the fact that you don't need to be an "all time great" to win the Triple Crown and i think that's something we don't want to have to think about.

yep, that's the issue.

[QuarterCrack]

If CC wins it, i don't know if we are going to annoint him in the same class as all time greats, but if we don't, we're going to have to deal with the fact that you don't need to be an "all time great" to win the Triple Crown and i think that's something we don't want to have to think about.

This begs the question, in order to win the Triple Crown, is it a prerequisite to be one of the All-Time Greats?

I would say no, all one has to do to win the Triple Crown is hit the finish line first in the Derby, Preakness, and Belmont. After that, the history books will decide whether the horse was truly an All-Time Great or not.

It's hard enough as it is. Hasn't happened in 36 YEARS... There's nothing to anoint. It either happens or it doesn't. By virtue of the fact that it's been so long, and so many great horses have gone 2-out-of-3 since the last time it's happened, I REALLY don't think we need to feel guilty about a horse winning the Triple Crown if he happens to not be in the same breath as Secretariat or Seattle Slew or Count Fleet, etc. etc.

I mean, I'll reiterate - 36 YEARS... Why would it be an issue that "we don't want to have to think about"? Why wouldn't it just be a cause for celebration?

[Stillriledup]

This begs the question, in order to win the Triple Crown, is it a prerequisite to be one of the All-Time Greats?

I would say no, all one has to do to win the Triple Crown is hit the finish line first in the Derby, Preakness, and Belmont. After that, the history books will decide whether the horse was truly an All-Time Great or not.

It's hard enough as it is. Hasn't happened in 36 YEARS... There's nothing to anoint. It either happens or it doesn't. By virtue of the fact that it's been so long, and so many great horses have gone 2-out-of-3 since the last time it's happened, I REALLY don't think we need to feel guilty about a horse winning the Triple Crown if he happens to not be in the same breath as Secretariat or Seattle Slew or Count Fleet, etc. etc.

I mean, I'll reiterate - 36 YEARS... Why would it be an issue that "we don't want to have to think about"? Why wouldn't it just be a cause for celebration?

What i mean by that comment is that we don't want to ruin "christmas" sort of speak. Our "christmas morning" is waking up and dreaming of some horse to come along, like a Secretariat, so we can dream of sugar plumbs dancing in our heads. We don't want to have our dreams of a GREAT TC Champ shattered because if a non great horse wins it, its going to be like the day you found out that Santa Claus (the way we knew it as kids) doesn't really exist.

We can celebrate, but after the last streamer hits the ground and the last piece of paper is thrown out of the windows down the canyon of heroes in Manhattan, we still have a non great horse who won the Triple Crown.

[FantasticDan]

How many years have horses been trying to win the TC? 100? I don't even know. How many have done it? :11:

I don't care if they win their races by a nose or 31 lengths, any horse that does it is great. Period. :ThmbUp:

[Appy]

I don't think any of the Triple Crown winners were legends until AFTER they won the TC. Even then there were doubters. Time is what buries blemishes and creates legendary status.

[ultracapper]

This horse blows up at the top of the stretch like nobody else in this crop. If he came out of the Preakness OK and has his wheels under him, he'll win the Belmont. He gets a nice rest, there's no reason he can't take the Haskell or the Travers. This race coming up is the BIG ONE. He wins this, and there isn't anything in this crop stopping him from being called great. He wins this race, he very likely goes into the BC classic 8-8-0-0 for 2014.

I think he does it. I think, even more than being fast, he's good. He knows how to run a race.

[nomadpat]

I'm still not understanding how much a TC winner will help the sport. How long will he race after the Belmont?

It's one thing to get an attendance boost on big days, but not sure how him winning will translate more people betting an average card.

[ultracapper]

So we're concerned about a "non-great" horse winning the Triple Crown. Tell me, which of the 11 previous winners isn't a great horse? Exactly. He wins the Triple Crown, the word great will be thrown around generously. Deservedly so.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Of course it is good.

Regardless of whether or not he proves to be an elite racehorse upon the end of his career, if he wins the Belmont (barring any scandal), the story itself will be compelling enough that he'll be given the benefit of the doubt.

Small fish owners winning the Triple Crown - there isn't much better than that for the ownership aspect of the industry.

