Are you drafting Johnny Manziel?

[TheEdge07]

I would

[headhawg]

In early rounds? No. If I'm running a read option offense? Maybe. My feeling is that he is Tebow with a better arm and off-the-field issues. If he's available in the 4th, and I have an established QB so that I can wait to see if he develops, then a qualified yes. No doubt there are teams that will take him early. A mistake, but that's why those teams suck every year.

[tucker6]

I would
2nd or 3rd round maybe. Not worth a 1st round selection IMO. What proto-typical NFL QB skills do you believe he possesses?

Height? NO
Throwing motion? NO
Accuracy? Some yes and some no depending on the throw
Field awareness? YES

[TheEdge07]

[QUOTE=tucker6]2nd or 3rd round maybe. Not worth a 1st round selection IMO. What proto-typical NFL QB skills do you believe he possesses?

Height? NO
Throwing motion? NO
Accuracy? Some yes and some no depending on the throw
Field awareness? YES[/QUOTE

high football iq
accurate
leader

[tucker6]

[QUOTE
high football iq
accurate
leader[/QUOTE]
That's all bull crap. He has field awareness, but that isn't IQ. Football IQ is being able to read the defense and know where your hot receiver is. Manziel is no better than many college QB's at this point. Manziel has the instincts that a Tebow had but with more accuracy, but you can't build a successful NFL team around that. Just take a look at the NFL. You remove RGIII's running threat because he's getting hurt too much, and he becomes an average QB. Same will happen with Manziel. Teams don't want to mortgage their franchise on a guy who could get hurt all the time. He's already been getting hurt in college. Will only get worse in the pros.

[TheEdge07]

2nd or 3rd round maybe. Not worth a 1st round selection IMO. What proto-typical NFL QB skills do you believe he possesses?

Height? NO
Throwing motion? NO
Accuracy? Some yes and some no depending on the throw
Field awareness? YES

Height..brees, no
throwing motion..stafford no
accuracy..flacco no..completed 59 % of his passes..

[precocity]

I would
a real defense end is going to make him sheit in his boxers...hes to small.

[Robert Fischer]

I like him.

Even RG3 sold tix, and drove a ton of revenue, and has made that mediocre Skins team a constant media story.

He's worth more than most draft picks in the box office already.

And I think he can play a little. If he were to have any real success, I think he would need a really top-level offensive coordinator.

If he doesn't land in a good organization, I could see him getting thrown to the wolves.

[Clocker]

You remove RGIII's running threat because he's getting hurt too much, and he becomes an average QB. Same will happen with Manziel. Teams don't want to mortgage their franchise on a guy who could get hurt all the time. He's already been getting hurt in college. Will only get worse in the pros.

I haven't seen a lot of Manziel, but he reminds me of RGIII, and both remind be of a younger Mike Vick. None have field discipline, and try to be creative when they get in a jam. The verdict is still out as to RGIII's value as an NFL QB.

Someone once said that you can't be a consistent top team in the NFL without a Pro Bowl quality QB. Vick did not qualify, and I don't see it in RGIII or Johnny Football either. At least not without a major make-over under great coaching.

[Marshall Bennett]

Texans will likely nab him. According to the local paper here they may well be dumping the 3 quarterbacks they currently have.

[precocity]

image in my mind Ndamukong Suh blasting his azz!!!!! :lol: :lol: so long johnny!!!!!

[JustRalph]

Texans will likely nab him. According to the local paper here they may well be dumping the 3 quarterbacks they currently have.

Really stupid if they draft him. I agree he's too small.

He won't last after the meat grinder gets done with him

[Robert Fischer]

I actually think that if he somehow lands in a good organization with a good offensive coordinator, that he will be a star player, with production in the top 15 and top 10 starting QBs during his prime.

I'm not ready to vouch for Houston to be able to run such a system yet.

[headhawg]

I actually think that if he somehow lands in a good organization with a good offensive coordinator, that he will be a star player, with production in the top 15 and top 10 starting QBs during his prime.This sounds too much like the posts you made about Tebow. How'd that work out? Manziel has more QB skills than Tebow but he can't make all of the throws and really isn't big enough imo. I don't think that he's a better prospect than, let's say, Geno Smith from last year, and Smith had four years of college ball. He won't last until the 4th round because GMs will be desperate or stupid, but that's where I would think about taking him. Any earlier than that feels like an underlay to me.

[sammy the sage]

The guy is Fran Tarkenton, Doug Flutie, Capp, Young...all in one package...yes a bit small...BUT

If I'm Skins, Panthers, 49ers, Hawks or Eagles esp....I take him...even as a back-up...middle round obviously...

Desperate team that's CHANGING offense...w/a qb that is mobile...take him earlier...

Read option is HERE TO STAY...injuries be damned..

[Robert Fischer]

This sounds too much like the posts you made about Tebow. How'd that work out? Manziel has more QB skills than Tebow but he can't make all of the throws and really isn't big enough imo. I don't think that he's a better prospect than, let's say, Geno Smith from last year, and Smith had four years of college ball. He won't last until the 4th round because GMs will be desperate or stupid, but that's where I would think about taking him. Any earlier than that feels like an underlay to me.

