Some Of Al Stanleys Trainer Power Play Angles Still Good Even Ater 30 Years

[Sea Biscuit]

Here is Al Stanleys Power Play #4. The specifics

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g387/secretariat3/b4fea063-e53b-439c-b6e8-0dd240e05a42_zpsa990c479.png (http://s1099.photobucket.com/user/secretariat3/media/b4fea063-e53b-439c-b6e8-0dd240e05a42_zpsa990c479.png.html)

Get Around Town meets the requirements of the TPP #4

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g387/secretariat3/GetaroundtownApril24_zps55079651.png (http://s1099.photobucket.com/user/secretariat3/media/GetaroundtownApril24_zps55079651.png.html)


3-Get Around Town 28.00 9.10 6.60 20612
1-Derby Dylan 4.10 3.10 6569
6-Canbec Kingkazimir 3.00 3525

A Nashty Business meets the requirements of TPP#4

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g387/secretariat3/ANashtybusinessApril5_zpsf1e794e0.png (http://s1099.photobucket.com/user/secretariat3/media/ANashtybusinessApril5_zpsf1e794e0.png.html)

2-A Nashty Business 35.20 10.80 5.00 20083
1-Oaklea Victor 4.00 3.80 6341
6-Devries Hanover 4.60 2493


I’ll throw in some more as we go along.

[imofe]

I do not think A Nashty Business fits the requirements because he was not 1-4 parked out, but I guess you could consider any 1st quarter park out. Thanks for sharing. I have all of Stanley's stuff and like you said, some of it still applies for specific tracks. Do you find that this one works best at Flmd and Wdb?

[Just a Fan]

The pink screenshot in the example is from 1963. The driver (Veral Bowman) is still active!

I actually am not familiar with Al Stanley, but the racing was so much different then... I think horses pretty much raced single file (unless you got parked) for most of the mile.

I remember reading Tom Ainslie's approach to handicapping, which he wrote in I think the late 60s or early 70s... he would assign points to each horse based on overall time, and then add or subtract points based on other handicapping factors, such as strong final quarters, post or driver changes, etc. He didn't seem to try to do any trip handicapping, which I think is essential in today's racing.

[RaceTrackDaddy]

Wish I still had my copy of Stanley's Law...was not much in price back in the 70's when I bought it, maybe 25 or 35 dollars ....paperback..over the years of use and my neglect makes me long for those days.

The clocking section is what got me the most bang for my buck.

[mrroyboy]

I have it. His followup book has what he calls An A-4 angle. It's a horse that's parked first over early in the race. It doesn't have to be 1-4. That is for his Bread and Butter method.Confusing sometimes.

[Sinner369]

I have it. His followup book has what he calls An A-4 angle. It's a horse that's parked if first over early in the race. It doesn't have to be 1-4. That is for his Bread and Butter method.Confusing sometimes.

It is not confusing if one truly understand what it means..........if you don't understand harness racing but bet it like thoroughbred racing you would be in a fog forever.

[imofe]

His A-10 ( big closers) works great at some tracks. I use a modified version of it at Woodbine.

[Sea Biscuit]

Here is Al's TPP #2.

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g387/secretariat3/TPP2_zps8529f62a.png (http://s1099.photobucket.com/user/secretariat3/media/TPP2_zps8529f62a.png.html)

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g387/secretariat3/OUGusr9apr5_zps1866c6f0.png (http://s1099.photobucket.com/user/secretariat3/media/OUGusr9apr5_zps1866c6f0.png.html)

2-O U Gus 27.60 13.70 7.00 25129

10-Unabating 8.90 5.40 8496

7-House Of Cash 11.90 4250

I might add this play came up on the same day when A Nashty Business won. Thats 2 for Al on the same day.

[Sea Biscuit]

The pink screenshot in the example is from 1963. The driver (Veral Bowman) is still active!



I very much doubt that race could have been from 1963.

The newsletter itself was dated 1983.

