Tapit: Green? Disinterested? Easy Win?

[JustRalph]

After watching the Replay of Tapit in the Wood Memorial I am still a little confused about whether this horse had his head in the game or not. I wonder whether he even had to run at all to win? He seemed like he was very relaxed and maybe even disinterested and still was able to get up in time with what appeared to be little real urging, and a pre-occupation with the latest special on the menu board at a second level snack bar in the grandstand. I have seen the suggestion that he may need blinkers, I know diddly about training horses..........but I would like to hear from Purple Power or some "in the know" types on this issue.

If this horse wasn't even trying and he gets his head in the game and runs all out.........he could be a monster in a few weeks. Anybody agree?

[kingfin66]

E - None of the above. Although he may have been a little green, the more likely scenario is that he was behind in his conditioning due to the lung infection he had. Of course, who really knows for sure. If you go by what his trainer said prior to the race, he could be very, very sharp by the time May 1 gets here.

[BetHorses!]

Maybe Tapit watched Seabiscuit and was just toying with them

[Maxspa]

All,
My impression of Tapit's race is that he did not change leads and that was the reason he appeared to have problems in the stretch. This horse has talent and when he gets the experience he needs, he could be special.
Maxspa

[brdman12]

I don't think Tapit ran a fast race because he didn't have to. He looks like one of those athletes who isn't trying hard when he is...he looks very natural in his stride which is a nice long stride. If the jockey gets him out a little quicker, he wins going away. Nice horse ...but there's others ....smarty pants...lionheart...land others. At the right odds...he's my pick.

[brdman12]

smarty pants?...lol

[shanta]

can i vote twice?? I thought he raced very greenly and also won so easy. Michael Dickinson all along has said that this horse is very special and if he gets to the derby healthy watch out! I believe him. He (dickinson) reminds me of the year Sea Hero won the derby and a few days before the race his trainer Mack MIller said that Sea had gotten sick and blah,blah but that right now he was better than when he was champion at 2!! Mack MIller was never the "blowhard" type and when he spoke (r.i.p.) i listened. I feel the same about Mr. Dickinson. Imagine when he (tapit) gets a fast pace to run at like it usually happens in the derby.
Richie :)

[Blackgold]

I was somewhat in awe of Tapit and how he won the Wood.

Sure he's green. But he was relaxed, not hard used and he won from way back.

If he can run big in the Derby, he may be the one to beat.

[keilan]

Tough poll cause I could check up to three of the boxes.

Certainly he ran a little green in the lane, and also won convincingly.

Dominguez is a top jock and is 2 for 2 aboard, I think he is the right jockey.

Now for the blinkers dilemma. Dammed if you do, dammed if you don't.
Here's my take, first test him with blinkers in his 2nd work after the Wood. If the blinkers get him focused on business I would race him with them on in the Derby. His numbers and energy both strongly indicate to me that he fits the profile very well.

I picked Tapit in the Wood and I think this guy is capable of a monster race with the addition of blinkers as long as he stays within himself early.

The thing I like best is he was easy on himself in the Wood and I expect him to move forward.

[BetHorses!]

I respectfully disagree. Tapit does not need Blinkers. I think Dickinson deserves a little more respect also. I'm sure he knows how Tapit runs with the hood already.

[kingfin66]

I heard an interview with a trainer at EmDowns today. The trainer, Tim McCanna (won the last 3 trainer titles at EmD) was asked about Tapit's head position coming down the stretch and whether he would put blinkers on him. McCanna said that he would be very reluctant to do so after a win. As far as the head turn he said the Tapit could have been "hanging with his left lead" or possible the jockey did this intentionally so that Tapit could see a horse coming up on the outside.

[keilan]

Okay so you respectfully disagree, now tell me why you think that. Don't answer with what you read somewhere that so and so said nor what you think the trainer already thinks he knows. But tell me how you know.

See I bet on tons of horses every year that try blinkers for the first time, I can pretty much predict how they will fair before they run the race, most trainers would like to be as accurate.



