2014 NBA Playoff thread.

[Stillriledup]

Lets get it kick started boys!

Lets start off with some puppies in game 1s of their serieses.
I'm going to keep track of my WL record, lets see if i know what i'm talking about in the NBA.


Memphis +7
Atlanta +7.5
Charlotte +9.5
Portland +5.5
Brooklyn +2.5

[cj]

I don't think the Clippers are going to lose the series, but Stan Van Gundy had a great point yesterday. He said if the Clippers, particularly Chris Paul, would play basketball instead of playing to the referees, they would be much better off.

Paul's theatrics are so over the top, I think the playoff refs are going to be leery of calling fouls. Just play basketball Chris, you are good enough to win without trying to steal calls.

[Stillriledup]

I don't think the Clippers are going to lose the series, but Stan Van Gundy had a great point yesterday. He said if the Clippers, particularly Chris Paul, would play basketball instead of playing to the referees, they would be much better off.

Paul's theatrics are so over the top, I think the playoff refs are going to be leery of calling fouls. Just play basketball Chris, you are good enough to win without trying to steal calls.

I agree.

I also think that less calls are made in the postseason, so, they needed to adjust to that and it seems like they didnt.

They might be in trouble in this series because GS plays their eyeballs out when they play the Clippers, so they're really inherently a better team than a 6th seed, its personal with them, i would imagine every game is going to be tight.

If you're going to be a jumpshooting team, you sorta gotta make some shots, too many dry spells of missed shots and CP3 wasnt sharp, missing 2 FTs at the end and whatnut.

This might go 7, i think the Clippers have a lot of heart and maybe that loss was a wakeup call for them....time will tell.

[Stillriledup]

Lets get it kick started boys!

Lets start off with some puppies in game 1s of their serieses.
I'm going to keep track of my WL record, lets see if i know what i'm talking about in the NBA.


Memphis +7
Atlanta +7.5
Charlotte +9.5
Portland +5.5
Brooklyn +2.5

3-2 record, 3 underdog outright winners.

Lets take two tomorrow:

Memphis +7
GS +8

[cj]

3-2 record, 3 underdog outright winners.

Lets take two tomorrow:

Memphis +7
GS +8

Nice, but the outright winners doesn't matter if you aren't betting money line, right? Do you get a bonus?

[Stillriledup]

Nice, but the outright winners doesn't matter if you aren't betting money line, right? Do you get a bonus?

True, i'm just keeping track of spread winners.....and the only bonus i get is that i get to pat myself on the back for being a great NBA handicapper and to emphasize that these were "Easy winners" . ;)

Hopefully my huge throng of fans and followers cashed in on some Money Lines. :D

[lansdale]

Don't think so - but last night's game pointed up some of the things that could lead to an upset. Memphis did the kind of things last night that I'm always hoping the Spurs will do vs. OKC but don't - i.e. avoid turnovers, and shut down the role players. Much of this is systemic with OKC - they don't have any kind of half-court game or strategy that could create open shots for role players that can't easily get their own shots. Much of their offense is premised on the ability to score off turnovers. If I look back, I can't think of any team that's won the title without the ability to play in the half-court - if OKC can do it, it would be a tribute to the extraordinary talents of KD and WB.

Also - maybe a problem not so easy to solve - Westbrook's stamina. Although he's tremendous for much of these games, it's clear he's running out of gas in the fourth quarter - if he had been his usual self in last night's OT, OKC would likely have won. I don't know if the answer is to give R. Jackson more minutes in the middle of the game, saving WB for the 4Q, but I think, in what now looks like a tough, physical series vs. an opponent that is clearly more a three or four seed than a seven, this is going to be a key issue.

Cheers

lansdale

[cj]

This was never going to be an easy series. Just like I wasn't worried much about the Clippers, I'm not to worried about the Thunder. I would be much happier if we had a better coach, I'll say that much. That would address a lot of the things you mention.

[PressThePace]

This was never going to be an easy series. Just like I wasn't worried much about the Clippers, I'm not to worried about the Thunder. I would be much happier if we had a better coach, I'll say that much. That would address a lot of the things you mention.

Right on again Craig.

OKC's problems are predicated on a couple of things in my opinion:

(1) The team has outgrown Brooks. His personality, at least as a coach, doesn't lend itself to having control of what happens on the floor. That's a major problem when Russell Westbrook is playing for you(and KD for that matter). But hey, he's a great cheerleader!

(2) The Thunder have very few secondary options within their offensive scheme in the half court.. Going on four years now, we've seen teams in the playoffs deny the initial entry to Durant taking lots of time off of the shot clock, and then Durant finally just points at Westbrook and says go! Russell gets a lot of unfair criticism for this fact. It falls on Brooks. OKC is stockpiled with talent. They're capable of so much more.

[lansdale]

This was never going to be an easy series. Just like I wasn't worried much about the Clippers, I'm not to worried about the Thunder. I would be much happier if we had a better coach, I'll say that much. That would address a lot of the things you mention.

Surprised you agree about Brooks, though maybe missed you saying it before. Ibaka looking good as third scorer - we'll see if he can continue in Memphis.

I know this unbelievable shot meant nothing to Durant, given the loss, but it is an awe-inspiring display of his gyroscopic body control.


http://www.nba.com/video/channels/playoffs/2014/04/22/0041300152-mem-okc-durant-and-one.nba/?ls=iref:nbahppt

[cj]

Surprised you agree about Brooks, though maybe missed you saying it before. Ibaka looking good as third scorer - we'll see if he can continue in Memphis.

I know this unbelievable shot meant nothing to Durant, given the loss, but it is an awe-inspiring display of his gyroscopic body control.


http://www.nba.com/video/channels/playoffs/2014/04/22/0041300152-mem-okc-durant-and-one.nba/?ls=iref:nbahppt

I've said for a while I don't think Brooks is the guy to take them all the way. He made great adjustments to beat the Spurs a few years ago, then totally made none against the Heat. The Thunder actually outscored Miami when Perkins didn't play, but Brooks stubbornly stuck to playing him too much against a team where he had no role.

Brooks was great for developing a young, raw team into a very good team. But he is a terrible Xs and Os guy, and he hasn't gotten much better over the years.

[lansdale]

I've said for a while I don't think Brooks is the guy to take them all the way. He made great adjustments to beat the Spurs a few years ago, then totally made none against the Heat. The Thunder actually outscored Miami when Perkins didn't play, but Brooks stubbornly stuck to playing him too much against a team where he had no role.

Brooks was great for developing a young, raw team into a very good team. But he is a terrible Xs and Os guy, and he hasn't gotten much better over the years.

Agree re Brooks, and this view of him seems to be widely held. Don't like to criticize him because he seems like a good guy, but still limited in the way you describe. Too bad the Knicks got Steve Kerr because I think he might have been a good choice. I've heard rumors that Presti has been thinking about Stan van Gundy and Rick Adelman as possible replacements, neither of which seem like a good fit to me. They deserve somebody better.

[cj]

Agree re Brooks, and this view of him seems to be widely held. Don't like to criticize him because he seems like a good guy, but still limited in the way you describe. Too bad the Knicks got Steve Kerr because I think he might have been a good choice. I've heard rumors that Presti has been thinking about Stan van Gundy and Rick Adelman as possible replacements, neither of which seem like a good fit to me. They deserve somebody better.

Yeah, I'd have to think about it. I'm going to wait and see how this year goes. They played a terrible game, Memphis played great, and it still went to overtime. The Thunder could very well win the title this year. I'm not going to give up after one loss. I could very well be wrong about Brooks, but I've been saying this for nearly three years now. I hope I am wrong of course!

[cj]

Anybody else sick of this replay crap?

Why is an out of bounds with 1:59 left more important than one with 2:01 left? If you can fix who hit the ball out, why can't you fix when a blatant foul is missed on the same play?

I'd be all for going to a challenge system where a coach can challenge anything. But it would be tough because there is no consistency from game to game, or ref to ref.

Adam Silver really needs to get a better system in place for developing officials. These daily reports from the NBA don't accomplish anything, just get the damn calls right or get somebody that will.

[Stillriledup]

Anybody else sick of this replay crap?

Why is an out of bounds with 1:59 left more important than one with 2:01 left? If you can fix who hit the ball out, why can't you fix when a blatant foul is missed on the same play?

I'd be all for going to a challenge system where a coach can challenge anything. But it would be tough because there is no consistency from game to game, or ref to ref.

Adam Silver really needs to get a better system in place for developing officials. These daily reports from the NBA don't accomplish anything, just get the damn calls right or get somebody that will.

Might have cost Clippers game 1 vs GS, CP3 lost a ball out of bounds and the league came out after the fact and said he was fouled and should have gotten 2 shots. This is something they could have looked at and it might have cost LAC the game.

[cj]

Might have cost Clippers game 1 vs GS, CP3 lost a ball out of bounds and the league came out after the fact and said he was fouled and should have gotten 2 shots. This is something they could have looked at and it might have cost LAC the game.

Calls get missed all the time, so it is hard to blame a game on one call. Probably could find a bunch missed on both sides.

Bottom line is these guy just have to get better. Officiating has been the most talked about thing that I have seen in the playoffs. There is just no consistency. Seems to me if you put two hands on a guy, that is supposed to be a foul...but sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. I'm tired of the subjective crap. Call the fouls and let the players adjust.

[Stillriledup]

Calls get missed all the time, so it is hard to blame a game on one call. Probably could find a bunch missed on both sides.

Bottom line is these guy just have to get better. Officiating has been the most talked about thing that I have seen in the playoffs. There is just no consistency. Seems to me if you put two hands on a guy, that is supposed to be a foul...but sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. I'm tired of the subjective crap. Call the fouls and let the players adjust.

The problem is that since so many calls could go either way (block-charge, etc) that if the refs don't "call it evenly" it appears that the game is fixed and the NBA is trying to get one team to advance. Kevin Durant should have been called for a charge late in that game, i think it was under 18 seconds left, it was a 100% charge, and they just ignored it...so, when you see stuff like that, people say "hmmm, they want OKC to win".

So i think if the calls don't seem to be fair, people are very skeptical that this sport is on the up and up, we have all read the Tim Donaghy stuff, the guy was not going to lie about what he knew, he was under oath, i believe what he said, he didnt want to go to jail for longer, even though the NBA calls him a "rogue ref" i still havent forgotten what he said about some refs who are still working in the league.

[Stillriledup]

3-2 record, 3 underdog outright winners.

Lets take two tomorrow:

Memphis +7
GS +8

Current Record 4-3 including 4 outright Dog winners.

Tonights selection, The Cats +10 at Miami.

GL

[Stillriledup]

Current Record 4-3 including 4 outright Dog winners.

Tonights selection, The Cats +10 at Miami.

GL

Current record now at 5-3 including 4 outright Dog winners.

[lansdale]

Caught second half of Mavs blowout vs. Spurs last night - looked like they were taking a page out of OKC playbook. Going with small ball rather than Dirk in the post, they Dallas guards easily got to the rack especially vs. the slower Belinelli and aging Ginobli (although the latter at least scored). The Spurs also posted 24 turnovers - a high for the season - leading to 31 points for the Mavs, just about the total points off turnovers that OKC ran up in their last meeting.

I don't think this is a temporary thing. Spurs might have to sit Belinelli more - although a great shooter, he doesn't seem to have the speed to compete with quicker guards at this level, nor does Ginobli at this stage of his career. Certainly will hurt them vs. the much quicker Rockets and OKC, assuming they will be likely opponents. But hey, they have to get out of this series first.

[lansdale]

Anybody else sick of this replay crap?

Why is an out of bounds with 1:59 left more important than one with 2:01 left? If you can fix who hit the ball out, why can't you fix when a blatant foul is missed on the same play?

I'd be all for going to a challenge system where a coach can challenge anything. But it would be tough because there is no consistency from game to game, or ref to ref.

Adam Silver really needs to get a better system in place for developing officials. These daily reports from the NBA don't accomplish anything, just get the damn calls right or get somebody that will.

I think every fan feels the same frustration, but I don't know what the answer is for a game so fast and complex. As we know, inconsistency is the norm and calls inevitably will be missed. As far the time rules, not sure what you mean - AFAIK only difference in replay rules for last 2 minutes is that the replay occurs immediately after a made shot rather than at the next timeout.

[lansdale]

Caught second half of Mavs blowout vs. Spurs last night - looked like they were taking a page out of OKC playbook. Going with small ball rather than Dirk in the post, they Dallas guards easily got to the rack especially vs. the slower Belinelli and aging Ginobli (although the latter at least scored). The Spurs also posted 24 turnovers - a high for the season - leading to 31 points for the Mavs, just about the total points off turnovers that OKC ran up in their last meeting.

I don't think this is a temporary thing. Spurs might have to sit Belinelli more - although a great shooter, he doesn't seem to have the speed to compete with quicker guards at this level, nor does Ginobli at this stage of his career. Certainly will hurt them vs. the much quicker Rockets and OKC, assuming they will be likely opponents. But hey, they have to get out of this series first.

Just to correct - wrote this before checking on the score of last night's Portland/Houston game. Looks like Harden & Co. are done, barring a miracle.

[Poindexter]

Just a heads up I only watch the playoffs these days so I have no knowledge about what transpired during the season. Interesting playoffs so far.The west is more balanced than it has been in a very long time. My hometown clippers are looking to me like the best at this point. Weak game 1, but Griffin in big foul trouble throughout. Love the way they bounced back in game 2. I love this Golden State team as well, so not sure what happens if game 3, but I do think Clips win series and get to the finals. Portland/Houston and Washington/Chicago are interesting, as they are 2 series that were perceived to be closely matched, but the dog won the first 2 on the road. This is a rarity in the NBA. What is interesting is that both teams that are up 2-0 are coming home as only 3 point favorites. That is a pretty short line. My belief is that the going down 0-2 at home emotionally destroys most teams, coupled with an extreme confidence boost for the team up 2-0. You are going to have these teams going home to roaring crowds(especially Portland). Chicago might have the heart to overcome(not sure they have the ability, they look pretty awful offensively), Houston, I do not think they even have the heart. I sort of like them both to go up 3-0. OKC, I think is probably number 2 in west in my book. They just appear a lot more talented than Memphis to me and I assume they should bounce back and win game 3. SA looking pretty darn old. They looked suspect last year against GS a little bit before righting the ship, but nothing like last night. West much tougher this year I am not even sure they bounce back to get by Dallas at this point. In the East, I think Indiana, should be fine for the time being, now that they came up with the big win. Should make short work of Atlanta the rest of the series. Later on in the playoffs we will see how suspect their confidence is(maybe even next round). Not very familiar with Toronto, but Brooklyn looks like the better team to me. Toronto just as easily could be down 2-0 at this point. Miami/Charlotte, I could care less about. Just my initial thoughts if anybody cares.

[cj]

I think every fan feels the same frustration, but I don't know what the answer is for a game so fast and complex. As we know, inconsistency is the norm and calls inevitably will be missed. As far the time rules, not sure what you mean - AFAIK only difference in replay rules for last 2 minutes is that the replay occurs immediately after a made shot rather than at the next timeout.

I meant out of bounds calls with the time, they are only reviewed in the last two minutes. A possession is a possession, shouldn't matter when it is. They are all important.

[Stillriledup]

Just a heads up I only watch the playoffs these days so I have no knowledge about what transpired during the season. Interesting playoffs so far.The west is more balanced than it has been in a very long time. My hometown clippers are looking to me like the best at this point. Weak game 1, but Griffin in big foul trouble throughout. Love the way they bounced back in game 2. I love this Golden State team as well, so not sure what happens if game 3, but I do think Clips win series and get to the finals. Portland/Houston and Washington/Chicago are interesting, as they are 2 series that were perceived to be closely matched, but the dog won the first 2 on the road. This is a rarity in the NBA. What is interesting is that both teams that are up 2-0 are coming home as only 3 point favorites. That is a pretty short line. My belief is that the going down 0-2 at home emotionally destroys most teams, coupled with an extreme confidence boost for the team up 2-0. You are going to have these teams going home to roaring crowds(especially Portland). Chicago might have the heart to overcome(not sure they have the ability, they look pretty awful offensively), Houston, I do not think they even have the heart. I sort of like them both to go up 3-0. OKC, I think is probably number 2 in west in my book. They just appear a lot more talented than Memphis to me and I assume they should bounce back and win game 3. SA looking pretty darn old. They looked suspect last year against GS a little bit before righting the ship, but nothing like last night. West much tougher this year I am not even sure they bounce back to get by Dallas at this point. In the East, I think Indiana, should be fine for the time being, now that they came up with the big win. Should make short work of Atlanta the rest of the series. Later on in the playoffs we will see how suspect their confidence is(maybe even next round). Not very familiar with Toronto, but Brooklyn looks like the better team to me. Toronto just as easily could be down 2-0 at this point. Miami/Charlotte, I could care less about. Just my initial thoughts if anybody cares.

Houston might have the heart, they don't have the LEADERSHIP. I know that i was always worried (for them) about that. Great players, but not leaders and its shown, they look fancy when there's no pressure, but in the big games, they choke it away, Portland had a great start to their season and then "fizzled out" so no real reason for Houston to be losing to these guys, but that leadership thing is their achilles at the moment.

LAC's win the other night was probably the most impressive win of any team so far this season, reg season or playoffs. Question is can they duplicate it and can they win road games, if they advance, they're going to eventually have to play on the road (unless somehow OKC and SA both get knocked out) so they better show the same talent in road games, i think they have it in them to not get rattled, they just have to show it.

I don't think Indiana can make "short work" of anyone, i'd be surprised if they won that series, i guess anything is possible, but they seem very fragile mentally and Atl is good enough to do it.

I think the NBA wants BKlyn to advance, they will get much better ratings is Brooklyn advances than if Toronto advances...so, lets watch the officiating and see if Tor is getting the short end of the stick, i havent seen any games in that series so far, so i can't comment on who's better.

Miami is struggling, i think they actually stink and even though they're up 2-0 to the Cats, that series could go 7, I'd be surprised if Miami made it past the 2nd round, no matter who they play.

