Another look at the Baffert horse deaths

[cj]

http://tuesdayshorse.wordpress.com/2014/01/07/deadly-to-horses-the-baffert-effect-part-1/

Part 2 tomorrow. However you want to spin it, the overall picture of the sport is not pretty.

[nijinski]

In 08 Tuesdayshorse blog called for Hollendorfer to lose his license along
with some other groups . Google Tuesdayshorse Heavenly Perfect .
I think he changed his ways some after that .

I haven't read this one yet but I will .

[RXB]

http://tuesdayshorse.wordpress.com/2008/09/02/trainer-of-the-year-runs-horse-to-death/

Melody {aka Heavenly Perfect} not only had laminitis, but also numerous bone fractures. X-rays showed that rotation began five months earlier, and her coffin bones were nearly coming through the soles of both her front feet. Melody also had 3 chips in her knees, and at least two fractures, one in her second carpel bone and one in her radial carpel bone. It was clear these injuries were not new. The absence of treatment meant Melody was highly arthritic, and in great pain. It was also clear that training and running her in this condition had caused her untold suffering. On the discovery of these injuries, it was decided putting Melody to sleep was the only humane option. Sadly, it may have been the only decision made with any degree of compassion for this sweet mare.

Who was responsible for Heavenly Perfect — Melody — who so heartlessly neglected her, then disposed of her at a known kill auction? Jerry Hollendorfer, her trainer and owner.

[lamboguy]

the horses are never going to be able to keep up with the changes of the game. what we wind up with are catastrophic injuries and then deaths.

its a very tough sell to the public, they just aren't that turned on to watch horses run around in circles and break down at the rate they are these days.

as long as there are people that have the money and are willing to participate in this game, it will go on, or it will be shut down.

[nijinski]

the horses are never going to be able to keep up with the changes of the game. what we wind up with are catastrophic injuries and then deaths.

its a very tough sell to the public, they just aren't that turned on to watch horses run around in circles and break down at the rate they are these days.

as long as there are people that have the money and are willing to participate in this game, it will go on, or it will be shut down.

Which is why some of us who love this sport and adore the horses want
change . We can't stop unforeseen accidents . But neglect and irresponsibility
leading to the demise of the horse is a problem that needs change .

[chadk66]

If you were one of Bafferts owners and read that article you would remove your horses tomorrow. Unless you know full well what's going on and understand or are willing to take the risk associated with whatever the hell he's doing.

[maclr11]

I'm not going to give my stance on this because Id be considered pro baffert, I'm not against retirement/drug restrictions but people who write stuff like this make the game look way worse than it is. The problem is people complain about field sizes, and this type of reform would kill field sizes. Field sizes go down, handle goes down, racing dies. I agree with testing for things but horses are built to run. It's sad when bad happens, but isn't that part of the mystique of the game. How tremendous these animals are yet how fragile they are. I guarantee you these guys don't hate horses. No one gets up in arms over an nfl player getting cut, it's on a similar level as moving a horse to a different person.
I just know that almost half the horses I've been close to wouldn't run without some sort of aid, or they'd breakdown even more. Tell me how that's good. And racing is still major parts of indusrty. even in small states, provinces it's over a $50 million dollar industry. Provides jobs, taxes and circulates money. All I'm saying is for each action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Before you push these issues away, please understand what issues may show up instead.

[Segwin]

http://tuesdayshorse.wordpress.com/2008/09/02/trainer-of-the-year-runs-horse-to-death/

Melody {aka Heavenly Perfect} not only had laminitis, but also numerous bone fractures. X-rays showed that rotation began five months earlier, and her coffin bones were nearly coming through the soles of both her front feet. Melody also had 3 chips in her knees, and at least two fractures, one in her second carpel bone and one in her radial carpel bone. It was clear these injuries were not new. The absence of treatment meant Melody was highly arthritic, and in great pain. It was also clear that training and running her in this condition had caused her untold suffering. On the discovery of these injuries, it was decided putting Melody to sleep was the only humane option. Sadly, it may have been the only decision made with any degree of compassion for this sweet mare.

