Paddock Inspector wanted.

[pktruckdriver]

I am posting here for a friend who would like to see if he could have me help him locate a few , "Paddock Handicapper", or "Physicality Handicapping", according to Mr. Takach.

Now I too am interested in this approach and will be very interested in any response I can get.

We are looking for someone who does 1 track at a time, someone not so well organized that they are selling paddock reports or some such thing.

We are looking for a true horse person, someone who can tell, as well as we can , if a horse is fit and looking like he/she is ready to perform today, or if something may look out of place. This takes practice and like all handicapping is a continuous learning process. We are not looking for simulcasting , but on track people with clear paddock access. Or be able to see the horses during the paddock time.

We are interested in talking to anyone who does this or feels there are capable of this .

I know I may get many .... who wish to get one over on old PK, and if you must , then this is the time.

PM me or ask more questions here in this thread


Patrick

[green80]

The track vet is in the paddock inspecting the horses. They also do a pre-race vet check.You see vet scratches all the time. If looks can tell you something is wrong with the horse, certainly the track vet would catch it before the untrained eye. Just looking at the horse to see if he is fit is next to impossible.

Over many years I have seen many horses that look bad but run good. (and the other way around)
I think you would get better results from your handicapping efforts if you looked in other areas.

[pondman]

What tracks?

Is this for Takach?

Do they have to do any of the gambling?

What is the compensation?

I know a number of people who ride in the mornings in S cal. But they don't really gamble. They would do it for pay. My wife might be interested. But she doesn't really want to gamble like this as you are suggesting. And she's really mean.

What exactly do you need? Someone to watch the warm up?

[JustRalph]

What tracks? But she doesn't really want to gamble like this as you are suggesting. And she's really mean.

:lol: :lol: that's great........

[traynor]

A suggestion. Try to find someone who is an expert in visual inspection specifically for wagering. It is a totally different mindset, and one that very few trainers, jockeys, and even vets are able to use. Generalities like "this horse looks happy" or "that horse looks like it can really run" are interesting, make good conversation, and are mostly worthless for betting purposes.

The best I have ever seen are the Argentines. Their particular area of expertise is in the paddock--watching (and noting) the interplay between the horses while the people are bumbling around saddling them. Specifically, the outcome of numerous races is determined by the pecking order of the horses in the particular grouping in that race.

The weakness of "physicality" is focusing on one horse at a time. That is all well and good, but horses are--first, last, and always--herd animals. Their survival depends on an intimate knowledge of how to interact with the other members of that particualr herd. Anyone who doesn't understand how important that is should probably not be advising others on how to "interpret the body language of horses."

If you are unfamiliar with "the Argentines," they are a group of fairly serious bettors who frequent a number of tracks on the right coast. Ask around. They are friendly enough, and quite willing to offer their opinions on a particular race (or horse) to others. I have learned a lot from them over the years.

[pktruckdriver]

A suggestion. Try to find someone who is an expert in visual inspection specifically for wagering. It is a totally different mindset, and one that very few trainers, jockeys, and even vets are able to use. Generalities like "this horse looks happy" or "that horse looks like it can really run" are interesting, make good conversation, and are mostly worthless for betting purposes.

The best I have ever seen are the Argentines. Their particular area of expertise is in the paddock--watching (and noting) the interplay between the horses while the people are bumbling around saddling them. Specifically, the outcome of numerous races is determined by the pecking order of the horses in the particular grouping in that race.

The weakness of "physicality" is focusing on one horse at a time. That is all well and good, but horses are--first, last, and always--herd animals. Their survival depends on an intimate knowledge of how to interact with the other members of that particualr herd. Anyone who doesn't understand how important that is should probably not be advising others on how to "interpret the body language of horses."

If you are unfamiliar with "the Argentines," they are a group of fairly serious bettors who frequent a number of tracks on the right coast. Ask around. They are friendly enough, and quite willing to offer their opinions on a particular race (or horse) to others. I have learned a lot from them over the years.


Thank you. I agree and respect your answer, as when in Saratoga, Argentines were very nice and friendly as were other South American workers, most did the work because they loved horses and enjoyed the work they did. But to get them to help 3-4 times a week in the paddock is really hard due to them still working during this time, especially if they have a horse running that day.