OKC v Memphis....good series, Memphis is really tough mentally and they play hard and are a tough out, so that series should go down to 6 or 7 games too, this is a great test for OKC, if they can get past Memphis it will toughen them up for the next series, you can't ever get hurt by winning a series where the other team makes you battle for every possession.

[Stillriledup]

Current record now at 5-3 including 4 outright Dog winners.

Two picks tonight.

Atl +2.5
LAC -3

GL.

[cj]

Perfect example tonight...Teague steps out of bounds and hits a three, but 2:10 left so they can't overturn it. They actually looked to see if it was a three.

How can a ref not see a guy dribbling the ball step out of bounds? Unbelievable.

[Stillriledup]

Two picks tonight.

Atl +2.5
LAC -3

GL.

6-3

Another outright dog winner.

[Stillriledup]

Two picks tonight.

Atl +2.5
LAC -3

GL.

6-4 took tough beat on the right side with LAC when GS didnt foul with 2 seconds left in game after Curry missed his shot, they just stood around like chooches and cost me a game i should have won.

[cj]

More brutal officiating. Probably as obvious a travel as you will see on Griffin's big late shot, how was that missed? It was also a charge on Griffin, but Green was called for a block instead.

I can live with the block/charge, but the travel was ridiculous. There is no way three officials should all miss that call.

[cj]

Yeah, I'd have to think about it. I'm going to wait and see how this year goes. They played a terrible game, Memphis played great, and it still went to overtime. The Thunder could very well win the title this year. I'm not going to give up after one loss. I could very well be wrong about Brooks, but I've been saying this for nearly three years now. I hope I am wrong of course!

Brooks changed up nothing, and the result was the same. Shocking I know. How in the world can Steven Adams and Jeremy Lamb, especially Adams, not play at all? The guy is killing us. Our big advantage against Memphis is athleticism, so we play guys like Butler, Fisher, and Perkins that have none. I love Nick Collision, but he is too small for Memphis, yet Brooks keeps sending him out there while Adams sits.

[Robert Fischer]

Anybody else sick of this replay crap?

It's funny because the refereeing style has been to "shape" the call to get the right equivalent situation(rather than try to be 100% technically accurate).

A defender reaches in and fouls the ball-handler.
The ref doesn't want to call that foul, but then it turns out that it was enough contact for the ball to go out of bounds.
Now the ref says "Out of bounds off the defender!, Offense ball!" - And all is right in the world.

With Replay, they now review that out-of-bounds call, and say "hey, you know what?, the point guard actually touched it last!" , thus rewarding the defense for the harassing foul, and making a mess of the Referee's system of justice.

[lansdale]

Brooks changed up nothing, and the result was the same. Shocking I know. How in the world can Steven Adams and Jeremy Lamb, especially Adams, not play at all? The guy is killing us. Our big advantage against Memphis is athleticism, so we play guys like Butler, Fisher, and Perkins that have none. I love Nick Collision, but he is too small for Memphis, yet Brooks keeps sending him out there while Adams sits.

I don't think they have a choice now, Brooks has got to realize that he's got to take some of the pressure off KD and WB. OKC's key problem on offense is that the 6'4" Tony Allen has KD on virtual lockdown - so much so that he seems to have gotten into his head - KD's missing wide-open looks.

Here's my advice to Brooks (since I'm sure he reads this page!): have Perk and Thabo set staggered baseline screens (since they're not doing much else on offense), to get R. Jackson and Lamb open in the corner. RJ is 45% and JL, 35% from the corner. The Spurs killed Miami with this simple set to get Danny Green open in last year's finals.

My advice to WB: stop looking off open teammates while taking dubious shots. That last minute 26-ft. heave with Ibaka wide-open under the hoop is exactly what I mean.

Re Adams - he picked up 5 fouls in 19 minutes in Game 1 - do you really want be sending them to the line that much? Re Collison, I think he's doing an excellent job in holding Z-Bo to 37% shooting (although 20 ppg.). BTW, both of these guys are the same size - 6'9"/250.

However much these games must be skyrocketing your blood pressure, they're great games for the average NBA fan. Think OKC win the next and series will go down to the wire.

[banacek]

I think the NBA wants BKlyn to advance, they will get much better ratings is Brooklyn advances than if Toronto advances...so, lets watch the officiating and see if Tor is getting the short end of the stick, i havent seen any games in that series so far, so i can't comment on who's better.

This could be. In game 1 Brooklyn had ZERO fouls in the fourth quarter. Has that ever happened in a playoff game before?

[Stillriledup]

More brutal officiating. Probably as obvious a travel as you will see on Griffin's big late shot, how was that missed? It was also a charge on Griffin, but Green was called for a block instead.

I can live with the block/charge, but the travel was ridiculous. There is no way three officials should all miss that call.

It thought it was a block, but maybe that's just me?

What about CP3s 3 pt shot attempt late in the game where he wasnt given 3 FTs? He was in the act of shooting and the ball rimmed in and out. If that shot goes in, he gets an extra FT to make it a 4 pt play....so, why not 3 fts?

[Stillriledup]

This could be. In game 1 Brooklyn had ZERO fouls in the fourth quarter. Has that ever happened in a playoff game before?

http://nesn.com/2014/04/tim-donaghy-nba-wants-brooklyn-nets-to-face-lebron-james-miami-heat/

[cj]

It thought it was a block, but maybe that's just me?

What about CP3s 3 pt shot attempt late in the game where he wasnt given 3 FTs? He was in the act of shooting and the ball rimmed in and out. If that shot goes in, he gets an extra FT to make it a 4 pt play....so, why not 3 fts?

You are right, that should have been a shooting foul. They said it wasn't in the act so the basket wouldn't have counted, but it clearly should have.

[cj]

I don't ever remember a first round like this. The games are just unbelievable.

[Stillriledup]

I don't ever remember a first round like this. The games are just unbelievable.

Amazing win for your boys, congrats...they were in HUGE trouble down 5 with a minute and change to go, gutty effort.

[lansdale]

I don't ever remember a first round like this. The games are just unbelievable.

Amazing breakout game for R. Jackson last night - had to miss the second half, but it sounds like he took over and maybe saved Brooks' job. I've always thought that OKC would be better with someone that was more a 'true point' at that position and WB at the two. Wondering if RJ should be that guy.

As you say, so many close games in the west that I'm beginning to wonder if the refs are orchestrating this to jack up ratings. OTOH, the west does have most of the best teams in the league and they are tightly bunched, talentwise.
Ready for a fourth OT game?

[cj]

Amazing breakout game for R. Jackson last night - had to miss the second half, but it sounds like he took over and maybe saved Brooks' job. I've always thought that OKC would be better with someone that was more a 'true point' at that position and WB at the two. Wondering if RJ should be that guy.

As you say, so many close games in the west that I'm beginning to wonder if the refs are orchestrating this to jack up ratings. OTOH, the west does have most of the best teams in the league and they are tightly bunched, talentwise.
Ready for a fourth OT game?

Reggie and Russ play the same way. They are both tweeners, not really 1s, not really 2s. Neither one is a natural shooter and both are good at getting to the rim. Obviously Westbrook is the much better athlete, but Jackson finishes better around the hole.

Brooks realized, at least for one night, you can't play Perk-Bo as I call them against a good defense. I'm still tired of him playing Fisher and Butler, two old slow guys, in the "small" lineup. Small is fine, but small and slow is not.

[maddog42]

I don't ever remember a first round like this. The games are just unbelievable.

There never has been a series like this. First time ever for 3 consecutive OT
games.

[Stillriledup]

Anyone think the Clippers are "done" because of all this Sterling stuff?

They might be finished, they might be mailing in the season.

[cj]

Anyone think the Clippers are "done" because of all this Sterling stuff?

They might be finished, they might be mailing in the season.

It probably had an effect yesterday, but I think they will get past it, maybe even use it as a rallying point. I sure hope so, those guys don't deserve this.

[Valuist]

Needed OT to go over but once again, a game officiated by Eric Lewis goes over the total. 47-21 over this year, 43-29 over last year. That's 90 overs and 50 unders the past 2 years for a crisp 64%.

[Valuist]

Reggie and Russ play the same way. They are both tweeners, not really 1s, not really 2s. Neither one is a natural shooter and both are good at getting to the rim. Obviously Westbrook is the much better athlete, but Jackson finishes better around the hole.

Brooks realized, at least for one night, you can't play Perk-Bo as I call them against a good defense. I'm still tired of him playing Fisher and Butler, two old slow guys, in the "small" lineup. Small is fine, but small and slow is not.

Jackson really did a great job bailing out the Thunder. OK-C overcame a bad shooting night by both Durant and Westbrook.

Going back to the Thursday game, I think Brooks or somebody needs to tell Westbrook that its Durant's team; not his. And when the game is on the line, I want the ball in the hands of the 2nd best player on the planet.

[cj]

Jackson really did a great job bailing out the Thunder. OK-C overcame a bad shooting night by both Durant and Westbrook.

Going back to the Thursday game, I think Brooks or somebody needs to tell Westbrook that its Durant's team; not his. And when the game is on the line, I want the ball in the hands of the 2nd best player on the planet.


Durant is far from the best at freeing himself to get the ball. Trying to force it to him late in games this series has resulted in several turnovers.

[ronsmac]

This is the best first round that I can recall in a long time. I'm definitely pulling for LeBron to get that third ring.The way some of these series are going so far, the path could become a lot easier.

[Stillriledup]

This is the best first round that I can recall in a long time. I'm definitely pulling for LeBron to get that third ring.The way some of these series are going so far, the path could become a lot easier.

I'd be shocked if Miami won the title again, i think they stink to be honest with you, but the entire East stinks, its up for grabs, maybe the Raptors or Wiz can go to the finals, no proof that one of those teams isnt the best in the east at the moment.

[Valuist]

I was saying 2 months ago that Indiana is no good. They are the worst number 1 seed I have ever seen.

[Stillriledup]

I was saying 2 months ago that Indiana is no good. They are the worst number 1 seed I have ever seen.

Its horrendous basketball, Atl isnt much better, they lost 2 times already to these guys.

These lower seeds in the west, Memphis, Dallas, the 7 and 8 seeds wouldnt even come close to losing a game to Indy, those would be 4 game sweeps...west just much stronger, its going to be a shocking upset if the eastern team wins the title this year.

[magwell]

I'd be shocked if Miami won the title again, i think they stink to be honest with you, but the entire East stinks, its up for grabs, maybe the Raptors or Wiz can go to the finals, no proof that one of those teams isnt the best in the east at the moment.You cant be serious with your statements that the Heat stinks, they may not not 3 peet but who will stop them if they stay sound ? "come on man".......;)

[lansdale]

I can see that there's still a lot of speculation on the problems of the OKC offense, both here and in the media. I think this has become somewhat overblown, since the team has obviously not done badly with this type of improvised offense. And I take cj's point that WB and RJ do have similar playing styles - neither are true points. I still believe that RJ has better hoops IQ and is a better decision maker under pressure, although obviously without the same level of superstar skill as WB. Re Durant, agree that he can't run the offense for the reason cj cites. Although he handles the ball well for a player of his size, he's still not Bird or Magic (who is?) and his inability to post is a further limitation.

I think the reason this offense is puzzling for many NBA fans is that there has never been one like it at this level of elite skill, and they're wondering if OKC can ride it to the title. We're about to find out.

Re Spurs, the curtailed play of Tony Parker puts a serious question mark on their chances to win it all. Although he played well the first game vs. Mavs, he's disappeared in the second halves of the last three games. Either Pop is trying to conserve his energy by not playing him or he's really too fatigued or injured to play at his usual level - after last night's game, he hobbled off the court. Either way, if he can't perform at superstar level, the Spurs have no shot vs. OKC or Miami.

[Valuist]

I think the reason this offense is puzzling for many NBA fans is that there has never been one like it at this level of elite skill, and they're wondering if OKC can ride it to the title. We're about to find out.

Either way, if he can't perform at superstar level, the Spurs have no shot vs. OKC or Miami.

But what about the Thunder team with Durant, Westbrook and James Harden? Harden is an elite scorer; 5th in the league this past season in PPG. Not much of a defender, however. Jackson is a solid player, and came up huge the other night. But he isn't an "elite" scorer like Harden.

I would NEVER count the Spurs out. Not as long as Pop is there. Can they win it all if Parker is not at a superstar level? Wouldn't surprise me if they did.

[thaskalos]

Its horrendous basketball, Atl isnt much better, they lost 2 times already to these guys.

These lower seeds in the west, Memphis, Dallas, the 7 and 8 seeds wouldnt even come close to losing a game to Indy, those would be 4 game sweeps...west just much stronger, its going to be a shocking upset if the eastern team wins the title this year.
You are not being fair to Atlanta...IMO. Losing twice to Indiana isn't the disgrace that you make it sound like. Indiana, in my opinion, isn't "horrible", as much as they are maddeningly inconsistent. They had beaten both Ok.C. and Miami -- on April 13 and March 26 respectively -- while again losing to Atlanta at home on April the 6th, by 19 points...as an 8-point favorite.

Did Atlanta have to sweep in order for them to get some respect from you?

PS -- To show you how inconsistent Indiana is...they are listed as 1.5 point favorites for Thursday's game in Atlanta.

[PressThePace]

Durant is far from the best at freeing himself to get the ball. Trying to force it to him late in games this series has resulted in several turnovers.

His coach could help him out with this. OKC is so vanilla with their entries into the offense. I've wondered privately if it has anything to do with Ibaka. CJ, you've watched this team since their inception. What do you think? The Thunder players are constantly on Serge's ass for different things. I can't help but think that they have to keep it simple for a reason.

Or maybe it's really because Brooks has reached a ceiling...I'll lean toward that sentiment now that I think about it :D

[lansdale]

But what about the Thunder team with Durant, Westbrook and James Harden? Harden is an elite scorer; 5th in the league this past season in PPG. Not much of a defender, however. Jackson is a solid player, and came up huge the other night. But he isn't an "elite" scorer like Harden.

I would NEVER count the Spurs out. Not as long as Pop is there. Can they win it all if Parker is not at a superstar level? Wouldn't surprise me if they did.

I probably should have been clearer, but part of my point was that team didn't win it either. And it seems to me that the 2012 team, although largely playing a 'free' style, was also a different, and in some ways, better team than this one, although I know cj disagrees. My take - in 2012, they had Harden, as you point out, as third scorer, but also a slightly younger and more effective Fisher, who was playing more minutes, scoring more, and giving the team more direction on the floor while he was in.

I'm not saying this team can't win it - I'm just saying this would be the first team (to my knowledge) to win a title without any post presence or much of a half-court game. As I said, it would be a tribute to the magnitude of the talent of the players if they can.

Re Spurs - as I said, I'm not sure whether Pop is holding TP out of games to save him or he really is hampered in some way. I do think that it would be very difficult for them to go all the way if he's incapable of playing at a level similar to last year's.

It seems to me that it's very rare for any team to win the title without a superstar/HOF player (and usually two) playing near his/their peak. There's only one team I can think of in recent years who's done so without one: the 2004 Pistons. They were, in many ways, similar to the current Spurs - a very talented team of veteran players who executed well, coached by a legend: Larry Brown. So, I realize it's not impossible. Also, as I guess I've made clear, I am a Spurs fan and would like to see the Big Three get at least one more shot at a title before they go. And if TP is okay, I still make them favorites to win it.

[Stillriledup]

You cant be serious with your statements that the Heat stinks, they may not not 3 peet but who will stop them if they stay sound ? "come on man".......;)

I go on what i see with my eyes, how they play in the games and whatnut. Reputation and recent past performances arent something i consider.

[Stillriledup]

You are not being fair to Atlanta...IMO. Losing twice to Indiana isn't the disgrace that you make it sound like. Indiana, in my opinion, isn't "horrible", as much as they are maddeningly inconsistent. They had beaten both Ok.C. and Miami -- on April 13 and March 26 respectively -- while again losing to Atlanta at home on April the 6th, by 19 points...as an 8-point favorite.

Did Atlanta have to sweep in order for them to get some respect from you?

PS -- To show you how inconsistent Indiana is...they are listed as 1.5 point favorites for Thursday's game in Atlanta.

They've lost my respect down the stretch in the regular season....and i havent seen anything from them in the playoffs to make me think anything other than these guys are a bunch of frauds and jokers.

[cj]

His coach could help him out with this. OKC is so vanilla with their entries into the offense. I've wondered privately if it has anything to do with Ibaka. CJ, you've watched this team since their inception. What do you think? The Thunder players are constantly on Serge's ass for different things. I can't help but think that they have to keep it simple for a reason.

Or maybe it's really because Brooks has reached a ceiling...I'll lean toward that sentiment now that I think about it :D

Serge is a super smart guy, I really don't think he is the problem. I don't think Brooks gets 100% of the team he has. That said, he is also starting two offensive near zeroes in Perkins and Thabo. That, more than anything else, is why you have to keep it simple. Perkins can't even catch a ball half the time.

[magwell]

I go on what i see with my eyes, how they play in the games and whatnut. Reputation and recent past performances arent something i consider.OK , then who is the team your eyes tell you is better the the Heat ?

[Stillriledup]

OK , then who is the team your eyes tell you is better the the Heat ?

The top 8 in the west all would beat the heat in a 7 game series, including Memphis and Dallas.

So, there's 8 right there without even thinking too hard about it.

[magwell]

The top 8 in the west all would beat the heat in a 7 game series, including Memphis and Dallas.

So, there's 8 right there without even thinking too hard about it. Time to get those eyes checked my man.........:rolleyes:

[thaskalos]

The Thunder are doing an Indiana impersonation tonight.

[thaskalos]

JESUS...they were waiting for me to comment so they could wake up. :eek:

[cj]

JESUS...they were waiting for me to comment so they could wake up. :eek:

I've thought for a while Brooks has been over his head, and I think it is time. I won't count OKC out yet because they play hard and come back a lot, but he really is not the guy for them any longer. 2009, sure, but not now.

[Stillriledup]

OK , then who is the team your eyes tell you is better the the Heat ?