Who was responsible for Heavenly Perfect — Melody — who so heartlessly neglected her, then disposed of her at a known kill auction? Jerry Hollendorfer, her trainer and owner.

Being relatively new to the sport I don't understand how this type of thing is allowed to continue. I'm sure animal rights groups have spoken out about this type of mistreatment before but those involved seem to be Teflon coated. I would also think that self policing is preferably to goverment intervention.

[nijinski]

Being relatively new to the sport I don't understand how this type of thing is allowed to continue. I'm sure animal rights groups have spoken out about this type of mistreatment before but those involved seem to be Teflon coated. I would also think that self policing is preferably to goverment intervention.
Despite the gloom it looks like great strides have been made .
Every breeding farm needs a John Heittinger and every racetrack a Donna
Keen . In every state a Michael Blowen .

[JustRalph]

Being relatively new to the sport I don't understand how this type of thing is allowed to continue. I'm sure animal rights groups have spoken out about this type of mistreatment before but those involved seem to be Teflon coated. I would also think that self policing is preferably to goverment intervention.

Just because it's preferable doesn't mean it works. When it comes to racing it works very poorly and in many instances borderline criminal coverup

The Teflon is spread pretty wide too

[Tom]

No one gets up in arms over an nfl player getting cut,

NFL players are there by their choice.
That is the difference.

[maclr11]

But they are left out with no sustainable skills for the future. Life ending injuries, concussion issues.
I'm not arguing about choice, it was more about condition.

[Seabiscuit@AR]

Excellent article

There should be threshold levels set for horse deaths and injuries based on overall stats. If you go above the threshold it should be an automatic suspension of your licence for a decent period (at least 12 months) with no ability to avoid the suspension

[Stillriledup]

Excellent article

There should be threshold levels set for horse deaths and injuries based on overall stats. If you go above the threshold it should be an automatic suspension of your licence for a decent period (at least 12 months) with no ability to avoid the suspension

Michael Vick served jail time for abusing dogs....baffert not only got no jail time, he didnt lose one client to my knowledge, received no fine, got no suspension, didnt have his license reviewed to see if he was competent and didnt have one penny come out of his pocket directly or indirectly. Also, he has the LA Times writing articles about him and how he's great for the sport.

[dinque]

after gambling on horses for over 30 years i have thrown in the towel

[nijinski]

after gambling on horses for over 30 years i have thrown in the towel
If you still enjoy the sport why not support change .

[dinque]

to no avail i have talked to allen gutterman and the "new new" guy at santa anita with plenty of suggestions to aid the bettor

my best friend , well one of two, is caroline betts and i do whatever i can to help her with so cal thoroughbred rescue...i can't think of anyone who dedicates so much time for the good of the horse...i cant do 2% the job she does but i do try to help..

i don't want to handicap who is doing what to their horses, what cycle of form they are in or if an underlay has now become a good thing because it means the horse is cranked..

it is neither fun nor profitable for me to continue to devote time to a sport or handicap challenge that i no longer love

[classhandicapper]

IMO each horse should be treated the same way an intelligent responsible adult would treat one of their children if the adult was still responsible for all the decision making about the child's well being. By that standard, a lot of things we do now shouldn't be done.

[thaskalos]

We read these stories and are understandably upset by them...but our anger and disgust are short-lived. We don't care enough about these beautiful animals to take any real action to bring about some sort of positive change in this cruel game. There is nothing new under the sun...we've read all this stuff before. And we still buy the next day's DRF, and go about our business, as if nothing out of the ordinary has occurred.

At the very core...we horseplayers are as greedy and self-consumed as these cheating trainers are...

[Stillriledup]

We read these stories and are understandably upset by them...but our anger and disgust are short-lived. We don't care enough about these beautiful animals to take any real action to bring about some sort of positive change in this cruel game. There is nothing new under the sun...we've read all this stuff before. And we still buy the next day's DRF, and go about our business, as if nothing out of the ordinary has occurred.