You could be right. :ThmbUp:

[JustRalph]

Wherever he goes, they better have an offensive line or he will get murderized

[Marshall Bennett]

Then again he could be just good enough to where size won't be such a factor. I've seen the same said of smaller running backs that once they went pro that defenses would kill them. Some did, but a few proved them wrong.
Speed and elusiveness is tough to coral even in the NFL. Eric Metcalf made a living escaping danger.

[Stillriledup]

I would

No.

BUT.

If he fell to a later pick, yeah, i'd pick him at some point....but i do believe he's probably going to be drafted higher than his talent...some team is going to take a shot that he can bring the college magic to the Pro's.

Not for me at mid first round, but maybe late first round or early 2nd round i'd spend the pick on him, but not mid first round.

[TheEdge07]

Reminds me alot of ty detmer

[Bettowin]

He's a little and bigger Russell Wilson. I would take him.

[Robert Goren]

There better QBs to draft early. I see him as the 3rd or 4th QB taken. There is no way I take him before Bridgewater. No do I see the Texans doing it either.

[Robert Fischer]

MVjTlVcB1AQ

[cj's dad]

For what it is worth: I believe that NFL teams GM become infatuated with these QB's who can run outside the pocket, I think they are wrong, as in RG3 and Colin Kapernik. JM has little chance to succed in the NFL.

[elysiantraveller]

It's tough...

Bridgewater can make all the throws...

Tajh Boyd is probably the most durable of all of them...

Johnny Football is far and away is the most talented of them in terms of intangibles...

I guess it would just depend on what kind of offense you plan on running. We now have two threads on different QB's who would you take in this draft if you had to pick up a QB?

[Stillriledup]

For what it is worth: I believe that NFL teams GM become infatuated with these QB's who can run outside the pocket, I think they are wrong, as in RG3 and Colin Kapernik. JM has little chance to succed in the NFL.

Johnny Football has intangibles, but his downfall may be the WAY he plays the game, he tries to do too much and leaves himself open to big hits..maybe he was able to avoid those hits in college, but the pros are a different ballgame.

He needs to be REALLY smart about getting his rear end out of harms way, can't take those big shots and have a long career.

[JustRalph]

For what it is worth: I believe that NFL teams GM become infatuated with these QB's who can run outside the pocket, I think they are wrong, as in RG3 and Colin Kapernik. JM has little chance to succed in the NFL.

Exactly how I see it. Pure drop back, work inside the pocket QB's have many more Super Bowl rings than running scrambling QB's

[elysiantraveller]

Exactly how I see it. Pure drop back, work inside the pocket QB's have many more Super Bowl rings than running scrambling QB's
I kinda believe this argument but when you see someone like Aaron Rodgers it's kind of hard to argue that someone that can run out of the pocket isn't effective. When you look at the quarterbacks like Bridgewater and Manzeil it's hard to argue that they can't make it in the pros. I understand that Johnny is small, actually both of them are small. In the NFL it's all about systems and when a guy like Tom Brady can become one of the best quarterbacks in the history of the league it's because of the system, he wasn't that great at Michigan. If you put somebody like a Johnny Football in the system like the Texans have or the Falcons have then you have a recipe for disaster for other teams.

[Robert Fischer]

high praise:

Johnny Manziel's Style Is Reminiscent Of Joe Montana, Doug Flutie
http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidlariviere/2014/01/01/johnny-manziels-style-is-reminiscent-of-joe-montana-doug-flutie/

[ManU918]

This sounds too much like the posts you made about Tebow. How'd that work out? Manziel has more QB skills than Tebow but he can't make all of the throws and really isn't big enough imo. I don't think that he's a better prospect than, let's say, Geno Smith from last year, and Smith had four years of college ball. He won't last until the 4th round because GMs will be desperate or stupid, but that's where I would think about taking him. Any earlier than that feels like an underlay to me.

He wont make it to the 4th round? He wont make it past the top 10 in the first round. Are you trying to say Geno Smith will have a better career then Johnny Manziel in the NFL?

[Maximillion]

If I was drafting a QB I would certainly want a guy who could make all the throws......but I would weigh equally his intelligence and work ethic above all else as a final decision.

[headhawg]

He wont make it to the 4th round? He wont make it past the top 10 in the first round. Are you trying to say Geno Smith will have a better career then Johnny Manziel in the NFL?I think that they will both have equally bad-to-mediocre careers. But if they both came out in the same year, Smith would be taken higher than Manziel.

[ManU918]

I think that they will both have equally bad-to-mediocre careers. But if they both came out in the same year, Smith would be taken higher than Manziel.

Their careers will play out and we will see what happens.

Smith was in a draft with no QB talent at all and he went 39th overall. By the time they hit the 39th pick there are going to be atleast 4 QB's taken (if not more) and all of them would have went before Smith. There is a good chance that 3 QB's will be taken in the top 10 this year (Bridgewater, Bortles, Manziel). With Carr and if Hundley declares right behind them. With Manziel going in the first round of a QB heavy draft that tells you that he would have went in front of Smith in a draft with no QB talent.

[tucker6]

Their careers will play out and we will see what happens.

