Makers and takers

[JustRalph]

http://www.cnsnews.com/commentary/terence-p-jeffrey/86m-full-time-private-sector-workers-sustain-148m-benefit-takers

Interesting piece. The problem I have with it? It uses census Data. Government gathered data. I personally build in a 20% margin of error

Which way? Who knows........

[mostpost]

http://www.cnsnews.com/commentary/terence-p-jeffrey/86m-full-time-private-sector-workers-sustain-148m-benefit-takers

Interesting piece. The problem I have with it? It uses census Data. Government gathered data. I personally build in a 20% margin of error

Which way? Who knows........
How about a 66% margin of error? On the low side. BLS shows 143.5 million people employed in March 2014. That includes government workers because whether you like it or not, government workers earn their money. So do part time workers whether public or private sector.

Lie number two that the worthless Mr. Jeffrey told is that people receiving benefits do not work. Many of the people on Medicaid have full time jobs. Many of the people who use food stamps work full time. People receiving SSI had full time jobs which illness or injury now prevent them from doing.

Then the piece of garbage includes people on Social Security on his list of takers. There has to be a special place in hell for Mr. Jeffrey

[fast4522]

OK, My bad I posted same link at end of Senate Dems before I saw this.

It is not garbage Mosty, mutiny is closer than you think fool.

[HUSKER55]

you do understand that those wages are paid with taxes?

you do understand that there is no way for the taxpayer to force the government to reduce the payroll?

You do understand that government works for US and not the other way around?

[Tom]

you do understand that those wages are paid with taxes?

you do understand that there is no way for the taxpayer to force the government to reduce the payroll?

You do understand that government works for US and not the other way around?

I don't think he has a clue.

[Hank]

How about a 66% margin of error? On the low side. BLS shows 143.5 million people employed in March 2014. That includes government workers because whether you like it or not, government workers earn their money. So do part time workers whether public or private sector.

Lie number two that the worthless Mr. Jeffrey told is that people receiving benefits do not work. Many of the people on Medicaid have full time jobs. Many of the people who use food stamps work full time. People receiving SSI had full time jobs which illness or injury now prevent them from doing.

Then the piece of garbage includes people on Social Security on his list of takers. There has to be a special place in hell for Mr. Jeffrey

There is no hope for these poor souls.They react and think as their masters train them to,Showing no capacity to think for themselves,much like Pavlov's dog they foam at the mouth on cue about the cost of food stamps or what have you.But Mention the 85 Billion per month in WELFARE wall street has been receiving for the last few years and they wag their tails. Continuous Ideological masturbation has destroyed their minds,granted this was not a BIG job to begin with,lol but still the effect is apparent.

[Tom]

Pretty much a pussy reply, Hank.
Change the subject, incorrectly, and ignore the facts in the article.
No one I know here is endorsing corporate welfare. You pretend to cite facts to avoid the truth here. Most I know of here have all been in favor of allowing business to fail - it is YOUR BOY who is chicken-shit to man up and do it. Bet is has something to do with him being bought and paid for by Wall Street. No one has been a better friend of Wall Street than O'bumbler.

[Clocker]

How about a 66% margin of error? On the low side. BLS shows 143.5 million people employed in March 2014. That includes government workers because whether you like it or not, government workers earn their money.

You are confused and emotional about this because you do not understand basic economics. The point is not that government workers do not earn their money. The point is that government workers do not produce wealth, and to pay its workers and its "clients", the government must consume wealth.

Only the private sector can create wealth, through production by labor and capital. The government produces nothing, it consumes wealth produced by the private sector. The government consumes wealth that could be used for other purposes, including reinvested to produce more wealth.

The bigger the government, the more wealth (resources) consumed. The more resources the government consumes, the few the resources (labor and capital) available for producing more wealth.

"Takers" is not necessarily judgmental, but it is descriptive. If you are consuming more than you are producing, you are a net taker. The point is that if consumption surpasses production, the economy collapses. And we are moving in that direction.

[Clocker]

Mention the 85 Billion per month in WELFARE wall street has been receiving for the last few years and they wag their tails.

I assume that you are referring to the continued Federal Reserve policy of pumping money into the system is an absurdly misguided effort to stimulate the economy. That policy is strongly supported by Obama and his advisers who have no clue as to how the economy works.

