NFL proposed rules change

[GaryG]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10500657/nfl-expected-penalize-players-using-racial-slurs-games

Using the N-word will be worth a 15 yard penalty and an ejection for 2nd time offenders. With a gay player in the league you can bet that there will be penalties for homosexual terms as well. If this is to be enforced it will require a detailed list of each offensive slur along with it's penalty. Apparently they have no problem with MF or other profanity. So, knocking a defender senseless with a cheap shot is worth the same penalty as calling him a name. I would opt to knock him senseless....:lol: This is the same kind of rule that they have in pussy european soccer.

[thaskalos]

Hey...don't forget that REAL football -- or "soccer", to you Americans -- is the "beautiful game". :cool:

[rastajenk]

Will that rule apply to all players, or just Caucasoidals?

[Stillriledup]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10500657/nfl-expected-penalize-players-using-racial-slurs-games

Using the N-word will be worth a 15 yard penalty and an ejection for 2nd time offenders. With a gay player in the league you can bet that there will be penalties for homosexual terms as well. If this is to be enforced it will require a detailed list of each offensive slur along with it's penalty. Apparently they have no problem with MF or other profanity. So, knocking a defender senseless with a cheap shot is worth the same penalty as calling him a name. I would opt to knock him senseless....:lol: This is the same kind of rule that they have in pussy european soccer.


What's next, are they going to start penalizing dirty looks :D

[magwell]

What's next, are they going to start penalizing dirty looks :DGay slurs and name calling at the same time = ruled off for life and a day.......

[ronsmac]

They want to eliminate racial slurs, and somehow that's a bad thing?

[cj's dad]

When blacks stop using the word to one another and in rap songs then I will get that this is a bad thing, Until blacks stop referring to one another as ni--ers then I will stop being concerned about the terminology used by them and others.

They want to eliminate racial slurs, and somehow that's a bad thing?

[magwell]

When blacks stop using the word to one another and in rap songs then I will get that this is a bad thing, Until blacks stop referring to one another as ni--ers then I will stop being concerned about the terminology used by them and others.Exactly.......:ThmbUp:

[wiffleball whizz]

Not sure who curtisonthebay is but he has lots of valid points :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[Stillriledup]

They want to eliminate racial slurs, and somehow that's a bad thing?

Its not a bad thing, but they need to stick to football and figuring out a way to officiate games honestly and fairly. If the NFL needs a certain team to win (you know, for ratings) they can just "invent" a 15 yard penalty for a "Slur" whether it happened or not. After all, it would be a penalty that we can't debate, it would be us just trusting the 60 year old ears of the ref that he heard what he thought he heard. I think its stinks to be honest, there's no place for this stuff in a sporting contest. If you want to punish people for slurs, punish them behind the scenes and leave the integrity of the games alone.

[Stillriledup]

When blacks stop using the word to one another and in rap songs then I will get that this is a bad thing, Until blacks stop referring to one another as ni--ers then I will stop being concerned about the terminology used by them and others.

Great point...you have the Jay Zs and other black rappers cashing in on that word...if your rap song doesnt have that word in the song, its not as valuable, those songs are listened to and sold on shock value and street cred.

I was pumping gas recently and the gas station was blasting a rap song over the sound system "N this, N that, yada yada yada" and i'm like woh, hold the phone. this is insane! :D

[proximity]

I was pumping gas recently........ :D

hey wiffleball whizz,

unless sru was working at the station, we can now successfully eliminate Oregon and new jersey as his state of domicile!! :D

[Stillriledup]

hey wiffleball whizz,

unless sru was working at the station, we can now successfully eliminate Oregon and new jersey as his state of domicile!! :D

:D

But i could have been on vacation. ;)

[proximity]

:D

But i could have been on vacation. ;)

:lol:

indeed, you remain the biggest mystery on this forum, although this new dude curtisonthebay is gaining ground! :D

[Marshall Bennett]

Compile a mile-long list and insure the officials remember it all. This is a huge load of horseshit. It's nonsense such as this that is only adding fuel to the fire between blacks and whites. My thoughts on it all are well documented here already. I don't need to repeat it and risk getting banned. :cool:

[Robert Fischer]

Will that rule apply to all players, or just Caucasoidals?

That's what the whole thing is about.
No white guys in the NFL are currently using the N-word on the field.

The sponsors are complaining, because since they have everything mic'd-up, you can hear players calling each other the N-word as if it means the same thing as "brother" or something.

[GaryG]

Wait until an official misses a key pass interference call because he though he heard a racial slur and was distracted. As has been pointed out, the black players are the ones that will suffer from this.

