Phil Ivey getting sued

[lamboguy]

supposedly, Phil took down the Borgata Hotel in Atlantic City for $9.4 million due to defective cards in Bacarat. the Borgata wants their money back.

this is an interesting case because he beat them with their own cards.

http://www.nj.com/atlantic/index.ssf/2014/04/borgata_sues_poker_pro_who_allegedly_cheated_house _for_94_million.html

[horses4courses]

I hope he has to pay them back, and is barred from every casino throughout the world.
Haven't heard the outcome of his lawsuit against the London casino, but he has next to no chance of winning that one.

He took advantage of a defect in the cards - multiple times.
That's cheating.
Phil Ivey is an "edge seeker".
He avoids situations where the house has an edge over him in the game.
That's a tactful description of a cheat.

[Stillriledup]

I hope he has to pay them back, and is barred from every casino throughout the world.
Haven't heard the outcome of his lawsuit against the London casino, but he has next to no chance of winning that one.

He took advantage of a defect in the cards - multiple times.
That's cheating.
Phil Ivey is an "edge seeker".
He avoids situations where the house has an edge over him in the game.
That's a tactful description of a cheat.

:D ok.

Their cards, their game, if you have defective cards, that's on you.

Right?

[horses4courses]

:D ok.

Their cards, their game, if you have defective cards, that's on you.

Right?

What if there is a flaw in the game that works against the player?
Is that fair?

[lamboguy]

what i don't understand is how a casino would ever let this bum beat them out of $9 million to begin with.

there is no redeeming qualities about Casino's or the people that run them. i would love to know how many family's got ruined because casino's cleaned them out. the casino payoff politicians to get their licenses to legally rob the public. they ruin the fabric of every city they do business in.

i don't feel sorry for the casino. i only wish that Ivey got them for $900 million instead of the lousy $9 mil he took them for.

you can mark this day down within 6 years more than half these casino's will be closed up and look like morgues. the guys running the shows there aren't that bright to begin with. this episode is living proof.

[horses4courses]

Regardless of what anyone thinks about casinos, Phil Ivey entered more than one casino in 2012 with the intention of taking advantage of flawed playing cards, and cheating them out of millions. He should have to pay for that,
and so should the people who had the inside knowledge through the card manufacturer.

[Clocker]

He avoids situations where the house has an edge over him in the game.


OMG, has the man no shame? :eek:

[davew]

I hope he has to pay them back, and is barred from every casino throughout the world.
Haven't heard the outcome of his lawsuit against the London casino, but he has next to no chance of winning that one.

He took advantage of a defect in the cards - multiple times.
That's cheating.
Phil Ivey is an "edge seeker".
He avoids situations where the house has an edge over him in the game.
That's a tactful description of a cheat.

That is not true, he has a penchant for craps (but maybe he is sliding or changing dice)...

Very difficult to 'prove' over a year ago the deck was defective, allowing him to 'cheat' - I suspect the countersuit that will be filed will get more than original.

[Dave Schwartz]

Regardless of what anyone thinks about casinos, Phil Ivey entered more than one casino in 2012 with the intention of taking advantage of flawed playing cards, and cheating them out of millions. He should have to pay for that,
and so should the people who had the inside knowledge through the card manufacturer.

I must respectfully disagree with this.

In casino gaming, the game is refereed by one of the participants. It is COMPLETELY there responsibility to protect the integrity of the game. Therefore, bad cards, biased roulette wheels, bad dice - whatever the issue is - the responsibility should not belong with the player.

There should be no free lunch for the casino any more than there is for the player.


HOWEVER --- If he enlisted inside help from the casino, then he deserves to be labeled cheater and (no pun) all bets should be off.

[Clocker]

supposedly, Phil took down the Borgata Hotel in Atlantic City for $9.4 million due to defective cards in Bacarat. the Borgata wants their money back.

If they want their money back, all they have to do is comp him the biggest high roller suite in the joint and point him at the craps tables. Away from the poker table, Ivey is one of the biggest degenerate gamblers around.

[horses4courses]

There should be no free lunch for the casino any more than there is for the player.