While the policy does nothing for the economy, it does wonders for stock prices. And of course, those that make their money in the market care little about the impact on the real economy as long as asset prices are propped up. For people playing the market without regard to the real economy, that one is a bipartisan winner.

[fast4522]

First you have to examine why our economy has been so resilient in normal times compared to other economy's around the world. A very large component is travel, transportation can be a huge percentage of ours as well as spilling over into other economy's. The problem is that most can not get enough ahead these days to take a real vacation. When you combine transportation and health care industry's your talking over 50% of the overall United States economy. This is a tight grip that no President should be allowed to screw with. People lie all day long every day, but the math never does. Uncontrolled spending today will result in your kids and their kids never able to afford to take a vacation, what a perfect scheme to keep the American worker in his place. Michelle Obama's next 20 + million dollar vacation is when?

[porchy44]

I definitely don't consider people who paid into Social Security all their lives "takers". That is what makes the article "suspect". With that said, I do know some people receiving Social Security Disability who "gamed the system and don't deserve it. They are "takers".

I have said for years more and more more people would be "on the dole", meaning unemployed and need of state benefit. This was inevitable
due to "Free Trade".


It states at the end of the article. "Please make a tax-deductible gift to CNSNews.com today."
I guess the website is a taker too.

[Robert Goren]

First you have to examine why our economy has been so resilient in normal times compared to other economy's around the world. A very large component is travel, transportation can be a huge percentage of ours as well as spilling over into other economy's. The problem is that most can not get enough ahead these days to take a real vacation. When you combine transportation and health care industry's your talking over 50% of the overall United States economy. This is a tight grip that no President should be allowed to screw with. People lie all day long every day, but the math never does. Uncontrolled spending today will result in your kids and their kids never able to afford to take a vacation, what a perfect scheme to keep the American worker in his place. Michelle Obama's next 20 + million dollar vacation is when?You are right that there is a push to force more Americans and their families toward the bottom economically. But is not Obama who is doing it. It is the attitude of American business that has developed in the last 30 years or so that long term employment and experience beyond a few months is not valuable enough to be reward the way it was in the past. The last few years I worked, "parties" for people who had been there for 10 years, 20 years, whatever that were common when I first entered the work force were rare. People these days are changing jobs for a quarter an hour raise because they know they will never see that quarter where they are at now. Experienced is too often looked at today as dead wood unless they are a super achiever.

[fast4522]

Off the wall as usual, the economy was or should have been priority one for this administration. The individual always has to remain in the critical path just to remain relevant in today's job market. There will always be party's and fifty cent raises for those who add value to the business. The problem is things always a beginning and also an end, stick around for the later and there are no shortages of folks crying in the beer. The harder truth is the uneducated can have virtually no expectations for their life, business and company's will only do what is in the best interest of its owners or shareholders. What you have in your cornflakes is on you entirely.

No shoes needed.

[JustRalph]

People these days are changing jobs for a quarter an hour raise because they know they will never see that quarter where they are at now. Experienced is too often looked at today as dead wood unless they are a super achiever.

So, super achiever guy shouldn't be rewarded? It's not the change in American business. It's the glut of available workers, for low level jobs. There are hundreds of applicants who will take your job away in a heartbeat, due to terrible economic conditions.

There are still valuable employees who are retained with raises and incentives. But they must stand out. If you are working with young people today, you know that you cannot expect them to know anything. And I mean anything.

They learn very little at home. My wife had to explain how to use a broom to an 18 yr old the other day. He actually told her he had seen his mom use one, but had never held one in his hand before? I had to explain a pair of vise grips to a 20 yr old recently.

In contrast, I had an A/C repair guy out to my house last night. They were repairing a capacitor and motor starter on the condenser outside. The repair guy brought his 14 yr old son with him. It was near dusk. I was quite impressed when I noticed dad holding the flashlight while the son actually did the work. We discussed how he was training his son to have some mechanical knowledge. Btw, they were headed home to put in an hour or so in the garage rebuilding the 68 Camaro that golden boy was rebuilding with his dad. He has 16 months until he gets his license according to him, and he wants it ready to go on day one.

This kid is going to be very far ahead.

[Clocker]

The repair guy brought his 14 yr old son with him. It was near dusk. I was quite impressed when I noticed dad holding the flashlight while the son actually did the work.