ESPN has had a daily gay story since the Michael Sam thing broke, praising him for his bravery and assuring all that there will be no problems in the locker room. It has also reignited their interest in the Dolphins situation. The funniest story was total outrage that the Dolphins players, in paricular Mike Pouncey, have been supportive of the villanous Incognito and have had no sympathy for the bullied victim. The solution is simple: NFL players need intensive sensitivity training before they are allowed to suit up.

[Stillriledup]

Wait until an official misses a key pass interference call because he though he heard a racial slur and was distracted. As has been pointed out, the black players are the ones that will suffer from this.

ESPN has had a daily gay story since the Michael Sam thing broke, praising him for his bravery and assuring all that there will be no problems in the locker room. It has also reignited their interest in the Dolphins situation. The funniest story was total outrage that the Dolphins players, in paricular Mike Pouncey, have been supportive of the villanous Incognito and have had no sympathy for the bullied victim. The solution is simple: NFL players need intensive sensitivity training before they are allowed to suit up.

Sensitivity? These players are gladiators, all our betting dollars care about is the finished product...we want angry men playing this game, the games are better if everyone is pissed off to be great PLAYERS. If they want to be great PEOPLE, they can do that on their own time.

[GaryG]

The point about sensitivity training was a little sarcasm....I guess too little.

[Stillriledup]

The point about sensitivity training was a little sarcasm....I guess too little.

We need more smileys, we need a "sarcasm" guy and certainly need a popcorn guy.

Sorry Gar, it went over my head. :D

[wiffleball whizz]

:lol:

indeed, you remain the biggest mystery on this forum, although this new dude curtisonthebay is gaining ground! :D

Curtisonthebay has to be poster of the week.....

Ironic thing is at work somebody was telling a good story about Curtis bay Maryland.......would be funny if that poster COTB lived by that afformentioned place

[wiffleball whizz]

hey wiffleball whizz,

unless sru was working at the station, we can now successfully eliminate Oregon and new jersey as his state of domicile!! :D


Where is SRU from


[ ] New York

[X] California

[ ] field

[cj]

Curtisonthebay has to be poster of the week.....

Ironic thing is at work somebody was telling a good story about Curtis bay Maryland.......would be funny if that poster COTB lived by that afformentioned place

I know a guy that posts here who was a legend on the one basketball court in Curtis Bay. Now you need to play in kevlar there.

[rastajenk]

Where do the Samoans fit in all of this? What if someone calls one a friggin' outrigger and a ref hears it wrong?

[tucker6]

Where do the Samoans fit in all of this? What if someone calls one a friggin' outrigger and a ref hears it wrong?
no one should have to put up with being called a friggin' outrigger. They are humans simply doing their job. They have no choice in who they are, and this is out and out bullying. :D

[tucker6]

I read yesterday that the NFL is seriously considering moving the extra point kick from the 2 yard line to the 25, making extra points a 42 yarder!! The theory behind a 42 yarder is that it would make the decision to go for 1 or 2 points a coin flip most times. Can you imagine making an extra point on a windy day? I like it actually, as it would create more two point conversion attempts, which adds excitement into the game. Kickers made 99.5% of all extra points last year. That's a problem to me. A TD is only 6 points, but the automatic nature of extra points has changed that.

[Marshall Bennett]

I like that idea as well. :ThmbUp:

[cj's dad]

Why are they tinkering with the most financially successful sport in the history of American sports? Why not make a running TD worth 5 points and a passing TD count for 6? Why not a punt/kickoff return for a TD count for 7 points.

Check out the relative value of the NFL which plays 16 games a year vs the other leagues which have seasons that go from 80+ games (B-ball & Ice Hockey) to baseball with it's 162 game schedule.

Total Revenue (bn)-----TV Revenue
N F L --------- - $11.0 ---------$5.0 bn
M L B ---------- $7.0 ---------$1.5 bn
N B A ---------- $5.0 -------- $930 m
N H L------------$3.3--------- $200 m
M L S------------$0.5-------- -$40 m
C F L-------------$0.1--------- $16 m

[Marshall Bennett]

Rule changes are fairly common. Doubt it would reflect any change. At least move it back to the 10 yard line. As it is now a kicker can shank a kick and get it through.

[tucker6]

Why are they tinkering with the most financially successful sport in the history of American sports? Why not make a running TD worth 5 points and a passing TD count for 6? Why not a punt/kickoff return for a TD count for 7 points.

Check out the relative value of the NFL which plays 16 games a year vs the other leagues which have seasons that go from 80+ games (B-ball & Ice Hockey) to baseball with it's 162 game schedule.