Smith was in a draft with no QB talent at all and he went 39th overall. By the time they hit the 39th pick there are going to be atleast 4 QB's taken (if not more) and all of them would have went before Smith. There is a good chance that 3 QB's will be taken in the top 10 this year (Bridgewater, Bortles, Manziel). With Carr and if Hundley declares right behind them. With Manziel going in the first round of a QB heavy draft that tells you that he would have went in front of Smith in a draft with no QB talent.
I don't dispute what you are saying, but don't see NFL elite written on any of their backs. This may be one of those QB heavy drafts that fails to produce a superstar.

[headhawg]

Their careers will play out and we will see what happens.

Smith was in a draft with no QB talent at all and he went 39th overall. By the time they hit the 39th pick there are going to be atleast 4 QB's taken (if not more) and all of them would have went before Smith. There is a good chance that 3 QB's will be taken in the top 10 this year (Bridgewater, Bortles, Manziel). With Carr and if Hundley declares right behind them. With Manziel going in the first round of a QB heavy draft that tells you that he would have went in front of Smith in a draft with no QB talent.No, it just tells me that the people making the draft decisions: 1) don't read scouting reports, 2) are falling for the hype that this is a deep QB draft, 3) are idiots. People in love with certain QBs (see Tebow) just don't get it. I truly am surprised at how many GMs have jobs. Jerry Angelo is a complete buffoon and he is up for the GM job in Tampa. He put the Bears in such a ridiculous hole with poor drafting over 10 years that he would be last on my list if I was in charge of football operations. Doesn't anybody look at performance anymore? This is not my opinion; look at how many of Angelo's picks made any NFL team. He sucks, and he is not the only GM in football who does. So some GM will waste a first rounder on Manziel. I'd feel less concerned if I thought the guy was coachable, but I'm not sure he is.

[ManU918]

I don't dispute what you are saying, but don't see NFL elite written on any of their backs. This may be one of those QB heavy drafts that fails to produce a superstar.

Hundley, Bortles, Bridgewater and Manziel have not declared yet... I am assuming that atleast Bortles, Brigewater and Manziel are going to but I have been wrong before (Barkley 2 years ago). So who knows what will happen. But assuming the three I mentioned do come out... I am confident Manziel will have the best NFL career of the three. He is already a "superstar" some just don't think that will translate to the NFL. I think it will.

[ManU918]

No, it just tells me that the people making the draft decisions: 1) don't read scouting reports, 2) are falling for the hype that this is a deep QB draft, 3) are idiots. People in love with certain QBs (see Tebow) just don't get it. I truly am surprised at how many GMs have jobs. Jerry Angelo is a complete buffoon and he is up for the GM job in Tampa. He put the Bears in such a ridiculous hole with poor drafting over 10 years that he would be last on my list if I was in charge of football operations. Doesn't anybody look at performance anymore? This is not my opinion; look at how many of Angelo's picks made any NFL team. He sucks, and he is not the only GM in football who does. So some GM will waste a first rounder on Manziel. I'd feel less concerned if I thought the guy was coachable, but I'm not sure he is.

One team fell in love with Tebow... The Broncos (Josh McDaniels)... Anyone who thought Tebow would do anything in the NFL does not follow college football and clearly can not tell the difference between the two games (NCAA/NFL). This happens in every sport though (Look at the Cavs and Anthony Bennett) somehow these GM's land these jobs and just make complete asses of themselves. But IMO trying to compare Manziel to Tebow is ridiculous and saying that Geno Smith is going to have a better NFL career is just as ridiculous. Smith had 12 touchdowns, 21 interceptions and 8 fumbles. At this point even the Jets wont commit to him being the starter next season. Oh yea.... And one other thing... Can someone tell Smith to keep his dick in his pants.... http://deadspin.com/geno-smith-undergoes-jets-rite-of-passage-a-cock-shot-1493055000

[headhawg]

But IMO trying to compare Manziel to Tebow is ridiculous and saying that Geno Smith is going to have a better NFL career is just as ridiculous. Smith had 12 touchdowns, 21 interceptions and 8 fumbles.Clearly you have a hard-on for Manziel and that's ok. And to be clear -- I was only comparing the impressions that people have/had of Tebow and Manziel, not the QBs themselves. And I wrote that both Smith and Manziel would have bad to mediocre careers, not that Smith would have a better one. Try reading sometime; you might learn something.

[ManU918]

Clearly you have a hard-on for Manziel and that's ok. And to be clear -- I was only comparing the impressions that people have/had of Tebow and Manziel, not the QBs themselves. And I wrote that both Smith and Manziel would have bad to mediocre careers, not that Smith would have a better one. Try reading sometime; you might learn something.

On a personal level I really can't stand Manziel but I respect him as a player. Read wrong before or reading it correctly now... Manziel will have a better than bad to mediocre career. We can revisit this thread in 4 years.

[headhawg]

Manziel will have a better than bad to mediocre career. We can revisit this thread in 4 years.Fair enough.

[Robert Goren]

I kinda believe this argument but when you see someone like Aaron Rodgers it's kind of hard to argue that someone that can run out of the pocket isn't effective. When you look at the quarterbacks like Bridgewater and Manzeil it's hard to argue that they can't make it in the pros. I understand that Johnny is small, actually both of them are small. In the NFL it's all about systems and when a guy like Tom Brady can become one of the best quarterbacks in the history of the league it's because of the system, he wasn't that great at Michigan. If you put somebody like a Johnny Football in the system like the Texans have or the Falcons have then you have a recipe for disaster for other teams.There is a big difference between QBs like Rodgers who can when they have to scramble a bit and the read option types. I don't think you can make a living very long being a running QB in the NFL.

