Possible Misplacing of Horse at Bangor

[RaceTrackDaddy]

Fixed race at Bangor Hollywood Slots
Today in race 2 the Photo-finish booth and the judges booth did something that caused the wrong horses to be placed the winner. It is all on video.

If you asked how I came across this I just have to tell the truth that I still had some money in my betting account and the next track up was four minutes away for the first race at Bangor. Have not bet there in years so I downloaded the pp’s and started betting. Once the second race was posted official I was wishing I had captured the video to my hard drive as they fixed it so that the (# 6) was the winner when in reality it was the (# 1). I waited for the video to go online at my ADW archive so I viewed it and captured it.

I started at the lane finish of the race and let it roll so that you can see the two times they displayed the photo-finish print. The first time you see the nose of the (# 1) on the line and the (# 6) who is outside of him is just short of the white line. Then the camera goes to the winner’s circle picture with the posting of the (# 6) as the winner. Then you go back to see the photo-finish print again but there is text over the (# 1)’s head so as to not show you the horses nose on the line. Then you see the finish line turn YELLOW and the line moved back to touch the (# 6) nose. That is the official win photo only showing one horse on the line and the other one behind large text.

To see it for yourself, go to this link:
http://youtu.be/W0Q_E4lakb8

[lamboguy]

i can guarantee you 1 thing, i happened to have that winner $20 w+p, and i promise you i had nothing to do with the fix. after the takeout i had about 15% of the whole pool!

[Shemp Howard]

Hollywood Bangor is a Penn National Gaming operation.

Explains everything.

[RaceTrackDaddy]

i can guarantee you 1 thing, i happened to have that winner $20 w+p, and i promise you i had nothing to do with the fix. after the takeout i had about 15% of the whole pool!

Small pool tracks are the worst as they think no one is watching them. I probably would never had caught it except that I have friends that did that work in the photo finish room at the Meadows. I used to go up there and watch the two year old races that were run prior to the regular races with purses of about $300. So I know of what I speak when the operator moved that finish line back to the nose of the (# 6).

I can tell you that computer system is not a windows operated; but rather An Apple product. It was the only Apple system I have been exposed in my life having been with nothing other than Windows, starting back with Windows for Work Groups 3.x... I did have GEOS as an operating system but never an apple.

Glad someone won as I only bet $2 ex Key with the 1 on top and $1 reverse going three deep.

It is not about the money, it is all about cheating. I really can't see the operator doing it as the judges post the winning number and the operator of the computer system changed the line after the posting. The culprit is in the Judges booth and the photo-finish operator is the accomplice.

[titans1127]

While yes it may be fishy that the 2nd time they showed the photo they had the top 4 finishers covering up the :1: , to me it looks pretty clear that the :6: won the race, both in the slow-mo and the initial showing of the photo finish.

Had I been watching the race as it happened, I would have assumed the :6: would be placed first.

[RaceTrackDaddy]

While yes it may be fishy that the 2nd time they showed the photo they had the top 4 finishers covering up the :1: , to me it looks pretty clear that the :6: won the race, both in the slow-mo and the initial showing of the photo finish.

Had I been watching the race as it happened, I would have assumed the :6: would be placed first.

I paused the video on the photo finish prints at the new locations before the 6 was put up and after the judges put him up and the photofinish guy moved the line to the left (yellow finish line) and then I captured their finish product with the line being white.

I have friends that have been doing that job upstairs in the photofinish room and have been up there many times for the 2year baby races at the Meadows. I know that Apple computer system as when the operator moves the finish line (for place and show finishes) the line turns yellow then once you save it to file, the line is white.

Check out the page
http://puppypicksbyz.webatu.com/pictures/Bangor.htm

The (# 1) was the winner and the judges screwed somebody. I lost a 2 dollar ticket but got a 1 ticket so I probably got what I might have otherwise. But if a track can get away with cheating like this and be blatant about it letting the video catch every move, why even bet this sport. What do you say to someone who tells you that harness racing is fixed? I have to sadly say that you are right.

[RaceTrackDaddy]

Here are the closeups of both the (# 1) and (# 6) with respect to the finish line.
The first one is the (# 1) that is on the line. Get a ruler or a piece of paper and just cover up the line. It hits the horse's nose.

The second picture is of the (# 6) and you can see the shadow between the horse's nose and the finish line.

[titans1127]

To me, it doesn't look like either horse's nose is on the line in either picture. Hard to really say what went wrong here.

[EdZone]

To me, 6 is the winner. Look at both horse nose, not their mouth. The camera man also focus on the 6 horse after the finish the race. Your picture is capture from a none high quality video so is not clear after you resize it.
The shad0w don't means anything, it depends where is the sun.

[RaceTrackDaddy]

View the film again. The basic part of this is that the operator of the Tel-A-Timer is using a Apple computer product.

The first time in the video, the line is set on the winning horse, no matter if it is the (# 6) or if it is the (# 1). The judges have a monitor that is hooked up to the operator in the room above where the camera and computer is located.

Then the video goes to display the winner as (# 6). Then the video shows the print picture with the numbers covering the (# 1) horse. Check the color of the line, it is yellow as the cursor is on the line and the line moves from the preset position to the LEFT hitting the nose of the judges winner. The (# 1) is not even showing on the screen as it is covered up.

How many win, place, show or other photos has anyone seen with the supposed loser having his horse behind text so that you cannot see that horse on the line?

I personally have been inside one of these operation for the two year old baby races back in the day when the Meadows was just a track and before they tore it down.

One does not change the line of a photo finish picture after the judges post a winner that does not correspond with the equipment.

View the film again and tell me that line did not move to the left and then I would believe the (# 6) won the race. I cannot make any simpler for anyone to understand.

Ask yourself why after setting the line on the picture did the operator CHANGE IT?????

Fixed race and I blame the judges who posted it and the operator is complacent in that he covered it up by alternating the finish print after the judges decision on who won.

[PaceAdvantage]

Fixed race at Bangor Hollywood Slots
Today in race 2 the Photo-finish booth and the judges booth did something that caused the wrong horses to be placed the winner. It is all on video.

If you asked how I came across this I just have to tell the truth that I still had some money in my betting account and the next track up was four minutes away for the first race at Bangor. Have not bet there in years so I downloaded the pp’s and started betting. Once the second race was posted official I was wishing I had captured the video to my hard drive as they fixed it so that the (# 6) was the winner when in reality it was the (# 1). I waited for the video to go online at my ADW archive so I viewed it and captured it.

I started at the lane finish of the race and let it roll so that you can see the two times they displayed the photo-finish print. The first time you see the nose of the (# 1) on the line and the (# 6) who is outside of him is just short of the white line. Then the camera goes to the winner’s circle picture with the posting of the (# 6) as the winner. Then you go back to see the photo-finish print again but there is text over the (# 1)’s head so as to not show you the horses nose on the line. Then you see the finish line turn YELLOW and the line moved back to touch the (# 6) nose. That is the official win photo only showing one horse on the line and the other one behind large text.

To see it for yourself, go to this link:
http://youtu.be/W0Q_E4lakb8Are you daft? It's clear you are a touch clueless when it comes to how these photo finish setups operate, despite your claim that you have been in the same room as one. I for one can't tell who the hell won from that LOW RESOLUTION photo (and neither can you in reality). Looks like a dead-heat to me. From the live video, I can see where the outside horse might have won.

With that said, THE LINE MOVES and is supposed to move. The line is NOT the wire. The actual photo IS THE WIRE, so to speak. That captured photo that you see is the exact instant when the winner's nose crosses the plane of the photo finish camera. THEN they MOVE that computer generated line (yellow, white, whatever) around to see if they can separate the two horses. They move the line up to the noses and see whose is in front.

If you understood how the photo-finish mechanism works, you'd realize how whacked this whole thread reads....

I'm surprised it's taken this long for someone to call you out on this nonsense. This thread will be marked for deletion, although it is funny as hell.

[RaceTrackDaddy]

Are you daft? It's clear you are a touch clueless when it comes to how these photo finish setups operate, despite your claim that you have been in the same room as one. I for one can't tell who the hell won from that LOW RESOLUTION photo (and neither can you in reality). Looks like a dead-heat to me. From the live video, I can see where the outside horse might have won.

With that said, THE LINE MOVES and is supposed to move. The line is NOT the wire. The actual photo IS THE WIRE, so to speak. That captured photo that you see is the exact instant when the winner's nose crosses the plane of the photo finish camera. THEN they MOVE that computer generated line (yellow, white, whatever) around to see if they can separate the two horses. They move the line up to the noses and see whose is in front.

If you understood how the photo-finish mechanism works, you'd realize how whacked this whole thread reads....

I'm surprised it's taken this long for someone to call you out on this nonsense. This thread will be marked for deletion, although it is funny as hell.

You have the right to edit or censor but once a line is created and sent to the judges as first seen in the video, no one ever moves it after the judges decision has been made but it is clearly the case here. Can you personally tell me another photo finish print that you have seen between two horses that has one horse hidden behind text??

All I can say is I reported it to the federal authorities as there is money being wagered across state lines so it falls under their jurisdiction. Secondly, I sent a email to the executive director of the Maine Racing Commission requesting a hard copy of the photo finish print to Mr. Jackson at this email Henry.jackson@maine.gov

If anyone else is really interested in seeing the hard copy, email the Ex. Director at the addy above.

If you do delete this thread, so be it. Censorship knows all bounds but without free speech and social comment via the debate, we will never know what really happens.

Do as you please as you own the ball and bat of this game. Are you for free speech and social commentary or do you desire to read only things that you like.

bobby z

[JustRalph]

Well, he got his advertisement in several times :ThmbUp:

Bravo!

[wiffleball whizz]

6 never on the wire.....looks like a stink bomb to me

Also looks like camera is before the wire a little which would make the outside have to be in front a little more then usual to win....

[cmp92]

6 never on the wire.....looks like a stink bomb to me

Also looks like camera is before the wire a little which would make the outside have to be in front a little more then usual to win....
I agree. Watching the replay I thought the :1: held on before even seeing the picture. At worst for the :1: I see a dead heat, but not second.

EDIT: Not to mention that the quality of the photo is atrocious.