The NFL has always tinkered with the rules. Completely different philosophy than baseball. As to revenue compared to games played, I guess it belongs under the category, Less is More. I like that the NFL wants to provide more action and enjoyment to its fans as time goes by. Baseball could take a page from that book. They don't enact good rules or new equipment because it may affect the sanctity of someone's record from 80 years ago. The guy is dead. Move into the new century and allow your sport to compete for the revenue dollar.

[jballscalls]

Richard Sherman was dead-on accurate when he said this rule is almost racist, because they are only mentioning it with the big word. And as someone said, no white guys are saying it on the field (which isn't true according to my football playing friend) so it's a rule specifically targeting black players.

If they're gonna do it they need to enforce it on any bad language.

Personally, I don't think you need to insult or use bad language to be fired up, but that's just me.

[jballscalls]

ESPN has had a daily gay story.

They also have a million straight stories everyday too. Interesting the daily gay one seems to have drawn your ire

[cj]

Richard Sherman was dead-on accurate when he said this rule is almost racist, because they are only mentioning it with the big word. And as someone said, no white guys are saying it on the field (which isn't true according to my football playing friend) so it's a rule specifically targeting black players.

If they're gonna do it they need to enforce it on any bad language.

Personally, I don't think you need to insult or use bad language to be fired up, but that's just me.

I'd love to see them get rid of the bad language. It just isn't necessary. NBA games are brutal in person. On TV, it is amazing how often the sound is muted during a game to block out the f word. In what other job can you holler that out in front of fans, including women and children?

[jballscalls]

I'd love to see them get rid of the bad language. It just isn't necessary. NBA games are brutal in person. On TV, it is amazing how often the sound is muted during a game to block out the f word. In what other job can you holler that out in front of fans, including women and children?

You must have never stood outside an announcer's booth after our horse got caught on the wire or we blew a big call!

[Marshall Bennett]

Richard Sherman was dead-on accurate when he said this rule is almost racist, because they are only mentioning it with the big word. And as someone said, no white guys are saying it on the field (which isn't true according to my football playing friend) so it's a rule specifically targeting black players.
You've got to be kidding me. So the rule doesn't pass and we're racist for allowing the word to be used (just suppose this entices more whites to use it) or we're racist because the rule passes and it's aimed at black players.
Gimme a fkn break, man !!

[cj's dad]

You must have never stood outside an announcer's booth after our horse got caught on the wire or we blew a big call!

You have no idea just how wrong you are !!

[wiffleball whizz]

You have no idea just how wrong you are !!


Cue the Larry collmus comment.......

Curtis is gigantic on Larry collmus!!!!!


Oh wait I'm getting u mixed up with somebody else I know from baltimore

And off the record dave rodman is better then larry :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: ........most underrated caller in the country

[TJDave]

I'd love to see them get rid of the bad language. It just isn't necessary. NBA games are brutal in person. On TV, it is amazing how often the sound is muted during a game to block out the f word. In what other job can you holler that out in front of fans, including women and children?

They don't need a rules change. The commissioner could simply fine players. Remember when Stern made the players wear coats and ties? Fine them 10,000 per F bomb. It would end soon enough.

[cj's dad]

Cue the Larry collmus comment.......

Curtis is gigantic on Larry collmus!!!!!


Oh wait I'm getting u mixed up with somebody else I know from baltimore

And off the record dave rodman is better then larry :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: ........most underrated caller in the country

No argument here- Rodman is :ThmbUp::ThmbUp:

BTW- I'm not from Baltimore, I'm from the bay area !

[jballscalls]

You've got to be kidding me. So the rule doesn't pass and we're racist for allowing the word to be used (just suppose this entices more whites to use it) or we're racist because the rule passes and it's aimed at black players.
Gimme a fkn break, man !!

You're not racist for allowing the word to be used.

But it's "racist" in the same way the crack laws are racist. You're setting a rule/law that affects a massively disproportionate amount of a certain group of people. And if they only penalize for the n word and not for calling someone a gay slur or something like that, then it does seem as though they're only targeting one group of people, because as someone said above, it's likely not the white guys using that one word a majority of the time.

[Robert Goren]

Prehaps, they just ban white players from using it! :rolleyes: I am not buying into the arguments that that white players only very rarely use it.

[jballscalls]

Prehaps, they just ban white players from using it! :rolleyes: I am not buying into the arguments that that white players only very rarely use it.

my friend from high school played with the saints and rams for 7 years and told me the other day that there are some white guys who do use it on the field, but obviously it's an overwhelming majority of black players who do. Warren Sapp just did an interview saying Incognito called him the n word during a game.

As CJ said above, I don't know why it's so hard just to do away with all nasty language.

