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Augenj
04-26-2014, 02:41 PM
For those who want to bet with ADWs from an "unapproved" state or even offshore, has anybody tried this method? Would it work or not? Just curious because I live in Nevada, an unapproved state. Not saying I'd do anything illegal, of course. ;)

CyberGhost VPN (http://www.cyberghostvpn.com/en_us)

davew
04-26-2014, 03:10 PM
The problem becomes getting money into and out of the site.

Augenj
04-26-2014, 04:53 PM
The problem becomes getting money into and out of the site.
Would you elaborate on that? I don't know squat about ADW.

Robert Goren
04-26-2014, 05:23 PM
Would you elaborate on that? I don't know squat about ADW. At some point, you will have to give them something such as home address or bank account number which can be trace to a state if you want them to send you your money. Now if never win enough to make a withdrawal.....

Augenj
04-26-2014, 05:34 PM
At some point, you will have to give them something such as home address or bank account number which can be trace to a state if you want them to send you your money. Now if never win enough to make a withdrawal.....
Thanks. I think that can be overcome. I was more concerned about authorities correlating Internet activities to me in the highly unlikely event that I would consider doing this. :D

Robert Goren
04-26-2014, 05:44 PM
Thanks. I think that can be overcome. I was more concerned about authorities correlating Internet activities to me in the highly unlikely event that I would consider doing this. :D The only authority you have to worry about is the ADW. The ADW on the other had has to worry about their hub. The ADWs have a reason to at least appear to vigilant. No doubt there are ways around the getting your money problem. The question is it worth the effort.

BettinBilly
04-26-2014, 07:36 PM
ADW companies use Internet IP Address verification to allow you to place wagers. The IP address is cross referenced to a valid state. Some are automatic, and some (Like TVG) ask you when you log in what state you are in.
In either case, the system will correlate the IP address to the State it is originating from before the site will allow you to place a wager.

If you VPN Tunnel in to a server, say, in Florida when you are in, say Hawaii, the VPN will broadcast a Florida IP to the ADW and you will be able to place wagers.

If you "Ghost" in, some ghost IP companies simply reflect the ADW server's IP back to it as the represented IP. Thus, it may not work as the ADW service should "sniff" this out as a ghosting IP simply reflecting back the ADW IP address. It depends on the Ghosting software/service you are using and the ADW you are trying to Ghost into.

I am not advocating this, I am simply answering your technical question.

I happen to reside in a legal ADW state, so I have no issues. I have stated on this board that "IF" I happened to live in a non legal ADW state where there was no OTB or a Track, I would indeed find a way to wager online.

Augenj
04-26-2014, 07:48 PM
ADW companies use Internet IP Address verification to allow you to place wagers. The IP address is cross referenced to a valid state. Some are automatic, and some (Like TVG) ask you when you log in what state you are in.
In either case, the system will correlate the IP address to the State it is originating from before the site will allow you to place a wager.

If you VPN Tunnel in to a server, say, in Florida when you are in, say Hawaii, the VPN will broadcast a Florida IP to the ADW and you will be able to place wagers.

If you "Ghost" in, some ghost IP companies simply reflect the ADW server's IP back to it as the represented IP. Thus, it may not work as the ADW service should "sniff" this out as a ghosting IP simply reflecting back the ADW IP address. It depends on the Ghosting software/service you are using and the ADW you are trying to Ghost into.

I am not advocating this, I am simply answering your technical question.

I happen to reside in a legal ADW state, so I have no issues. I have stated on this board that "IF" I happened to live in a non legal ADW state where there was no OTB or a Track, I would indeed find a way to wager online.
Great response. Thanks. :ThmbUp:

JustRalph
04-26-2014, 08:01 PM
ADW companies use Internet IP Address verification to allow you to place wagers. The IP address is cross referenced to a valid state.

Nope.

I can tell you for sure, doesn't work that way, at least not automatically

BettinBilly
04-26-2014, 08:12 PM
Nope.