Testing of course must be done, but compensation is definitely a given, nothing should be done for free, but this could and would be decided after some testing is done to see how well we work together and this idea plays out.

Please understand , the ,"WE", here is my friend, not me personally, though I may be involved at first to get things working smoothly.


Tracks that are on the wish list are Summer Churchill, Fairgrounds, Ellis Park (if still running), but having a turf course is desirable.

Thank you

Patrick

[Tape Reader]

A suggestion. Try to find someone who is an expert in visual inspection specifically for wagering. It is a totally different mindset, and one that very few trainers, jockeys, and even vets are able to use. Generalities like "this horse looks happy" or "that horse looks like it can really run" are interesting, make good conversation, and are mostly worthless for betting purposes.

The best I have ever seen are the Argentines. Their particular area of expertise is in the paddock--watching (and noting) the interplay between the horses while the people are bumbling around saddling them. Specifically, the outcome of numerous races is determined by the pecking order of the horses in the particular grouping in that race.

The weakness of "physicality" is focusing on one horse at a time. That is all well and good, but horses are--first, last, and always--herd animals. Their survival depends on an intimate knowledge of how to interact with the other members of that particualr herd. Anyone who doesn't understand how important that is should probably not be advising others on how to "interpret the body language of horses."

If you are unfamiliar with "the Argentines," they are a group of fairly serious bettors who frequent a number of tracks on the right coast. Ask around. They are friendly enough, and quite willing to offer their opinions on a particular race (or horse) to others. I have learned a lot from them over the years.

Wow! That is really great info. Thank you so much for sharing that with us. It just makes so much sense.

I remember reading somewhere that jockeys in the same race with John Henry, were instructed not to let their horse make eye contact with “John” as he was so intimidating.

[eqitec]

To round out my knowledge as a handicapper, I've attempted to learn how to do paddock assessments and even built an app within my software to quickly record my observations of horses on their way to or in the paddock, or from the paddock to the track (see the attachment).

Due to the limited amount of time horses can be observed pre-race, I've only been able to use my app to note what's extraordinary about a few of the horses vs. doing a complete assessment of an entire field. I wish there were more time to do that.

[Fastracehorse]

A suggestion. Try to find someone who is an expert in visual inspection specifically for wagering. It is a totally different mindset, and one that very few trainers, jockeys, and even vets are able to use. Generalities like "this horse looks happy" or "that horse looks like it can really run" are interesting, make good conversation, and are mostly worthless for betting purposes.

The best I have ever seen are the Argentines. Their particular area of expertise is in the paddock--watching (and noting) the interplay between the horses while the people are bumbling around saddling them. Specifically, the outcome of numerous races is determined by the pecking order of the horses in the particular grouping in that race.

The weakness of "physicality" is focusing on one horse at a time. That is all well and good, but horses are--first, last, and always--herd animals. Their survival depends on an intimate knowledge of how to interact with the other members of that particualr herd. Anyone who doesn't understand how important that is should probably not be advising others on how to "interpret the body language of horses."

If you are unfamiliar with "the Argentines," they are a group of fairly serious bettors who frequent a number of tracks on the right coast. Ask around. They are friendly enough, and quite willing to offer their opinions on a particular race (or horse) to others. I have learned a lot from them over the years.

but if a horse is really sharp; he's full of himself; he maybe stalking wide or alone on the lead; there's alot at play here that circumvents instinct ; it happens everyday where horses win easily at a price

fffastt

[traynor]

but if a horse is really sharp; he's full of himself; he maybe stalking wide or alone on the lead; there's alot at play here that circumvents instinct ; it happens everyday where horses win easily at a price

fffastt

Not really. The instincts are herd instincts, rather than individual standout instincts. The most obvious example is on off tracks. The "leaders" will tend to be front runners--not because they are front runners, but rather because front runners tend to be more sure-footed and are less likely to lead the others into problems. With all due respect to those who believe horses hang back on off tracks because they don't want mud kicked in their faces, it is more a case of basic equine herd survival drive.