[Sea Biscuit]

I do not think A Nashty Business fits the requirements because he was not 1-4 parked out, but I guess you could consider any 1st quarter park out. Thanks for sharing. I have all of Stanley's stuff and like you said, some of it still applies for specific tracks. Do you find that this one works best at Flmd and Wdb?

I play only Woodbine and Mohawk.

The above examples are for Woodbine.

[Just a Fan]

I very much doubt that race could have been from 1963.

The newsletter itself was dated 1983.


You're right. I was trying to read the horse's boxscore for the current and previous year, and I thought it said 1962 and 1963. But the horse's sire is True Duane, who raced in the 60s. And a quick google search on the horse (Duer Die) brings up some newspaper clippings showing him racing at Vernon in 1982.

[Sea Biscuit]

Trainer Power Play #16 A horse which shows two distinct moves in a race

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g387/secretariat3/DingApr11R1_zps524f20b8.png (http://s1099.photobucket.com/user/secretariat3/media/DingApr11R1_zps524f20b8.png.html)

Shows up at Woodbine for his next race...

1-Ding 20.70 8.10 5.40 18125
5-One Last Bono 6.20 3.80 6696
6-Lyonsaura 4.00 3476

[Sea Biscuit]

Here is another classic recent example of a 2 move horse. Carmen Auciello is a very high % trainer for first time starters. As a matter of fact Auciello is leading the trainer standings at Woodbine currently. He had claimed Four Starz Hold Em for an owner and put him into the 5th race on April 28 an 8-10000 claiming handicap race. This is how his performance line looked on April 28 race

6 Four Starz Hold Em 6 1/1T 3/3T 6/4H 5/5H 2/T 1:52.4 27.3 A Macdonald 2.60 C Auciello

He took lead at the quarter pole his 1st move in a sizzling 25.4 seconds only to find himself shuffled back to 6th at the 3/4 mark. He then made his 2nd move in the stretch only to come 2nd by 3/4 length.

Watch this race

http://bcove.me/c6fpa7ep

and put this horse in your VS stable for next time out.

[LottaKash]

Biscuit, thx for reviving some old tried and true Angles....It is good for all of us from time to time to revisit things that make sense in a handicapping way...

Thru the years I have learned to dwell on the "running lines" of each and every horse in each and every race....Often times, even now, I too can spot some patterns of Angles that still produce some nice paying winners, even in today's realm of racing...

From time to time I will go back thru my Al Stanley Newsletters and digest the viability of using those very same Angles that he suggested so many years ago....And often enough, "most" of them still stand the test of time, especially so at some tracks more than others....

Once a handicapper can find and prove a viable & consistent way of assessing Speed, Pace or any other mode of using Time as a handicapping constant, he can now move on to Proven Angles and put that speed knowledge to good use in a partnership when trying to assess a horse's true ability and a Trainer's intentions on Raceday.....

Thx Al S. for leaving a lasting and meaningful legacy of treasures....You were my favorite teacher and handicapping role model....

[Just a Fan]

Keep these coming, these are interesting. I see he refers to the "2 move" horse as a "trainer" power play. Is he saying that a 2 move effort is more relevant for a particular type of trainer, or does it apply to any horse that exhibits a race line like this?

I think you could find individual winners that fit just about any handicapping angle over the span of a week or two, but you would have to keep track of these angles on a particular circuit for a couple of months to get a sense of whether they can provide a positive ROI.

Get Around Town is the sort of horse that I never would have bet moving to the big track... perhaps I need to recalibrate!

[Sea Biscuit]

Just a Fan He calls all his angle plays Trainer Power Plays for reasons best known to him.

Here is another example of TPP #4. Same horse Ding who won with 2 moves Sometimes they don't win but you can hook them in the exacta with the favorite who is good to go in the race. He went off at 7-1 and came 2nd to the favorite inspite of his atrocious 8th by 10 lengths finish in his last race.