[RaceTrackDaddy]

I agree. Watching the replay I thought the :1: held on before even seeing the picture. At worst for the :1: I see a dead heat, but not second.

EDIT: Not to mention that the quality of the photo is atrocious.
After communicating with the Presiding Judge, they are going to send me the print of the race. Judge Bacon I hear is straight forward guy who used to be the track announcer at Pocono Downs and is now back at his home state.

The photo finish operator as told by the judge is new at his job and that they are really sorry and that I was correct in complaining that both horses were not on the final print, etc.. But he assured me that the (# 6) was the winner.

So I was told the print should be in the mail this Saturday and I should receive it sometime next week. I will be offering a sincere apology if the print proves me wrong.

Right now we are in the holding stages.

[RaceTrackDaddy]

Hollywood Bangor is a Penn National Gaming operation.

Explains everything.
Did you guys read that post about Penn National closing the oldest track in Ohio? Last day for Beulah Park was May 3rd. I can see them not competing with Mountaineer's Scioto Downs but I really think if they would have given the slots a chance there, they could have given Scioto a run for their money, especially in the winter months when Scd is closed and will not open until this time of the year, like tomorrow.

Here is the link to the Paulick report


http://www.paulickreport.com/news/the-biz/death-in-the-afternoon-beulah-park-1923-2014/?

[LottaKash]

After communicating with the Presiding Judge, they are going to send me the print of the race. Judge Bacon I hear is straight forward guy who used to be the track announcer at Pocono Downs and is now back at his home state.

The photo finish operator as told by the judge is new at his job and that they are really sorry and that I was correct in complaining that both horses were not on the final print, etc.. But he assured me that the (# 6) was the winner.

So I was told the print should be in the mail this Saturday and I should receive it sometime next week. I will be offering a sincere apology if the print proves me wrong.

Right now we are in the holding stages.

RTD, way to go....I am interested in the photo....Perhaps you can post it...I will be happy to see it....:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

If nothing is amiss, then so be it, but still, it is good for some of us to send a clear message that people are watching, and for our money we demand everything to be on the up and up, as it is sometimes hard to win as it is...

[RaceTrackDaddy]

RTD, way to go....I am interested in the photo....Perhaps you can post it...I will be happy to see it....:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

If nothing is amiss, then so be it, but still, it is good for some of us to send a clear message that people are watching, and for our money we demand everything to be on the up and up, as it is sometimes hard to win as it is...

I certainly will and in a strange kind of way I hope I have to make a formal apology. I know in my heart I am right but in a photo this close, a shadow on the nose can elongate the nostril to be the winner. The (# 6) looks to have that shadow right next to the line which can easily be mistaken for the nose of the horse.

Only having that camera angle and the auxiliary camera that is located just below the main one will have a definitive two angle shot. The cameras are about foot and half apart top to down. I requested the Aux camera print as well but have no confirmation from the judge about that but let us hope he does.

Thanks Kash, whether I am right or not, I had to make a statement. I wish everyone who is into anything be involved. If it is something that you love dearly, fight for it. Do not settle for less.

If one's favorite love is the care of the animals, do so and fight for the animal rights everyday of your life.

Some people join Green Peace and put their lives in danger on the high seas going in between the whalers and the whales.

Just wish everyone to find something in their lives that really drives them to get out and do something every day to better the world. If we all did that in our favorite pastimes this world has to be a better place.

Thanks again Kash.

[PaceAdvantage]

Maybe I overreacted. I don't think so, but anything is possible.

Since you don't seem adverse to writing, can you spell out, simply, exactly what the big broohaha is here? What exactly is the big travesty of justice that happened?

I see a photo...a typical crappy resolution racetrack photo of a finish...I see the line that they use on the monitor to see who is in front...I know the photo I am looking at is the exact moment the noses hit the finish line...I know there is no LINE on the photo...the LINE is a computer generated line that they are able to move around and position right on the nose of one horse, then see where the other nose is in relation.

All that appeared to be happening normally in the video you produced for us here.

So, give me a short, concise explanation why you chose to go with the headline "FIXED RACE AT BANGOR HOLLYWOOD SLOTS," when for the life of me, I don't see anything of the sort that would justify that kind of headline.

You do realize you are making a serious allegation that could potentially send people to jail, without any substantial evidence to back it up...that's why the thread should be deleted...

[Stillriledup]

Wow, that was unbelievable.

Looked like the 1 hung on live, the 6 was never past him when they went past that "white thing" in the infield, low rung tracks favor the inside (visually) so you had to think you hung on live.

Than, they show the photo and the 6 is NOT even on the line. Than, they actually show some cursor moving the line right on the video replay to touch the nose of the 6 horse but when they show the "winning photo" its the original 'white line" photo with the top horse blocked out by graphics.

That stinks to high heaven, i mean, if the 6 won the race clean, why not just show it without blocking the other horse with graphics? That's the part to me that makes me think they have something to hide.

[Stillriledup]

Maybe I overreacted. I don't think so, but anything is possible.

Since you don't seem adverse to writing, can you spell out, simply, exactly what the big broohaha is here? What exactly is the big travesty of justice that happened?

I see a photo...a typical crappy resolution racetrack photo of a finish...I see the line that they use on the monitor to see who is in front...I know the photo I am looking at is the exact moment the noses hit the finish line...I know there is no LINE on the photo...the LINE is a computer generated line that they are able to move around and position right on the nose of one horse, then see where the other nose is in relation.

All that appeared to be happening normally in the video you produced for us here.

So, give me a short, concise explanation why you chose to go with the headline "FIXED RACE AT BANGOR HOLLYWOOD SLOTS," when for the life of me, I don't see anything of the sort that would justify that kind of headline.

You do realize you are making a serious allegation that could potentially send people to jail, without any substantial evidence to back it up...that's why the thread should be deleted...

If the headline said "honest race at Bangor" do you think there would be as many hits and views and replies? I'm thinking not.

As far as "substantial evidence" the first photo they showed the 6 was not on the line, Stevie Wonder could see that.

Than, they "blocked out" the inside horse with some graphics so you couldnt see it and STILL showed the original photo with the white line where the 6 was NOT on the wire.

Why would they block out the inside horse with graphics if they weren't hiding something? I've seen tens of thousands of harness races, T bred races, Dog races and Ant races and i've NEVER seen something like that. I've never seen a photo shown where the "winner" was not on the line and the other horse was blocked by graphics. If there's a logical explanation, i'm sure we would all love to hear it, but geez, that's a pretty shaky situation if you ask me.

[PaceAdvantage]

Really...I'm starting to think some people here are either borderline mental patients or just love pushing buttons.

I just watched the video again:

a) Based on the crappy video, it's very clear to me the outside horse COULD HAVE won the race

b) The only suspect thing I see in the video presented here as evidence for a FIXED RACE contains nothing more than bad video producing/directing...absolutely no evidence of any race fixing.

And there are many seconds of that photo presented in the video with neither horse obscured by any results graphic...

What is presented in this thread borders on the delusional. And I say this with peace and love.... :lol:

[dannyhill]

Really...I'm starting to think some people here are either borderline mental patients or just love pushing buttons.:lol:
You're only now reaching that conclusion.

[wiffleball whizz]

Maybe I overreacted. I don't think so, but anything is possible.

Since you don't seem adverse to writing, can you spell out, simply, exactly what the big broohaha is here? What exactly is the big travesty of justice that happened?

I see a photo...a typical crappy resolution racetrack photo of a finish...I see the line that they use on the monitor to see who is in front...I know the photo I am looking at is the exact moment the noses hit the finish line...I know there is no LINE on the photo...the LINE is a computer generated line that they are able to move around and position right on the nose of one horse, then see where the other nose is in relation.

All that appeared to be happening normally in the video you produced for us here.

So, give me a short, concise explanation why you chose to go with the headline "FIXED RACE AT BANGOR HOLLYWOOD SLOTS," when for the life of me, I don't see anything of the sort that would justify that kind of headline.

You do realize you are making a serious allegation that could potentially send people to jail, without any substantial evidence to back it up...that's why the thread should be deleted...


Camera 10 feet at least before wire and outside horse don't go by....

Watch a race from thistledown and if they hit the wire together on the camera that means the indies wins by a little less then a neck....

This is a bad situation

And whatever that cursor moving was all about totally makes this situation at best questionable

[LottaKash]

Really...I'm starting to think some people here are either borderline mental patients or just love pushing buttons.



PA, it's the "BUTTONS", this whole place is about the "buttons" ! ....:jump: :jump: :jump:

And, I am glad of it...:)

[RaceTrackDaddy]

Maybe I overreacted. I don't think so, but anything is possible.

Since you don't seem adverse to writing, can you spell out, simply, exactly what the big broohaha is here? What exactly is the big travesty of justice that happened?

I see a photo...a typical crappy resolution racetrack photo of a finish...I see the line that they use on the monitor to see who is in front...I know the photo I am looking at is the exact moment the noses hit the finish line...I know there is no LINE on the photo...the LINE is a computer generated line that they are able to move around and position right on the nose of one horse, then see where the other nose is in relation.

All that appeared to be happening normally in the video you produced for us here.

So, give me a short, concise explanation why you chose to go with the headline "FIXED RACE AT BANGOR HOLLYWOOD SLOTS," when for the life of me, I don't see anything of the sort that would justify that kind of headline.

You do realize you are making a serious allegation that could potentially send people to jail, without any substantial evidence to back it up...that's why the thread should be deleted...

I must admit that I did too over react with the thread headline. But the most telling fix so to speak was in the video. We all saw in the video the first photo finish print. Then after the judges posted the numbers on the tote board, we saw that photo finish person click on the line, thus turning it yellow and moved it to the left closer to the nose of the horse. In all my years in watching all breeds of racing, never have I seen a photo adjusted after a judges placing.

Maybe others have not the experience or were even on that video seeing how ADW's have multiple video feeds. It just struck a nerve in me. Top it off, the final print presented to the public had the (# 1) horse's head and upper body hidden behind the official order of finish.

To me it appeared as a cover-up with the photo finish person changing the line to match the judges decision.

At all tracks that I have friends working in those booths tell me that the judge can tell the operator to move the line one way or another BUT that is done before the final placings.

If you think what transpired is normal day to day operation, well I guess then you would not see the hubbub.