[tucker6]

There is a big difference between QBs like Rodgers who can when they have to scramble a bit and the read option types. I don't think you can make a living very long being a running QB in the NFL.
agreed. Big difference with Rodgers and Big Ben versus the RGIII and Vick types. One group can run when the pocket collapses. The other group runs when their first read is covered. One wins SB's. The other doesn't.

[Marshall Bennett]

Btw, at 6'0" 210 lbs. he's not exactly tiny. Lots of wide receivers are smaller and take their fare share of pounding. A lot may depend on how he uses his head. He can't afford some of the stunts he did at A&M and being a passer first can't escape his mind.
I hope he does well, the game is overdue for a superstar.

[Relwob Owner]

I would


Me too. I am a huge Browns fan and hope they take him at 4. He is worth the risk IMO. I would be surprised if he doesn't go to someone in the top 10.

[Stillriledup]

Mel Kiper is.

[Stillriledup]

NFL draft tonight, gonna be interesting.

[Valuist]

I was initially skeptical on Manziel, figuring he was just a running QB. I've seen a little of him at A & M but maybe 4-5 games. In the throwing drills, he looked good. Better than I expected. And in Gruden's QB show, he gave all the right answers.

The media obsessed over him a bit. Yeah, he likes to party with 20 year old girls. So what? Who wouldn't do the same if they were in his shoes?

I don't know how good a pro he will be but I'm guessing it will be decidedly better than Geno Smith, as somebody compared them earlier in the thread.

Big variance with Manziel. He could be a bust but he also has a chance to be the most significant player in this draft.

[Dark Horse]

I wouldn't draft him.

This is the era of cerebral QB's. Not of hot shot kids who think it's about them first. Best team for him? Rrrrraiders...

[Marshall Bennett]

I'm hoping the Texans go with him. :cool:

[Stillriledup]

I wouldn't draft him.

This is the era of cerebral QB's. Not of hot shot kids who think it's about them first. Best team for him? Rrrrraiders...

I would draft him, but not in the first round. Has charisma, some talent, a decent "Feel" for the game, but he's small and puts himself in too many dangerous situations, he's winning games and making plays with his legs, you can't get away with that in the Pros.

Is he smart enough to change his game and "get down" or is he going to pull an RG3 and just run, run, run?

[Dark Horse]

I would draft him, but not in the first round. Has charisma, some talent, a decent "Feel" for the game, but he's small and puts himself in too many dangerous situations, he's winning games and making plays with his legs, you can't get away with that in the Pros.

Is he smart enough to change his game and "get down" or is he going to pull an RG3 and just run, run, run?


He better have a strong OL to protect him. All I'll say. lol

[Relwob Owner]

I would draft him, but not in the first round. Has charisma, some talent, a decent "Feel" for the game, but he's small and puts himself in too many dangerous situations, he's winning games and making plays with his legs, you can't get away with that in the Pros.

Is he smart enough to change his game and "get down" or is he going to pull an RG3 and just run, run, run?


No he isn't...he threw for 37 TD's and over 4100 yards last season so that isn't winning games and making plays only or even mostly with his legs. In fact, he ran for about half as many yards and scored about half as many TD's running in his second year as he did in his first(and increased his passing TD's as well), showing he developed his passing over just running and he will continue to do so in the Pros. I would take him and I don't see him slipping out of the top 15.

[Relwob Owner]

I wouldn't draft him.

This is the era of cerebral QB's. Not of hot shot kids who think it's about them first. Best team for him? Rrrrraiders...


Check out his Wonderlic score of 32. If it is the era of cerebral QB's, I think he will be just fine. As far as it being about him first, sure he's arrogant and cocky, but all I ever see him doing for the most part is backing that up.

[Stillriledup]

No he isn't...he threw for 37 TD's and over 4100 yards last season so that isn't winning games and making plays only or even mostly with his legs. In fact, he ran for about half as many yards and scored about half as many TD's running in his second year as he did in his first(and increased his passing TD's as well), showing he developed his passing over just running and he will continue to do so in the Pros. I would take him and I don't see him slipping out of the top 15.

Every highlight i see, he's running. I didnt realize he was a pocket passer. I apologize if that's the case.

[Robert Fischer]

The Browns seem to be the logical destination, but the NFL doesn't always agree w/ my logic, and I haven't been researching the likely selections.

I'd like to see Manziel at least go to team that can claim to be rebuilding and has a possibility of getting organized on offense (not the Jags from what we've seen).

Interesting draft.
I really dislike most of the other highly-rated QBs, and Clowney is kind of a mystery in terms of all around play (although he seems like he could be a dominant first-move pass rusher).

[Relwob Owner]

Every highlight i see, he's running. I didnt realize he was a pocket passer. I apologize if that's the case.

Cant blame ya there, as that is what seems to be on the highlights. No apologies needed, but if you check the stats, he was actually an extremely good passer and as I said, his running decreased. Being a Browns fan, I am obviously very interested in him....I hope we take Watkins(if still available and take the best QB available at with our second pick) but if we get JM, I won't be disappointed. Should be a fun, interesting draft.

