Thoroughbred racing and the Unabomber?

[Grits]

Turfwriter, West--this guy's coming unwrapped; he's crazier than a rat in a coffee can. He writes that horse racing reform can be likened to the Utopian desires of the Unabomber, while remaining bent in the belief that his friends, Asmussen and Blasi's lives have been destroyed.

(Maybe, simply, a slow day for ESPN.)

http://espn.go.com/horse-racing/story/_/id/10777270/road-rational-reform#comments

Does horse racing really want a reign of terror, or the chaos that would accompany federal involvement? As for the recent turmoil, does an ethical goal justify unethical methods? Does justice justify injustice? Even in the pursuit of a higher ideal, like Kaczynski's, if people are willing to destroy lives and careers with a semblance of prompt justice, are they any better than those they're so eager to banish?

[Robert Goren]

Just when you think you have heard it all, along comes something like this piece. How desperate are the opponents of change are getting.

[clocker7]

Many people have a Utopian vision for horse racing, an ideal permutation of the sport where all the racing surfaces are perfectly safe and fair, all the horses lavishly loved and all the people unimpeachably honorable. Medication at this ideal racetrack is rarely needed, of course, never used on race day and dispensed only by Utopia's official veterinarians from the Utopian pharmacy. (Bettors, by the way, are all cordial, polite and properly attired.
I LOVE that editorial. How accurate his assessment is!

These activists don't realize how radical they are or how few numbers they constitute.

[Robert Goren]

I LOVE that editorial. How accurate his assessment is!

These activists don't realize how radical they are or how few numbers they constitute.Those numbers include just about everyone who bets on a horse who is not a horseman.

[clocker7]

Those numbers include just about everyone who bets on a horse who is not a horseman.
That's a stretch. A laugh, actually.

I suggest that you get out of these tiny horse racing message board echo chambers and talk to real people. You are getting a false impression by listening to the same old gals with multiple accounts.

[burnsy]

http://www.jockeyclub.com/Default.asp?section=Resources&area=0&story=699

I'll just keep reposting this article when people say its just a few "internet people" and not real people that see the problems. Dinny Phipps doesn't know WTF he's talking about....yeah ok. But this article has its good points and bad. It will never be utopia, nothing is, that's life. Maybe someone should inform our govt and the political morons this. They seem to think the US can make the world a utopia by running it. But you have to have some system of enforcement, at least many tracks are going in the right direction......but there should be no "foot dragging". People don't really care about high win percentages.....until the jackasses are caught cheating. You can't sit in denial, cover people, let people off and give one guy a 10 year suspension like he's the only one or the whipping boy. Multiple offenses should translate to multiple years. Plus, you should not denigrate your customers appearance or manners. Has nothing to do with this issue. You take their money don't you? This is the "smokescreen" bettors have been getting for years....."They are just dumb gamblers (horse players), their opinion doesn't count." "See how some of them dress and act?" That's BS and an excuse. Sweeping it under rug and saying its just a bunch of gals with multiple internet accounts......will have the government at your gates...guaranteed some day. All these articles and talk saying there's nothing wrong just digs a deeper ditch. Because once the government sinks their teeth in...they are like pit bulls...they won't go away. Hell, horse racing will create a whole new "enforcement industry" for them. Like I said they already spend a fortune on trying to run the world...racing will be a "new" mom and pop operation full of federal regulators........:lol:

[clocker7]

..will have the government at your gates...guaranteed some day. All these articles and talk saying there's nothing wrong just digs a deeper ditch. Because once the government sinks their teeth in...they are like pit bulls...they won't go away. Hell, horse racing will create a whole new "enforcement industry" for them. Like I said they already spend a fortune on trying to run the world...racing will be a "new" mom and pop operation full of federal regulators........:lol:
Maybe the BLM guys will be willing to take on an easier task?

Look, this site is full of intelligent people (from what I can tell, quite a few have science/technical backgrounds like mine). Yet, one comes across the same old collection of animal welfare/federal intervention proponents who like to portray and proclaim themselves to be the ruling majority. It gets tired after awhile. C'mon, stop joshing yourselves.