HOWEVER --- If he enlisted inside help from the casino, then he deserves to be labeled cheater and (no pun) all bets should be off.

Agreed, Dave.
The onus is on the casino to prove that he had inside knowledge of the defect.
Being the cynic that I am, I doubt that they will have to dig too deeply.
Phil Ivey was hardly spending time in these joints for the ambiance.

[lamboguy]

Billy Walters AKA "the computer" got Steve Wynn in Atlantic City for $3.5 million on a roulette wheel.

Walters sent 2 guys to the hotel 1 month before he showed up to scout the wheels they had in that place.

when Wynn found out his hotel The Tropicana went for that type of money, he ordered them to shut down the wheels and pay the man.

[cj]

Hmmm, both been involved in some weird stuff:

www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98311

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=110228

[horses4courses]

Billy Walters AKA "the computer" got Steve Wynn in Atlantic City for $3.5 million on a roulette wheel.

Walters sent 2 guys to the hotel 1 month before he showed up to scout the wheels they had in that place.

when Wynn found out his hotel The Tropicana went for that type of money, he ordered them to shut down the wheels and pay the man.

Because the bias created in those roulette wheels back in the day was due to a lack of game protection by the house, with no other outside source involved, I would argue that Billy Walters turned the odds in his favor legitimately.

Same with card counters. It's not a crime to be an advantage player.
Just don't expect to be in action very long at the places you're beating.

[Tall One]

He took advantage of a defect in the cards - multiple times.
That's cheating.
Phil Ivey is an "edge seeker".
He avoids situations where the house has an edge over him in the game.
That's a tactful description of a cheat.



C'mon. Your post reminded me Loonie doing the right thing and not betting a sure thing.

It's the house's responsibility to begin with. If they were doing their jobs, it wouldn't be a problem. Doesn't change the fact it's their table, their dealer, and their cards.

If Nicky was still running things, might be a few new jobs opening up in the casino. ;)

[classhandicapper]

I wouldn't trust any of these big name poker players with a wooden nickel. As far as I am concerned, the evidence indicates they are virtually all low life scumbags looking to make moves and screw people.

They remind me of some of the pool hustlers I knew when I was young. The goal of many players wasn't to make a game where they had an edge (which is fine). It was all about screwing people.

1. Get someone to back you in a big money game and then dump to some guy you are actually partners with.

2. Give the book on all the players in your local room to an out of towner that the locals don't know. That way he can come in and make games with an edge on all the guys you normally hang out with and you get a piece of it (essentially screwing all your friends).

3. Get into multi player games and put someone in the middle between you and your partner.

[Dave Schwartz]

I remember waiting for a dealer to get off work at the old Fremont Hotel in Las Vegas, circa 1976. While I was waiting - about 30 minutes or so - a drama took place right in front of me.

A woman had just hit a signer jackpot for like $14,000. She was standing there with her husband and daughter, and just so thrilled with this hit. She just kept talking, and talking.

As the slot supervisor was filling out the paperwork, she continued to run her mouth on and on about their vacation, life back in Wisconsin, the weather difference, whatever... and the supervisor is just nodding his head, trying to be polite.

Then she said something really important.

She said, "You know, I am actually signing this tax form for my daughter here. We are hear to celebrate her 21st birthday, which is in 4 hours."

The supervisor looks up and says, "Was she playing the machine?"

The stupid women says, "Yes, but I gave her money to gamble with so we are partners."

He asks her a second way: "Did your daughter actually pull the handle on the machine or put the money into the machine?"

Stupid woman replies, "Yes, but it was my money."

Meanwhile, the husband is beginning to get the picture. He gets a pained look on his face and tries to step in, saying, "No, my wife didn't mean that. Our daughter gets the money as a gift, but it was my wife sitting at the machine playing. Our daughter was just watching."

The supervisor looks to the wife. The wife glares at the husband, like he is being called out for challenging what she said. "No, my daughter was definitely playing the machine but it was with my money. That makes it okay, right?"

The supervisor closes his folio and looks at her sternly. He says, "I am sorry, Ma'am but I cannot pay this jackpot if an underage person was even NEAR the machine."