The still pictures are only generated by capturing it from a video and the clarity and precision is not the best one would like to have.

The presiding judge, Mr. Shane Cabot is going to send me a finish print and he assures me that the six won. He also told me he and the judges made their final decision from the final print (which does not correspond to the timeline of the video). He was the track announcer at Pocono prior to his going home to Maine and being a judge.

Some of those friends that are in the business think the shadow on the left side of the (# 6) nose is what the judges thought was the nose but not the photo finish guy as he moved it to the left after seeing the print. The time line on the print will be in 1/100 of a second. With a T-square one should have no problem proving the winner. If they just eye balled on their monitor in the judges booth, then the judges made a critical error of not ordering the print.

If there is a way to change the thread of this please let's do it. Change it to Possible Misplacing of Horse at Bangor.

If anything this close should have been called a dead heat and most certainly they should never have shown only one horse in the finish print and leaving the other behind the colored text.

Thank you for your kind reply and let us find the truth.

[RaceTrackDaddy]

I should clarify the meaning of "Print" as it is no longer developing film but rather click on the print tab on the computer program and then the printer will generate the picture.

[PaceAdvantage]

I must admit that I did too over react with the thread headline. But the most telling fix so to speak was in the video. We all saw in the video the first photo finish print. Then after the judges posted the numbers on the tote board, we saw that photo finish person click on the line, thus turning it yellow and moved it to the left closer to the nose of the horse. In all my years in watching all breeds of racing, never have I seen a photo adjusted after a judges placing.Don't you see, they aren't adjusting the photo!! The photo is the same. Nothing has changed. The photo IS the photo, for lack of a better way of putting it. That picture you see is of the exact moment the winner's nose hit the "finish line."

That line you see turning yellow or white, or moving all over the place. That's by design. It's just a tool the judges use to determine who won a tight finish. They move that sucker around to one of the noses of one of the horses and see where the other's nose is in relation. That's all. The line is SUPPOSED TO MOVE so that they can place it where they want in order to determine who is in front in a close finish.

Moving the line doesn't change the picture. The picture is the picture. Whoever is in front is in front. That doesn't change with the line.

And besides, who in their right mind would try and fix a race like this IF IT'S ALL BEING TRANSMITTED TO THE PUBLIC AT THE TIME!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

At all tracks that I have friends working in those booths tell me that the judge can tell the operator to move the line one way or another BUT that is done before the final placings.The only thing that happened here, compared to other tracks, is that instead of taking a STILL SHOT of the photo finish (with the computer-generated line) and showing that on their TV feed, they instead continued to use a LIVE shot and the photo-finish guy was moving the mouse or whatever, and the line moved...big deal...means nothing...

The photo is the photo...you can't change that unless you try and photoshop an entirely different result, and that would take way more time then they had...

If you think what transpired is normal day to day operation, well I guess then you would not see the hubbub.It is normal, except you usually don't get to see it. It was also amateur on their part...which leads to confusing the general public, who doesn't know how these things operate, and thus thinks something funny is going on. I tend to give people who post on this board more credit than the general public. So I don't expect to see people claiming a race was fixed based on a video which clearly does not show this as happening.

The presiding judge, Mr. Shane Cabot is going to send me a finish print and he assures me that the six won. He also told me he and the judges made their final decision from the final print (which does not correspond to the timeline of the video). He was the track announcer at Pocono prior to his going home to Maine and being a judge.

Some of those friends that are in the business think the shadow on the left side of the (# 6) nose is what the judges thought was the nose but not the photo finish guy as he moved it to the left after seeing the print. The time line on the print will be in 1/100 of a second. With a T-square one should have no problem proving the winner. If they just eye balled on their monitor in the judges booth, then the judges made a critical error of not ordering the print.I don't understand what a print is in this case or why it would be better than a high resolution computer monitor with a high resolution, perfectly straight line that they can use to determine who is in front. Maybe someone can fill me in on this print business. I thought the whole point of these systems was to eliminate the "print."

[Saratoga_Mike]

Did you guys read that post about Penn National closing the oldest track in Ohio? Last day for Beulah Park was May 3rd. I can see them not competing with Mountaineer's Scioto Downs but I really think if they would have given the slots a chance there, they could have given Scioto a run for their money, especially in the winter months when Scd is closed and will not open until this time of the year, like tomorrow.

Here is the link to the Paulick report


http://www.paulickreport.com/news/the-biz/death-in-the-afternoon-beulah-park-1923-2014/?

First, I thought the photo looked like a dead heat. Moreover, I agree with Pace's comments: the resolution isn't good enough to make a definitive call and certainly not good enough to call it a fixed race.

Second, Penn is taking the BEU license and moving the track to a less competitive mkt (from a slots standpt) - exactly what they should do.

[RaceTrackDaddy]

Don't you see, they aren't adjusting the photo!! The photo is the same. Nothing has changed. The photo IS the photo, for lack of a better way of putting it. That picture you see is of the exact moment the winner's nose hit the "finish line."

That line you see turning yellow or white, or moving all over the place. That's by design. It's just a tool the judges use to determine who won a tight finish. They move that sucker around to one of the noses of one of the horses and see where the other's nose is in relation. That's all. The line is SUPPOSED TO MOVE so that they can place it where they want in order to determine who is in front in a close finish.

Moving the line doesn't change the picture. The picture is the picture. Whoever is in front is in front. That doesn't change with the line.

And besides, who in their right mind would try and fix a race like this IF IT'S ALL BEING TRANSMITTED TO THE PUBLIC AT THE TIME!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

The only thing that happened here, compared to other tracks, is that instead of taking a STILL SHOT of the photo finish (with the computer-generated line) and showing that on their TV feed, they instead continued to use a LIVE shot and the photo-finish guy was moving the mouse or whatever, and the line moved...big deal...means nothing...

The photo is the photo...you can't change that unless you try and photoshop an entirely different result, and that would take way more time then they had...

It is normal, except you usually don't get to see it. It was also amateur on their part...which leads to confusing the general public, who doesn't know how these things operate, and thus thinks something funny is going on. I tend to give people who post on this board more credit than the general public. So I don't expect to see people claiming a race was fixed based on a video which clearly does not show this as happening.

I don't understand what a print is in this case or why it would be better than a high resolution computer monitor with a high resolution, perfectly straight line that they can use to determine who is in front. Maybe someone can fill me in on this print business. I thought the whole point of these systems was to eliminate the "print."

Believe as you do, NO TRACK would ever adjust the line AFTER THE JUDGES POSTED THE ORDER OF FINISH. That is the main consideration. It appears that the operator slide the line originally to the nose of the one horse. When the judges posted the six horse as the winner, he goes back and moves it to the left touching the six horse's nose.

You can interpret that anyway you want, but to the general public moving the line AND covering up the (# 1) horse's nose is not the way to do business as if anything it appears as a fix or cover up.

I cannot make it any simpler. I tried to find a tab to change the thread to, "Possible wrong placement of winner at Bangor" but you have no such tab as Chicago Barn To Wire. Its your site and I assume you have control over everything, I would ask you to change the thread title.

As for the final print, it is the one with the Text over the (# 1) horse after they moved the line to the left. I requested it without the text so as to make sure who won the race. Would you accept all photo finish pictures to show only one horse on the line and the other covered up with text??

You might, I certainly would not.

[PaceAdvantage]

Believe as you do, NO TRACK would ever adjust the line AFTER THE JUDGES POSTED THE ORDER OF FINISH. That is the main consideration. It appears that the operator slide the line originally to the nose of the one horse. When the judges posted the six horse as the winner, he goes back and moves it to the left touching the six horse's nose.

You can interpret that anyway you want, but to the general public moving the line AND covering up the (# 1) horse's nose is not the way to do business as if anything it appears as a fix or cover up.

I cannot make it any simpler. I tried to find a tab to change the thread to, "Possible wrong placement of winner at Bangor" but you have no such tab as Chicago Barn To Wire. Its your site and I assume you have control over everything, I would ask you to change the thread title.

As for the final print, it is the one with the Text over the (# 1) horse after they moved the line to the left. I requested it without the text so as to make sure who won the race. Would you accept all photo finish pictures to show only one horse on the line and the other covered up with text??

You might, I certainly would not.I thought I might have been too harsh on you when I started in this thread, but now I know I was not. You really do seem naive about things...

First off, I changed the title of the thread before you posted this most recent reply.

Second, we both agree that the way they went about presenting this particular photo was ill-advised...I said it was amateur in my last post and agreed that the general public would think it suspicious...I thought better of you than that because you have been here for seven years.

As for the final print, it is the one with the Text over the (# 1) horse after they moved the line to the left. I requested it without the text so as to make sure who won the race. Would you accept all photo finish pictures to show only one horse on the line and the other covered up with text??

You might, I certainly would not.That wasn't the "final print." That was a live feed of the photo with the results superimposed. There is no "with text" and "without text" version... :lol:

Doesn't everyone get that they were sending out a live feed from the photo-finish room when they should have been using a captured still shot? That's where most of the problem lies in all of this...

[mrroyboy]

That is all well and good but Tray is entitled to his opinion.

[PaceAdvantage]

That is all well and good but Tray is entitled to his opinion.As am I.

Then again, I'm not sure how much opinion there is to be had here. Looks like nothing but fact from this perspective.

[Stillriledup]

If you're going to change the headline of this thread, why not change it to "misplacing of horse at bangor"?

Why put "possible"? The photo showed the 6 was not even on the wire and the other photo had the inside horse blocked by some graphics.

Do you think the 6 was on the wire in the photo they showed, the photo with the white line?

[Ray2000]

I haven't commented up until now, but here's how a photo finish camera works.

There is no computer generated line. (Would have been impossible before computers were in use) There is a slit aperture in the camera. When installed, the slit image is aligned with the finish wire which is directly in line with the trip beam. The film strip negative is pulled across the slit as the same speed as the horses. It used to be one long cellulose strip capturing the noses of the winner(s) and all other finishers as they hit the line. Nowadays it is a digital image sequence, at least at the tracks who can afford the update.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photo_finish#Method_of_capture

[PaceAdvantage]

I haven't commented up until now, but here's how a photo finish camera works.

