2 Mismanaged horses...

[TheEdge07]

Social Inclusion
Ria Atonia

Poor job by both outfits..

[Robert Fischer]

Social Inclusion just picked up $165K in earnings and has earned $314K in 4 starts. He's also been reportedly drawing significant offers from other ownership.

Hard to be too critical of their management of the horse.


Ria Antonia - I agree 100%.

[Stillriledup]

Social Inclusion just picked up $165K in earnings and has earned $314K in 4 starts. He's also been reportedly drawing significant offers from other ownership.

Hard to be too critical of their management of the horse.


Ria Antonia - I agree 100%.

I agree with you. I think the critique of SI is not necessarily the management, just the "not selling" part. Not selling a horse for 8 million (or whatever they claim is a legit offer) when he's worth significantly less is the "bad management" that Edger might be talking about.

[Mineshaft]

Social Inclusion
Ria Atonia

Poor job by both outfits..





Social Inclusion is not a bad horse and i think hes been managed pretty good

Ria Antonia on the other hand they have fawked this horse all up

[JustRalph]

If they can get SI past his nerves, he might be a factor later in the year.

Remember, these guys are just babes. Lots of changes to come.....in all of them.

[OntheRail]

Social Inclusion just picked up $165K in earnings and has earned $314K in 4 starts. He's also been reportedly drawing significant offers from other ownership.

Hard to be too critical of their management of the horse.


Ria Antonia - I agree 100%.

Concur

[handyman1968]

SI got issues and might very well be the best of this year's crop. I doubt his stud value is high with only an allowance win to show for so it might be better to geld.

[classhandicapper]

Ria Antonia has been about as poorly managed as any top horse I've seen in a long time.

I would not have managed Social Inclusion the same way. I think they asked too much too soon, especially when he missed some work and a prep. But whether he's mismanaged or not will be clear going forward. There's no pressure to run in any big races now. They should freshen him up a little, get a prep into him, and then make another run at the big boys in the Haskell (not Travers).

[lamboguy]

i thought SOCIAL INCLUSION ran huge yesterday, i never expected him to do anything in this race.

maybe its just that we have a real good crop of 3 year old's this year. ultimately this is why the accomplishments from CALIFORNIA CHROME is nothing short of amazing to me so far.

its not only me that thinks this way either, the attendance at the triple crown races is up this year and i expect the Belmont Stakes to shatter all records.

[WJ47]

I would have sold Social Inclusion when the big offer came in, but otherwise, the horse seems to be doing well.

I hate to be critical, but the situation with Ria Antonia is just a joke. I get that the guy is proud of his filly, but he's making a complete fool of himself. I hope someone talks some sense into him and they enter the filly where she can actually win.

[PaceAdvantage]

At the very least, she'll put to test the time-worn and honored saying of how entering a horse way above its head will no doubt "ruin" them.

[NJ Stinks]

Ria Antonia has been about as poorly managed as any top horse I've seen in a long time.



One thing must be said in defense of the owner. I couldn't understand why this filly was entered in the BC Juvenile Fillies race and the owner won a million dollar race.

8 starts and $1.25M earned is not bad by any standard.

[tucker6]

At the very least, she'll put to test the time-worn and honored saying of how entering a horse way above its head will no doubt "ruin" them.
do you agree or disagree with that saying? I think it has a lot of merit myself.

[PaceAdvantage]

do you agree or disagree with that saying? I think it has a lot of merit myself.For the most part, I disagree completely that any one race (barring injury) can ruin a horse.

[classhandicapper]

At the very least, she'll put to test the time-worn and honored saying of how entering a horse way above its head will no doubt "ruin" them.

Some seem to come back fine from it and some do not.

I wouldn't consider the outcome of this individual horse to be indicative of a hard fast rule that applies to all horses. For all we know they are aiming for the Travers next. :bang:

[tucker6]

For the most part, I disagree completely that any one race (barring injury) can ruin a horse.
Well, I agree with you on that point. I was agreeing with the notion that repeatedly putting a horse against better competition like is happening with the filly is not good for the horse long term.