[Stillriledup]

Cant blame ya there, as that is what seems to be on the highlights. No apologies needed, but if you check the stats, he was actually an extremely good passer and as I said, his running decreased. Being a Browns fan, I am obviously very interested in him....I hope we take Watkins(if still available and take the best QB available at with our second pick) but if we get JM, I won't be disappointed. Should be a fun, interesting draft.

Yes, im actually excited to see the draft because i watched more college FB last year than in recent times, so i know a bunch of the players. Lots of talk in recent months on Manziel, Clowney and a few of these QBs, Bridgewater and guys like that...certainly be interesting to see what happens.

[JustRalph]

Blake Bortles goes 3rd. I guess we are getting our answer?

Does Johnny Football get embarrassed ? Bills move up in trade with Cleveland, so those who thought Cleveland would take Johnny, guess not.

Still early though

[Relwob Owner]

Blake Bortles goes 3rd. I guess we are getting our answer?

Does Johnny Football get embarrassed ? Bills move up in trade with Cleveland, so those who thought Cleveland would take Johnny, guess not.

Still early though


The Jags are crazy taking him that high IMO....most evaluations of him have "project" somewhere in there....I love Watkins but love what that Cleveland got what they did and the Bills paid a pretty steep price. I don't see Manziel slipping past the Giants or Dallas if he gets there.

[JustRalph]

Manziel starting to look like Brady Quinn........

Cleveland just passed on him again...........

[BetHorses!]

honestly, i'm surprised he has not gone yet. Thought Browns for sure....then maybe Vikes. Vikes made awful pick too

[Relwob Owner]

Gotta figure the Giants or Cowboys nab him and worst case Zona?

Gotta say I wish the Browns took him but Gilbert is a solid pick IMO

[precocity]

jerry jones pt. Barnum of the nfl will take him!

[Relwob Owner]

jerry jones pt. Barnum of the nfl will take him!


Agreed

[JustRalph]

jerry jones pt. Barnum of the nfl will take him!

Exactly what I was thinking!!

They will go nuts in Dallas!!

[Stillriledup]

Exactly what I was thinking!!

They will go nuts in Dallas!!

Its almost a lock, Jones wants ratings, revenue and jersey sales and hype, he's not too interested in winning.

Winning doesn't pay the bills!

[Stillriledup]

jerry jones pt. Barnum of the nfl will take him!

LOL Chris Berman just said Jerry Jones is PT Barnum!!!

[Robert Fischer]

Berman is a horse racing fan.

[JustRalph]

Can't believe he passed :eek:

[precocity]

LOL Chris Berman just said Jerry Jones is PT Barnum!!!
:lol: that was funny! guess oh jj is getting the point! passed! :cool:

[Robert Fischer]

Drew Brees is 35 years old. ;)

[JustRalph]

Monica Lewinsky is war dialing for Packer tickets right now.........

[JustRalph]

The good thing for Manziel?

4 flights a day on Southwest direct to Dallas, every day.......

[Relwob Owner]

The good thing for Manziel?

4 flights a day on Southwest direct to Dallas, every day.......


Glad my Browns got him but just read they gave up a third rounder to move up? Seems like a lot

[Stillriledup]

Glad my Browns got him but just read they gave up a third rounder to move up? Seems like a lot

Naw, i don't think so, i think you guys got an amazing draft, you got 2 good players and a first rounder for next season, you couldn't have done better i don't think.

[Relwob Owner]

Naw, i don't think so, i think you guys got an amazing draft, you got 2 good players and a first rounder for next season, you couldn't have done better i don't think.


I agree but wonder just a little about Gilbert and just a little about giving up a 3rd to move up such a short amount of picks. That being said, I had read that the Chiefs liked Manziel spo maybe it was necessary. Overall, I agree with you and am please and am hoping Marquis Lee slips to 35!

[Robert Fischer]

Browns improved the value of their franchise tonight.

[Relwob Owner]

Browns improved the value of their franchise tonight.


Agreed....only a few more spots for Lee to slip and we would have a pretty good complement to Gordon at wideout

[FantasticDan]

Is there some actual reason all the fans boo the commish when he walks to the podium, or are they just not able to contain their asshole-ish-ness? :p

[highnote]

In my opinion, Browns were doing great until they drafted Manziel.

If Browns wanted a Heisman Trophy winning college QB they could have saved their draft pick and signed Tebow instead.

The only good thing about Manziel is that maybe the Browns can trade him to some other team for a few future draft picks.

Rookie players are like yearlings -- you can sell "potential". For whatever reason people will pay a premium for unproven talent if they believe there is a lot of potential.

[cj's dad]

JM is your typical college QB that has speed and elusiveness. Yes, he was a great college QB. This will not translate into a great pro or even above average OB in the NFL.

Lets look at the QB's of similar talent and see how they compare to JM:

RGIII- A fraud who can't exploit his speed versus NFL defenders; not a pocket passer which you have to be

CK-49er's - see above

Vince Young- see above

and the list is never ending

[Bettowin]

Glad my Browns got him but just read they gave up a third rounder to move up? Seems like a lot

"Glad my Browns got him" is the kiss of death to NFL QB's. Hope it works out for Johnny but I don't see it.

[Relwob Owner]

JM is your typical college QB that has speed and elusiveness. Yes, he was a great college QB. This will not translate into a great pro or even above average OB in the NFL.