There is no computer generated line. (Would have been impossible before computers were in use) There is a slit aperture in the camera. When installed, the slit image is aligned with the finish wire which is directly in line with the trip beam. The film strip negative is pulled across the slit as the same speed as the horses. It used to be one long cellulose strip capturing the noses of the winner(s) and all other finishers as they hit the line. Nowadays it is a digital image sequence, at least at the tracks who can afford the update.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photo_finish#Method_of_captureThe computer generated line I am talking about is on the screen...used to examine the digital image of the finish and to help separate the noses of horses...

[Saratoga_Mike]

If you're going to change the headline of this thread, why not change it to "misplacing of horse at bangor"?

Why put "possible"? The photo showed the 6 was not even on the wire and the other photo had the inside horse blocked by some graphics.

Do you think the 6 was on the wire in the photo they showed, the photo with the white line?

Possible is perfect.

Yes.

[PaceAdvantage]

If you're going to change the headline of this thread, why not change it to "misplacing of horse at bangor"?

Why put "possible"? The photo showed the 6 was not even on the wire and the other photo had the inside horse blocked by some graphics.

Do you think the 6 was on the wire in the photo they showed, the photo with the white line?You honestly think they messed up the finish of that race, either by accident or on purpose, don't you?

The simplest thing in the world is to declare either a lone winner or a dead heat.

That leaves "on purpose." Which would be insanely ridiculous.

Where does the photo show the 6 not being on the wire, exactly? The photo is the photo. It shows exactly where the two horses were in relation to each other when the winner crossed the beam.

The judges examine that photo if it is close to see exactly which horse's nose is in front. If they can't tell, they call it a dead heat.

So, where does the photo show the 6 not being on the wire? And how can you tell anything from the low-rez video that was posted?

[Stillriledup]

You honestly think they messed up the finish of that race, either by accident or on purpose, don't you?

The simplest thing in the world is to declare either a lone winner or a dead heat.

That leaves "on purpose." Which would be insanely ridiculous.

Where does the photo show the 6 not being on the wire, exactly? The photo is the photo. It shows exactly where the two horses were in relation to each other when the winner crossed the beam.

The judges examine that photo if it is close to see exactly which horse's nose is in front. If they can't tell, they call it a dead heat.

So, where does the photo show the 6 not being on the wire? And how can you tell anything from the low-rez video that was posted?

The 6 was not on the wire in the photo that was showed online, why are you debating that he was?

Also, how come they blocked the inside horse with graphics? Why block the horse, don't the bettors deserve to see the "graphic free" photo?

[Saratoga_Mike]

Yes he was - you're being ridiculous

[Stillriledup]

Yes he was - you're being ridiculous

Maybe i saw a different photo. The one i saw the horse was not on the line.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Maybe i saw a different photo. The one i saw the horse was not on the line.

You are looking at the photo, correct? The angle in the live video is horrible.

[wiffleball whizz]

You are looking at the photo, correct? The angle in the live video is horrible.

Not really that bad..... Better then Yonkers and northfield....northfield may have the worst angle in racing and nobody talks about it

[Stillriledup]

You are looking at the photo, correct? The angle in the live video is horrible.

i saw the photo on the replay feed. There seemed to be two photos, one was with a white line and to my eye, the 6 was not on the wire. The other photo was one with a yellow line that was moved, for all to see, during the video feed so that it would touch the nose of the 6.

BUT, when they showed the "official" winning photo, they went back to the white lined photo that showed the 6 not touching the white as well as blocking the inside horse with graphics.

I'm also questioning the reasoning behind blocking the inside horse on the last photo they showed with graphics, but so far, i havent found the response i'm looking for.

[Saratoga_Mike]

On the hidden photo - maybe the saying "never attribute malice to that which may be explained by incompetence" applies?

[Stillriledup]

On the hidden photo - maybe the saying "never attribute malice to that which may be explained by incompetence" applies?

This is the 64 dollar question. Many criminals explain away behavior by saying "honest mistake" but lets face it, not every "honest mistake" is "honest".

I would agree that most of these honest mistakes are just that, honest mistakes....but, where do we draw the line? Do we just permit people who made these mistakes to just say "oops" and we forgive and forget?

As far as the photo goes, i'll add one thing, the white-linephoto is the one they showed as the last photo, it was the photo that they came up with after all the horses were posted and the prices were paid. Now, when they originally posted the white-line photo, the horse was NOT on the line and i know this because later in the video feed, someone with a cursor "dragged" the white line, which was now a yellow line, to right on the nose of the 6 horse.

If the 6 was on the line in the photo i'm talking about, with the white line, they wouldn't have had to move any "finish wire" to touch the nose of the outside horse nor would they have blocked the inside horse with graphics.

Now, i don't know if they eventually showed the photo sans the graphics in house after the fact, but just right after the race, they showed a photo that had one horse blocked.

If its an "honest mistake" on the photo, why block half the photo, this is the part that makes me wonder what the heck really was going on there.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Doesn't seem like they're trying to hide anything, given the judge offered to send the photo to another poster. But who knows - I just don't believe in some grand conspiracy at a track that handles maybe $3k/race (?).

[Stillriledup]

Doesn't seem like they're trying to hide anything, given the judge offered to send the photo to another poster. But who knows - I just don't believe in some grand conspiracy at a track that handles maybe $3k/race (?).

I agree, its not a grand conspiracy, there's not enough money involved for people to be risking their jobs and reputations.

You say it doesnt seem like they're trying to hide anything, but they hid half the photo, the one they showed to the public!

[Saratoga_Mike]

I agree, its not a grand conspiracy, there's not enough money involved for people to be risking their jobs and reputations.

You say it doesnt seem like they're trying to hide anything, but they hid half the photo, the one they showed to the public!

If they were really trying to hide the photo, it never would have been posted it all. In any case, you can obviously believe as you like. Good luck with your future Bangor and Scarborough Downs betting.

[Stillriledup]

If they were really trying to hide the photo, it never would have been posted it all. In any case, you can obviously believe as you like. Good luck with your future Bangor and Scarborough Downs betting.

lol i don't bet these places, probably never bet them in my life and don't plan on betting them in the future.

You still havent answered why they would show the photo and purposely block the inside horse.

I'm not dealing in hypotheticals, i'm dealing in facts. The fact was they posted the photo and blocked the inside horse and nobody seems to have any idea why.

[gregrph]

I watched the video a half dozen times and lloked at the posted pictures. I think I understand what is going on. The camera snaps the photo the instant a horse hits the finish line. The photo is computer generated and software is used to determine the winner, i.e. by the operator moving a computer generated line left and right to try and see which horses nose hits first. The line would be an overlay on the screen. Then the photo with the line was broadcast with another overlay of the order of finish in the top right corner, covering up the view of the inside horse.

MY question is this: Why in this day in age are we seeing 480p resolution? That the highest resolution on the youtube quality settings of this video. I couldn't see the finish weel enough to tell anything so I expanded the video and watched again and that was worse! Even the posted pictures are terrible. Don't the tracks have capabilities to offer higher quality/resolution photos? How about basic image editing to sharply narrow the contrast in this case?If this is what the judges have to work with, no wonder there may be a mistake!

[PaceAdvantage]

This could be the most ridiculous thread on the racing side of this website...and that's saying a lot considering what has transpired the last week or so...

I've been hoping someone with a little more street cred in the harness world would chime in by now and right this ship...someone like pandy maybe...

[LottaKash]

This could be the most ridiculous thread on the racing side of this website...and that's saying a lot considering what has transpired the last week or so...

I've been hoping someone with a little more street cred in the harness world would chime in by now and right this ship...someone like pandy maybe...

And, what would or could Pandy say that could make this right ?..

All I take from this is: A fan, a player, and a lifetime devoted friend of racing, perhaps, "perceived" that something could possibly be amiss in the placings of a particular race, whether true or not....Sure he was a bit more passionate than may be, but still, I didn't take it anymore than a man trying to make a possible wrong being brought to light....If nothing was amiss, then so what ?

So PA, other than a liability thing, I am not sure why you are so irked by all of this....I mean, this is a topic that is/was germane to racing, and, as this is a racing website, and, on so many other occasions on the T-bred side of things, we have heard so many similar things discussed as well..

Heck, I have seen people here at PA, getting so antsy & ranty with the placings and reversals of orders of finish by the placing judges at so many other venues, so I see this as no difference in this case, as in all the others.... The guy (RTD) even went to lengths to personnally confront the track in question about his perhaps perceived misgiving in this instance...Race Track Daddy, imo, is an upstanding guy, and I am quite certain that if he is proved wrong, that he will man-up and issue an apology if necessary....

Hey, on the harness side, there are guys (drivers and trainers) that are banned at some venues, and yet other tracks still allow these crooks to continue on with their dastardly deeds....LIke Lou Pena for instance, or Simon Allard who has an 80% win rate on claimed horses at some Penna tracks...And we have complained about their "perceived" inproprieties in the past, so how is this any different, imo?

If we have no voice here at PA in matters such as this one, then where, I ask ?

[mrroyboy]

Very well said John.

[Saratoga_Mike]

This could be the most ridiculous thread on the racing side of this website...and that's saying a lot considering what has transpired the last week or so...

I've been hoping someone with a little more street cred in the harness world would chime in by now and right this ship...someone like pandy maybe...

From 14 to 21, I watched thousands of harness races. So I feel qualified to comment on it, but couldn't someone who has never seen a race just as easily comment on a photo? To me, it's much ado about nothing, which I believe is your point....so we agree.

[PaceAdvantage]

And, what would or could Pandy say that could make this right ?..

All I take from this is: A fan, a player, and a lifetime devoted friend of racing, perhaps, "perceived" that something could possibly be amiss in the placings of a particular race, whether true or not....Sure he was a bit more passionate than may be, but still, I didn't take it anymore than a man trying to make a possible wrong being brought to light....If nothing was amiss, then so what ?

So PA, other than a liability thing, I am not sure why you are so irked by all of this....I mean, this is a topic that is/was germane to racing, and, as this is a racing website, and, on so many other occasions on the T-bred side of things, we have heard so many similar things discussed as well..