Now, maybe Robert Goren actually has canvassed most OTB sites and gotten ahold of wagering account information to be able to make the sweeping claim that all bettors are on his side. But I call BS. Absent of any real data to the contrary, I'll remain on the side of the editorial writer who calls for incremental reform, rather than the radical transgender operation with mastectomy that the noisy few are calling for.

And please don't get honked because someone disagrees with you.

[thaskalos]

That's a stretch. A laugh, actually.

I suggest that you get out of these tiny horse racing message board echo chambers and talk to real people. You are getting a false impression by listening to the same old gals with multiple accounts.
This is getting to the point where we can identify some of the posters without looking at their usernames...

[Robert Goren]

That's a stretch. A laugh, actually.

I suggest that you get out of these tiny horse racing message board echo chambers and talk to real people. You are getting a false impression by listening to the same old gals with multiple accounts.They have already chased away so many "real people" that they need to take money away from other forms of gambling to operate. Just keep telling yourselves what great shape the sport is in and try to figure out where your next source of outside of the sport revenue is coming from. You better get to work on that because the way things are going it you are going to need it soon.

[clocker7]

They have already chased away so many "real people" that they need to take money away from other forms of gambling to operate. Just keep telling yourselves what great shape the sport is in and try to figure out where your next source of outside of the sport revenue is coming from. You better get to work on that because the way things are going it you are going to need it soon.
Name one poster that says that horse racing is in great shape.

It's laughable misrepresentation like that which has ruined your credibility.

[burnsy]

Maybe the BLM guys will be willing to take on an easier task?

Look, this site is full of intelligent people (from what I can tell, quite a few have science/technical backgrounds like mine). Yet, one comes across the same old collection of animal welfare/federal intervention proponents who like to portray and proclaim themselves to be the ruling majority. It gets tired after awhile. C'mon, stop joshing yourselves.

Now, maybe Robert Goren actually has canvassed most OTB sites and gotten ahold of wagering account information to be able to make the sweeping claim that all bettors are on his side. But I call BS. Absent of any real data to the contrary, I'll remain on the side of the editorial writer who calls for incremental reform, rather than the radical transgender operation with mastectomy that the noisy few are calling for.

And please don't get honked because someone disagrees with you.


I could care less when people disagree with me.......the more that do, it usually means I'm right. I call that making money. Most people would rather look the other way...its much easier and takes no skin.

I agree with most of what you said and some of that article...but taking cheap shots at your customers makes me question his authenticity. You can make your point without that. Horse racing will NEVER learn that the customer is ALWAYS right. They teach that to kids at McDonalds for crying out loud. Plus, increments should not be measured in decades....that's how long people have been getting caught and getting away with it. Just like Mr. Phipps says himself........"Enough is enough"........not my words.

[clocker7]

I could care less when people disagree with me.......the more that do, it usually means I'm right. Most people would rather look the other way...its much easier and takes no skin.

I agree with most of what you said and some of that article...but taking cheap shots at your customers makes me question his authenticity. You can make your point without that. Horse racing will NEVER learn that the customer is ALWAYS right. They teach that to kids at McDonalds for crying out loud. Plus, increments should not be measured in decades....that's how long people have been getting caught and getting away with it. Just like Mr. Phipps says himself........"Enough is enough"........not my words.
I'll never meanmouth people like Mr. Phipps that pour money into this sport. But, at the same time, he is in the minority. His plea is a result of being so. Had there been a consensus that a Hail Mary pass like federal oversight was beneficial, it would have already happened.

But many people are leery of the feds. Their track record scares most people, and rightfully so. They are not a benign element anymore.

[Grits]

Clocker7 wrote:
I'll remain on the side of the editorial writer who calls for incremental reform, rather than the radical transgender operation with mastectomy that the noisy few are calling for.

Not in any conversation, here, is there a need for words or thoughts such as these that you have written! NONE. I hope others have seen exactly what you are, and what you are about.