Lets look at the QB's of similar talent and see how they compare to JM:

RGIII- A fraud who can't exploit his speed versus NFL defenders; not a pocket passer which you have to be

CK-49er's - see above

Vince Young- see above

and the list is never ending


I think the stats refute your opinions.....in terms of "similar talent", Manziel was much better statistically in only his second year than CK and VY were in their senior years, throwing for about 10 more touchdowns than each and many more yards.

JM was about the same in his sophomore year as RG3 was in his senior year. However, a look at the stats shows that RG3 showed that he wasn't a "fraud" at all before they idiotically let him play against the Seahawks and ruined his knee.....he was a VERY good pocket passer in his rookie year, throwing for 20 TD's, over 3200 yes with a rating of 102.4, which aren't the numbers of someone who isn't a good pocket passer, especially in just their rookie year.

Will JM be able to avoid getting hurt like RG3? Time will tell....

[Relwob Owner]

JM is your typical college QB that has speed and elusiveness. Yes, he was a great college QB. This will not translate into a great pro or even above average OB in the NFL.

Lets look at the QB's of similar talent and see how they compare to JM:

RGIII- A fraud who can't exploit his speed versus NFL defenders; not a pocket passer which you have to be

CK-49er's - see above

Vince Young- see above

and the list is never ending


I think the stats refute your opinions.....in terms of "similar talent", Manziel was much better statistically in only his second year than CK and VY were in their senior years, throwing for about 10 more touchdowns than each and many more yards.

JM was about the same in his sophomore year as RG3 was in his senior year. However, a look at the stats shows that RG3 showed that he wasn't a "fraud" at all before they idiotically let him play against the Seahawks and ruined his knee.....he was a VERY good pocket passer in his rookie year, throwing for 20 TD's, over 3200 yds with a rating of 102.4, which aren't the numbers of someone who isn't a good pocket passer, especially in just their rookie year.

Will JM be able to avoid getting hurt like RG3? Time will tell....

[Valuist]

JM is your typical college QB that has speed and elusiveness. Yes, he was a great college QB. This will not translate into a great pro or even above average OB in the NFL.

Lets look at the QB's of similar talent and see how they compare to JM:

RGIII- A fraud who can't exploit his speed versus NFL defenders; not a pocket passer which you have to be

CK-49er's - see above

Vince Young- see above

and the list is never ending

RGIII was hurt last year. Did you watch him play in 2012? He, not Andrew Luck, was the Rookie of the Year. A healthy RGIII is a force.

No Russell Wilson on the list? He's a similar type player. But yeah, he's won a Super Bowl and had a QB rating of 100 both seasons.

Kaepernick has been a starter for 2 seasons; he got to the Super Bowl in one of them and the NFC championship game in the other. How many QBs can say that?

Other than Vince Young, who was a complete bust, I'm sure Browns fans will be quite happy if they get the production of an RGIII, Kaepernick or Wilson.

Do I detect some division rival bitterness?

[Relwob Owner]

RGIII was hurt last year. Did you watch him play in 2012? He, not Andrew Luck, was the Rookie of the Year. A healthy RGIII is a force.

No Russell Wilson on the list? He's a similar type player. But yeah, he's won a Super Bowl and had a QB rating of 100 both seasons.

Kaepernick has been a starter for 2 seasons; he got to the Super Bowl in one of them and the NFC championship game in the other. How many QBs can say that?

Other than Vince Young, who was a complete bust, I'm sure Browns fans will be quite happy if they get the production of an RGIII, Kaepernick or Wilson.

Do I detect some division rival bitterness?


Could be.......Very good points. Changing gears, I would not be happy if I were a Bills fan. First, they reach last year on a QB and then this year, they give up way too much to try and make last year's reach better. Glad that the Browns were on the good end of the trade.

[highnote]

Manziel seemed disappointed he was going to the Browns. The guy who looked really disappointed is the one that played at UCLA and got drafted by Minnesota.

Minneapolis in January is nothing like SoCal in January. :D

If I was an NFL player there is only one team I'd want to play for -- The Chargers. I don't care what their record is. As long as they pay me and I get to live in San Diego, I'm good. :)

[MutuelClerk]

Josh Gordon wanted him. Josh obviously gets what he wants.

[Relwob Owner]

Josh Gordon wanted him. Josh obviously gets what he wants.


Well, Josh Gordon may not be playing next year....wonder if the Browns knew this yesterday and if they did, why they didn't address wide receiver and why they just passed on Lee.....

[Stillriledup]

Manziel seemed disappointed he was going to the Browns. The guy who looked really disappointed is the one that played at UCLA and got drafted by Minnesota.

Minneapolis in January is nothing like SoCal in January. :D

If I was an NFL player there is only one team I'd want to play for -- The Chargers. I don't care what their record is. As long as they pay me and I get to live in San Diego, I'm good. :)

Its hard to be "Excited" to be making a living outdoors in Cleveland when your months of employment are sept-January.

[JustRalph]

Its hard to be "Excited" to be making a living outdoors in Cleveland when your months of employment are sept-January.

It's the same look everybody going to Cleveland has on their face....... :lol:

It's a death spiral for quarterbacks.............

The owner doesn't know how to play to the fans either.