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g387/secretariat3/DingApril25_zpsff20d520.png (http://s1099.photobucket.com/user/secretariat3/media/DingApril25_zpsff20d520.png.html)

6-One Last Bono 4.60 3.10 2.70 17867

3-Ding 4.90 3.50 6473

4-Olive Thompson 5.00 2860



$2 DAILY DOUBLE (3-6) paid 23.30, pool 12294

$2 EXACTOR (6-3) paid 19.90, pool 21794

$2 TRIACTOR (6-3-4) paid 119.80, pool 25484

[Ray2000]

.....

From time to time I will go back thru my Al Stanley Newsletters ...



the Clocker (member here and a Survivor Challenge Champ) still has

Al Stanley's Harness Handicapping Newsletters Archive available online.

http://www.handicappingharness.com/al-stanley-sunday/

search on "stanley" for complete archive

[mrroyboy]

The confusing part, at least to me, is that he wrote 3 books. One was Stanleys Law which described his Bread and Butter method. Then his Professional Methodology which has his a-4, A-10 angles and then a Angles book. I have the first 2. He also has a newsletter which you quoted from. I just get mixed up about which to apply and when.

[mrroyboy]

The clocker won the Survival Contest? Didn't know that. Congradulations

[Ray2000]

The clocker won the Survival Contest? Didn't know that. Congradulations


A past year 1st place Winner...........2010?

[mrroyboy]

Still congrats

[Sea Biscuit]

I thought it would be more fun to high light these horses before the race rather than after.

Heres another one entered to race on Thursday May 1 race 8. Better Art He fits AS's TPP 4 perfectly and I am confident he will win. He is also getting major post position relief here compared to his last 2 outings.

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g387/secretariat3/BettorArt_zpse6350f9b.png (http://s1099.photobucket.com/user/secretariat3/media/BettorArt_zpse6350f9b.png.html)

I bet him at low odds from the 9 hole but he got caught up in wicked early fractions. Also had the exacta box with the winner but my horse ended up 4th.The Horse who beat him is also in the same race with post 7.

Hoping for 5/2 or better. We shall see.

[Sea Biscuit]

the Clocker (member here and a Survivor Challenge Champ) still has

Al Stanley's Harness Handicapping Newsletters Archive available online.

http://www.handicappingharness.com/al-stanley-sunday/

search on "stanley" for complete archive

Clocker hasn't chimed in at PA in quite a while.

His last message at his website is dated August 2013.

Hope all is well with Clocker.

Hey Clocker if you are reading this message, please let us know whats going on in your life.

[imofe]

Sea Biscuit

Since they are switching tracks I was hoping you could share some of Stanley's stuff that you think works well at Mohawk. Really enjoyed the Woodbine material.

[mrroyboy]

I believe Al Stanley's best thing is his definition of a good race or a horse in good form.
Horse must have done something early in the race, must maintain that "something" through the middle of the race AND finish the race competitively. If any one of these are missing it's not that good of a race or the horse may not be in as good a shape as you think.
I think this is true today as it was years ago.

[LottaKash]

I believe Al Stanley's best thing is his definition of a good race or a horse in good form.
Horse must have done something early in the race, must maintain that "something" through the middle of the race AND finish the race competitively. If any one of these are missing it's not that good of a race or the horse may not be in as good a shape as you think.
I think this is true today as it was years ago.

So true, for me at least, and you know Roy, from time to time, it is a good thing, that all horseplayers must remind themselves and each other about how important the fitness of a horse really is.....An unfit horse cannot win (mostly, haha)...

Good Form & Fitness to me, is a horse that can set, maintain, or overcome any pace scenario....And, if he is well spotted, and can keep up numbers wise, well then, your really have something going for you, a prime contender...Unless of course, they have utterly peaked and are returning the other way, haha... Which imo, is just as important to know, as well...