You don't deserve the privilege of participating at Pace Advantage.

[riskman]

Absent of any real data to the contrary, I'll remain on the side of the editorial writer who calls for incremental reform, rather than the radical transgender operation with mastectomy that the noisy few are calling for.

And please don't get honked because someone disagrees with you.

You are as big a drama queen as the writer. Whatever pulls your chain.

[Tom]

I suggest that you get out of these tiny horse racing message board echo chambers and talk to real people. You are getting a false impression by listening to the same old gals with multiple accounts.

If that is the case, how are those two low-life's lives been destroyed?

[Cholly]

West’s piece is really just suck-up journalism, but since he makes a charge comparing federal regulation to a “reign of terror”...the issue here is not government control vs. no-government-control; rather it is: Should horse racing continue under state controls (or the lack thereof), or risk the change of shifting some of the regulatory authority from state governments to the Feds.

State legislators are something I’m familiar with. While attending the University of Texas, I worked as a waiter at a 4-star restaurant close to the capitol building. Normally a refined establishment serving excellent food, when the legislature came into session it assumed all the charm of a back-woods cock fight. They may have had “Sen.” or “Rep.” in front of their name, but they were still just hillbillys in suits. Some had a college degree, but they didn’t know which fork to use when.

Efficient companies with interstate aspirations prefer federal oversight to state. They know then that all they have to do to be successful is out-think and out-work their competition. Those not-so efficient wanting provincial protections prefer state control: State legislators and their appointees can be bought relatively cheap. It’s more difficult and much more expensive to buy a U.S. Congressman.

[JustRalph]

State legislators are something I’m familiar with. While attending the University of Texas, I worked as a waiter at a 4-star restaurant close to the capitol building. Normally a refined establishment serving excellent food, when the legislature came into session it assumed all the charm of a back-woods cock fight. They may have had “Sen.” or “Rep.” in front of their name, but they were still just hillbillys in suits. Some had a college degree, but they didn’t know which fork to use when.

Really? I assume that you found your way around the dumb hillbilly's and rose to incredible heights well above those lowly Texans.....?

[Cholly]

Really? I assume that you found your way around the dumb hillbilly's and rose to incredible heights well above those lowly Texans.....?

C’mon, Ralph--I’m not dissin’ Texans, I am one. I’m taking exception to the assertion that somehow federal controls are more heinous than state controls. My jab was intended at state legislators in every state, not just those in Texas. In some areas of life and/or business, state control may work out better. But it’s been a disaster for horse racing.

People love to bet, and they love the internet. So with a near monopoly on internet betting, the business of horse racing should have soared in the past 20 years. That it has gone in the other direction is an indictment of its balkanized state-by-state regulation format that gives the horsemen organizations undue influence in crafting those regulations in each state. Horse racing would be better off either under federal regulation, or under “no government regulations”.

[thaskalos]

"Only a little patience is needed"...writes Mr West..."and people generally have no patience for reform". But just how "patient" does Gary West expect us to be? The trainers themselves readily admit that illegal drugs were part of the game even during the game's glory days...while even the TV news-show 60 Minutes aired disturbing segments about the state that horse-racing had evolved into -- 35 years ago! Prominent veterinarians declared on 60 Minutes that illegal drug use had become so rampant...it was fast-becoming an impossibility for the bettors to make an informed decision by studying the past performances. Even the renowned handicapping author Tom Ainslie -- in an uncharacteristically somber tone -- concluded that a surprising number of horses were running..."as if their past-performances were forgeries".

More research by prominent veterinarians ensued...and autopsies on horses who had suffered fatal breakdowns revealed that, in over 75% of the cases, pre-existing trauma was evident right on the very spot where the fatal breakdown occurred. The implications were obvious...and disturbing. The horses had previous, race-related trauma...and were returned to the races before their limbs had properly healed. And, since we all know that no living thing would ever fully exert itself on an ailing limb...we must assume that these horses were given pain-numbing medication in order to race -- thus putting both themselves and their riders in great danger. If you don't believe that living things are incapable of fully exerting themselves on an ailing limb...then I suggest you try sprinting the next time you have even a minor ankle sprain. You win not even be able to put your whole weight on your ailing limb...because of your body's survival and protective mechanisms.

