Hong Kong wagers from US to be co-mingled

[horses4courses]

As of April 6th, TVG will be taking bets going into Hong Kong pools.
Anyone know good handicapping sources for there?

http://www.hkjc.com/english/corporate/racing_news_item.asp?in_file=/english/news/2014-03/news_2014033101900.html

[savant]

http://archive.wired.com/wired/archive/10.03/betting_pr.html

[Robert Goren]

Are other ADWs going to take Hong Kong action? Can Japan be far behind? How bad does this hurt American pools?

[horses4courses]

Are other ADWs going to take Hong Kong action? Can Japan be far behind? How bad does this hurt American pools?

Appears that this is an exclusive for TVG.
It's big, because those pools are enormous.

Japan, Australia, Europe, and South Africa are all offered by various US ADWs.
For the most part, they are small pools with high takeout.

Hong Kong should be a whole different ballgame. :ThmbUp:

[dkithore]

Try HKRF- The Hong Kong Racing Form or

eklein@horseracing.com.net which provides speed maps and excel spreadsheets (free).

Hope that helps.

DK

[horses4courses]

Try HKRF- The Hong Kong Racing Form or

eklein@horseracing.com.net which provides speed maps and excel spreadsheets (free).

Hope that helps.

DK

Thanks :ThmbUp:

[Robert Goren]

Appears that this is an exclusive for TVG.
It's big, because those pools are enormous.

Japan, Australia, Europe, and South Africa are all offered by various US ADWs.
For the most part, they are small pools with high takeout.

Hong Kong should be a whole different ballgame. :ThmbUp:The key is co-mingling. I believe those pools are not co-mingled. Or in some case the home country does not even have a pari-mutuel pool.

[olddaddy]

I wonder what the take out will be and how we can find out.

[savant]

The key is co-mingling. I believe those pools are not co-mingled. Or in some case the home country does not even have a pari-mutuel pool.

http://www.scmp.com/sport/racing/article/1461919/commingling-set-sunday-start-united-states

http://www.drf.com/news/tvg-agreement-allows-betting-commingled-pools-hong-kong-races

[horses4courses]

I wonder what the take out will be and how we can find out.

Looks like 17.5% on WP, quinellas, and doubles.
25% on trifectas on up......

http://special.hkjc.com/racing/info/en/betting/bet_important_notice.asp

main website: http://www.hkjc.com/home/english/index.asp

[olddaddy]

Looks like 17.5% on WP, quinellas, and doubles.
25% on trifectas on up......

http://special.hkjc.com/racing/info/en/betting/bet_important_notice.asp

main website: http://www.hkjc.com/home/english/index.asp

Thanks, I just hope they dont tack on to that. 17.5% on quinellas would be lower than any take on exactas at U.S. tracks.

[olddaddy]

I know it doesnt start tomorrow but Im looking at tomorrows card.

http://racing.hkjc.com/racing/info/meeting/Racecard/english/Local?b_cid=EWRHQLE

With all the info given on each horse and races, Its going to take hours to handicap one race. Change and learning new things will be good for this old fart. Im excited over this.

[lamboguy]

the hardcore handicappers are going to love the racing there. its as clean a product as there is.

this past weekend in Meydan there were 2 horses that won the big races there, the owners and trainer's were doing cartwheels. there was a rider that they call "the magician" that everyone loved, he brought home 2 winners that day.

also if you are a big bettor and have a good hunch, you can step up and bet $2000 to win and you won't budge the board

[JustRalph]

If BRIS Files or HDW files were available, this would be a big problem for American tracks? Am I wrong?

How about a DRF file?

No doubt TVG is working on that right now

[savant]

If BRIS Files or HDW files were available, this would be a big problem for American tracks? Am I wrong?

How about a DRF file?

No doubt TVG is working on that right now

https://www.tvg.com/free-past-horse-race-performances

[JustRalph]

https://www.tvg.com/free-past-horse-race-performances

Those pp's won't work with software. As far as I know

Maybe I should have said that more plainly.