Kingfin66

Tapit came from last to first, there was no one else coming with a run.:)

[kingfin66]

Originally posted by keilan


Kingfin66

Tapit came from last to first, there was no one else coming with a run.:)

I agree. I was only repeating what the trainer said. He was asked a question by a radio personality and may not have even seen the race.

[Show Me the Wire]

Blinkers and Tapit :

Difficult decision. My personal experience with blinkers, either helps a horse show more speed out of the gate and/or allows horses to pass or keep the lead.

Since Tapit passed a bunch of horses, I do not think blinkers are needed off a win. Tapit's head position could have been caused by the jock and had something to do with the horse's lead. You have to look very closely at this to determine the jock's grip on the reigns. I do not have the replay, so I can't comment on the jock's use of the reigns.

As, I said I would be more inclined to add blinkers if Tapit refused to pass horses, while turning his head away form the other horses.

Also, horses have their individual quirks, he may not like blinkers. because he might be the type that likes to look around, whioe running.

Bottom line if Tapit looked relunctant in passing, I would definitely add blinkers, if the jock was not the casue.

Regards,
Show Me the Wire

percpetion is reality

[brdman12]

Maybe we can find a horse that is still coming into his own at the Derby. A horse that will be overlooked like Tapit was in the Wood. But I believe Tapit has a lot more run in him.
I also think he was distracted or at least, not paying attention when he turned his head in his last race. He ran a very relaxed race, a little too relaxed. He is still learning to race. And hasn't peaked.

[Derek2U]

Yeah .. blinks or not? i thought Tapit ran FaB -- so EZ like a Free
Spirit-- but he was distracted or whatever causing him to run
& look at the grandstand a lot .... but blinks? thats a tuff Q ...
maybe Tapit's ONLY achilles is NOT RUNNING STRAIGHT .... but man what a RUN he did. kinda like me in my single days.

[depalma13]

I may be wrong, but I don't think you were allowed to change equipment after a win.

[cj]

You can change equipment after a win, I remember Volponi taking blinkers off after winning the BC Classic. I do think you need permission from the stewards, and I would think they want a good reason.

[Steve 'StatMan']

I agree, plus I pretty certain, as in all cases regarding blinkers at least, they must workout for the stewards with the equipment change(on/off)

[depalma13]

So the stewards have to give permission. I knew it wasn't as easy as just adding the equipment or taking it off. Thanks for the clarification.

[Dancer's Image]

I just found this forum yesterday and I've already learned something. I have been following and betting the ponies for over 40 years and it never even occurred to me that a trainer could not change equipment (ie. blinkers) without the stewards approval. I mean notification is one thing, but approval? What could possibly be the rationale behind this Fascist, authoritarian regulation? Is not the trainer responsible for the horse? If the trainer concludes that the horse needs to run with blinkers, for whatever reason, why do the stewards have anuthing at all to say about it? Does this need for the stewards approval further apply to the use of Lasix? the type of horseshoes worn by the horse? the jockey assigned to ride the horse? the feed for the horse? the training regimen for the horse?

[kenwoodallpromos]

Only been around a few years, but 1st time a heard stewards called fascist!!LOL!! Maybe the stewards need to make sure there are not mirrors on the inside of those blinkers to cause the horse to go crazy on the track! FYI, there are many types of blinkers stewards do approve of. And they keep me from shining a pocket mirror in the eyes of the stretch leader if my pick is running 2nd!LOL!!

[Dancer's Image]

no serious replies to my questions, yet....

I have been following and betting the ponies for over 40 years and it never even occurred to me that a trainer could not change equipment (ie. blinkers) without the stewards approval. I mean notification is one thing, but approval? What could possibly be the rationale behind this Fascist, authoritarian regulation?

....and notice, Ken, that I called the regulation, not the stewards, Fascist.

[Pace Cap'n]

Here is my understanding of the reasoning for requiring stewards to approve equipment changes, presented in a gross over-simplification:

Trainer has a horse, hasn't been winning at all. Tries blinkers. Sucker wins at 40/1. Wins next out with blinks, at 10/1. And again, but at 2/1. Trainer likes the win streak, but misses the good odds. Takes off the blinkers next time, fully expecting to lose, hoping to get the higher odds a race or two down the line.