[mrroyboy]

Agree 100%

[Sinner369]

You know what I like to see???..................instead of reading all 64 newsletter..........if someone could post all of Al Stanley's rules in one post and we can see if they are all relevant in today's handicapping world.

[Longshot6977]

You know what I like to see???..................instead of reading all 64 newsletter..........if someone could post all of Al Stanley's rules in one post and we can see if they are all relevant in today's handicapping world.

Great idea Sinner. Thanks for volunteering. Please report back here with them in a big post in 1 week. :)

[mrroyboy]

LOL

[Sinner369]

Great idea Sinner. Thanks for volunteering. Please report back here with them in a big post in 1 week. :)

I like to gauge how many are interested in reading all of Al Stanley's angles' first before I take on this project?

Please, respond here on this thread first before I can take on project.......???

[Sea Biscuit]

I like to gauge how many are interested in reading all of Al Stanley's angles' first before I take on this project?

Please, respond here on this thread first before I can take on project.......???

Go ahead. I am interested.

[Secondbest]

Me too

[bugboy]

me 3

[LottaKash]

.

"4"....:jump:

.

[Longshot6977]

Me 5

[imofe]

6

[mrroyboy]

7

[Sinner369]

7

Guys........seven is not enough.......I am looking for a magic number to make the project worthwhile...........!!!

I should mention that 2 year old champion "He's Watching" is making his three year old debut tonight at Yonkers..........he's in the 9th race.....# 2.

You can catch the race here......www.yonkersraceway.com/livevideo/.....!

The race is the first elimination of the Art Rooney and final is next Saturday.

[Tom]

8

[thaskalos]

9

[Ray2000]

. :10:

[Sinner369]

Guys you hit the magic number 10 ............it's not from the newsletter but from Al's Handicapping Angle book (manual).

Attached is Al's 25 harness handicapping Angles..."Table of Content"....

See attached PDF...........


One cannot possibly explain all 25 angles in this post but if you want to email me privately I will try to explain the ones you are interested in.

I believe you still can buy Al's book at the Gamblers Book Club.

[Ray2000]

I kinda reluctantly put my name on the "interested" list because I didn't want to put you in a copyright pickle but I was interested and wanted to see how you'd handle it. .....Good job

What I'd really like to see is a discussion of those Table of Contents angles by the PA members here. A lot of sharp cappers here, and it would be interesting to see if they think those angles still work.

[Sinner369]

I kinda reluctantly put my name on the "interested" list because I didn't want to put you in a copyright pickle but I was interested and wanted to see how you'd handle it. .....Good job

What I'd really like to see is a discussion of those Table of Contents angles by the PA members here. A lot of sharp cappers here, and it would be interesting to see if they think those angles still work.

Ray you are absolutely correct.........I do not want to harm Mr. Stanley in anyway.......I'm just interested in learning more about this handicapping game.......it's like a life long learning process!

[Sinner369]

I kinda reluctantly put my name on the "interested" list because I didn't want to put you in a copyright pickle but I was interested and wanted to see how you'd handle it. .....Good job

What I'd really like to see is a discussion of those Table of Contents angles by the PA members here. A lot of sharp cappers here, and it would be interesting to see if they think those angles still work.

To start......Ray's suggestion.........Al's "early speed/stretch gain angle still work's today.......I used it this winter in our Northlands winter horse meet.

Thanks, Al.

[Sea Biscuit]

Guys you hit the magic number 10 ............it's not from the newsletter but from Al's Handicapping Angle book (manual).

Attached is Al's 25 harness handicapping Angles..."Table of Content"....

See attached PDF...........


One cannot possibly explain all 25 angles in this post but if you want to email me privately I will try to explain the ones you are interested in.

I believe you still can buy Al's book at the Gamblers Book Club.

I was hoping you would discuss all the angles here on the open forum. I am sure Stanley wouldn't mind as he has given Clocker permission to download all his newsletters, which all have a copyright, from his site.