Software compatible is what I was going for

[BIG49010]

I looked into data a long time ago, and I think it is out there, do a few google searches and I will bet you find many data providers.

[Hoofless_Wonder]

Yes, yes, yyyyyeeeeessssssss!!!!

Finally. If there was emoticon with 1000 jumping chickens, I'd post it here. Now there's two reasons to reactivate my TVG account - TimeFormUS PPs and now HK racing. Sweeeet!

:jump:

BTW - the Hong Kong Jockey Club has quite a bit of info out there online.

http://racing.hkjc.com/racing/Info/meeting/RaceCard/english/Local/

SpeedPower ratings link at the bottom and other info. Good, good stuff.

BY FAR the best racing on the planet, and probably as clean has humans can make it.

[Chachie]

BY FAR the best racing on the planet, and probably as clean has humans can make it.

Seriously? I am 100% ignorant to this subject. I gotta read up on this. ( not being a sarcastic turd btw ). This has def caught my attention :cool:

[Stillriledup]

Seriously? I am 100% ignorant to this subject. I gotta read up on this. ( not being a sarcastic turd btw ). This has def caught my attention :cool:

Yeah, there are no shenanigans over there for the most part, its as clean a product as you need it to be, not to mention the pools are massive.

[BIG49010]

TVG has it on betting menu this morning, and RTN showing races.

[olddaddy]

If Tvg wants betting on HK they better put races on TV rather than infomercials.

[savant]

If Tvg wants betting on HK they better put races on TV rather than infomercials.

They are only racing twice a week in Hong Kong.
On Wednesday nights,and Sunday Afternoons.
TVG is supposed to start showing the races starting
this week-end at 1AM Sunday morning Eastern time.

http://www.drf.com/news/tvg-agreement-allows-betting-commingled-pools-hong-kong-races

[horses4courses]

They are only racing twice a week in Hong Kong.
On Wednesday nights,and Sunday Afternoons.
TVG is supposed to start showing the races starting
this week-end at 1AM Sunday morning Eastern time.

http://www.drf.com/news/tvg-agreement-allows-betting-commingled-pools-hong-kong-races

Hong Kong is a good example of "less is more" in horse racing.

[davew]

Wed 7:15 am eastern / 4:15 am pacific
Sun 1:00 am eastern / 10:00 pm sat pacific

[Hoofless_Wonder]

Seriously? I am 100% ignorant to this subject. I gotta read up on this. ( not being a sarcastic turd btw ). This has def caught my attention :cool:

Absolutely serious on the best racing in the world. If you follow the races there for a few months, you'll realize how the classic handicapping factors of form, trip, pace, tactics, and class determine the outcome of almost every race. It's like a lab simulator of how horse racing is described in most handicapping books.

The high volatility of performance found in many North American races, due much in part to "race day medications", is pretty much removed from the equation.

Betting Hong Kong reminds me of how betting the ponies at the high class tracks in the U.S. was like when I first started playing the races back in the mid 1980s.

Now let's just hope the whales haven't ruined it too much in the last five years or so since North American wagering was last offered on Sha Tin.

[Chachie]

:ThmbUp: Thanks, will be watching the races closely.

The high volatility of performance found in many North American races, due much in part to "race day medications", is pretty much removed from the equation.

i like this

[funnsss1]

go to the hong kong jockey club site for everything about racing in hong kong pps odds etc.Ive been playing hong kong for about 25 years and last year hpi in Canada quit having the signal so I bet through offshore site and can only get radio of the races but its world class.

[savant]

go to the hong kong jockey club site for everything about racing in hong kong pps odds etc.Ive been playing hong kong for about 25 years and last year hpi in Canada quit having the signal so I bet through offshore site and can only get radio of the races but its world class.

They used to have a Ustream channel that streamed the Live races,and if
you could find a live feed from the Hong Kong ATV television channel online you can watch Live racing there also.

Is the offshore site you are using pools commingled with the Hong Kong Jockey
Club?(I doubt it but just asking).

[comet52]

This news sucks because I really want to wager on HK races and have been waiting for years to do so, but I can't get TVG in my state. :mad:

[Hoofless_Wonder]

I feel for you Comet. That does suck. I lived in Illinois for eight years until last fall, and though I could get TVG there, I'm glad to be away from there before the crooks there suspended online wagering again. It's idiotic in the "Land of the Free" one can't place a wager on a race.

27.5 hours to post, race 1, Sha Tin.....tick....tick....tick..... :)

[BIG49010]

This news sucks because I really want to wager on HK races and have been waiting for years to do so, but I can't get TVG in my state. :mad:
The other morning RTN - which you get thru Dishnetwork had the TV feed, even though TVG didn't have the morning races on TV. They did have them via net on there website. This was the first time I ever watched it, and they do a very nice job.

[Seabiscuit@AR]

What rebates are TVG paying on bets into the HKJC pools? If you bet directly with the HKJC the deal is 10% rebate on all bets of HK$10000 or more in win, place, quinella and quinella place pools. If these pools are going to be commingled the takeout and rebates should be the same for everyone. If the USA customers get a smaller rebate or no rebate then they will simply be handing their money over to the HKJC customers enjoying the 10% rebates

http://special.hkjc.com/racing/info/en/betting/guide_rebate.asp

[Hoofless_Wonder]

What rebates are TVG paying on bets into the HKJC pools? If you bet directly with the HKJC the deal is 10% rebate on all bets of HK$10000 or more in win, place, quinella and quinella place pools. If these pools are going to be commingled the takeout and rebates should be the same for everyone. If the USA customers get a smaller rebate or no rebate then they will simply be handing their money over to the HKJC customers enjoying the 10% rebates

http://special.hkjc.com/racing/info/en/betting/guide_rebate.asp

Looks like the rebate would only be the "regular" TVG rewards program, which isn't too zippy. But you are getting to bet on Hong Kong.

Under details, it appears that you will not be able to cancel wagers placed on Hong Kong racing. So be careful when selecting those US$1250 wagers.

27.5 hours to post, race 1, Sha Tin.....tick....tick....tick.....

I'm so excited, I moved the post up 24 hours. Actually it's now 48 hours, 2 min to post.....

[savant]

The other morning RTN - which you get thru Dishnetwork had the TV feed, even though TVG didn't have the morning races on TV. They did have them via net on there website. This was the first time I ever watched it, and they do a very nice job.

You can watch the race replays,and the daily track workout videos here for
free(You can replay different views of the race).

http://www.hkjc.com/english/press/showcase.asp

[Seabiscuit@AR]

TVG will be taking all these bets and as collective bets they will be placing bets of bigger than HK$10000 on many of the horses for win bets. Does TVG get paid the rebate by the HKJC the same as an ordinary player betting with the HKJC or are TVG on a different deal where they get no rebate from HKJC?

[comet52]

The other morning RTN - which you get thru Dishnetwork had the TV feed, even though TVG didn't have the morning races on TV. They did have them via net on there website. This was the first time I ever watched it, and they do a very nice job.

I can get the TVG channel on cable if I want to pay. What I can't get is the TVG adw where I could actually bet them. Maybe Xpressbet will join in the fun.

[comet52]

Xpressbet's reply to my inquiry about whether they'd offer HK racing:

"Thank you for contacting Xpressbet with your inquiry regarding Hong Kong racing. As of now, we are in discussions with Hong Kong to add their racing to our site, once again. However, we have not established a commitment either way if we’re going to offer their racing as part of our International racing selection. Please check back with us as we update our products continuously, and hope to offer Hong Kong racing in the near future."

Well at least they are in discussions, hoping it happens.

[gm10]

As of April 6th, TVG will be taking bets going into Hong Kong pools.
Anyone know good handicapping sources for there?

http://www.hkjc.com/english/corporate/racing_news_item.asp?in_file=/english/news/2014-03/news_2014033101900.html

I'm involved with this site. PDF's will be upgraded soon!

http://www.hkracing.com/pdf.aspx

[olddaddy]

Twinspires has pps up for HK , must mean they are in process of getting involved.

[comet52]

Twinspires has pps up for HK , must mean they are in process of getting involved.

If TVG and TS do it, I am pretty sure Xpressbet will follow for competitive reasons.

[Robert Goren]

If TVG and TS do it, I am pretty sure Xpressbet will follow for competitive reasons.The more, the better it is for the bettor.

[davew]

Did TVG have it last night? was there a live stream on website? how about the television station?

[duncan04]

Did TVG have it last night? was there a live stream on website? how about the television station?

TVG had it broadcast on their network

[tanner12oz]

Anyone carrying handicapping products for these?

[Hoofless_Wonder]

Anyone carrying handicapping products for these?

I looked around the other day, hoping at least somebody like TimeForm had PPs, but the findings were pretty lean. A couple of sites outside of the Hong Kong Jockey Club are:

http://www.horseracing.com.hk/~journal/data.htm

http://southcoastdatabase.com.au/horse-racing-database-australia-screen-samples/

But surely there must be some other providers of data.....

[BIG49010]

I looked around the other day, hoping at least somebody like TimeForm had PPs, but the findings were pretty lean. A couple of sites outside of the Hong Kong Jockey Club are:

http://www.horseracing.com.hk/~journal/data.htm

http://southcoastdatabase.com.au/horse-racing-database-australia-screen-samples/

But surely there must be some other providers of data.....

All of these must cater to whales, cost is big $$$$$, and on a yearly basis. Makes our data cost in U.S. seem cheap!

[dkithore]

Does anyone know why I can not access TVG from overseas, though I have an account (inactive)? Some of you techies may have some ideas. (I get server error - secure connection failed etc..).

Thanks in advance. If you have TVG support no. I can call as well.

p.s. From CA. no problem I am told.

DK

[BIG49010]

I think you need a North American IP address, but I could be wrong.

[savant]

Does anyone know why I can not access TVG from overseas, though I have an account (inactive)? Some of you techies may have some ideas. (I get server error - secure connection failed etc..).

Thanks in advance. If you have TVG support no. I can call as well.

p.s. From CA. no problem I am told.

DK

You must probably need to use a VPN service to gain access to the site
outside of the USA.

[dkithore]

I will check it out.
Thanks guys.

DK

p.s. may be consult with Snowden, lol.

[Seabiscuit@AR]

Hoofless Wonder

Racemate is a decent program for HK racing. Costs HK$6000 a year. The guy behind it was going to quit a year or so back but I think it is still going

http://www.racematenet.com/English/

[dkithore]

I think you need a North American IP address, but I could be wrong.

Thanks for the info on VPN . I am checking it out.

DK

[Some_One]

According to the SCMP, 2.7 Million HKD bet so far from the US

http://racing.scmp.com/freeservice/news/news20140409c.asp

[traynor]

Hoofless Wonder

Racemate is a decent program for HK racing. Costs HK$6000 a year. The guy behind it was going to quit a year or so back but I think it is still going

http://www.racematenet.com/English/

Current exchange rate: 6,000.00 HKD = 774.18 USD. And that is for a year's subscription.

[Some_One]

It'll take you a bit of time, but since there are only 2 racedays, you could always scrape the data of the website and use access to bring it all together.

[Hoofless_Wonder]

Hoofless Wonder

Racemate is a decent program for HK racing. Costs HK$6000 a year. The guy behind it was going to quit a year or so back but I think it is still going

http://www.racematenet.com/English/

Hey Seabiscuit, interesting. Looks like a lot of good info, though no updates on the blog there since 2011. Hmmmm.....

All I really want is a decent set of PPs. I'd be HAPPY to pay $10 a card for something like TimeForm......

