NJ Horsemen and Betfair agree on Exchange wagering

[thespaah]

I apologize in advance if there is such a thread in existence. I did not check the handicapping forum...
Anyway...
http://www.drf.com/news/new-jersey-horsemen-betfair-have-tentative-deal-exchange-wagering

[Stillriledup]

You can bet on horses to lose also in PM pools, no difference. Well, actually, there is a difference.....people can 'hide' their 'bet againsts' in the PM pools much more easily than they can hide on the exchange wager. You can "stiff" a horse in a regular betting pool and nobody will be the wiser....if you stiff on the exchange and 'unusual' betting shows up, you will get caught.

[edmond1]

"Betfair says that it closely monitors its service and alerts regulatory authorities to suspicious bets."

The biggest joke I ever heard. I have been on this exchange(betting on U.S. horse racing) for years now and have witnessed everything possible. 4 to 5's going off at 3-1 or higher on Betfair finishing nowhere. Who would be willing to offer 3-1 on a 4-5 shot for thousands of dollars ?? I never heard of any investigations.

"Drazin said that he does not have concerns that exchange wagering will significantly cannibalize existing parimutuel handle on the track’s races, in large part because betting is limited to straight wagers."

The most ignorant comment I have ever heard. Did he conduct a study to prove his theory. All I can tell you is that Betfair is a very addictive product. Once you start betting(trading) on this exchange the chances are very great that you will no longer have any interest in betting anywhere else. Why would you when their takeout is currently 3 to 5%. Trust me, anyone I know that has started trading on Betfair rarely bets into the pools anymore - this includes long time die hard tote bettors. Several have now actually quit betting horses period since conversion to Dish Network feeds - for obvious reasons.

Does he not understand that Betfair has for years now "significantly cannibalized existing parimutuel handle" ? Betfair has offered U.S. Horse Racing markets for years now with millions getting matched there everyday. I am still trying to find out what Betfair gives the tracks now. They do they pay, right ??

[Big Sal]

I can't believe we have a person hand-wringing and speaking out against Betting Exchanges...and at Pace Advantage no less.

Yes, genuine 4/5 shots are being traded at 3/1 with great liquidity and run up the track all. of. the. time.

Give me a break.

Benjamin Franklin said "They who would give up Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

It takes a pretty special person to be opposed to betting exchanges, because of utter BS about the potential for increased larceny or because "it's addictive, and after people do it, they won't want to bet into the tote pools anymore"

You sound like the kind of guy who would have railed against trifecta's 40 years ago.

[Stillriledup]

I can't believe we have a person hand-wringing and speaking out against Betting Exchanges...and at Pace Advantage no less.

Yes, genuine 4/5 shots are being traded at 3/1 with great liquidity and run up the track all. of. the. time.

Give me a break.

Benjamin Franklin said "They who would give up Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

It takes a pretty special person to be opposed to betting exchanges, because of utter BS about the potential for increased larceny or because "it's addictive, and after people do it, they won't want to bet into the tote pools anymore"

You sound like the kind of guy who would have railed against trifecta's 40 years ago.

Anyone who is against the exchanges has a vested interest to NOT see them succeed....so, when you read anti exchange wagering posts, its from someone who is anti-player.

[Some_One]

4-5's can go off at 3-1 at Sunland easily because of how much odds change in the last flash. And about the cannobiliation of handle, Win/Place betting is maybe 20% of handle these days, and the other 80% the tracks keep is at a much higher takeout, also there is evidence of increased overall handle, Betfair + totes when they began in Australia.

Also finally BF has been offering Mth in the past, it would be interesting to see if this will be just for NJ residents only, and the rest of the world will continue with their own pool. Also the commission % will be key, currently America/Europe is 5% and Australia is 6.5%

[Seabiscuit@AR]

there is something to what edmond1 says. Betfair should monitor their markets more closely than they do and close the accounts of those not playing fairly. If they did this they would not need the premium charges

However Betfair in its present form is still miles ahead of the current rebated tote product offered by racetracks across America. The rebated tote product will die out over time without Betfair entering the market

Betfair operating on NJ races is a positive development

[Fox]

I can't believe we have a person hand-wringing and speaking out against Betting Exchanges...and at Pace Advantage no less.