[Sinner369]

I was hoping you would discuss all the angles here on the open forum. I am sure Stanley wouldn't mind as he has given Clocker permission to download all his newsletters, which all have a copyright, from his site.

Isn't that's what we are doing?..........you see the list.......which ones are still useful............???

[Longshot6977]

You know what I like to see???..................instead of reading all 64 newsletter..........if someone could post all of Al Stanley's rules in one post and we can see if they are all relevant in today's handicapping world.

Sounds like you backed out of posting all the rules in one post like you said. It's ok though. It's legal to post them since he gave Clocker permission previously and they are already on the free web. I am downloading all 64 newsletters and putting them in a zip file (which will never be able to upload to this site anyway due to size).

I do like his 'Z' pattern (is that the same as the early speed/stretch gain angle mentioned above?) I find it works well for both T-bred and standardbred. A horse puts 2 efforts in one race. He comes out fast early, then backs off, then comes on strong again near the stretch. That angle still works good today and is very easy to spot in the PP's. A good sign for cheap claimers and maidens too.

[Sinner369]

Sounds like you backed out of posting all the rules in one post like you said. It's ok though. It's legal to post them since he gave Clocker permission previously and they are already on the free web. I am downloading all 64 newsletters and putting them in a zip file (which will never be able to upload to this site anyway due to size).

I do like his 'Z' pattern (is that the same as the early speed/stretch gain angle mentioned above?) I find it works well for both T-bred and standardbred. A horse puts 2 efforts in one race. He comes out fast early, then backs off, then comes on strong again near the stretch. That angle still works good today and is very easy to spot in the PP's. A good sign for cheap claimers and maidens too.

Longshot........that's the thing.........when you read the "angles" you learn to modify or change some of the angles to fit your home track or the track that you favor.........the angles should generate or get you thinking about other
"patterns" that exists in todays harness handicapping.

As for me side skipping the "angles" from the newsletters.........they should be the same since it's by the same author.....but if you find anything new by all means post and share with the rest of us.............

[Sinner369]

Sounds like you backed out of posting all the rules in one post like you said. It's ok though. It's legal to post them since he gave Clocker permission previously and they are already on the free web. I am downloading all 64 newsletters and putting them in a zip file (which will never be able to upload to this site anyway due to size).

I do like his 'Z' pattern (is that the same as the early speed/stretch gain angle mentioned above?) I find it works well for both T-bred and standardbred. A horse puts 2 efforts in one race. He comes out fast early, then backs off, then comes on strong again near the stretch. That angle still works good today and is very easy to spot in the PP's. A good sign for cheap claimers and maidens too.

Longshot....I see it is working.......you are thinking of other patterns (Z) already and by the way I downloaded the newsletters last year.

And if you look at who "suggested the site" to find these Al Stanley newsletters............it was me.......!

[Ray2000]

Lasix Angle........2nd start still applies
Particularly if the 1st start showed an improved 4th Q time from previous races
Base stats
2013 All Starters 373144
Winners...48218
Strike.....12.9%
ROI.......0.732

2ndxLasix
Starters 3712
Winners...530
Strike.....14.3%
ROI......0.800


Reversed Class Angle...............still true
My current bot includes what I call the "Bizarro Class Shift", a credit when crunching the numbers.
Not just for young horses finding their level, also works for older horses suddenly waking up.



Trainer Change Angle

Same trainer as last start
356184 starters
45187 winners 12.7%
0.72 roi


different trainer from last start
22953 starters
3478 winners 15.2%
0.81 roi

Trainer ability not considered in these numbers, just the change in scenery :)

[Sinner369]

Ray............thanks for getting us back on track.............to the original intention of the thread........!!!

