A new rider for Social Inclusion...

[onefast99]

“He didn’t break well. He hit the gate at the break,” Sanchez said. “We are satisfied and happy. The horse is healthy. That’s horse racing. You got to deal with winning and losing.”

Though Sanchez believes California Chrome “has the biggest shot to win the Triple Crown in the last 25 years,” he said he plans to run Social Inclusion against him in the Belmont.

“We’re going to New York to run in the Belmont,” Sanchez said. “We definitely have to work with him at the gate.”

Sanchez said Social Inclusion would likely stay at Pimlico until the weekend before shipping to New York.

Sanchez said he may make a rider change as well. Luis Contreras has ridden Social Inclusion in all four of his starts. Sanchez said he will sit down and talk with trainer Manny Azpurua about jockeys.

“We are going to discuss that and work it out,” Sanchez said. “We will see what choices we have.”

[magwell]

The way he fell apart before the race, he will need more than a new jock, but they do have 3 weeks to figure it out, it didn't look like he was happy.......

[Saratoga_Mike]

Maybe a nasal strip would do the trick?

[onefast99]

Maybe a nasal strip would do the trick?
Working the horse 3f won't...

[ArlJim78]

In his stakes races he's lost by 3 1/2 lengths at 9 furlongs and by approx 7 lengths at 9 1/2 furlongs. Is it really the best move to now go out to 12 furlongs against the very same horses who've twice had no trouble running right by him? good luck with that.

I think it's a talented horse who needs new managment more than a new rider.

[TheEdge07]

In his stakes races he's lost by 3 1/2 lengths at 9 furlongs and by approx 7 lengths at 9 1/2 furlongs. Is it really the best move to now go out to 12 furlongs against the very same horses who've twice had no trouble running right by him? good luck with that.

I think it's a talented horse who needs new managment more than a new rider.

Jim to be fair wouldnt you said hes had two pretty tough trips?

[JustRalph]

Jim to be fair wouldnt you said hes had two pretty tough trips?

It doesn't change the basic math that Jim quotes. Cut the lengths he lost in half, due to the trip. He still loses and now he's going 12f.

This horse needs a major do-over.......

[TheEdge07]

It doesn't change the basic math that Jim quotes. Cut the lengths he lost in half, due to the trip. He still loses and now he's going 12f.

This horse needs a major do-over.......

Good point:ThmbUp:

[elhelmete]

I said in another thread that I think it's equally probable that a) SI wins a G1, and b) he never wins again. IMHO he's teetering on the edge.

[onefast99]

I said in another thread that I think it's equally probable that a) SI wins a G1, and b) he never wins again. IMHO he's teetering on the edge.
You based this on his pp's 4 running lines 2 shows in grade 1's, one of them a classic. Interesting deduction.

[Robert Fischer]

The frustration from the owner is understandable. Perhaps he should consider sticking with the familiar and able Contreras for another chance.

The Preakness angle on Social Inclusion wasn't that he was better than California Chrome, - it was that he could cross over in front of the field and have a puncher's chance to wire the field.

Social Inclusion never got to throw that haymaker.

Like the Wood, he failed to bounce out of the gate onto the lead.
Long-shot, Pablo Del Monte instead was the horse to cross over the field on the lead.

Once he was 3 wide on even terms with everyone else, he had no "advantage" left. Only fans could hope for Social Inclusion to show a new gear and contend from out wide on even terms.


Social Inclusion and his connections were extremely fortunate that Ria Antonia stopped, and forced General a Rod to check back sharply, - or Social Inclusion would have been a clear 4th and been awarded $75,000 less in purse money.


Q: Is it Contreras' fault that Social Inclusion is unable to show enough tactical speed to gain the lead?
-A: It actually seems to be SI's characteristic of being a mediocre gate horse, although it is also very possible that Contreras or another jock could get SI to break on the lead in 12F Belmont Stakes.

