The Coach calls an audible....

[taxicab]

And Kathy Ritvo's phone is blowing up. :eek:

[nijinski]

And Kathy Ritvo's phone is blowing up. :eek:

Is this regarding the bumping of Saez and Stevens getting the mount on
WTC ?

[taxicab]

Is this regarding the bumping of Saez and Stevens getting the mount on
WTC ?

Indeed it is.
I was kind of surprised jockey Saez was taken off.
I had no problems with his rides on WTC.
Now that I think about it, I like Saez day in and day out quite a bit.

[sammy the sage]

I'll make a prediction here...speculation only...WTC just went over the top...and Saez said as much...Coach running him anyways...

will bet against...

[horses4courses]

Nice horse - could be a better one.
Lukas looks like he will run him into the ground.

[wisconsin]

Nice horse - could be a better one.
Lukas looks like he will run him into the ground.

Better call PETA. Someone is running a horse back on just 3 weeks rest :rolleyes:

[Saratoga_Mike]

Nice horse - could be a better one.
Lukas looks like he will run him into the ground.

How could he be better? I'm certainly not a member of the Lukas fan club, but he's done a nice job with this horse.

Would he be "better" if he only raced him three times/yr?

[horses4courses]

How could he be better? I'm certainly not a member of the Lukas fan club, but he's done a nice job with this horse.

Would he be "better" if he only raced him three times/yr?

Let's see how the rest of the year plays out for WTC.
It would surprise me if he makes the BC Classic with a live chance.

[horses4courses]

Better call PETA. Someone is running a horse back on just 3 weeks rest :rolleyes:

They're already watching him.

[Mineshaft]

Nice horse - could be a better one.
Lukas looks like he will run him into the ground.





Lukas run a horse into the ground? No freakin way....

[Mineshaft]

Indeed it is.
I was kind of surprised jockey Saez was taken off.
I had no problems with his rides on WTC.
Now that I think about it, I like Saez day in and day out quite a bit.





He said nothing against Saez-yea right just go ahead and say you fired him on WTC. Dont beat around the bush just come out and say it.

[clocker7]

It will be his 4th race since the Clark on Nov 29th. IOW, over 5 months.

In 1973:

1. Onion beat Secretariat on August 4th after running ten times already that year, the previous one being earlier in the week. He went on to run 32 more races during his career.

2. Prove Out beat Secretariat on September 29th after running 13 times already that year, the previous one being a week earlier at a different track. Four weeks later, he won the Jockey Club Gold Cup. He ran for another calendar year.

And the modern bubble-wrapping for horses (running races that have been shortened since then) STILL isn't good enough for the perfectionists? What next ... one lifetime start apiece?

This has become insane.

[v j stauffer]

I'll make a prediction here...speculation only...WTC just went over the top...and Saez said as much...Coach running him anyways...

will bet against...

There is ZEEEEEEEEEERO chance Saez said something like that.

[horses4courses]

It will be his 4th race since the Clark on Nov 29th. IOW, over 5 months.

In 1973:

1. Onion beat Secretariat on August 4th after running ten times already that year, the previous one being earlier in the week. He went on to run 32 more races during his career.

2. Prove Out beat Secretariat on September 29th after running 13 times already that year, the previous one being a week earlier at a different track. Four weeks later, he won the Jockey Club Gold Cup. He ran for another calendar year.

And the modern bubble-wrapping for horses (running races that have been shortened since then) STILL isn't good enough for the perfectionists? What next ... one lifetime start apiece?

This has become insane.

Maybe it's just me, but I like seeing a horse coming off a freshening of 45+ days every now and then.
Run them every 30 days, or less, and you may have a very long layoff in the future.

All horses are different.
Some thrive on activity.
Looking at WTC running lately, to me he appears a bit flat.
I've been wrong before. Let's see how he does the rest of the year.

Strong Mandate getting ready for the Preakness?
Anyone?

[clocker7]

Looking at WTC running lately, to me he appears a bit flat.

I've never noticed Will Take Charge to be anything other than one that can gut out a close victory ... or miss by a bit. His last 8 races have been firsts or seconds. How can that be considered failure? To me, it looks like genius at work.

[Saratoga_Mike]

I've never noticed Will Take Charge to be anything other than one that can gut out a close victory ... or miss by a bit. His last 8 races have been firsts or seconds. How can that be considered failure? To me, it looks like genius at work.

Have to agree - won a Grade II last out and the prior start he was second in a Grade I, ceding home field advantage to GameOnDude. I wish I owned one who raced so flat.

[sammy the sage]

There is ZEEEEEEEEEERO chance Saez said something like that.

you're probably right in hindsight...."Life at 10" fiasco pretty much proves your point...

still...personally...watching the last race...something doesn't seem right to me...of course I'm wrong more than right...

