Tampa Insights

[slihawk]

I thought for those who are unfamiliar with Tampa, here are some insights into tricky track. Any feedback is welcomed

I find that the Jockeys are the most important factor at this quirky track especially on turf. That final turn is well challenging...my buddy has spoken with track maintenance who finally are looking how grass is cut on that turn at least that's what they told him.

(A Jocks):in no particular order....I will not bet a horse that doesn't have one of theses ten. Sure u get beat once in a while but....
Centeno-came in late and starting to get going
Serpa-especially on turf
RD Allen-very aggressive love him GS Bennet's main man
Spieth- a price jock underrated here
Butler-another underrated look for Rhone riding son-in-law
Feliciano-RED hot. He has 4 today all going off at 10-1
Q Hamilton-not that great on this turf
Ferrer-doesnt ride a lot but deadly on turf
Gallardo-Ness's main man Good all around
Vega-old timer showing the kids he still has it
A disclaimer...During Stakes days the outside riders come in and do great
also a big outfits seem to use W Martinez which I don't understand but now that Centeno is back he will probably get the mounts

(B Jocks) I will wager on them in certain conditions
Pedroza-only with Ward and Pecoraro
Perez-almost put in A
W Martinez- like I said eariler the Big outfits ride him when they don't bring the big guns in. He loses on a lot of short prices beware
M Allen-if you want a big price Ward puts him up on live ones
St Julien-been doing OK having trouble on Turf course
Perez- has had better meets

I know some say the jocks don't matter or matter very little
But at Tampa year after year betting on jocks not listed will have you pulling your hair out.

I will do the trainers if you guys find this useful if not
never mind
Have a great day racing
Oh one more thing it is cold down here and when it is the dirt track becomes VERY friendly to front runners

[lamboguy]

i tend to follow the exercise riders more than the jockeys. they do have a few real good exercise guys there, better than the days when i had to send my own to get on my horses in the morning.

[slihawk]

well that's different lol
I forgot L Garcia as A jock and he looks like he can have a big day today

[lamboguy]

well that's different lol
I forgot L Garcia as A jock and he looks like he can have a big day todaythat would make Herson S. real happy.

[jahura2]

Thanks slihawk. Am visiting family in Palm Harbor in February and am happy to read any further insights you have as I will be at the downs for a few days.
Used to live there going back to the Florida Downs days but have been removed for quite awhile and dont play it much online.
I was aware of Allen, Centeno and Serpa and have been watching Vegas' progress as he has brought in some decent prices.

[slihawk]

Bring some warmth with you
I live in Palm Harbor
Harry was all out in first nice stretch run

[Clocker]

I will do the trainers if you guys find this useful if not
never mind


Always looking for more info. Thanks

Here is the BrisNet summary (http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/editorial/article.cgi?id=345) for the meet so far. Looks like all the hot jockeys are on your list.

[slihawk]

Thanks clocker
I prepared this from memory
Good to see I still have one
RD Allen knows its a speedway today

[cutchemist42]

Winnipeg/ASD guy here, have been loving this track on the Saturdays/Sundays I bet on it.

[slihawk]

its a great track to go to as well as betting
RD had some day

[Clocker]

RD had some day

4 wins, 2 place, 1 show, all paying chump change. Do the top jockeys have a big impact on betting there, or was he just riding all chalk today?

[slihawk]

You can get prices on RD but when the track has a speed bias I know I want RD he's a good gate jock and he doesn't go wide on turn
Im sure Im not telling a secret

If Daniel keeps getting hot the public will jump all over him...now is the time to play him, especially on weekends...Ill go out on a limb without looking at entries and say he'll have some nice paying horses this weekend

ha watch him go out of town

[IrishRail76]

slihawk, great review of TAM jockeys...spot on. I lived in Dunedin, between Tampa and St. Pete, and I truly enjoyed both the weather and the people. BTW, is the elder Allen still a trainer/owner?