Small breeding operation cranking out a Triple Crown winner - there isn't much better than that for the breeding end of the industry.

Small (relatively speaking when we think of this stage) time trainer can actually win the Triple Crown - that's great for just about everyone but the handful or so of guys that seem to be perceived as competent enough to win these races recently.


This is the big horse.

This is the horse that keeps crippled, busted, and otherwise intelligent humans suffering day in and day out in this business. An impossible dream come true.

On the race track, the kind of faith and hope that a horse like this promotes among the masses might just surpass the faith and hope you'd find among regulars in the Vatican.

As much as we love the perfect horse, the Ivan Drago of racehorses, even the Russians can't help but root for the marble mouthed Italian from Philly with a bunch of nobodies in his corner.

I haven't been on board with this colt yet. But at this point, I'm actually thinking this is the first horse since the last Triple Crown winner with a shot to win it that I actually really think can continue the legacy in a way the racing really needs it.

The underdog, not the Westminster dog.

[ultracapper]

I'm still not understanding how much a TC winner will help the sport. How long will he race after the Belmont?

It's one thing to get an attendance boost on big days, but not sure how him winning will translate more people betting an average card.

Going into the summer months, on-track attendance will probably see a small boost for awhile. By the end of July though, it'll probably peter out. Old timers that haven't gone to the track in years will make a visit or two. 20-somethings will go and experience it for the first time. But it will wear off relatively fast I'd guess.

It will make literally millions of people aware of the sport in a way they've never looked at it before though. For millions of people, they will actually know the name of a living racehorse. They know Forego and Secretariat and Seabiscuit, but now they'll know a living, active racehorse. Two days after the Preakness 2013, 80% of the non-racing crowd that knew about Orb had already forgot his name. CC wins the Triple Crown, those same people will NEVER forget his name.

[thaskalos]

It will be great for the sport if California Chrome wins the TC...but the positive effects will probably wear out in about a week or so. The game does not belong to the thrice-a-year fan who gushes over the marquee races. It belongs to the hard-nosed horseplayer...who will have his nose buried in the PPs the following Monday...trying to find the winners at Suffolk Downs and the Finger Lakes. And, regrettably, this racing fan is not prone to long-lasting displays of sentimentality.

I could be wrong, of course...

[ultracapper]

johnhannibalsmith, you don't think Sackatoga Stables would have carried on the great horseracing legacy?

[mostpost]

What i mean by that comment is that we don't want to ruin "christmas" sort of speak. Our "christmas morning" is waking up and dreaming of some horse to come along, like a Secretariat, so we can dream of sugar plumbs dancing in our heads. We don't want to have our dreams of a GREAT TC Champ shattered because if a non great horse wins it, its going to be like the day you found out that Santa Claus (the way we knew it as kids) doesn't really exist.

We can celebrate, but after the last streamer hits the ground and the last piece of paper is thrown out of the windows down the canyon of heroes in Manhattan, we still have a non great horse who won the Triple Crown.

I hope you don't think that every horse who won the Triple Crown was a great horse, because that simply is not the case. Sir Barton was a maiden when he won the Triple Crown and after he won it he won less than half his races. Omaha won less than half his races and never won more than four in a row. Whirlaway lost twenty eight races. Assault won less than half the races he competed in and finished out of the money eleven times. There were some great horses who won the Triple Crown, but there were some who were not so great.

Some of the great ones, we did not know were great until after the Triple Crown. Gallant Fox wasn't even the favorite in the Belmont Stakes. Omaha had two victories in eleven starts prior to the Derby and was not the favorite in that race. War Admiral, Count Fleet and Citation were great and everyone knew it.

in the seventies there were even a few doubters about Secretariat, but very few. Seattle Slew was a monster. And Affirmed, well Affirmed had Alydar. Make no mistake, Affirmed was one of the all time greats, but his combined margin of victory in the Triple Crown was less than two lengths.

If California Chrome does win the Belmont Stakes and the Triple Crown, I think he will not have to take a back seat to any previous winners.

[johnhannibalsmith]

johnhannibalsmith, you don't think Sackatoga Stables would have carried on the great horseracing legacy?

I can't say that they wouldn't, but at the time I didn't real feel that way about Funny Cide for whatever reason.