[Bullet Plane]

I think WTC is running on empty on will get beat.

Last race running sideways.... the zigs... the zags...

He looked like pfffft... unless Revolutionary is one whale of a lot better horse than I think he is...

[Tom]

Comparing him to the horses of 1973.....he would be a claimer.

[Mineshaft]

Comparing him to the horses of 1973.....he would be a claimer.




Wowwwwwwwwwwww..........

[JustRalph]

I have to admit that I'm a fan of the horse.

Not so much of Stevens

Not happy about this

[Mineshaft]

I think WTC is running on empty on will get beat.

Last race running sideways.... the zigs... the zags...

He looked like pfffft... unless Revolutionary is one whale of a lot better horse than I think he is...




His last 8 races hes either 1st or 2nd and those are Grade 1 and 2's. The horse is as honest as they come. But hes not a robot and running back 20 days later and in between you sandwich 2 works in there, to me that spells disaster. I mean the horse is fit as a fiddle why 2 works? Hes not going to get any fitter off those 2 works, once your fit your fit. To me Lukas is taking all the energy out the horse.

[clocker7]

I think that Will Take Charge is a solid horse that benefited from a weak racing year in 2013. (As much as I enjoyed the BC Classic from a competitiveness and close outcome, it was not one for the ages, given the lineup.)

As a result, fans starving for any excitement mentally elevated him to a status that would not be justified in a year filled with better talent, and clamored for careful treatment that could maximize his lifetime output.

I don't look at racing that way. Horses should be tested. It wasn't that long ago when they had demanding schedules and carried weight, in order to establish the worth of champions. Now there is a different ethic of protecting the above average in order to fool history. I'm sorry. I wish that there were more Lucases, for that reason. Elevating excellence while exposing the pretenders should be the very purpose of sport; the habit of maintaining market value through extreme targeting is for bean counters and lovers of mediocrity.

[wisconsin]

Meanwhile, old creaker Wise Dan wheels back after just 22 days rest after losing ground in the stretch last out. I mean, really, he's 7 now and should get a few months rest...especially with those 2 works since his last race...

...tongue obviously planted in my cheek.

But, hey, pick and choose your battles.

[Mineshaft]

Meanwhile, old creaker Wise Dan wheels back after just 22 days rest after losing ground in the stretch last out. I mean, really, he's 7 now and should get a few months rest...especially with those 2 works since his last race...

...tongue obviously planted in my cheek.

But, hey, pick and choose your battles.




it was his first start off a 5 month layoff for gods sake you ever think he got a little tired running against Grade 1 company off a 5 month layoff? And yes i dont like the 2 works since that last race.

[cnollfan]

IMHO Lasix has more than a little to do with horses running back less frequently than they did back in the day. I believe horses become dehydrated on Lasix. It takes longer to bounce back from a strenuous race when dehydrated then when not.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Comparing him to the horses of 1973.....he would be a claimer.


...yeah with a $10 mm tag.

[iceknight]

Comparing him to the horses of 1973.....he would be a claimer. You mean a horse that ran against ONLY 4 other opponents in an age restricted race?

[chadk66]

Lukas probably felt he needed the Buzzer ;)

[forced89]

IMHO Lasix has more than a little to do with horses running back less frequently than they did back in the day. I believe horses become dehydrated on Lasix. It takes longer to bounce back from a strenuous race when dehydrated then when not.

Agree. Tough call for an owner. Lasix is worth up to a length but lengthens the period between races. If I have a cheap claimer, I maybe trade running without Lasix for more starts. If I am running for big purses, I go just the opposite way.

[Mineshaft]

Did Randy Moss just say the horse has no energy because hes been all over the US running and its taken his toll on him? Damn that Randy is a smart guy.

[horses4courses]

Better call PETA. Someone is running a horse back on just 3 weeks rest :rolleyes:



That was a race WTC should have won today.
Your thoughts now?

[horses4courses]

I've never noticed Will Take Charge to be anything other than one that can gut out a close victory ... or miss by a bit. His last 8 races have been firsts or seconds. How can that be considered failure? To me, it looks like genius at work.

Did the genius take the day off today?

[horses4courses]

How could he be better? I'm certainly not a member of the Lukas fan club, but he's done a nice job with this horse.

Would he be "better" if he only raced him three times/yr?

I'm sure he'll have him back to his best by the BC.
The Dirt Mile might be winnable for a horse with such back class.
Sad.... :ThmbDown:

[Mineshaft]

That was a race WTC should have won today.
Your thoughts now?





Done......

[horses4courses]

Done......

I hope not.
But the horse needs a breather.
We all do, from time to time.

[Stillriledup]

Comparing him to the horses of 1973.....he would be a claimer.

