Holy Bull Stakes

[andtheyreoff]

An interesting bunch begins Gulfstream's Derby trail:

:1: Coup de Grace
:2: Financial Mogul
:3: Best Plan Yet
:4: Almost Famous
:5: Our Caravan
:6: Mr. Speaker
:7: Cairo Prince
:8: Wicked Strong
:9: Conquest Titan
:10: Big Bazinga
:11: Intense Holiday
http://www.brisnet.com/php/bw_pdf_viewer.php?track=GP&race=10&param1=800&param2=2000&param3=1429940

Earlier in the day, there's an interesting n/w1x allowance, headlined by Top Billing, who narrowly missed in his last start while running big, and Surfing USA, who won impressively on Cigar Mile day.

:1: We're All Set
:2: Top Billing
:3: Surfing USA
:4: Rockford
:5: Grand Arrival
:6: He'sinfront
:7: Monopolize
http://www.brisnet.com/php/bw_pdf_viewer.php?track=GP&race=4&param1=2000&param2=320&param3=571976

[menifee]

Really nice race.

I am a fan of Conquest Titan. Reminds me of Mine that Bird (also from Birdstone). This horse has shown incredible speed which has led to it quitting against good competition. In his last race, rather than sending he made that Mine that Bird one run (it looked incredible) at CD. He beat General A Rod who came back and won at GP. He has to climb the class ladder as these horses are better than what he has faced.

The other horse that I like is Mr. Speaker. I am glad they are giving this horse a chance on dirt to see if he can be a Derby player.

[Robert Fischer]

This is a very nice field. It is a legit G2 field on paper, and there's some possibility that when you look back at the field later in the year it will look like a G1.

Some of the horses that fail here, will come back to redeem themselves.

Wicked Strong looks like the real deal. Big ++ Jockey switch to Castellano, after being ridden by Prado and Maragh.

Cairo Prince has derby aspirations

Mr. Speaker won the G3 Dania Beach on turf with a nice middle move on the backstretch, trained by Shug, good dirt works...

Conquest Titan showed good speed in the BC Juvenile, and then a big sweeping move at Churchill Downs.

Coup de Grace isn't as fast as these on a lot of figures, and this is a big step up in class at probably 2nd favorite price. But he does draw the rail, and has good connections.

Intense Holiday will need Rosario to work a trip, but should be relatively big odds on Pletcher/Rosario for a horse that is legitimately good.

Of the long shots, the 2 Financial Mogul intrigues me. Off 83 days with only 2 real race-fast works on the tab. Violette hasn't exactly made a 2nd home @ Gulfstream either. But 2 1/2 months ago he wasn't a whole lot worse(physically finished a half length in front of Noble Moon while doing somewhat less running) than Noble Moon in the Nashua.

[precocity]

This is a very nice field. It is a legit G2 field on paper, and there's some possibility that when you look back at the field later in the year it will look like a G1.

Some of the horses that fail here, will come back to redeem themselves.

Wicked Strong looks like the real deal. Big ++ Jockey switch to Castellano, after being ridden by Prado and Maragh.

Cairo Prince has derby aspirations

Mr. Speaker won the G3 Dania Beach on turf with a nice middle move on the backstretch, trained by Shug, good dirt works...

Conquest Titan showed good speed in the BC Juvenile, and then a big sweeping move at Churchill Downs.

Coup de Grace isn't as fast as these on a lot of figures, and this is a big step up in class at probably 2nd favorite price. But he does draw the rail, and has good connections.

Intense Holiday will need Rosario to work a trip, but should be relatively big odds on Pletcher/Rosario for a horse that is legitimately good.

Of the long shots, the 2 Financial Mogul intrigues me. Off 83 days with only 2 real race-fast works on the tab. Violette hasn't exactly made a 2nd home @ Gulfstream either. But 2 1/2 months ago he wasn't a whole lot worse(physically finished a half length in front of Noble Moon while doing somewhat less running) than Noble Moon in the Nashua.
w/p/s on that pletcher colt MR Fischer!!!!

[classhandicapper]

Yea, I agree. Nice field. Now I just have to find a play. :bang:

[tanner12oz]

Conquest titan for me..think this one can make noise down the road..likes the twin spires and bred to go long...

[Robert Fischer]

Wonderful race.
"flavorful"

these may not be superstars (although who knows... some of these still have potential), but they have character.
It's a joy to handicap a race like this.