[ArlJim78]

Jim to be fair wouldnt you said hes had two pretty tough trips?
okay in the Wood he was wide but I can't excuse the late fade for a horse who is supposed to be a strong contender for the spring classics. In the Preakness I have no idea what was so tough for him. I think California Chrome had the tougher trip. SI drew up along side of California Chrome and they both quickened together and within a furlong SI was gased while Chrome was still bounding along and holding off the late charge of ROC.
Even with a perfect trip and pace in the Belmont I can't see any way that SI could pull it off. He runs too much of his race early on, not evenly paced enough for 12 furlongs. Frankly I'm somewhat stunned that they are even considering it. IMO he needs shorter distances and probably 1 turn would be right in his wheelhouse.
I also think the horse has some issues they need to work on. He did not look happy as they were loading on Sat.

[onefast99]

To answer both of the above posts SI hit the gate on the way out(watch the head on if you have it) he was also very fractious in the gate before the Preakness, nervous is an understatement for this horse. The owners are putting "some' of the blame on the jockey it seems.

[SecretAgentMan]

Social needs a new trainer......simply crazy to run him back to Belmont at 1 1/2 miles......insane is more like it!

Azpurua is no Baffert or Pletcher. Even Baffert couldn't get Bode to win a TC race with a few career starts & not much foundation. Although Bode was a much better colt than Social is, as a trainer, you gotta know what your horse is possibly capable of.

Socials trainer has no clue........

[Mineshaft]

Social needs a new trainer......simply crazy to run him back to Belmont at 1 1/2 miles......insane is more like it!

Azpurua is no Baffert or Pletcher. Even Baffert couldn't get Bode to win a TC race with a few career starts & not much foundation. Although Bode was a much better colt than Social is, as a trainer, you gotta know what your horse is possibly capable of.

Socials trainer has no clue........





That could be said for alot of trainers

[PaceAdvantage]

That could be said for alot of trainersAnd a lot of message board posters

[Tall One]

In his stakes races he's lost by 3 1/2 lengths at 9 furlongs and by approx 7 lengths at 9 1/2 furlongs. Is it really the best move to now go out to 12 furlongs against the very same horses who've twice had no trouble running right by him? good luck with that.

I think it's a talented horse who needs new managment more than a new rider.


This is the correct answer.

If you look at his workout tab, it reminds me of a long sprinter or miler. Not a horse being pointed for classic races and distances.

Horse needs some time off from the track to mature as well. IMO.

[onefast99]

This is the correct answer.

If you look at his workout tab, it reminds me of a long sprinter or miler. Not a horse being pointed for classic races and distances.

Horse needs some time off from the track to mature as well. IMO.
Unraced as a 2y/o very sharp races in his maiden and allownace. Rough start in the Preakness as well as a bad trip in the Wood. Trainer thinks he is going to get a lot out of this one by working him 3f and 4f, it is evident to most that the training thus far of this horse is his biggest nemesis.

[Tall One]

I believe his longest w/o to date was his 5F move at Pimlico last week, 99.

I think this horse has a tremendous upside down the road, but it seems they're placing him with regard to potential, and not where he is now physically/mentally. The Wood & Preakness entries made sense, but stretching him this far is questionable to say the least.

[Rex Phinney]

This is a colt who is somewhat talented but running very green, he needs a few more second tier races to figure out how to run, in the Preakness he was all over the place didn't seem to know when to start or stop. Crazy thing is he still has hit the board twice in G1.

With this management crew though the horse has no chance, they are entering him in over his head now for the third time and second time in three weeks, throw in there the scratch and shipping involved and they are pretty close to the point where the horse will never win again. He's green, he's confused, he's upset and he is running like it.

I say if they must run at belmont try the met mile, but even better would be to regroup, relax, find an easy race for now, and then try the Haskell.

[onefast99]

This is a colt who is somewhat talented but running very green, he needs a few more second tier races to figure out how to run, in the Preakness he was all over the place didn't seem to know when to start or stop. Crazy thing is he still has hit the board twice in G1.

With this management crew though the horse has no chance, they are entering him in over his head now for the third time and second time in three weeks, throw in there the scratch and shipping involved and they are pretty close to the point where the horse will never win again. He's green, he's confused, he's upset and he is running like it.

I say if they must run at belmont try the met mile, but even better would be to regroup, relax, find an easy race for now, and then try the Haskell.
I would love to see him at my hometown track Monmouth Park. I agree with everything you wrote. My issue is now with the trainer the 5f work at Pimlico was actually a 4f work where he worked in 47 flat out in 6f at 1.13.60 and that raised a few eyebrows. Ron Sanchez came back and said Contreras had so much horse he couldn't slow him down. The clockers handed him that 6f number and the trainer commented that he wasn't looking to work him past 4f, in fact Happymyway blew by him in that last 2f and we all saw what he did on Preakness day!