You think the Heat would beat Memphis in a 7 game series? Heat vs Memphis, the 7 seed, who you got?

[Stillriledup]

I've thought for a while Brooks has been over his head, and I think it is time. I won't count OKC out yet because they play hard and come back a lot, but he really is not the guy for them any longer. 2009, sure, but not now.

I felt the same way watching VDN coaching up the Clippers vs Memphis in recent years playoffs, Memphis is an incredibly smart team, they do the little things so well and they're a fundamentally sound team, so they are the team you get exposed against if your coaching isnt really good. I don't know OKC well enough to know if your coach sucks or not, but i'll take your word for it that he's not all that great.

[Valuist]

Whoever comes out of this Memphis-OK City series is in trouble. 4 straight OT playoff games is a LOT of additional stress and drain on energy reserves.

I haven't seen a line but I'm going UNDER in game 6. No way we get a 5th OT game and the stats have been pumped up due to all the extra minutes played.

I guess a similar case could be made in the Portland-Houston series, but I don't consider either of those teams serious contenders.

[Valuist]

Just hoping Indiana can survive to get to round 2 so we can bet against them several more games.

[PressThePace]

I've thought for a while Brooks has been over his head, and I think it is time. I won't count OKC out yet because they play hard and come back a lot, but he really is not the guy for them any longer. 2009, sure, but not now.

I'm glad everyone is finally seeing what I saw a couple of years ago.

I've been a HS basketball coach for almost 20 years now, which certainly doesn't qualify me for an NBA coaching job, but I would like to think I know a thing or two about the game and it's subtleties. I like Brooks, I really do. He's instilled things into the team that have helped the them grow to what they are today. But with that said, he has become like the parent that you eventually quit listening to. I think his players love him, but I don't think the Rah-Rah, you-can-do-this approach is resonating anymore. It's just my opinion, but I believe they need a stronger voice....to hold them accountable...to make Westbrook accountable every time he loses his mind and tries to play 1 on 5....to hold Durant accountable when he falls asleep on the backside and gives up an easy cut to the basket or a follow-up rebound or tip and even for being sloppy coming off of screens. It's clear that Brooks has emphasized some needed concepts inherent to competing. However, it's also clear that players are making the same mistakes time and time again without a consequence. How much "teaching" is really going on? It's one thing to trust your team (and Brooks loves to talk about "trusting" Durant's end of game decisions), but there needs to be some type of accountability at the end of the day.

[Canarsie]

I've thought for a while Brooks has been over his head, and I think it is time. I won't count OKC out yet because they play hard and come back a lot, but he really is not the guy for them any longer. 2009, sure, but not now.


This is the perfect spot for Jeff Van Gundy's return to the coaching ranks. He is one guy who will make sure the ball goes through Durant.

[lansdale]

Came across this analysis of Clips/OKC by Zach Lowe - for me, the best writer on the NBA in the country. Anybody who's gotten sick of the tired cliché-mongering on ESPN etc., about who's 'tougher', 'who wants it more', and who's 'got something to prove' might be grateful for the take of somebody who actually seems to know something about the game.

I don't agree that OKC is going to have it as tough vs. Clips as his piece suggests, especially given Paul's injuries. As he rightly points out, they have nobody who can check KD and WB, and I think Griffin will be lucky to go 18/8 - not enough for them to win it. If the Clips do have a shot, possibly their only edge is in the coaching of Doc Rivers. OKC in 6.


http://grantland.com/the-triangle/clippers-thunder-preview-round-2-2014-russell-westbrook-blake-griffin/

[Stillriledup]

Came across this analysis of Clips/OKC by Zach Lowe - for me, the best writer on the NBA in the country. Anybody who's gotten sick of the tired cliché-mongering on ESPN etc., about who's 'tougher', 'who wants it more', and who's 'got something to prove' might be grateful for the take of somebody who actually seems to know something about the game.

I don't agree that OKC is going to have it as tough vs. Clips as his piece suggests, especially given Paul's injuries. As he rightly points out, they have nobody who can check KD and WB, and I think Griffin will be lucky to go 18/8 - not enough for them to win it. If the Clips do have a shot, possibly their only edge is in the coaching of Doc Rivers. OKC in 6.


http://grantland.com/the-triangle/clippers-thunder-preview-round-2-2014-russell-westbrook-blake-griffin/

Matt Barnes is one of the Clippers best "playoff performers" he's not a "below average" shooter, he's clutch and makes shots when he needs to make shots and makes plays when he needs to make plays.

This series might have already been won by the seeding, its extremely hard for the road team to win a series when both teams are so closely matched.

Clippers played a much better team in the first round than OKC did. Memphis rolled over in the final 2 games, but GS never rolled over, they made LAC work desperately hard in all 7 games, GS has much better players and much better individual talent than Memphis, and more heart (as evidenced by the final 2 Memphis performances).

I disagree with this writer's idea that regular season games mean anything. he's breaking down tape on reg season games, that means nothing because in the playoffs, teams are playing "college style" defense, every possession is contested, things are much different in the energy and how the teams play.

I'll be rooting for the Clippers, but will be surprised if they win more than 1 game, Looks like OKC is a mortal cinch in this series, hopefully the Clippers don't embarrass themselves, hopefully this series goes more than 5 games. This looks like OKC's year, team of destiny. ;)

[thaskalos]

That was a thrashing if ever I saw one...

[Canarsie]

This series might have already been won by the seeding, its extremely hard for the road team to win a series when both teams are so closely matched.

Clippers played a much better team in the first round than OKC did. Memphis rolled over in the final 2 games, but GS never rolled over, they made LAC work desperately hard in all 7 games, GS has much better players and much better individual talent than Memphis, and more heart (as evidenced by the final 2 Memphis performances).

I disagree with this writer's idea that regular season games mean anything. he's breaking down tape on reg season games, that means nothing because in the playoffs, teams are playing "college style" defense, every possession is contested, things are much different in the energy and how the teams play.

I'll be rooting for the Clippers, but will be surprised if they win more than 1 game, Looks like OKC is a mortal cinch in this series, hopefully the Clippers don't embarrass themselves, hopefully this series goes more than 5 games. This looks like OKC's year, team of destiny. ;)

GS really played hard in game two they contested every Clippers shot. No wonder they were so winded the game was so competitive.



1 2 3 4 Total
Warriors 20 21 32 25 98
Clippers 31 36 38 33 138

The difference in the playoffs is that your stars who got you there will log between 40-45 minutes unlike the regular season. The great ones object to being taken out with so much at stake.

Its one game but the Clips surely embarrassed themselves they might as well pack it in for the next four games. Maybe by some chance your watching pro wrestling instead and mixing up the two?

Since you stated "Miami stinks" how about we bet $100 a series payable by paypal. If Brooklyn wins I owe you $100, if Miami loses in the conference final we are even, and if they win/lose (if they make it that far) in the finals I win $100 or $300. Certainly a man of your expertise won't back down from such a bet.

[Canarsie]

Came across this analysis of Clips/OKC by Zach Lowe - for me, the best writer on the NBA in the country. Anybody who's gotten sick of the tired cliché-mongering on ESPN etc., about who's 'tougher', 'who wants it more', and who's 'got something to prove' might be grateful for the take of somebody who actually seems to know something about the game.



I also like Adrian Wojnarowski and Steve Kyler. Both of them are great reads.Wojnarowski has great sources and is very rarely wrong with his info.

[Canarsie]

My analysis (like it means something) from the game. Like many other blowouts the winning team shot the three ball extremely well and won the turnover battle by a wide margin. It happens so many times but duplicating that type of effort in the next game rarely happens.

Blake Griffin worked really hard in the off season and it has paid off in the results he gets. I really like Ibaka and once thought (shows how smart I am) he would be a max player. But he needs to at least try really hard to get the art of posting up in his repertoire. If he hasn't worked with Olajuwon this off season would be a good time to start or continue.

[Stillriledup]

I also like Adrian Wojnarowski and Steve Kyler. Both of them are great reads.Wojnarowski has great sources and is very rarely wrong with his info.

Woj is awesome.....i was reading an article the other day before i knew (or noticed) who wrote it and halfway thru i was like "this has to be Woj" and it was. He's a must read for any serious fan.

[Stillriledup]

GS really played hard in game two they contested every Clippers shot. No wonder they were so winded the game was so competitive.



1 2 3 4 Total
Warriors 20 21 32 25 98
Clippers 31 36 38 33 138

The difference in the playoffs is that your stars who got you there will log between 40-45 minutes unlike the regular season. The great ones object to being taken out with so much at stake.

Its one game but the Clips surely embarrassed themselves they might as well pack it in for the next four games. Maybe by some chance your watching pro wrestling instead and mixing up the two?

Since you stated "Miami stinks" how about we bet $100 a series payable by paypal. If Brooklyn wins I owe you $100, if Miami loses in the conference final we are even, and if they win/lose (if they make it that far) in the finals I win $100 or $300. Certainly a man of your expertise won't back down from such a bet.

Why the sarcastic tone in your final sentence? I'm WAY ahead on release sports picks at PA, i've given out scores of dogs who won outright and have a winning record, not to mention 3-0 in NHL as of the last few weeks.

If you love Miami so much, i hear las vegas takes wagers, i don't make bets with strangers on the internet.

[cj]

That was a thrashing if ever I saw one...

Thanks goodness the series doesn't count aggregate scores like soccer!

[Stillriledup]

That was a thrashing if ever I saw one...

I watched the beginning of the game and saw the score was close, i think OKC was ahead at the time, than i missed the rest of the first half. Went on the internet and saw 69 to 52 (or something like that) at halftime and my first thought was "that's gotta be a misprint".

I knew the Clips were good, but geez, how do you see that coming.

[BlueShoe]

Clipper fan that I am, like most others, did not think that they could win the series with Okie City. After watching in open mouth astonishment the blowout win, now I'm not so sure. Just hope that the Clips did not leave everthing they had on the court last night. To use a racing analogy, there are times when we see a horse run lights out, winning by a huge margin and earning a BSF far higher than anything it has ever shown in the past. Next out it bounces and regresses badly, loses, and never again runs back to the huge race. Hope this does not happen to the Clips. Sure be nice if they could come home up 2-0.

[Stillriledup]

Clipper fan that I am, like most others, did not think that they could win the series with Okie City. After watching in open mouth astonishment the blowout win, now I'm not so sure. Just hope that the Clips did not leave everthing they had on the court last night. To use a racing analogy, there are times when we see a horse run lights out, winning by a huge margin and earning a BSF far higher than anything it has ever shown in the past. Next out it bounces and regresses badly, loses, and never again runs back to the huge race. Hope this does not happen to the Clips. Sure be nice if they could come home up 2-0.

Clippers are really good and they're really deep. When their starters are resting, you got guys on the court like Granger, Collison, Dudley and guys like this.....not chopped liver, these guys are strong NBA blue collar players, so you gotta come off the bench with players who can match this talent level, not too many teams have a backup PG as good as Collison, its hard to defend for sure.

[Canarsie]

Why the sarcastic tone in your final sentence? I'm WAY ahead on release sports picks at PA, i've given out scores of dogs who won outright and have a winning record, not to mention 3-0 in NHL as of the last few weeks.

If you love Miami so much, i hear las vegas takes wagers, i don't make bets with strangers on the internet.

I don't "love" Miami but for you to say they "stink" is one of the most "MORONIC" posts I have ever seen about basketball. Their second option shot a career high FG %. The center (playing out of position) shot 33% for 3 ball taking 218 of them. He worked hard during the off season on that aspect of his game.

OK lets make the bet for charity. All either one of has to do is pick the charity of our choice and the loser pays and substantiates. There goes your stranger argument down the drain. Just think if your so smart a non profit organization will benefit from your expertise.


Or are you.

[magwell]

The top 8 in the west all would beat the heat in a 7 game series, including Memphis and Dallas.

So, there's 8 right there without even thinking too hard about it.......:lol:

[Valuist]

I would think the Heat will be series underdogs if matched up against the Spurs or Clippers. Would be close against the Thunder. Heat would be solid favorite against the Blazers.

[Canarsie]

I would think the Heat will be series underdogs if matched up against the Spurs or Clippers. Would be close against the Thunder. Heat would be solid favorite against the Blazers.

I agree Thunder would probably be a pick em. To say that Golden State, Dallas, or even Portland would take out the Heat in a seven game series is .........

I'll let you guys fill in the blanks.

The Heat might have one major thing going for them and that's plenty of rest. If Kidd uses his second string for twenty minutes a game LBJ and Wade can log less than 35 minutes. If Washington wins they will take something out of the Heat (if they win) bare minimum with their style of play. That series won't be easy especially if they get hot from the three line. Nene and Gortat aren't Roy Hibbert they play physical and don't back down. My hunch is it will be a highly competitive series the question mark for Washington is the oldest one in the book, experience in a conference final.

[BlueShoe]

I would think the Heat will be series underdogs if matched up against the Spurs or Clippers. Would be close against the Thunder. Heat would be solid favorite against the Blazers.
The bookies do not concur with this. Have not checked since Sunday, but as of then in the futures wagering to win it all, the Heat was still the solid favorite, followed by the Spurs, Thunder, Clippers and Pacers, in that order.

[Poindexter]

I actually had not seen Miami play until yesterday. Look like the same team as last year to me. I do not know what has transpired between them winning the championship and yesterday, but what makes any of you think they are not at least as good as SA, OKC and the Clippers and better than anybody else? For them the season is just beginning. For one they can play great defense and only SA among the rest of the elite teams can(at least they did yesterday), which gives them a big edge. To me it looks like SA/Clips playing for the right to play Miami in the finals.

[lansdale]

Just FTR, although this isn't the NBA wagering thread, current NBA title future odds are Miami - 13/10, San Antonio - 14/5, LAC - 9/2, OKC - 9/1. I don't think I've ever seen these odds move around this much since I've been following the sport - people are really confused because this is an extremely competitive year. I agree with those who see a decline in the Heat since last year. I still believe that either Spurs or OKC will beat them - Clips, close but no cigar...yet.

[Stillriledup]

I actually had not seen Miami play until yesterday. Look like the same team as last year to me. I do not know what has transpired between them winning the championship and yesterday, but what makes any of you think they are not at least as good as SA, OKC and the Clippers and better than anybody else? For them the season is just beginning. For one they can play great defense and only SA among the rest of the elite teams can(at least they did yesterday), which gives them a big edge. To me it looks like SA/Clips playing for the right to play Miami in the finals.

They're not as good. Not even close. Yesterdays game was a mail-in job by a team who just played a long tough series. Heat scooted thru unchallenged in Round 1 by a team that's essentially not really a playoff team, they're the much more rested team, if Miami was in the west, they would have finished 6th, 7th or 8th and started Round 1 on the road vs a really good team, and wouldnt have ever swept, they would have been in a 7 game dogfight, things would have been a lot different.

Its pretty easy to look good against a bad Bobcats team with a star player who has a bad foot and in one game vs Brooklyn who was coming off a grueling 7 game series.

[Canarsie]

They're not as good. Not even close. Yesterdays game was a mail-in job by a team who just played a long tough series. Heat scooted thru unchallenged in Round 1 by a team that's essentially not really a playoff team, they're the much more rested team, if Miami was in the west, they would have finished 6th, 7th or 8th and started Round 1 on the road vs a really good team, and wouldnt have ever swept, they would have been in a 7 game dogfight, things would have been a lot different.

Its pretty easy to look good against a bad Bobcats team with a star player who has a bad foot and in one game vs Brooklyn who was coming off a grueling 7 game series.


You do realize that Miami had a higher winning percentage against the western conference? You do realize that no team in the western conference playoffs swept them?


I shouldn't post stats like this for a LAZY person who doesn't do his homework to back up his poorly constructed argument. I will make am exception this one time.

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/miami-heat/team/profile/14/15/1-9-1-eff


You do realize that Miami mailed it in during the regular season not playing Wade in 28 games they really didn't care.


Before you say I "love" Miami my two cents thinks that they would lose to both San Antonio and the Clippers. They have a slight edge over OKC because of matchups that would be a highly competitive series.

Ok so San Antonio played a grueling seven games and thrashed Portland guess that's different. How come you don't mention Zack Randolph getting suspended for game seven giving OKC (the better team imo) an easier time in game seven yet they were crushed by the Clippers in game one? The same Clippers you have PREDICTED will win one game. :rolleyes:

Then again all this drivel is coming from a person who for the life of me DIDN'T KNOW how the NBA playoff seeding works. Your Golden State argument is another thread is insane. If you're right how come there wasn't one post backing you up? How come not one person in here (lots are highly knowledgeable) agreeing with almost anything you have written. Surely if Miami "stinks" you should have tons of backers.

#SAD

[ronsmac]

I know it's early, but after watching last nights game. How great would it be to see Miami do a foe foe foe foe ala Moses Malone. Even though his turned out to be foe five foe.

[BlueShoe]

Just hope that the Clips did not leave everthing they had on the court last night. To use a racing analogy, there are times when we see a horse run lights out, winning by a huge margin and earning a BSF far higher than anything it has ever shown in the past. Next out it bounces and regresses badly, loses, and never again runs back to the huge race. Hope this does not happen to the Clips.
Okay, they bounced. To stick with the racing analogy, tonight we play the bounce back angle; after the clunker last time, tonight is the return to the top form of the next to last. The Clips win and easily cover the spread.

[Stillriledup]

Washington scored 63 points against Indiana. Let that sink in for a minute.

They had 58 pts with 1 min and change remaining in the game.

58.

Against the fraudulent Pacers.

:bang:

Did the real Wizards get lost on the way to the game and some imposters took their place? :confused:

[Canarsie]

As a fan of the game that was a top notch second round playoff game to watch. This old man was actually able to watch the entire game without nodding off. Most games in this round have been blowouts but not this one. At least to me the refs took a little bit of luster off it with inconsistent calls but the better team (yesterday) won despite that.

As one who has called Westbook a non max contract player he has done his best to prove me wrong. When he shies away from the three ball and gets everyone involved there is no better point guard in the league. Without defensive help he can blow by anyone who plays that position on a fairly regular basis. The problem is he tries to play "hero" ball too much but its obvious someone has gotten through to him starting with game 6 of the Memphis series.