[slihawk]

yes he is
M Allen is a real nice guy...he hangs with us sometimes (since he doesn't get a lot of mounts) Like I said D Ward will put him on live ones. D Ward also hangs with us....You would think knowing Allen, Ward , Gatis we would have winners to spare but noooo
I always respected trainers who will only say as Gatis always says "he got a shot" When I ask Dennis he always mockingly (is that a word?) by "open lenths" of course he says that to me all the time.

It was cold again last night which means SPEED

[CincyHorseplayer]

While I'm still searching for what constitutes the perfect turf horse at Tampa I do know that the big closers that can dominate on larger courses can't here unless they simply outclass the field.In younger runners winners often have a big pace figure and competitive final figure much like dirt but with older runners it seems to me that the even keel runners win,practically across the board identical figures ie,74-76-73/70.And the outside posts are such harbingers of doom they keep them to 10 horse fields.

I'd love to hear your thoughts about this particular turf course because I've had steam coming out of my ears plenty here!

[slihawk]

The last turn on this turf course has been cut in a way that the horses will follow the grain and go wide that's why I insist on jocks who have proven that they can handle this. I thought this was just a crazy position I had until people on this board confirmed my theory as well as some friends at track that I respect. Like I said earlier one of buddies confronted maintenance and 1st time they blew him off as nuts. But the other day he came up to my friend and said their looking into it.

[slihawk]

also remember the turf course is inside the mile dirt oval so the turns r tight.
Don't get me wrong the maintenance crew do a great job on this course it is very well maintained

[slihawk]

Guys LMK if Im sounding like an know it all. Im certainly still learning like all of us
Im going to go trough the 4th race on tuf today
I welcome all comments

#1Sheppard-I don't have any stats just memory here so correct me if Im wrong but Sheppard is horrible at Tampa

#2 Serpa gest this course but trainer Im not too confident and appears slower than most

#3 Ryan/Centeno 5-1 love this connection

#4Motion so must respect but jock having hard time here...not taken 5/2 on jock that doesn't impress me even though he does well elsewhere

#5 much respected trainer that puts jocks on that don't won on turf..I like Rossi but NOT on this turf

#6 Ness ..so its a no bet race for me...Im not one that calls him a crook they haven't caught him so I respect I just wont bet against him

#7 1 for 23 lifetime and 1 for 12 at Tampa not too encouraging. But he did win on this course this meet Jock unknown to me and he's having a hard time here 30-1 hmmm I would insist on every bit of 30-1

#8 Trainer capable jock is great on main track but still doesn't get the turf here

ok that's how I handicap on Tampa's Turf
If Ness wasn't in race Id be all over the 3 horse with the 7 a price play

[slihawk]

6th race turf
there is no way Id bet the two morning line favs
#2 Ryan so must respect but he usually uses Danny I have no faith in Rossi on this course
#3 there is no way Im betting a 1 o/o trainer Serpa on and coming close with her..not with my $$$
so
#9 Maker and Willie...Willie is having a good meet and he knows this course
#8 Y did Danny take this horse over Ryans horse? He was claimed by McBride who is having a good meet...putting on grass again which she is bred

[HUSKER55]

thanks for your input.

[slihawk]

8th turf
#1 Ryan and Danny tuff to look any further
#3 deep closer for Steward who in years past burned up this track but not this year Jock no help pass
#6 going for 3 in row Willie but looking elsewhere
#7 Ward and Mike Allen I will play this one off layoff
#9 here r two oldtimers Harry and Dinner one of the most popular horses on grounds I think they were praying for rain..but this horse wins here every year at price

[slihawk]

10th turf
#1 Delacour/Serpa is a great combo. This mare has health problems do to layoff line but Delacour has them ready
#2 Ice and Butler r good combo. Butler is my fav jock on turf course
2nd off layoff back to turf Im in
#3 Ness %^&#@ excuse me for language
#5 Danny on good one but will be bet with Ness's horse