Yes, genuine 4/5 shots are being traded at 3/1 with great liquidity and run up the track all. of. the. time.

Give me a break.



I just checked my betfair records for the last 3 months of last year which includes a majority of the US races on Betfair. Of the 630 odds on favorites in my database, only 1 of them had a Betfair closing price that was more than double its track final price (track odds +1). He finished 3rd. Doesn't seem nearly as dramatic as Edmond makes it sound. Maybe he can give an example.

[Robert Goren]

Wait until Betfair extracts its winner tax from some of its supporters here and see how much they still love it.

[classhandicapper]

I can't believe we have a person hand-wringing and speaking out against Betting Exchanges...and at Pace Advantage no less.

Yes, genuine 4/5 shots are being traded at 3/1 with great liquidity and run up the track all. of. the. time.

Give me a break.

Benjamin Franklin said "They who would give up Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

It takes a pretty special person to be opposed to betting exchanges, because of utter BS about the potential for increased larceny or because "it's addictive, and after people do it, they won't want to bet into the tote pools anymore"

You sound like the kind of guy who would have railed against trifecta's 40 years ago.

I agree.

I spent a couple of years playing on E-Horse Exchange before it was closed. I think you'd have to be a madman to think exchange betting is a bad idea for the players. The prices I got were occasionally much better than at the track and I had the option of booking bets when I hated a horse but had no real positive opinion elsewhere in the race. (that doesn't even count the arbitrage opportunities I had for awhile where they were basically giving money away)

I could see some hesitancy on the part of tracks/owners to make sure good deals are negotiated, but if you are player, this is the best news I've heard in awhile.

[thespaah]

Wait until Betfair extracts its winner tax from some of its supporters here and see how much they still love it.
Mr Cynicism strikes again?
Tell me, do you oppose sunny days?

[Stillriledup]

Wait until Betfair extracts its winner tax from some of its supporters here and see how much they still love it.

But don't they only "tax" people who not only consistently win, but win a LOT?

[Fox]

But don't they only "tax" people who not only consistently win, but win a LOT?

If your lifetime profit on Betfair is over 1500 usd, you are eligible for the basic premium charge of 20%. The 40% to 60% premium charge is targeted at accounts with lifetime gross over 400000 usd.

[Shemp Howard]

I hope Penn National horseman sign up next.

I should be able to retire flush fading a stable that currently has lost over 60 races in a row and counting.

You only live once and if you do it right, once is more than enough.

[Saratoga_Mike]

I hope Penn National horseman sign up next.

I should be able to retire flush fading a stable that currently has lost over 60 races in a row and counting.

You only live once and if you do it right, once is more than enough.

You have an uncanny ability to bring ANY topic back to R Stable. The topic could be Mother Theresa and you could connect it to R Stable.

[PaceAdvantage]

You have an uncanny ability to bring ANY topic back to R Stable. The topic could be Mother Theresa and you could connect it to R Stable.Obsession doesn't seem to begin to explain it...

[Hoofless_Wonder]

Dang. I never, ever thought I'd see a good reason to move to New Jersey, but there it is....

[Stillriledup]

Dang. I never, ever thought I'd see a good reason to move to New Jersey, but there it is....

Sportsbetting is on the way too in NJ! ;)

[mannyberrios]

Dang. I never, ever thought I'd see a good reason to move to New Jersey, but there it is....Nice one

[Some_One]

If your lifetime profit on Betfair is over 1500 usd, you are eligible for the basic premium charge of 20%. The 40% to 60% premium charge is targeted at accounts with lifetime gross over 400000 usd.

If the total commissions paid is less than 20% of profit and give the commission rate will be higher than the 5% currently on NJ racing for International players, it will be a little tougher to reach.

[thaskalos]

New Jersey here we come!

[edmond1]

Anyone who is against the exchanges has a vested interest to NOT see them succeed....so, when you read anti exchange wagering posts, its from someone who is anti-player.