[Marshall Bennett]

But it's "racist" in the same way the crack laws are racist.
Enlighten me. Because far more blacks use crack than whites we're suppose to be more relaxed with arrest and sentencing?
The overall crime rate with blacks is far higher than with whites with a lot of crimes, nearly all violent crimes. Are we suppose to adjust and reduce the punishments for those as well until more whites get in on the action?
There's no logic in your argument here.

[cj]

I am not buying into the arguments that that white players only very rarely use it.

I think you are way off base there.

[Steve 'StatMan']

They also have a million straight stories everyday too. Interesting the daily gay one seems to have drawn your ire

So they really have a million straight stories everyday? They have a million stories, but sexualilty and preferences are not mentioned. Sometimes they do mention a player's wife or girlfriend. But are they 'straight stories', or more like stories about players that don't bring up sexuality. Yes, it is assumed they are straight, but in the context of the story, who cares?

[PaceAdvantage]

my friend from high school played with the saints and rams for 7 years and told me the other day that there are some white guys who do use it on the field, but obviously it's an overwhelming majority of black players who do. Warren Sapp just did an interview saying Incognito called him the n word during a game.

As CJ said above, I don't know why it's so hard just to do away with all nasty language.In the heat of battle, these guys are going to use every trick in the book to get inside the heads of their opponents. Political correctness won't stop anyone from using any word they think can accomplish this goal.

This applies to any player of any color.

Trying to legislate this away on the football field is ridiculous in my opinion.

[PaceAdvantage]

Enlighten me. Because far more blacks use crack than whites we're suppose to be more relaxed with arrest and sentencing?
The overall crime rate with blacks is far higher than with whites with a lot of crimes, nearly all violent crimes. Are we suppose to adjust and reduce the punishments for those as well until more whites get in on the action?
There's no logic in your argument here.Since you seem to be an expert, can you give us the numbers? What percent of whites use crack compared to blacks?

[PaceAdvantage]

Since you seem to be an expert, can you give us the numbers? What percent of whites use crack compared to blacks?Anxious for an answer, I dug this up after a quick search:

Despite racialized images of crack users, data from National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA) reveals that people reporting cocaine use in 1991 were 75% white, 15% black, and 10% Hispanic. People who admitted to using crack were 52% white, 38% black, and 10% Hispanic. From a rational perspective, these numbers should not be surprising: whites are, after all, the majority, and have a long-standing tendency to use drugs at rates higher than blacks. Nonetheless, in 2009, the U.S. Sentencing Commission released data showing no drug matches crack in terms of racially biased convictions. According to the data, 79% of 5,669 sentenced crack offenders were black, 10% were Hispanic, and only 10% were white.

Source: http://www.salon.com/2013/08/10/busting_the_crack_propaganda_myths_partner/

Perhaps you have more up-to-date data that shows the higher percentage of black crack usage compared to white crack usage? The data above is from 1991, which is quite old.

[jballscalls]

Anxious for an answer, I dug this up after a quick search:

Despite racialized images of crack users, data from National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA) reveals that people reporting cocaine use in 1991 were 75% white, 15% black, and 10% Hispanic. People who admitted to using crack were 52% white, 38% black, and 10% Hispanic. From a rational perspective, these numbers should not be surprising: whites are, after all, the majority, and have a long-standing tendency to use drugs at rates higher than blacks. Nonetheless, in 2009, the U.S. Sentencing Commission released data showing no drug matches crack in terms of racially biased convictions. According to the data, 79% of 5,669 sentenced crack offenders were black, 10% were Hispanic, and only 10% were white.

Source: http://www.salon.com/2013/08/10/busting_the_crack_propaganda_myths_partner/

Perhaps you have more up-to-date data that shows the higher percentage of black crack usage compared to white crack usage? The data above is from 1991, which is quite old.

The arrest rates is where I think the perception that crack is a black problem. Why are they being arrested and sentenced at such a high rate if they're using it at a rate lower than white, albeit not that much lower. So maybe it's not the laws that are targeting blacks, but the enforcement of the laws?

[jballscalls]

So they really have a million straight stories everyday? They have a million stories, but sexualilty and preferences are not mentioned. Sometimes they do mention a player's wife or girlfriend. But are they 'straight stories', or more like stories about players that don't bring up sexuality. Yes, it is assumed they are straight, but in the context of the story, who cares?

It's a big story now because of the time and place in history we as a society are in and sports are in as well.

straight people's sexuality never comes up because it's the massive majority and is not shocking to anyone when someone is straight.