Supposedly the stewards frown on such shenanigans, and will disallow an equipment change that may downgrade the performance of the animal in question.

[Dancer's Image]

Pace Cap'n;
That's the only reason I could think of also and my follow-up questions were sincere. So if the stewards are responsible for protecting the betting public from dishonest trainers when it comes to the use and non-use of blinkers, are the stewards then also responsible for protecting us from the myriad of other means available to trainers to affect the outcome of a race?

Seriously, I just mentioned a few off the top of my head that came to me at that moment, (Lasix, horseshoes, jockey,feed, training regimen), and I'm not even a trainer or part of the horse industry. I'm sure some trainer could come up with a list of probably 50 things that they could do to a horse to lessen the odds of that horse winning. So if a trainer wanted to insure that his horse didn't win the next race after winning a race using blinkers, there are plenty of things that trainer could do other than take the blinkers off. So if that is indeed the rationale for the regulation that the stewards must approve a change in blinker usage, it is a waste of time and an insult to the integrity of most trainers.

[Pace Cap'n]

Originally posted by Dancer's Image
Pace Cap'n; So if that is indeed the rationale for the regulation that the stewards must approve a change in blinker usage, it is a waste of time and an insult to the integrity of most trainers.

Just throwing us a bone hoping we'll think they're really on top on things.

[Dancer's Image]

Originally posted by Pace Cap'n
Just throwing us a bone hoping we'll think they're really on top on things.

Ain't it the truth! So many ways to lose a race, and believe me, I'm not that naive to think that it doesn't happen. But the thought of Dickinson taking the blinkers off Tapit in order to lose, or a KD steward denying approval to Dickinson to take the blinkers off, just boggles the mind.

[PurplePower]

Originally posted by JustRalph
......a pre-occupation with the latest special on the menu board at a second level snack bar in the grandstand. I have seen the suggestion that he may need blinkers, I know diddly about training horses..........but I would like to hear from Purple Power or some "in the know" types on this issue.

If this horse wasn't even trying and he gets his head in the game and runs all out.........he could be a monster in a few weeks. Anybody agree? Some of what has been said in this thread is true. Especially the part about fact that Stewards are charged with administering the rules which state that a trainer or jockey is supposed to be doing all they can to WIN. Sometimes trainers (or jockeys) confuse the word WIN with meaning "WIN big money from a good gamble" rather than WIN the race regardless of your odds. Paddock judges and stewards observe the equipment worn by each horse each time it runs. If a horse is observed running poorly without a tongue tie and winning with one, the stewards will require the trainer to run the horse "one way or the other" but to stop switching. Front bandages, figure 8 nose bands, shadow rolls are all equipment that can effect how a horse runs and the trainer is supposed to use that equipment "consistently with the best intent of winning".

Now about blinkers. Blinkers are a piece of equipment that can dramatically effect how a horse runs. When a horse is approved from the starting gate it is approved "with" or "without" blinkers. That is the way it will race until the trainer desires to change. In order to change (either ON or OFF) the trainer must first get an "OK" from the starter and then final approval from the stewards. The starter makes sure the horse will load with the change, will break straight and will leave the latches running. I once had a mare that we thought needed blinkers. When she went for her "ok" she "dusted" the horse to her outside. With a lot of people betting on her my mare stood in the gate until the rest had cleared then made sure they all got home safely before she did. Needless to say I immediately went back and had them removed. My rider (Donna Barton I think it was) told me that when we got her "ok" she was looking at the horse to her outside and left when she left. In the race there were horses on both sides of her and she did not know which way to look and got really nervous.

Some horses will flip in the gate with blinkers on, refuse to load, break inside or outside - or refuse to break - similar to my mare. In addition to the gambling aspect of the stewards approving changes, the safety of the participants also becomes a factor.