[Sea Biscuit]

Mohawk May 24

Put Muscle Babe in your VS stable. Showed 2 classic moves in the fastest quarters of the race to win the SBOA elims for 3 yr filly trotters. Her race line looked liked this:

6 Muscle Babe 6 1/2Q 3/5 5/5H 5/5 1/H 1:54.3 27.3 Ja Macdonald 32.85 D Menary


The race fractions were 27.2-29.1-29.2-28.3

Video replay

http://bcove.me/howyv79g

[Sinner369]

Mohawk May 24

Put Muscle Babe in your VS stable. Showed 2 classic moves in the fastest quarters of the race to win the SBOA elims for 3 yr filly trotters. Her race line looked liked this:

6 Muscle Babe 6 1/2Q 3/5 5/5H 5/5 1/H 1:54.3 27.3 Ja Macdonald 32.85 D Menary


The race fractions were 27.2-29.1-29.2-28.3

Video replay

http://bcove.me/howyv79g





Sea Biscuit...........I was wondering why the 30 to 1 odds so I downloaded the program from last Saturday.......the horse was coming off a Qualifier where she just ran a even race then in her first race............the horse just went for a training mile.....against tougher horses.

Does this call for a hidden line??.......the horse won for fun even though that was her second start......the trainer did everything to hide her form?

[Longshot6977]

Mohawk May 24

Put Muscle Babe in your VS stable. Showed 2 classic moves in the fastest quarters of the race to win the SBOA elims for 3 yr filly trotters. Her race line looked liked this:

6 Muscle Babe 6 1/2Q 3/5 5/5H 5/5 1/H 1:54.3 27.3 Ja Macdonald 32.85 D Menary


The race fractions were 27.2-29.1-29.2-28.3

Video replay

http://bcove.me/howyv79g




Awesome performance. Let's just hope the odds are decent next time. I just added him to my VS.

[Sea Biscuit]

Awesome performance. Let's just hope the odds are decent next time. I just added him to my VS.

There were three elimination rounds for the SBOA that night.

If she races against the winners of the other two races, I wouldn't be surprised if we get 3-1 or 4-1.

We shall see.

[traynor]

Stanley's criteria were developed over a limited number of races at a limited number of tracks. Like many, many other strategies, those strategies may profitably be applied to other groups of races. However, they are just as likely to fail miserably when applied to still other groups of races. That is a reality of applying strategies developed from small samples to different samples.

Ray2000's data illustrates that fact. A strategy that is profitable (or not) at one track, or one set of tracks, may have completely different results when applied to another track or set of tracks. It is the nature of using data segments to extrapolate (possible) future results.

When the highs and lows are mixed together, the results do not accurately describe (or provide prescriptions of future strategies for) either data set. The relationships assumed (and described) do not exist in reality--they exist only in that particular mix of data.

[Ray2000]

It's true the game is always changing, as more and more players (organic and chips) use those old Stanley angles the competition gets tougher and tougher. Those angles will still let you beat the Monkey Score but not by enough to beat the game.

My Strike Rate remains constant, Average Return when successful is dropping like a rock. :p

[traynor]

Consider a company with 10 employees. Nine earn 10,000 a year. The tenth, a manager, earns 100,000. The "average salary" (19,000) does not accurately describe any of the components used, much less provide a prescription of how much a potential future employee can expect to earn.

Stanley's ideas may be quite useful, but need to be applied to individual sets of races to see how (and if) they might be profitable at your particular track. Whether or not they work, or do not work, at someone else's track should be a matter of concern for that someone else, rather than for you.

[traynor]

It's true the game is always changing, as more and more players (organic and chips) use those old Stanley angles the competition gets tougher and tougher. Those angles will still let you beat the Monkey Score but not by enough to beat the game.

My Strike Rate remains constant, Average Return when successful is dropping like a rock. :p

That is because horse race betting is a competition between bettors, not between horses. In every block of races studied, the key factor in understanding is that at the time those races were run, knowledge of the outcomes did not exist. Once the outcomes are known, astute bettors will adjust their strategies to exploit any possible advantage.