[pandy]

Reminds me of so many speed horses, Hard Spun comes to mind, that should have been looking for shorter distance races rather than go in the Belmont. I would be pointing Social Inclusion to the Haskell over Monmouth's speed favoring track.

[Rex Phinney]

I don't know for sure that the horse is a speed only one trick pony, many times when they are young trainers let them run out front because it is the easiest thing todo, and if the talent is there they can win alot of races that way, then later on when it is required they try to rate the horse.

I've watched Baffert do this time and time again, as long as the horse has more talent than those he is racing, let it rip. But you can't do it like that forever, at least not if you want to run in route races.

My gut says the connections are a little starry eyed and seeking the knockout punch before they even know if the fighter likes boxing gloves.

I don't have a problem with going in the Wood, because you have to take a shot, maybe the horse will be a natural, but at this point it's obvious he's not. The right handling could put them right in the mix for the Haskell and get the horse to Breeders Cup day on a track that he should absolutely love. But they are going to need to take off the blinders and see a little more big picture.

[pandy]

I don't think he's a one dimensional horse, either, he can probably race as a stalker, but he is that type of horse that would do his best at shorter distances. Hard Spun could have been a champion sprinter/miler.

[Mineshaft]

And a lot of message board posters





I call it like i see it

[Rex Phinney]

If they ever took their time with him this horse at Santa Anita in the BC Dirt Mile could be devastatingly good IMO.

[Robert Fischer]

Hard Spun could have been a champion sprinter/miler.

Maybe Hard Spun could have been, but I don't see a lot of issues with his stamina that year(or his campaign in general).


-07 Derby - 2nd 10F It took a freaky ride from Borel on a live Street Sense to prevent Hard Spun from winning the KD.

-07 Preakness - 3rd 9.5F Hard Spun was taken on an insane premature run just after the 4Fcall. Ran 3rd behind Curlin Street Sense and their perfect trips.

-07 Belmont - 4th 12F Hard Spun didn't get the 12F as good as the best horses (Curlin, Rags to Riches). Odd slow pace, but no real excuses.

-07 Haskell - 2nd 9F to a freakish Any Given Saturday, ahead of Curlin(3rd). Not a real distance test, but still 9F and a legit Grade 1 level competition.

-07 King's Bishop - 1st 7F There you go, 1st 7f sprint.

-07 Kentucky Cup Classic - 1st 9F , beat Street Sense 9F polytrack.

-07 Breeder's Cup Classic - 2nd 10F to Curlin in good time 10F.

[Sunday Silence]

Guarantee this is the owners feeling desperate after turning down 8M for the horse.

[onefast99]

Guarantee this is the owners feeling desperate after turning down 8M for the horse.
I don't know for sure they got an offer like that, despite what the connections say that is life changing $$$$.

[letswastemoney]

I just don't think Social Inclusion is only a sprinter yet. He needs an aggressive ride out of the gate...Mike Smith would fit him well.

A lot of speed horses are stereotyped into being sprinters/milers, and maybe eventually I'll see it, but not off four starts where he hit the board in all three route efforts.

Hard Spun was certainly a fine route horse. Just got unlucky in the Derby when Borel shot through the rail, and Curlin was a monster in the BC Classic.

[clocker7]

I just don't think Social Inclusion is only a sprinter yet. He needs an aggressive ride out of the gate...Mike Smith would fit him well.

A lot of speed horses are stereotyped into being sprinters/milers, and maybe eventually I'll see it, but not off four starts where he hit the board in all three route efforts.

Hard Spun was certainly a fine route horse. Just got unlucky in the Derby when Borel shot through the rail, and Curlin was a monster in the BC Classic.
In theory what you say is true, especially for a young horse. But if you had to set the odds line, it would probably lean toward 8f or 9f as his optimal distance. If he had only backed up a length or two in his last two outings (that were less than 10f), then there might be greater slack granted. But as of today, he's looking more and more like the modern Tbred that struggles going longer than 9f.