[PhantomOnTour]

Can we merge the two Holy Bull threads?
Both are good threads with sharp input, but some is being buried a bit with it appearing in separate threads.

Thx

[Robert Fischer]

Can we merge the two Holy Bull threads?
Both are good threads with sharp input, but some is being buried a bit with it appearing in separate threads.

Thx

yea that would be good to do at the end.
both threads, kind of getting views from 2 different sections(a good thing), even though we usually organize them in the the Triple Crown Trail section.

[Robert Fischer]

Earlier in the day, there's an interesting n/w1x allowance, headlined by Top Billing...


:2: Top Billing



wow! :eek:

[menifee]

Really nice race.

I am a fan of Conquest Titan. Reminds me of Mine that Bird (also from Birdstone). This horse has shown incredible speed which has led to it quitting against good competition. In his last race, rather than sending he made that Mine that Bird one run (it looked incredible) at CD. He beat General A Rod who came back and won at GP. He has to climb the class ladder as these horses are better than what he has faced.

The other horse that I like is Mr. Speaker. I am glad they are giving this horse a chance on dirt to see if he can be a Derby player.

Conquest Titan made that nice run - I am really pleased with how he ran. Tough to close that far on that track. Cairo Prince was much the best on this day.

[CincyHorseplayer]

wow! :eek:

It was just an allowance race but hand ride and geared down it was 3/5ths different than the Holy Bull.I can't wait to see how much more this colt has.

[RacingFan1992]

Congrats to the grandson of Holy Bull in the 2014 Holy Bull Stakes. Would love to see a rivalry between Honor Code and Cairo Prince. A man can dream can't he?

[Bullet Plane]

It was just an allowance race but hand ride and geared down it was 3/5ths different than the Holy Bull.I can't wait to see how much more this colt has.

Yes, that 4th race at GP was an allowance Optional claiming at 1 1/16 restricted to 3 years olds...

4th GP 23.88 47.23 1:11.01 1:36.00 1:42.66

Holy Bull 23.63 46.75 1:10.30 1:35.41 1:42.16

Either those were fast OC 3 year olds, or slow stakes horses...

Or maybe they had a different run-up, surface got slower.. not sure...

seems a little strange....

[1GCFAN]

The race fell apart as many of the contenders weren't ready for the two turns, got bad rides, or had trouble. We will see what CP has when there are others ready to go a distance. CP received a 95 beyer.

Can't wait to see him square off with Top Billing.

[Sinner369]

Yes, that 4th race at GP was an allowance Optional claiming at 1 1/16 restricted to 3 years olds...

4th GP 23.88 47.23 1:11.01 1:36.00 1:42.66

Holy Bull 23.63 46.75 1:10.30 1:35.41 1:42.16

Either those were fast OC 3 year olds, or slow stakes horses...

Or maybe they had a different run-up, surface got slower.. not sure...

seems a little strange....


Based on the fractions and running style......Cairo Prince is the faster horse.

[Bullet Plane]

I haven't made up my mind yet, but apparently, it was a fast allowance race. Connections are considering a stakes next:

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/83034/top-billing-breaks-out-in-allowance-effort

[CincyHorseplayer]

Yes, that 4th race at GP was an allowance Optional claiming at 1 1/16 restricted to 3 years olds...

4th GP 23.88 47.23 1:11.01 1:36.00 1:42.66

Holy Bull 23.63 46.75 1:10.30 1:35.41 1:42.16

Either those were fast OC 3 year olds, or slow stakes horses...

Or maybe they had a different run-up, surface got slower.. not sure...

seems a little strange....

Both winners were hand ridden and won big and they are developing 3 year olds so right now we don't have any answers.They aren't going to run as fast as equinely possible so we can slam the ham over final times ya know?!

[iceknight]

By the way, I have a general question here. Is is more of a training style that certain horses end up being E types whereas others end up being S types etc

Most of Baffert horses seem to go the early speed route, while Shug's horses mostly seem to be the Closing type (these are very anecdotal remarks but I know Lure was an early speed freak exception for Shug way back) but most recently i was thinking of about this Top Billing, Honor code, Orb etc.. and contrast that with Bodemeister etc for Baffert.

Or does a good trainer adapt from the horse's natural inclination and then train him/her accordingly. (eg RA vs Zenyatta training programs)