Yesterday's profitable strategy is barely break even today, and will probably be a loser tomorrow. Fortunately, many seem unable to grasp that simple concept, and spend endless hours programming applications to locate things that would have worked yesterday.

[RaceTrackDaddy]

Seems to me a bigger problem than programming or statistical analysis is the fact that this game is designed to generate profits for the house and not for the gambler. With the addition of slot and table game revenues, the racinos could have taken a smaller cut or the legislator should have addressed it to the same levels as slot players. In Pennsylvania, the slots have to pay out no less than 85 percent. A effective retention rate of 15%. If that was the same in harness racing in the commonwealth, all handicapping systems would see an increase in profits. Will it make us rich, no, but it would at least be a fair game.

I can't tell you the last time I bet a trifecta in PA since 2010 when they raised the rate from 29% to the state max of 35%. I couldn't tell you as I refuse to bet into a pool with such usury taxation rates.

This game has changed over the years and it is tougher to predict a winner; but it should not be impossible to make a profit or else why even play the game? Maybe these states someday will learn that the rake is not a good thing for this sport, especially at 35%.

[RaceTrackDaddy]

Been a long while since I read Stanley's Law back in the 1970's but clocking warmup miles was one part that I took to heart.

I was wondering if Stanley in any of his books wrote on going to the track and watching qualifiers? If he did, could someone please point me in the right direction. I have found that was one of my most useful tools in handicapping.

Had one win easily last night in stake action at Hoosier, Jessie's Song in the 11th.

[mrroyboy]

The basics like speed, class etc will always be the key. What changes are the names, faster speeds etc. Angles based on these factors will always (work). It just a matter of getting value and you are right about the track take. It does need to be lowered for sure.
Here is the thing. I was a poker dealer/floorman for almost 20 yrs. I am also a semi-professional poker player. Like horse racing the house takes a pct of the pot so they get theirs up front. The key is to beat the other players and do enough to overcome the rake. Horse racing is exactly the same only the rake is outrageous.
Bottom line Good handicappers will do much better than bad handicappers. Enough said.

[Sinner369]

Consider a company with 10 employees. Nine earn 10,000 a year. The tenth, a manager, earns 100,000. The "average salary" (19,000) does not accurately describe any of the components used, much less provide a prescription of how much a potential future employee can expect to earn.

Stanley's ideas may be quite useful, but need to be applied to individual sets of races to see how (and if) they might be profitable at your particular track. Whether or not they work, or do not work, at someone else's track should be a matter of concern for that someone else, rather than for you.

traynor........bad example.........If you ever worked and managed....there is no manager that should make ten times more than the people he/she supervises.

Nobody is saying to follow Stanley 's laws (principle) 100%.........we are saying some still applies and like everything else (even if it was invented yesterday).....you have to modify it to suit your own track that you follow.

[traynor]

traynor........bad example.........If you ever worked and managed....there is no manager that should make ten times more than the people he/she supervises.

Nobody is saying to follow Stanley 's laws (principle) 100%.........we are saying some still applies and like everything else (even if it was invented yesterday).....you have to modify it to suit your own track that you follow.

I was being conservative. The actual ratio I was thinking was that between CEO's and salaried employees. MUCH higher. Most (small to medium) business owners (who primarily manage) would consider a 10-1 ratio quite low. I guess it all depends on one's definition of "manager." Like many others, I don't consider line managers as anything more than another tier of employee. I should have been more specific, and used a term indicating executive instead of the rather ambiguous "manager."

[Sea Biscuit]

Mohawk May 24

Put Muscle Babe in your VS stable. Showed 2 classic moves in the fastest quarters of the race to win the SBOA elims for 3 yr filly trotters. Her race line looked liked this:

6 Muscle Babe 6 1/2Q 3/5 5/5H 5/5 1/H 1:54.3 27.3 Ja Macdonald 32.85 D Menary


The race fractions were 27.2-29.1-29.2-28.3

Video replay

http://bcove.me/howyv79g




Muscle Babe is in tonight at Mohawk in the 5th.