At the very core...we horseplayers are as greedy and self-consumed as these cheating trainers are...

When you say horseplayers are greedy , what do you mean? Most players are just trying to win their next bet to stay afloat to fund their following bet, right?

[affirmedny]

[url]

Who was responsible for Heavenly Perfect — Melody — who so heartlessly neglected her, then disposed of her at a known kill auction? Jerry Hollendorfer, her trainer and owner.[/I]


Hollendorfer Stables v. Friends of Equines



VIA EMA1L AND CERTIFIED MAIL

Christine A. Jubic

Friends of Equines, Foes of Equine Slaughter

118 River Rd.

Johnsonville, NY 12094

CJubic(änycap.rr.com

Re: Jerry Hollendorfer and Hollendorfer Racing Stables

Dear Ms. Jubic:

We represent Jerry Hollendorfer and Hollendorfer Racing Stables. I call your attention to

your website, www.freewebs.comlfriendsofeciuines, and the petition drive against Mr.

Hollendorfer, wherein you are trying to damage Mr. Hollendorfer’s reputation in the horse

industry with slanderous comments. We demand that you and your organization, “Friends of

Equines, Foes of Equine Slaughter,” retract your statements immediately and publicly apologize

for the statement as well as to immediately stop the petition drive you are conducting. If you do

not do so, we will file suit against you and your organization for defamation of character and

intentional infliction of emotional distress, seeking all damages available under the law,

including punitive damages.

Based on your website and petition drive, it is clear you are aware that Mr. Hollendorfer

is a horse trainer of some repute. As part of your petition drive, you make several incorrect and

slanderous comments about Mr. Hollendorfer involving the care of a horse called Heavenly

Perfect. You falsely claim that Mr. Hollendorfer raced Heavenly Perfect on May 13, 2008,

knowing that she had laminitis, a hoof disease, as well as other fractures and chips to the knees

and joints. You also falsely reported that Mr. Hollendorfer sold Heavenly Perfect at a “kill

auction” on May 23, 2008. Your reporting was clearly done with actual (and misdirected)

malice including statements such as: “Trainer of the Year Runs Horse to Death,” “Jerry

Hollendorfer Runs Foundered Horse Near to Death and Sends Her Off to Slaughter,” that Mr.

Hollendorfer “tortured” Heavenly Perfect by “forcing her to race time and time again knowing

she was not fit to race,” and that Mr. Hollendorfer is your “International Posterboy of Racehorse

Cruelty.” Your petition drive also encourages others to spread your false comments about Mr.

Hollendorfer. In reviewing the comments of those who signed your petition drive, it is clear that

your slanderous comments are having the desired effect of besmirching Mr. Hollendorfer’s good

name and reputation in the horse industry.

Contrary to your assertions, Mr. Hollendorfer provides the utmost care and treatment to

all the horses he trains, including Heavenly Perfect. Therefore, the untrue and defamatory

comments you have made about Mr. Hollendorfer are particularly offensive and reprehensible to

him. Also, contrary to the statements you are spreading on your website petition, Mr.

Hollendorfer only raced Heavenly Perfect four times in over two years, and never while she

while she was injured. In May 2008, Mr. Hollendorfer gave her to a Mr. Ed Harvey, who stated

he was purchasing her as a pleasure horse or brood mare. Mr. Harvey, not Mr. Hollendorfer, was

the one who apparently then sold her to what you are claiming was a “kill auction.” Mr.

Hollendorfer had absolutely no involvement with that sale.

We therefore demand that you remove any defamatory comments about Mr. Hollendorfer

from your website, to withdraw your petition, and to issue a formal retraction in the manner

required by Section 48a(3) of the California Civil Code. Please do so by October 24 or we will

file suit.

