Shot to death for texting during movie previews

[horses4courses]

What is it you gun rights advocates say?
Good guys with guns stop bad guys with guns????

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/13/tampa-bay-movie-theater-shooting_n_4590721.html

A 71 year old retired cop in Tampa took exception to a couple texting during movie previews.
Shot a male to death, female critically wounded.
Unconfirmed reports say it was possible one of the victims tossed popcorn at the shooter, and that set him off.
Justifiable homicide? They messed with the wrong guy?

I've heard all the schmiel before....seems to happen a lot in Florida.

[TJDave]

Never take popcorn to a gunfight.

[Tom]

Never take popcorn to a gunfight.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

[ArlJim78]

can't wait to hear about what laws need to be passed to prevent something like this from happening again.

[pandy]

There have been several shootings in movie theaters, probably not a good idea to let people bring guns in at all.

[horses4courses]

Everyone's a frickin' comedian around here.
Making light of a pretty sad event.

When's the last time anyone here is packing heat in a movie theater?
I'd say remind me to stay away from your local theater,
but then that would be what you are trying to accomplish in the first place.

Neanderthals......

[johnhannibalsmith]

Everyone's a frickin' comedian around here.
Making light of a pretty sad event.

...

Neanderthals......

Says the guy who in his first sentence launches into a full on politicization of the tragedy.... :lol:

[horses4courses]

Says the guy who in his first sentence launches into a full on politicization of the tragedy.... :lol:

Oh, yes indeed, sir.

Politicizing? Yes.
I most certainly am not joking about it, though.

Nor do I advocate gun control.
I've said before, it's far too late for that.

I merely point out the absurdity of certain laws in this society we live in.
People who can't fathom this have my sympathy.

[JustRalph]

Retired police officers are allowed to carry concealed weapons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_Enforcement_Officers_Safety_Act

The next time you decide to bad mouth an old man............think twice.

Lots of these guys got nothing to lose

[horses4courses]

Retired police officers are allowed to carry concealed weapons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_Enforcement_Officers_Safety_Act

The next time you decide to bad mouth an old man............think twice.

Lots of these guys got nothing to lose

Better yet, how about anyone who isn't carrying just tape their mouths shut?

[JustRalph]

Better yet, how about everyone who isn't carrying just tape their mouths shut?

Works for me..........

The greatest irony is the film title

[johnhannibalsmith]

Politicizing? Yes.
I most certainly am not joking about it, though.

...

Well that's mighty sincere and sensitive of you.

[Clocker]

Unconfirmed reports say it was possible one of the victims tossed popcorn at the shooter, and that set him off.

Those high-capacity popcorn buckets could really do some damage. Does anyone really need that much popcorn?

[ArlJim78]

I merely point out the absurdity of certain laws in this society we live in.
People who can't fathom this have my sympathy.
which law in this society did you point as being absurd?

[horses4courses]

which law in this society did you point as being absurd?

That just about every swinging dick out there carry a weapon.
It's totally absurd.

[NJ Stinks]

The next time you decide to bad mouth an old man............think twice.

Lots of these guys got nothing to lose


Better yet, just don't make eye contact with anybody let alone talk to anybody.

And forget going out to the movies. Far too risky. Stay at home, close your blinds, and just pray nobody calls.

[JustRalph]

That just about every swinging dick out there carry a weapon.
It's totally absurd.

You're a laugh a minute

[thaskalos]

There have been several shootings in movie theaters, probably not a good idea to let people bring guns in at all.

Especially with the concession prices being what they are...

[Clocker]

That just about every swinging dick out there carry a weapon.
It's totally absurd.

I'd suggest that you check the facts on the history of concealed carry. A shooting like this by someone legally carrying is exceedingly rare. This is the first in the country I have heard about in the ten years or so that I have been actively interested in the subject.

The great majority of gun crimes are committed by people that are already breaking gun control laws as to ownership or carrying.

[JustRalph]

I'd suggest that you check the facts on the history of concealed carry. A shooting like this by someone legally carrying is exceedingly rare. This is the first in the country I have heard about in the ten years or so that I have been actively interested in the subject.