Next thing an argument ensues between the woman and the supervisor. Then it is the husband and the supervisor. Finally, it is the husband and the wife. LOL

My friend and I went to dinner and came back like an hour later. Gaming enforcement was there taking a report. Bottom line: The casino did not have to pay off.

This was, of course, correct, but it was just laughable that anyone could be so stupid.

[horses4courses]

I wouldn't trust any of these big name poker players with a wooden nickel. As far as I am concerned, the evidence indicates they are virtually all low life scumbags looking to make moves and screw people.

They remind me of some of the pool hustlers I knew when I was young. The goal of many players wasn't to make a game where they had an edge (which is fine). It was all about screwing people.

1. Get someone to back you in a big money game and then dump to some guy you are actually partners with.

2. Give the book on all the players in your local room to an out of towner that the locals don't know. That way he can come in and make games with an edge on all the guys you normally hang out with and you get a piece of it (essentially screwing all your friends).

3. Get into multi player games and put someone in the middle between you and your partner.

I can relate to this.

My first encounter with seasoned poker players (aka poker scum) was in the late 1980s/early 90s. Working in the sportsbook at Caesars Tahoe at the time, the property hosted a week of poker tournaments for a fledgling holdem tour.

The end result was a gang of sharps from LV invading the place the week before Super Bowl. We booked the action in those days, both horses and sports. Needless to say, every steam game and pony got hammered at the windows.
Wasn't long before the boss cut them down to nothing, or we'd have gotten buried.

The consensus among casino staff during those events?
Nail down everything in the place, and smile when they're leaving.
If you had gold fillings, best not to smile at all.
Those guys would've sold their grandmothers without blinking.

[Rookies]

I remember waiting for a dealer to get off work at the old Fremont Hotel in Las Vegas, circa 1976. While I was waiting - about 30 minutes or so - a drama took place right in front of me.

A woman had just hit a signer jackpot for like $14,000. She was standing there with her husband and daughter, and just so thrilled with this hit. She just kept talking, and talking.

As the slot supervisor was filling out the paperwork, she continued to run her mouth on and on about their vacation, life back in Wisconsin, the weather difference, whatever... and the supervisor is just nodding his head, trying to be polite.

Then she said something really important.

She said, "You know, I am actually signing this tax form for my daughter here. We are hear to celebrate her 21st birthday, which is in 4 hours."

The supervisor looks up and says, "Was she playing the machine?"

The stupid women says, "Yes, but I gave her money to gamble with so we are partners."

He asks her a second way: "Did your daughter actually pull the handle on the machine or put the money into the machine?"

Stupid woman replies, "Yes, but it was my money."

Meanwhile, the husband is beginning to get the picture. He gets a pained look on his face and tries to step in, saying, "No, my wife didn't mean that. Our daughter gets the money as a gift, but it was my wife sitting at the machine playing. Our daughter was just watching."

The supervisor looks to the wife. The wife glares at the husband, like he is being called out for challenging what she said. "No, my daughter was definitely playing the machine but it was with my money. That makes it okay, right?"

The supervisor closes his folio and looks at her sternly. He says, "I am sorry, Ma'am but I cannot pay this jackpot if an underage person was even NEAR the machine."

Next thing an argument ensues between the woman and the supervisor. Then it is the husband and the supervisor. Finally, it is the husband and the wife. LOL

My friend and I went to dinner and came back like an hour later. Gaming enforcement was there taking a report. Bottom line: The casino did not have to pay off.

This was, of course, correct, but it was just laughable that anyone could be so stupid.

Sad, really sad what rubes so many people are with Gambling. So few people learn anything about Casinos and all that they entail before going. I was the same, but I was with sharps and I knew how to play my game of choice before going, at least.

[thaskalos]

I hope he has to pay them back, and is barred from every casino throughout the world.
Haven't heard the outcome of his lawsuit against the London casino, but he has next to no chance of winning that one.

