NYRA bans the "Indian Charlie" newsletter

[tzipi]

http://www.nyra.com/belmont/statement-from-the-new-york-racing-association-inc-on-the-indian-charlie-publication/

"In light of recent offensive content in the "Indian Charlie" newsletter, The New York Racing Association, Inc. (NYRA) will no longer permit the newsletter to be distributed on the grounds of its racetracks."

Anybody ever read this publication or know what they wrote?

[dannyhill]

http://www.nyra.com/belmont/statement-from-the-new-york-racing-association-inc-on-the-indian-charlie-publication/

"In light of recent offensive content in the "Indian Charlie" newsletter, The New York Racing Association, Inc. (NYRA) will no longer permit the newsletter to be distributed on the grounds of its racetracks."

Anybody ever read this publication or know what they wrote?
Keeneland has also. They advertized in it as well.

[tzipi]

OK, got off my butt and did a little research. Here's what they wrote.

"The announcement appeared to be in response to Saturday's issue, which included an item headlined "How To Keep PETA Operatives From Infiltrating Your Racing Stable." The first suggestion was to "try to hire Mexicans."

"There has never been a known undercover PETA informant from south of the border," the newsletter said. "And let's face it, you would be hard-pressed to find a Mexican who hasn't ... made a meal out of someone's pet dog, cat and/or hamster."

[jballscalls]

Here's a link to Indian Charlie's apology.

http://www.indiancharlie.com/2014/04/30/thursday-may-1-2014/

[BombsAway Bob]

http://www.nyra.com/belmont/statement-from-the-new-york-racing-association-inc-on-the-indian-charlie-publication/

"In light of recent offensive content in the "Indian Charlie" newsletter, The New York Racing Association, Inc. (NYRA) will no longer permit the newsletter to be distributed on the grounds of its racetracks."

Anybody ever read this publication or know what they wrote?
Thanks to twitter, you can still get Charlie's newsletter daily-
https://twitter.com/IndianCharlie1
Our society has such a "Gotcha" mentality today that
complete and utter sarcasm is now considered worthy of "banishment".
When do the book burning & lynchings begin?
i wonder if comedians like Lenny Bruce, Richard Pryor, or Dice Clay
could have performed in our current intolerant environment?

[PaceAdvantage]

Let's not forget this guy Musselman ain't a saint:

http://espn.go.com/horse/news/2000/1208/931528.html

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/ray-s-paddock/indian-charlie-publisher-to-be-sentenced-friday/

[stringmail]

He may be of questionable character, his "newspaper" may be too crass for some and his approach may leave people squirming and if so, then I am guessing it had its intended result.

He certainly has hits and misses.

I would rather tracks/industry people that were targeted by his "watchdog" mentality would perhaps question themselves or behavior as I would like to believe there is a little bit of truth in the various subjects. If not, I still enjoy reading them.

It is too bad NYRA has taken the "pc" approach and is electing to not make the publication available on their grounds. Understandable but I think there is a place for his publication. For some, it may just be in the bathroom.

[JustRalph]

It's trash. can't believe people actually pay to advertise in it

[thespaah]

I'd not heard of Indian Charlie until just recently.
Look, this is satire. That's all.
Apparently political correctness is so very much on the minds of everyone these days, that those of us who have a sense of humor and posses the intelligence to recognize tongue in cheek humor are forced to chuckle to ourselves. Meanwhile those in positions of authority make draconian reactions in dismissing or even banning such dastardly forms of humor...
Like the Claymation Faced lady said, "embrace the suck."

[classhandicapper]

I never even heard of this publication until now. I just read through some of the archive. Some of it is pretty funny stuff. When I first saw the comment that got him into trouble I thought he must be a total idiot for saying something like that. I didn't even realize it was a joke. But in light of what I saw in the archive it was obviously a joke. It might have been in poor taste, but some of the greatest comedians of all time made their living on jokes like that. In this environment I can see why NYRA and others are doing what they are doing, but I really wish we would all lighten up a little.

[the little guy]

There are some extremely ill-informed opinions in this thread.

[Mineshaft]

There are some extremely ill-informed opinions in this thread.




Great then enlighten us your majesty

[cj]

It's trash. can't believe people actually pay to advertise in it

I second this opinion.

[TJDave]

Look, this is satire. That's all.


If you look up 'politically incorrect' this guy's picture pops up.

What kind of native American name is Musselman?

[classhandicapper]

If you look up 'politically incorrect' this guy's picture pops up.



Exactly my first impression even though I never even heard of the guy.

I only read a few issues. In my limited reading he insulted quite a few people, managements etc... often in an off color, mean spirited or impolite way. But you could tell it was an attempt at satire or irreverent humor that some people (especially these days) will find offensive and others will chuckle at when done well. I admit I laughed a couple of times during what I read, but most of it was not funny or good.