[onefast99]

First and foremost, I personally don't think there was ever an offer on SI. Why? I don't believe Rontos racing had anyone that wanted to take a large piece of him and let Rontos stay involved in the horse while keeping Manny Azpurua as their trainer. This horse wasn't properly trained coming into the Wood. He was given several 3f works and that just made this horse too wound up. His actions before the race in the Wood, sweating and nervous on a cool day were the telltale signs. The walkover at the Preakness was perfect, in the post parade he started to act up, four minutes prior to loading into the gate he became unruly once in the gate he became fractious. He is a big beautiful horse who does sweat quite a bit, I saw him at GP after a workout in April, he was covered in sweat and pretty lathered up. After yesterdays race he was very tired. I don't think we have seen the best of this one as of yet. Going to the Belmont isn't something I would do with him but I'm not an owner just a fan. Maybe someone will come along and buy him, his upside potential is enormous, if in the right hands!

[nijinski]

First and foremost, I personally don't think there was ever an offer on SI. Why? I don't believe Rontos racing had anyone that wanted to take a large piece of him and let Rontos stay involved in the horse while keeping Manny Azpurua as their trainer. This horse wasn't properly trained coming into the Wood. He was given several 3f works and that just made this horse too wound up. His actions before the race in the Wood, sweating and nervous on a cool day were the telltale signs. The walkover at the Preakness was perfect, in the post parade he started to act up, four minutes prior to loading into the gate he became unruly once in the gate he became fractious. He is a big beautiful horse who does sweat quite a bit, I saw him at GP after a workout in April, he was covered in sweat and pretty lathered up. After yesterdays race he was very tired. I don't think we have seen the best of this one as of yet. Going to the Belmont isn't something I would do with him but I'm not an owner just a fan. Maybe someone will come along and buy him, his upside potential is enormous, if in the right hands!

They may have looked at him and said two words Geld him !

[onefast99]

They may have looked at him and said two words Geld him !
Bingo!!!!

[Saratoga_Mike]

Bingo!!!!

Obviously not going to happen

[Robert Fischer]

There is nothing wrong with Social Inclusion, (http://www.equibase.com/profiles/Results.cfm?type=Horse&refno=9122080&registry=T) http://www.brisnet.com/pictures/socialinclusion3-12lesliemartin.jpg

simply turning out to be the next Itsmyluckyday (http://www.equibase.com/profiles/Results.cfm?type=Horse&refno=8865550&registry=T). http://www.brisnet.com/pictures/itsmyluckyday1-26.jpg


Could an elite trainer better prepare the horse for shots at the Travers and Breeders Cup Classic in hopes of securing more breeding value?

That's up to the current owners to decide.

There's nothing wrong with doing it their way with their trainer either.

[JustRalph]

Tom Amoss comes off looking like the court jester yesterday

[Mineshaft]

For the most part, I disagree completely that any one race (barring injury) can ruin a horse.




I disagree one race can ruin a horse for life ive seen it too many times.

[Thebigguy]

Social Inclusion just picked up $165K in earnings and has earned $314K in 4 starts. He's also been reportedly drawing significant offers from other ownership.

Hard to be too critical of their management of the horse.


Ria Antonia - I agree 100%.

Agree. I thought maybe it was a bit to much to soon for SI, but he ran well. I actually think he is very dangerous in the Belmont, from what I have read about whos pointing to the race it looks like SI will be totally loose on the front end.

[Thebigguy]

Social Inclusion is not a bad horse and i think hes been managed pretty good

Ria Antonia on the other hand they have fawked this horse all up


Im not sure they messed anything up. She stinks and has always been slow. I said on another board even the legendary Baffert would never get that horse to win again.

[Saratoga_Mike]

I disagree one race can ruin a horse for life ive seen it too many times.

I go back and forth on this one - interested in your list?

[Grits]

Tom Amoss comes off looking like the court jester yesterday

Hhhhmmm. Linda Rice with Kid Cruz might be better a better candidate.

[Mineshaft]

I go back and forth on this one - interested in your list?



No list Mike but ive seen it in claimers and Allowance horses mostly. Not so much the stakes horses but ive seen it happen. It might not ruin there career but for a 3-5 race stretch these horses are lost and not interested.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Hhhhmmm. Linda Rice with Kid Cruz might be better a better candidate.

He was on the improve (and a nice claim--great job on her part)...I don't mean to sound like DW Lukas, but why not?

[Saratoga_Mike]

No list Mike but ive seen it in claimers and Allowance horses mostly. Not so much the stakes horses but ive seen it happen. It might not ruin there career but for a 3-5 race stretch these horses are lost and not interested.