I actually posted that and then almost edited myself to include Smarty Jones since I actually did feel the way about him that I do Chrome. But, I figured I might be able to spawn a new argument if I just left it as is. :D

[mostpost]

It will be great for the sport if California Chrome wins the TC...but the positive effects will probably wear out in about a week or so. The game does not belong to the thrice-a-year fan who gushes over the marquee races. It belongs to the hard-nosed horseplayer...who will have his nose buried in the PPs the following Monday...trying to find the winners at Suffolk Downs and the Finger Lakes. And, regrettably, this racing fan is not prone to long-lasting displays of sentimentality.

I could be wrong, of course...
The success of the Sport of horse racing can not depend on the hard nosed horseplayer. There simply are not enough of them. Nor can it depend on the person who watches and bets on the Kentucky Derby, then forgets about racing until the next Kentucky Derby. We are our own worst enemy. The negativity on this Forum is unrelenting. How many threads are there complaining about some stewards decision or another? How many can't just accept that they played the wrong horse? Every victory by horse you did not like is not because his trainer cheated.

Sometimes there is something more important than making money. If California Chrome wins the Belmont, there will be people here who will curse him because they lost a ten dollar bet. I'm talking about you Stillriledup.

Thaskalos, you are right that a Triple Crown winner by itself will have only a temporary effect. But combined with other actions by us regulars, by the tracks and by the media it could make a difference. i can dream.

[JustRalph]

If California Chrome does win the Belmont Stakes and the Triple Crown, I think he will not have to take a back seat to any previous winners.

So, you think he will win by 30+L and break the track record?

[mostpost]

So, you think he will win by 30+L and break the track record?
I doubt he will do that, but that isn't the point. If he wins, he will be one of twelve. Which of those was the greatest? Was it Secretarial because of his 31 lengths win in the Belmont? Was it Count Fleet who won the Belmont by 25 and was undefeated as a three year old? Was it Citation who won 19 out of 20 as a three year old. Or was it Seattle Slew who was unbeaten when he won the Triple Crown?

Or will it be California Chrome? Right now, obviously no. But who knows what the future holds.

[tucker6]

This horse blows up at the top of the stretch like nobody else in this crop. If he came out of the Preakness OK and has his wheels under him, he'll win the Belmont. He gets a nice rest, there's no reason he can't take the Haskell or the Travers. This race coming up is the BIG ONE. He wins this, and there isn't anything in this crop stopping him from being called great. He wins this race, he very likely goes into the BC classic 8-8-0-0 for 2014.

I think he does it. I think, even more than being fast, he's good. He knows how to run a race.
The bolded cannot be typed enough times. As a 3 yo colt, he has excellent mobility and patience around the track. I certainly don't see that very often on the track.

[highnote]

Of course. Especially since it's Tom Durkin's last Belmont.

And I find it hard for anyone to try and say that California Chrome isn't accomplished enough. He's won six straight races, including four graded stakes and three grade ones. What else could he have done for him to be considered worthy?


And CC has done it at several different racetracks.

[highnote]

So we're concerned about a "non-great" horse winning the Triple Crown. Tell me, which of the 11 previous winners isn't a great horse? Exactly. He wins the Triple Crown, the word great will be thrown around generously. Deservedly so.


It's kind of like, the doctor who graduates at the bottom of his class in medical school. You still call him doctor.

Even if CC is the slowest of the TC winners, he is still a TC winner.

[wiffleball whizz]

If he wins he's in the same air as the others.....

[wiffleball whizz]

And CC has done it at several different racetracks.


How else would he be going for the triple crown :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :lol: :lol:

In order to be going for a triple crown you have to have won on at least 3 tracks going into the Belmont......

[rastajenk]

Two tracks. While a win at a third or fourth track would seem likely, it wouldn't be absolutely necessary.

[wiffleball whizz]

Two tracks. While a win at a third or fourth track would seem likely, it wouldn't be absolutely necessary.

U gotta win at 3......a prep then then the derby then preakness...

Is there a prep at CD that can springboard a TC winner? Not the derby trial lololo

[rastajenk]

If you insist, here's how: Some two-year-old wins, including the Ky Jockey Club stakes at Churchill...then a series of seconditis in the spring preps. With the usual winnowing out process of injuries and disappointing efforts, that would get you in the gate. As I said, unlikely, but possible. Then there was Nationalore...