Its also funny that I haven't seen one person call for Brooks head yet in this round.

In closing that was one hell of an MVP acceptance speech one that will be remembered for ages.

[Relwob Owner]

Washington scored 63 points against Indiana. Let that sink in for a minute.

They had 58 pts with 1 min and change remaining in the game.

58.

Against the fraudulent Pacers.

:bang:

Did the real Wizards get lost on the way to the game and some imposters took their place? :confused:


Very disappointing game for the Wiz. They had played so many good games in a row that I guess they were due for a clunker but that was just awful.

[lansdale]

Surprised by Clips loss last night - Game 3 is usually a gimme for the home team. Only caught the second half of last night's game - some spectacular action but confirmed that Clips still without D to compete at this level. Griffin was great - better than I've ever seen him, but he, CP3 and ADJ aren't enough to win it by themselves, and the rest of the Clips seemed to vanish. Paul looked seriously hampered in 4Q - seemed to be limping at times.

Nearly impossible for Clips to come back in this series based on what I've seen in the last two games. They still need one more piece to get to the next level, and the most obvious weak link is Mike Barnes, pace SRU. He's an intelligent and hardworking journeyman, but Clips need at least an All-Star-level player in the SF slot, since that role is so important in today's game. Didn't see these guys winning it, but thought they would put up more of a fight. Especially sorry to see Paul's championship window beginning to close.

[cj]

Surprised by Clips loss last night - Game 3 is usually a gimme for the home team. Only caught the second half of last night's game - some spectacular action but confirmed that Clips still without D to compete at this level. Griffin was great - better than I've ever seen him, but he, CP3 and ADJ aren't enough to win it by themselves, and the rest of the Clips seemed to vanish. Paul looked seriously hampered in 4Q - seemed to be limping at times.

Nearly impossible for Clips to come back in this series based on what I've seen in the last two games. They still need one more piece to get to the next level, and the most obvious weak link is Mike Barnes, pace SRU. He's an intelligent and hardworking journeyman, but Clips need at least an All-Star-level player in the SF slot, since that role is so important in today's game. Didn't see these guys winning it, but thought they would put up more of a fight. Especially sorry to see Paul's championship window beginning to close.

In today's NBA, it is nearly impossible to just drop a guy like Barnes and replace him with an all star. The all star will wind up costing 50 million a year.

[lansdale]

In today's NBA, it is nearly impossible to just drop a guy like Barnes and replace him with an all star. The all star will wind up costing 50 million a year.

No doubt. I was just speculating on a hypothetical. A much cheaper alternative, might be acquiring a defensive specialist, a la Thabo, since they're already so loaded with offense. Someone like Danny Green, for example, couldn't get off the Cleveland bench, but he now is the 8th-rated defensive player in the league, and is a major asset for the Spurs.

Your point about the difficulty of improving an NBA team is well-taken, though.

[lansdale]

Widespread belief on the sports sites that Ibaka will be suspended for the shot to Griffin's groin in Game 4. Would be huge if this transpires. Video clip below.





http://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/assets/4438195/owgriffin.gif

[cj]

Widespread belief on the sports sites that Ibaka will be suspended for the shot to Griffin's groin in Game 4. Would be huge if this transpires. Video clip below.


I'd be surprised if he gets suspended for that, particularly with Perkins pushing him into him. He also folds his hand kind of limply.

I have no idea if it was intentional, but Blake Griffin is such a dirty player I wouldn't blame him if it was.

[HoofedInTheChest]

I'd be surprised if he gets suspended for that, particularly with Perkins pushing him into him. He also folds his hand kind of limply.

I have no idea if it was intentional, but Blake Griffin is such a dirty player I wouldn't blame him if it was.
That looks a little "goonish" to me. ;)

[ronsmac]

Dewayne Wade's knees really are shot. No quickness or explosiveness anymore. He has to work so hard now.

[TravisVOX]

I can't believe the Nets are in the playoffs. Their offense looks awful and when it counted down the stretch last night they were worse.

[Canarsie]

I'd be surprised if he gets suspended for that, particularly with Perkins pushing him into him. He also folds his hand kind of limply.

I have no idea if it was intentional, but Blake Griffin is such a dirty player I wouldn't blame him if it was.

I wouldn't blame him either but if they suspended Zack Randolph he deserves a game also. Randolph's looked like a "slap" to me but the league saw it differently. I really like Ibaka as a player but he has become a "dirty" one at times. This isn't the first time he has done this.


It's really not up to me but if the players (entire league) think he's going to the "man" zone deliberately they will be the ones who give payback.

[Canarsie]

I can't believe the Nets are in the playoffs. Their offense looks awful and when it counted down the stretch last night they were worse.

So who should of replaced them in the east? They had the best record in the east from January 1 until they tanked to get into the 6th spot.

They have a point guard who has a 98 million dollar contact who sometimes plays like he's on a ten day contract from the 'D" league. Garnett was a great player but he has lost the fight with father time. Most of their role players have "overachieved" they have kept the team competitive.

They have a coach that had three timeouts and when the Nets rebounded the ball with 57 seconds left didn't call one. Whatever slim chance they had was lost at that time. They also failed to foul right away losing "precious" seconds. Having said that they aren't the first team this year that "collapsed" down the stretch.

If I were the Nets I would trade him in an instant to Houston for Asik and Lin. They want Beverly on the NY sports shows but that's not happening it would be a heist. The angel of Stern might come out of retirement and "void" the trade.

[lansdale]

Widespread belief on the sports sites that Ibaka will be suspended for the shot to Griffin's groin in Game 4. Would be huge if this transpires. Video clip below.





http://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/assets/4438195/owgriffin.gif



After reviewing the tape, NBA officials ruled that the blow was an accident. CJ breathing sigh of relief?

[cj]

After reviewing the tape, NBA officials ruled that the blow was an accident. CJ breathing sigh of relief?

Not really, because like I said, I never really thought anything would come of this.

[cj]

I wouldn't blame him either but if they suspended Zack Randolph he deserves a game also. Randolph's looked like a "slap" to me but the league saw it differently. I really like Ibaka as a player but he has become a "dirty" one at times. This isn't the first time he has done this.


It's really not up to me but if the players (entire league) think he's going to the "man" zone deliberately they will be the ones who give payback.

Ibaka isn't really a dirty player at all, other than when Blake Griffin is on the court. Griffin baits him, and Serge gets sucked in. I would say it was dumb, but since the refs basically never call any of Blake's antics, I'm not sure what he should do. Griffin is the master of hooking other players with his arms and even legs and pulling them down with him.

[lansdale]

Not really, because like I said, I never really thought anything would come of this.

Really is hard to say. Perkins clearly pushed him, but Ibaka's follow-through seems pretty strong. Amazing how many Spurs fans saw this as intentional.

Hope we can get through the rest of this series without a trip to the ER.

[Canarsie]

Ibaka isn't really a dirty player at all, other than when Blake Griffin is on the court. Griffin baits him, and Serge gets sucked in. I would say it was dumb, but since the refs basically never call any of Blake's antics, I'm not sure what he should do. Griffin is the master of hooking other players with his arms and even legs and pulling them down with him.

Anyone with the slightest bit of basketball knowledge knows of Griffin's antics. He's probably the most disliked and dirtiest player in the league if voted on by the players. Still you can't get sucked in during the playoffs doing something like that.

My point is once you suspended Randolph everything goes. The Pacers went on the court albeit only a foot. If you are going to penalize a slap (the way I saw it) then the rules have to be applied evenly. Even when both of those games were over there was no talk of Randolph being suspended just possibly the Indiana players. The majority of people covering the NBA thought it was wrong.

One could argue (I'm not included) that the suspension cost Memphis at least a fighting chance in game seven. They should've just fined him the max and be done with it. If they did that Ibaka wouldn't deserve a suspension imo for whatever that's worth.

[lansdale]

Horrifically badly officiated game in OKC tonight, particularly the last 30 seconds. I've seen games as bad as this during the regular season, but rarely ever in the postseason. Durant had more points from the line than from the field. Clips played an amazing game - much better defense than I thought they were capable of playing. Guess the league really wants Durant vs. LBJ in the finals.

[cj]

Horrifically badly officiated game in OKC tonight, particularly the last 30 seconds. I've seen games as bad as this during the regular season, but rarely ever in the postseason. Durant had more points from the line than from the field. Clips played an amazing game - much better defense than I thought they were capable of playing. Guess the league really wants Durant vs. LBJ in the finals.

It was a horribly officiated game all night, on both ends of the floor. What was so bad in the last 30 seconds?

[cj]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BnkfFTrIMAEzJtv.png

[Stillriledup]

Horrifically badly officiated game in OKC tonight, particularly the last 30 seconds. I've seen games as bad as this during the regular season, but rarely ever in the postseason. Durant had more points from the line than from the field. Clips played an amazing game - much better defense than I thought they were capable of playing. Guess the league really wants Durant vs. LBJ in the finals.

Totally. The refs did everything in their power to get the Clippers beat. The last 30 seconds were a travesty. Ball obviously out of bounds off OKC player, given to OKC, Phantom foul on CP3 to "bail out" a shot that wasnt even close.

This game will be talked about for a really long time and not in a good way for the NBA.

[cj]

Totally. The refs did everything in their power to get the Clippers beat. The last 30 seconds were a travesty. Ball obviously out of bounds off OKC player, given to OKC, Phantom foul on CP3 to "bail out" a shot that wasnt even close.

This game will be talked about for a really long time and not in a good way for the NBA.

The call was clearly correct to give OKC the ball, as was the foul on Paul. It was a really poorly officiated game on both ends. There were way too many fouls called. Ibaka had three fouls of which all were bogus. Russ got a few and 1s that weren't fouls at all. It was just bad all around.

[cj]

This may have topped the most exciting game I've ever seen in person. It was formally the G6 win over the Spurs to send the Thunder to the Finals after trailing by 22 or so in the first half. That was a little different though, OKC caught up very early in the fourth and won pretty easily after that. This was different. I always thought the Thunder would win, but when they got down 13 with 4 to go, I was worried.

The one thing I always give Brooks credit for is that the Thunder never give up on a game. They certainly didn't tonight.

[Stillriledup]

The call was clearly correct to give OKC the ball, as was the foul on Paul. It was a really poorly officiated game on both ends. There were way too many fouls called. Ibaka had three fouls of which all were bogus. Russ got a few and 1s that weren't fouls at all. It was just bad all around.

Ok.

[cj]

Anybody seen Blake Griffin? His number was on the scoreboard as being in the game in the 4Q, but he pretty much vanished.

[Valuist]

I can't believe the Nets are in the playoffs. Their offense looks awful and when it counted down the stretch last night they were worse.

The East is really, really weak. It didn't take much to get into the playoffs.

[Valuist]

The one thing I always give Brooks credit for is that the Thunder never give up on a game. They certainly didn't tonight.

True although a win like that takes a lot of energy out of a team, when you add in the stressful game before that, and the series with 4 overtimes against Memphis. Fatigue is a cumulation thing in the NBA. Should the Thunder advance, the Spurs will have no excuse.

[Canarsie]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BnkfFTrIMAEzJtv.png

That wasn't part of the referees statement. If they had gone with that MAYBE 1% of impartial people would have agreed with the call. It was a horribly officiated game this crew should be sent home till next year. For you to say clearly it was OKC ball is absurd. I expect better of you even though its your team. I could debate basketball with you a whole night over a few brews (without having a driving responsibility) and think it would be an intelligent conversation ebbing and flowing. We have differing opinions on some aspects of the game along with player evaluations but I respect your opinion highly along with a few others in here. Here's what the refs said.

http://fansided.com/2014/05/14/tony-brothers-releases-statement-controversial-bounds-play/#!Nqr9M

So your saying you had a better view than them even after they blow up the screen to look at it? Clearly it was a foul the way they were calling the game I was surprised the whistle didn't blow. I did think Paul fouled Westbrook and the way the game was called at least to me there is no issue with that.

I agree with you on Ibaka's foul some were ridiculous. Still when he's in foul trouble he needs to learn sometimes its better to give up the two points even if its uncontested. It's easy for me to say behind a keyboard against a highly competitive player but at some point he has to learn that getting called for a ticky tack foul is DAMAGING to his team.

[PressThePace]

Why is a blown call in the closing seconds any worse than one in the first 5 minutes of a game??? All I know is that it's part of the game. OKC was accosted all night on Griffin screens. Jackson's foul on Crawford's 3 in the 3rd quarter wasn't legit, so let's not get caught up in the whole conspiracy theory bullshit. When you're up 7 with 47 seconds remaining and you lose, you'll never be able to say that you did everything to win the game.

A couple of thoughts:

(1) Scott Brooks is terrible. His team relies completely on two superstars and it's obvious that he's riding their coattails. As CJ pointed out, he does get effort from them, but the constant isolations and lack of ball & player movement are on Brooks.

(2) Steven Adams is going to be really really good. Pick-n-roll D needs to improve, but this kid is physical and active. OKC has another good young one!

[Canarsie]

Totally. The refs did everything in their power to get the Clippers beat. The last 30 seconds were a travesty. Ball obviously out of bounds off OKC player, given to OKC, Phantom foul on CP3 to "bail out" a shot that wasnt even close.

This game will be talked about for a really long time and not in a good way for the NBA.

This game won't be remembered a few weeks from now. I know you can't do this without going back in time but name the ten worst officiated games in the NBA playoffs. Guess I'm a dummy because I certainly can't. Hardy a sole remembers much about badly officiated conference semifinal games.

How was that a phantom foul? Clearly he hit his hand I'll even supply the video for you.

TZaZdse-s7w

[cj]

That wasn't part of the referees statement. If they had gone with that MAYBE 1% of impartial people would have agreed with the call. It was a horribly officiated game this crew should be sent home till next year. For you to say clearly it was OKC ball is absurd. I expect better of you even though its your team. I could debate basketball with you a whole night over a few brews (without having a driving responsibility) and think it would be an intelligent conversation ebbing and flowing. We have differing opinions on some aspects of the game along with player evaluations but I respect your opinion highly along with a few others in here. Here's what the refs said.

http://fansided.com/2014/05/14/tony-brothers-releases-statement-controversial-bounds-play/#!Nqr9M

So your saying you had a better view than them even after they blow up the screen to look at it? Clearly it was a foul the way they were calling the game I was surprised the whistle didn't blow. I did think Paul fouled Westbrook and the way the game was called at least to me there is no issue with that.

I agree with you on Ibaka's foul some were ridiculous. Still when he's in foul trouble he needs to learn sometimes its better to give up the two points even if its uncontested. It's easy for me to say behind a keyboard against a highly competitive player but at some point he has to learn that getting called for a ticky tack foul is DAMAGING to his team.

I agree the refs didn't cite the rule, but they should have. Pretty amazing they didn't really. I'm pretty objective about these things, and watching the replays they showed in the arena, there was no clear cut view that showed Jackson touch the ball. He most likely did, but there really was no view of it that was decisive. So, they did what you are supposed to do, let the call stand. The replays they show in the arena are a direct feed of what the refs are seeing.

The NBA really needs some work on this replay garbage. Maybe a challenge system would be better. Maybe the possibility of any review being all inclusive, i.e. if you review possession you can review fouls too. The way it is now, no replay is better than the current system. It is awful and kills the flow of the game late.

[cj]

This game won't be remembered a few weeks from now. I know you can't do this without going back in time but name the ten worst officiated games in the NBA playoffs. Guess I'm a dummy because I certainly can't. Hardy a sole remembers much about badly officiated conference semifinal games.

How was that a phantom foul? Clearly he hit his hand I'll even supply the video for you.

TZaZdse-s7w

I'll always remember a couple...Sacramento getting jobbed in a G7 against the Lakers, and the Mavs getting hosed against the Heat.

[Canarsie]

I agree the refs didn't cite the rule, but they should have. Pretty amazing they didn't really. I'm pretty objective about these things, and watching the replays they showed in the arena, there was no clear cut view that showed Jackson touch the ball. He most likely did, but there really was no view of it that was decisive. So, they did what you are supposed to do, let the call stand. The replays they show in the arena are a direct feed of what the refs are seeing.

The NBA really needs some work on this replay garbage. Maybe a challenge system would be better. Maybe the possibility of any review being all inclusive, i.e. if you review possession you can review fouls too. The way it is now, no replay is better than the current system. It is awful and kills the flow of the game late.

I agee with a challenge system a coach should get one and then unlimited until he's ruled against. They could include fouls a coach would really have to be judicious when it could be used. I would set a 30 second max time period after the play is over for the challenge. That wouldn't delay the game so much and the coach would have to rely heavily on his players and assistants. They could also use what the NHL uses and have headquarters make the rulings so there wouldn't be a make up call.

The last two minutes and just calling a flagrant foul so they can look at is horrible and needs to be looked at. Clearly Westbrook hit his elbow before the head I didn't think it was a flagrant as a neutral observer. If three officials can't see it on the floor thats the end of discussion. If a coach wanted to challenge it and lost he has no more.

They will lose a bunch of casual fans because of these delays. The younger generation will start comparing it with baseball that's one thing the NBA doesn't need. The first round games were probably the best since they made it four out of seven. They should try their best to maximize casual fan interest and try to convert them into league pass subscribers. They only charge $50 to watch all the games on the phone if interested this generation will say "that a bargain, its cheaper than a dinner for two".

My two cents

[lansdale]

http://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/assets/4450435/doc.gif


This is the key play of last night's game. As Canarsie points out, Tony Brothers' decision ignored the rule cited by CJ, and was effectively a CYA by this stunningly incompetent crew. From this angle, it's clear, first of all, that if Barnes just holds his ground, RJ will be called for a charge. However, it's also clear that this could be a very careful flop by RJ. Clearly, both men's lower bodies move to avoid contact. It's also clear the Barnes swipes at the ball, but no point at which it's clear that he actually touches it. RJ could just have thrown the ball out of bounds to make it look as though it's been deflected by Barnes, although there is no clear evidence that it has. Gutless non-decision decision.