This is a much tougher group than he faced last time out but I am sticking with him/ W/P with 4567

Good luck

[Charlie]

The basics like speed, class etc will always be the key. What changes are the names, faster speeds etc. Angles based on these factors will always (work). It just a matter of getting value and you are right about the track take. It does need to be lowered for sure.
Here is the thing. I was a poker dealer/floorman for almost 20 yrs. I am also a semi-professional poker player. Like horse racing the house takes a pct of the pot so they get theirs up front. The key is to beat the other players and do enough to overcome the rake. Horse racing is exactly the same only the rake is outrageous.
Bottom line Good handicappers will do much better than bad handicappers. Enough said.

Agreed, good handicappers will always do much better than bad handicappers, but I believe that in today's game there are many more good handicappers than bad. In my day, the 60's, 70's and even the 80's, a horse may have paid $12.00, but today, that same type horse will pay $6.00. There were just so many more fans back then and many of them were just that, fans, not handicappers. Both thoroughbred and harness racing now have the same problem. That being people have so many other games to wager on. Casino's, lotteries and even other forms of gambling are attracting the younger generation. So for me, it was easier to profit when the odds on a selection were twice as good as what they are today. Oh how I loved the good old days.

[traynor]

Agreed, good handicappers will always do much better than bad handicappers, but I believe that in today's game there are many more good handicappers than bad. In my day, the 60's, 70's and even the 80's, a horse may have paid $12.00, but today, that same type horse will pay $6.00. There were just so many more fans back then and many of them were just that, fans, not handicappers. Both thoroughbred and harness racing now have the same problem. That being people have so many other games to wager on. Casino's, lotteries and even other forms of gambling are attracting the younger generation. So for me, it was easier to profit when the odds on a selection were twice as good as what they are today. Oh how I loved the good old days.

Exactly. That is why it is counterproductive to cling to the old ways of locating selections--everyone is doing it the same way. The reason those horses paid $12 in the good old days is because the majority of bettors were chasing "class" or "trainer angles" or "comprehensive handicapping" the same way a new generation of bettors chases pace or speed. The $12 (and up) horses are still out there, and in at least as great numbers as in the good old days. They just take new approaches and new strategies to locate them.

[judd]

[QUOTE=Sea Biscuit]Muscle Babe is in tonight at Mohawk in the 5th.

:) :ThmbUp:

[Sea Biscuit]

Muscle Babe is in tonight at Mohawk in the 5th.

This is a much tougher group than he faced last time out but I am sticking with him/ W/P with 4567

Good luck

Muscle Babe paid $9.10-5.10

Yup that 2 move angle still good after 30 years.

Thanks Al.

[Sea Biscuit]

[QUOTE=Sea Biscuit]Muscle Babe is in tonight at Mohawk in the 5th.

:) :ThmbUp:

Thanks Judd

[mrroyboy]

Nice price

[Faceless Enemy]

got some help when the better horses on paper made breaks....

[Sea Biscuit]

got some help when the better horses on paper made breaks....

Faceless Enemy: Welcome to the forum.

Thanks for letting us know about the 'better' horses making breaks in the race.

Personally I feel the best horse won the race. I may be biased in my opinion though.:jump:

[Faceless Enemy]

Thanks for the welcome.


I thought mentioning that was pertinent to the discussion....Your pick was a solid example of the angle and I hope to see others post some more. James Macdonald isn't exactly the type of driver I prefer to bet on, but he has been doing rather well lately with trotters.....

I must also say that the Al Stanley material is a must read for any harness handicapper. It's a shame that there hasn't been a new author to replace him and share some knowledge that is geared toward the current state of racing.

[mrroyboy]

Not true Bob Pandolfo's books and articles have plenty of good stuff. In fact he has a revised method of Al Stanley's Bread and Butter method and some other things very similar to Al Stanleys ideas. Trotpicks.com is his website.