[jahura2]

Yes, I'll be rooting for him to win the triple crown.

Just not sure that I'll be betting that way...


My sentiments exactly.

[BlueChip@DRF]

Hmmmm... "California Chrome and Dumb Ass Partners have just won the Triple Crown!" "It feels good to be a Dumb Ass right now!"

Is this how history will make us remember?

[Johnny V]

Yes, I hope he wins the TC. I would love to see it. It has been too long. In addition racing can use any positive publicity it can get. It can only help the game even if only in the short term. Whether or not that translates into any increased so called "fan" base going forward I doubt it.

[Mystic]

Hmmmm... "California Chrome and Dumb Ass Partners have just won the Triple Crown!" "It feels good to be a Dumb Ass right now!"

Is this how history will make us remember?

I will be wearing this on Belmont day :D

http://images.teespring.com/shirt_pic/876626/113020/front.jpg?v=2014-05-17-22-36

[highnote]

How else would he be going for the triple crown :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :lol: :lol:

In order to be going for a triple crown you have to have won on at least 3 tracks going into the Belmont......


I wasn't commenting on his TC run. I was commenting on the fact that he has won at 5 different tracks in his short career -- and from distances of 4.5 furlongs to 10 -- and synthetic and dirt. That is what makes him a good horse -- his versatility.

If he runs on turf and wins that would be remarkable also because it would be 3 different surfaces. Secretariat only won on dirt and turf. Of course, Secretariat set 3 track records and a world record on his TC run.

Secretariat won the Derby by running more than 4 seconds faster than Chrome. Secretariat's 1:59 2/5 Derby time still stands as the record.

His Preakness and Belmont Stakes times still are records for those races.

Think about that... for 41 years Secretariat has held the record for the fastest times in the Triple Crown races.

Even if Chrome wins the TC he is not in the same league as Secretariat except to say that they both won TCs.

That's why I wrote that even the worst doctor is still called Doctor.

The slowest TC winner is still a TC winner. Some horse has to be the slowest.

[clocker7]

Think about that... for 41 years Secretariat has held the record for the fastest times in the Triple Crown races.

Those raw times were as much of a product of the track speed in 1973 as they were of his immense talent. Remember, earlier on the card (when KD undercards were very lame) a 2yo nobody ran only 2 ticks slower than the track record in a sprint race. And in the KD itself, Sham ran faster than any other runner to date.

So it's obvious ... had Secretariat run on a par CD strip, his time undoubtedly would have been 3 or 4 ticks slower. Undoubtedly. The same could be said about the Belmont, only more ticks. The Preakness? Go thru Secretariat's PPs to see what DRF track variant he had, compared to others in different years. Again, a blistering fast track.

[depalma113]

The slowest TC winner is still a TC winner. Some horse has to be the slowest.


What are you talking about? California Chrome's Derby was nearly two seconds faster than Citation's. His Preakness was nearly eight seconds faster. He's not even close to being the slowest.

[highnote]

What are you talking about? California Chrome's Derby was nearly two seconds faster than Citation's. His Preakness was nearly eight seconds faster. He's not even close to being the slowest.


I didn't say Cal Chrome is the slowest. I said the slowest TC winner is still a TC winner.

For the record... California Chrome is not a TC winner... yet.

[highnote]

Those raw times were as much of a product of the track speed in 1973 as they were of his immense talent. Remember, earlier on the card (when KD undercards were very lame) a 2yo nobody ran only 2 ticks slower than the track record in a sprint race.

My friend's horse set the track record at 4 furlongs at GG with his 2 year old. It's easier to run closer to the track record in a sprint than a route. It happens everyday.

I get closer to the world record in the 100 meters than I do the world record of 10,000 kilometers.

And in the KD itself, Sham ran faster than any other runner to date.

Sham was a very good racehorse. He just happened to run up against Secretariat.



So it's obvious ... had Secretariat run on a par CD strip, his time undoubtedly would have been 3 or 4 ticks slower.

Secretariat won the Derby more than 4 seconds faster than Chrome -- not 4/5ths of a second.

Secretariat ran the Preakness almost 2 seconds faster than Chrome.

Secretariat ran classic distances seconds faster than Chrome -- not 5ths.