Very truly yours,

J an H. Hurricane

JHH:sfr

Cc: Jerry Hollendorfer

John Worden

SF\9229563. I

http://www.freewebs.com/horseracinghallofshame/bustedbannedexposed.htm

[cj]

We read these stories and are understandably upset by them...but our anger and disgust are short-lived. We don't care enough about these beautiful animals to take any real action to bring about some sort of positive change in this cruel game. There is nothing new under the sun...we've read all this stuff before. And we still buy the next day's DRF, and go about our business, as if nothing out of the ordinary has occurred.

At the very core...we horseplayers are as greedy and self-consumed as these cheating trainers are...

Handle trends tell a different story.

[Mineshaft]

raced4 times in 2 years can you say CRIPPLED...........

[GMB@BP]

Handle trends tell a different story.

Agree CJ, lots of claims in threads in here how there are not negative impacts based on many industry issues are clearly flying in the face of the bottom line numbers that support people are not happy with the way things are being run.

My handle is next to zero compared to where it used to be, though drugs is not the defining issue for me.

[thaskalos]

When you say horseplayers are greedy , what do you mean? Most players are just trying to win their next bet to stay afloat to fund their following bet, right?
I mean that the horseplayer is not as concerned about the horses' welfare as he pretends to be whenever an article such as this makes an appearance.

All we care about is cashing a bet...and all the trainers care about is collecting a purse.

We pretend to be shocked and enraged whenever these reports of animal cruelty surface...but we've seen it all in the past -- and we've learned to ignore it.

[thaskalos]

Agree CJ, lots of claims in threads in here how there are not negative impacts based on many industry issues are clearly flying in the face of the bottom line numbers that support people are not happy with the way things are being run.

My handle is next to zero compared to where it used to be, though drugs is not the defining issue for me.
The handle is not declining because people are objecting to the treatment that the horses are receiving; the handle is dropping because people are sustaining heavy losses.

[Stillriledup]

I mean that the horseplayer is not as concerned about the horses' welfare as he pretends to be whenever an article such as this makes an appearance.

All we care about is cashing a bet...and all the trainers care about is collecting a purse.

We pretend to be shocked and enraged whenever these reports of animal cruelty surface...but we've seen it all in the past -- and we've learned to ignore it.

But isnt cashing a bet all the horseplayer should be worried about? In other words, what's in it for the player to "Care" about the health of the jockeys and horses? Sure, as compassionate humans you don't want to see any animals suffer or any jocks get injured, but none of that is anything that the fan can control, its not like they have a "Say" in anything that goes on.

Without a "Say" in things, its pretty easy to just "not care" about anything that goes on within the sport, its not like 'caring' is going to matter one iota to the participants, its up to the trainers and owners to care about their animals, i'm not sure fans "not caring" means they're selfish.

[dilanesp]

slanderous comments.

you make several incorrect and

slanderous comments about Mr. Hollendorfer

Always fun to see a defamation lawyer who doesn't know the difference between libel and slander.

[GMB@BP]

The handle is not declining because people are objecting to the treatment that the horses are receiving; the handle is dropping because people are sustaining heavy losses.

I would agree if you weighted the issues that this has a lower variable, but it has an affect none the less, people are fed up with this shit, just like Jacobson's run at Aqu recently.

[thaskalos]

But isnt cashing a bet all the horseplayer should be worried about? In other words, what's in it for the player to "Care" about the health of the jockeys and horses? Sure, as compassionate humans you don't want to see any animals suffer or any jocks get injured, but none of that is anything that the fan can control, its not like they have a "Say" in anything that goes on.

Without a "Say" in things, its pretty easy to just "not care" about anything that goes on within the sport, its not like 'caring' is going to matter one iota to the participants, its up to the trainers and owners to care about their animals, i'm not sure fans "not caring" means they're selfish.
Let me put it this way:

I have known for decades that infirm horses are heavily medicated and sent to the post every day by unscrupulous horsemen, at every track in the country. Every day, horses who have no business racing are being put in harm's way...and so are the humans on their back. A better man would take measures to distance himself from such nefarious activity...but here I am...betting thousands of dollars every day on these horses.

And why?

Because I have managed to secure a small piece of the pie for myself.

I don't know if I can call that "selfish"...but I can tell you that it's something that I am not exactly proud of...