He took advantage of a defect in the cards - multiple times.
That's cheating.
Phil Ivey is an "edge seeker".
He avoids situations where the house has an edge over him in the game.
That's a tactful description of a cheat.
There is nothing more pathetic than the sight of a casino running to the courts claiming that they were cheated.

They welcome this man and lick their chops when he puts a couple of million dollars of his own money down...and then they cry like little girls when he sticks them.

Give them hell, Phil Ivey...and take no prisoners.

[horses4courses]

There is nothing more pathetic than the sight of a casino running to the courts claiming that they were cheated.

They welcome this man and lick their chops when he puts a couple of million dollars of his own money down...and then they cry like little girls when he sticks them.

Give them hell, Phil Ivey...and take no prisoners.


Call it what you like, sir.
Phil Ivey - the Robin Hood of the gaming world.
Laughable.

If a link with the card manufacturer can be proved, he's a cheat.
Same as if he were digging his nails into the paint.

[thaskalos]

Phil Ivey is an "edge seeker".
He avoids situations where the house has an edge over him in the game.
That's a tactful description of a cheat.

Unbelievable...

The card counter is a cheat too then...right H4C?

When the man loses millions at the crap table, he is a degenerate loser...and when he wins millions at baccarat, he is a cheat.

Let me ask you something:

When Ivey walks into the casino...aren't they aware of the suspicions that surround him? Why do they even deal to him?

Or have they already pre-determined that they'll take his money if he loses...and stiff him when he wins?

[Stillriledup]

Call it what you like, sir.
Phil Ivey - the Robin Hood of the gaming world.
Laughable.

If a link with the card manufacturer can be proved, he's a cheat.
Same as if he were digging his nails into the paint.

You're dead wrong on this one. Casino's are ruthless and evil and have used plenty of technicalities to not pay off legit winners, you should be standing and cheering for Ivy to put these people in their place.

Standing and cheering.

[Stillriledup]

Unbelievable...

The card counter is a cheat too then...right H4C?

When the man loses millions at the crap table, he is a degenerate loser...and when he wins millions at baccarat, he is a cheat.

Let me ask you something:

When Ivey walks into the casino...aren't they aware of the suspicions that surround him? Why do they even deal to him?

Or have they already pre-determined that they'll take his money if he loses...and stiff him when he wins?

Exactly. If Ivey lost millions in a sitting and then they discovered a "Flaw" in their cards, do we think they would run to Ivey and say "sorry, our cards were flawed, here's your money back"

:D

[lamboguy]

Unbelievable...

The card counter is a cheat too then...right H4C?

When the man loses millions at the crap table, he is a degenerate loser...and when he wins millions at baccarat, he is a cheat.

Let me ask you something:

When Ivey walks into the casino...aren't they aware of the suspicions that surround him? Why do they even deal to him?

Or have they already pre-determined that they'll take his money if he loses...and stiff him when he wins?you don't know these guys running these casino's today. they should be arrested for trying to impersonate a human being. there is nothing nice about those people.

[thaskalos]

Call it what you like, sir.
Phil Ivey - the Robin Hood of the gaming world.
Laughable.

If a link with the card manufacturer can be proved, he's a cheat.
Same as if he were digging his nails into the paint.
My game...my rules...my cards...my dealer...and then I am supposed to cry when I lose? Have these men no self-respect at all?

If the casinos don't want to gamble anymore...then deal only low-limit games. Or turn the place into a bakery...and start selling bread.

[horses4courses]

[QUOTE=thaskalos]Unbelievable...

The card counter is a cheat too then...right H4C?

When the man loses millions at the crap table, he is a degenerate loser...and when he wins millions at baccarat, he is a cheat.

Let me ask you something:

When Ivey walks into the casino...aren't they aware of the suspicions that surround him? Why do they even deal to him?

Or have they already pre-determined that they'll take his money if he loses...and stiff him when he wins?[/I

Phil Ivey deserves anything and everything he wins, if he can do so without having an unfair advantage.
Knowledge of a defect in playing cards which are printed by an independent company would have to be considered as cheating.

I mentioned card counting in an earlier post.
No, it is not a crime.