Sorry if I come across that I oppose them - I don't. I think they are great and I have done very well on them. It is unfortunate that U.S. citizens are restricted from betting on them at the current time. Just want to make a point that the very low takeout they charge makes it very appealing. You actually have a chance to make money now. It doesn't take long to see that betting into the high takeout pools is suicidal and hence exacta/pick3's etc. will no longer be of much interest anymore. Since the group of us started on betting exchanges several years ago we have bet millions through there instead of the tote to the point that over 90% of our money bet now is on an exchange........ Also note that the money on there is a lot smarter these days. If something looks too good to be true it usually is.....

[AndyC]

It doesn't take long to see that betting into the high takeout pools is suicidal and hence exacta/pick3's etc. will no longer be of much interest anymore. .....

There will always be interest in bets where a bettor has a chance to bet small and win big. If that wasn't true lotteries would cease to exist.

[Robert Goren]

I like the idea of exchange waging, but I am not sure Betfair is the right outfit to handle it. I am afraid that the way Betfair conducts business may kill the idea before other more bettor friendly companies can get started.

[edmond1]

I like the idea of exchange waging, but I am not sure Betfair is the right outfit to handle it. I am afraid that the way Betfair conducts business may kill the idea before other more bettor friendly companies can get started.

Ladbrokes has bought Betdaq(betting exchange) about a year ago and liquidity on U.S. Horse Racing is improving significantly. No premium charges,lower commissions and excellent customer service.

[edmond1]

There will always be interest in bets where a bettor has a chance to bet small and win big. If that wasn't true lotteries would cease to exist.

We now restrict our bets into pools on pick5/6 carryovers ....

[senortout]

You have an uncanny ability to bring ANY topic back to R Stable. The topic could be Mother Theresa and you could connect it to R Stable.

Wait Wait Don't Tell Me(Pbs radio)

You are, of course, referring to the 'six degrees of Kevin Bacon' syndrome, are you not?

Neato....

[cutchemist42]

Do tracks get a takeout out of the Betfair pools?

[tonypp]

you have to live in nj

[edmond1]

Do tracks get a takeout out of the Betfair pools?

Sent an email to manager of Turf Paradise. His reply below. No way they get 10% of matched amount on exchange - impossible. Also found out that money bet on Betfair tote actually does get mingled with N.A. pool. Questioned his explanation but received no reply........

Mr. Edmond,

To answer your inquiry: Yes, we are aware of the Offshore Betting Exchange. Those Exchange monies, as well as other off-shore pari-mutuel pools on Turf Paradise, are maintained in a separate pool. In other words, these monies do not merge into Turf Paradise’s mutuel pools. There is a monthly accounting with the offshore provider, from which Turf Paradise receives 10% of what is wagered into those separate off-shore pools.













http://service.mail.com/callgate-6.73.1.0/rms/6.73.1.0/attachment/view?folderId=1&messageId=OTg2SQ1UNUQ2OZirBnFuTt9IN9ACJAKZ&attachmentId=image001.jpg@01CF0872.025C2180









Vincent Francia

General Manager

Turf Paradise

1501 W. Bell Road

Phoenix, AZ 85023

602-375-6401

[Seabiscuit@AR]

Betfair's standard offer to racetracks has been 10% of gross profit on the markets offered on Betfair so this is likely what Turf Paradise is getting

[Some_One]

Better than nothing, also worth noting Turf Paradise is actually quite popular on BF, handles of many times the win pool usually, plus whatever UK tote betting they generate.

[LottaKash]

.

I sure could use a "primer" about what betting-exchanges are really all about, and how they may harm or help the racetracks, and especially the players....

Anyone up to the task with info or links....?

.

[Some_One]

1. It's effectively a lower takeout, based on the current 5% International commission rate, it's like playing in ~7% takeout.
2. Fixed odds
3. If you don't like any horse, but really hate a horse, you can bet that horse to lose.
4. Tracks say it hurts them because they get less money, true, in the short run, but the current economic model of US racing is unsustainable long term IMO.
5. Critics say you can fix races since you can bet on a horse losing, true, but it's not too practical (want to make 5K on a 10-1 losing? got to put up 50K or the horse is 2-1 on the tote but 10-1 on betfair? how many alarm bells go off there? and since it's online, every bet placed is logged).
6. In play betting
7. Encouraging a different demographic with a stock market like interface and scalpers.