After the pick, the cheapest ticket to a Browns game (sold online) went from $60 to $100 and they issued a press release this morning revealing that fact.

In spite of the deafness, they sold 1200 new season tickets after midnight last night. I don't get it........?

[rastajenk]

They will probably get some Sunday/Monday night games for a while that they wouldn't have otherwise; that seems to be some kind of benchmark for national respect.

[Robert Fischer]

It's the same look everybody going to Cleveland has on their face....... :lol:

oh man :D

[Stillriledup]

oh man :D

:D

Wow that's harsh!

[JustRalph]

I've got a condo a half hour south of Cleveland.......anybody got Manziel's email address? The current lease is up just in time for training camp....... :ThmbUp:

[cj's dad]

It's the same look everybody going to Cleveland has on their face....... :lol:

It's a death spiral for quarterbacks.............

The owner doesn't know how to play to the fans either.

After the pick, the cheapest ticket to a Browns game (sold online) went from $60 to $100 and they issued a press release this morning revealing that fact.

In spite of the deafness, they sold 1200 new season tickets after midnight last night. I don't get it........?

Up to 2700 now. I wonder how many won't renew due to the $$$ increase ?

[JustRalph]

Up to 2700 now. I wonder how many won't renew due to the $$$ increase ?

I cannot believe these people are jumping in to buy season ticks?

This guy hasn't thrown a pass yet in training camp?

He's one soft tackle away from getting hurt?

[Relwob Owner]

I cannot believe these people are jumping in to buy season ticks?

This guy hasn't thrown a pass yet in training camp?

He's one soft tackle away from getting hurt?

Makes pretty good sense to me. He was an electrifying player in college and people want to see if it translates to the pros and if it does, they want to be there to see it. Plus, the beginning of the draft showed that the Browns actually have somewhat of a plan in place. Fans were happy for about 20 hours, when Josh Gordon brought us back to earth.....

[JustRalph]

Makes pretty good sense to me. He was an electrifying player in college and people want to see if it translates to the pros and if it does, they want to be there to see it. Plus, the beginning of the draft showed that the Browns actually have somewhat of a plan in place. Fans were happy for about 20 hours, when Josh Gordon brought us back to earth.....

I'm still trying figure out how your a Browns fan?

[Valuist]

Josh Gordon is an idiot. Hope those joints were worth costing you a year of pay. :confused:

[delayjf]

Accuracy? Some yes and some no depending on the throw

When I watched him play I was not impressed with his accuracy - especially when he seemed to have all day to throw and was rarely under any kind of pressure.
JMO.

[Relwob Owner]

I'm still trying figure out how your a Browns fan?


Good question JR-grew up in DC and was nauseated at the Skins fans and their fair weather ways. So, had to go somewhere else and loved the Browns teams during the early-mid 80's and so I stayed with them. Lets just say between being a Browns fans and a Wizards fan all of my life, I have severe emotional damage......

[JustRalph]

Good question JR-grew up in DC and was nauseated at the Skins fans and their fair weather ways. So, had to go somewhere else and loved the Browns teams during the early-mid 80's and so I stayed with them. Lets just say between being a Browns fans and a Wizards fan all of my life, I have severe emotional damage......

Growing up two hours from Cleveland, as a young kid I cheered for Leroy Kelly and those teams. But soon the Bengals became the team in central Ohio.

Of course in Columbus there is really only one football team. The church of Woody Hayes was the real religion.

[JustRalph]

For the first time since 1937

No Texas Longhorns drafted..... :eek:

[MutuelClerk]

Josh Gordon is an idiot. Hope those joints were worth costing you a year of pay. :confused:

The policy is terrible. Sure he's supposed to abide. But a year off for pot? C'mon. Refer Madness lives......

[PhantomOnTour]

For the first time since 1937

No Texas Longhorns drafted..... :eek:
:lol: :lol:
wonder how my old Pal El Kabong is taking that

His boy Mack Brown (man of utmost integrity) recruited Jameis Winston, Johnny Manziel, RG III and that Tannehill guy who QB's for the Dolphins...

and didn't want any of them to play QB at Texas :lol:
that's three Heisman Trophy winning QB's that he thought would be better off playing another position :D

El Kabong has been MIA for awhile now

[Tall One]

Who wants some cake? :VOMIT:

[tucker6]

The policy is terrible. Sure he's supposed to abide. But a year off for pot? C'mon. Refer Madness lives......
The bolded is really the only point to be made. Every business has policies that are known to all employees in advance. Whether you or I believe some policies are silly or not, it takes a real dummy to risk his financial life over any of those house rules.

[headhawg]

Looks like this is real. Good luck to Cleveland, although they haven't been too smart about anything for a long, long time.

NE scouting report (http://www.brobible.com/sports/article/johnny-manziel-scouting-report-new-england-patriots/)

[Robert Fischer]

The Eagles may have landed a value with their 4th round selection.
This guy is going to be a good defensive back in coverage.
He keeps the game in front of him and closes on the ball very quickly.
etETj4p79YA

[Dark Horse]

Looks like this is real. Good luck to Cleveland, although they haven't been too smart about anything for a long, long time.

NE scouting report (http://www.brobible.com/sports/article/johnny-manziel-scouting-report-new-england-patriots/)

Good stuff.