You just "Went legend" with this post. Report to the head of the class. :D

[Stillriledup]

That was a race WTC should have won today.
Your thoughts now?

This is what happens when you put "getting a table in the dining room on the big days in American Racing and running a horse that very same day" as your #1 priority.

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=111206&highlight=lukas

[clocker7]

h4c: Running a not-so-spectacular horse and losing happened to the best of trainers throughout history. If you had read what I said on this thread, you would have known that I consider Will Take Charge in any race to be no sure thing. So when one gets buried on the rail early and loses the efficiency of action that this particular horse requires, it should come as no surprise.

It seems that you need approval badly for this series of posts.

[horses4courses]

h4c: Running a not-so-spectacular horse and losing happened to the best of trainers throughout history. If you had read what I said on this thread, you would have known that I consider Will Take Charge in any race to be no sure thing. So when one gets buried on the rail early and loses the efficiency of action that this particular horse requires, it should come as no surprise.

It seems that you need approval badly for this series of posts.

This is a horse who was 2013 HOY material.
Now, the horse is far from right.
Just hoping he is not seriously injured.

Those who dish it out should be able to take some back.
Some people are more capable of that than others, it seems.

[Tom]

Afrer today, a cheap claimer. :lol:

[clocker7]

This is a horse who was 2013 HOY material.
Now, the horse is far from right.
Just hoping he is not seriously injured.

Those who dish it out should be able to take some back.
Some people are more capable of that than others, it seems.
I didn't have a single dime on this horse for the reasons I earlier stated. Too bad that they fell upon blind eyes.

2013 was a meh year for the BC Classic. Look at what happened subsequently. It was only because of taking a chance after losing there that WTC was able to win the Clark, eking out a nice check. Had all the keyboard warriors had their way, he would have been in the barn. Or passing up some of his other paydays.

Losing one race is not the end of the world, which is what I said before also. Automatically attributing a loss to one factor is not exactly profound, either. Now, if this horse turns up lame or goes sour forever, then that will be the time to strut.

[pele polo]

Didn't he finish last of 13 in an Allowance or maiden last year and then go to win multiple graded races to earn champion 3yo?

Give the horse and the trainer a break, geez. Y'all are something else.

[horses4courses]

This is what happens when you put "getting a table in the dining room on the big days in American Racing and running a horse that very same day" as your #1 priority.

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=111206&highlight=lukas

Wesley Ward, and the connections of Pablo Del Monte, decided to skip their free pass into the KY Derby.

Can hear The Coach from here....."They did whaaaaat???" :eek:

[wisconsin]

That was a race WTC should have won today.
Your thoughts now?

I could not care less what happened. A horse lost a race you think he should have won. Happens 100 times everyday there is racing.

I laugh at your personal vendetta. I'm also pretty sure that you thought the winner was overmatched as well, just an optional claimer entered in a Grade 2...but again, you pick and choose your battles. :rolleyes:

[clocker7]

For the edification of the Lukas haters: the horse that won (Moonshine Mullin) has 31 career starts, and also sports one more outing in 2014 than WTC has. In other words, a lesser horse was able to upset a better one, even though his pattern went against the philosophy of the bubble-wrappers.

What lessons should one take, other than some horses might thrive with additional usage, and that each personality is different from others?

[PaceAdvantage]

That was a race WTC should have won today.
Your thoughts now?I didn't think that was a race WTC should have won at all. I thought he looked quite vulnerable in that race based on nothing but numbers, and posted such before the race. I had WTC as my third choice in the race (unfortunately, I had the winner as my fourth choice...duh)

I wanted the :7: badly in the Alysheba...not to be...

[PaceAdvantage]

Done......Laughable. You guys all think he lost because of the way he's been managed.

He lost because he wasn't the best horse in the race going in...he was my third choice overall. Posted before the race.

I wasn't surprised one bit that WTC lost, and it had nothing to do with Lukas or how much he's been raced in his career.

And I doubt very much if he's "done," to use your vernacular.

[Fager Fan]

I didn't think that was a race WTC should have won at all. I thought he looked quite vulnerable in that race based on nothing but numbers, and posted such before the race. I had WTC as my third choice in the race (unfortunately, I had the winner as my fourth choice...duh)

I wanted the :7: badly in the Alysheba...not to be...

What numbers are you talking about? I had the Rags and WTC by far had the superior numbers.

Of course he was vulnerable. The horse switched leads multiple times in the stretch of his last race. The horse needs to be looked over from head to toe by the vet and given a break.

[Mineshaft]

Laughable. You guys all think he lost because of the way he's been managed.

He lost because he wasn't the best horse in the race going in...he was my third choice overall. Posted before the race.