The great majority of gun crimes are committed by people that are already breaking gun control laws as to ownership or carrying.

They are increasing. Because there are lots more CCW owners out there now. You can thank Obama for that.

Two CCW guys killed each other in a road rage deal a while back. You know, the left wing Police Chiefs predicted that would happen every day in America. Apparently it's happened a couple of times in the last ten years.

Still, CCW permit holders are involved in illegal shootings on such a small level it doesn't even register on the radar.

[Clocker]

Stay at home, close your blinds, ...

...and clean your guns.

[JustRalph]

That just about every swinging dick out there carry a weapon.
It's totally absurd.

Don't forget the girls

[Robert Goren]

I'd suggest that you check the facts on the history of concealed carry. A shooting like this by someone legally carrying is exceedingly rare. This is the first in the country I have heard about in the ten years or so that I have been actively interested in the subject.

The great majority of gun crimes are committed by people that are already breaking gun control laws as to ownership or carrying. But not all.

[Robert Goren]

If you really believe the treat of you maybe having a gun is going scare off a criminal, then showing the gun will scare him even more, right?

[BlueShoe]

can't wait to hear about what laws need to be passed to prevent something like this from happening again.
Outlaw and ban smart and cellphones. :rolleyes: If this were actually to happen, it would not upset me one bit.

[sammy the sage]

amazing how some movies actually portray what's going to eventually happen if real life..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yruArw21EGA

God Bless America by Red Band

[FantasticDan]

amazing how some movies actually portray what's going to eventually happen if real life..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yruArw21EGA
A suicidal guy and a teenage girl are going to go on a mean-person murder spree in a satirical Bobcat Goldthwait comedy? :confused:

[johnhannibalsmith]

... Bobcat Goldthwait comedy? ...

I think that is like one of those oxymoron things.

[Robert Goren]

When Nebraska passed it concealed carry law a few years ago, it allowed property owners to bar guns on their property by posting a sign saying were prohibited. Exceptions of course for on-duty police officers. Almost every business put up the signs including a few whose owners fought for the law. I always wonder how would they know if I had a concealed gun or not. I wonder how many concealed carriers actually obeyed the signs.

[Tom]

If you really believe the treat of you maybe having a gun is going scare off a criminal, then showing the gun will scare him even more, right?

More so than showing him your popcorn.

[JustRalph]

On the subject of Florida CCW's and the conduct of CCW holders. there are about 1.2 million active permit holders in Florida. 168 have had their permit revoked for any fires related violations. If you look at the revocations, the numbers are an annual revocation rate of less than 1/10,000th of a percentage point.

The licensing bureau says that the vast majority of revocations have been violations where no one has been hurt, namely people accidentally carrying guns into gun-free zones or forgetting to have their carry permit with them when they are carrying.

I ran across this info online tonight. I thought it might bring back a little context and provide a better picture of what the real nature and condition of people carrying guns legally, in the State of Florida is.

Swinging Dicks aside. Legally carried guns are not a problem in Florida or anywhere else, in the grand scheme of things they don't even register a blip on the radar.

[newtothegame]

Ralph,
Agree whole heartedly! I mean after all, mosty and other libs have regularly said that since fraud is less then something like 2% whats the point in going after it....
2% is much larger then the percentage you mentioned above...so its not a problem!! :lol:

[GaryG]

There have always been assholes in public places that have no consideration for anyone else. Unfortunately, cell phones seem to have magnifed the problem. Not saying this one deserved a death sentence, but he brought it on himself. Also, be careful whom you flip off on the highway because you never know...

[FantasticDan]

There have always been assholes in public places that have no consideration for anyone else. Unfortunately, cell phones seem to have magnifed the problem. Not saying this one deserved a death sentence, but he brought it on himself. Also, be careful whom you flip off on the highway because you never know...A guy murders a 43yo father who was texting his daughter DURING THE PREVIEWS OF A F'ING MOVIE and the father "brought it on himself"?

Tell me, what was a more deplorable act.. texting, or shooting an unarmed man standing next to his wife point blank with a .38 semi-automatic in a movie theater??