Totally disagree with claimers. It may ruin their form cycle, but nothing else.

[Grits]

He was on the improve (and a nice claim--great job on her part)...I don't mean to sound like DW Lukas, but why not?

Wasn't impressed. I'm sorry, I never was. Going in.

Each point of call:

9-10-10-10-9-8

"Failed to generate a significant response and could only get past tired rivals."

[Saratoga_Mike]

I've seen much worse placement, but it's subjective. In any case, what a great claim. I wouldn't have thought of claiming the horse in a million years.

[letswastemoney]

Social Inclusion does not belong in this discussion of mismanaged horses. He trounced Honor Code and finished second in two straight grade 1s.

I think people are letting his popularity get in the way of the fact Social is a very good, upper level colt.

[classhandicapper]

Social Inclusion does not belong in this discussion of mismanaged horses. He trounced Honor Code and finished second in two straight grade 1s.

I think people are letting his popularity get in the way of the fact Social is a very good, upper level colt.

Running him the Preakness in only his 4th start after missing a prep and 3 days of training was a black mark in my book even if he did get 3rd. I excused it because they know the horse better than I do. But if they wheel him back in the Belmont when every indication is that he's a middle distance horse at this stage of his career, I vote for mishandled. If they don't want to freshen him up for a strong summer campaign I can deal with that, but there are better options than the Belmont.

[exactatom]

Hhhhmmm. Linda Rice with Kid Cruz might be better a better candidate.

I do not see it that way. Kid Cruz is a closer to an expected hot pace, had won a stakes races (Tesio) on the track, and would have been a notable in the Wood Memorial if not injured. I think Linda Rice did a great job on the claim and took a shot in a place that made a lot of sense.

[Stillriledup]

Running him the Preakness in only his 4th start after missing a prep and 3 days of training was a black mark in my book even if he did get 3rd. I excused it because they know the horse better than I do. But if they wheel him back in the Belmont when every indication is that he's a middle distance horse at this stage of his career, I vote for mishandled. If they don't want to freshen him up for a strong summer campaign I can deal with that, but there are better options than the Belmont.

What do they know about the horse that you don't know that actually matters? When they enter the horse, you, as the handicapper can see when the horse is entered and you can make a judgment on whether the horse is coming back too soon, waiting too long, racing too far, racing over his head, racing on the wrong surface, ridden by the wrong jockey, etc. Handicappers make those decisions without having emotion involved, the trainer is very close to the situation, so he might overvalue his own horse's talent...while you are rating the horse having no emotional ties to the barn.

What they could know that you don't know is his current physical condition, etc. But if the horse shows up at the track, passes his vet inspections, comes out on the track and looks happy and healthy, the stuff that they knew (that you didnt) kinda doesn't matter at that point.

[overthehill]

i dont agree at all. SI had run a huge beyer before the wood . off that it was certainly one of the fastest horses in the race. Assuming it might improve second time out against stakes competition, it made sense to try the preakness. If CC doesnt fire, it figured to have a great chance to win a leg of the triple crown. what would be the alternative spot for the horse? the met mile against palace malice?

[letswastemoney]

Running him the Preakness in only his 4th start after missing a prep and 3 days of training was a black mark in my book even if he did get 3rd. I excused it because they know the horse better than I do. But if they wheel him back in the Belmont when every indication is that he's a middle distance horse at this stage of his career, I vote for mishandled. If they don't want to freshen him up for a strong summer campaign I can deal with that, but there are better options than the Belmont.
That's right, I meant to write third, not second. But, I thought Social Inclusion ran pretty well considering the wide trip and not his optimal running style. He may be the type of horse that runs well when there's a clear lead, such as Game On Dude.

[onefast99]

That's right, I meant to write third, not second. But, I thought Social Inclusion ran pretty well considering the wide trip and not his optimal running style. He may be the type of horse that runs well when there's a clear lead, such as Game On Dude.
Put him on the lead in the Belmont and he may never look back! 4 lifetime starts 2 of those in grade 1's with less than perfect trips. A perfect trip in the allowance race vs Honor Code showed he is very talented. Look at Ruler On Ice vs Shackelford, front end runners in the Belmont can win.

[classhandicapper]

He's a very talented horse. At this point he looks more like a miler than can stretch his speed a little further with the right trip. If he was mine, the Belmont would not even be up for consideration. I'd probably opt for the Woody Stephens or a short vacation and then start over.