[OTM Al]

I'd not heard of Indian Charlie until just recently.
Look, this is satire. That's all.
Apparently political correctness is so very much on the minds of everyone these days, that those of us who have a sense of humor and posses the intelligence to recognize tongue in cheek humor are forced to chuckle to ourselves. Meanwhile those in positions of authority make draconian reactions in dismissing or even banning such dastardly forms of humor...
Like the Claymation Faced lady said, "embrace the suck."

No, it's not. Some of the issues you've seen maybe don't seem so bad, but this guy has gone way over the line to cruel and hurtful and he meant it that way on many occasions. This is no loss and frankly I'm surprised it took this long to get rid of garbage like this.

[classhandicapper]

No, it's not. Some of the issues you've seen maybe don't seem so bad, but this guy has gone way over the line to cruel and hurtful and he meant it that way on many occasions. This is no loss and frankly I'm surprised it took this long to get rid of garbage like this.

How long has he been around?

[PhantomOnTour]

It's trash. can't believe people actually pay to advertise in it
That's twice in about two weeks that we agree, Ralph.
:eek:

[Saratoga_Mike]

No, it's not. Some of the issues you've seen maybe don't seem so bad, but this guy has gone way over the line to cruel and hurtful and he meant it that way on many occasions. This is no loss and frankly I'm surprised it took this long to get rid of garbage like this.

I was always surprised that you could pick up a copy in the racing office. It's very edgy, but he's an equal-opportunity insulter. Therefore, I don't know how the Mexican comment stood out from his past comments.

[OTM Al]

I was always surprised that you could pick up a copy in the racing office. It's very edgy, but he's an equal-opportunity insulter. Therefore, I don't know how the Mexican comment stood out from his past comments.

Honestly it was fairly tame compared with some of the things he said. Straw meet camel's back

[Grits]

I'm surprised that its lasted this long considering its been around--what seems like--forever.

The ONION it is surely not.

[JustRalph]

That's twice in about two weeks that we agree, Ralph.
:eek:

You're coming around!! :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :lol:

[Irish Boy]

Just judging by the quotation above, I have no problem with the decision. That said, there's a really interesting first amendment question lurking in there, given the current status of NYRA (if I'm understanding the status of NYRA vis a vis the NY state government correctly).

[clocker7]

The ruling class is so puckered and uptight these days. Puritans.

[OTM Al]

Just judging by the quotation above, I have no problem with the decision. That said, there's a really interesting first amendment question lurking in there, given the current status of NYRA (if I'm understanding the status of NYRA vis a vis the NY state government correctly).

No, there is no 1st Amendment issue here. The State has not prevented him from publishing his crap. They have only prevented it from being distributed at the track. The track does have the right to exclude any individual they wish under the law.

[classhandicapper]

I read most of the the archive for 2014 last night. The thing I don't understand is why anyone would want to read it even if they aren't offended by some of the stuff in it. Not very entertaining most of the time.

[Irish Boy]

No, there is no 1st Amendment issue here. The State has not prevented him from publishing his crap. They have only prevented it from being distributed at the track. The track does have the right to exclude any individual they wish under the law.
If they are allowing other people to distribute materials but not allowing this guy, it's pretty clear content discrimination. I'm not sure NYRA in its present incarnation can do that. It's not *that* different from a city telling one particular person that she can't distribute flyers in the park when everyone else does it. That's a big no-no, even if they don't stop you from publishing.

[OTM Al]

If they are allowing other people to distribute materials but not allowing this guy, it's pretty clear content discrimination. I'm not sure NYRA in its present incarnation can do that. It's not *that* different from a city telling one particular person that she can't distribute flyers in the park when everyone else does it. That's a big no-no, even if they don't stop you from publishing.

I am unaware of any other unofficial materials distributed on site. As I said though, they have the right by law to ban anyone from the track property, so your analogy doesn't work on a couple levels.

[Little Watermelon]

I am unaware of any other unofficial materials distributed on site. As I said though, they have the right by law to ban anyone from the track property, so your analogy doesn't work on a couple levels.

The Saratoga Special, which is an excellent piece of reporting, is distributed at Saratoga, though not affiliated with the NYRA.

I might as well say it, since I'm contributing to the thread, that I find Indian Charlie hilarious, but I have a sophomoric sense of humor.

[OTM Al]

The Saratoga Special, which is an excellent piece of reporting, is distributed at Saratoga, though not affiliated with the NYRA.

I might as well say it, since I'm contributing to the thread, that I find Indian Charlie hilarious, but I have a sophomoric sense of humor.

It is distributed outside the property to the best of my memory.

[Little Watermelon]

It is distributed outside the property to the best of my memory.

There is a stand outside the escalator to the 2nd floor underneath the stands that has them when I was last there, the last day of the 2013 meet. And I am glad it is there; it is a must-read.