I wasn't surprised one bit that WTC lost, and it had nothing to do with Lukas or how much he's been raced in his career.

And I doubt very much if he's "done," to use your vernacular.




Lets see what happens the rest of the year. If im wrong i eat crow.

[Bullet Plane]

According to some here... I guess they took Saez off because the horse was slow?

That's bad table manners! :lol:

[dannyhill]

I'm not the brightest so let's see if i follow this. Some are bashing the trainer of a horse because he has started 14 times in 16 months. He had 8 consecutive wins or places in grade 1 and grade 2 races and 3.5 million in earnings. Heaven forbid more trainers did such a poor job with a similar situation.

[KingChas]

WTC is now 4starts-1w0p0s at 1&1/16.
Definitely not his best distance.
His previous race, ,lucky he wasn't dq'd.
And I don't believe that was the jocks fault.

The Warning Signs were there for yesterday.

[thespaah]

Better call PETA. Someone is running a horse back on just 3 weeks rest :rolleyes:
EF PETA...They have no credibility.
PETA is not an animal activist organization. PETA is a for profit political group.
That's all.

[PaceAdvantage]

What numbers are you talking about? I had the Rags and WTC by far had the superior numbers.My reading of the TimeformUS numbers lead me to believe he wasn't the best horse in the race.

[johnhannibalsmith]

EF PETA...They have no credibility.
PETA is not an animal activist organization. PETA is a for profit political group.
That's all.

Now come on...

http://fox13now.com/2014/05/01/advocates-request-memorial-marker-for-hundreds-of-turkeys-killed-in-crash/

[Saratoga_Mike]

Maybe it's just me, but I like seeing a horse coming off a freshening of 45+ days every now and then.
Run them every 30 days, or less, and you may have a very long layoff in the future.

All horses are different.
Some thrive on activity.
Looking at WTC running lately, to me he appears a bit flat.
I've been wrong before. Let's see how he does the rest of the year.

Strong Mandate getting ready for the Preakness?
Anyone?

Good call on WTC H2C. I'm still glad we've seen him race a lot of times, but he certainly wasn't good yesterday, as you predicted.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Laughable. You guys all think he lost because of the way he's been managed.

He lost because he wasn't the best horse in the race going in...he was my third choice overall. Posted before the race.

I wasn't surprised one bit that WTC lost, and it had nothing to do with Lukas or how much he's been raced in his career.

And I doubt very much if he's "done," to use your vernacular.

You could certainly make a case for other horses in the race, as you say, but he raced really badly yesterday. With the benefit of hindsight, WTC probably should have been freshened him up and passed on the race (I supported running him).

[horses4courses]

Good call on WTC H2C. I'm still glad we've seen him race a lot of times, but he certainly wasn't good yesterday, as you predicted.

Appreciate it, but I didn't bet against him.
After his fine late 3yo campaign last Fall,
I thought he would be a major force in the older division G1s this year.

Hopefully, time off can have him back by Saratoga.

[Saratoga_Mike]

I hope he's ok - he looked really bad yesterday.

[sammy the sage]

I DID bet...and was rewarded...and in hindsight...once again...think my ORIGINAL was dead nuts accurate...

[Stillriledup]

Laughable. You guys all think he lost because of the way he's been managed.

He lost because he wasn't the best horse in the race going in...he was my third choice overall. Posted before the race.

I wasn't surprised one bit that WTC lost, and it had nothing to do with Lukas or how much he's been raced in his career.

And I doubt very much if he's "done," to use your vernacular.

:D

wow.

[Tom]

Untappable got a 107 Beyer.
The older handicap horses got a 100.

[horses4courses]

Will Take Charge working up a storm in preparation for the Stephen Foster.
Stay tuned.

Quoted from brisnet.com today:

Champion Will Take Charge (Unbridled's Song) breezed three-quarters in 1:12 1/5 Thursday over Churchill Downs' fast main track in preparation for the $500,000 Stephen Foster H. (G1) on June 14. The chestnut four-year-old recorded fractions of :12 1/5, :24 1/5, :36 1/5 and :47 4/5 before galloping out a seven furlongs in 1:27 2/5 for Hall of Fame trainer D. Wayne Lukas. Lukas said that jockey Gary Stevens would be back to ride Will Take Charge in the Foster. "He worked really well," Lukas remarked. When asked about the horse's last start, a sixth-place effort in the May 2 Alysheba (G2), Lukas replied, "He got down inside and not only that but when he wanted to make a run he wasn't able to make a run. I think it was, like so many of these horses, they're not going to be sensational every time. But he's better than most. I think he has the ability to make his own trip in the Foster, we just have to make sure that he gets there." Lukas is shooting for his second Foster win after taking the 1987 edition with Red Attack...