I can tell you for sure, doesn't work that way, at least not automatically

You absolutely sure? I got this from an IT guy at an ADW. They may not ALL work that way, but he assures me, his does.

The ADW sniffs the IP, and if it is in a non-valid state, online wagering is blocked. This is almost a direct quote from him. He is wrong? I assumed he knew his job. ;)

davew
04-26-2014, 08:18 PM
I am guessing all ADWs have different programmers, platforms and restrictions.


From the betting platform on a few ADWs I have had/visited, I am assuming that many programmers have never placed a bet in their life.

BettinBilly
04-26-2014, 08:37 PM
I am guessing all ADWs have different programmers, platforms and restrictions.


From the betting platform on a few ADWs I have had/visited, I am assuming that many programmers have never placed a bet in their life.

:) :ThmbUp:

It's like that in every industry.

I spent 10 long years in an IT (never again!) position and I can tell you that programmers and Users rarely are on the same page. Some of the fights I witness were amazing. User- "I want a button here, a picture there, and a window here!" Programmer - "Um, no. I've already programmed that. This is what you are going to get and this is how it works."

In defense of some ADW's, I think that a few of them really did a good job of Thin Client programming. I'm especially impressed with TwinSpires Mobile. Amazing Thin Client being pushed to Cell Phone And Tablet Browsers.

JustRalph
04-26-2014, 09:11 PM
Absolutely sure. I've seen it mentioned over and over, as you described. But I can tell you it's not true............

I have used two ADW's in the last 14 yrs or so. Neither did it.





You absolutely sure? I got this from an IT guy at an ADW. They may not ALL work that way, but he assures me, his does.

The ADW sniffs the IP, and if it is in a non-valid state, online wagering is blocked. This is almost a direct quote from him. He is wrong? I assumed he knew his job. ;)

BettinBilly
04-26-2014, 09:19 PM
Absolutely sure. I've seen it mentioned over and over, as you described. But I can tell you it's not true............

I have used two ADW's in the last 14 yrs or so. Neither did it.

Well, it that is true, then OP, you have nothing to worry about, except, that the ADW's may have started IP sniffing recently. My discussion with an ADW IT person was very recent. It is possible that IP sniffing is new for ADW's, although it's old school for everyone else. So the IT guy may have been puffing smoke. Interesting.

I'll be traveling to an Illegal ADW State. I can log on and attempt to wager with the Big 3 that I have accounts with. I'll see what happens and report back. If wagering is blocked, then they are indeed sniffing now. Although if it's working for you, then it should work for everyone. One other possibility, the ONE guy I talked to may be correct. THAT ADW may be sniffing IP's.

lamboguy
04-26-2014, 09:24 PM
Ralph is 9 million % right on this. i have bet adw's on my laptop from places like Hawaii, Utah, New Jersey, Georgia and Virginia.

i haven't been out of the country though, so i can't comment on that.

BettinBilly
04-26-2014, 09:44 PM
I don't doubt him or you.

I'm anxious to see if the ADW from the IT guy I talked to will work when I'm in an Illegal state. If it does, then he was just puffing smoke at me.

Either way it's odd. I was in IT a while ago, and even back then we had the ability to sniff IP addresses and deny access. Well, it makes it easy for our OP! :) No VPN or Ghost Needed.

traynor
04-26-2014, 09:57 PM
The key issue (for US) is the state of residence, not the physical location of the client. I travel a LOT. I have no issues whatsoever with placing bets from states in which residents are not allowed to bet online (or are restricted in wagering in some other way).

That is not a nudge-nudge, wink-wink, no one will ever catch me. I checked it out in excruciating detail with the online betting service(s). I suggest you do the same.

The caveat (and the flood of nudge-nudge, wink-wink comments about how one will NEVER EVER be prosecuted) is that if you are resident of a state that restricts wagering online, you should not wager online. Or do what I did. Move.