[onefast99]

Connections are now 50/50 on the Belmont.
It's not even a sure thing yet that Social Inclusion will race, as Daily Racing Form's David Grening (https://twitter.com/DRFGrening/status/468390702175379457) reported he was a 50-50 shot. But the stakes are high, and trainer Manny J. Azpurua knows his horse has as good of a shot as anyone to knock off California Chrome.


Don't expect anything but Social Inclusion's best come race day!

[LottaKash]

Connections are now 50/50 on the Belmont.
It's not even a sure thing yet that Social Inclusion will race, as Daily Racing Form's David Grening (https://twitter.com/DRFGrening/status/468390702175379457) reported he was a 50-50 shot. But the stakes are high, and trainer Manny J. Azpurua knows his horse has as good of a shot as anyone to knock off California Chrome.


Don't expect anything but Social Inclusion's best come race day!

But one thing is for sure, SI will have to improve, a whole lot, from what he has shown thus far, and he will have to go longer as well...

Will he improve that much, and get the longer(est) journey ?...Me, I am not seeing it.....

Still, 3yo's are a funny bunch...

[onefast99]

But one thing is for sure, SI will have to improve, a whole lot, from what he has shown thus far, and he will have to go longer as well...

Will he improve that much, and get the longer(est) journey ?...Me, I am not seeing it.....

Still, 3yo's are a funny bunch...
He has galloped a mile and an eighth and a mile at Pimlico , they will breeze him on Tuesday. There was a post the trainer has been working him with blinkers but I haven't seen any related stories on that.

Social Inclusion, the first Kentucky Derby horse to arrive at Pimlico earlier this month for the Preakness Stakes galloped a mile at Pimlico Race Course Saturday morning, and will leave for Belmont Park on Sunday morning.

Owner Ron Sanchez has not decided whether his horse will run in the Belmont Stakes or the $150,000 Easy Goer Stakes in two weeks.

Social Inclusion finished third in last week's Preakness.

[Tall One]

There was a post the trainer has been working him with blinkers but I haven't seen any related stories on that.




Week before Preakness, Migliore mentioned it on NYRA's national race replay show. Said he was surprised to see SI was still working out in blinkers, and it wasn't said in a positive tone.

[luisbe]

Second time loose bandages for this horse training. I hope one day we see a Pro coaching this one.

[davew]

Not sure if even going to start, but my sportsbook has SI at 39/1 which got $10 of mine.

[Run Nicholas Run]

did they name Annibal or Edgar Prado yet?

[onefast99]

Irad Ortiz Jr. has been named on SI most likely in the Woody. Gate work tomorrow morning and again on Thursday or Friday.

[Rex Phinney]

Irad Ortiz Jr. has been named on SI most likely in the Woody. Gate work tomorrow morning and again on Thursday or Friday.

FWIW if he handles the gate tomorrow I think he is going in the Belmont. IMO there is no other reason to wait this long to declare a race

[ArlJim78]

our long national nightmare is over, SI will run in the Woody Stephens according to tweet.

[davew]

Belmont stakes purse 6X as big as Woody Stephens, I know where I would run

(or enter both and see how post position draw looks)

[onefast99]

our long national nightmare is over, SI will run in the Woody Stephens according to tweet.
Sanchez still undecided gate work this am to decide SI's next race, may wait until the Haskell if all isn't right.

[depalma113]

Horse was antsy again at the gate this morning. He has ben cleared to run, but they would like him to come back fro more schooling on Friday. per DRF live.

[onefast99]

Horse was antsy again at the gate this morning. He has ben cleared to run, but they would like him to come back fro more schooling on Friday. per DRF live.
They are entering him in the Woody that in itself is a good decision, the gate is away from the crowd and they will have the right personnel to handle him.

[Robert Goren]

They are entering him in the Woody that in itself is a good decision, the gate is away from the crowd and they will have the right personnel to handle him. A great move. He goes from a snowball's chance to a excellent chance to win. He probably be getting a little of my money if I get any odds at all.

[Wickel]

The Belmont is very kind to early speed, and I thought Social Inclusion had a shot to clear early and control the pace. That being said, he should dominate the Woody Stephens with a similar trip. In the Belmont, look for Cal Chrome to control the pace throughout.

[onefast99]

He has that outside post again but 7f is his savior. Bayern inside of him shouldn't be an issue.