[Stillriledup]

1. It's effectively a lower takeout, based on the current 5% International commission rate, it's like playing in ~7% takeout.
2. Fixed odds
3. If you don't like any horse, but really hate a horse, you can bet that horse to lose.
4. Tracks say it hurts them because they get less money, true, in the short run, but the current economic model of US racing is unsustainable long term IMO.
5. Critics say you can fix races since you can bet on a horse losing, true, but it's not too practical (want to make 5K on a 10-1 losing? got to put up 50K or the horse is 2-1 on the tote but 10-1 on betfair? how many alarm bells go off there? and since it's online, every bet placed is logged).
6. In play betting
7. Encouraging a different demographic with a stock market like interface and scalpers.

What the "Critics" fail to mention is this. That its much easier to cheat in the regular Pari Mutuel pools for the simple fact that unless you catch a "Signer" none of the money that's wagered is tracked, its all cash and nobody has to put their name on it...with an exchange wagering account, someone has to sign up for the account by providing personal information. How many people who are already cheating in the regular PM pools are going to get the brilliant idea of cheating with an exchange wagering account with their name attached to it? That makes no sense whatsoever, cheats will stay in the regular pools thank you very much. AND, if someone is stupid enough to cheat in the exchange wagering pool, more power to them, its not likely they're going to get away with it.

[Bluto Blutarsky]

Maybe this article can help us better understand exchange wagering.


http://www.examiner.com/article/horseplayers-reality-star-speaks-out-about-exchange-wagering-at-monmouth-park?CID=examiner_alerts_article

[nearco]

.

I sure could use a "primer" about what betting-exchanges are really all about, and how they may harm or help the racetracks, and especially the players....

Anyone up to the task with info or links....?

.

Peer to peer betting.
Let's say you and I are having a beer and watching races, you say you like the 5 horse, I say "i'll give you 4/1", you accept the bet. That's basically what a betting exchange is. It matches up backers with layers. The exchange takes a commission, usually 5% from both sides.

How will it harm players? there is no downside. It's fixed odds. It has lower takeout. It allow you to "bet against" a horse. What more could you want?
How will it help racetracks? Remains to be seen. They won't be getting near as high a percentage of the gambling dollar as they are getting now.

[edmond1]

Betfair's standard offer to racetracks has been 10% of gross profit on the markets offered on Betfair so this is likely what Turf Paradise is getting

Example: Let's say that on a given day a million dollars was matched on all TuP markets (Win and Place). In this case $500,000 was actually exchanged since for some reason Betfair doubles the matched amount. Of this amount I am guessing that maybe 60% or $300,000 is actually exposed/comissionable since some players trade out of their positions before post. That would mean if the average commission rate is 4% then $12,000 minus expenses is the profit that Betfair makes. So then TuP would get approx. $1000-$1200 and Betfair makes approx. $10,000 if what you say is true.

[edmond1]

Just got this email from Betfair today.. Betdaq here I come....

"Dear Edmond1,

At Betfair you always get the best possible products and services. To ensure you continue to get a premium experience, we are increasing the base commission rate on Betfair Exchange markets in your country to 6.5% from January 30th.

You can of course continue to earn significant discounts of up to 60% on this commission rate through the Betfair points system. A full explanation of how your commission is calculated can be found at Betfair Learning (http://content.email.betfair.com/emessageIRS/servlet/IRSL?v=5&a=10086&r=27265&m=938&l=3&e=2&x=2456773.0).

This rate increase does not apply to any promotional markets with a fixed commission rate.

Thank you for your continued business and good luck with your future betting at Betfair.

Yours Sincerely,

Betfair Customer Service"

[BreadandButter]

I'm all for the concept of exchange wagering. However, if BetFair were to operate it as they currently are and charge their premium charges I really have to wonder. The possibility of paying a commission of 40%, 50% or 60% on one's winnings would be insane. :bang:

[Fox]

Just got this email from Betfair today.. Betdaq here I come....