Heck, I have seen people here at PA, getting so antsy & ranty with the placings and reversals of orders of finish by the placing judges at so many other venues, so I see this as no difference in this case, as in all the others.... The guy (RTD) even went to lengths to personnally confront the track in question about his perhaps perceived misgiving in this instance...Race Track Daddy, imo, is an upstanding guy, and I am quite certain that if he is proved wrong, that he will man-up and issue an apology if necessary....

Hey, on the harness side, there are guys (drivers and trainers) that are banned at some venues, and yet other tracks still allow these crooks to continue on with their dastardly deeds....LIke Lou Pena for instance, or Simon Allard who has an 80% win rate on claimed horses at some Penna tracks...And we have complained about their "perceived" inproprieties in the past, so how is this any different, imo?

If we have no voice here at PA in matters such as this one, then where, I ask ?The liability thing IS a big factor to me. You are talking about people's lives here. There are actual people operating that photo finish system. There are actual judges...people this man ORIGINALLY LABELED AS RACE FIXERS (until I changed the thread title). The first line of his first post reads "Fixed race at Bangor Hollywood Slots."

The evidence he presents here does not merit that kind of accusation by any stretch of the imagination. So yeah, I'm going to get animated in my replies, because I think what he did here was the height of irresponsibility and ignorance.

If I'm wrong, I want someone like Pandy to tell me I'm wrong. I don't think that's going to happen.

[lamboguy]

the total win pool has about $600 in it, and the purse is less than $3000. no one in their right mind would alter a photo for that kind of money.

i don't blame anyone for changing the name of the thread. if it was me, i would have taken the thread down altogether

[LottaKash]

the total win pool has about $600 in it, and the purse is less than $3000. no one in their right mind would alter a photo for that kind of money.

i don't blame anyone for changing the name of the thread. if it was me, i would have taken the thread down altogether

I agree about changing the thread title, for reasons stated....

But on the other, not so much....Sure enough, given the numbers here, there wasn't much reason for larceny in this situation :D , but still, there is an issue of incompetency or maybe ineptness that is still at large, imo....Meaning, if I were a bettor at that venue, and they called the finish wrong, and it was proved to be untrue, well, that would irk me some too...

The tracks have a responsibility to the bettors, and that is, that they must be trusted, as in "always"...

RTD is not wrong here...or a bad call on placings, is only relevant and worth discussing at the "bigs" ???

[lamboguy]

the people that run Bangor Raceway should be arrested for impersonating a race track operator.

[RaceTrackDaddy]

First off let me thank you for changing the title of thread as at the time of the writing my post, it was still displaying the original and asked for you to do it for me as I could not find a tab to do it as I did it at the tread at Chicago Barn To Wire.

I also stated previously that I over reacted with the title and my accusations given with the only video.

That being said, I really can't see your lack of the grasp of the change of the line to the left after that guy set it previously on what appears to some the (# 1) horse.

If not for the hidden final print with the results but the (# 1) horse hidden what would one expect? If exactly the same thing happened with the photo in the 1978 Belmont between Alyadar and Affirmed, would you still feel the same way, not seeing Alydar on the photo?

[PaceAdvantage]

Just because they mistakenly showed a live feed of the photo-finish computer monitor instead of the usual captured freeze-frame, and you see the guy move the mouse and thus the "line" moves, doesn't mean the race is being set up for a fix.

That's the bottom line.

Do they usually show this kind of thing at Bangor? My guess is no.

I can see where the general public ie. someone who doesn't know better, might be suspicious, but I give people who have been here for years more credit than that.

I had no problem with a thread being created over this. What I had a problem with was the automatic assumption that the race was being fixed. The original thread title, and the original post here leaves little doubt as to your mindset in that regard.

There was overreaction on both of our parts. I apologize that my choice of words towards you was sometimes heated in this exchange.

[Sea Biscuit]

After communicating with the Presiding Judge, they are going to send me the print of the race. Judge Bacon I hear is straight forward guy who used to be the track announcer at Pocono Downs and is now back at his home state.

The photo finish operator as told by the judge is new at his job and that they are really sorry and that I was correct in complaining that both horses were not on the final print, etc.. But he assured me that the (# 6) was the winner.

So I was told the print should be in the mail this Saturday and I should receive it sometime next week. I will be offering a sincere apology if the print proves me wrong.

Right now we are in the holding stages.

RTD We are all waiting to see the original print which the track officials have promised to send you.

Hope you get it soon.

[RaceTrackDaddy]

To Pace Advantage
You stated looking for “street cred” from the harness community to chime in on this thread.

May I just give you a little background on me. I worked at the Meadows from 1971 to late year 1994. Over that I time I saw many things on both sides of the track. From a $50 teller who would write down you wagers and pay you if you win out of his pocket. He worked there from opening day till they caught him in the last years of my employment.

I also saw a groom from one of the three stables that shipped to the Meadows when Foxboro closed down for good. He brought in a brief case with tubes of all kinds of drugs that they used on their horse up in Mass.

I have seen a horse scratched out of a race and put back in as they started the starting gate but my wager was refused on Call-a-bet.

I kept my mouth shut over these and numerous other things.

I called out Trackmaster who printed the wrong name of the (# 4) horse in a race at Pocono in the $200k Stake Final.


But on occasion I took on the ADW’s and their withholding of the retention rate. Luckily for me the Thoroughbred Times interviewed me.

Sometimes I added things like the above to my editorial page of my site. I captured a few pictures that display what I am saying. I am not actively posting to my site until the opening of Ocean Downs where my site has been posting our selections on their video feed since 2006. If someone wants to see my rants and raves over time, most but not all have made it to the editorial page. http://puppypicksbyz.webatu.com/editorial.htm

I attached captured pictures of the Trackmaster and the ADW incidents mentioned above.

Many things I have seen I have kept my mouth shut. Things change with me once I was diagnosed with CML (Leukemia) back in January 2002. Being in the 27% survival rate of those in the blast (terminal) stage kind of is a wake up call. After my transplant and arriving home from the hospital for the last in late November, I was a changed person. I call out what I see as injustice or criminal or just lunacy.

Now you know a little bit more about me and why I do the things I do.




I

[PaceAdvantage]

Well then, I would have expected better from you then.

I don't see any evidence to support your first post in this thread.

If I'm wrong, I welcome others to school me. Pandy being one of them.

Was Bangor sloppy in their post-race presentation? No doubt. But that's as far as it goes based on what you've given us.

[RaceTrackDaddy]

Well then, I would have expected better from you then.

I don't see any evidence to support your first post in this thread.

If I'm wrong, I welcome others to school me. Pandy being one of them.

Was Bangor sloppy in their post-race presentation? No doubt. But that's as far as it goes based on what you've given us.

For better or not, the main fact is that the line first appeared without the text and only after the 6 being placed over the 1 on the tote board did the operator move the line to the left and we never saw the line on the nose of the 1 after the line was moved. In all cases where I have come across a problem, it is always stated as a mistake. Where people wager their hard earn money, the management of the host track should train their people better.

Was it on purpose to gain money from an off shore wager? I don't know but after seeing fake money coming in at tracks like the Meadows, Wheeling Downs, Pompano Park where bets were placed on horses that should have been long shots provided huge prices in excess of $50 on entrants that at most paid $6.

When I see things that on the face being fishy, illegal or whatever, with my past experiences seeing a lot more than I stated previously that some of them have to be on purpose as I will not accept the industry being so poorly run that mistakes have been common place.

You disagree, that is fine. What is important is to bring to light these anomalies. Some people see things that others do not. Case in point the ADW's and their overcharging the retention rates. How many listers are here and many are interested in the rate of retention.? How many of them caught that? Some see it and some don't. Some people see it but do not confront and will just avoid betting at that track or service. I since 2002 have taken a pro active role in confronting what I perceive to be an injustice (for whatever causation, it needs to be brought to light.

[RaceTrackDaddy]

RTD We are all waiting to see the original print which the track officials have promised to send you.

Hope you get it soon.

Sea Biscuit:
IN addition to the final print of the race I also requested the Auxiliary camera shot and to make sure both have the time line that is calibrated in 1/100th of a second on the American Teletimer equipment.

An operator of another track informed me that in his professional opinion that the six horse has a shadow on the left side of the nose that can be confusing to people not used to seeing it. The Aux camera sits directly below the main camera and will produce the same picture but the timeline will probably be a little off due to the fact that both cameras do not start at the same time as the back up camera begins after the main camera starts when the electric eye broken.

I will send along these once I get them. Like I said earlier, I was told to expect them by the middle of next week as they are supposed to go out on Saturday.

rtd

[LottaKash]

[/b]
Was Bangor sloppy in their post-race presentation? No doubt. But that's as far as it goes based on what you've given us.

Well then, all is fine ....:jump:

Still, I will add this...The tracks need to stay on their toes as far as I am concerned....

We pay "the rake" in exchange for as quality a product as can be, but more importantly, for that, we should receive the best placings due to truth, honesty from any given race, and with it the due diligence to those premises first and foremost...

In the Bangor case, perhaps one of several things may have taken place, an old salty, due to complacency, messed up the photo thing, and try to make it right somehow, or a rookie in need of further training may have been left to his own devices and just screwed up.....Or maybe a drunk or a drug addict had his day in the course of things as it is with the ilk of that sort of person...


If everything was on the up and square, then so be it...No harm done, as I see it...If there was a problem then perhaps a thread of this sort is just what was needed to remedy the problem, and the tracks should be glad of it..

And, if they truly did mess up, bettors aside, what of the "real winner" of a paltry $3k race, as maybe they were counting on the $1,500 winners share to pay for the oats and the vets....


In my liftetime, I have held positions that bore a great deal of responsibility with it, such as life and death and disaster if I messed up, so I learned to double check everything that I did...Consequently, I deem this thread as a good "double check", is all....:cool:

[mrroyboy]

John were you a college professor or something? You sure sound like it.

[LottaKash]

John were you a college professor or something? You sure sound like it.

Roy, surely you jest....A college prof, haha,,you should hear what my wife calls me...:D

[RaceTrackDaddy]

The print was not in the mail today. I will check tomorrow and report back here.

[Sea Biscuit]

The print was not in the mail today. I will check tomorrow and report back here.