But if a gay athlete doesn't come out, he or she will likely be perceived as straight until proven or told otherwise. It's just something that's presumed. So if the gay athlete wants to go out with his/her partner etc they're gonna be asked questions etc. Also because of the stigma attached to gay people, that's why ESPN and other places have these discussions about whether or not a locker room will tolerate a gay player.

Good news is we always have the mute button or channel change button if we're tired of hearing about a story. Plus, eventually with acceptance and things becoming more commonplace, reporting on them will become less commonplace. In 20 years gay athletes will be out and it won't be a big deal. I mean the WNBA has many out players and it isn't news at all when one is gay. Same with soccer, softball etc. But when it comes to gay males, people are still pretty weird about it for some reason.

[Marshall Bennett]

Since you seem to be an expert, can you give us the numbers? What percent of whites use crack compared to blacks?
When blacks leaders such as Sharpton echo what Jballs said about blacks being targeted, I tend to believe blacks are the majority users. I'm not letting whites off the hook with regards to cocaine abuse. Crack cocaine has always been more prevalent in black communities. No, I don't have numbers, but it's always been a sore spot with black leaders. I therefore consider the assumption as real.
I'm certainly more than willing to accept any numbers you have to prove me wrong. Your numbers above are 23 years old.

[PaceAdvantage]

When blacks leaders such as Sharpton echo what Jballs said about blacks being targeted, I tend to believe blacks are the majority users. I'm not letting whites off the hook with regards to cocaine abuse. Crack cocaine has always been more prevalent in black communities. No, I don't have numbers, but it's always been a sore spot with black leaders. I therefore consider the assumption as real.
I'm certainly more than willing to accept any numbers you have to prove me wrong. Your numbers above are 23 years old.Do you think usage has changed that much over the years?

And why would you believe that just because blacks are arrested and convicted more, that they use more, when the stats say exactly OPPOSITE!! That whites use drugs at a higher rate than blacks, BUT blacks are arrested and convicted FAR MORE than whites. In terms of absolute numbers (not percentages), whites DWARF blacks in drug usage, yet BLACKS are arrested and convicted in absolute numbers that DWARF whites.

That's what the data shows. Up-to-date recent data too (about all drugs, not just crack...I can't seem to find recent data about crack usage only).

But the narrative has been out there for some time about the complete disparity between white and black drug convictions vs. white and black drug use.

[Marshall Bennett]

And I don't suppose in your wildest dreams it might be not so much blacks being targeted or profiled, but being more careless in getting busted.
What would be your solution, to spend more and increase patrol, or simply quit arresting blacks and shift towards busting more whites?
Personally, I hate drugs. Whether the offender is white or black they need to go down. Imo, squabbling over what group are the bigger screw-ups and get caught more is totally irrelevant. That sir, is my opinion and it will not change.

[JustRalph]

Those numbers are skewed because there are very few cops trolling the Hampton's and the like for drug crimes. You know why? Because the cops go where the headlines are made. If whites were shooting each other on the streets while making drug deals in the Hampton's, there would be more whites arrested.

The whites make up more of the users because there are many more whites in the general population of the country. They also tend to be the "end user" and not the middleman etc.

Remember, upper management in Police Departments are no longer cops. They are politicians with mostly political leanings. They are often completely detached from the rank and file. They put their chess pieces where the news camera is recording the most recent murder-shooting-robbery. That is going to be the minority neighborhood, most of the time. Local news can drive the positioning of cops too. I'm not kidding. I've seen it happen.

The numbers you are quoting (PA) tell a story, but sometimes that story isn't the one outlined in the table of contents.

[cj's dad]

Those numbers are skewed because there are very few cops trolling the Hampton's and the like for drug crimes. You know why? Because the cops go where the headlines are made. If whites were shooting each other on the streets while making drug deals in the Hampton's, there would be more whites arrested.

The whites make up more of the users because there are many more whites in the general population of the country. They also tend to be the "end user" and not the middleman etc.

Remember, upper management in Police Departments are no longer cops. They are politicians with mostly political leanings. They are often completely detached from the rank and file. They put their chess pieces where the news camera is recording the most recent murder-shooting-robbery. That is going to be the minority neighborhood, most of the time. Local news can drive the positioning of cops too. I'm not kidding. I've seen it happen.

The numbers you are quoting (PA) tell a story, but sometimes that story isn't the one outlined in the table of contents.

Ralph, please stop; you are offering an opinion which is overwhelmingly factual. The left cannot deal with this type of logic. I realized a long time ago as a long time resident of the city that the reality is that blacks, for whatever reason, are arrested and jailed at a much higher % than white males. Why? I have no idea. I have to assume that it is because they are involved in more criminal activity than are whites. I have a hard time believing that when PO's leave their homes in the AM that their sole purpose is to go into black 'hoods and arrest black folks. I know the previous warden of the Baltimore City Jail; he is black- he has no inclination that the majority of inmates are there without merit; and the population as of 2013 was 85% black in a city that is 58% black.