As for the really sharp horse, full of himself--sometimes yes, and sometimes no. They are much like people--self-confidence is often little more than a cover for a basic lack of courage and real confidence. To distinguish between the two, watch the ears of the other horses entering, in, and leaving the paddock, and in the warmups. Despite the jockeys on their backs, the horses are still trying to sort out the current pecking order. Their ears will tend to point toward the "leader." That leader will often be the (almost) uncontested "winner" of the race.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Not really. The instincts are herd instincts, rather than individual standout instincts. The most obvious example is on off tracks. The "leaders" will tend to be front runners--not because they are front runners, but rather because front runners tend to be more sure-footed and are less likely to lead the others into problems. With all due respect to those who believe horses hang back on off tracks because they don't want mud kicked in their faces, it is more a case of basic equine herd survival drive.

As for the really sharp horse, full of himself--sometimes yes, and sometimes no. They are much like people--self-confidence is often little more than a cover for a basic lack of courage and real confidence. To distinguish between the two, watch the ears of the other horses entering, in, and leaving the paddock, and in the warmups. Despite the jockeys on their backs, the horses are still trying to sort out the current pecking order. Their ears will tend to point toward the "leader." That leader will often be the (almost) uncontested "winner" of the race.

I disagree with most of what you've said here and your prior post. Have you actually worked with or owned horses?

[traynor]

I disagree with most of what you've said here and your prior post. Have you actually worked with or owned horses?

Yes. And I have no problem whatsoever with disagreement. Some of the absolute worst observers of equine behavior are those who "work with or own" horses. That is why I initially commented that the OP might do well to locate those who studied equine behavior from the standpoint of betting on the results of that study.

Like many things in life, simple association does not equate to elevated competence or expertise.

[pktruckdriver]

Hey

Stop by and say hi , as I will be near the paddock looking at the horses this weekend.

I will be easy to spot, I'm normally the biggest guy around, yep still over 400lbs.

It seems finding a inspector was not too successful, oh well , we tried.

Patrick

[Tara73]

If I'm not at the track the one thing I try to notice is the moment when the horse enters the track and is turned over to the outrider. Often times, especially with first time starters, the horse misbehaves and doesn't accept the transfer without acting up. It's often a good indication that the animal won't break sharply and will run poorly.

[turninforhome10]

If I'm not at the track the one thing I try to notice is the moment when the horse enters the track and is turned over to the outrider. Often times, especially with first time starters, the horse misbehaves and doesn't accept the transfer without acting up. It's often a good indication that the animal won't break sharply and will run poorly.
It is more an indication to me, the trainer never properly schooled the horse with a pony in the mornings. Cost money to get a pony person to do this unless your stable has one. Your statement seems to be a bit broad in scope. I might agree with the running poorly part, but have often seen these types break sharp and run rankly not attending the bit.

[magwell]

It is more an indication to me, the trainer never properly schooled the horse with a pony in the mornings. Cost money to get a pony person to do this unless your stable has one. Your statement seems to be a bit broad in scope. I might agree with the running poorly part, but have often seen these types break sharp and run rankly not attending the bit.You are 100 % right, and sometimes the horse will drop the jock and run off when the pony person attempts to take the horse from the groom,but it still can happen even if the horse was schooled with a pony but not very often.

[PICSIX]

IMO, eliminate any horse that short walks...back hoof does not surpass the imprint of the front hoof while horse is walking unimpeded. With just a little practice this is very easy to do. :ThmbUp:

[turninforhome10]

IMO, eliminate any horse that short walks...back hoof does not surpass the imprint of the front hoof while horse is walking unimpeded. With just a little practice this is very easy to do. :ThmbUp:
Very good advice. From sales to racing, this is very good advice. :ThmbUp:
This is a very good video on lameness c9Mn9RP39lE

[davew]

The Horseplayers show has some paddock inspection in the second episode. it starts near minute 38 of the episode.

Christian Hellmers likes to look at the horses in the paddock to 'pick up on energetics'. Gabby Gaudet and Michelle Yu talk about some pick-up points without making up their own terms.

I have been impressed with Jessica Pacheco, Dawn Lupul, and Maggie Wolfendale with their observations in paddock.

My problem with my paddock inspections is it will bump or lower my probabilities of the horses performance, but it is hard for me to decide how much. I have seen big favorites limping and sore in paddock to loosen up in warm-up and having enough back class that they still win. I have also seen horses that look great, but don't figure very high with my handicapping. So what do I do with them? Sometimes they win, sometimes it seems the jockey is using race for tightener, sometimes they just are not fast enough and are competitive until top of stretch and they run out of juice.