Thanks RTD:ThmbUp:

[PaceAdvantage]

Who cares about a "print?" Someone here will simply argue they had all this time to doctor up whatever they want to give you... :rolleyes:

[RaceTrackDaddy]

Who cares about a "print?" Someone here will simply argue they had all this time to doctor up whatever they want to give you... :rolleyes:

Pace
I really care not about other's opinion; but I do care about people who I have come to know to be above board. If they think it is doctored, I would have to take another if I thought not. But in the end, it will be my decision on whether to apologize or not for bringing this to light.

While we are at it, you never responded to my question earlier on if this same thing happened in the Belmont Stakes in 1978 between Alydar and Affirmed and you could only see Affirmed in the picture, what would you think?

rtd

[PaceAdvantage]

While we are at it, you never responded to my question earlier on if this same thing happened in the Belmont Stakes in 1978 between Alydar and Affirmed and you could only see Affirmed in the picture, what would you think?

rtdStarting at the 34 second mark of your own video, they show the photo WITH BOTH HORSE's noses clearly showing...nothing blocking the inside horse, for a good 10 seconds...that's why I didn't respond.

[RaceTrackDaddy]

Starting at the 34 second mark of your own video, they show the photo WITH BOTH HORSE's noses clearly showing...nothing blocking the inside horse, for a good 10 seconds...that's why I didn't respond.

Ok, but you assume everyone at the track saw it live. My question was predicated that everything happened the same way back in 1978 as it did this day in Maine. Now let's put you in the position of being outside at Belmont near the rail and by the time you got inside to see that photo on the in house feed and you only saw the last picture with it hidden. Would you think differently?

[PaceAdvantage]

Well, I think I've already responded in this thread that to the person with no knowledge of how it all works, it would look suspicious.

And obviously, whoever was running the show that night at Bangor was a tad on the incompetent side, as even in that 10 second shot I mentioned tonight, they still had the outline of the result box showing, the same box that would be filed in a bit later with the result info, blocking the inside horse from view.

It's the same incompetence that continued to show the live feed of the photo finish computer screen while the operator was moving the mouse and thus the yellow/white line...

The whole thing smacked of "training night at Bangor."

But it doesn't mean the race was fixed.

[RaceTrackDaddy]

Well, I think I've already responded in this thread that to the person with no knowledge of how it all works, it would look suspicious.

And obviously, whoever was running the show that night at Bangor was a tad on the incompetent side, as even in that 10 second shot I mentioned tonight, they still had the outline of the result box showing, the same box that would be filed in a bit later with the result info, blocking the inside horse from view.

It's the same incompetence that continued to show the live feed of the photo finish computer screen while the operator was moving the mouse and thus the yellow/white line...

The whole thing smacked of "training night at Bangor."

But it doesn't mean the race was fixed.

We changed the title of thread and I already admitted I over reacted but we have been through that.

Have a good evening and a great tomorrow..
rtd

[RaceTrackDaddy]

Mailman came and left, nothing for me from Maine. Maybe tomorrow.

[RaceTrackDaddy]

Found out that mail from Maine to PA takes anywhere from 2 to 7 business days. Instead of keep posting here, I will post when it arrives with a scanned jpg. I should expect it no later than Tuesday of next week, assuming it was mailed last Saturday. If you don't hear from me, I still have not received it.

[thespaah]

Fixed race at Bangor Hollywood Slots
Today in race 2 the Photo-finish booth and the judges booth did something that caused the wrong horses to be placed the winner. It is all on video.

If you asked how I came across this I just have to tell the truth that I still had some money in my betting account and the next track up was four minutes away for the first race at Bangor. Have not bet there in years so I downloaded the pp’s and started betting. Once the second race was posted official I was wishing I had captured the video to my hard drive as they fixed it so that the (# 6) was the winner when in reality it was the (# 1). I waited for the video to go online at my ADW archive so I viewed it and captured it.

I started at the lane finish of the race and let it roll so that you can see the two times they displayed the photo-finish print. The first time you see the nose of the (# 1) on the line and the (# 6) who is outside of him is just short of the white line. Then the camera goes to the winner’s circle picture with the posting of the (# 6) as the winner. Then you go back to see the photo-finish print again but there is text over the (# 1)’s head so as to not show you the horses nose on the line. Then you see the finish line turn YELLOW and the line moved back to touch the (# 6) nose. That is the official win photo only showing one horse on the line and the other one behind large text.

To see it for yourself, go to this link:
http://youtu.be/W0Q_E4lakb8
Anybody remember this caper?
http://www.bloodhorse.com/pdf/RingersRascals_Ch8.pdf.
I remember when the scam was exposed. I think it was the NY Daily News back page sports headline that screamed "IS THIS HORSE THAT HORSE".
It had pics of Lebon and Cinzano side by side.

[thespaah]

Small pool tracks are the worst as they think no one is watching them. I probably would never had caught it except that I have friends that did that work in the photo finish room at the Meadows. I used to go up there and watch the two year old races that were run prior to the regular races with purses of about $300. So I know of what I speak when the operator moved that finish line back to the nose of the (# 6).

I can tell you that computer system is not a windows operated; but rather An Apple product. It was the only Apple system I have been exposed in my life having been with nothing other than Windows, starting back with Windows for Work Groups 3.x... I did have GEOS as an operating system but never an apple.

Glad someone won as I only bet $2 ex Key with the 1 on top and $1 reverse going three deep.

It is not about the money, it is all about cheating. I really can't see the operator doing it as the judges post the winning number and the operator of the computer system changed the line after the posting. The culprit is in the Judges booth and the photo-finish operator is the accomplice.
Gotta be honest ...I'm not seeing a problem here.
The 6 was the legitimate winner.

[Sea Biscuit]

Thats what a photo finish picture should look like (taken from WEG's website)

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g387/secretariat3/woodbinephotofinish_zpse999d872.png (http://s1099.photobucket.com/user/secretariat3/media/woodbinephotofinish_zpse999d872.png.html)

[PaceAdvantage]

Thats what a photo finish picture should look like (taken from WEG's website)

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g387/secretariat3/woodbinephotofinish_zpse999d872.png (http://s1099.photobucket.com/user/secretariat3/media/woodbinephotofinish_zpse999d872.png.html)How'd they get the yellow line on there? :lol:

[dannyhill]

How'd they get the yellow line on there? :lol:
Erasable ink

[PaceAdvantage]

Follow up to "how'd they get the yellow line on there:"

How do we know the yellow line is placed directly on the finish line? :eek: :eek: :eek: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Lions and tigers and bears!

[Stillriledup]

Follow up to "how'd they get the yellow line on there:"

How do we know the yellow line is placed directly on the finish line? :eek: :eek: :eek: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Lions and tigers and bears!

Oh MY! :eek:

[RaceTrackDaddy]

I really thought that print would have been in the mail box today; but alas still no mail from Maine. The postal service has stated that it takes 2 to 7 business days for first class mail to go from Maine to Pennsylvania.

I was told that on Saturday, May 10th the print would go out in the mail. Tomorrow will be the 7th day.

Just wanted to let everyone know it still has yet to arrive.
rtd

[Sea Biscuit]

I really thought that print would have been in the mail box today; but alas still no mail from Maine. The postal service has stated that it takes 2 to 7 business days for first class mail to go from Maine to Pennsylvania.

I was told that on Saturday, May 10th the print would go out in the mail. Tomorrow will be the 7th day.

Just wanted to let everyone know it still has yet to arrive.
rtd

What I don't understand is that in this day of computer age, why do we have to even depend on the US mail to deliver a picture.

They could, if they really wanted to, put up the picture on their website for all to see. Not much in the way of racing info on their website either which speaks volumes on how much emphasis they put on the harness racing business.:bang:

http://www.hollywoodcasinobangor.com/Racing

[RaceTrackDaddy]

What I don't understand is that in this day of computer age, why do we have to even depend on the US mail to deliver a picture.

They could, if they really wanted to, put up the picture on their website for all to see. Not much in the way of racing info on their website either which speaks volumes on how much emphasis they put on the harness racing business.:bang:

http://www.hollywoodcasinobangor.com/Racing
That is so true. They are just like all the other Racinos in that the horse racing side gets no attention.

Just noticed today on Facebook, the MSOA (Meadows Standardbred Owners Association) is going to be running ads for the racing at the Meadows during the local news on television stations. The Meadows Casino rolled out a multi-million dollar ad campaign last month but none of the commercials were about the track; rather all about slots and table-games. Shame the horse owners have to spend money promotion the Meadows when the owners of the Meadows have not spent a dime yet in promotion.

[RaceTrackDaddy]

After seven business days after the supposed mailing of the print, it never arrived. I guess they care not to give me what they promised. It is a shame as I really wanted to bring this to its final conclusion.

Any ideas as to why they never send it as promised?

[PaceAdvantage]

Not on the top of their to-do list?

Maybe they forgot?

Maybe you should follow-up...or request it via email.

[Stillriledup]

Not on the top of their to-do list?

Maybe they forgot?

Maybe you should follow-up...or request it via email.

Yes, showing the photo without graphics blocking the winni..er, inside horse was not at the top of their to do list either.

[PaceAdvantage]

Yes, showing the photo without graphics blocking the winni..er, inside horse was not at the top of their to do list either.Yeah, that's what I meant...way to go...let's rehash this whole thing yet again...

Actually, what I meant was, they aren't in the habit of mailing out photos, so perhaps, just perhaps, the OP needs to give them a gentle reminder...that's all.

[lamboguy]

in the first race today, the 2 horse has over $1000 to win on him. that's more than they will have all afternoon in the win pool!

[RaceTrackDaddy]

Not on the top of their to-do list?

Maybe they forgot?

Maybe you should follow-up...or request it via email.

The original emails went out on a Tuesday, the day after the incident. I received replies from both the racing commissioner and the judge, in fact, about four emails.

Before I posted up here, I sent an email to the commission and the judge as well as their "person of interest" who has been carbon copied mails of all correspondence. I never heard a word from that person.

The time sent today was about a half earlier than the original time. I have yet to get a response from any of the three officials up in Maine.

If anyone else would like to send an email to them, here are their addresses:
Shane Bacon (President Judge) bacons@hermon.net
Henry Jackson (Maine Race Commissioner) Henry.Jackson@maine.gov
Ralph Canney (person of interest) ralph.canney@yahoo.com

The person of interest just might be the photo finish guy but not sure.