All these disturbing revelations came out...but the racing fans remained "patient". They held on to the hope that the game would finally be able to police itself...and continued to fervently support the game that they loved.

But the racing fans' faith and trust in the authorities overseeing the game proved misplaced...because the racing industry saw little incentive in cleaning up the sport. Money could never be found to properly equip the drug-testing laboratories...and the $500 fines handed out to millionaire trainers did not prove to have much of a deterrent affect. Nor did the brief suspensions serve their purpose...when the suspended trainer's horses were still left in the care of his assistants.

More years passed...and the racing fans -- believe it or not -- remained "patient"...and hopeful of better days. And here we finally are:

Seven-horse fields all around...reduced to five by the obligatory late scratches; escalating takeouts...even as many tracks are running thriving casino businesses on the side; obscure trainers achieving legendary status practically overnight...and hall-of-fame jockeys laughingly telling stories about using batteries to win races.

And now a call goes out to the racing fans...telling them to "have a little more patience".

Truth really is stranger than fiction...

[clocker7]

So what? You could cede control over every aspect of horse racing to the federal government (or to the UN, for you passionate idealists) and there would still be cheating galore ... if not by the government overseers themselves. Just like alcohol prohibition days.

So then what would you be advocating after that failed?

[thaskalos]

So what? You could cede control over every aspect of horse racing to the federal government (or to the UN, for you passionate idealists) and there would still be cheating galore ... if not by the government overseers themselves. Just like alcohol prohibition days.

So then what would you be advocating after that failed?

An "industry" that cannot be counted upon to dish out anything but slap-on-the wrist fines and "fake" suspensions, does not DESERVE to remain in charge of this game...and needs to have all authority taken away from them. If the government wins by default...so be it. This is one case where I doubt that the government can screw things up any more than the "authorities" of this game already have.

Did you play this game yesterday, my friend? If so... then tell me what you saw...

[clocker7]

If you think that government can't screw up things more than they already are now, then you haven't been paying attention during your lifetime. Yes, they can get much worse with federal bungling and malevolence.

[thaskalos]

If you think that government can't screw up things more than they already are now, then you haven't been paying attention during your lifetime. Yes, they can get much worse with federal bungling and malevolence.

I've been paying plenty of attention, friend...and this game is in dire need of immediate help -- even if you don't see it as clearly as some of the rest of us do. And, in my opinion...when you are trying to solve a problem...you don't enlist the same people who created the problem in the first place.

[clocker7]

If its effectiveness you seek, then you'd be better off pleading for intervention by the Mob. The honesty would be about the same, but the budget for enforcement would be about a thousand times cheaper. :lol:

[PaceAdvantage]

clocker7 is part of the problem. Clearly not the solution.

The fact that he's trying so hard here on this forum is curious...

[taxicab]

"Only a little patience is needed"...writes Mr West..."and people generally have no patience for reform". But just how "patient" does Gary West expect us to be? The trainers themselves readily admit that illegal drugs were part of the game even during the game's glory days...while even the TV news-show 60 Minutes aired disturbing segments about the state that horse-racing had evolved into -- 35 years ago! Prominent veterinarians declared on 60 Minutes that illegal drug use had become so rampant...it was fast-becoming an impossibility for the bettors to make an informed decision by studying the past performances. Even the renowned handicapping author Tom Ainslie -- in an uncharacteristically somber tone -- concluded that a surprising number of horses were running..."as if their past-performances were forgeries".

