Damn silly ? for TLG

[ultracapper]

Maybe I watch too many movies, but I got to thinking, before Beyer published his numbers and theories, was it "backstretch" knowledge that he had developed a handicapping "edge", and if so, was he ever "approached" by "people" that may have wanted him to "work" for them picking winners?

Watched the movie "Casino" last night, you know, the one in which DeNiro bets football games and horse races for mob bosses.

Sorry about all the """"""""""s.

[thespaah]

Maybe I watch too many movies, but I got to thinking, before Beyer published his numbers and theories, was it "backstretch" knowledge that he had developed a handicapping "edge", and if so, was he ever "approached" by "people" that may have wanted him to "work" for them picking winners?

Watched the movie "Casino" last night, you know, the one in which DeNiro bets football games and horse races for mob bosses.

Sorry about all the """"""""""s.
Actually "Ace Rothestein" played by Deniro was the odds maker. In the movie it was described by Joe Pesci's character how Deniro's character brought the bookmaking opps into his casino. So the bettors had to go there to make bets.
Anyway, the point is taken.

[the little guy]

Before Beyer, weren't "the Speed Boys" making numbers and owning horses ( I feel like Woody Stephens trained for them )? The Ragozin Sheets came out before Picking Winners. Speed figures didn't begin with Beyer.

As far as your allusion to Casino, I would imagine Ace Rothstein was well aware of speed figures. Just a guess, but makes sense.

[ultracapper]

I thought at the end of the movie he was back to "picking winners". Anyhow, yeah, I got the point I was making across.

[ReplayRandall]

Maybe I watch too many movies, but I got to thinking, before Beyer published his numbers and theories, was it "backstretch" knowledge that he had developed a handicapping "edge", and if so, was he ever "approached" by "people" that may have wanted him to "work" for them picking winners?

Watched the movie "Casino" last night, you know, the one in which DeNiro bets football games and horse races for mob bosses.

Sorry about all the """"""""""s.

A great book on Amazon.com is- Frank "Lefty" Rosenthal - The FBI Files-.....This was the person that the movie "Casino" was based on. The real casino was the "Stardust", with the movie name "The Tangiers". The only reason I know this, I worked at the Stardust during his time there and would go on break and sit in the sportsbook and watch his live radio show.......as smart as they come........

[thaskalos]

A great book on Amazon.com is- Frank "Lefty" Rosenthal - The FBI Files-.....This was the person that the movie "Casino" was based on. The real casino was the "Stardust", with the movie name "The Tangiers". The only reason I know this, I worked at the Stardust during his time there and would go on break and sit in the sportsbook and watch his live radio show.......as smart as they come........

It's gotta be easy to pick winners when you are a bagman for the mob.

[thespaah]

Before Beyer, weren't "the Speed Boys" making numbers and owning horses ( I feel like Woody Stephens trained for them )? The Ragozin Sheets came out before Picking Winners. Speed figures didn't begin with Beyer.

As far as your allusion to Casino, I would imagine Ace Rothstein was well aware of speed figures. Just a guess, but makes sense.
Yep....In the movie Ace actually was the one who not only set the lines, but moved the lines as well.

[ReplayRandall]

It's gotta be easy to pick winners when you are a bagman for the mob.

He was the most egotistical odds genius I had ever listened to, and would occasionally show off by giving different gambling theories that were real golden nuggets........In his case, I guess when you have no soul, your services go to the highest bidder.......

[thaskalos]

He was the most egotistical odds genius I had ever listened to, and would occasionally show off by giving different gambling theories that were real golden nuggets........In his case, I guess when you have no soul, your services go to the highest bidder.......

Being a life-long gambler myself...I've taken an interest in the life of Lefty Rosenthal -- the "sports-handicapping genius". I enjoy reading about these "renegade gamblers"... who earn their living by their wits, and never need to suffer the indignity of bowing their heads to a boss.

But Rosenthal wasn't half the player that he was advertised to be...IMO.

[JohnGalt1]

He lived in Florida until he passed away.

He had his own website. He answered questions and had many photos of Geri, his (ex-)wife posted there.

[lamboguy]

He was the most egotistical odds genius I had ever listened to, and would occasionally show off by giving different gambling theories that were real golden nuggets........In his case, I guess when you have no soul, your services go to the highest bidder.......what about the guy that worked at the Union Plaza, Sonny Martin, he was making lines when he was in federal prison in Texas.

[ReplayRandall]

what about the guy that worked at the Union Plaza, Sonny Martin, he was making lines when he was in federal prison in Texas.

Jackie Gaughan brought in two bookmaking giants to run the Union Plaza, Johnny Quinn and Bob Martin........Maybe you were thinking of Sonny Reizner from the Castaways?

[thaskalos]

He is talking about Bob Martin...who served a short stint in prison in the early 80s.

[devilsbag]

Before Beyer, weren't "the Speed Boys" making numbers and owning horses ( I feel like Woody Stephens trained for them )? The Ragozin Sheets came out before Picking Winners.

Jules Fink was the man behind the "speed boys."

Harry Ragozin preceded his son Len.

Ray Taulbot had his pace calculator, which I think he started using sometime after the Civil War.

[Dan Montilion]

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7054&highlight=Cabell

[lamboguy]

Jackie Gaughan brought in two bookmaking giants to run the Union Plaza, Johnny Quinn and Bob Martin........Maybe you were thinking of Sonny Reizner from the Castaways?i knew Rizner also, he was from boston originally. there was a casino host at the hotel that you worked at that was big into horses his name was Mel Golden. Reizner went to work for a new hotel THE RIO after they knocked down the CASTAWAY'S. he was a great guy to know also. his claim to fame was he beat a baseball season in the late 50's pretty good.

[proximity]

Maybe I watch too many movies, but I got to thinking, before Beyer published his numbers and theories, was it "backstretch" knowledge that he had developed a handicapping "edge", and if so, was he ever "approached" by "people" that may have wanted him to "work" for them picking winners?
.

i'm a big fan of mr beyer's work but i think this "edge" was a little overrated. i don't even think the "speed" example horses in picking winners even paid over $10 to win? pw is a great book but if these $30 speed overlays were so common at the time you'd think mr beyer could have profiled at least one of them in the book??? :confused:

[dnlgfnk]

I have much esteem and gratitude for Beyer. Yet, I've already cited where he arranged some facts to fit the narrative...

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1482289&postcount=25

This game is so tough that most of us try to claim something besides the bottom line from racing. For us less visible participants, it's usually pride and ego from winning an internet debate.

And yet, I'm thinking of claiming Jules Fink as my grandfather, and Mort as my uncle...(DNLGFNK = Daniel G. Fink).

[classhandicapper]

I read a bunch of articles on Ace Rothestein's web site before he passed away. A lot of stuff was removed when he died. He was strongly advising people to NOT play horses. :lol: