Boots in Safe Mode but not Normal Mode

[TexasDolly]

I recently ran a system restore in the safe mode . It appeared to be restoring
and said it had after it finished. It would not boot up in the normal mode,
however. There is no undo button available in system restore.
Running winxp pro with sp3.
Any help would sure be appreciated.
TD

[Augenj]

I recently ran a system restore in the safe mode . It appeared to be restoring
and said it had after it finished. It would not boot up in the normal mode,
however. There is no undo button available in system restore.
Running winxp pro with sp3.
Any help would sure be appreciated.
TD
Do you still have the system CD that came with the computer? If so, you could restore that to get to a normal mode and then restore from your original backup. If you don't have the CD, I'd backup up your data files from safe mode and install Windows 7. Of course you'd have to re-install all of your applications after that and the data files.

[TexasDolly]

Do you still have the system CD that came with the computer? If so, you could restore that to get to a normal mode and then restore from your original backup. If you don't have the CD, I'd backup up your data files from safe mode and install Windows 7. Of course you'd have to re-install all of your applications after that and the data files.

Thanks for the quick reply. I don't have a CD,there is an option to restore the oringinal factory system,however. I am running 4 virtuals and if I can I would really like to save them,plus all the other stuff.
TD

[JustRalph]

Run it again, choose a different date ?

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/304449

Some info,

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-vista/undo-system-restore

I know it won't help this time, but for future reference

[TexasDolly]

Run it again, choose a different date ?

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/304449

Some info,

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-vista/undo-system-restore

I know it won't help this time, but for future reference

Thanks Ralph,
I tried to use another date but all failed to restore. There was no undo option available for some reason. I had set one on 18th Feb. plus the ones set by the system checks.

TD

[PaceAdvantage]

Would it be something as simple as repairing the MBR? I seem to remember something can happen to that after doing a restore (or maybe it only happens after a full restore from a full backup). In any event, it's a simple fix...but might not be your problem.

[TexasDolly]

Would it be something as simple as repairing the MBR? I seem to remember something can happen to that after doing a restore (or maybe it only happens after a full restore from a full backup). In any event, it's a simple fix...but might not be your problem.

Thanks PA,
I took a quick look to see how to repair the MBR and it appears you need a CD which I don't have. I'll continue to look for ways to repair it.
TD

[Dave Schwartz]

Best guess is that you have a driver corruption. I had something similar on one of my machines recently with an nVidia upgrade. Rolling back did not work as now there was no driver, which forced the Safe Mode only option.

Make it easy on yourself and take it to someone (like the Geek Squad at Best Buy) and let them charge you like $125 to put things right.


Dave

[TexasDolly]

Best guess is that you have a driver corruption. I had something similar on one of my machines recently with an nVidia upgrade. Rolling back did not work as now there was no driver, which forced the Safe Mode only option.

Make it easy on yourself and take it to someone (like the Geek Squad at Best Buy) and let them charge you like $125 to put things right.


Dave

Thanks Dave,
Probably will have to do that at some point . I'll try some more probably,if no reason other than I will learn something for the future.
TD

[JustRalph]

Thanks Ralph,
I tried to use another date but all failed to restore. There was no undo option available for some reason. I had set one on 18th Feb. plus the ones set by the system checks.

TD

if you run restore from safe mode, you can't undo. it's in one of the docs I linked to.

can you get it to drop to a command prompt?

I am sure it's a driver if it will boot to safe mode.

can you get to the run line? in safe mode?

If so, type "msconfig" and try turning on and off certain drivers or programs and services loading. try top half off first, then bottom half until you narrow it down.

if you can drop it to the command prompt you can try to fix the MBR from there, but you might end up with it being worse off if you have multiple partitions etc........ I would make that a last resort.

"fixmbr" is the command from the command prompt, but I'm doing that off the top of my head.

[TexasDolly]

if you run restore from safe mode, you can't undo. it's in one of the docs I linked to.

can you get it to drop to a command prompt?

I am sure it's a driver if it will boot to safe mode.

can you get to the run line? in safe mode?

If so, type "msconfig" and try turning on and off certain drivers or programs and services loading. try top half off first, then bottom half until you narrow it down.

if you can drop it to the command prompt you can try to fix the MBR from there, but you might end up with it being worse off if you have multiple partitions etc........ I would make that a last resort.

"fixmbr" is the command from the command prompt, but I'm doing that off the top of my head.

Thanks Ralph,
I will boot it up in the safe mode and follow your suggestions
I am able to access the cmd line and msconfig. I am not clear how I eliminate the drivers . The services I found okay and a driver folder under
system.ini. Do I do something there ?
Thanks again .
TD

[Segwin]

I'm on a tablet which is a pita to try and paste and copy so Google SFC /scannow. It's a built-in system file checker in windows. Should be able to run it in safe mode as well. This may solve it or as part of a process of elimination.

Should you get it to boot normally run scandisk /r at a command prompt to check and repair broken file and bad sectors. Once you enter the command you have to reboot the computer to get it to run scandisk - it will prompt you through.

If you're booting into safe mode with no networking it automatically dumps drivers.

[TexasDolly]

I'm on a tablet which is a pita to try and paste and copy so Google SFC /scannow. It's a built-in system file checker in windows. Should be able to run it in safe mode as well. This may solve it or as part of a process of elimination.

Should you get it to boot normally run scandisk /r at a command prompt to check and repair broken file and bad sectors. Once you enter the command you have to reboot the computer to get it to run scandisk - it will prompt you through.

If you're booting into safe mode with no networking it automatically dumps drivers.

Thanks Terry,
I am currently attempting to run a "clean boot' following Ralph's suggestion.
The article I found suggests eliminating all the things(driver,services etc) you can for starters.
If it doesn't "clean boot" I will try your suggestion.
TD

[TexasDolly]

Terry.
I was unable to get scanow to run in the safe mode,but I did find a way to run chkdsk while booting to the normal mode . Will this do the same thing as your suggestion ?
TD

[Segwin]

Terry.
I was unable to get scanow to run in the safe mode,but I did find a way to run chkdsk while booting to the normal mode . Will this do the same thing as your suggestion ?
TD

No, they're two different programs but in your case both should be run. In safe mode:

You need to run it from a command prompt. Once Command Prompt is open, type the following command and then press Enter.

sfc /scannow

If you Google SFC (system file checker) and Scandisk in safe mode XP you will get all the info you need to run them in safe mode.

[JustRalph]

No, they're two different programs but in your case both should be run. In safe mode:

You need to run it from a command prompt. Once Command Prompt is open, type the following command and then press Enter.

sfc /scannow

If you Google SFC (system file checker) and Scandisk in safe mode XP you will get all the info you need to run them in safe mode.

If you run this and it asks to replace "newer files with originals from Microsoft" or something like that, and you do that, you are going to have problems. File versions are real tricky. You may disable certain apps or pieces of hardware....by restoring the older versions ....FYI

[DJofSD]

A couple more tidbits.

Take a gander at the Device Manager to see which items might show a yellow question mark. Those devices may or may not be the source of the driver problem. But at least it is someplace to start. It would be a short list of things which might have a bad driver.

Try looking at the boot log. See: http://www.techrepublic.com/article/diagnose-boot-problems-in-windows-xp-using-msconfig/ and http://www.ehow.com/facts_6929944_windows-msconfig-bootlog_.html .

Sometimes you might get a clue looking at things like a boot log or the messages when a normal boot fails. It just depends on how lucky you are.

In any event, it's a matter of trial and error to identify the problem. Basically, using MSCONFIG to disable/turn down as many things as possible then adding back/enabling things one at a time to see if you can reboot. Keep track of what you re-enable each time and when it fails to boot then you've narrowed it down to the area which has the problem. Once the general area has been identified it should be a little easier researching what is messed up.

Unfortunately, trial and error in this instance means booting into safe mode, running MSCONFIG, turning off all options then rebooting to see what happens. If it does not fail, then trying the next item in the MSCONFIG menu and trying again. Plan on hours and not minutes.

GL

P.S. A MS article about what happens during start up: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb457123.aspx
Published: November 03, 2005

Diagnosing and correcting hardware and software problems that affect the startup process is an important troubleshooting skill. Resolving startup issues requires a clear understanding of the startup process and core operating system components.

For information on how to obtain the Windows XP Professional Resource Kit in its entirety, please see http://www.microsoft.com/mspress/books/6795.asp.

[TexasDolly]

Thanks Ralph and DJ,
I was unable to run scannow from the safe mode. I disabled everything
(except some microsoft services) by following a procedure outlined from a search . This according to the article would provide a "clean boot" .
Thinking that if it worked I could then proceed to narrow down the trouble.
However, it failed. I then ran CHKDSK starting in the safe mode , it stopped
with the message that it would run the next time it was booted to the normal mode. So , I booted normally and the CHKDSK reported the disk was clean.
It did not finish booting (no reason to ,I guess, since it didn't make any corrections) . And now it will no longer boot up in the safe mode .
I guess this probably points to the MBR as PA suggested ,but I don't know
how to fix it without a winxp pro cd . I have a winxp home cd but I don't think it will work properly.
Thanks again all you guys and please post any more thoughts you may have.
TD

[vegasone]

If it is indeed a driver problem , and you have access to all the drivers, you can remove all the drivers in the device manager and reboot. Before doing anything like this I would image the drive as a backup. Removing the mouse driver will require you to use the keyboard to navigate ,so you can leave that in.
Usually when doing something like this I would copy the image to a spare drive and play with that.

Just depends on how desperate you are and how much time you want to spend on it.

There are also several utilities to fix the MBR ,but it has been a few years and I don't remember them. Check google.

[DJofSD]

JR can correct me if wrong, but, if you have any kind of Win XP disk you should be able to fix the MBR regardless.

I guess another way to put it: since things have gone from bad to worse, what do you have to lose? Try to fix the MBR using the installation disk you do have in hand.

IMPORTANT -- do not do any formatting!!!!

[TexasDolly]

Thanks Guys,
I will see what I can learn on google about the MBR fix. The MS article
implied that using the steps for turning off services ,drivers etc provided
a "clean boot" with the very minimum of drivers and programs as possible.
When it failed to boot, I began to lean toward the MBR.
Then when the CHKDSK reported everything was clean I began to favor the MBR a little more not knowing where else to turn.
I also had looked at the boot log earlier and it did not seem funny. It didn't
load some drivers in safe mode but it didn't say it couldn't or failed it just said it didn't load them.


TD

[DJofSD]

Look at this: http://pcsupport.about.com/od/fixtheproblem/ht/repairmbr.htm

If I had more time right now, I'd pull my laptop and installation CD to actually do that MBR repair. Sorry, I'm busy until the W/E.

[JustRalph]

unplug all the external hardware

printers, scanners etc........everything but the monitor and mouse, keyboard.

then shut the system down, power off. then try to start up normally

and make sure you are waiting for five minutes or more..........

trust me,,,,,,,,,when there are screwed up drivers........it can take that long.

you can also boot from that windows cd and run the recovery console

but try unplugging hardware attached........anything........ except the basics

[headhawg]

If Windows found a drive to boot from originally (in safe mode) then it couldn't have been the MBR -- it found an active partition. Otherwise an error like "No operating system found" would have been displayed. As now there are problems after running chkdsk who knows? If the OP ran chkdsk with the r switch then it might have moved some some files from bad sectors to "good" ones, but that doesn't necessarily solve anything. My guess now is that the hard drive was going bad, Windows couldn't load a driver or drivers from the bad clusters, and thus couldn't boot into normal mode.

There's too many things that could be possibly be done now to try and fix it, none of which could solve anything. If you don't want to lose any data, take it to a pro to see what he/she can do. Otherwise, try a reinstall and then run a disk check to see if there are errors. If so, time for a new drive.

[DJofSD]

HH, you are mostly likely correct. Attempting to "fix" the MBR was likely going to be the last best attempt at recovering.

You mentioned a disk going bad. I've been there, done that. Matter of fact, the only PC I have with XP on it, is that very system. I bought it used from a friend for a minimal amount and used it for almost 3 years before it finally gave up the ghost. One day it just could not boot past a certain driver. Using some tools from the UBD, I came to the conclusion, yep, the drive finally died (there were other indications but that's another story).

New drive (bigger and faster) and many hours reinstalling XP along with all of the MS Updates (ugg) and now it's a moderately nice system - as 13 inche HP laptops go.

[TexasDolly]

The CHKDSK didn't report any errors in the 5 steps . I also tried to enter the recovery console on a windows CD and it stopped because of errors.
I appreciate the help and advice from everyone . Maybe something will turn up.
TD

[DJofSD]

As I mentioned above there are tools you can use without needing to boot from the HDD. They're on the Ultimate Boot CD: http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/ .

It is self contained and runs a flavor of LINUX (BSD?). It's a compendium of different tools with a fair number for doing HDD checks. Some of those are general purpose and others are specific to the drive maker.

It's not the easiest tool to use but you should be able to muddle through it.

Specifically, try using some of the tools under HDD/Diagnosis. If your drive is failing or has failed, there should be at least one tool on the CD that will confirm it.

[jerry-g]

This is too simple so it just can't be the solution. When ever I have a power
fail when I boot up I get a screen to ask if I still want to boot into Safe
Mode. If I want to start Windows normally all I have to do is press any key
or wait and it continues to boot safe mode. Do you get that option when
you boot up. My thinking is when you are previously in Safe Mode it will
ask the next time if you want to stay in safe mode. Just a thought.

[JustRalph]

ok., let's get dirty

drop it to the command prompt

change directories to the c:\

you can do this by typing " cd .." hit enter, over and over until you get there.

then type "dir /s ntbt*.* " see if it locates "ntbtlog.txt"

probably in the windows folder

if so type "cd windows" hit enter (or wherever the file is located above)

this should change you to the windows folder. then type

"type ntbtlog.txt" if the file exists it's now going to show you a list of drivers loading etc.....some will be not loaded some loaded........ I suspect something at the bottom of the list might stand out as a problem......see what you can glean from the file and report back.

or find a good tech locally

[TexasDolly]

Ralph, There were no unusual entries in the boot log ,some were loaded
and some were not loaded . None they couldn't load they just said they didn't load. Since I ran Chkdsk I can no longer boot in the safe mode.

Jerry, no option comes up. When I pressed f8 it took me to the safe mode boot. It still tries and loads a lot of stuff and then stops with the items loaded still displayed.

DJ, I will try to burn the cd tool you mentioned and check it out.. I also ordered the book you referenced in one of your posts.

HH Thanks for the MBR tip. Maybe the tool/tools will answer your question about the soundness of the hard drive.

TD

[JustRalph]

Thanks for the quick reply. I don't have a CD,there is an option to restore the oringinal factory system,however. I am running 4 virtuals and if I can I would really like to save them,plus all the other stuff.
TD

can you further explain this........ I think I know what you mean by virtuals, but I want to make sure..........

[TexasDolly]

can you further explain this........ I think I know what you mean by virtuals, but I want to make sure..........

Ralph , They are virtual machines running various operating systems . It is a little easier for me to keep things separated that way.
TD

[jerry-g]

Ralph, There were no unusual entries in the boot log ,some were loaded
and some were not loaded . None they couldn't load they just said they didn't load. Since I ran Chkdsk I can no longer boot in the safe mode.

Jerry, no option comes up. When I pressed f8 it took me to the safe mode boot. It still tries and loads a lot of stuff and then stops with the items loaded still displayed.

DJ, I will try to burn the cd tool you mentioned and check it out.. I also ordered the book you referenced in one of your posts.

HH Thanks for the MBR tip. Maybe the tool/tools will answer your question about the soundness of the hard drive.

TD
The last line where it stops should be the culprit. That's why it can't go
farther.

[JustRalph]

Ralph , They are virtual machines running various operating systems . It is a little easier for me to keep things separated that way.
TD

before the problems, did you have a menu that asked what machine you wanted to boot to? or did you boot into Winxp and then start your VM's ?

[TexasDolly]

before the problems, did you have a menu that asked what machine you wanted to boot to? or did you boot into Winxp and then start your VM's ?

Yes, I booted in xp and then accessed the others from there. I didn't see anything strange on the last entry (boot log) and thought that was the legitimate end of it as I best remember. That was the log in the safe mode
so it's possible the normal boot attempt was listed in the body of it. I did look at pretty much all of it though.
TD

[JustRalph]

damn, I am stuck........ you can back it up from command prompt if you have to, but accessing your VM's from command prompt is something I have never done.

How about this, if you really have to save the data.

go buy a new hard drive. make it the master. Reinstall windows to that drive and then after it's up and running, your data should still be on the other drive, and accessible. as long as that drive is not corrupted etc.

if the data is critical, I might go that route

[Longshot6977]

Just saw this thread and thought I'd chime in.

Try opening the PC and disconnecting the network card/modem/sound card etc; anything that isn't required to run the OS. Reboot and see what happens. Connect one card at a time and reboot. If still NG, try this inexpensive but nifty device to get your data off the HDD.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-2-0-to-IDE-SATA-S-ATA-2-5-3-5-Hard-Drive-HD-HDD-Converter-Adapter-Cable-New-/300945727065

I have a similar one I bought for $9 and it has saved my data several times. It lets you hook up your internal drive as an external drive on another PC to access the data. As long as the drive isn't hosed, you will get your data. Let us know. Good luck.

[TexasDolly]

Thanks to everyone who took the time to post and offer suggestions. The desktop is an HP and they have a backup and recovery manager ,accessed by
pressing f11. It reads like it might back up most of the data etc I would like to save. It takes a good bit of time to backup and then recover so I'll probably be at it for 2 or 3 days. It seems at this point the best way to proceed. We'll see.
I really appreciated the help from everyone.

TD

[DJofSD]

TD, I'm familiar with HP's packaging a recovery tool but not one that is a back up too. Maybe I just never saw it but I did purchase numerous HP desktops and laptops and those all had a recovery tool which basically rebuilt the boot partition to a factory state, i.e. fresh and new but you would lose anything you had installed yourself.

So, if you would, post a link here from the HP site that describes what you are going to use. I'd like to read it before you take that path.

[TexasDolly]

TD, I'm familiar with HP's packaging a recovery tool but not one that is a back up too. Maybe I just never saw it but I did purchase numerous HP desktops and laptops and those all had a recovery tool which basically rebuilt the boot partition to a factory state, i.e. fresh and new but you would lose anything you had installed yourself.

So, if you would, post a link here from the HP site that describes what you are going to use. I'd like to read it before you take that path.

Hi DJ,
The manager has a separate option to backup any number of common directories as well as an option to specify any other files(takes wildcards if needed) you might like to include .In addition to the more common ones I elected to back up a number of others . I will look at that backup (used the option to not compress) and see if they appear to be okay. If there is a question about them I will try and check them on another computer. Assuming I eventually get most of what I want then I will try to restore the original factory setup and go from there. I didn't find a link as such ,this is what I gleaned from the procedure . It is currently preparing the backup files . There is an option to see what is being done and I have seen a number of the things I was hoping to save.
I had the same impression about f11 as you, only the factory restore available, however , this backup option wizard may save the day. It can be run separately and as often as you desire it looks like, so if I miss something I can try again.
I had recovered an HP laptop a few years ago(xp home ver.) and no backup was available.
TD

[DJofSD]

OK, it does sound like a different tool(s).

Best of luck getting things back to normal.

[Dave Schwartz]

Tex,

I would be very careful. A friend did this a couple of years ago on an HP laptop and when all was said and done it backed up on the "public" folders, along with "my documents," and software data that was under "Program Data."

IOW, if you have (say) data in a c:\ root folder it might not get backed up.

This COULD mean that your horse racing data could be lost!

The idea to "buy a hard drive" is a really good one. Besides, this drive could eventually be external and become your back up drive so you do not face this problem in the future.

[HUSKER55]

FWIW, I called my repair guy and his contention is that if you can't use sytem restore and get it to work then it is most likly some equipment problems, maybe a virus, but he was not sold on that.

Sorry, wish I could have been more help.

[Segwin]

As Dave said take it to the geek squad or buy a new hd to install windows or the os of your choice. Your data is safe on the old hd as long as you don't try anything above your skill set.

Who remembers Windows ME? What a pos - hoo-fah.

[TexasDolly]

Update on computer .
The horse data has been saved and verified as well as one other fairly important set of data . There are still a few more things I need to save and then the recovery step. The hard drive may well fail soon . I read somewhere that running CHKDSK puts a big strain on them and it was after running CHKDSK that it would no longer boot into the safe mode. The only hard drive I've had fail exhibited a number of things before failing while this one hasn't done anything similar in that sense.
It was good of you guys to help out,thank you.
TD

[PaceAdvantage]

My solid state drive failed a couple of weeks ago. NO WARNING whatsoever.

One day just a BSOD and that was it...the only other hard drive I had fail on me was the old school mechanical variety, and that gave me enough warning where I was able to back it up completely without issue.

[DJofSD]

So Mike, when the SSD went belly up, how did you recover?

Isn't there an existing drive on the system which contains the source of what is on the SSD, i.e. the OS?

[dlgreg]

My solid state drive failed a couple of weeks ago. NO WARNING whatsoever.

Mike, what brand was the SSD?

[headhawg]

My solid state drive failed a couple of weeks ago. NO WARNING whatsoever.Older SSDs had controllers that weren't as robust as the current ones. There's definitely no warning if those fail. As far as the NAND, you really need to monitor SMART regularly with a tool like CrystalDiskInfo or HDTune. You might be able to get some early detection of the impending doom by doing that. Also, if you have Windows on an SSD, make sure to run the manufacturer's "garbage collection" program. TRIM is supposed to work automagically when Windows is idle, but when the system drive is actually idle is another question.

[PaceAdvantage]

Mike, what brand was the SSD?It was an OCZ drive...Agility 4...Indilinx controller. It wasn't even two years old and I did periodically monitor SMART data...

Here is the interesting part. It died as I was editing a recorded television program. I was editing the program in part while trying to clear space on the drive, as it was almost full (it only had 19 or 20 gigs free out of 500)....

I read one obscure report on some website of this particular model failing when the drive neared capacity...I hadn't bothered to upgrade the firmware since the week I purchased the drive, so it may have been I was operating the whole time with buggy firmware...

Who knows?

[HoofedInTheChest]

If you are using a SSD, i highly recommend using two drives. Designate one drive for the OS (64 Gig should be plenty) and use a secondary drive for storage and whatnot. Whether it's internal or external it makes no difference, mind you, depending on what type of USB you have, you will probably get faster speeds internally.

If you are using a laptop you are handcuffed with the hardware expansion, to an extent.