Why would a casino deal to Phil Ivey?
Probably because they feel they have at least a 50% of beating him.
Should he walk away a winner, it will not be because the game is tainted.

[horses4courses]

My game...my rules...my cards...my dealer...and then I am supposed to cry when I lose? Have these men no self-respect at all?

If the casinos don't want to gamble anymore...then deal only low-limit games. Or turn the place into a bakery...and start selling bread.

You always come across as an intelligent, insightful person.

In this case, I'm afraid that many years on one side of the table has clouded your logic.

[barn32]

Phil Ivey won't get a dime.

[horses4courses]

you don't know these guys running these casino's today. they should be arrested for trying to impersonate a human being. there is nothing nice about those people.

We all long for the good old days....... :rolleyes:

http://www.tasteofcinema.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Casino-movie.jpg

[thaskalos]

You always come across as an intelligent, insightful person.

In this case, I'm afraid that many years on one side of the table has clouded your logic.
You expect me to walk into a slaughterhouse...and feel sorry for the butchers?

[horses4courses]

You expect me to walk into a slaughterhouse...and feel sorry for the butchers?

You say hero, I say cheat.
I'll agree to disagree.

[davew]

Unbelievable...

The card counter is a cheat too then...right H4C?

When the man loses millions at the crap table, he is a degenerate loser...and when he wins millions at baccarat, he is a cheat.

Let me ask you something:

When Ivey walks into the casino...aren't they aware of the suspicions that surround him? Why do they even deal to him?

Or have they already pre-determined that they'll take his money if he loses...and stiff him when he wins?

For sure, if they win this suit everytime a person wins at blackjack they will call them a 'cheater' and refuse to pay.

Phil Ivey used to have jets pick him up to get him to play at their casinos. An interesting hidden video by Barry Greenstein following him around during WSOP in 2009.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hYsCemYyGQ

[Stillriledup]

[QUOTE]

Phil Ivey deserves anything and everything he wins, if he can do so without having an unfair advantage.
Knowledge of a defect in playing cards which are printed by an independent company would have to be considered as cheating.

I mentioned card counting in an earlier post.
No, it is not a crime.

Why would a casino deal to Phil Ivey?
Probably because they feel they have at least a 50% of beating him.
Should he walk away a winner, it will not be because the game is tainted.

What's the difference between an unfair advantage and a fair advantage. Maybe what Ivey had was a fair advantage?

[thaskalos]

You say hero, I say cheat.
I'll agree to disagree.
I don't say "hero".

I say...Phil Ivey is one of the most famous gamblers in the world -- and his reputation precedes him. Don't deal to him if you think he takes unfair advantage. When you let him get on top of you for $10 million and THEN you call him a cheat...then you are taking shots at him -- and that ain't fair.

[Stillriledup]

I don't say "hero".

I say...Phil Ivey is one of the most famous gamblers in the world -- and his reputation precedes him. Don't deal to him if you think he takes unfair advantage. When you let him get on top of you for $10 million and THEN you call him a cheat...then you are taking shots at him -- and that ain't fair.

I agree. They let him play that kind of money because THEY thought they had the edge.....and they probably snickered behind the scenes, these casino games are set up for the house to have a huge built in edge per the rules, when a guy punks them, they should be men and pay.

If you make the rules and the odds, which the casino did, and someone whips your tail, obviously you didnt do a good enough job making the rules. The right thing to do is pay the man and change the rules if you want, but to "Accuse" someone of cheating because they won a lot of money is bush league.

[Clocker]

Don't deal to him if you think he takes unfair advantage. When you let him get on top of you for $10 million and THEN you call him a cheat...then you are taking shots at him -- and that ain't fair.

Agree. Where in this thread, or in the article linked in the OP, or in the Law Journal article linked in that article, is there a mention of a law that he broke?

According to the article,
While playing, Ivey allegedly cheated by fixating on pattern flaws on the back of the cards, a technique commonly known as "edge sorting," according to the lawsuit.

So, it is illegal in New Jersey to fixate? Does the anti-fixation law specify where or when fixation is illegal? Or is fixation on anything, anyplace in NJ illegal?