BettinBilly
04-26-2014, 10:13 PM
You would think, Traynor, that the location of the Client would be of importance, since in essence, you are actually placing the bet in an illegal state. Granted, your home is somewhere else, but the actual activity of placing the bet is happening in a State that does not allow ADW. Yet, evidently, it does not seem to matter to some ADW's.

If the big three work everywhere, then that's that. Still anxious to try the one ADW that I was told did utilize IP sniffing.

Augenj
04-27-2014, 12:06 AM
You would think, Traynor, that the location of the Client would be of importance, since in essence, you are actually placing the bet in an illegal state. Granted, your home is somewhere else, but the actual activity of placing the bet is happening in a State that does not allow ADW. Yet, evidently, it does not seem to matter to some ADW's.

If the big three work everywhere, then that's that. Still anxious to try the one ADW that I was told did utilize IP sniffing.
I checked out Bet America and they claim that location matters, not your home state. In other words, if I live in Nevada and I travel to California (which I do) I can bet from there. I guess I mixed up two things here, ADWs and offshore. ADWs I can live with, I think. Offshore means something else where some states (Nevada) have laws against it and the Feds are ambiguous about interpreting and enforcing the Wire Act.

traynor
04-27-2014, 11:20 AM
I checked out Bet America and they claim that location matters, not your home state. In other words, if I live in Nevada and I travel to California (which I do) I can bet from there. I guess I mixed up two things here, ADWs and offshore. ADWs I can live with, I think. Offshore means something else where some states (Nevada) have laws against it and the Feds are ambiguous about interpreting and enforcing the Wire Act.

That is a fine point that may seem obscure, but is really not. A resident of State A cannot bet in State A. He or she can go to State B--where wagering is allowed--and wager as if resident in that state (with services that do not require US residency law compliance by clients). There is no real conflict in that scenario.

jrhollywood
04-29-2014, 04:55 PM
Absolutely sure. I've seen it mentioned over and over, as you described. But I can tell you it's not true............

I have used two ADW's in the last 14 yrs or so. Neither did it.

I can second this as well 100% for sure... my "friend" has been betting on an ADW site for years in an illegal state with never a problem. Set up his account while living in a legal state and had a driver license from it.

Robert Goren
04-29-2014, 05:38 PM
You still have the problem of where do they send your money to deal with.

davew
04-29-2014, 07:34 PM
I don't doubt him or you.

I'm anxious to see if the ADW from the IT guy I talked to will work when I'm in an Illegal state. If it does, then he was just puffing smoke at me.

Either way it's odd. I was in IT a while ago, and even back then we had the ability to sniff IP addresses and deny access. Well, it makes it easy for our OP! :) No VPN or Ghost Needed.

Just because they 'know' you are in an illegal state, does not mean they will necessarily deny service.

BettinBilly
04-29-2014, 08:30 PM
Just because they 'know' you are in an illegal state, does not mean they will necessarily deny service.

Obviously.

However, I was told explicitly that my wagers would be BLOCKED when their system sniffed an Illegal ADW State IP Address.

JohnnyU31
04-30-2014, 04:17 PM
I am guessing all ADWs have different programmers, platforms and restrictions.


From the betting platform on a few ADWs I have had/visited, I am assuming that many programmers have never placed a bet in their life.

You oughta check out AmWager.com. Their wager pad and tools are killer.

I've used BetAmerica, TwinSpires and XpressBet. No comparison to AmWager.

They claim their pad was designed by pro horse players (in conjunction, I assume, with IT guys :) ) I think it shows.

Robert Goren
04-30-2014, 04:24 PM
You oughta check out AmWager.com. Their wager pad and tools are killer.

I've used BetAmerica, TwinSpires and XpressBet. No comparison to AmWager.

They claim their pad was designed by pro horse players (in conjunction, I assume, with IT guys :) ) I think it shows.AmWager has along list of states it will not take residents from.