And yet, it's the former act that gets the criticism? :bang: :bang: :ThmbDown:

[thaskalos]

There have always been assholes in public places that have no consideration for anyone else. Unfortunately, cell phones seem to have magnifed the problem. Not saying this one deserved a death sentence, but he brought it on himself. Also, be careful whom you flip off on the highway because you never know...

The guy who was texting during the movie had "no consideration for anyone else"...but the guy who opened fire in the movie theater did?

This has to be the most ridiculous comment that I've ever read here at paceadvantage.

[Tom]

The guy who was texting during the movie had "no consideration for anyone else"...but the guy who opened fire in the movie theater did?

Did he get applause?

[FantasticDan]

Wow, this scooter guy who exceeded the express-line limit was really lucky he wasn't gunned down.. he obviously had no consideration for anyone else.. :bang:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/walmart-express-lane-rage-675432

[Tom]

Without rules, we would have anarchy.

[woodtoo]

With rules we also have anarchy.:)

[NJ Stinks]

Wow, this scooter guy who exceeded the express-line limit was really lucky he wasn't gunned down.. he obviously had no consideration for anyone else.. :bang:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/walmart-express-lane-rage-675432


Many of the comments are rather hilarious!

[Clocker]

Wow, this scooter guy who exceeded the express-line limit was really lucky he wasn't gunned down.. he obviously had no consideration for anyone else..

Shooting an elderly man in a wheel chair is obviously excess use of force. I think that just tazing the old phart would be sufficient.

[JustRalph]

A guy murders a 43yo father who was texting his daughter DURING THE PREVIEWS OF A F'ING MOVIE and the father "brought it on himself"?

Tell me, what was a more deplorable act.. texting, or shooting an unarmed man standing next to his wife point blank with a .38 semi-automatic in a movie theater??

And yet, it's the former act that gets the criticism? :bang: :bang: :ThmbDown:

I've been seeing this "he was texting his baby 3 yr old daughter" line all over the place. What the hell difference does that make? If he was an Irish Priest texting his "Sainted Mother" would that be quoted too?

Why make this out to be more than it is. This guy pissed off the wrong 70 yr old man. Cut and dry. Obviously the guy pissed him off and paid with his life. It's not fair, right, legal or otherwise. But making it more than it is for the sake of an anti gun agenda so transparently is obvious. Continue the anti gun narrative. We get it. Guys like Gary get it. He understands that the act of texting in a movie theatre isn't the real point here.

In certain parts of the country there are still standards of conduct that are sometimes referred to as being a result of the old adage, "an armed society is a polite society" Gary lives in one of those areas. For you guys who don't, don't throw popcorn at an old man when he calls you out for breaking the rules.

He just might be a pissed off ex swat team member with mental health issues obviously related to his age.

[Overlay]

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2014/01/15/22315067-movie-theater-texting-confrontation-may-have-had-prequel?lite

The report at the link says that the shooter had had a run-in over texting with another couple in the same theater two weeks earlier, although that incident had not escalated beyond words and dirty looks.

[Tape Reader]

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2014/01/15/22315067-movie-theater-texting-confrontation-may-have-had-prequel?lite

The report at the link says that the shooter had had a run-in over texting with another couple in the same theater two weeks earlier, although that incident had not escalated beyond words and dirty looks.

Surprise, surprise! He was obviously acting out something he had seen before.

Sue Hollywood. Save the world!

[Stillriledup]

The guy who was texting during the movie had "no consideration for anyone else"...but the guy who opened fire in the movie theater did?

This has to be the most ridiculous comment that I've ever read here at paceadvantage.


I think that Gary just meant that if the guy wasnt texting, he wouldnt have been shot. I think the way he worded it sort of indicated that he somehow "got what he deserved" but we know, that's not the case.

[Robert Fischer]

I've been seeing this "he was texting his baby 3 yr old daughter" line all over the place. What the hell difference does that make? If he was an Irish Priest texting his "Sainted Mother" would that be quoted too?

Why make this out to be more than it is. This guy pissed off the wrong 70 yr old man. Cut and dry. Obviously the guy pissed him off and paid with his life. It's not fair, right, legal or otherwise. But making it more than it is for the sake of an anti gun agenda so transparently is obvious.