[horses4courses]

Phil Ivey used to have jets pick him up to get him to play at their casinos.

I have no knowledge of his win/loss history at casinos prior to his more recent dabbling at the mini-bacc tables.
After 2012, seems he found a way to turn things in his favor.

His unnamed Asian female associate in London is, very likely, an important piece of the puzzle.
By all accounts, no stranger to being shown the door in any number of fine gaming establishments throughout the world, she was a model suspect for liaising with a corrupt playing card manufacturing employee, or knowing someone who had.

Pure speculation on my part, I'll admit, but it's an educated guess.
Interesting to see how this all plays out.

[horses4courses]

Agree. Where in this thread, or in the article linked in the OP, or in the Law Journal article linked in that article, is there a mention of a law that he broke?

According to the article,


So, it is illegal in New Jersey to fixate? Does the anti-fixation law specify where or when fixation is illegal? Or is fixation on anything, anyplace in NJ illegal?

I doubt that the casino is trying to put Phil Ivey in jail.
If it can be proved that he colluded with parties who had knowledge of the card defect,
then they are (rightfully, imo) seeking their money back.

This does raise the question that, if the casino does not have sufficient proof against Ivey,
it may well pursue action against the card manufacturer.

[davew]

I have no knowledge of his win/loss history at casinos prior to his more recent dabbling at the mini-bacc tables.
After 2012, seems he found a way to turn things in his favor.

His unnamed Asian female associate in London is, very likely, an important piece of the puzzle.
By all accounts, no stranger to being shown the door in any number of fine gaming establishments throughout the world, she was a model suspect for liaising with a corrupt playing card manufacturing employee, or knowing someone who had.

Pure speculation on my part, I'll admit, but it's an educated guess.
Interesting to see how this all plays out.

That lady is a psychic and uses her hand on Phil signalling his next best move.

[Clocker]

If it can be proved that he colluded with parties who had knowledge of the card defect,
then they are (rightfully, imo) seeking their money back.



I agree. The only possible charge I see against Ivey is collusion, either with the manufacturer or with a casino employee who doctored the cards or manipulated them in such a way to give Ivey more information than generally available. But in the limited information we have here, there doesn't appear to be any charges of collusion.

Product liability would seem to be the most likely issue, but that would be a bear to litigate.

[fast4522]

They paid the man, he paid his taxes like all professionals do. The casino got beat in a down market. The environment is stacked for the casino who lost and paid out. All the casino now has is bad press. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Stillriledup]

Agree. Where in this thread, or in the article linked in the OP, or in the Law Journal article linked in that article, is there a mention of a law that he broke?

According to the article,


So, it is illegal in New Jersey to fixate? Does the anti-fixation law specify where or when fixation is illegal? Or is fixation on anything, anyplace in NJ illegal?

Yes, you're not allowed to "Study" the cards or else, that's cheating. Of course, if you study the cards wrong and lose, its an honest win for the casino. :D

[Tom]

He avoids situations where the house has an edge over him in the game.
That's a tactful description of a cheat.

When you gamble, you look for an edge. He found one.
The House should have not allowed the edge to exist. Their bad.
Live and learn.

No sympathy for stupid House. HE found it, so should they have.
If they want to go after someone, go after the employee who failed to do his job.

[Tom]

There is nothing more pathetic than the sight of a casino running to the courts claiming that they were cheated.

They welcome this man and lick their chops when he puts a couple of million dollars of his own money down...and then they cry like little girls when he sticks them.

Give them hell, Phil Ivey...and take no prisoners.

They should HIRE him to run security!

[Clocker]

HOWEVER --- If he enlisted inside help from the casino, then he deserves to be labeled cheater and (no pun) all bets should be off.

I have looked into this further, and he did have help from the casino. It was the casino's own stupidity. There was nothing wrong with the cards. They are a standard design used by many casinos, and they were not defective. But the design is asymmetrical. What Ivey did requires two things. The deck has to be stacked, and the deck must then be shuffled in a way that does not nullify the stack.