I call BS on this. There is no way a 14 yr old can work on an AC unit and text at the same time. And if a 14 yr old is awake, he is either eating or texting or both.

[JustRalph]

I call BS on this. There is no way a 14 yr old can work on an AC unit and text at the same time. And if a 14 yr old is awake, he is either eating or texting or both.

Next time I'll take a video...... :lol:

[Robert Goren]

So, super achiever guy shouldn't be rewarded? It's not the change in American business. It's the glut of available workers, for low level jobs. There are hundreds of applicants who will take your job away in a heartbeat, due to terrible economic conditions.

There are still valuable employees who are retained with raises and incentives. But they must stand out. If you are working with young people today, you know that you cannot expect them to know anything. And I mean anything.

They learn very little at home. My wife had to explain how to use a broom to an 18 yr old the other day. He actually told her he had seen his mom use one, but had never held one in his hand before? I had to explain a pair of vise grips to a 20 yr old recently.

In contrast, I had an A/C repair guy out to my house last night. They were repairing a capacitor and motor starter on the condenser outside. The repair guy brought his 14 yr old son with him. It was near dusk. I was quite impressed when I noticed dad holding the flashlight while the son actually did the work. We discussed how he was training his son to have some mechanical knowledge. Btw, they were headed home to put in an hour or so in the garage rebuilding the 68 Camaro that golden boy was rebuilding with his dad. He has 16 months until he gets his license according to him, and he wants it ready to go on day one.

This kid is going to be very far ahead.Super achievers are special group and are treated by companies differently than other employees. We could easily have a long thread on them. They are an exception to what I say below.
My point is that the 18 year old and the 20 year old is valued same by most companies as a 50 year old who knows how to use a broom and a vice grip. In fact, many companies value the younger employees more. This is a change that has become part of our culture in the last 30 years. I am not saying it is right, only that it exist.

[elysiantraveller]

Super achievers are special group and are treated by companies differently than other employees. We could easily have a long thread on them. They are an exception to what I say below.
My point is that the 18 year old and the 20 year old is valued same by most companies as a 50 year old who knows how to use a broom and a vice grip. In fact, many companies value the younger employees more. This is a change that has become part of our culture in the last 30 years. I am not saying it is right, only that it exist.

The reason the group of super achievers is declining is the abundance of social safety nets. I'm not anti-safety net but its getting ridiculous in our society. To give an example I recently had to go on short-term disability for something. After 4 weeks off my doctor was actually shocked that I was adament about being released to return to work instead of maxing out my policy.

As far as your example it kind of supports Ralph's point that there is a surplus of labor out there. Why pay the older man more for his experience when the younger/hungrier worker will most likely be more efficient while doing the same work for less?

[Robert Goren]

The reason the group of super achievers is declining is the abundance of social safety nets. I'm not anti-safety net but its getting ridiculous in our society. To give an example I recently had to go on short-term disability for something. After 4 weeks off my doctor was actually shocked that I was adament about being released to return to work instead of maxing out my policy.

As far as your example it kind of supports Ralph's point that there is a surplus of labor out there. Why pay the older man more for his experience when the younger/hungrier worker will most likely be more efficient while doing the same work for less?What makes you think the group of super achievers is declining? I see no evidence of that in this part of the country. There maybe a small erosion of low level achievers into safety nets, but I don't see it with super achievers. But that probably does not effect much of anything since these people were not doing much anyhow. Maybe you have a different definition of super achievers than I do.
You are going to have to explain to me how younger worker who has to been shown how to use a broom is more efficient than somebody who already knows how to use one. Plus young and hungry is not something you see too often in the average worker today. Most young workers are clock watchers when it comes to quitting time. Not so much so when it comes to starting time.

[fast4522]

"Most young workers are clock watchers when it comes to quitting time. Not so much so when it comes to starting time."

Goren, Me thinks you would have a hard time qualifying as expert on anything.
Closer to the truth is those CVS,and Walgreen's popping up on every other corner is in most part to you. Those who live their life right and do not put anything in their mouth that should not enter go further in corporations, the rest they can't get out of the door faster for good. Age seems like a negative on the surface, but reality is a winning team player can be any age if he or she remains inside the critical path.