[cj]

The handle is not declining because people are objecting to the treatment that the horses are receiving; the handle is dropping because people are sustaining heavy losses.

Not sure how you can be so definitive. I think it is a combination of reasons, including both you mention above.

[Saratoga_Mike]

I mean that the horseplayer is not as concerned about the horses' welfare as he pretends to be whenever an article such as this makes an appearance.

All we care about is cashing a bet...and all the trainers care about is collecting a purse.

We pretend to be shocked and enraged whenever these reports of animal cruelty surface...but we've seen it all in the past -- and we've learned to ignore it.

Actually some (bettors and trainers) cut a check to t'bred retirement charities every yr - I'd say that's evidence of concern for the horses' welfare. But I can't control what trainer is or isn't suspended from the sport.

[Stillriledup]

Let me put it this way:

I have known for decades that infirm horses are heavily medicated and sent to the post every day by unscrupulous horsemen, at every track in the country. Every day, horses who have no business racing are being put in harm's way...and so are the humans on their back. A better man would take measures to distance himself from such nefarious activity...but here I am...betting thousands of dollars every day on these horses.

And why?

Because I have managed to secure a small piece of the pie for myself.

I don't know if I can call that "selfish"...but I can tell you that it's something that I am not exactly proud of...

I know what you're saying and you're a good man for having feelings like this. Its a shame that the trainers don't have the same caring thoughts for their animals, probably the reason oats and hay guys like JVB are basically out of the sport.

[Howlet]

What do you expect from an organization run by Bo Derek? Bo Freakin' DEREK. Even Dudley Moore thinks that's a joke. And he's dead.

Blow 'em up Bob would have to be caught in a bank vault with a Glock before it would occur to her that something possibly, might, maybe, could, conceivably be amiss.

CA racing is in a death spiral.

[GMB@BP]

What do you expect from an organization run by Bo Derek? Bo Freakin' DEREK. Even Dudley Moore thinks that's a joke. And he's dead.

Blow 'em up Bob would have to be caught in a bank vault with a Glock before it would occur to her that something possibly, might, maybe, could, conceivably be amiss.

CA racing is in a death spiral.

I dont think Baffert has anything on some of these guys in Florida or Maryland.

Your post makes it sound like Cal is the poster child, I would argue the dearth of claiming races makes the amount of move ups more negligible. There hasnt been a "Mullins" like trainer here in a few years, not saying its not an issue but if anything Cal has seemed cleaner the last few years.

[Howlet]

Your mistake is thinking things only go wrong in claiming races. Those guys are the amateurs. They run for nickels and dimes and their "medication" budget reflects it. Bobby is in for a tad more than that.

[Mineshaft]

I dont think Baffert has anything on some of these guys in Florida or Maryland.

Your post makes it sound like Cal is the poster child, I would argue the dearth of claiming races makes the amount of move ups more negligible. There hasnt been a "Mullins" like trainer here in a few years, not saying its not an issue but if anything Cal has seemed cleaner the last few years.




Ness wouldn't be considered a "Mullins " like trainer

[maclr11]

Everyone singles out Baffert Baffert Baffert in the high levels in Cali.
I bet 75% of major cali trainers are incredible chemists. I'm sure it's not just Baffert. It's a copycat sport.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Everyone singles out Baffert Baffert Baffert in the high levels in Cali.
I bet 75% of major cali trainers are incredible chemists. I'm sure it's not just Baffert. It's a copycat sport.

The numbers speak for themselves. One drug violation for every 545 starters (see link in the first post; stats are from a couple of yrs ago) for Baffert, compared with Todd Pletcher who has one drug violation for every 2,971 starters. If you couple these stats with the inexplicably high number of horse deaths, Mr. Baffert has earned the attention. If anything, he doesn't receive enough criticism.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Ness wouldn't be considered a "Mullins " like trainer

Ness doesn't train in Cali, and he was referring to Cali.