Explanation here. (http://apheat.net/2012/06/28/what-is-edge-sorting/)

The news article says that Ivey's accomplice was telling the dealer how to turn or rotate the cards. In Baccarat, the players do not touch the cards, only the dealer. So she was telling the dealer how to stack the deck, and the dealer was doing so, supposedly under close watch by management.

Then the deck has to be shuffled in a way that does not change the orientation of the cards. A shuffling machine does not change the orientation. A dealer may or may not, depending on his technique and house policies, as explained in the link above. Ivey specified that he would only play if all shuffling was done by machine, and the house agreed.

So what happened was that Ivey asked that the house do certain things that gave him an edge, and the house agreed. My understanding is that the house will often accommodate high rollers with minor changes in rules, such as changing the dealer hit/stand rules in 21.

How can it be cheating if the house changes the rules to your advantage?

[TJDave]

There was nothing wrong with the cards.

Of course, there was something wrong with the cards. If one edge is different than the others then something is wrong. Casino management was stupider than stupid.

[Clocker]

Of course, there was something wrong with the cards. If one edge is different than the others then something is wrong.

I meant that there was no manufacturer defect. The cards were delivered as designed and as sold. The casino knew that the cards were asymmetric when they bought them. And as shown in the article I linked to, some casinos are aware that there is a potential problem with the cards if they are not shuffled properly.

This is all on the casino. Interesting that Ivey won the money in four different sessions spread over some period of time. One article said that Ivey won several million in the first session, and that the money was deposited directly to his account in a Mexican bank. And after that, the casino let him come back and play under the same conditions without figuring out that they had a problem. How dumb is that.

[PaceAdvantage]

A Mexican bank?

Well, he is a gambler... :lol:

[TJDave]

A Mexican bank?

Well, he is a gambler... :lol:

I'm sure the IRS would love to hear more about that.

[Clocker]

A Mexican bank?

Well, he is a gambler... :lol:

The article said he lives there. It didn't say anything about his citizenship.

[cj's dad]

I've never been able to figure out why counting cards is a no-no other than the casino says so.

[Clocker]

I've never been able to figure out why counting cards is a no-no other than the casino says so.

That's it. Card counting is legal, but the casino has the right to not let you play.

[cj's dad]

That's it. Card counting is legal, but the casino has the right to not let you play.

Like Lambo said earlier. casino owners are crooks; that's why the only time I go to a casino is for the sports book or it's connected to horse racing.

[Tom]

That's it. Card counting is legal, but the casino has the right to not let you play.

Exactly, so screw them. No tears when they get beat.
They are vultures, so a bigger vulture came along.
Survival of the fittest.
This is gambling - you need balls and a brain.
May the best man win. :lol::lol::lol:

[horses4courses]

http://www.kansascity.com/2014/04/18/4969142/casino-says-defect-in-cards-made.html

[TJDave]

http://www.kansascity.com/2014/04/18/4969142/casino-says-defect-in-cards-made.html

The Borgata should consider the 10 mil as part of a "kick me I'm stupid" fine and go on.

[horses4courses]

The Borgata should consider the 10 mil as part of a "kick me I'm stupid" fine and go on.

That would be fine by me, if they donated the money to charity.

[Lefty]

David Sklansky used to run around Vegas looking for "Flaws" in different casino games. He often found them.
It's up to the casinos to protect themselves from their own stupidity.

[PaceAdvantage]

David Sklansky used to run around Vegas looking for "Flaws" in different casino games. He often found them.
It's up to the casinos to protect themselves from their own stupidity.Hey, Lefty...where you been?

Glad to see you back in action!!! A few folks here were wondering where you went and were hoping you were OK.

[ReplayRandall]

David Sklansky used to run around Vegas looking for "Flaws" in different casino games. He often found them.
It's up to the casinos to protect themselves from their own stupidity.

The best gambler that ever exploited a casino's oversight was Billy Walters in the 1980's. Here's the story....www.ruleto.com/billy-walters/

[Lefty]

Hi, Mike. I've been busy writing my books. Just finished my nineteenth. I check in here now and again, but the guys usually make comments sharper than mine, so I read and don't chime in, usually.