Undoubtedly. The same could be said about the Belmont, only more ticks. The Preakness? Go thru Secretariat's PPs to see what DRF track variant he had, compared to others in different years. Again, a blistering fast track.

It remains to be seen whether Chrome can get anywhere near Secretariat's Belmont time of 2:24.

[clocker7]

Secretariat's raw TC times (and some later races, too) were substantially inflated due to the track speed bias that was fairly prevalent at the time. Not his fault, it just was.

[tucker6]

What are you talking about? California Chrome's Derby was nearly two seconds faster than Citation's. His Preakness was nearly eight seconds faster. He's not even close to being the slowest.
Four TC champions finished the Belmont north of 2:30.0, so I agree with you.

[tucker6]

Secretariat's raw TC times (and some later races, too) were substantially inflated due to the track speed bias that was fairly prevalent at the time. Not his fault, it just was.
Then why, except for the KD, was he the only one to set a track record in any of his races as a 3 yo? No one has proven to me that this speed bias was commonplace across so many different tracks in 1973. Who was in on this conspiracy?

[highnote]

Secretariat's raw TC times (and some later races, too) were substantially inflated due to the track speed bias that was fairly prevalent at the time. Not his fault, it just was.


So let's slow Sec's Derby time down by 2 seconds due to fast track and let's speed up Cal Chrome's Derby time by 2 seconds due to slow track and that will make Cal Chrome just as fast as Secretariat. :D

[PaceAdvantage]

I don't see how this can be anything but good for the sport. How can CC hurt attendance for a future possible winner?It will do as much for the game as Zenyatta did...

[wiffleball whizz]

Belterra park won't be jammed 2 days after CC wins....

Mth won't be packed the following Saturday if CC wins

Golden gate will be the same....

Effects will ware off a week after it happens


Anybody that thinks this will give racing a shot in the arm after the Belmont is nuts.....

My question is do they make a race for him at Los al and does he race in it? My answer is yes

[highnote]

Secretariat's raw TC times (and some later races, too) were substantially inflated due to the track speed bias that was fairly prevalent at the time. Not his fault, it just was.


A colleague emailed me. He said he made figures for both Secretariat's Derby and Chrome's. He figures Secretariat is about 10-11 lengths faster than Chrome.

He agrees the CD track was souped up for Secretariat's Derby. He said if you adjust Secretariat's raw time it comes out to about 2:01.1. Chrome's variant brings him to about 2:03.2.

The 2:01.1 to 2:03.2 is almost exactly the difference between his figures -- 10 lengths.

He says it is a rough comparison, yet fairly accurate.

[Mystic]

Well he sure looks great and is bright eyed and sassy :)

http://inthemoneypost.com/video-california-chrome-arrives-at-belmont-park/

[luisbe]

Well he sure looks great and is bright eyed and sassy :)

http://inthemoneypost.com/video-california-chrome-arrives-at-belmont-park/

I rooted lately for Big Brown then I'll Have Another and now for Chrome.
I'll see the field for the bets, I think is an excellent opportunity for the three horses to win players. There'll be interesting overlays in an always complicated race.

[LottaKash]

Handicapping aside, I truly believe that, all or at least most horseplayers of all skill and fan levels, are always rooting for a TC Champion....Me, included....

After all it is such a lofty goal, as it may be analgous to trying to handicap a PICK-3 sequence, when all of the three fields are highly contentious and robust in numbers, and then having to make the P-3 play using only one pick per leg.....High odds against, here too...

I think that is why we/most will be rooting for CC all the way....It is a hard-hit..

[Vinnie]

A colleague emailed me. He said he made figures for both Secretariat's Derby and Chrome's. He figures Secretariat is about 10-11 lengths faster than Chrome.

He agrees the CD track was souped up for Secretariat's Derby. He said if you adjust Secretariat's raw time it comes out to about 2:01.1. Chrome's variant brings him to about 2:03.2.

The 2:01.1 to 2:03.2 is almost exactly the difference between his figures -- 10 lengths.

He says it is a rough comparison, yet fairly accurate.

Secretariat:

Greatest ever bar none! The Michael Jordan of horse racing. But, the last time I checked still "not perfect". Even though he was by any reasonable explanation the very "BEST OF THE BEST"; the ultimate race horse!!! Even Big Red lost races. He was literally the ultimate "machine of a racehorse". There will never be another one like him again. How does this have anything to do with CC?