If Ness wasn't here Id love the 1 and 2

Well that's it
Time to get ready for track
Good luck all

[slihawk]

Hello all
hope everybody's having a wonderful Sunday

I thought Id give my impressions on Turf of Tampa along with J/T angles

In no particular order:

The Wards Dennis and Wesley (son and father)
Great horseman and must respect..Dennis is one of the few trainers here that can put a non "A" jock in a race and win..his goto guy is Pedroza and then Mike Allen
As for Wesley he ships in to win..must use

Motion uses Serpa as main jock...year after year he sends out winners especially young turfers

Ness oh boy you know my stance on him. Im told he is a tireless worker and it shows...if he has a kink its the turf

Proctor see Motion...a must use

The Bennets...they are at top of standings every year...heres something you may not know, GB is better than D on turf GB's main man is RD

Rhone an relatively unknown for those that don't follow Tampa..Watch when he puts Butler up especially when switches to him
RD main man

Wilkes deadly here main man RD

Ice I don't understand him he uses non A jocks and he's paying the price so far...Im waiting for him to switch to A jocks and bet with both fist

Steward..was deadly in past meets but struggling this year Im waiting for his barn to come alive.

Kathleen O'Connell is struggling on turf

Joan Scott main jock Gallardo must respect year after year

oh by the way the last turn on turf course was fixed you can clearly see it

Jock Pedroza makes the A list

When I say the jocks on the A list is all I bet, well we all make exceptions or reanalyze ...and this only applies to the WIN position anybody can clunk up

I also have to adjust my thinking on Willie Martinez...he is having an excellent meet especially on turf

as always tell me to shutup if Im acting like an know it all... just trying to help some that are unfamiliar with this quirky track

Im' going to be going to Gulfstream in March and I very rarely play there so Im going to ask for some insights from you guys
All I know is Paco and more Paco and of course Pletcher...boy he seems to win every race he enters

[slihawk]

So Willie and Pedroza on the A list

S Spieth is having a hard time on this turf course

Quincy is figuring the turf course out..some never do

[Ocala Mike]

I posed this question earlier in this thread or in another thread or another forum somewhere:

Does anyone ever catch Herkova on anything live? Isn't she an anchor?

[therussmeister]

I posed this question earlier in this thread or in another thread or another forum somewhere:

Does anyone ever catch Herkova on anything live? Isn't she an anchor?
And I believe I answered you in that other thread. She is a career 4% winner, so yes, you can catch her on something live about once every 25 mounts, which based on her riding frequency means roughly every other month.

[Clocker]

The guys on TVG were talking about shippers to Tampa today. The opinion was that shippers from Calder were usually competitive on the dirt at the same class. They said that turf shippers, even from Gulfstream, find Tampa turf races harder to beat than comparable class levels would indicate.

One of them (Matt) mentioned in passing that he thought that Joan Scott was one of the better turf trainers there. I checked, and she has had 8 entries on the turf so far this meet, with 2 wins and 2 seconds.

Current jockey and trainer stats, with turf and dirt break outs, are available HERE. (http://www.equibase.com/premium/eqpJTStandings.cfm)

[slihawk]

I try to never say anything bad about a jock or trainer unless I have proof
Im sure Lucy tries hard but I just wont bet her at this time
The only female I will bet at Tampa at this time is Rossi but not on turf

Watch Ward put CAROL Cedeno on a horse..if you see it bet

Tampa is a very tuff track if you r a marginal jock...just look at how few apprentice come here and succeed...very few

The six in the 9th race cost me thousands and Im not a big bettor

Rhone/Butler scored again

How about Ward BAM

Notes to self:
The 1 pp on turf stinks

the 11 Chief Cochise should of won by open lenths....couldn't load him 11PP
and got out last.... I didn't have him but I will next time

that's all folks