I don't know what to say...

I don't like politics.

The only light-hearted thing I saw with this killing(I'm desensitized enough, so excuse me if you are offended) was someone mentioning that by throwing popcorn, the movie-goer was guilty of "asalt and buttery". :rolleyes:

The gun debate is overwhelming to me.

You have the vast majority of gun owners who follow all the rules and courtesies, whether it is for self-defense, their 2nd amendment rights, hunting or hobbyist etc etc...

Then you have a small minority who's secondary interest in gun ownership is power related. These are the types who occasionally use their possession of a weapon to enable different, advantageous, behavior than had they otherwise been unarmed. Occasionally this can also lead to a fight-or-flight situation where both parties can act irrationally.

I also suppose that on rare occasions someone can change categories from responsible to irresponsible. The shooter here seems to have been a responsible gun owner for years, and was even formerly a highly-rated police officer.

I don't know what to say about this, and I suppose that you can find a small minority who's "human nature?" would abuse just about anything. Ban everything??

On top of a difficult subject (for me at least) to comprehend, you then have imperfection of man-made laws. One thing that comes to mind from my limited perspective is the fact that without (a theater full of?) witnesses, it is very hard to convict someone from that 2nd "bad" minority group should they escalate a situation into a fight-or-flight scenario and then kill that person. It isn't a fault in the justice system, it's simply an easily exploited loophole in a necessary right of assumed innocence.

And then on top of all that, there are two political parties which both take a relatively extreme, blunt, stance on the issue that feigns blindness to some of the details that don't fit their agenda.

[rastajenk]

What is the extreme stance represented by Republicans?

[iceknight]

But making it more than it is for the sake of an anti gun agenda so transparently is obvious. Continue the anti gun narrative......


He just might be a pissed off ex swat team member with mental health issues obviously related to his age. And you are saying that there should be no gun control on letting guys like those have guns? Even the whole "mental health" seems like an excuse being now thrown in so that he does not get the chair... thats what it seems like an outside observer.

[Clocker]

And you are saying that there should be no gun control on letting guys like those have guns? Even the whole "mental health" seems like an excuse being now thrown in so that he does not get the chair... thats what it seems like an outside observer.

There are gun control laws to prevent people with mental health problems from getting or carrying guns. There is generally little or no enforcement because the politically correct are afraid of offending anyone by suggesting possible mental health problems, making it very hard for doctors and others to get that information into the system.

[JustRalph]

And you are saying that there should be no gun control on letting guys like those have guns? Even the whole "mental health" seems like an excuse being now thrown in so that he does not get the chair... thats what it seems like an outside observer.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying? Issue guns to them. Really? That's what you take from that?

This guy is now being described as having issues, after the fact. Just like other shooters. Btw, those describing him as having mental health issues are speculating. The real evidence shows this event is completely out of character. That said, I'm curious about two things. Did he just decide "the hell with it, I've got nothing to lose, I'm not putting up with this shit anymore" or is he having physical health issues etc. tie all that in with his confrontation with a lady over the same subject a few weeks earlier and maybe he is in deteriorating health mentally or physically. These things can have a role in this terribly unfortunate event. He obviously doesn't have the same good judgement he excercised as a long time police officer in better than good standing. Something changed.

What I said was you never know who you are pissing off. There is no way to know whether that the person your are having a confrontation with is mentally stable or not. This poor bastard picked the wrong old guy to **** with. It's plain luck of the draw. No law in the world is going to ID a guy like this. It's a terrible thing to happen to both men and their families.

[burnsy]

which law in this society did you point as being absurd?

What? you want me to list them all? maybe i'll write a book about them it could be a good 1/3 of all laws...including that bullshit "stand your ground garbage".......you can't be shooting people after YOU approach THEM.".i chased them down then I had to stand my ground." that's just good thinking there....corner people then if they don't comply...you get to shoot them.

[GaryG]

Can you imagine how different this story would be if the victim looked like Barry Hussein's son?

[horses4courses]

Can you imagine how different this story would be if the victim looked like Barry Hussein's son?

Why don't you fill us in?