[mannyberrios]

No

[HuggingTheRail]

It will do as much for the game as Zenyatta did...

Is that all?

[highnote]

Secretariat:
How does this have anything to do with CC?


Comparison's between Triple Crown contenders and Triple Crown winners are inevitable.

CC ran a slow final time in the Derby. Secretariat ran a fast final time.

If the races weren't timed then win/loss, money earned, stud fees and progeny earnings might be the way we compare horses across the ages.

The reason for breeding thoroughbreds is to improve the breed. Speed and stamina are two attributes that are prized in thoroughbreds by owners, breeders, fans and bettors.

So final time is an important factor in knowing if the breed is improving.

Now we've come full circle -- CC ran a slow final time. Secretariat ran a fast final time. Is the breed improving or are thoroughbreds of this generation UNABLE to run the classic distances as fast as their ancestors?

Secretariat is sort of a benchmark by which all thoroughbreds get measured against.

[magwell]

I wont be betting him but I wont bet against him, His breeding doesn't call for 1 1/2 but his great disposition may overcome that, especially with his running stye. I just hope the jock doesn't move to soon and mess it up........GO Chrome

[nijinski]

Of course , I have to root for him

http://www.horsecollaborative.com/california-chrome-foal/

[PaceAdvantage]

Is that all?May not even be that much if he retires after 3. At least Zenyatta stuck around for a while...

[HUSKER55]

CC has too many pluses to ignore going to the Belmont. Just for the sake of debate,....SUPPOSE CC beats Secretariat's time.

Will he become the greatest horse of all time?

[Grits]

No.

[Grits]

Coming back to this. My "no" reply was in answer to Huskers question--greatest of all time. Rooting for him to win, sure. As we've witnessed repeatedly though, Belmont is the true test of mettle. Belmont is the reason we only have 11 of them.

[HUSKER55]

so if CC beats the best time ever and wins the triple crown he is mediocre.


Have you had breakfast yet today? ;) :D

[Smarty Cide]

i say ride him like hes f*cking Secretariat. Pretty sure i read Espinoza saying he hasn't even asked him for everything he got yet. If thats true thats scary.


Let him run, Victor!!!

[horses4courses]

i say ride him like hes f*cking Secretariat. Pretty sure i read Espinoza saying he asking even asked him for everything he got yet. If thats true thats scary.


Let him run, Victor!!!

Nah, there will be other dances down the road.
Only do what you have to.
Three big races in five weeks is asking so much.

The key point in the race should be between the 3/8ths pole and the 1/4 pole.
That will be "go time".

Whatever happens after that is anyone's guess.
Most everyone is hoping for a happy ending.

[Smarty Cide]

if he wins, think they retire him?

[horses4courses]

if he wins, think they retire him?

The only way that I see that happening is if he's hurt.
He probably won't run until the Pacific Classic, though.

[Smarty Cide]

when is that?

[horses4courses]

when is that?

Late August, I think.

[GaryG]

The key point in the race should be between the 3/8ths pole and the 1/4 pole.
That will be "go time".I think Victor will need to wait a little bit longer. It is a lot harder to put away the Belmont with a big move like he usually makes. Visions of Smarty and Real Quiet come to mind. Best of luck CC!

[Mystic]

Here he is this morning at Belmont.(video towards bottom)

http://www.paulickreport.com/video/california-chrome-feeling-good-in-first-belmont-jog/

[Mystic]

It will do as much for the game as Zenyatta did...
Well at least this is getting a lot more media coverage. I have people at my job that could care-a-less about horse racing asking me about it. Will they go bet, "no", but at least this has piqued their curiosity and I would bet they even tune in to watch. They have no clue who Zenyatta is :D

[ArlJim78]

there is definitely a buzz at the office this week, people know I'm into horse racing come up and start talking about the triple crown. it's amazing how many people know about the so-called nasal strip issue. must have been picked up on ESPN.

[The WindfallAngler]

i say ride him like hes f*cking Secretariat. Pretty sure i read Espinoza saying he hasn't even asked him for everything he got yet. If thats true thats scary.