[ultracapper]

I never even heard of this publication until now. I just read through some of the archive. Some of it is pretty funny stuff. When I first saw the comment that got him into trouble I thought he must be a total idiot for saying something like that. I didn't even realize it was a joke. But in light of what I saw in the archive it was obviously a joke. It might have been in poor taste, but some of the greatest comedians of all time made their living on jokes like that. In this environment I can see why NYRA and others are doing what they are doing, but I really wish we would all lighten up a little.

Don Rickles was on Letterman a couple nights ago. Racist satire is alive and well. Letterman looked like he wanted to dive under his desk a couple times.

[Saratoga_Mike]

I am unaware of any other unofficial materials distributed on site. As I said though, they have the right by law to ban anyone from the track property, so your analogy doesn't work on a couple levels.

As long as it isn't based on race, gender or religion, a privately-owned racetrack can certainly do as they please. However, I know the old NJSEA (when it operated the Meadowlands) didn't have such wide discretion b/c of the public ownership status.

[Peter Berry]

Poorly-written, second-rate satire.

No loss at all.

[Irish Boy]

I am unaware of any other unofficial materials distributed on site. As I said though, they have the right by law to ban anyone from the track property, so your analogy doesn't work on a couple levels.
If the first part is true, then they are fine, although it's weird to single out one person or publication if no one else does it; just ban the practice entirely.

The second part just isn't true, as Saratoga Mike pointed out.

The easy solution to this is just to not let people hand out crap at the park. They could certainly do that.

[OTM Al]

If the first part is true, then they are fine, although it's weird to single out one person or publication if no one else does it; just ban the practice entirely.

The second part just isn't true, as Saratoga Mike pointed out.

The easy solution to this is just to not let people hand out crap at the park. They could certainly do that.

If that was really the standard, and I am not sure it really is, they could do that.

[sandpit]

Don Rickles was on Letterman a couple nights ago. Racist satire is alive and well. Letterman looked like he wanted to dive under his desk a couple times.

Letterman wouldn't know comedy if it bit him on the nose

[burnsy]

Great then enlighten us your majesty

I will. Its been around for years. There's not a "real" story in there. "Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story." Almost the entire circulation and readership is the backside of the track. The people that work back there look for it. The whole thing is a joke and always has been for laughs. It must of struck some kind of nerve because there's been worse things than that in there. You guys are kind of clueless. Take a close look at the advertisers (and stories), its all geared towards horse people. It was never meant for the track but Keenland had ads in there. It sucks so bad, then why is it so popular? I've seen people up here looking for it the morning it comes out. It gets handed out all through the backside. Every one back there knows what Indian Charlie is.....even the Mexicans....there's pictures too..just in case...:lol:

[OTM Al]

Another issue which has been missed here deals with laws involving the workplace. An employer who knowingly allows a situation potentially involving harassment to occur in the workplace is liable should such claims be made. This not only applies to the employees but anyone who may come into that workplace, thus you cannot make the argument that trainers, etc. are not employees. For an extreme example, just because the New York (Toys R Us) Racing Association is run by the State in effect, free speech laws, even if they applied here which I still say they don't, still would not override not allowing the KKK to distribute their literature on track property. They would be completely within the laws regarding the workplace to do so.

[clocker7]

Another issue which has been missed here deals with laws involving the workplace. An employer who knowingly allows a situation potentially involving harassment to occur in the workplace is liable should such claims be made. This not only applies to the employees but anyone who may come into that workplace, thus you cannot make the argument that trainers, etc. are not employees. For an extreme example, just because the New York (Toys R Us) Racing Association is run by the State in effect, free speech laws, even if they applied here which I still say they don't, still would not override not allowing the KKK to distribute their literature on track property. They would be completely within the laws regarding the workplace to do so.
Is that a command or a dictate? Or just your wild a-- guess?

[OTM Al]

Is that a command or a dictate? Or just your wild a-- guess?

No. There has been case law in which an employer was held liable for allowing racially charged material on the premises of the workplace which was seen by an individual that was not employed by the employer but was rather subcontracted to be there, who then issued complaint. The relationship between tracks and horsemen is enough to issue the complaint of a hostile work environment. I'll also say where I work harassment issues do come up frequently enough and the office I'm in has to deal with them. You really don't want to mess with these laws if you have half a brain.

[clocker7]

No. There has been case law in which an employer was held liable for allowing racially charged material on the premises of the workplace which was seen by an individual that was not employed by the employer but was rather subcontracted to be there, who then issued complaint. The relationship between tracks and horsemen is enough to issue the complaint of a hostile work environment. I'll also say where I work harassment issues do come up frequently enough and the office I'm in has to deal with them. You really don't want to mess with these laws if you have half a brain.
You're interpreting something similar-but-different, allowing for no legal wiggle room, and issuing an opinion as a practicing lawyer, iow?