"Dear Edmond1,

At Betfair you always get the best possible products and services. To ensure you continue to get a premium experience, we are increasing the base commission rate on Betfair Exchange markets in your country to 6.5% from January 30th.

You can of course continue to earn significant discounts of up to 60% on this commission rate through the Betfair points system. A full explanation of how your commission is calculated can be found at Betfair Learning (http://content.email.betfair.com/emessageIRS/servlet/IRSL?v=5&a=10086&r=27265&m=938&l=3&e=2&x=2456773.0).

This rate increase does not apply to any promotional markets with a fixed commission rate.

Thank you for your continued business and good luck with your future betting at Betfair.

Yours Sincerely,

Betfair Customer Service"

Yeah, got that too. Have to giggle at the "premium service" line. Regarding Betdaq, liquidity has seemed to prove the last few months. I hope that keeps up.

[LottaKash]

Peer to peer betting.
Let's say you and I are having a beer and watching races, you say you like the 5 horse, I say "i'll give you 4/1", you accept the bet. That's basically what a betting exchange is. It matches up backers with layers. The exchange takes a commission, usually 5% from both sides.

How will it harm players? there is no downside. It's fixed odds. It has lower takeout. It allow you to "bet against" a horse. What more could you want?
How will it help racetracks? Remains to be seen. They won't be getting near as high a percentage of the gambling dollar as they are getting now.

Nearco, and "all others", thank you-much for your input on this subject and my request....:ThmbUp:

I have been handicapping and wagering for over 50-years, so obviously I am no stranger to the game of horseplaying, but in all reality, I was quite disappointed with the information available at any of the suggested links to Exchange Wagering....In fact Betfair seems to assume too much for the "newbie to exchange wagering"....I will have to view their videos more closely, I guess...

I've got the gist of the matter alright, but, my expectation may have been too high, as I would've liked some childlike handholding and have the subject and activity of exchange wagering explained in a; "line by line & column by column" manner....You know, as if someone was explaining what all the data means in a past-performance program....Enough so that after the explanations I would be able to go right to work, and have the expectation that I was doing things correctly and to my advantage...

Thanks all the same people...

[Some_One]

Try this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi5N033s_bQ

[LottaKash]

Try this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi5N033s_bQ

SO, very good....Thx for the link....That is definitely more of what I was looking for....Interesting...

I would love to be able lock in a price....These days I will often have a play that is hanging all thruout the waiting at a very attractive price, only to see it get pounded very late in the wagering...

I can see having an additional way to play in addition to Betfair, as it would give you a choice on prices at times....

But, for the tracks that I play, and the state that I reside (FL) I doubt if I will see this happening in my time...haha..

I would have loved to play as in former times, when you could shop around with Bookies at the tracks to find your"best price"....As in the days of Pittsburgh Phil...:cool:

[Some_One]

I would imagine NJ players will only be able to play on NJ races, not sure if it will be a different pool then the International players. And the International players do have GP and Tam available (Tampa is another very popular signal on BF)

[Bluto Blutarsky]

Soon to be announced- to encourage fuller fields (and more exchange wagering opportunities) at the 2014 Monmouth Park meet, every horse coming out of the starting gate will be guaranteed $1,000. Yes, the $1,000 will be paid out all the way to last place. The plan is somewhat reminiscent of Monmouth Elite meet when they paid $1,500 all the way out to last.
Can you imagine the assortment of horses running in some of these races just to collect the $1,000?

[fmolf]

Soon to be announced- to encourage fuller fields (and more exchange wagering opportunities) at the 2014 Monmouth Park meet, every horse coming out of the starting gate will be guaranteed $1,000. Yes, the $1,000 will be paid out all the way to last place. The plan is somewhat reminiscent of Monmouth Elite meet when they paid $1,500 all the way out to last.
Can you imagine the assortment of horses running in some of these races just to collect the $1,000?
hopefully they will write the condition book with tighter conditions to prevent a parade of 30/1 shots!Thus keeping the larger fields competitive in nature.