[lansdale]

I've been trying to figure out how I'd rank last night's OKC/Clips circus among the worst-officiated post-season games in memory. I'd have to say it's second only to the notorious Game 6 of the 2002 Lakers/Kings WCF, in which the Lakers took 27 free throws in the fourth quarter. Of course, this was the game which was later revealed to have been rigged by the NBA in collusion with NBC, by then-NBA referee Tim Donaghy, as part of his testimony before a federal grand jury, which led to his conviction for wire fraud. I've added a link immediately below to some clips of that 2002 game, along with commentary on the fallout from the game from sports journalists, etc..

Below that are links to the first part of the '60 Minutes' interview with Donaghy and to the NY Times review of his book. For me the most fascinating aspect of his story is less his own betting, than his revelation of the NBA culture of corruption which enabled it. As far as I can see nothing has changed. Before last night's game, OKC was 11-0 in games over which crew chief Tony Brothers presided. Now they're 12-0.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjRcTiwVEwo&feature=player_embedded





http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ex-nba-ref-tim-donaghys-personal-foul/

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/03/sports/basketball/03donaghy.html?_r=0&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1400095097-OcrnBpXSG59DB7Z4B1xx9A

[cj]

...and yet, Brothers made several horrible calls against OKC in the game. Very clever of him.

[cj]

Somehow, despite clearly having a hand in rigging the game for OKC, he missed the easiest illegal screen in the history of basketball on the last play:

http://giant.gfycat.com/EllipticalVeneratedHalicore.gif

[Stillriledup]

Somehow, despite clearly having a hand in rigging the game for OKC, he missed the easiest illegal screen in the history of basketball on the last play:

http://giant.gfycat.com/EllipticalVeneratedHalicore.gif

Who's to say he wouldn't have called it if CP3 had gotten a shot off?

[Stillriledup]

I've been trying to figure out how I'd rank last night's OKC/Clips circus among the worst-officiated post-season games in memory. I'd have to say it's second only to the notorious Game 6 of the 2002 Lakers/Kings WCF, in which the Lakers took 27 free throws in the fourth quarter. Of course, this was the game which was later revealed to have been rigged by the NBA in collusion with NBC, by then-NBA referee Tim Donaghy, as part of his testimony before a federal grand jury, which led to his conviction for wire fraud. I've added a link immediately below to some clips of that 2002 game, along with commentary on the fallout from the game from sports journalists, etc..

Below that are links to the first part of the '60 Minutes' interview with Donaghy and to the NY Times review of his book. For me the most fascinating aspect of his story is less his own betting, than his revelation of the NBA culture of corruption which enabled it. As far as I can see nothing has changed. Before last night's game, OKC was 11-0 in games over which crew chief Tony Brothers presided. Now they're 12-0.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjRcTiwVEwo&feature=player_embedded





http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ex-nba-ref-tim-donaghys-personal-foul/

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/03/sports/basketball/03donaghy.html?_r=0&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1400095097-OcrnBpXSG59DB7Z4B1xx9A

You say "worst officiated" but maybe it was "best" officiated from the standpoint of the NBA's coffers.

People forget that the NBA is an entertainment organization, there is no "state law" that says have to call a game honestly, all they care about is providing the most "entertainment" possible....and by handing OKC the game last night, they put themselves in a great position to have a game 7 back in OKC. If they had called the game fairly and the CLippers had won, there's less of a chance there would have been 7 games as LAC would have been favored to win game 6.

So, they just put themselves in a more favorable position to have 7 games in stead of 6....

seems like that's more "entertaining" than the idea this series might only go 6.

[Valuist]

I've been trying to figure out how I'd rank last night's OKC/Clips circus among the worst-officiated post-season games in memory. I'd have to say it's second only to the notorious Game 6 of the 2002 Lakers/Kings WCF, in which the Lakers took 27 free throws in the fourth quarter. Of course, this was the game which was later revealed to have been rigged by the NBA in collusion with NBC, by then-NBA referee Tim Donaghy, as part of his testimony before a federal grand jury, which led to his conviction for wire fraud. I've added a link immediately below to some clips of that 2002 game, along with commentary on the fallout from the game from sports journalists, etc..

Below that are links to the first part of the '60 Minutes' interview with Donaghy and to the NY Times review of his book. For me the most fascinating aspect of his story is less his own betting, than his revelation of the NBA culture of corruption which enabled it. As far as I can see nothing has changed. Before last night's game, OKC was 11-0 in games over which crew chief Tony Brothers presided. Now they're 12-0.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjRcTiwVEwo&feature=player_embedded





http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ex-nba-ref-tim-donaghys-personal-foul/

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/03/sports/basketball/03donaghy.html?_r=0&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1400095097-OcrnBpXSG59DB7Z4B1xx9A


That 2002 Kings-Lakers series was nothing short of criminal and we knew it while it was happening.

As for Brothers, 12-0 may look impressive but it is a very small sample size, and the Thunder have been a high win % team. Maybe they could've expected to go 9-3 in that time. Viewed in that context, the 12-0 isn't as out of line as one might think.

[cj]

Who's to say he wouldn't have called it if CP3 had gotten a shot off?

Anybody that actually follows basketball and understands it. Illegal screens are called immediately, not five seconds later. He actually drove Sefolosha from behind the three point line to the restricted area.

[Stillriledup]

Anybody that actually follows basketball and understands it. Illegal screens are called immediately, not five seconds later. He actually drove Sefolosha from behind the three point line to the restricted area.

And what does this have to do with the "wrong possession" call and the bogus foul against CP3?

[cj]

And what does this have to do with the "wrong possession" call and the bogus foul against CP3?

It was not a bogus call on CP3, clearly a foul. There are plenty of images and videos circulating now that show it plain as day. You really think Paul could block a shot by Russ straight up like that? Laughable. Russ can jump over Chris Paul.

[Stillriledup]

It was not a bogus call on CP3, clearly a foul. There are plenty of images and videos circulating now that show it plain as day. You really think Paul could block a shot by Russ straight up like that? Laughable. Russ can jump over Chris Paul.

Listen.

You've seen plenty of NBA games. There's essentially some sort of "foul" on every play. A very small percentage of those fouls get called. Most get let go.

So, at what point is a "foul a foul"?

You want them all called, or just let the refs pick and choose on a whim?

[Canarsie]

Somehow, despite clearly having a hand in rigging the game for OKC, he missed the easiest illegal screen in the history of basketball on the last play:

http://giant.gfycat.com/EllipticalVeneratedHalicore.gif


He also missed Jackson fouling CP. Take a good hard look he definitely hit his hand causing him to lose the ball. Still unlike some I don't buy the conspiracy theory. I saw it on tv and it was as clear as day.

[Canarsie]

I'll always remember a couple...Sacramento getting jobbed in a G7 against the Lakers, and the Mavs getting hosed against the Heat.

I'll give you the Lakers but Dallas was a final people remember that. Same thing in football or baseball the only ones usually remembered are in the championship game. The Oakland tuck rule is one but that became famous and is the rare exception.

[cj]

He also missed Jackson fouling CP. Take a good hard look he definitely hit his hand causing him to lose the ball. Still unlike some I don't buy the conspiracy theory. I saw it on tv and it was as clear as day.

He did, but clearly that screen was first and much more egregious. I have no problem with either not being called. I'm just saying stuff is missed all the time. Blaming outcomes on one bad call is BS.

I think we can all agree the game needs better officials and less replay.

[Stillriledup]

He did, but clearly that screen was first and much more egregious. I have no problem with either not being called. I'm just saying stuff is missed all the time. Blaming outcomes on one bad call is BS.

I think we can all agree the game needs better officials and less replay.

Replay is fine, but you have to use it correctly. Until last night, i didnt think it was all that difficult.

[ronsmac]

Heat completely shuts Brooklyn down in the last 4 minutes. Who's next, Pacers or Wizards?

[cj]

NBA says the right call, replay was not clear and conclusive, pretty much what I felt all along. Was it "probably" off Jackson? Yes. Clearly on replay? Not a chance.

[Stillriledup]

NBA says the right call, replay was not clear and conclusive, pretty much what I felt all along. Was it "probably" off Jackson? Yes. Clearly on replay? Not a chance.

Of course they're going to say it was the right call, its not like they're exactly an unbiased observer.

[Stillriledup]

NBA says the right call, replay was not clear and conclusive, pretty much what I felt all along. Was it "probably" off Jackson? Yes. Clearly on replay? Not a chance.
There's an angle of replay that wasnt shown last night for some reason that you can see its clearly off Jackson. If i find that angle on the internet, i'll post it.

[cj]

Of course they're going to say it was the right call, its not like they're exactly an unbiased observer.


They've announced several calls as wrong already this postseason.

[Canarsie]

He did, but clearly that screen was first and much more egregious. I have no problem with either not being called. I'm just saying stuff is missed all the time. Blaming outcomes on one bad call is BS.

I think we can all agree the game needs better officials and less replay.

I agree 100% on the one bad call only a person who starts watching when the playoffs starts would run with that. Just think when there was only two refs (before 1989) yet I can't remember so many blown or ticky tack calls. Of course the game was played way different then.

These games are going to run 3 1/2 hours if they continue this nonsense and people pay a nice sum of money to see the stars. I'm not saying don't call them but let the ticky tack stuff go unless the game is really physical. The NBA will lose fans and stop its surge trying to become the number two sport in the USA.

When we played in the schoolyard there was only one rule regarding fouls in the act of shooting. Even if the ball went through the hoop it was ball out no basket. Even though that's at the lowest level the game flow was great and teams next up didn't have to wait so long.

[Canarsie]

They've announced several calls as wrong already this postseason.

100% accurate.

Why does the NBA keep admitting to blown calls in the playoffs?

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/04/nba-admits-bad-call-transparency

Maybe you and I are watching the wrong game because one person that has a low basketball IQ just posted they are biased and would never do such a thing.

[Canarsie]

A few comments about the Heat series that are my observations.

I never liked Joe Johnson where he was with the Hawks considered him a chucker. He has changed his game for the benefit of the team and has certainly become an upper tier player. LBJ had a hard time stopping him till late he was really locked in.

I thought Ray Allen was done and even though he hit only one three it was when the Heat needed it most. Plus his knack for getting offensive rebounds for a team that doesn't do that well shows the canny veteran he is.

Chris Bosh and his ability to make clutch threes gives the team a slight chance against the west. I love players who works hard to improve their game. Chris Anderson knows his role and does a great job considering he probably gets paid vets minimum.

I feel bad for Kevin Garnett. In 2008 when they won it all during an interview he said " I am a true professional, I take pride in my craft". How could you not like a guy who states what he expects of himself.

Kidd was killed early in the season (including me) yet he improved as the season went on. Sure he makes mistakes but every coach does. He seemed to have control of the locker room a big plus.

Good for Shaun Livingston to come back from a horrific injury and perform like he did is a great story. He's a guy who deserve every cent he gets in free agency.

Please feel free to add on, pound, or whatever you like on what I wrote.

[magwell]

Canarsie looks like you covered it :ThmbUp::ThmbUp: regarding the bad calls I believe like losing photos it evens out .......:)

[Stillriledup]

Canarsie looks like you covered it :ThmbUp::ThmbUp: regarding the bad calls I believe like losing photos it evens out .......:)

It all evens out, but it seems to never "Even out" for the league, they always seem to benefit from their "incompetence"

If the Clippers win tonight, they have a "Free" Game 7 of revenue, all because of their "honest mistake"

Now, i know its the fallacy of the predetermined outcome, and theoretically, Game 6 would be played different if the Clippers were in a closeout instead of a "must win" but they just put themselves on a 5 pt Favorite instead of a 5 dog to get a 7th game. 10 pt swing in the league's favor for 7th heaven.

Funny how it works out that way.

[cj]

Best team won, now onto the series everyone wanted to see. Should be a great one.

Steven Adams has to scare the crap out of the league. This guy is going to be a beast.

[Stillriledup]

Best team won, now onto the series everyone wanted to see. Should be a great one.

Steven Adams has to scare the crap out of the league. This guy is going to be a beast.

Deserving win, good luck in the next round. No excuses for the Clippers, they just weren't good enough.

[Valuist]

Bring on OKC. Pop and the boys are ready.

[cj]

Bring on OKC. Pop and the boys are ready.

It should be epic and great basketball to watch too. Really hoping Ibaka injury isn't serious, because he plays huge against the Spurs. Probably little chance to win without him.

[Valuist]

It should be epic and great basketball to watch too. Really hoping Ibaka injury isn't serious, because he plays huge against the Spurs. Probably little chance to win without him.

Parker tweaked a hamstring the other day so I don't know if he'll be 100% either.

Same final four as last year. I think the REAL finals is Spurs-Thunder.

[cj]

Parker tweaked a hamstring the other day so I don't know if he'll be 100% either.

Same final four as last year. I think the REAL finals is Spurs-Thunder.

Parker has had hamstring issues for like three years now, it is always tweaked!

I can't dismiss Miami that easily. Lebron is too good. The rest of the team is slipping, but he can carry them through a series. That said, only an epic choke by the Spurs carried them last year.

[Canarsie]

Best team won, now onto the series everyone wanted to see. Should be a great one.

Steven Adams has to scare the crap out of the league. This guy is going to be a beast.

The question is (at least in my mind) how pop draws up schemes to defend Westbrook who is on a roll. Will be interesting to see as the chess match progresses.

Presti made a great pick (that's not unusual) he is a big boy. In a league where centers don't dominate anymore he will be a force rebounding and defending the lane. I didn't know Ibaka signed an extension for four years that was a great move. Twelve million was a fair price and he gets to stay with a team he knows. That's a big deal for a guy who has some trouble (from what I've read) with the english language.

My big question is who steps up to be OKC's third scorer there is no consistency there.

I wonder what the ratings will be as these are two small market teams. I know the argument about S.A. population but all the NBA cares about is ratings at this point. With two other teams in the state and OKC around 200 miles north of Dallas lets see what Neilsen comes up with. I'll be watching with great anticipation.

Where is the writer from the Oklahoman now?

Funny how three of the coaches were on the hot seat (press driven) during stages of their career yet they at the one's left in the party. Sometimes you never know if you replace the coach how it will turn out.

[Canarsie]

Parker has had hamstring issues for like three years now, it is always tweaked!

I can't dismiss Miami that easily. Lebron is too good. The rest of the team is slipping, but he can carry them through a series. That said, only an epic choke by the Spurs carried them last year.

That could also be said of the Heat when they played Dallas. Lots of people in the press questioned if they could recover from it.

[cj]

The question is (at least in my mind) how pop draws up schemes to defend Westbrook who is on a roll. Will be interesting to see as the chess match progresses.

Presti made a great pick (that's not unusual) he is a big boy. In a league where centers don't dominate anymore he will be a force rebounding and defending the lane. I didn't know Ibaka signed an extension for four years that was a great move. Twelve million was a fair price and he gets to stay with a team he knows. That's a big deal for a guy who has some trouble (from what I've read) with the english language.

My big question is who steps up to be OKC's third scorer there is no consistency there.

I wonder what the ratings will be as these are two small market teams. I know the argument about S.A. population but all the NBA cares about is ratings at this point. With two other teams in the state and OKC around 200 miles north of Dallas lets see what Neilsen comes up with. I'll be watching with great anticipation.

Where is the writer from the Oklahoman now?

Funny how three of the coaches were on the hot seat (press driven) during stages of their career yet they at the one's left in the party. Sometimes you never know if you replace the coach how it will turn out.

Just FYI, Serge spoke no English when he arrived. It isn't a problem any longer.

As for a third scorer, Ibaka and Jackson have killed the Spurs. If one or both continues, OKC will be fine. If not, it will be trouble.

I still don't think Brooks is much of a bench coach, but he gets the Thunder to play very hard and they never give up on a game. The players love him, and that means a lot.

[cj]

That could also be said of the Heat when they played Dallas. Lots of people in the press questioned if they could recover from it.

That was a bit different in my opinion. The Mavs had a great team and Dirk was on an epic roll. Miami choked away an early game if I remember right, but they never had it in their grasp like the Spurs did.

[Canarsie]

Parker tweaked a hamstring the other day so I don't know if he'll be 100% either.

Same final four as last year. I think the REAL finals is Spurs-Thunder.

OKC didn't make it last year the Grizzlies beat them.

Grizzlies hold on to advance
Led by Zach Randolph, Memphis tops OKC 88-84 to advance to West finals.

[Canarsie]

That was a bit different in my opinion. The Mavs had a great team and Dirk was on an epic roll. Miami choked away an early game if I remember right, but they never had it in their grasp like the Spurs did.

Can't argue that the Spurs were the biggest choke that I can recall in the finals. While it was a tremendous play by Bosh he had to be lucky that Allen was in the corner. Most people only remember the shot.

Everyone says Dirk but Chandler was the monster who controlled the paint throwing the Heat into disarray. Even though his skill are severely diminished Cuban made a big mistake letting him walk in free agency.

[Canarsie]

Just FYI, Serge spoke no English when he arrived. It isn't a problem any longer.



I can only go by what they said on television. Whoever was the announcer said Brooks had a player (can't remember who) sometimes translate a play for him. They said he understands english but gets confused sometimes.

Speaking of announcer Brian Anderson is the worst. During an OKC-Memphis he said Miami quite a few times and no one corrected him. His color analyst has to cover his mistakes between a timeout and a jump ball among others. Stated that Jay Z is an owner of the Nets. The list is large I'm surprised TNT can't do better than that. I sure hope Reggie Miller becomes the lead color analyst he is a great listen telling you what might happen as the game is in progress.

[lansdale]

I've mentioned that I've been rooting for Spurs in this series, but very sad to see this development. When I heard Ibaka had gotten off the plane wearing a walking boot and limping, I knew this had to be somewhat serious. I called an orthopedist I knew and he said it had to be at least a Grade 2 strain (90% tear). He said, if it's Grade 3, a complete blowout of the gastrocnemius (believe the same thing that sidelined Thabo) he would be done for the season. So, must be the latter.

Difficult to see OKC winning, given this development, and impossible to know who really is the better team, given Ibaka's absence. Even before the announcement, Spurs were -160 to win it.