More research by prominent veterinarians ensued...and autopsies on horses who had suffered fatal breakdowns revealed that, in over 75% of the cases, pre-existing trauma was evident right on the very spot where the fatal breakdown occurred. The implications were obvious...and disturbing. The horses had previous, race-related trauma...and were returned to the races before their limbs had properly healed. And, since we all know that no living thing would ever fully exert itself on an ailing limb...we must assume that these horses were given pain-numbing medication in order to race -- thus putting both themselves and their riders in great danger. If you don't believe that living things are incapable of fully exerting themselves on an ailing limb...then I suggest you try sprinting the next time you have even a minor ankle sprain. You win not even be able to put your whole weight on your ailing limb...because of your body's survival and protective mechanisms.

All these disturbing revelations came out...but the racing fans remained "patient". They held on to the hope that the game would finally be able to police itself...and continued to fervently support the game that they loved.

But the racing fans' faith and trust in the authorities overseeing the game proved misplaced...because the racing industry saw little incentive in cleaning up the sport. Money could never be found to properly equip the drug-testing laboratories...and the $500 fines handed out to millionaire trainers did not prove to have much of a deterrent affect. Nor did the brief suspensions serve their purpose...when the suspended trainer's horses were still left in the care of his assistants.

More years passed...and the racing fans -- believe it or not -- remained "patient"...and hopeful of better days. And here we finally are:

Seven-horse fields all around...reduced to five by the obligatory late scratches; escalating takeouts...even as many tracks are running thriving casino businesses on the side; obscure trainers achieving legendary status practically overnight...and hall-of-fame jockeys laughingly telling stories about using batteries to win races.

And now a call goes out to the racing fans...telling them to "have a little more patience".

Truth really is stranger than fiction...


Great post thaskalos.
You absolutely nailed it.
My compliments tenfold.

[Stillriledup]

The bettors and customers see that the trainers and jocks have all the power and the tracks are really "powerless" to do much about their behavior. With the racing in Hong Kong, you can see the tracks and racing commissions have the power, and that's why the public trusts that the "participants" arent breaking racing rules and real life laws while running their horses.

USA handle would skyrocket if this place was run the way Japan runs their races....people arent stupid, they know that trainers and jocks are essentially running the sport in America and that doesn't breed any confidence at all that the horse races are on the up and up.

[taxicab]

So what? You could cede control over every aspect of horse racing to the federal government (or to the UN, for you passionate idealists) and there would still be cheating galore ... if not by the government overseers themselves. Just like alcohol prohibition days.

So then what would you be advocating after that failed?



PRETZEL LOGIC- Fallible, twisted or circular reasoning that when dissected is wrong, does not make sense or does not explain the situation rationally.

[Maximillion]

The bettors and customers see that the trainers and jocks have all the power and the tracks are really "powerless" to do much about their behavior. With the racing in Hong Kong, you can see the tracks and racing commissions have the power, and that's why the public trusts that the "participants" arent breaking racing rules and real life laws while running their horses.

USA handle would skyrocket if this place was run the way Japan runs their races....people arent stupid, they know that trainers and jocks are essentially running the sport in America and that doesn't breed any confidence at all that the horse races are on the up and up.

One thing seems clear,the public loves betting on stakes races and high quality fields.Tracks like NYRA and others seem to do well handle-wise regardless...but when a track like Penn sets a daily record for handle in the year 2013 (there stakes-filled card a year ago) the track itself does not seem to be the only factor.
Whether its because these races are percieved to be more "honest" than the everyday claiming races,not for me to say,but im guessing thats probably the case.

[chadk66]

anybody that doesn't think the business needs national medication rules and testing done by one facility really doesn't care about the industry or has something to hide.

[rastajenk]

What is the benefit of having test samples from Washington or Idaho being processed at the same place as samples from South Florida?

[Stillriledup]

One thing seems clear,the public loves betting on stakes races and high quality fields.Tracks like NYRA and others seem to do well handle-wise regardless...but when a track like Penn sets a daily record for handle in the year 2013 (there stakes-filled card a year ago) the track itself does not seem to be the only factor.
Whether its because these races are percieved to be more "honest" than the everyday claiming races,not for me to say,but im guessing thats probably the case.

They love betting on big pursed races because they believe everyone is trying and nobody is taking an envelope to be out of the tri. In a low rung claimer, fans don't have that same confidence.