I'm not arguing that there are/are not workplace laws. I'm trying to figure out why you seem so cocksure.

[Saratoga_Mike]

You're interpreting something similar-but-different, allowing for no legal wiggle room, and issuing an opinion as a practicing lawyer, iow?

I'm not arguing that there are/are not workplace laws. I'm trying to figure out why you seem so cocksure.

Practices employment law perhaps?

[PaceAdvantage]

You're interpreting something similar-but-different, allowing for no legal wiggle room, and issuing an opinion as a practicing lawyer, iow?

I'm not arguing that there are/are not workplace laws. I'm trying to figure out why you seem so cocksure.You seem like a lawyer yourself...eager to argue your ass off...I'm like that too...

But in this case, you're badgering Al, and I'd prefer you stop.

[OTM Al]

Practices employment law perhaps?

Nope, work in a university but my office has to deal with complaints of harassment in our departments in conjunction with the university's Office of General Council. Also have been trained in workplace issues such as this. I am offering an opinion based on my experience in these areas and it is clear to me that this is not a 1st amendment issue for reasons previously stated and that having such a publication in the workspace can be grounds for a complaint concerning the creation of a hostile workplace if management is aware and allows such a publication to be distributed on their property. You don't need to be a lawyer to understand the laws and the way they work.

Does what is in the particular issue rise to the level of creating a hostile workplace? Maybe, maybe not, though I lean more to the yes than the no. But I am aware of other things he has written that certainly would. Any business would be stupid to take that risk and they are within the law in not letting that happen. If the guy wants to stand outside the gates and hand it out, he can. No one is stopping him from that.

[Dark Horse]

I will. Its been around for years. There's not a "real" story in there. "Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story." Almost the entire circulation and readership is the backside of the track. The people that work back there look for it. The whole thing is a joke and always has been for laughs. It must of struck some kind of nerve because there's been worse things than that in there. You guys are kind of clueless. Take a close look at the advertisers (and stories), its all geared towards horse people. It was never meant for the track but Keenland had ads in there. It sucks so bad, then why is it so popular? I've seen people up here looking for it the morning it comes out. It gets handed out all through the backside. Every one back there knows what Indian Charlie is.....even the Mexicans....there's pictures too..just in case...:lol:

Right. Obama and his rodeo clown all over. The arrogant prick has zero sense of humor where it comes to satire involving anybody other than whites. Does that make Obama the most racist president ever? Or just a politically correct, pathological liar? Take your pick. Back to horses.

[Saratoga_Mike]

You may be right Al - I was giving the NJSEA as an example. I wasn't trying to say NYRA is exactly like NJSEA. Quite frankly, I have (had in the case of NJ) no idea about the legal details of either entity.

[OTM Al]

You may be right Al - I was giving the NJSEA as an example. I wasn't trying to say NYRA is exactly like NJSEA. Quite frankly, I have (had in the case of NJ) no idea about the legal details of either entity.

There's always more to any story than people know before they start talking. Been plenty of things people talked about here over the years I knew more about but was not, at least morally, at liberty to say. To be truthful, I'm not sure where that which is now called NYRA is with regards to being part of the government. Taking it over could create a giant backfire for Cuomo if something incredibly stupid occured, or maybe not. That one would be in the courts for years though if i don't miss my guess. I do feel though that I am more right than wrong on this issue though. Just think back to the "Wandering Dago" food truck fiasco last year at Saratoga if you want a more recent example. Of course in that case there was a contract involved.....

[Saratoga_Mike]

There's always more to any story than people know before they start talking. Been plenty of things people talked about here over the years I knew more about but was not, at least morally, at liberty to say. To be truthful, I'm not sure where that which is now called NYRA is with regards to being part of the government. Taking it over could create a giant backfire for Cuomo if something incredibly stupid occured, or maybe not. That one would be in the courts for years though if i don't miss my guess. I do feel though that I am more right than wrong on this issue though. Just think back to the "Wandering Dago" food truck fiasco last year at Saratoga if you want a more recent example. Of course in that case there was a contract involved.....

I wasn't trying to claim I knew for a fact - sorry if it came across that way.

[OTM Al]

I wasn't trying to claim I knew for a fact - sorry if it came across that way.

No, not at all. What you said sounded quite reasonable. Was making a general statement, not one directed at you, so bad communication on me.

[clocker7]

You seem like a lawyer yourself...eager to argue your ass off...I'm like that too...

But in this case, you're badgering Al, and I'd prefer you stop.

Badgering? I don't know this person, and tried two times to understand how he knew this. (His subsequent answer cleared it up.) I wasn't sure whether he was very close to this agency and had first hand information, or whether he was just some guy.

I'm not a lawyer, and never offered my "legal" opinion about this matter. I asked questions. And explaining this to you here is not arguing with you.