I really think they will not get back to me and are hoping that this will just die.

[RaceTrackDaddy]

in the first race today, the 2 horse has over $1000 to win on him. that's more than they will have all afternoon in the win pool!
That is that syndicate that hits small pool tracks and bets the rest of the field at an off shore wagering site.. they hit Sanford Orlando earlier this week, maybe yesterday, I did not get a captured picture of it but copied and pasted it in my mail so I captured a pic of that. Things can go wrong at small pool tracks that benefit some that bet offshore.

I first noticed it at Wheeling Downs on Presidents Day two years ago. Someone sent in three $2,000 wagers. My dog went in the box at 8/5 and came out at 24/1. The money usually comes in late but at times it does arrive a couple minutes to post. They hit the Meadows, Pompano Park and Palm Beach in addition to Sanford Orlando the last few years. They make two or three wagers in one week at various tracks and boom, they're gone. I expect them to hit one more track this week and no hear from them until mid summer when they come out and play again.

[Stillriledup]

That is that syndicate that hits small pool tracks and bets the rest of the field at an off shore wagering site.. they hit Sanford Orlando earlier this week, maybe yesterday, I did not get a captured picture of it but copied and pasted it in my mail so I captured a pic of that. Things can go wrong at small pool tracks that benefit some that bet offshore.

I first noticed it at Wheeling Downs on Presidents Day two years ago. Someone sent in three $2,000 wagers. My dog went in the box at 8/5 and came out at 24/1. The money usually comes in late but at times it does arrive a couple minutes to post. They hit the Meadows, Pompano Park and Palm Beach in addition to Sanford Orlando the last few years. They make two or three wagers in one week at various tracks and boom, they're gone. I expect them to hit one more track this week and no hear from them until mid summer when they come out and play again.

Don't offshore places refuse to pay if there are any "shenanigans"?

[RaceTrackDaddy]

Don't offshore places refuse to pay if there are any "shenanigans"?

One would think so but they hit it and quit it...then a few months later, they come out of the woodwork (probably with a new service) and strike again.

I am guessing that they would pay at first and I have to believe like the one time at Wheeling, one of those $2k wagers actually won so the offshore money was all losing money. That just might keep the service off their backs till they crack enough and then go back into the woodwork.

The most noticeable harness race was last year. At the Meadows, the top three favorites finished in the top three places. The ex paid like $15 and the Tri $60 but once the money came in, those three horses were at odds of 16/1 9/1 and 38/1. Those five longshots that took the money were no longer the longshots. I might have posted something about it here last year but don't recall.

[traynor]

That is that syndicate that hits small pool tracks and bets the rest of the field at an off shore wagering site.. they hit Sanford Orlando earlier this week, maybe yesterday, I did not get a captured picture of it but copied and pasted it in my mail so I captured a pic of that. Things can go wrong at small pool tracks that benefit some that bet offshore.

I first noticed it at Wheeling Downs on Presidents Day two years ago. Someone sent in three $2,000 wagers. My dog went in the box at 8/5 and came out at 24/1. The money usually comes in late but at times it does arrive a couple minutes to post. They hit the Meadows, Pompano Park and Palm Beach in addition to Sanford Orlando the last few years. They make two or three wagers in one week at various tracks and boom, they're gone. I expect them to hit one more track this week and no hear from them until mid summer when they come out and play again.

Probably much to the surprise of horse bettors, there are a number of people who do quite well wagering on greyhound races. That wagering has become increasingly difficult, with the diminishing size of mutuel pools. One of the most noticeable changes directly related to that size change is the tendency away from win and win-place wagering. In most cases it is self-destructive--wagers of any appreciable size tend to reduce the payout to non-profitable returns. Picking the winners in greyhound races is easy. Making money on it is a bit more difficult.

The professional bettors in greyhound races rarely even consider win bets, or betting large amounts on single or multiple (individual) entries. What you may be seeing is a strategy made popular back in the old Rockingham Park days by Vinnie Teresa and crew. Someone convinces a greedy wannabe that "the fix is in--get down heavy on the 5." The greedy one dumps money into the pool, tweaking it away from the real selection. The obvious value is that there in no recourse for the greedy one. He or she cannot run to management demanding a refund because the "fixed race" didn't play out as he/she had been told it would.

What you describe looks much more like an engineered false favorite than a strategy to exploit offshore betting sites.

[RaceTrackDaddy]

Probably much to the surprise of horse bettors, there are a number of people who do quite well wagering on greyhound races. That wagering has become increasingly difficult, with the diminishing size of mutuel pools. One of the most noticeable changes directly related to that size change is the tendency away from win and win-place wagering. In most cases it is self-destructive--wagers of any appreciable size tend to reduce the payout to non-profitable returns. Picking the winners in greyhound races is easy. Making money on it is a bit more difficult.

The professional bettors in greyhound races rarely even consider win bets, or betting large amounts on single or multiple (individual) entries. What you may be seeing is a strategy made popular back in the old Rockingham Park days by Vinnie Teresa and crew. Someone convinces a greedy wannabe that "the fix is in--get down heavy on the 5." The greedy one dumps money into the pool, tweaking it away from the real selection. The obvious value is that there in no recourse for the greedy one. He or she cannot run to management demanding a refund because the "fixed race" didn't play out as he/she had been told it would.

What you describe looks much more like an engineered false favorite than a strategy to exploit offshore betting sites.
I think all harness handicappers should also get into thoroughbreds and greyhounds as the lessons learned are transferable over to the harness.

Some might not realize but greyhounds cannot be taught to race inside, outside or mid track. It is something that comes naturally. You have to put in time to know the dog that is racing. Once you are at it for a while, you can see where a potential collisions can occur at the first turn. Not the fastest dog wins the race but the one with the best trip usually does, hence trip handicapping is what is improved.

Problem with that is the horses are told how to run and a closer at times will become a front runner, case in point at the Meadows yesterday with Major Athens who first start of the year closed furiously last week to almost beat the Trotter of the year in 2013 at the Meadows. He drops in class and tries to wire them thus backing up to be third at 3/5. Even though you handicapped it right, they are in the hands of humans who at times tend to make mistakes.

Flat racing has some many variables, weight, surfaces, distances, etc. It really makes one person think. Speed and endurance are the essentials to handicapping in all breeds but trip at times can trump them all.

These guys in the syndicate hit only those small pools where their costs are minimal to create false favorites. They're only a finite number of off shore books and eventually they will run out.

For the hell of it, I tried to open up a Ladbrokes account overseas and was refused as UK has an agreement with the US not to accept us as customers. That really riled me up.

[RaceTrackDaddy]

Forgot to mention the most important aspect of handicapping today that was not available during the time I started this hobby. That is the video archives. Today we can see all the races that were run prior to today's big race.

For instance, one would love to bet the Kentucky Derby each year. If you did not see all the Derby Prep races where points were awarded in order to be entered in the Derby one would miss out on some very important races. Going into the prep races my favorite was Candy Boy. He beat Chitu and I later cashed on that one when he won his prep race. But the day Candy met Chrome, I had a new hero. I released to my twitter followers right after they ran the Santa Anita Derby that if you just watched this race, you have seen the winner of this year's Kentucky Derby.

Without the video archive or simulcasting, we had to depend upon sports writers for information. It is a great time to be a race enthusiast.

[lamboguy]

just yesterday i bet on a race at Bangor and thought my horse got second easily and when they posted the results he was 3rd. there could be a tough camera angle in that place.

[RaceTrackDaddy]

just yesterday i bet on a race at Bangor and thought my horse got second easily and when they posted the results he was 3rd. there could be a tough camera angle in that place.
Many small tracks have that problem... made me long for the best camera angle in the sport just a few years ago. They don't race harness there any more but I loved Hawthorne Raceway in Illinois. They had their slo-mo camera set right above the electric eye and unless it was a dead heat, you knew which horse hit the line first.

There live camera feed was also on the line from above the grandstand. Think in building all new Racino's they should be ordered to put the live camera feed on top of the photo finish room so that we get a clear picture of the race winners.

Like all racincos, they care not for the racing product but only their slots and table games. Why make things nice for the bettors?

[RaceTrackDaddy]

Still not a peep out of the race commissioner, presiding judge and the cc: person of interest.

Still no picture that leaves me to believe that they were in error placing the wrong horse as the winner.

If they did things correctly I would have received the photo finish print last week.

Any ideas on how to proceed to gain that photo and the back up camera print? I am out of ideas.

[PaceAdvantage]

Still not a peep out of the race commissioner, presiding judge and the cc: person of interest.

Still no picture that leaves me to believe that they were in error placing the wrong horse as the winner.

If they did things correctly I would have received the photo finish print last week.

Any ideas on how to proceed to gain that photo and the back up camera print? I am out of ideas.Ask again.

I'm not sure what you're expecting once the picture arrives. You're going to get a picture that looks exactly like the one in your video. It might even have a line superimposed on it to help you identify which nose is actually in front.

Then you'll see the result was posted correctly. Look at that. I just saved you some time and energy.

Thank me very much.

[PaceAdvantage]

The replay is available on line:

http://replays.robertsstream.com/racereplays/playf_llnw.php?customer=Bangor&t=1400918248&h=90bf613d2b657d0624f8843cefda7f72&url=201405061715BGN2

Looking at the video and pausing on the unobstructed view of the photo, it looks like a possible dead-heat with where they placed the line...if you look at the very top of the entire length of the head/nose of the outside horse, you'll see that dark portion extend all the way to the line and touch the line...but...the inside horse also looks like it is touching the line.

Now, the video is VERY LOW RESOLUTION, so it's impossible to give an accurate call based on that alone...PLUS...whomever is operating the photo finish computer obviously can't be relied upon that they placed the line at the very tip of the outside horse's nose in that shot. It could very well be that the line is slightly too far to the left and a sliver of the outside horse's nose is covered up by the line, which would account for the outside horse winning.

Always remember this about the line...it is NOT the finish line...it is an AID to confirm whose nose is in front...because the actual PHOTO IS THE FINISH LINE...not the fake computer generated line itself...think of the line as simply a RULER to help see whose nose is in front.