[Hoofless_Wonder]

It'll take you a bit of time, but since there are only 2 racedays, you could always scrape the data of the website and use access to bring it all together.

Yeah, it would be nice to have some decent PPs on one page with pace and speed figures. The program from TVG is pretty lean. By the time I click through the maze of all the web links for one race and 14 horses, I'm pretty damn dizzy.

Trying to write some python in my spare time, and I think I'll look into scraping the info from the web site. It's impressive. Lifetime works, horse's weight for each race, lifetime records by surface and distance, equipment, etc.

[Some_One]

Yeah, it would be nice to have some decent PPs on one page with pace and speed figures. The program from TVG is pretty lean. By the time I click through the maze of all the web links for one race and 14 horses, I'm pretty damn dizzy.

Trying to write some python in my spare time, and I think I'll look into scraping the info from the web site. It's impressive. Lifetime works, horse's weight for each race, lifetime records by surface and distance, equipment, etc.

What I do is scrape the results and sectional pages, not the individual horses, etc

[olddaddy]

Im looking at the pp's for tonites HK feature and no info is given on the ship ins. I look on the Hong Kong racing site and cant find any info there either. We need more info if they expect us to bet there.


I also notice that the pp's dont show Military Attack chart for the dubai world cup.

[Hoofless_Wonder]

Im looking at the pp's for tonites HK feature and no info is given on the ship ins. I look on the Hong Kong racing site and cant find any info there either. We need more info if they expect us to bet there.


I also notice that the pp's dont show Military Attack chart for the dubai world cup.

Good points. It seems that overseas, "American" style PPs are hard to come by, as the bettors are on the hook to know the horses. But when you have NO information for the shippers, that's a bit ridiculous, especially for a $1.8M race in which foreigners are encouraged to enter.

The race history online does show a bit of info for Military Attack's overseas races, but it's sketchy. You're right though - not in the PP program from BRIS.

Timeform, are you listening? $10 for a decent set of American style PPs, please......

[Some_One]

Im looking at the pp's for tonites HK feature and no info is given on the ship ins. I look on the Hong Kong racing site and cant find any info there either. We need more info if they expect us to bet there.


I also notice that the pp's dont show Military Attack chart for the dubai world cup.
HKJC only has HKJC data usually.

For imports, you'll have to do a bit of work yourself (I know most handicappers on here want everything served up on a silver platter), check out:
http://www.hkjc.com/english/racinginfo/13_ppo_performance.asp
http://www.hkjc.com/english/racinginfo/13_ppo_performance.asp

Also the pre raceday show might have some more video (race/trials) on it.
http://www.hkjc.com/english/press/showcase.asp

[BreadandButter]

Im looking at the pp's for tonites HK feature and no info is given on the ship ins. I look on the Hong Kong racing site and cant find any info there either. We need more info if they expect us to bet there.


I also notice that the pp's dont show Military Attack chart for the dubai world cup.

Not sure where you guys are looking?

I actually think the pps on the HKJC web site are very good - much better than what we typically get in North America.

I've attached the pps for Military Attack - it shows the Dubai World Cup on paper - granted the big stakes pps are more enhanced that the typical ones.

Also all the past horses overseas forms are available in alpha order in the back of the pps and on the web site as well.

[Hoofless_Wonder]

Yeah, the data is out there, but do we need to get a bad dose of carpal tunnel syndrome to go through all the damn web pages? Plus, as much as I love having access to all that free data, their web site designer needs medication. Lots of navigational issues there, and popping up various sized windows which need constant rearrangement is not very tidy.

I mean even colorful PPs for the big race are hard to read, oldest race at the top, and rather incomplete.

Surely ontrack they sell PPs that have ALL info for one horse printed on one page?

[Some_One]

Surely ontrack they sell PPs that have ALL info for one horse printed on one page?

There is form data in the newspapers there, but not in English so I don't know how much data is in it.