If the horse is really bad (and cheap), the jockey will try to get the vet to scratch him rather than run and risk riding a horse that breaks down.

[traynor]

Hey

Stop by and say hi , as I will be near the paddock looking at the horses this weekend.

I will be easy to spot, I'm normally the biggest guy around, yep still over 400lbs.

It seems finding a inspector was not too successful, oh well , we tried.

Patrick
You might consider that your request presents a problem, in that anyone knowledgeable enough to do you any good is able to use their knowledge to make whatever they want or need by applying it, and those who lack the knowledge would be the only ones willing to provide it to others (paid or unpaid).

Handicapping is a strange field--those most willing to "share their knowledge" are those most likely to have knowledge that is of little or no value, and to seek the rewards of an occasional pat on the head as compensation for their inability to gain monetary reward with that knowledge.

The best advice I could give you (or your friend(s)) is to learn it for yourself, rather than "being taught" by others. If you spend any time at all at racetracks, you should be able to completely ignore past performance and the tote board, and watch the horses from the time you can first see them (between barn and paddock) until they leave the track. It should not take long to develop a sense of "what looks good" and "what looks not so good."

Think of it as the equivalent of learning to ride a bicycle. All the "advice" in the world won't do much good until you actually learn do it yourself.

[pktruckdriver]

You might consider that your request presents a problem, in that anyone knowledgeable enough to do you any good is able to use their knowledge to make whatever they want or need by applying it, and those who lack the knowledge would be the only ones willing to provide it to others (paid or unpaid).

Handicapping is a strange field--those most willing to "share their knowledge" are those most likely to have knowledge that is of little or no value, and to seek the rewards of an occasional pat on the head as compensation for their inability to gain monetary reward with that knowledge.

The best advice I could give you (or your friend(s)) is to learn it for yourself, rather than "being taught" by others. If you spend any time at all at racetracks, you should be able to completely ignore past performance and the tote board, and watch the horses from the time you can first see them (between barn and paddock) until they leave the track. It should not take long to develop a sense of "what looks good" and "what looks not so good."

Think of it as the equivalent of learning to ride a bicycle. All the "advice" in the world won't do much good until you actually learn do it yourself.

Yes, while this may be true, sometimes finding the right person is normally a fluke or something done by accident. This time I am posting on a very popular board to see if this would make the process happen quicker, so far it has not. But trying was discussed and we thought worth the try.

Your posts are appreciated and you may be right , learning it ourselves may be best, but neither have time to live at the track to do the required time to learn. At least not yet, maybe in time we will. I would hope so, as being at the track all day sounds wonderful to me. As in Saratoga being there and being part of the backside was like being I heaven to me, ask any who saw me there, saw how huge my smile was.

Well gotta run

Patrick

[traynor]

Yes, while this may be true, sometimes finding the right person is normally a fluke or something done by accident. This time I am posting on a very popular board to see if this would make the process happen quicker, so far it has not. But trying was discussed and we thought worth the try.

Your posts are appreciated and you may be right , learning it ourselves may be best, but neither have time to live at the track to do the required time to learn. At least not yet, maybe in time we will. I would hope so, as being at the track all day sounds wonderful to me. As in Saratoga being there and being part of the backside was like being I heaven to me, ask any who saw me there, saw how huge my smile was.

Well gotta run

Patrick

Understand that it is not the time involved--it is the focus of attention. Many spend endless hours staring at horses in much the same way they spend endless hours staring at past performances or computer screens. There is little or no correlation between the amount of time spent doing something, and the amount learned about that topic. Persistence is all well and good, but it doesn't always lead directly to positive outcomes.

The short version is that if you have enough time to be at the track at all, you have more than enough time to learn how to interpret the behavior (and appearance) of horses. It is not so much a step-by-step learning process, doing what whoever self-proclaimed "expert" says you should do, but simply being aware that horses are living, breathing creatures that behave according to specific patterns. When they feel good, and feel like running, it shows. When they feel crappy, and would rather be back in the barn, that shows, too. And everything in between.

You don't need tons of information or excruciatingly detailed observation data (although it is nice to have). Start with something simple, like watching how the horses move their heads. I made a very good season doing little more than watching for horses in the post parade who shook their heads from side to side. Start with something small, add details as your knowledge increases.

Buena suerte!