Any way you cut it, it's pretty tragic.

[TJDave]

Can you imagine how different this story would be if the victim looked like Barry Hussein's son?

Cute. ;)

Here in SoCal two LE's were recently acquitted of killing a homeless, mentally disturbed man. Basically beat him to death. Had he been anything but white the whole LA basin would be ablaze.

[hcap]

Can you imagine how different this story would be if the victim looked like Barry Hussein's son?Or sold duck lures in Appalachia?

[Dahoss2002]

If you really believe the treat of you maybe having a gun is going scare off a criminal, then showing the gun will scare him even more, right?


Show a gun? I never put my finger in the trigger guard until I am ready to shoot at something I want to destroy. Do you mean like "show" someone your firearm?

[Tom]

Happiness is a warm, yes it is, Guuuuu - uh - un!

[JustRalph]

Go back and read this 8 yr old thread……..interesting

HE GOT OFF DUE TO SELF DEFENSE. FLORIDA!

https://nypost.com/2022/02/26/curtis-reeves-retired-florida-cop-acquitted-of-murdering-chad-oulson-in-theater/

[GaryG]

Where are all of the Floridians that went after George Zimmerman? H4C are you out there somewhere?

[Bustin Stones]

Isn't this really about civility? Stop insulting or belittling people who you do not agree with. Flipping the finger to someone while driving is not displaying civility. Flinging your food at someone is not displaying civility.
I always feel more secure when I'm in an area that allows legal conceal and carry. It means the playing field is level. But, I respect those who feel differently. It's your life and you only have one of those. I admire your faith in your fellow humans. I pray it isn't misplaced.

[Dave Schwartz]

If the narrative is accurate, the man threw popcorn in his face which is an "assault."

When a young man (age 43) assaults a 71-year old man, it is understandable that the older man could be fearful.

Question: Would he have thrown popcorn in the face of (say) a 25-year old guy who was sitting next to 2 friends and they all looked like gangbangers?

If the answer is "No," then it is pretty clear that Mr. 43 was a bully who assumed the old man was defenseless, and he likes to pick on (seemingly) defenseless people.

The degree to which the physical threat escalated is not clear from the article.

[Bustin Stones]

Let's stop this right now. The 71 yr old man was not fearful. Ex law enforcement and ex military know 99 other ways to end you. They don't need a warm gun. When one decides to treat someone else without proper respect, one assumes the risk of whatever happens next. It isn't about justifiability. This is simple risk management. Whatever upside that 43 yr old perceived in feeling superior for the moment, circled back on him. And it was going to happen with this ex law enforcement with or without a gun. But, ask yourself, if this 71 yr old was right why wouldn't he just brandish the weapon? Or why wouldn't he rise up and threaten to beat the other man or pull a knife? It isn't about weapon of choice at all.

[Dave Schwartz]

Let's stop this right now. The 71 yr old man was not fearful. Ex law enforcement and ex military know 99 other ways to end you. They don't need a warm gun. When one decides to treat someone else without proper respect, one assumes the risk of whatever happens next. It isn't about justifiability. This is simple risk management. Whatever upside that 43 yr old perceived in feeling superior for the moment, circled back on him. And it was going to happen with this ex law enforcement with or without a gun. But, ask yourself, if this 71 yr old was right why wouldn't he just brandish the weapon? Or why wouldn't he rise up and threaten to beat the other man or pull a knife? It isn't about weapon of choice at all.

Because he was:

No longer much of a physical specimen.
Not the man of courage he was 20 or 30 years ago (or 10).
Or maybe he was just afraid.

Just because a man was once very able to defend himself does not mean he will be able to maintain this standard into his 60s, 70s, etc.


Besides, how would you know this man's level of threat tolerance? He was long retired - and even longer off the street.


When one decides to treat someone else without proper respect, one assumes the risk of whatever happens next.
And that is what the dead guy did.





But we can certainly agree to disagree.