[PaceAdvantage]

Ralph, please stop; you are offering an opinion which is overwhelmingly factual. The left cannot deal with this type of logic. I realized a long time ago as a long time resident of the city that the reality is that blacks, for whatever reason, are arrested and jailed at a much higher % than white males. Why? I have no idea. I have to assume that it is because they are involved in more criminal activity than are whites. I have a hard time believing that when PO's leave their homes in the AM that their sole purpose is to go into black 'hoods and arrest black folks. I know the previous warden of the Baltimore City Jail; he is black- he has no inclination that the majority of inmates are there without merit; and the population as of 2013 was 85% black in a city that is 58% black.You along with some others seem to completely miss the point.

And I am certainly not a member of "the left"

[Marshall Bennett]

You along with some others seem to completely miss the point.

And I am certainly not a member of "the left"
I understand your point and I know you do mine. The data you present may be distorted somewhat. An example is urban Detroit where only 11% of violent crimes last year were ever solved. Perhaps arrest were made, but for whatever reasons there weren't many convictions. While drug possession isn't considered violent, you've got to believe they went unchecked as well.
Although Detroit is an extreme example where the city has basically fallen apart, I'm quite certain other large cities experience similar conditions.
I don't think whites are the culprits in the situations. Both you and I know better.

[cj's dad]

You along with some others seem to completely miss the point.

And I am certainly not a member of "the left"

What point? I think I nailed it completely. Maybe reading comprehension is not your strong suit. Are you saying that there is a conspiracy among LEO's to target blacks so the prisons in major cities can have a disproportionate # of A-A's incarcerated than whites? Yeah, I can see it now, a PO sees a crime being committed and the perpetrator is white so he ignores it and drives off. Do you really believe that is happening?

Is the fact that more blacks are incarcerated than whites a reflection on society? Of course it is! Are these statistics a reflection on problems in society? Of course they are! Does this mean that LEO's should not do their jobs? Of course not.

[iceknight]

What point? I think I nailed it completely. Maybe reading comprehension is not your strong suit. Are you saying that there is a conspiracy among LEO's to target blacks so the prisons in major cities can have a disproportionate # of A-A's incarcerated than whites? Yeah, I can see it now, a PO sees a crime being committed and the perpetrator is white so he ignores it and drives off. Do you really believe that is happening?

Is the fact that more blacks are incarcerated than whites a reflection on society? Of course it is! Are these statistics a reflection on problems in society? Of course they are! Does this mean that LEO's should not do their jobs? Of course not. LEOs do not care about prison demographics. Their job is to book cases. Do you realize the "crime being committed" in many cases is possession of 1 oz or more of weed? So even if equal number of white and black drivers may possess the same "contraband" blacks are more likely to be searched for it and then booked. LEOs profile and pull over/conduct searches far less cars of white drivers than black drivers (Initially I just threw that our based on past knowledge, then I decided to locate actual data corroborating this- see below). Although White/Black/Hispanic are stopped at similar rates, the search rate of cars with black drivers is substantially higher.
http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=tp&tid=702

Black drivers (12.3%) were about three times as likely as white drivers (3.9%) and about two times as likely as Hispanic drivers (5.8%) to be searched during a traffic stop in 2008.

Besides, based on public data in this thread, you are not even from Baltimore (bay area right?), so it is a stretch to believe you when you talk about knowing jailors in Baltimore. See how perception varies assumptions?

[PhantomOnTour]

According to Wiki the population of the United States was 72.4% white in 2010.
I will presume that % was a bit higher in 1991...maybe 75%.

Does that put the crack use stats in a different light?

EDIT: for comparison...in 2010 the black population in the USA was 12.6%

[cj's dad]

Besides, based on public data in this thread, you are not even from Baltimore (bay area right?), so it is a stretch to believe you when you talk about knowing jailors in Baltimore. See how perception varies assumptions?

Attention wise ass- Baltimore has a bay area. And if you are going to call me a liar then do it to my face not from behind a key board. Do you think it's a big deal deal to know the one-time warden of the Baltimore City Jail ? I would tell you his name but you;re possibly the kind who would harass him and he doesn't need that. To wrap up this response to youe asinine post GFY.