[maclr11]

http://www.thoroughbredrulings.com/default.asp?RTReport=2&From=SRCH&EPID=83&L=Baffert&M=%20&F=Bob&LAST=BAFFERT&BRD=&SHOWSEARCH=YES

I count one flunixin violation since 2005. Hardly seems reason to be up in arms. Not sure where the others stats come from but these are from the jockey club. You would think they'd be accurate.

http://www.thoroughbredrulings.com/default.asp?RTReport=2&From=SRCH&EPID=2185&L=Gaines&M=%20&F=Carla&LAST=GAINES&BRD=&SHOWSEARCH=YES

Here's Carla Gaines she's got 5 or 6 violations in same time frame.

http://www.thoroughbredrulings.com/default.asp?RTReport=2&From=SRCH&EPID=1268&L=Mitchell&M=R.&F=Mike&LAST=MITCHELL&BRD=&SHOWSEARCH=YES

Here's mike Mitchell he's got 3

There's a bunch more examples. Can't just penalize the people who win. Why do you think lots of people hate the Yankees, patriots, lakers etc etc.

[Saratoga_Mike]

http://www.thoroughbredrulings.com/default.asp?RTReport=2&From=SRCH&EPID=83&L=Baffert&M=%20&F=Bob&LAST=BAFFERT&BRD=&SHOWSEARCH=YES

I count one flunixin violation since 2005. Hardly seems reason to be up in arms. Not sure where the others stats come from but these are from the jockey club. You would think they'd be accurate.

http://www.thoroughbredrulings.com/default.asp?RTReport=2&From=SRCH&EPID=2185&L=Gaines&M=%20&F=Carla&LAST=GAINES&BRD=&SHOWSEARCH=YES

Here's Carla Gaines she's got 5 or 6 violations in same time frame.

http://www.thoroughbredrulings.com/default.asp?RTReport=2&From=SRCH&EPID=1268&L=Mitchell&M=R.&F=Mike&LAST=MITCHELL&BRD=&SHOWSEARCH=YES

Here's mike Mitchell he's got 3

There's a bunch more examples. Can't just penalize the people who win. Why do you think lots of people hate the Yankees, patriots, lakers etc etc.

Oh please, this is the same defense every super trainer in the business uses (that and they work really hard; others are lazy). Again, I will go with the stats from the NY Times article, which to my knowledge Baffert has never disputed. That table clearly shows he has many more violations per thousand starters than most top trainers. If your stats on Gaines/Mitchell are correct, I'd consider them chronic violators, too.

[maclr11]

They might not work harder, but baffert and tap buy way more horses, for bigger prices. If they like a horse at a sale they get him. Ness, Jacobson etc are way more aggressive. It's a business, the biggest lesson I learned was from a friend who's a 40% trainer. If you aren't the favorite you've entered in the wrong spot. You want to have people claiming your horses. Turn over is great, a track with lots of claiming has to have some positive attributes. Some of these guys have true edges, that's what makes them 25%. Not the ability to cheat, anyone can cheat, heck most of them are or trying to. As weird as this sounds, lots of the 7-10% guys are just as bad cheaters with less stock and different mind sets. If the Red Sox and royals were both cheating is it right that only the successful get punished. That's like schools who award mediocrity. The point of the game is to win, and 95% of the people on the track are trying to do that. Some are just more talented and better equipped than others.

[classhandicapper]

Let me put it this way:

I have known for decades that infirm horses are heavily medicated and sent to the post every day by unscrupulous horsemen, at every track in the country. Every day, horses who have no business racing are being put in harm's way...and so are the humans on their back. A better man would take measures to distance himself from such nefarious activity...but here I am...betting thousands of dollars every day on these horses.

And why?

Because I have managed to secure a small piece of the pie for myself.

I don't know if I can call that "selfish"...but I can tell you that it's something that I am not exactly proud of...

I think you may be holding yourself to too high a standard.

I wish there were no "alchemists" in the game. I say that all the time. But as long they exist because the authorities can't catch them, don't punish them harshly enough to change the risk/reward for cheating, or look the other way if they are important in the industry, I'm going to continue betting their horses because it's the easiest way to profit at the racetrack I know of.