[davew]

Let's stop this right now. The 71 yr old man was not fearful. Ex law enforcement and ex military know 99 other ways to end you. They don't need a warm gun. When one decides to treat someone else without proper respect, one assumes the risk of whatever happens next. It isn't about justifiability. This is simple risk management. Whatever upside that 43 yr old perceived in feeling superior for the moment, circled back on him. And it was going to happen with this ex law enforcement with or without a gun. But, ask yourself, if this 71 yr old was right why wouldn't he just brandish the weapon? Or why wouldn't he rise up and threaten to beat the other man or pull a knife? It isn't about weapon of choice at all.

How long have you been a 71 year old man? Reflexes get slower dontcha think? And maybe he pulled it and went off by self, like Alec Baldwin?

[Bustin Stones]

You don't agree he could have only brandished his weapon. And by firing it instead he was not right? Further, you believe one needs to maintain a physical minimum to know how to end someone without a gun?

[Tom]

You don't agree he could have only brandished his weapon. And by firing it instead he was not right? Further, you believe one needs to maintain a physical minimum to know how to end someone without a gun?


At 70, I can't nearly as much physical damage as I could 40 years ago, but with a gun, I haven't lost a step. No brainer.

[Dave Schwartz]

You don't agree he could have only brandished his weapon. And by firing it instead he was not right? Further, you believe one needs to maintain a physical minimum to know how to end someone without a gun?

Oh, I think he was COMPLETELY RIGHT.

The only thing I disagreed with was your characterization that he was not afraid. How would YOU know?

Many of us served in the military, and others were law enforcement. Some were even heroes. (Not me, but I did show up.) That does not mean we would never know fear.

If you look at that man - now 78 - and clearly not as ambulatory as he once was - you have to consider that he may not have the horsepower he had when he was 50.

I truly wish I was the ass kicker I was in my 20s and 30s, but alas, not so much. LOL

[Bustin Stones]

I apologize for using a confusing term. I meant he was not right mentally to have fired his weapon. I, too, served, my brother.
I meant that having someone fling popcorn at you does not inflict fear. Anger, of course.

[Dave Schwartz]

I apologize for using a confusing term. I meant he was not right mentally to have fired his weapon. I, too, served, my brother.
I meant that having someone fling popcorn at you does not inflict fear. Anger, of course.

Apology accepted.

I agree.

The article indicated that the defense's position was that he thought the guy was about to attack him. Now, whether that was the same attack as the popcorn insult or a separate one, does make a difference, but only slightly.

I would say that it is impossible to know what goes through the mind of an attacked person; whether they are afraid or not.

IMHO, "The punishment does not fit the crime," is a non-sequitur in situations as these.

Again, IMHO, anyone who is attacked, deserves the benefit of doubt.

If a price is to be paid, it should always be the attacker who pays it. ALWAYS.

I'd bet you could be onboard with that, right?

[Inner Dirt]

Screw the 43 year old, he assaulted an elderly man, he is a piece of crap bully. No big loss that he is dead.

[JustRalph]

How man headlines do we see nowadays of elderly or older persons being assaulted?

Punch “elderly assaulted” into google and hit the news tab.

You could spend the rest of the day reading these articles.

Every one of those victims wish they could have responded differently, either with a gun or some other deterrent.

Really……punch it in google

[Bustin Stones]

Are we going to debate over how many angels can we fit on the head of a pin? The point, as I originally understood it, is whether this is story about gun control. Whether I take the position that he could have defended himself without a gun or whether he had the right to defend himself by whatever means, it all ends up the same. It is not about gun control. Let's hear from those who think it is about gun control.

[jimmyb]

I live in the second largest city in MA and rely on public transportation. I leave the house with the attitude of minding my business and if trouble comes my way, how important is it. I'm 68 years old, work out with weights 4 times weekly and still competitively power lift. I'm not as strong as my younger years but can still move serious weight.


Sometime last year after leaving the gym, it was wait for the bus for the trip back home. Bus arrives, i get on and some dick head has his legs across the aisle. I look at him, shrug my shoulders and ask him politely to move so I can get by. He tells me to go **** myself. In an instant I'm burning with rage and tell him if he doesn't move I'm going to throw him out a window. Nobody on the bus seemed to mind. I don't care for disrespect and it seemed important enough to let him know how I felt. He moved and never said another word.