[nvemil]

I tried to DVR the Happy Valley card this morning off of RTN (9701 on DISH) to no avail. Dark screen on playback. I suppose if I want to record the mid-week card I have to record off of TVG ? I never checked to see if TVG goes live with this during the week.

I recall an earlier thread about certain tracks blocking the feed from recording capability.

Anybody playing Happy Valley during the week ?

[BreadandButter]

I tried to DVR the Happy Valley card this morning off of RTN (9701 on DISH) to no avail. Dark screen on playback. I suppose if I want to record the mid-week card I have to record off of TVG ? I never checked to see if TVG goes live with this during the week.

I recall an earlier thread about certain tracks blocking the feed from recording capability.

Anybody playing Happy Valley during the week ?

It's not an issue specific to HK. It's an issue related to what sat RTN is pulling - applies to all of the track feeds they take. One of the first few HK cards you could record - but midway through the card the sat was breaking up and they moved the signal and then you couldn't record.

Here's a link to the previous thread.

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=107214

I was able to DVR the 4/27 card and 4/21 cards - there were issues with some of the cards prior to that.

Anytime there is a problem give RTN a call. Let them know. When I call it often seems I'm the only one. I called a card to two ago about the two audio signals on top of each other. They were completely unaware of it being an issue until I called and it was resolved within 10-15 mins.

TVG shows so many commercials you are likely to miss quite a bit. If the DVR functionality isn't working (I test by simply trying to rewind initially) then I record the signal onto the PC which allows me to go back and watch the recording at a later date.

[savant]

I tried to DVR the Happy Valley card this morning off of RTN (9701 on DISH) to no avail. Dark screen on playback. I suppose if I want to record the mid-week card I have to record off of TVG ? I never checked to see if TVG goes live with this during the week.

I recall an earlier thread about certain tracks blocking the feed from recording capability.

Anybody playing Happy Valley during the week ?

You can catch several years of race video replays,and daily track workout videos
here: http://www.hkjc.com/english/press/showcase.asp

[savant]

Does any one know why they keep changing the Hong Kong racing
dates between Friday,and Saturday nights?

[Hoofless_Wonder]

Does any one know why they keep changing the Hong Kong racing
dates between Friday,and Saturday nights?

Don't know the answer to your question, but after poking around a bit out on the great WWW, I found a calendar of the racing dates:

http://www.horseracing.com.hk/calendar.htm

I missed a card or two myself, thinking it was usually Sat Nights....

[Some_One]

Looks like Xpressbet will be taking HK as per the SCMP:

"The business through TVG on Hong Kong racing started at HK$2.7 million on day one in early April and has climbed to HK$5 million to HK$7 million a meeting, and the club welcomes a second American operator aboard this Sunday, Xpressbet."

HK$7 Million = ~US$900 K

[handyman1968]

Looks like Xpressbet will be taking HK as per the SCMP:

"The business through TVG on Hong Kong racing started at HK$2.7 million on day one in early April and has climbed to HK$5 million to HK$7 million a meeting, and the club welcomes a second American operator aboard this Sunday, Xpressbet."

HK$7 Million = ~US$900 K

Xpressbet not showing HK for tonight. Even their Japan's Yasuda Kinen card is showing as tomorrow, Sunday instead of tonight.

[Al Gobbi]

Xpressbet will start taking HK races July 1st

http://www.xpressbet.com/ReadXBToday?id=9306

[Some_One]

Nice timing, one or two meets before their summer break.

[Hoofless_Wonder]

The last two racing days for the current meet are at Sha Tin during the day - tonight for the Tuesday, 1 July date, and Saturday night for the last race day - Sunday, July 6th.

Racing in Hong Kong will resume in early September.

Xpressbet is late to the party, as the states where they allow ADW wagering are also pretty much the same as TVG. Anyone seriously wanting to bet HK Racing already has a TVG account, though if they prefer Xpressbet, then they can now access the best racing on the planet....

98 mins to post....