[Shemp Howard]

Soon to be announced- to encourage fuller fields (and more exchange wagering opportunities) at the 2014 Monmouth Park meet, every horse coming out of the starting gate will be guaranteed $1,000. Yes, the $1,000 will be paid out all the way to last place. The plan is somewhat reminiscent of Monmouth Elite meet when they paid $1,500 all the way out to last.
Can you imagine the assortment of horses running in some of these races just to collect the $1,000?


I know of a stable at Penn National that should be wearing out the road to the shore if this comes to pass.

15% of $1,000 pays for a lot of breakfast burritos.

[Saratoga_Mike]

I know of a stable at Penn National that should be wearing out the road to the shore if this comes to pass.

15% of $1,000 pays for a lot of breakfast burritos.

You did it again.

A saying comes to mind: "...consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines."

[Shemp Howard]

I know of a stable at Penn National that should be wearing out the road to the shore if this comes to pass.

15% of $1,000 pays for a lot of breakfast burritos.

It's not often someone quotes Ralph Waldo Emerson on PA.

I'm sure the only Emerson Fatso has ever heard of imported his radio from China.

How about this quote from Francois de La Rochefoucauld?

The constancy of the wise is only the talent of concealing the agitation of their hearts.

Did you cover that in French Lit at Harvard like I did?

[Saratoga_Mike]

It's not often someone quotes Ralph Waldo Emerson on PA.

I'm sure the only Emerson Fatso has ever heard of imported his radio from China.

How about this quote from Francois de La Rochefoucauld?

The constancy of the wise is only the talent of concealing the agitation of their hearts.

Did you cover that in French Lit at Harvard like I did?

High school English

[Mineshaft]

damn $1000 to finish last that would pay for at least half my training bill



Anyone know of a decent trainer in NJ might have to get my owners license there

[Saratoga_Mike]

damn $1000 to finish last that would pay for at least half my training bill



Anyone know of a decent trainer in NJ might have to get my owners license there

Costs are a lot higher in NJ than LA, as I'm sure you know.

[Shemp Howard]

I have a client that participates in claiming partnerships operated by the Pewter Stable, racing primarily at PArx and Monmouth.

Their daily is currently $68.00.

[Saratoga_Mike]

I have a client that participates in claiming partnerships operated by the Pewter Stable, racing primarily at PArx and Monmouth.

Their daily is currently $68.00.

That's a fair rate and I believe the trainer has her own money in each of the partnerships.

[Bluto Blutarsky]

I know of a stable at Penn National that should be wearing out the road to the shore if this comes to pass.

15% of $1,000 pays for a lot of breakfast burritos.

Shemp- The breakdown is going to be $700 to the owner and $300 to the trainer. As you may guess, the NJTHA board (lapdog for Drazin) has a lot of trainers on the board.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Shemp- The breakdown is going to be $700 to the owner and $300 to the trainer. As you may guess, the NJTHA board (lapdog for Drazin) has a lot of trainers on the board.

That's outrageous. The $300 trainer fee should be deducted from their 10% cut.

[Mineshaft]

Costs are a lot higher in NJ than LA, as I'm sure you know.



Yep but trainers at FG are right in line with NJ maybe even a tad higher.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Yep but trainers at FG are right in line with NJ maybe even a tad higher.

didn't know that

[Mineshaft]

didn't know that




I think Assmussen was 80-85 a day and that was 4-5 years ago. Im sure Amoss is around that also. Stall I would guess is anywhere from 80-100 a day but im just guessing.

[The Hawk]

My question is will this generate enough interest from strictly NJ players to generate a viable market? What do you guys think?

[Some_One]

If it's just NJ only, it's trouble, the poker sites now launched are struggling, they should have joined up with Nevada. The same will be true for the exchange if they can't join the international pool.

[Stillriledup]

This is in the news again.

Maybe getting close to passing and being implemented?

Lets hope!

[biggestal99]

1. Will we (I live in Jersey) be allowed to bet on all betfair tracks or be restricted to monmouth

2. Will we bet into the betfair international exchange or be logjammed into forming our own.

3.what about our commission rate?