Let him run, Victor!!!Unwise. Cc was asked: After Pablo Del Monte and the filly /b/o/t/h/ /r/a/b/b/i/t/t/s/ had /T/a/k/e/n/ /O/n/e/ /F/o/r/ /T/h/e/ /T/e/a/m/fallen on their swords (in vain), Social Inclusion performed HIS kamakazi move.

This undoubtedly forced California Chrome from his comfort zone. And, to some extent, had to cost CC more in reserves, keeping Ride On Curlin safe, late. Crown Three could be of the same, with multi-phased /t/a/g/ /t/e/a/m/ moves intended to wear California Chrome down /u/p/s/e/t/ /t/h/e/ /a/p/p/l/e/ /c/a/r/t/.

[HuggingTheRail]

May not even be that much if he retires after 3. At least Zenyatta stuck around for a while...

I say this someone tongue in cheek....

The way some people talk, I was thinking this would preempt network tv for a week....

[HUSKER55]

I would. But I am a little more greedy than most people. Why would you risk losing a horse like that. Remember Eight Bells? That hurt by the way. I really liked that horse.

The owners can make good money breeding the horse. Why risk it? CC has proved himself to everyone.

If he wins the triple crown then what is the point?

[highnote]

I would. But I am a little more greedy than most people. Why would you risk losing a horse like that. Remember Eight Bells? That hurt by the way. I really liked that horse.

The owners can make good money breeding the horse. Why risk it? CC has proved himself to everyone.

If he wins the triple crown then what is the point?


Secretariat won the TC and raced afterwards. If CC could win on grass then he would have wins on 3 different surfaces at at least three different tracks.

CC's pedigree is not bad, but I would not be surprised to see others in his generation with high stud fees.

[ultracapper]

It will do as much for the game as Zenyatta did...

It will be different than the Zenyatta phenomenon. I had a non-racing fan family member very disappointed during that period when she learned that Zenyatta was still considered a great horse even though she had never won the Kentucky Derby. "She didn't win the Kentucky Derby? What's the big deal then?" Seriously, undefeated, BC Classic winner, Horse-of-the-Year, to the casual or non-racing fan, this means nothing compared to winning the Kentucky Derby.

[ILovetheInner]

I would. But I am a little more greedy than most people. Why would you risk losing a horse like that. Remember Eight Bells? That hurt by the way. I really liked that horse.

The owners can make good money breeding the horse. Why risk it? CC has proved himself to everyone.

If he wins the triple crown then what is the point?

The point is where he fits in history. A quick retirement and you don't know. Secretariat retired quickly, but he was already syndicated and it probably "was best." Slew and Affirmed were not. We know what they are. We certainly know Secretariat was absolutely spectacular through his TC bid and was cut from something different, but what he was in the aftermath is a lingering question, IMO. The 4th place finisher in the KYD, and actually the Blood-Horse's pick to win the race after Secretariat's Wood, was Forego. For some who were around back then, that's a lingering question. If Secretariat were to have given weight to Forego....what then? There was a three time Horse of the Year in Secretariat's crop, and his name was not Sham. It was not Secretariat, either. It was a huge and relatively unsound gelding who, unraced at two, hadn't quite found his racing muse yet. With Slew or Affirmed, you have no questions. They stuck around (Slew having to fight death back to do it), and met their generation and more. They even met each other. Slew's TC in many contexts is a footnote. His performances afterwards received far more accolades and are that by which, to many, he is most identified by. Secretariat's crop included not only him but an eventual icon in the handicap division, who knew where the wire was and had the heart of a tiger, with the flex to win from 7f to two miles.

We don't question Secretariat's legacy because his TC was so spectacular. But were one of the promising colts this year to have missed the crown resurface and turn into a racing star with Chrome, should he win the TC, retired, it will always be a question.

[thaskalos]

It will be different than the Zenyatta phenomenon. I had a non-racing fan family member very disappointed during that period when she learned that Zenyatta was still considered a great horse even though she had never won the Kentucky Derby. "She didn't win the Kentucky Derby? What's the big deal then?" Seriously, undefeated, BC Classic winner, Horse-of-the-Year, to the casual or non-racing fan, this means nothing compared to winning the Kentucky Derby.

The non-racing fans who think this way are destined to forever remain "non-racing fans".