One thing that struck me about this, is whether this kind of injury is the cost of a playing style requiring tremendous athleticism. We've already mentioned this with regard to the injuries of Rose (who may never return to his original level), Westbrook, and Kobe (who Achilles blowout was very similar to Ibaka's injury). Injuries have always been part of the game, but it seems to me they're now more seriously and potentially career-ending than ever.






http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2014/story/_/id/10943844/serge-ibaka-oklahoma-city-thunder-expected-miss-rest-postseason-calf-injury

[Stillriledup]

I've mentioned that I've been rooting for Spurs in this series, but very sad to see this development. When I heard Ibaka had gotten off the plane wearing a walking boot and limping, I knew this had to be somewhat serious. I called an orthopedist I knew and he said it had to be at least a Grade 2 strain (90% tear). He said, if it's Grade 3, a complete blowout of the gastrocnemius (believe the same thing that sidelined Thabo) he would be done for the season. So, must be the latter.

Difficult to see OKC winning, given this development, and impossible to know who really is the better team, given Ibaka's absence. Even before the announcement, Spurs were -160 to win it.

One thing that struck me about this, is whether this kind of injury is the cost of a playing style requiring tremendous athleticism. We've already mentioned this with regard to the injuries of Rose (who may never return to his original level), Westbrook, and Kobe (who Achilles blowout was very similar to Ibaka's injury). Injuries have always been part of the game, but it seems to me they're now more seriously and potentially career-ending than ever.






http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2014/story/_/id/10943844/serge-ibaka-oklahoma-city-thunder-expected-miss-rest-postseason-calf-injury


When i saw this guy go out, i thought that this gave the Clippers a HUGE edge, but the Clippers didnt see it the same way i saw it.

Tough blow for OKC.

[cj]

When i saw this guy go out, i thought that this gave the Clippers a HUGE edge, but the Clippers didnt see it the same way i saw it.

Tough blow for OKC.

I was surprised Rivers went small right when Ibaka went out.

[cj]

I'm no Chris Paul fan, so maybe I'm off base, but I thought he made kind of a dirty play there. I don't think he meant to injure Ibaka, but he definitely hooked his leg.

On another play, the one everyone was saying was a terrible call against Paul when he fouled Nick Collison, turns out it was a foul, and not exactly a "clean" play either.

http://fat.gfycat.com/HandsomeImpassionedGenet.webm

[Stillriledup]

I'm no Chris Paul fan, so maybe I'm off base, but I thought he made kind of a dirty play there. I don't think he meant to injure Ibaka, but he definitely hooked his leg.

On another play, the one everyone was saying was a terrible call against Paul when he fouled Nick Collison, turns out it was a foul, and not exactly a "clean" play either.

http://fat.gfycat.com/HandsomeImpassionedGenet.webm

More fouls are let go than called. Probably 9 are "let go" to every one that is called. Same with NFL holdings.

[cj]

More fouls are let go than called. Probably 9 are "let go" to every one that is called. Same with NFL holdings.

Yeah. Has nothing to do with my post though.

[Stillriledup]

I was surprised Rivers went small right when Ibaka went out.

I just think the Clippers lost their mojo, they kind of "Went away" a bit, maybe there was mental carryover from the devastating loss in the previous game, who knows.

Clippers need to get the best available defender out there, they need someone who is awesome and can somehow, sort of, even mildly defend the KDs and the Lebrons of the league...if you can't defend KD or Lebron, you have no chance, Clips need to address that in the offseason.

[cj]

I just think the Clippers lost their mojo, they kind of "Went away" a bit, maybe there was mental carryover from the devastating loss in the previous game, who knows.

Clippers need to get the best available defender out there, they need someone who is awesome and can somehow, sort of, even mildly defend the KDs and the Lebrons of the league...if you can't defend KD or Lebron, you have no chance, Clips need to address that in the offseason.

Two guys basically vanished for them, Jamal Crawford and DeAndre Jordan.

[Stillriledup]

Yeah. Has nothing to do with my post though.

Sure it does.

My contention is that lots get let go, including stuff that are actually fouls. If you want them all called, they all need to be called for both teams. Seems like you have either a selective memory, or aren't really paying attention. When Griffin or CP3 get fouled, its not really a foul, its a flop, but when your guy falls down, its a dirty play and a definite foul.

Griffin gets fouled and it NOT called more than anyone in the NBA. Ask someone who knows the league if that's true or not.

[Stillriledup]

Two guys basically vanished for them, Jamal Crawford and DeAndre Jordan.

Jordan has potential to be great, but he's too soft, he needs to turn into a maniac and start destroying people, taking the hard fouls, knocking people into tomorrow and take the suspension here and the fine there...he needs to step up and get much angrier, hopefully next season will be even better.

[cj]

Sure it does.

My contention is that lots get let go, including stuff that are actually fouls. If you want them all called, they all need to be called for both teams. Seems like you have either a selective memory, or aren't really paying attention. When Griffin or CP3 get fouled, its not really a foul, its a flop, but when your guy falls down, its a dirty play and a definite foul.

Griffin gets fouled and it NOT called more than anyone in the NBA. Ask someone who knows the league if that's true or not.

Griffin and Paul both flop AND play dirty, thus they have stopped getting much benefit of the doubt. I know fouls aren't called, that wasn't the point. Your guys love hooking arms and legs and dragging guys down with them. I find it hilarious Paul tried to flop an extra free throw from 70 feet away and it cost him the game!

Westbrook gets fouled probably as much as Griffin without getting called. I think the refs are just afraid of calling too many FTs for OKC at times. Durant gets his share and more of superstar calls. I have no problem admitting that. I think Westbrook pays the price for it.

[cj]

Jordan has potential to be great, but he's too soft, he needs to turn into a maniac and start destroying people, taking the hard fouls, knocking people into tomorrow and take the suspension here and the fine there...he needs to step up and get much angrier, hopefully next season will be even better.

That stuff doesn't really fly in the NBA these days. You can't just take fines and suspensions to be a tough guy. He is as athletic as Serge, but he just isn't as basketball smart on the defensive end. I think Doc will help him.

In the end though, he'll always be a liability because of his free throw shooting.

[Stillriledup]

That stuff doesn't really fly in the NBA these days. You can't just take fines and suspensions to be a tough guy. He is as athletic as Serge, but he just isn't as basketball smart on the defensive end. I think Doc will help him.

In the end though, he'll always be a liability because of his free throw shooting.

DJs problem is his lateral movement, as we all know, he's the best in the game up and down, but side to side is what he has to work on. His instincts arent the best either. They'll probably work a lot on accentuating his strengths for next season, he's a pretty good defender overall, blocks a lot of shots and makes guys alter their shots a lot which doesn't show up in any boxscores, but he does need to work on the defense for sure and of course, improve FTs even just a little bit.

[Stillriledup]

Griffin and Paul both flop AND play dirty, thus they have stopped getting much benefit of the doubt. I know fouls aren't called, that wasn't the point. Your guys love hooking arms and legs and dragging guys down with them. I find it hilarious Paul tried to flop an extra free throw from 70 feet away and it cost him the game!

Westbrook gets fouled probably as much as Griffin without getting called. I think the refs are just afraid of calling too many FTs for OKC at times. Durant gets his share and more of superstar calls. I have no problem admitting that. I think Westbrook pays the price for it.

I don't see any dirty play from the Clippers, if they league feels they're playing dirty, they'll be fined and suspended, that league has no problem handing out 1 game suspensions, i dont remember Blake or CP getting 1 gamers for dirty play.

[Valuist]

It should be epic and great basketball to watch too. Really hoping Ibaka injury isn't serious, because he plays huge against the Spurs. Probably little chance to win without him.

Word is he will be out. Tough break for Thunder.

[cj]

I don't see any dirty play from the Clippers, if they league feels they're playing dirty, they'll be fined and suspended, that league has no problem handing out 1 game suspensions, i dont remember Blake or CP getting 1 gamers for dirty play.

We all know stars are treated differently, and that includes Durant, Westbrook, etc.

My favorite moment last night was Blake screaming "where is the fu@#ing foul" when he fouled out, clearly audible on ESPN. Then they showed the replay and he actually hammered Westbrook over the head. It probably should have been ruled a flagrant, but it was Blake so they didn't check. He also didn't get a tech. It was way worse than Westbrook's flagrant from the other night, and Blake still cried about it. If Matt Barnes did that, 100% of the time it is a tech at least.

[cj]

Word is he will be out. Tough break for Thunder.

Yeah, the only bright side is Adams has really stepped it up in the playoffs. Not sure that will be enough though.

[Valuist]

Yeah, the only bright side is Adams has really stepped it up in the playoffs. Not sure that will be enough though.

He is good, although arguably a dirty player. Spurs will have to deal with him.

[Stillriledup]

We all know stars are treated differently, and that includes Durant, Westbrook, etc.

My favorite moment last night was Blake screaming "where is the fu@#ing foul" when he fouled out, clearly audible on ESPN. Then they showed the replay and he actually hammered Westbrook over the head. It probably should have been ruled a flagrant, but it was Blake so they didn't check. He also didn't get a tech. It was way worse than Westbrook's flagrant from the other night, and Blake still cried about it. If Matt Barnes did that, 100% of the time it is a tech at least.

So, if i wrote something about a Thunder player and said "of course, why would they check" do you think you would have said "i agree with you".

:D

If you aren't sure how Blake is treated by officials during the season, watch more Clippers games. I know you havent seen all 82, so you don't know about all the T's blake got for getting hammered and walking away, he had plenty of Ts rescinded and in almost all cases, its the other guy who starts it. Blake takes a lot of punishment, a lot of cheap shots and does really well to hold his cool and not retaliate.

[Canarsie]

Sure it does.

My contention is that lots get let go, including stuff that are actually fouls. If you want them all called, they all need to be called for both teams. Seems like you have either a selective memory, or aren't really paying attention. When Griffin or CP3 get fouled, its not really a foul, its a flop, but when your guy falls down, its a dirty play and a definite foul.

Griffin gets fouled and it NOT called more than anyone in the NBA. Ask someone who knows the league if that's true or not.

Do you have a stat to back up your opinion? I subscribe to league pass and don't have a team so I try to look at things straight up.

I happen to like Griffin as a player when he doesn't start with the shenanigans it disrupts and takes away how much he has improved. He is one of a few players who uses the backboard effectively he put in a lot of work to achieve that and it has paid off.

Since his shot has also greatly improved he is further away from the basket than ever before. But that also means the likelihood of getting fouled is severely diminished.

Now get someone who didn't started watching when the playoffs started to dispute what I wrote.

[cj]

He is good, although arguably a dirty player. Spurs will have to deal with him.

He sure gets a reaction from the other teams, but I've yet to see a single thing ever caught on video that would show him as being dirty. He is just very, very strong and likes to bang. He gets under the skin of the other players.

Perkins, he does some dirty stuff. I haven't seen it from Adams.

[ronsmac]

Perkins is the ultimate bum. Can't shoot, can't jump, can't run, can't block shots, can't score, avg rebounder, but excellent at looking mean.

[Stillriledup]

Perkins is the ultimate bum. Can't shoot, can't jump, can't run, can't block shots, can't score, avg rebounder, but excellent at looking mean.

He's the meanest most menacing looking guy out there, no doubt. :D

[cj]

Perkins is the ultimate bum. Can't shoot, can't jump, can't run, can't block shots, can't score, avg rebounder, but excellent at looking mean.

He has actually played well (by his standards) in the playoffs, but I want him gone.

[Canarsie]

Perkins is the ultimate bum. Can't shoot, can't jump, can't run, can't block shots, can't score, avg rebounder, but excellent at looking mean.

Who was the guy Brooks left in with a few seconds left on the clock against Memphis? Who put the ball in as time expired? OKC went on to lose in OT but it certainly wasn't Perks fault.

Yes I was among the majority of people saying Brooks was an idiot for keeping him in, thought Brooks was an idiot. People tend to forget when a coach makes a stupid move (in many opinions) and turns out to be a stinking genius.

Clearly he is at the end of his career but he is still skilled at things that don't show up in the scoreboard among others would be getting under ones skin.

I can't see OKC not letting him go unless they still have their amnesty provision left.

[cj]

I can't see OKC not letting him go unless they still have their amnesty provision left.

He has one year left, and he can still be amnestied. Pretty sure he is the only guy actually left in the NBA that can still be amnestied.

Perkins definitely has value. He is a great post defender, and he is pretty good on the pick and roll. He does well even when switched onto point guards. He also sets very good screens.

That said, those skills are usually get you about league minimum salary, not the 9 million he'll make next year.

[Canarsie]

He has one year left, and he can still be amnestied. Pretty sure he is the only guy actually left in the NBA that can still be amnestied.

Perkins definitely has value. He is a great post defender, and he is pretty good on the pick and roll. He does well even when switched onto point guards. He also sets very good screens.

That said, those skills are usually get you about league minimum salary, not the 9 million he'll make next year.

So the question becomes (at least to me) do the owners swallow the nine mil they still would be barely over the cap. I cannot question almost every move that Presti makes (he's a GM, I'm a poster) but trying to resign Butler would be on my agenda. When he's on the red sea opens up for Westbrook instead of just a lane.

I wonder if Miami would show any interest if he's amnestied? At vet minimum he would add toughness in the paint something Indiana took advantage of yesterday.

[Canarsie]

Mack
Getting ahead here but OKC is the only team that has an amnesty player left. Do you think they will use it on Perkins?

Steve Kyler
I wouldn’t. No reason to.

Read more at http://www.basketballinsiders.com/chat/nba-rumors-chat-with-steve-kyler-51914/#H7P0s8mScRAEAorE.99

[lansdale]

Pacers have obviously been keeping their powder dry for this series if yesterday's game means anything. I'm sure Miami will play better in Game 2 (although, not so sure about Wade), but if they don't win, it seems to me they'll have to beat the Pacers four games in a row, since winning Game 7 in Indy would seem like a tall order. Don't think they could do it.

[cj]

So the question becomes (at least to me) do the owners swallow the nine mil they still would be barely over the cap. I cannot question almost every move that Presti makes (he's a GM, I'm a poster) but trying to resign Butler would be on my agenda. When he's on the red sea opens up for Westbrook instead of just a lane.

I wonder if Miami would show any interest if he's amnestied? At vet minimum he would add toughness in the paint something Indiana took advantage of yesterday.

The cap is going up a decent amount next year. OKC had one goal this year financially, stay under the luxury tax. They want to limit the repeat offender penalties, and they will be over the tax in future years. It almost can't be avoided with Russ and KD salaries going up annually.

[lansdale]

Mack
Getting ahead here but OKC is the only team that has an amnesty player left. Do you think they will use it on Perkins?

Steve Kyler
I wouldn’t. No reason to.

Read more at http://www.basketballinsiders.com/chat/nba-rumors-chat-with-steve-kyler-51914/#H7P0s8mScRAEAorE.99

I realize this is departing from your point here, but Kyler's take on Ibaka reminds me why I've always been a little skeptical of his take on NBA talent. If he thinks OKC won't miss him greatly, he's deluded. Ibaka's has been a very close 3rd behind Durant and Westbrook in his value to OKC in the playoffs. Win Share 48 Minutes playoff rankings of these three: Westbrook - .184, Durant - .182, Ibaka - .166. When Ibaka has been on the floor vs. the Spurs they've scored 93 pts. per 100 possessions; when he hasn't been, they've scored 120 pts. per 100. He will be missed.

Re Perk, Kyler's comments seem kind of cryptic, but I agree with him. During his absence, OKC didn't look good - many think that's due to the simultaneous injury hiatus of Thabo, but when Thabo alone was out, OKC did well. Adams has talent (mainly muscle and vertical lift) but he's not yet ready to replace him, and is surely far from replacing Ibaka.

Cheers,

lansdale

[Canarsie]

I realize this is departing from your point here, but Kyler's take on Ibaka reminds me why I've always been a little skeptical of his take on NBA talent. If he thinks OKC won't miss him greatly, he's deluded. Ibaka's has been a very close 3rd behind Durant and Westbrook in his value to OKC in the playoffs. Win Share 48 Minutes playoff rankings of these three: Westbrook - .184, Durant - .182, Ibaka - .166. When Ibaka has been on the floor vs. the Spurs they've scored 93 pts. per 100 possessions; when he hasn't been, they've scored 120 pts. per 100. He will be missed.

Re Perk, Kyler's comments seem kind of cryptic, but I agree with him. During his absence, OKC didn't look good - many think that's due to the simultaneous injury hiatus of Thabo, but when Thabo alone was out, OKC did well. Adams has talent (mainly muscle and vertical lift) but he's not yet ready to replace him, and is surely far from replacing Ibaka.

Cheers,

lansdale

That's what's makes basketball great there are many differing opinions about players, player combos, teams against other teams, and so on. Most of the people here know the game its fine to argue your points and debate. I was ostracized a few years ago for saying how much I liked Bosh but respected everybody's opinions because they "knew" basketball.

I don't agree with him on Ibaka he's a force specially defending off the ball. My only knock on him (because I admire his skills) is that he should work harder in the off season adding another facet to his game. There is no reason why he can't learn to post up and use it at least a few times in 48 minutes. It was only one game but S.A. took advantage of his absence. Adams showed that he's still a rookie and was exposed. That's not his fault he was thrust into the limelight because of Ibaka's injury.

My take on this game ( for whatever that's worth) is that Westbrook and Durant have to play at least 42 minutes bare minimum Wednesday. They don't play again till Sunday that's three days full rest. I'll catch flack for saying this but if I were Brooks take timeouts every three minutes to give them a blow along with tv timeouts. You can't save them for strategy at the end of the game its suicide to sub for them and watch S.A. go plus by "X" amount of points while they were on the bench. You could see Durant was tired in the 4th quarter the lift he usually has wasn't there so I understand rest but they are in a predicament. Plus he has to defend much harder with Ibaka out and that takes a toll. I'm just a "dummy" posting here but Brooks might have to pull a rabbit out of his hat.