[JustRalph]

LEOs do not care about prison demographics. Their job is to book cases. Do you realize the "crime being committed" in many cases is possession of 1 oz or more of weed? So even if equal number of white and black drivers may possess the same "contraband" blacks are more likely to be searched for it and then booked. LEOs profile and pull over/conduct searches far less cars of white drivers than black drivers (Initially I just threw that our based on past knowledge, then I decided to locate actual data corroborating this- see below). Although White/Black/Hispanic are stopped at similar rates, the search rate of cars with black drivers is substantially higher.
http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=tp&tid=702



Besides, based on public data in this thread, you are not even from Baltimore (bay area right?), so it is a stretch to believe you when you talk about knowing jailors in Baltimore. See how perception varies assumptions?

Unbelievable..... :bang:

Btw, I've covered how full of shit any data coming out of the DOJ is. Uniform crime reports are the source of almost all of their data. And UCR's are bullshit.

Those numbers are skewed by a million things. I will tell you that I agree that minorities are searched more often etc. but the disparity in data is huge. Big cities throw the averages out the window. You cannot draw conclusions based on what happens in larger cities. You have to look at the details of every city as individual numbers. I've been privy to these numbers for years. Most are wholly inaccurate and are manipulated and massaged for political purposes.

When you look at these numbers you must consider the makeup of the areas where minorities are stopped etc. you must consider the makeup of gangs and other influences on the numbers. Including the same issues as I pointed out in my previous post. Such as, every large police department in the country has a "gang unit" that does nothing but pursue and direct officers to interfere with and constantly monitor gangs. Very few gangs are white kids. It's just a fact. So those gang officers are stopping cars full of minority kids on a regular basis. 95% of gang unit stops, field interrogations etc are going to be minorities. This is why your "weed" numbers are accurate. Those kids driving through the burbs with an ounce in their car.........are getting away with it due to obscurity.

The only way to offset those factors would be to create a "suburban gang detail" that works the burbs every single night just like the inner city gang units. Of course that doesn't happen for obvious reasons. There are very few gangs in the burbs. Remember when they asked the famous bank robber "why do you rob banks?" He replied "because that's where the money is" The same principle applies. You don't post life guards at the sand dunes. This will always skew the numbers and then the numbers are manipulated to paint a picture always favorable to someone. The police, the Mayor or maybe even the neighborhood councilman. Lots of agendas in play

Your statement about cops "booking cases" is flawed. The job is to book "good cases". There are cops all over this country that make very few arrests every day. Tons of them make few arrests in a week. They work suburbs. 3rd shifts etc Where they do mostly security style work that deters crime. It's not all NYPD blue.

I had a cop friend who was NYPD in the Times Square area who shocked me once when he told me he averaged 19 Arrests a year. He was a day shifter. He walked a beat in Times Square. Don't think every cop in the country is driving back and forth from the jail 8 hours a day.

Btw, Curtisonthebay could put a golf ball in Chesapeake Bay waters from his front door with a nice 3 wood shot.

[Marshall Bennett]

Two blacks in a beat-up VW, two whites in a new Cadillac, the cop on patrol is white, both are suspected of breaking the same law. Any white cop in his right mind that valued his life would pull over the Cadillac first. Is this profiling? Of course it is, but who ends up behind bars and who goes free?
I know this may be a far-fetched scenario, but you can't have it both ways. Here's another question, are blacks necessarily being arrested at such a high rate by only white cops? I'm not sure of the stats, but white cops are a minority with HPD in Houston. I don't know about other cities, but seems insane to me to suggest only white cops are arresting blacks while black and/or Hispanic cops are arresting all others.

[iceknight]

Unbelievable..... :bang:

Btw, I've covered how full of shit any data coming out of the DOJ is. Uniform crime reports are the source of almost all of their data. And UCR's are bullshit.

I will tell you that I agree that minorities are searched more often etc. but the disparity in data is huge. Big cities throw the averages out the window. You cannot draw conclusions based on what happens in larger cities. You have to look at the details of every city as individual numbers. I've been privy to these numbers for years. Most are wholly inaccurate and are manipulated and massaged for political purposes.

Very few gangs are white kids. It's just a fact. ......

Those kids driving through the burbs with an ounce in their car.........are getting away with it due to obscurity.

Btw, Curtisonthebay could put a golf ball in Chesapeake Bay waters from his front door with a nice 3 wood shot. 1. I know very well which city area Curtisonthebay lives and who he is from before. That point was about making assumptions based on publicly available data or lack of data, which he seems very comfortable doing. Just read back a few posts where he comfortably assumes something based on lack of data. I was just pointing that out.

Now coming to your points, it is interesting how easily you claim that the numbers are made up when it does not agree with your viewpoint. Not sure what I can say about people who are in denial or purposely not willing to accept data.

By the way, the US population is concentrated around cities so throwing the cities out because they "mess up your average" is not right.