June 16th can,t get here soon enough

Allan

[Stillriledup]

1. Will we (I live in Jersey) be allowed to bet on all betfair tracks or be restricted to monmouth

2. Will we bet into the betfair international exchange or be logjammed into forming our own.

3.what about our commission rate?

June 16th can,t get here soon enough

Allan

All good questions, a month from now we might find out!

[Mike_412]

1. Will we (I live in Jersey) be allowed to bet on all betfair tracks or be restricted to monmouth

2. Will we bet into the betfair international exchange or be logjammed into forming our own.

3.what about our commission rate?

June 16th can,t get here soon enough

Allan

What's going on June 16th in regard to exchange wagering? I haven't seen anything new regarding it. Thanks.

[Stillriledup]

What's going on June 16th in regard to exchange wagering? I haven't seen anything new regarding it. Thanks.
http://www.drf.com/news/new-jersey-begin-public-comment-period-exchange-wagering

[Mike_412]

Thanks SRU. I completely missed that article.

[biggestal99]

Well the proposed rules for jersey have been published, we will be able to access others pools bsides monmouth and get our wagers matched by outsiders, so that will help liquidity

No rules about commission other than "reasonable profit"

Allan

[Fox]

Well the proposed rules for jersey have been published, we will be able to access others pools bsides monmouth and get our wagers matched by outsiders, so that will help liquidity

No rules about commission other than "reasonable profit"

Allan

Could you please provide a link? I am struggling to find it through searching.

Thank you.

[biggestal99]

Convoluted.

http://www.LexisNexis.com/njoal/

Click " I Agree"

Search documents cite (drop down menu)

46 N.J.R. 1424

Click on link

48 pages

Allan

[Stillriledup]

So if Betfair is going to run this exchange, why not just let people of NJ sign up with the real betfair?

[Some_One]

Well the proposed rules for jersey have been published, we will be able to access others pools bsides monmouth and get our wagers matched by outsiders, so that will help liquidity

No rules about commission other than "reasonable profit"

Allan

If that means NJ players can also join in on NYRA tracks, grab your popcorn and watch the fireworks begin.

[Fox]

we will be able to access others pools bsides monmouth and get our wagers matched by outsiders,
Allan

13:74C-5.10 Interstate exchange pools permissible

"Where approved by the Commission, and where the exchange wagering licensee demonstrates by clear and convincing evidence that a proposed interstate exchange pool is consistent with law in all respects, an interstate exchange pool may be offered. An interstate exchange pool may be established in this State, in another state, or a foreign nation. Regardless of where established, the unmatched exchange wagers of New Jersey exchange wagering account holders shall be matched with unmatched exchange wagers, within the interstate exchange pool, to form identically opposing matched wagers."

[biggestal99]

If that means NJ players can also join in on NYRA tracks, grab your popcorn and watch the fireworks begin.

Why? Betfair already runs an exchange on NYRA tracks. Hooray no more odds late second odds fluctuation for NJ players.

Allan

[biggestal99]

So if Betfair is going to run this exchange, why not just let people of NJ sign up with the real betfair?

You can bet sports on UK betfair, not permissible in Jersey.

Allan

[Stillriledup]

You can bet sports on UK betfair, not permissible in Jersey.

Allan

Thanks.

[SandyW]

Where are they going to get customers that believe everything is honest??
Losing a race is a lot easier then trying to win a race.
This will be a tough road to go down.

[Stillriledup]

Where are they going to get customers that believe everything is honest??
Losing a race is a lot easier then trying to win a race.
This will be a tough road to go down.

But, all the accounts have a name to them...so, if you're going to pull shenanigans on the exchange, they'll know who you are. In the regular PM pools, you can pull off a coup and nobody has to know, its all cash (it could be all cash if you want it to be) and anonymous.

Another factor is this, and this is a factor you don't have in the regular pari mutuel pools...and that is if Betfair (or whoever is running the show) decides there is some 'unusual betting' they just can say "we're not paying". There might be a precedent with this, but i'm not exactly sure how that works, someone who has a BF account and knows the ins and outs of BF can chime in and explain this better.