Now if I was an owner and gave my horses to someone like that, you could probably call me out for not practicing what I preach. But that's different.

IMHO, if you really care about the horses (and I believe you do) you can always make a small donation to Old Fiends or a medical facility that specializes in equine care etc... You can voice your opinion on forums and in letters to the editor (as you are now). But I don't think you have to quit the game.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Any trainer who wins at a 40% clip on a sustained basis is cheating unless he/she is literally giving away $30k claimers for $10k in every race. I agree with your statement about placement overall, though. How do you explain all the Baffert horses dying? From a statistical standpoint, it looks like more than bad luck.

[maclr11]

The two ways to be 40% are run cheap horses down people's throats, lots of horses that are sore but more talented and run them cheap. Or only have 45-50 starts and spot horses really well and do the vet work and make sure you can win when your in.

My take on the baffert deaths are that 1-2 were probably going to happen anyways and the other 4-5 were because of some bad mix of something that he was giving to all horses, like the thyroid thing and this the thought it would benefit but in a small percentage of horses it caused major risk for cardiac injuries and death. And there is certainly some medical knowledge to come from it to prevent anyone giving whatever mix to horses. But I don't think it was malicious and the fact he hasn't had any reported deaths means he's learnt and stopped, which is good. Don't need horses dying or the bad press and it would be great to know what caused it, so no one else does it but I don't think he was doing anything unique it was just his unique mix of drugs/supplements was having very negative side affects.

[chadk66]

The two ways to be 40% are run cheap horses down people's throats, lots of horses that are sore but more talented and run them cheap. Or only have 45-50 starts and spot horses really well and do the vet work and make sure you can win when your in.

My take on the baffert deaths are that 1-2 were probably going to happen anyways and the other 4-5 were because of some bad mix of something that he was giving to all horses, like the thyroid thing and this the thought it would benefit but in a small percentage of horses it caused major risk for cardiac injuries and death. And there is certainly some medical knowledge to come from it to prevent anyone giving whatever mix to horses. But I don't think it was malicious and the fact he hasn't had any reported deaths means he's learnt and stopped, which is good. Don't need horses dying or the bad press and it would be great to know what caused it, so no one else does it but I don't think he was doing anything unique it was just his unique mix of drugs/supplements was having very negative side affects.
you know you bring up a pretty good point. it's rather telling that suddenly the deaths have stopped yet he has no idea what caused it :confused:

[Stillriledup]

you know you bring up a pretty good point. it's rather telling that suddenly the deaths have stopped yet he has no idea what caused it :confused:

This is interesting....if he didnt know what caused it, they might still be happening. :rolleyes:

[takeout]

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/ray-s-paddock/is-cobalt-a-killer-in-horses/
[snip]
The dangers of Cobalt were known long before the substance was used as a performance-enhancing drug in human or equine athletics.

In the mid-1960s a brewery in Quebec, Canada, was among several North American beer makers to add Cobalt to its formula to stabilize foam. An alarming number of heavy beer drinkers in Quebec developed heart disease and died from cardiovascular failure, and the evidence led to the breweries that were adding Cobalt to their beer. The practice was quickly stopped, and so, too, did the deaths.
[snip]

[Stillriledup]

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/ray-s-paddock/is-cobalt-a-killer-in-horses/
[snip]
The dangers of Cobalt were known long before the substance was used as a performance-enhancing drug in human or equine athletics.

In the mid-1960s a brewery in Quebec, Canada, was among several North American beer makers to add Cobalt to its formula to stabilize foam. An alarming number of heavy beer drinkers in Quebec developed heart disease and died from cardiovascular failure, and the evidence led to the breweries that were adding Cobalt to their beer. The practice was quickly stopped, and so, too, did the deaths.
[snip]

So is this Thyro L stuff used to help with side effects of cobalt use?

Does anyone know?

[johnhannibalsmith]

So is this Thyro L stuff used to help with side effects of cobalt use?