With all this said, I feel compelled to offer you an apology for the most part, and retract some of what I've written to you in this thread. Your request for confirmation is a valid one. But your initial approach was still flawed in my opinion.

Why don't you contact Penn National Gaming...they own Bangor, do they not? They are a publicly traded company...

[Ray2000]

I'll bet my bottom dollar you guys are talking about 2 different cameras, the robertstream video and the official photo finish camera.

Bob
Is the print you are expecting from the official slit camera?

[PaceAdvantage]

I'll bet my bottom dollar you guys are talking about 2 different cameras, the robertstream video and the official photo finish camera.

Bob
Is the print you are expecting from the official slit camera?Actually, we're talking about the official photo finish shown at about the 3:45 mark of the video I linked to in my last reply.

[RaceTrackDaddy]

The replay is available on line:

http://replays.robertsstream.com/racereplays/playf_llnw.php?customer=Bangor&t=1400918248&h=90bf613d2b657d0624f8843cefda7f72&url=201405061715BGN2

Looking at the video and pausing on the unobstructed view of the photo, it looks like a possible dead-heat with where they placed the line...if you look at the very top of the entire length of the head/nose of the outside horse, you'll see that dark portion extend all the way to the line and touch the line...but...the inside horse also looks like it is touching the line.

Now, the video is VERY LOW RESOLUTION, so it's impossible to give an accurate call based on that alone...PLUS...whomever is operating the photo finish computer obviously can't be relied upon that they placed the line at the very tip of the outside horse's nose in that shot. It could very well be that the line is slightly too far to the left and a sliver of the outside horse's nose is covered up by the line, which would account for the outside horse winning.

Always remember this about the line...it is NOT the finish line...it is an AID to confirm whose nose is in front...because the actual PHOTO IS THE FINISH LINE...not the fake computer generated line itself...think of the line as simply a RULER to help see whose nose is in front.

With all this said, I feel compelled to offer you an apology for the most part, and retract some of what I've written to you in this thread. Your request for confirmation is a valid one. But your initial approach was still flawed in my opinion.

Why don't you contact Penn National Gaming...they own Bangor, do they not? They are a publicly traded company...
Pace:
I did contact Penn Gaming Corporate and am waiting for a reply from them. That was only two days ago, I hope they get to back to me by mid next week.

[RaceTrackDaddy]

I'll bet my bottom dollar you guys are talking about 2 different cameras, the robertstream video and the official photo finish camera.

Bob
Is the print you are expecting from the official slit camera?
I was to receive the main photo finish camera print and camera 2 (back up camera) that is located directly below the main camera. In cases of shadows on the print, one would get a different perspective and the shadow would be either elongated or shortened depending on the elevation difference between the two cameras.

I suspect that a shadow was used in determining the winner of that race and not until they inspected both prints before mailing did they see a mistake had taken place.

To duck for cover and not reply to any correspondence since to let me hang out to wither on a the vine is not acceptable.

I just want what was promised to me so that I could put this puppy to bed.

When the racing commissioner and president judge both keep quiet about this, what else are they hiding? They should man up and do the right thing.

If it was a mistake, fine, but admit it.

What is a person to think when you are promised something and go back on your promise when you see the finish prints?

I really think both sides of the issue should be alarmed at the lack of transparency in providing the finished prints. That might be a bigger story than that of a mistake in placing of a winner in a race.

rtd

[RaceTrackDaddy]

The replay is available on line:

http://replays.robertsstream.com/racereplays/playf_llnw.php?customer=Bangor&t=1400918248&h=90bf613d2b657d0624f8843cefda7f72&url=201405061715BGN2

Looking at the video and pausing on the unobstructed view of the photo, it looks like a possible dead-heat with where they placed the line...if you look at the very top of the entire length of the head/nose of the outside horse, you'll see that dark portion extend all the way to the line and touch the line...but...the inside horse also looks like it is touching the line.

Now, the video is VERY LOW RESOLUTION, so it's impossible to give an accurate call based on that alone...PLUS...whomever is operating the photo finish computer obviously can't be relied upon that they placed the line at the very tip of the outside horse's nose in that shot. It could very well be that the line is slightly too far to the left and a sliver of the outside horse's nose is covered up by the line, which would account for the outside horse winning.

Always remember this about the line...it is NOT the finish line...it is an AID to confirm whose nose is in front...because the actual PHOTO IS THE FINISH LINE...not the fake computer generated line itself...think of the line as simply a RULER to help see whose nose is in front.

With all this said, I feel compelled to offer you an apology for the most part, and retract some of what I've written to you in this thread. Your request for confirmation is a valid one. But your initial approach was still flawed in my opinion.

Why don't you contact Penn National Gaming...they own Bangor, do they not? They are a publicly traded company...
Pace:
Thank you but no apologies are needed. I did over react at first and have since tried to restrain myself. It is just that with their refusal to even acknowledge my existence currently is taking all of my restraint. I really hope ends soon as the longer it takes, the more damage it does to the sport of racing.

rtd

[LottaKash]

I really think both sides of the issue should be alarmed at the lack of transparency in providing the finished prints. That might be a bigger story than that of a mistake in placing of a winner in a race.

rtd

Daddy, it may well be.....And you just may have opened a can of worms here....Time will tell, I suppose...(or not)

Perhaps you are right, and they are just going to wait you out, until you lose interest, and just go away...

But be advised tho, "whistleblowers" and "do-gooders" usually end up in Russia or China...:D

[RaceTrackDaddy]

Daddy, it may well be.....And you just may have opened a can of worms here....Time will tell, I suppose...(or not)

Perhaps you are right, and they are just going to wait you out, until you lose interest, and just go away...

But be advised tho, "whistleblowers" and "do-gooders" usually end up in Russia or China...:D
Oh No,,, I don't have my shots!.....

[LottaKash]

Oh No,,, I don't have my shots!.....

Well budd,y you better get up to date then...:cool:

Where is Pandy when you need him ?....:D

[RaceTrackDaddy]

After several attempts to obtain the prints I contacted the Maine Attorney General's office. Mr Guay (Asst. Atty General) contacted them and today I received the following:
1. The whole race print
2. The Main Camera
3. The Backup Camera.

I attached them to this post.

For those that believe as I, we were mistaken.
Let me put this issue to rest.
rtd
bobby z

[RaceTrackDaddy]

After several attempts to obtain the prints I contacted the Maine Attorney General's office. Mr Guay (Asst. Atty General) contacted them and today I received the following:
1. The whole race print
2. The Main Camera
3. The Backup Camera.

I attached them to this post.

For those that believe as I, we were mistaken.
Let me put this issue to rest.
rtd
bobby z
Forgot to mention that I offered my apologies to Mr Bacon (Pres Judge) and Mr Jackson (race commission).

I also would offer my apologies to this group and those that were offended by my actions.

[LottaKash]

Forgot to mention that I offered my apologies to Mr Bacon (Pres Judge) and Mr Jackson (race commission).

I also would offer my apologies to this group and those that were offended by my actions.

I didn't believe either way Daddy, but, when someone with the love and background in this sport that you have, and takes exception to a placing, well I stood up and at least took notice of that, just because of who you are...

It is good that you apologized, and that is all that is necessary, imo...:ThmbUp:

It is good to let the tracks know that we are watching, at all times.... I believe that it is healthy to shake up the balls, as they say at bingo", once in a while...:jump:

A good and sincere, "double-check" RTD... is all I see...

[Ray2000]

notice the track surface and the spokes of the wheels

this is what you get with an OFFICIAL photo finish slit camera.

http://inrng.com/2012/04/photo-finish-camera/



thanks for the follow up RTD

[Stillriledup]

I didn't believe either way Daddy, but, when someone with the love and background in this sport that you have, and takes exception to a placing, well I stood up and at least took notice of that, just because of who you are...

It is good that you apologized, and that is all that is necessary, imo...:ThmbUp:

It is good to let the tracks know that we are watching, at all times.... I believe that it is healthy to shake up the balls, as they say at bingo", once in a while...:jump:

A good and sincere, "double-check" RTD... is all I see...

No apology needed. They should have shown THESE photos and not blocked the photo with some graphics. He was just questioning their mistake, why should he be the one apologizing?

[LottaKash]

No apology needed. They should have shown THESE photos and not blocked the photo with some graphics. He was just questioning their mistake, why should he be the one apologizing?

I think in some cases that it is just a "gentlemanly" thing to do (the apology protocol)....It keeps up with the respect and sincerity part of the puzzle, I believe... Keeping a respectful dialogue is a good thing...

Keep em on their toes, I say...Go "RTD" !...:jump:

[Sea Biscuit]

No apology needed. They should have shown THESE photos and not blocked the photo with some graphics. He was just questioning their mistake, why should he be the one apologizing?

The apology was the right thing to do under the circumstances.

The thing we learned from this thread it that we should not be pointing fingers at others and calling them crooks, without examining the full evidence first.

[BirdEyedFalcon]

The apology was the right thing to do under the circumstances.

The thing we learned from this thread it that we should not be pointing fingers at others and calling them crooks, without examining the full evidence first.

And yet you started a form reversal thread with exactly zero evidence. SHM:bang:

[wiffleball whizz]

And yet you started a form reversal thread with exactly zero evidence. SHM:bang:


Classic!!!! :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[Sea Biscuit]

And yet you started a form reversal thread with exactly zero evidence. SHM:bang:

Zero evidence??

Did you join this forum to attack me or what.

[PaceAdvantage]

Zero evidence??

Did you join this forum to attack me or what.How in the world was that an attack? It was actually a valid observation based on what you stated here.

[Sea Biscuit]

How in the world was that an attack? It was actually a valid observation based on what you stated here.

He said I gave zero evidence.

I gave plenty of evidence in my original in my original post to back whatever I had I had to say.

[PaceAdvantage]

He said I gave zero evidence.

I gave plenty of evidence in my original in my original post to back whatever I had I had to say.You offered zero evidence of what you were implying (that shenanigans had taken place).

[Sea Biscuit]

You offered zero evidence of what you were implying (that shenanigans had taken place).

Maybe not for you, sudden form reversals are trainer shenanigans as far as I am concerned.

For evidence I gave out the print screen of the horse's last 6 past performance lines and also his winning line on May 26.

I don't know what more evidence I could have given out..