As a fan of the game I am still wishing for a competitive series. It would be a great story if OKC extended it to seven it would be must watch television. It doesn't hurt that's its on TBS and you can see the emmy winning team at the half and end of the game. Adding Reggie Miller as a third guy was a great move imo. Reggie lets you know what he thinks in game and is a budding star. That's my only knock on Kerr too much of his analysis is when they run replay.


I need to close with we need Craig Sager back on the sideline wishing you a

SPEEDY RECOVERY

you are sorely missed.

[cj]

I'm not sure there is much Brooks can do without Ibaka, but one thing I was sure wouldn't work was starting three guys that can't do much on offense. It is bad enough when we do two with Perkins / Sefalosha.

I think about all he can do is start Collison and replace Perkins with Adams, or just ditch Sefolosha and insert Lamb or Reggie. Neither will probably work, but those are what I would try. Having Collison, Sefolasho and Perkins on the court together is a joke. Collison isn't near as bad as those guys, he is a very good passer and pick and roll guy. But with the other two on the floor he is very limited.

Not playing Perry Jones until garbage time is a little puzzling too. But, Brooks kind of froze out the young guys after getting Butler and it is probably too late to expect anything from them now.

[lansdale]

That's what's makes basketball great there are many differing opinions about players, player combos, teams against other teams, and so on. Most of the people here know the game its fine to argue your points and debate. I was ostracized a few years ago for saying how much I liked Bosh but respected everybody's opinions because they "knew" basketball.

I don't agree with him on Ibaka he's a force specially defending off the ball. My only knock on him (because I admire his skills) is that he should work harder in the off season adding another facet to his game. There is no reason why he can't learn to post up and use it at least a few times in 48 minutes. It was only one game but S.A. took advantage of his absence. Adams showed that he's still a rookie and was exposed. That's not his fault he was thrust into the limelight because of Ibaka's injury.

My take on this game ( for whatever that's worth) is that Westbrook and Durant have to play at least 42 minutes bare minimum Wednesday. They don't play again till Sunday that's three days full rest. I'll catch flack for saying this but if I were Brooks take timeouts every three minutes to give them a blow along with tv timeouts. You can't save them for strategy at the end of the game its suicide to sub for them and watch S.A. go plus by "X" amount of points while they were on the bench. You could see Durant was tired in the 4th quarter the lift he usually has wasn't there so I understand rest but they are in a predicament. Plus he has to defend much harder with Ibaka out and that takes a toll. I'm just a "dummy" posting here but Brooks might have to pull a rabbit out of his hat.

As a fan of the game I am still wishing for a competitive series. It would be a great story if OKC extended it to seven it would be must watch television. It doesn't hurt that's its on TBS and you can see the emmy winning team at the half and end of the game. Adding Reggie Miller as a third guy was a great move imo. Reggie lets you know what he thinks in game and is a budding star. That's my only knock on Kerr too much of his analysis is when they run replay.


I need to close with we need Craig Sager back on the sideline wishing you a

SPEEDY RECOVERY

you are sorely missed.

Hi Canarsie,

It should be obvious that Brooks is going to play KD and WB as much as he can. If you noticed, both players were grabbing their shorts after they made that run in the 3rd quarter. I'm sure both of them would play 48 minutes if they had the choice. WB is coming off an injury as and is a risk for re-injury with extended minutes. KD played 3112 minutes this season due to WB's absence - more than any other player in the league - and this has undoubtedly taken a toll. Worth remembering that these guys are human beings not animatronic basketball puppets.

Ibaka is an excellent player whose value may now be clearer to many fans than it was before. Do you think coaching staffs have never experimented with Ibaka's potential for post play? Not everybody has the innate talent or body type for every skill.

Cheers,

lansdale

[PressThePace]

I'm pretty sure Brooks will make an adjustment to the starting lineup. I'm guessing that Sefalosha sits and that we may see either Lamb or Jones.

But more than anything else, I think we'll see a change in OKC's pick-n-roll coverage. Normally, their bigs extend and hedge hard on the guards without fear of getting beat at the rim. But with Ibaka's absence, they'll have to be less aggressive on the PNR's, which will result in the Spurs taking a lot more 3's. I don't think this strategy will work either, but I think if you're Scott Brooks, it's the only thing you can do.

[lansdale]

I'm not sure there is much Brooks can do without Ibaka, but one thing I was sure wouldn't work was starting three guys that can't do much on offense. It is bad enough when we do two with Perkins / Sefalosha.

I think about all he can do is start Collison and replace Perkins with Adams, or just ditch Sefolosha and insert Lamb or Reggie. Neither will probably work, but those are what I would try. Having Collison, Sefolasho and Perkins on the court together is a joke. Collison isn't near as bad as those guys, he is a very good passer and pick and roll guy. But with the other two on the floor he is very limited.

Not playing Perry Jones until garbage time is a little puzzling too. But, Brooks kind of froze out the young guys after getting Butler and it is probably too late to expect anything from them now.

All Brooks' options are bad, at this point. The reason I put up the WS 48 numbers above, was to show that the impact of removing Ibaka from OKC is very close to that of removing either KD or WB, although I'm sure few fans think of him as being that valuable. The Spurs are deep enough that Pop can quickly exploit the mismatch in any OKC combination. What's tough for OKC is that they now have few players who can play both ends; to me, KD, WB, and RJ. Obviously, KD and WB will be playing large minutes, but I would also keep RJ out there for this reason, along with whatever combination of big men. Regardless, still won't be enough. To view the series from the perspective of the 2012 team - then, they had four studs: KD, WB, JH, SI - now only two are left.

I know OKC fans have to be depressed by this turn of events, but I think it's a letdown for NBA fans generally. I know it is for me. As many have said, this would have been the real championship series, but if Monday's game is a portent, it's instead going to be more like the Globetrotters vs. the Washington Generals - entertaining, but not great basketball.

[Canarsie]

Hi Canarsie,

It should be obvious that Brooks is going to play KD and WB as much as he can. If you noticed, both players were grabbing their shorts after they made that run in the 3rd quarter. I'm sure both of them would play 48 minutes if they had the choice. WB is coming off an injury as and is a risk for re-injury with extended minutes. KD played 3112 minutes this season due to WB's absence - more than any other player in the league - and this has undoubtedly taken a toll. Worth remembering that these guys are human beings not animatronic basketball puppets.

Ibaka is an excellent player whose value may now be clearer to many fans than it was before. Do you think coaching staffs have never experimented with Ibaka's potential for post play? Not everybody has the innate talent or body type for every skill.

Cheers,

lansdale

As you probably know I don't have a team and consider myself fairly objective. If you look at my posts over the last three years I have nothing but praise for Obaka most times. He really has improved his mid range shot over that period of time that makes him a strong third option. In the NBA without a player like that the chance to win a championship are slim. You can argue San Antonio but they have five third options its what makes them a championship calibre team. Getting back to Ibaka if he tried it lets say two times a game it would be interesting to see how the opposition's defense plays him. He would always have the option to kick it out there's a decent chance somebody would be somewhat open even if it was a cut. My point is I think he can work harder in the off season. I know he does a lot of charitable work and I'm big on that but my belief is he can be a possible top ten player if he puts in the work. People criticized Durant for working out with LBJ but it has paid off with an MVP that should have been unanimous in my opinion.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2014-04-12/serge-ibaka-block-playoffs-donate-to-unicef-charity-okc-thunder-oklahoma-city

I posted before the playoffs started or shortly after they began that the "great" ones have to go the distance now. This was the finals for both teams till Ibaka got injured. This was the series that almost any fan who "loves" basketball wanted to see. Every time they went out for a blow (that I can remember) S.A. extended basically sucking out the wind from OKC. I realize they were tired and I posted that but without either one of them on the floor their chances are dim. The only hope is Fisher, Jackson, or Butler go on fire that can happen on any single night. Adams is thick as a brick but he's a rookie and even asking to fill 50% of Ibaka's shoes isn't fair.

Westbrook has had three knee injuries I realize that. Look at the minutes he played against Memphis even though there were lots of five minute overtimes. But he is the best hope for OKC to get fairly easy points with his ability to "attack" the rim. Shorten his minutes and the season can become a huge disappointment. They have a great GM and a great roster but its time for the two stars left to leave it all on the court. The positive is they get three full days rest before returning to the every other day format.

This took me a long time to write because of my back hope you enjoyed my analysis a little bit. :)

[dav4463]

I know losing Ibaka is a big deal, but if I had not watched basketball in a few years and just turned on the TV for game one;....listening to the media..... I would have thought they were heading into the series without a Wilt Chamberlain type of player!

[Valuist]

Right now, Lebron is saying he maybe could use another runnerup ring to go with his two championship rings.

Know what is stupid? The fact the Spurs don't have a bigger national following. More than any other team in the NBA, they play the right way. But I almost forgot; ESPN has dumbed down the sporting public who believe the game is only about dunks and 3 pointers.

[Canarsie]

CJ: I deleted the poor loser's stuff

For five days this thread had some serious basketball knowledge on it.

I see that IGNORANCE has returned.

Hopefully while you were away there was a learning process about the NBA seeding system.

[Canarsie]

Right now, Lebron is saying he maybe could use another runnerup ring to go with his two championship rings.

Know what is stupid? The fact the Spurs don't have a bigger national following. More than any other team in the NBA, they play the right way. But I almost forgot; ESPN has dumbed down the sporting public who believe the game is only about dunks and 3 pointers.

I disagree this one isn't on the media. The Spurs haven't won a championship since 2007 that's a long period of time. Most NBA fans have teams they are loyal to and rightfully so don't bandwagon jump. The opposite is true for the general public before last year the Spurs didn't make it to the finals since their last championship. Duncan is an all time great but past his prime the casual person watches in the "now".

You should be proud of your team and what they accomplished. But to expect people to root for a small market (I know 7th in population) team without a true superstar (2014) in their eyes is a bit of a reach.

[Valuist]

I disagree this one isn't on the media. The Spurs haven't won a championship since 2007 that's a long period of time. Most NBA fans have teams they are loyal to and rightfully so don't bandwagon jump. The opposite is true for the general public before last year the Spurs didn't make it to the finals since their last championship. Duncan is an all time great but past his prime the casual person watches in the "now".

You should be proud of your team and what they accomplished. But to expect people to root for a small market (I know 7th in population) team without a true superstar (2014) in their eyes is a bit of a reach.

You don't consider Duncan and Parker to be superstars? Obviously Duncan is in the twilight of his career, but he certainly looked like a superstar in the first half of game 1.

The team I root for is the Bulls, but when they aren't alive, I root for the Spurs. Just a great organization and coach, and they do things right. As for that lack of championship talk, I think they will put that to rest in the next month. And 2007 isn't THAT long ago. Not when you have one team buying up 3 of the top free agents in years.

[lansdale]

Right now, Lebron is saying he maybe could use another runnerup ring to go with his two championship rings.

Know what is stupid? The fact the Spurs don't have a bigger national following. More than any other team in the NBA, they play the right way. But I almost forgot; ESPN has dumbed down the sporting public who believe the game is only about dunks and 3 pointers.

We may be able to remember a time when all the best teams played like this (as you say, the right way), but those days are long gone. Even in the early aughts, when the Big Three were racking up championships, the flashier style of Kobe and Shaq was vastly more popular. I think Jordan's career was the turning point - but however flashy his play, many younger or more casual fans are unaware that it was always undergirded by a grasp of the fundamentals of the game (thx to PJAX). They forget that a talented team that knew how to execute ('69 Knicks) defeated a much more talented team (Lakers: Wilt, Baylor, West) that was less fundamentally sound. I don't think you can entirely blame the media - entertainment is always more about flash than substance.

[lansdale]

As you probably know I don't have a team and consider myself fairly objective. If you look at my posts over the last three years I have nothing but praise for Obaka most times. He really has improved his mid range shot over that period of time that makes him a strong third option. In the NBA without a player like that the chance to win a championship are slim. You can argue San Antonio but they have five third options its what makes them a championship calibre team. Getting back to Ibaka if he tried it lets say two times a game it would be interesting to see how the opposition's defense plays him. He would always have the option to kick it out there's a decent chance somebody would be somewhat open even if it was a cut. My point is I think he can work harder in the off season. I know he does a lot of charitable work and I'm big on that but my belief is he can be a possible top ten player if he puts in the work. People criticized Durant for working out with LBJ but it has paid off with an MVP that should have been unanimous in my opinion.


http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2014-04-12/serge-ibaka-block-playoffs-donate-to-unicef-charity-okc-thunder-oklahoma-city

I posted before the playoffs started or shortly after they began that the "great" ones have to go the distance now. This was the finals for both teams till Ibaka got injured. This was the series that almost any fan who "loves" basketball wanted to see. Every time they went out for a blow (that I can remember) S.A. extended basically sucking out the wind from OKC. I realize they were tired and I posted that but without either one of them on the floor their chances are dim. The only hope is Fisher, Jackson, or Butler go on fire that can happen on any single night. Adams is thick as a brick but he's a rookie and even asking to fill 50% of Ibaka's shoes isn't fair.

Westbrook has had three knee injuries I realize that. Look at the minutes he played against Memphis even though there were lots of five minute overtimes. But he is the best hope for OKC to get fairly easy points with his ability to "attack" the rim. Shorten his minutes and the season can become a huge disappointment. They have a great GM and a great roster but its time for the two stars left to leave it all on the court. The positive is they get three full days rest before returning to the every other day format.

This took me a long time to write because of my back hope you enjoyed my analysis a little bit. :)

Hi Canarsie,

I do appreciate the effort it required for you to write this post. Back injuries are the worst. However, I believe I'm still going with my original opinion. Maybe we can just agree to disagree on the issue of motivation in athletes.

Hope your back gets better.

Best,

lansdale

[Canarsie]

You don't consider Duncan and Parker to be superstars? Obviously Duncan is in the twilight of his career, but he certainly looked like a superstar in the first half of game 1.

The team I root for is the Bulls, but when they aren't alive, I root for the Spurs. Just a great organization and coach, and they do things right. As for that lack of championship talk, I think they will put that to rest in the next month. And 2007 isn't THAT long ago. Not when you have one team buying up 3 of the top free agents in years.

You answered my position didn't you see the (14) in parentheses. I don't think Parker is a superstar in the Spurs system but definitely a HOFer. Go back to my posts about pop see how much I think of him. In fact go back in this thread I stated that Miami would lose to the Spurs. I don't have a team try to keep things on an even keel.


The Spurs were bounced twice in the first round that's not a way to grow a fan base. 2007 is a long time ago if it was the team that bought the three players you would be the first online saying so. It's not their fault that they figured out a way to beat the system the NBA has tightened free agency so that probably won't happen again. I remember one sports talk host being incensed and stated "they fooled us!!!". Those three became an organization and a brilliant one at that. This is coming from a guy who would rather every team did it the Spurs and Thunders "way" but that's not the way the CBA is written. If you could ask the commissioner under truth serum would he rather have in the finals S.A. would not be the answer because of ratings.

As far as the fan base lets use CJ's input if S.A. beats (if it happens) the Thunder. I say he roots against the Heat but no way does he root for the team that bounces them out of the playoffs. I'n a Red Sox fan no way in a million years wouls I root for the Yankees. But I would surely hope they lose because my allegiance is with the the Red Sox.

[cj]

As far as the fan base lets use CJ's input if S.A. beats (if it happens) the Thunder. I say he roots against the Heat but no way does he root for the team that bounces them out of the playoffs. I'n a Red Sox fan no way in a million years wouls I root for the Yankees. But I would surely hope they lose because my allegiance is with the the Red Sox.

I would root for the Spurs against most teams. I have no dislike of them. The same would have went for Memphis. I would not root for the Clippers or Rockets against the Heat. I would pretty much any other team.

[Canarsie]

Hi Canarsie,

I do appreciate the effort it required for you to write this post. Back injuries are the worst. However, I believe I'm still going with my original opinion. Maybe we can just agree to disagree on the issue of motivation in athletes.

Hope your back gets better.

Best,

lansdale

I respect everyones opinion who knows basketball its what makes the sport great. If your a Thunder fan it is fairly obvious you watch more games when they are playing than I do. I'm just big on working hard in the offseason In ESPN's bad boys Jordan admitted that if it wasn't for the Pistons physicality beating them, that made him work much harder getting stronger. Everyone knows the results of that regimen.

Thanks about the back started using a chiropractor again and have a little better feeling in my hands and arms.

[Canarsie]

I would root for the Spurs against most teams. I have no dislike of them. The same would have went for Memphis. I would not root for the Clippers or Rockets against the Heat. I would pretty much any other team.

Ok I respect that. Now lets replace the Heat with the Bulls.

[magwell]

This game should have broken the Pacers spirit.......Go Heat

[Tee]

Serge Ibaka going to play in Game 3? Looks as if he is wilingl to give it a go.

[lansdale]

Looks like Serge Ibaka will be back in the OKC lineup tonight, apparently against the advice of his doctor and coach. If the injury is as serious as first declared, can only hope that he doesn't do the kind of permanent damage to his leg that could cripple or end his career. Everybody remembers Grant Hill and Penny Hardaway.

[cj]

Looks like Serge Ibaka will be back in the OKC lineup tonight, apparently against the advice of his doctor and coach. If the injury is as serious as first declared, can only hope that he doesn't do the kind of permanent damage to his leg that could cripple or end his career. Everybody remembers Grant Hill and Penny Hardaway.

This was a complete misrepresentation of the facts. Neither doctors nor the coach advised him not to play.

[Canarsie]

This was a complete misrepresentation of the facts. Neither doctors nor the coach advised him not to play.


When Brooks was interviewed by David Aldridge he stated that there were no minute restrictions on Ibaka. There were lots of conspiracy theories on Ibaka it can become humorous at times.

Seriously even if your a fan of the Spurs don't you want your complete roster to be beat theirs? I want to see both teams to play as close (at this time of year everyone is nicked up) to 100% as possible.

[lansdale]

This was a complete misrepresentation of the facts. Neither doctors nor the coach advised him not to play.