[SandyW]

But, all the accounts have a name to them...so, if you're going to pull shenanigans on the exchange, they'll know who you are. In the regular PM pools, you can pull off a coup and nobody has to know, its all cash (it could be all cash if you want it to be) and anonymous.

Another factor is this, and this is a factor you don't have in the regular pari mutuel pools...and that is if Betfair (or whoever is running the show) decides there is some 'unusual betting' they just can say "we're not paying". There might be a precedent with this, but i'm not exactly sure how that works, someone who has a BF account and knows the ins and outs of BF can chime in and explain this better.

There are many beards playing and representing other people betting horses.
Also, how do you think it would go over if Betfair refused to pay?
This will be a big flop just like New Jersey's internet poker is.

[Stillriledup]

There are many beards playing and representing other people betting horses.

There's still someone's name and SS number on the account. I think the bottom line remains that Betfair is 10X more "concerned" about shady dealings than regular tracks are and i think that anyone who bets exchange wagers will feel confident that this is the case.

[biggestal99]

Unsure how adding jersey bettors to already existing exchange pools will make one iota of difference. They already have exchange wagering at various US tracks. For instance the NYRA already allows a betfair exchange pool. Haven.t heard of any problems.

Exchange wagering is great for the horse player (low commission-fixed odds)

I see no negatives with allowing people to bet on a betting exchange.


Allan

[Stillriledup]

Unsure how adding jersey bettors to already existing exchange pools will make one iota of difference. They already have exchange wagering at various US tracks. For instance the NYRA already allows a betfair exchange pool. Haven.t heard of any problems.

Exchange wagering is great for the horse player (low commission-fixed odds)

I see no negatives with allowing people to bet on a betting exchange.


Allan

There are no negatives behind giving players one more option.

[Stillriledup]

Absolutely hated Majestic Hussar in the 5th at the Spa Today, but instead of getting to specifically bet against him, i was forced to try and pick the winner...which, i didnt. The horse i bet on lost the jock and i was correct, yet, lost money on the race, as i had to be correct twice in order to cash.

[biggestal99]

Absolutely hated Majestic Hussar in the 5th at the Spa Today, but instead of getting to specifically bet against him, i was forced to try and pick the winner...which, i didnt. The horse i bet on lost the jock and i was correct, yet, lost money on the race, as i had to be correct twice in order to cash.

or the second option if you like chalkie lay the second choice. There are so many possibilities with exchange wagering (including in-running betting)
not sure how ANY horseplayer can be against the exchange.

Allan

[Stillriledup]

or the second option if you like chalkie lay the second choice. There are so many possibilities with exchange wagering (including in-running betting)
not sure how ANY horseplayer can be against the exchange.

Allan

horseplayers arent against it for the most part, its the horsemen who feel they can't get their "share".

[Some_One]

Absolutely hated Majestic Hussar in the 5th at the Spa Today, but instead of getting to specifically bet against him, i was forced to try and pick the winner...which, i didnt. The horse i bet on lost the jock and i was correct, yet, lost money on the race, as i had to be correct twice in order to cash.

Horse went off at 4.34 on Betfair SP, meaning to win 10 bucks (minus commission) you would of had to put up 43.40 dollars.

[biggestal99]

Horse went off at 4.34 on Betfair SP, meaning to win 10 bucks (minus commission) you would of had to put up 43.40 dollars.


4.34 is 3-1 not 4-1. outcomes for laying 10 on 4.34 are win (horse loses) 10 bucks (minus commission) or lose 33.40.

2.00 is evens, 3.00 is 2-1, 4.00 is 3-1 etc....

It takes a bit of getting used to. :-)

Allan

[Some_One]

4.34 is 3-1 not 4-1. outcomes for laying 10 on 4.34 are win (horse loses) 10 bucks (minus commission) or lose 33.40.

2.00 is evens, 3.00 is 2-1, 4.00 is 3-1 etc....

It takes a bit of getting used to. :-)

Allan

Sorry my fault for making it confusing, the betfair SP was 5.34 and I meant to say 4.34-1.

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