Vigorish
05-04-2014, 01:24 AM
The question is what kills rebate players faster: state governments or tracks and their insatiable appetite for more and more vigorish. With respect to which site has the best interface/wagering tools...it depends. I think AmWager has a lot of cool features that are useful for a serious handicapper. That being said, the competitive rebates come at a price. You do not get comprehensive statistics built into the platform, there is no free programming, no free hand histories, limited replay service, and a somewhat bare bones customer support service (an admittedly unfair comparison since AW is staffed by professionals with a depth of knowledge that makes the competition seem laughable). I personally use multiple ADW's because I get the best of both worlds.

If somebody is hellbent on circumventing the laws, they can pretty much play anywhere. The opportunity cost of masking your activities and/or finding a legal loophole is not realistic for 95% of players. If I was that motivated to play with a rebate (or play with a legal ADW for that matter), I'd pack up and move.

pandy
05-04-2014, 10:49 AM
For those who want to bet with ADWs from an "unapproved" state or even offshore, has anybody tried this method? Would it work or not? Just curious because I live in Nevada, an unapproved state. Not saying I'd do anything illegal, of course. ;)

CyberGhost VPN (http://www.cyberghostvpn.com/en_us)

I was thinking about trying something like this, but where to I have winnings mailed to? There must be a way around this ADW problem.

Augenj
05-04-2014, 11:39 AM
I was thinking about trying something like this, but where to I have winnings mailed to? There must be a way around this ADW problem.
As mentioned by others here, that's the rub. How do you give and take money without your name being associated with it.

Ted Craven
05-04-2014, 12:54 PM
As mentioned by others here, that's the rub. How do you give and take money without your name being associated with it.

There is a simple and straightforward answer to these last 2 questions, which, regrettably, I prefer not to state publicly.

Kindly PM me, if interested.

Ted

Clocker
05-04-2014, 02:53 PM
I was thinking about trying something like this, but where to I have winnings mailed to? There must be a way around this ADW problem.

I have never had a need to do it, so this is second hand. I believe that you can deposit to and withdraw from an on line account through a pre-paid credit card. One that I hear about often is the WalMart Money Card.

BettinBilly
05-04-2014, 03:36 PM
Gents;

I travel to Hawaii a lot for business, and wanted a solution as well, otherwise for a few months out of the year, I'd not be wagering.

Ted Craven lead me to one. Thanks Ted.

I highly suggest you PM him.

-Billy

highnote
05-14-2014, 10:08 AM
Try using TOR. It's free software that will allow you to use an IP from anywhere in the world. I have been able to log in to betting sites that block IP addresses from certain states or countries.

https://www.torproject.org/

"What is Tor?

Tor is free software and an open network that helps you defend against traffic analysis, a form of network surveillance that threatens personal freedom and privacy, confidential business activities and relationships, and state security."

"Why Anonymity Matters

Tor protects you by bouncing your communications around a distributed network of relays run by volunteers all around the world: it prevents somebody watching your Internet connection from learning what sites you visit, and it prevents the sites you visit from learning your physical location."

pandy
05-14-2014, 10:12 AM
Try using TOR. It's free software that will allow you to use an IP from anywhere in the world. I have been able to log in to betting sites that block IP addresses from certain states or countries.

https://www.torproject.org/

"What is Tor?

Tor is free software and an open network that helps you defend against traffic analysis, a form of network surveillance that threatens personal freedom and privacy, confidential business activities and relationships, and state security."

"Why Anonymity Matters

Tor protects you by bouncing your communications around a distributed network of relays run by volunteers all around the world: it prevents somebody watching your Internet connection from learning what sites you visit, and it prevents the sites you visit from learning your physical location."


Interesting, thanks for the tip.

tanner12oz
05-14-2014, 01:19 PM
You absolutely sure? I got this from an IT guy at an ADW. They may not ALL work that way, but he assures me, his does.

The ADW sniffs the IP, and if it is in a non-valid state, online wagering is blocked. This is almost a direct quote from him. He is wrong? I assumed he knew his job. ;)

what if you simply called the bets in vs going through the online site?

tanner12oz
05-14-2014, 01:21 PM
I would look into "bluebird" by American express...its marketed as a kinda work around traditional bank account with the ability to write checks and such