A general rule is that the stewards will not allow a blinkers change off a WIN. If the jockey says that his mount was shying from the grandstand and might race better with blinkers and the trainer agrees, the stewards will most likely allow the change. You can bet that Michael will bring Tapit to Churchill and work him with blinkers ON before putting them on him in the Derby, because with all that crowd, if Tapit is not comfortable with the shades, he will basically just "make the trip" staying in the safety of the herd.

Tapit was impressive, but if he is taken back to 20th at Louisville, his big late run could be hampered by the tighter Churchill turn not to mention 19 running obstacles.

Now, what I want to know is, "Which of the Derby contenders' owners use purple silks?"

[Dancer's Image]

Thank you, Purple Power....that was one of the most informative I've ever read in any racing forum. I suppose I should have a follow-up question but I'm kind of overwhelmed. I'll read it again in the AM. Thanks again.

[Dancer's Image]

I tried to edit my last post and discovered that you can only edit a post for 10 mins...no problem, I obviously meant to say, "That was one of the most informative posts I've ever read in any racing forum"...

Now, here's an article from today's Thoroughbred Times, and while it may just be poorly written, it certainly gives the impression that changing equipment is solely at the discretion of the trainer, ie. no mention is made of getting approval from the stewards....

Posted: 4/24/2004 1:09:00 PM ET

A.P. Adventure to wear blinkers in Kentucky Oaks

Bob and Beverly Lewis’s A.P. Adventure worked five furlongs in 1:00.80 on Saturday at Churchill Downs, giving trainer Wally Dollase every indication that the A.P. Indy filly is ready for her best effort in the Kentucky Oaks (G1) on April 30.
A.P. Adventure will wear blinkers for the first time, a recommendation her former jockey, Alex Solis, made after riding her in the Santa Anita Oaks (G1) on March 13, where she finished third, suffering her first loss in four tries.
"The rider was very pleased with her this morning," Dollase said. "It seems that she’s just right. We’re going to go with blinkers in the Oaks. I’ve noticed a change in her attitude for the better. She’s more focused now."
Although Solis made the equipment recommendation, Racing Hall of Fame jockey Mike Smith will have the mount aboard A.P. Adventure because Solis will be aboard Halfbridled, last year’s champion two-year-old filly, who is looking for her first victory of the season.
Also expected in the Oaks field are Grade 1 winners Madcap Escapade, Hollywood Story, and Silent Sighs.
"There are at least a half dozen horses who are as exceptional as any out there right now," Dollase said. "I haven’t analyzed the past performances yet, but I’m going to sit down and do that today."
Dollase said he thought the Oaks’s 1 1/8-mile distance could be a factor.
"One an one-eighth miles is her ideal distance because of her pedigree, obviously, but she doesn’t put out unless you ask her, which you want out of a route horse," Dollase said. "In the Oaks, it’ll depend on who kicks into gear in the final eighth of a mile. We know Halfbridled can probably handle it."
A.P. Adventure won her first three starts, including the Las Virgenes (G1) on February 15 at Santa Anita and has earned $277,080.—Ed DeRosa

[PurplePower]

Originally posted by Dancer's Image
....... I obviously meant to say, "That was one of the most informative posts I've ever read in any racing forum"...

Now, here's an article from today's Thoroughbred Times, and while it may just be poorly written, it certainly gives the impression that changing equipment is solely at the discretion of the trainer, ie. no mention is made of getting approval from the stewards.... But, if Wally does not go through the proper procedure of getting "A.P." approved to wear blinkers, it will not matter that it was written about in "TT" or DRF or anywhere else. Trainers have "intended" to make the change, told everyone they were making the change, even got the "ok" from the starter, but failed to mention the change when the horse was entered and wound up having to put on a set of "house" blinkers in the paddock or at the gate (or take some off). Note that she didn't win her most recent, AND the jockey reccommended the change. He will not have a problem making the change, but he WILL have to follow the rules and get the change "ok'd" by the stewards.
Thanks for the compliment about the post. You will find a lot of informative posts on this forum - along with some strong differences of opinion, some fun banter - and an occasional thread that just doesn't make sense.