This is what I saw at the time on one of the sports/hoops site (sorry I didn't link), and posted here for confirmation or refutation, since it seemed pretty strange based on the way these situations are usually handled. Those only following TV coverage heard it announced upfront that Ibaka did have his doctors' okay, so just a meaningless wrinkle.

How did this happen? It seems that there was disconnect between the widespread agreement in the media (correct) that Ibaka would play and the lack of an official statement of the medical approval which Ibaka had said on the previous day that he was awaiting to determine his eligibility to play. Curious, I went back to check for any official statement yesterday, and found only one, on SB Nation at 7:30. So OKC didn't intend to make a statement until almost game time. Based on Ibaka's play, this would seem to support Pop's initial cynicism about Ibaka's absence for the remainder of the playoffs, and imply a measure of gamesmanship on the part of Presti. If so, props to Presti - worthy of Phil Jackson.

[cj]

This is what I saw at the time on one of the sports/hoops site (sorry I didn't link), and posted here for confirmation or refutation, since it seemed pretty strange based on the way these situations are usually handled. Those only following TV coverage heard it announced upfront that Ibaka did have his doctors' okay, so just a meaningless wrinkle.

How did this happen? It seems that there was disconnect between the widespread agreement in the media (correct) that Ibaka would play and the lack of an official statement of the medical approval which Ibaka had said on the previous day that he was awaiting to determine his eligibility to play. Curious, I went back to check for any official statement yesterday, and found only one, on SB Nation at 7:30. So OKC didn't intend to make a statement until almost game time. Based on Ibaka's play, this would seem to support Pop's initial cynicism about Ibaka's absence for the remainder of the playoffs, and imply a measure of gamesmanship on the part of Presti. If so, props to Presti - worthy of Phil Jackson.

One thing that has been iffy with the Thunder is the medical staff. Just in the short time they've been here, there have been numerous issues:


Jeff Green traded with heart issue, cost a draft pick (which Presti later recouped in the Harden trade to stick it to Stern)
Tyson Chandler failed physical, then goes on to key title run for Dallas
The Westbrook situation, needing 2d/3d surgeries
Serge announced out for the playoffs, then misses only two games
I'm forgetting a couple too, I'll update when I remember.

[lansdale]

One thing that has been iffy with the Thunder is the medical staff. Just in the short time they've been here, there have been numerous issues:

Jeff Green traded with heart issue, cost a draft pick (which Presti later recouped in the Harden trade to stick it to Stern)
Tyson Chandler failed physical, then goes on to key title run for Dallas
The Westbrook situation, needing 2d/3d surgeries
Serge announced out for the playoffs, then misses only two games
I'm forgetting a couple too, I'll update when I remember.

Often difficult to understand what's behind a number of the decisions coming out of the OKC front office. The first two instances you cite sound like simple incompetence, but I think the latter two are possibly beyond anyone's control; after all, both Kobe and Rose, superstars playing in large markets, and especially in Kobe's case, access to the best medical care money could buy, went through the same experience as Westbrook. Explosive players like this put extraordinary demands on their bodies, and after some key injuries, they're never the same.

We can only hope that Ibaka's doesn't exacerbate his injury and completely blow out the calf muscle in the course of the playoffs. I have to believe that Presti wouldn't jeopardize the career of a star player so crucial to the success of the franchise if the medical staff told him this was a serious risk.

[magwell]

This game should have broken the Pacers spirit.......Go Heat Now this should have broken their heart.......;)

[Canarsie]

This thread has become a really good read. Thanks guys :ThmbUp:

[ronsmac]

I'm really hoping Miami can win Wednesday and Okc and Spurs go 7. We need Birdman and Wade at full strength for the finals. Just making 4 finals in a row will be an amazing accomplishment. 3 titles in a row would put them in legendary status.

[thaskalos]

Either the coupling of Ibaka and the home field edge is worth 50 points...or this is the most obvious ploy to extend the series to seven games that I've ever seen. The two best teams in the league...and they can't give us a single game worth watching?

[cj]

Either the coupling of Ibaka and the home field edge is worth 50 points...or this is the most obvious ploy to extend the series to seven games that I've ever seen. The two best teams in the league...and they can't give us a single game worth watching?

I enjoyed attending the last two very much.

[PressThePace]

At the game tonight....wow! What an atmosphere for playoff basketball!!

The difference Ibaka makes is so obvious. It's tough for the Spurs to go small and have an advantage as well. When RW and KD are both engaged defensively, this team just takes it to another level. As a Thunder fan, I'm still weary of the emotional toll this takes to just pull even in the series. They still need to get one in SA.

[Canarsie]

Either the coupling of Ibaka and the home field edge is worth 50 points...or this is the most obvious ploy to extend the series to seven games that I've ever seen. The two best teams in the league...and they can't give us a single game worth watching?

There is always the game within a game lots happens besides going through the net. Caron Butler drained a three at S.A. and was CLASSY enough not to use his signature long distance display because they were getting blown out. You would be surprised how that rubs off on teammates especially when things are going against them.

Even though all four games were blowouts I thoroughly enjoys the coaches talking to their players during timeouts. Not everyone can say the right thing when a run is going against them. Brooks gets killed but his team is always paying attention unlike a J.R. Smith who walked away from his coach helping him to get fired.

OKC's home court and its fans are a huge edge creating energy for their team. I've never been there but most reporters and players say its one of the top three in helping a team get its mojo going. Its an important part of the game even though its not on the court.

Yesterday pop cleared his bench and replaced his starters. While the game was a blowout I still watched till the end to see how they responded. What actually happened was Brooks kept Durant and Westbrook in till the last minute. Personally I think it was a huge mistake but once again I'n posting from P.A. and he makes seven figures. So when game five starts the beginning is very important to the Spurs to see if OKC has the same intensity or the Spurs feed off their crowd.

All of these things are going through my head even though the game was unwatchable from a competitive standpoint.

[cj]

There is always the game within a game lots happens besides going through the net. Caron Butler drained a three at S.A. and was CLASSY enough not to use his signature long distance display because they were getting blown out. You would be surprised how that rubs off on teammates especially when things are going against them.

Even though all four games were blowouts I thoroughly enjoys the coaches talking to their players during timeouts. Not everyone can say the right thing when a run is going against them. Brooks gets killed but his team is always paying attention unlike a J.R. Smith who walked away from his coach helping him to get fired.

OKC's home court and its fans are a huge edge creating energy for their team. I've never been there but most reporters and players say its one of the top three in helping a team get its mojo going. Its an important part of the game even though its not on the court.

Yesterday pop cleared his bench and replaced his starters. While the game was a blowout I still watched till the end to see how they responded. What actually happened was Brooks kept Durant and Westbrook in till the last minute. Personally I think it was a huge mistake but once again I'n posting from P.A. and he makes seven figures. So when game five starts the beginning is very important to the Spurs to see if OKC has the same intensity or the Spurs feed off their crowd.

All of these things are going through my head even though the game was unwatchable from a competitive standpoint.

I've been to games all over the league. I haven't been to Golden State or Portland, and those are the only two arenas I could imagine being close to OKC.

I don't think Brooks had much choice but to keep those guys in. The Spurs bench played really well. OKC just isn't that deep, they are a top heavy team. It was a 12 point game with 4 minutes to go. That is not a huge lead in the NBA. Don't believe me? Ask the Clippers about that re. G5 at OKC. I don't think a few extra minutes means much at this point, not with a young team.

Westbrook was simply unbelievable last night on both ends of the floor. I'm not ready to proclaim a series win, it will be very tough, but the Spurs are certainly wondering what the hell just happened. Parker looks lost, Duncan ineffective, Green invisble, Leonard has disappeared. Home court can cure a lot of ills though as we just saw.

One thing that I respect about the Thunder is they are never out of it, they just don't quit. They've been written off at least three times in these playoffs already. They were down 2-1 and 3-2 to Memphis. They were dismissed after the Clippers blew them out in Game 1. They were in deep trouble in Game 5 against the Clippers. Then, virtually nobody gave them a prayer after the first two in San Antonio.

[lansdale]

Either the coupling of Ibaka and the home field edge is worth 50 points...or this is the most obvious ploy to extend the series to seven games that I've ever seen. The two best teams in the league...and they can't give us a single game worth watching?

Every long-term NBA fan has seen this many times. That's why the veteran starters phoned in it for these two games. Even though Pop will never admit it, he knew it was a waste of energy to use them; if they had put on Spurs uniforms, the '92 Dream Team wasn't going to win these two in OKC. Durant and Westbrook combined free throws for the game in OKC: 39. Tony Parker free throws for the games in OKC: 0. The real telltale sign of league involvement is if this Game 5 is a repeat of the Game 5 officiating fiasco in LA. We'll just have to wait until tomorrow. Current NBA title future odds: Heat - 10/11, Spurs 2/1, OKC - 9/2.

[magwell]

Would be great to see OKC and the Heat, for all the money..........:cool:

[cj]

Every long-term NBA fan has seen this many times. That's why the veteran starters phoned in it for these two games. Even though Pop will never admit it, he knew it was a waste of energy to use them; if they had put on Spurs uniforms, the '92 Dream Team wasn't going to win these two in OKC. Durant and Westbrook combined free throws for the game in OKC: 39. Tony Parker free throws for the games in OKC: 0. The real telltale sign of league involvement is if this Game 5 is a repeat of the Game 5 officiating fiasco in LA. We'll just have to wait until tomorrow. Current NBA title future odds: Heat - 10/11, Spurs 2/1, OKC - 9/2.

I don't know how you guys can believe this conspiracy stuff and still follow the sport.

[Valuist]

Would be great to see OKC and the Heat, for all the money..........:cool:

I'd personally rather see the Spurs vs the Pacers, with the Spurs winning it all.

[ronsmac]

Would be great to see OKC and the Heat, for all the money..........:cool:
I'm scared of Okc. I'd rather Miami play San antonio. That's an easier series.

[magwell]

I'm scared of Okc. I'd rather Miami play San antonio. That's an easier series. I agree , but since there is a good chance I'm going to all three Miami games June 10-12-17, I'd like to see Durant and Westbrook play up close vs.Lebron and Wade............;)

[thaskalos]

I don't know how you guys can believe this conspiracy stuff and still follow the sport.

For the same reason that poker legend Jack Strauss was found seated in a no-limit poker game, where two card cheats were known to operate. When asked what he was doing sitting in a crooked game, he replied:

"What can I do? It's the only game in town."

[cj]

For the same reason that poker legend Jack Strauss was found seated in a no-limit poker game, where two card cheats were known to operate. When asked what he was doing sitting in a crooked game, he replied:

"What can I do? It's the only game in town."

I hear ya. I just think it makes for a good story, but I don't buy it. The clearly better team won all four games. They could have let the players call their own fouls, the outcome wasn't changing. The NBA would be dead if it was ever revealed there was a conspiracy to alter the outcome of games. The risk is way to great.

I absolutely think referees could improve, and a lot. There is no excuse for some of the horrible calls or non-calls I see. But I don't think there is any agenda. It is a tough sport to officiate.

[magwell]

Without Lebron the Heat are the Hawks.........

[Valuist]

I'm scared of Okc. I'd rather Miami play San antonio. That's an easier series.

The oddsmakers disagree with you.

[Canarsie]

I've been to games all over the league. I haven't been to Golden State or Portland, and those are the only two arenas I could imagine being close to OKC.

I don't think Brooks had much choice but to keep those guys in. The Spurs bench played really well. OKC just isn't that deep, they are a top heavy team. It was a 12 point game with 4 minutes to go. That is not a huge lead in the NBA. Don't believe me? Ask the Clippers about that re. G5 at OKC. I don't think a few extra minutes means much at this point, not with a young team.

Westbrook was simply unbelievable last night on both ends of the floor. I'm not ready to proclaim a series win, it will be very tough, but the Spurs are certainly wondering what the hell just happened. Parker looks lost, Duncan ineffective, Green invisble, Leonard has disappeared. Home court can cure a lot of ills though as we just saw.

One thing that I respect about the Thunder is they are never out of it, they just don't quit. They've been written off at least three times in these playoffs already. They were down 2-1 and 3-2 to Memphis. They were dismissed after the Clippers blew them out in Game 1. They were in deep trouble in Game 5 against the Clippers. Then, virtually nobody gave them a prayer after the first two in San Antonio.

Having no team is one reason I don't throw anyone out. Most of my comments always include the disclaimer "(if they win)". Anyone with half a brain won't do that look what happened when Bosh (hardly gets any credit) tipped the ball hoping his side would come up with it. OKC made a bunch of "4s" during their run to the conference finals they deserve credit along with the opponent being "dumb". I even remember Durant fouling somebody from 70 feet away as time was expiring can't remember the game. Crazy things happen Van Gundy still wants to throw up when they talk about Reggie Miller.

We disagree on the rest, that's ok this is a sports discussion. Its just not Tuesday lots of energy was consumed against Memphis and the paper Clips. Even if Westbrook has an off game I'm not a "I told you so" kind of guy. It makes me want to throw up when a announcer or analyst say "I said this" yet when they are wrong most don't say a peep.

[Canarsie]

I don't know how you guys can believe this conspiracy stuff and still follow the sport.

An ex con once told me this around 1970 and I have never forgotten it.

"the easiest thing to do is rob a bank and the easiest way to get caught is to rob a bank with someone".

In this day and age nothing done is rarely private that's all the NBA would need now. I believe the refs give high priority to the superstars but they earned it over time. Nobody including LBJ gets a bunch of calls the first few years they are in the league.

[Canarsie]

I hear ya. I just think it makes for a good story, but I don't buy it. The clearly better team won all four games. They could have let the players call their own fouls, the outcome wasn't changing. The NBA would be dead if it was ever revealed there was a conspiracy to alter the outcome of games. The risk is way to great.

I absolutely think referees could improve, and a lot. There is no excuse for some of the horrible calls or non-calls I see. But I don't think there is any agenda. It is a tough sport to officiate.

In the NBA a refs job is almost impossible to do these guys are like surgeons even going to the eighth guy on a team. The action is so fast the game would suffer in popularity if it slowed down for too many foul calls. Same goes for the NFL and holding.

Everybody screams but when a ref knows he really blew it there's no doubt in my mind there is a make up call and rightfully so.

Also they have to be doing a fairly decent job I bet 95% of America couldn't name ten referees. That's the way it should be imo they should hardly be noticed.

[cj]

Funny what reputation can do. If Scott Brooks yanked his starters that early and then didn't bring them back in when the game was within reach, he'd be roasted. Pop does it and nobody says a peep.

I've seen that scenario play out often, the bench guys run out of gas and can't continue the run. Why not bring back in the stars, who are obviously going to be fresh, and take a shot?

[lansdale]

I don't know how you guys can believe this conspiracy stuff and still follow the sport.

I think the wide range of variance in NBA refereeing is simply a mundane truth. That much of it is predictable is known to most NBA fans. Everyone (even you, I think) acknowledge 'superstar' calls and is aware of 'home cooking'. And for those who looked at the Donaghy interview I posted, it's clear that many referees not only have unconscious biases, but conscious preferences about who is and who isn't getting calls. I don't think there's much dispute about any of this, and I've always (and assume most longtime fans also do) used these filters to explain what are clearly bad and non-calls when I'm watching a game.

I think I've mentioned how much I like OKC's stars a few times here, and I think OKC may truly become a great team, but I know I'm not the only one who thinks they're getting something beyond typical 'home cooking' when they step on to a court now - and I don't mean just in the post-season.
But when we do get to the post-season, I think there's a strong desire on the part of fans for the possibility of a Durant/Lebron Finals. As I think SRU mentioned, the NBA is somewhat of a cross between an exhibition and a competition. For most of its fanbase, the former is far more entertaining. So although I'm not positing a recurrence of the 2002 rigging of the WCF by the league office, I think it's impossible to deny that it might have some influence on the outcome of these games.

BTW, hoping for a better game tonight than the last four. I believe whoever wins this one will take the championship. Vegas line: Spurs - 1/2, OKC - 8/5.

[Stillriledup]

I don't know how you guys can believe this conspiracy stuff and still follow the sport.

Same reason people watch the WWF.

Also, why is it just assumed that the results in the NBA aren't scripted? What's the difference if they are? Its an entertainment organization, their job is to provide the best entertainment they can, why would they just let the results fall randomly when they can control the results thru the refs?

[lansdale]

Same reason people watch the WWF.

Also, why is it just assumed that the results in the NBA aren't scripted? What's the difference if they are? Its an entertainment organization, their job is to provide the best entertainment they can, why would they just let the results fall randomly when they can control the results thru the refs?

Hi SRU,

I know that many people feel this way, but I don't believe it's all scripted - I believe that most games are (relatively) fairly officiated. I think that only when a given game features a high number of dubious calls should we start to ask what's going on - as with the 2002 WCF Game 6, and to a lesser degree, for me at least, Game 5 of the Clips/OKC series.

Cheers,

lansdale

[lansdale]

I don't know how you guys can believe this conspiracy stuff and still follow the sport.

Hate to go full tinfoil hat on this one, but Tony Brothers, the head referee for the now notorious Game 5 of the Clips/OKC series, is on the crew for tonight's Game 5 in San Antonio. As we know, OKC is 12-0 when he officiates. Will tonight's game make it 13-0? I'm going to make the arbitrary OKC freethrow O/U number 28. If it goes over, OKC will win - triggering a federal investigation ;-).

[cj]

Hate to go full tinfoil hat on this one, but Tony Brothers, the head referee for the now notorious Game 5 of the Clips/OKC series, is on the crew for tonight's Game 5 in San Antonio. As we know, OKC is 12-0 when he officiates. Will tonight's game make it 13-0? I'm going to make the arbitrary OKC freethrow O/U number 28. If it goes over, OKC will win - triggering a federal investigation ;-).

OKC wins like what, 75% anyway? The record doesn't mean much. Brothers has made plenty of awful calls against the Thunder.

Good game so far. Pop adjusted, Brooks hasn't. He can't keep playing Perkins, need Adams or Ibaka playing the 5 if San Antonio is going to play small like they did the 1st half.

That said, I have no faith he will adjust. Game 6, sure, but Brooks sucks at doing stuff on the fly.