Does anyone know?

From the very article that is posted two posts above this one and you even quoted in your own post:

According to sources, the Standardbred trainers whose horses tested for high levels of Cobalt were also administering large doses of thyroxin to reduce risk of thyroid problems

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/ray-s-paddock/is-cobalt-a-killer-in-horses/

There's the link to the article again in case you want to read it.

[Stillriledup]

From the very article that is posted two posts above this one and you even quoted in your own post:

According to sources, the Standardbred trainers whose horses tested for high levels of Cobalt were also administering large doses of thyroxin to reduce risk of thyroid problems

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/ray-s-paddock/is-cobalt-a-killer-in-horses/

There's the link to the article again in case you want to read it.

Thank you Mr Smith. :ThmbUp:

[thespaah]

Always fun to see a defamation lawyer who doesn't know the difference between libel and slander.
You noticed that as well.
I think the letter from the 'attorney' was nothing but a scare tactic.
As long as the person making and publishing the claims can verify their veracity, the complaint is moot.
BTW, one can go to court and win all the judgments they want. Doesn't mean any money will change hands. And unless it ever gets to a criminal court( doubtful) there is nothing the plaintiff can do other than to provide counter information which clears their name.

[chadk66]

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/ray-s-paddock/is-cobalt-a-killer-in-horses/
[snip]
The dangers of Cobalt were known long before the substance was used as a performance-enhancing drug in human or equine athletics.

In the mid-1960s a brewery in Quebec, Canada, was among several North American beer makers to add Cobalt to its formula to stabilize foam. An alarming number of heavy beer drinkers in Quebec developed heart disease and died from cardiovascular failure, and the evidence led to the breweries that were adding Cobalt to their beer. The practice was quickly stopped, and so, too, did the deaths.
[snip]
there is an alarming number of heavy beer drinkers throughout all of Canada :D

[Stillriledup]

Zayat firing Asmussen, but didnt fire Baffert to my knowledge.

With all the heat on Steve and Scott, lets not forget Hall of Famer Baffert.

[Stillriledup]

Bob Baffert's twitter account is no more.

(in case you care). ;)

[nijinski]

probably got disturbing tweets post Red Tesla's race .

[JustRalph]

probably got disturbing tweets post Red Tesla's race .

You don't want your tweets used in court, lots of attorneys advising people to drop their accounts

[nijinski]

You don't want your tweets used in court, lots of attorneys advising people to drop their accounts

Pretty smart once written and out there , it's " word " .

[Grits]

You don't want your tweets used in court, lots of attorneys advising people to drop their accounts

This commonly occurs when your number of tweets exceeds your number of brain cells. You know which ones, the .. "first thing, feet hit the floor, and last thing before bed, "no, I don't have to pee; I have to tweet this, its important."

Folks should be leaving in droves. :lol:

[rastajenk]

Neither a twitter or a twittee be
For tweets oft lose one's privacy

[Stillriledup]

http://www.peta.org/media/news-releases/peta-ponies-5-000-reward-suspicious-horse-race-deaths/

Maybe Baffert is on the golf course looking for the "Real killers?"

[Stillriledup]

http://www.peta.org/media/news-releases/peta-ponies-5-000-reward-suspicious-horse-race-deaths/

Maybe Baffert is on the golf course looking for the "Real killers?"

A year and a month later, are the "Real killers" still on the loose here? Or, did we just sweep this under the rug?

[castaway01]

A year and a month later, are the "Real killers" still on the loose here? Or, did we just sweep this under the rug?

Quoting PETA, of all sleazy sources, while doing your usual "sort of accusing Baffert of killing horses without having the balls to say it" is pretty unethical, even for you.

[Relwob Owner]

Quoting PETA, of all sleazy sources, while doing your usual "sort of accusing Baffert of killing horses without having the balls to say it" is pretty unethical, even for you.

I agree. Definitely a troll move and pretty pointless

[cj]

A year and a month later? What did you think was going to happen since then. Just stop.