Very interesting to see what they're looking for and not looking for. Pats look at everything, on and off the field. A strong culture is what gives them consistency.

[horses4courses]

What a bunch of hype over this guy.
Scary how the media can build someone, or something, up
and the public swallows it hook, line, and sinker.

When I heard someone had been anointed "Johnny Football"
during their college career, I shook my head.
Unitas or Elway deserve that title through their pro achievements.
An up and coming college kid?

He may look great against other college kids.
That probably won't cut it in the NFL.

[Bettowin]

It was a few years ago but the saying stuck with me and IMO has merit about QB's.

In college they throw to open receivers and in the NFL they throw to spots where receivers are going to be open.


Huge difference in many ways.

[Stillriledup]

Why all the hate (from everyone) against Johnny Football? Seems like he's being held to some kind of higher standard than any other 22nd overall selection with plenty of people really happy to see him fail.

Why him?

[Marshall Bennett]

Not sure, but if you were to look back at some of the greats you might find similar results in their debut. Not that he's destined to be great by any stretch. It's way early to write him off entirely.

[Stillriledup]

Not sure, but if you were to look back at some of the greats you might find similar results in their debut. Not that he's destined to be great by any stretch. It's way early to write him off entirely.

Everyone is writing him off after one loss. Not only are they writing him off, they're sending him COD and they're overjoyed at his failure.

[Robert Goren]

Good stuff.

Very interesting to see what they're looking for and not looking for. Pats look at everything, on and off the field. A strong culture is what gives them consistency. That is why they drafted Aaron Hernandez.

[burnsy]

Some of this is "Johnny Footballs" personality and much of it is the hype as Horses4 stated. The coach seems to be somewhat of a dullard too. Watch some of his interviews. The "TV" people and so called analysis folks were pressing for this as soon as Hoyer had a couple of bad games. When is the last time Cleveland managed anything? "Lets start him the 14th game of the year during the playoff run." Fools, shut off the TV and block out the "Hype media". You should know you got a kid with zero experience. Some of those jack asses actually picked the Browns to win this week, others actually thought he would pick up the team. Of course, either way the jerk offs on TV had something to sell or hype....whether he looks good or is a flop. They don't really give a shit....its about ratings. And Cleveland, the circus that it usually is...throws the kid to the lions den. Just a dumb, bad move all around. What do people expect? Now the general public is jaded, these jack offs on TV made it sound like he would be gang busters. Every time Cleveland struggled. They were itching to beg him in there and these morons in Cleveland obliged. Now watch this week some of the same jack asses that raved for him will be questioning him. The guy is not even ready yet. There are certain teams that are such a mismanaged joke in this league and Cleveland is one of them. Cincy coming off a loss smelled blood yesterday and the team support for Johnny was crap. Hey Mike Pettine, you, the owner, and the GM should turn off the TV and manage the team. Maybe if you won now and again you wouldn't need a circus to sell tickets. If this kid stays around people like this....you can write him off...even if he's good.

[horses4courses]

Why all the hate (from everyone) against Johnny Football? Seems like he's being held to some kind of higher standard than any other 22nd overall selection with plenty of people really happy to see him fail.

Why him?

It's not hate for Johnny Manziel.
I wish my Bears had him - on the sideline, for now.
The kid obviously has loads of talent, but he needs a
learning period to bring it out properly.

What I hate is all the media hype.
It's a total circus.

[thaskalos]

At 55% completions this year, Hoyer has been the most inaccurate quarterback in the league...and his team had lost 3 out of 4. The pressure was mounting on Pettine to make a QB change even before the Indy game, and there would have been hell to pay if he stayed with Hoyer and still lost the Cinci game. With Cleveland being such a stranger in the playoffs, coach Pettine had to roll the dice and start Manziel. The classic no-win situation...IMO.

[Robert Fischer]

Manziel's 'ceiling' will be up to the coaching. - Could be utilized similar to Russel Wilson as an on-field extension of an offensive coordinator.

but his 'basement' will be up to him. Too early to tell much.

This is the browns. I don't know much about them, but bringing in a really smart offensive coordinator (maybe they have one at the moment?), doesn't seem to be their style.

We could see some flash-and-dash at least, if he gets his act together.

If reports of his off-field party atmosphere are even close to true, some humble pie could be just what the Dr. ordered as far as motivation.

[thaskalos]

Manziel's 'ceiling' will be up to the coaching. - Could be utilized similar to Russel Wilson as an on-field extension of an offensive coordinator.

but his 'basement' will be up to him. Too early to tell much.

This is the browns. I don't know much about them, but bringing in a really smart offensive coordinator (maybe they have one at the moment?), doesn't seem to be their style.

We could see some flash-and-dash at least, if he gets his act together.

If reports of his off-field party atmosphere are even close to true, some humble pie could be just what the Dr. ordered as far as motivation.

Exactly! :ThmbUp:

[Stillriledup]

Exactly! :ThmbUp:

His legs made him look flashy in college, that doesn't work in the Pros, the players are too fast, you can't just outrun people....so, you gotta figure out another way to do things.

[tucker6]

Johnny is the gift that keeps on giving...

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12083760/josh-gordon-suspended-cleveland-browns-season-finale

Misses treatment only three days after pledging to change his ways. LOL