I quoted real data and all I get is fluff and denial from you, not sure what else I can say. You claim about knowing real city numbers but afford no transparency. Besides, being a non-white person myself and having worked in Pennsylvania closely with many, many white and black people from PJM area over the last 7-8 years, I am now able to decide for myself how things are stacked up against certain groups.

[iceknight]

Attention wise ass- Baltimore has a bay area. And if you are going to call me a liar then do it to my face not from behind a key board. Do you think it's a big deal deal to know the one-time warden of the Baltimore City Jail ? I would tell you his name but you;re possibly the kind who would harass him and he doesn't need that. To wrap up this response to youe asinine post GFY.I just said it is a stretch to believe based on publicly available info... just to show you how one should not make easy assumptions, something you seem to do a lot. You are missing the point and trying to create an artificial fight. And you are making further assumptions about what I would do, when I did not even ask for the name of this person. You have just been name dropping in an attempt to bolster your point earlier, but anecdotal info does not matter when we are discussing nationwide trends.

[cj's dad]

Thank you. I will heed your sage advice in future posts.

[PaceAdvantage]

Maybe reading comprehension is not your strong suit.Yeah, that's probably it. I lack reading comprehension. In fact, I'm probably just a moron with an IQ barely breaking triple digits.

Are you saying that there is a conspiracy among LEO's to target blacks so the prisons in major cities can have a disproportionate # of A-A's incarcerated than whites?Nope, not what I'm saying at all. Maybe there is a reading comprehension problem here.

Is the fact that more blacks are incarcerated than whites a reflection on society? Of course it is! Are these statistics a reflection on problems in society? Of course they are! Does this mean that LEO's should not do their jobs? Of course not.The point I was making was a simple one, and I'm surprised it's lost on you, a man of obvious high intelligence.

There are an order of magnitude MORE white people doing drugs (and probably selling too, but I can't be sure of that one), compared to black people. Given there are vastly more white people in the US compared to black people, this fact can't ever be in dispute.

However, we have a guy like Marshall saying that there are way more blacks smoking crack compared to whites. I disagree, and posted an old stat backing up my claim. Now, maybe over the last 20 years, blacks have caught up...I don't know...that's a LOT of percentage points to make up though if you look at the 1991 stat. I doubt blacks have increased their usage by 14% and or whites have decreased by 14% or some combo thereof has led to blacks overtaking whites in the crack department. But I could be wrong. Just asking if someone can prove me wrong.

[Marshall Bennett]

However, we have a guy like Marshall saying that there are way more blacks smoking crack compared to whites.
Unlike many on this board when I'm in error I admit it. I meant to say the rate of blacks using as I did with the crime rate mentioned in the same post. I fully understand that blacks make up only 12% of the total population. If I were to learn, however, that blacks indeed outnumbered whites as users I wouldn't fall out of my chair. By the same token, if it was reported that whites outnumber blacks 100-1 with the use of powdered cocaine I wouldn't be shocked either.
It's a cultural preference, as might be said of snow-skiing and several other activities. Why does racism always need to be an underlying factor?

[cj's dad]

Getting back to the OP, what if Tony Gonzalez is called a s--c? Is that a penalty? or a player with an Italian last name called a wop? what then? Sam called a f---ot what about that ? And whar about what I consider real filth the use of MFer; automatic ejection ?

[PaceAdvantage]

Unlike many on this board when I'm in error I admit it. I meant to say the rate of blacks using as I did with the crime rate mentioned in the same post. I fully understand that blacks make up only 12% of the total population. If I were to learn, however, that blacks indeed outnumbered whites as users I wouldn't fall out of my chair. By the same token, if it was reported that whites outnumber blacks 100-1 with the use of powdered cocaine I wouldn't be shocked either.
It's a cultural preference, as might be said of snow-skiing and several other activities. Why does racism always need to be an underlying factor?My mistake. I should have used "rate" not "number." I contend the percentage of blacks using crack is still less than whites.

I beg someone to prove me wrong with statistics.

There are a LOT of poor white folk smoking crack in the white slums of America, just as there are poor black folk smoking crack in the black slums of America. And there are plenty of middle class and rich (see Charlie Sheen) smoking crack too...

[tucker6]

My mistake. I should have used "rate" not "number." I contend the percentage of blacks using crack is still less than whites.

I beg someone to prove me wrong with statistics.

There are a LOT of poor white folk smoking crack in the white slums of America, just as there are poor black folk smoking crack in the black slums of America. And there are plenty of middle class and rich (see Charlie Sheen) smoking crack too...
I believe that would be meth. Cheap, and made locally. Just follow the rotting teeth.