All In One

[Jaguar]

Kitts, just saw All In One in action at OTB, on my friend's laptop- handled Gulstream nicely. Good program- but a bit of a shock to users of the old version.

Code Monkey dropped the reports. Amazing, -All In One users need and want the reports, I am sure.

Buyers are apparently not even aware that the reports have been taken out.

I don't think All In One veterans will spring for this version in any great numbers. Cynthia needs to correct this and to send anyone who has paid for the new version a free add-on, upgrade disc- with the missing reports.

How treacherous the murky software waters can be for the unwary. Especially considering how much money is involved.

Welcome to the world of horse handicapping software, let the buyer beware.

Kitts, you are a guy who is close to the throne- our very own insider- please fill us in.

Thanks.

All The Best,

Jaguar

[cato]

Jaguar--

Well I'm no Kitts, but I have seen a lot of computer programs and the latest version of All in One is an excellent windows based program. While they did drop the reports (and did a poor job of informing people that they were not going to be included), I understand that the reports and many other features will be included in a free upgrade/supplement that is scheduled to be out this summer.

Take care, Cato

[Jaguar]

Cato, thanks for the update. Cynthia has always been a dependable operation and I'm glad that they're stepping up to the plate and taking responsibility.

It's a bit of a shock when a developer announces a major upgrade and then shorts the buyer on fundamental features.

Terrible judgment on Cynthia's part.

Glad we have this Forum to get the word out.

All The Best,

Jaguar

[headhawg]

Originally posted by Jaguar
It's a bit of a shock when a developer announces a major upgrade and then shorts the buyer on fundamental features.

They're not starting to use the M$ business model, are they? :)

[kitts]

As cato points out, the Reports will be part of the free V6 upgrade. The monumental job of re-coding V5 took such a very long time a decision was made to get V6 out and give the Reports as a free upgrade. Now the people can have a multi-platform program and still get the Reports feature.
Codemonkey is now beating his brains out to get the Reports thing working as well as the rest of V6

[Jaguar]

Kitts, thanks for jumping in. Good to hear that Cynthia's on the job.

All The Best,

Jaguar

[Jaguar]

headhawg,

some of us old-timers have grown a bit wary over the years.

In the late 80's and early 90's, developers were disappearing like draft-eligible men in 1968.

Usually they just took the money and ran. Some, like RaceCom, actually delivered the product, but most of the time it was unusable or hopelessly inadequate.

Even today we have guys peddling handicapping programs which are grossly over-priced. One popular program sells for $400 and uses 18 factors in analyzing pp's, and misses the typical trainer tricks and stunts. Great program for picking favorites, though.

(Just to clarify this point. The other day, a Gulfstream trainer who runs Maiden Claimers, entered a "stretch out" horse, hit him with the juice- or something, and the animal- running in its usual class, showing nothing in its most recent 2- but putting in a big finish 3 races back-closed strongly and won, at a huge Mutuel.

The trainer in question has a habit of doing this-(coloring an animal's form)- and the smart software caught this pattern. The basic speed and pace discs missed it completely.)

If this complicated, subtle game could be beaten by picking winning overlays based on a breakdown of 18 factors, there would be alot of wealthy handicappers in this country.

$30 horses would pay $4.00 and handicappers would eventually lose interest and would start looking at commodity futures trading, instead.

I notice that a few folks who post on this board will rush to extoll some ho-hum handicapping program, telling us that they're making good money with it- and then 2 months later they are advertising the same program for sale.

We've got one intense "fan" on here who "loves" the new program he bought- a program which a couple of guys touted on PA- the only thing is, this $400 software only works on certain types of races. So now he just waits for those races.

The fact that a reputable company, such as Cynthia, shipped All In One stripped of its features, is only mildly surprising-considering the way that so many Pirates have sashayed through the handicapping ranks in the past.

At least Cynthia shipped the product(and it really works), and is willing to make good on the shorted features.

All The Best,

Jaguar

[LOU M.]

Which program/s provided you with this trainer insight.I have been looking for software which could analyze trainer data and learn so it could project trainer intent.

[sq764]

Louie, Propace does that.

www.a1handicapping.com

[Jeevan]

bris files
speaking of all-in-one, does anyone know of a method of using bris files with all-in-one V5. Can it be done? I purchased a full version of V5 from cynthia and then decided to use bris leaving the software unuseable. ---Jeevan

[Speed Figure]

Originally posted by Jeevan
bris files
speaking of all-in-one, does anyone know of a method of using bris files with all-in-one V5. Can it be done? I purchased a full version of V5 from cynthia and then decided to use bris leaving the software unuseable. ---Jeevan
There is no method. You use HDW or use nothing!

[Jaguar]

Lou,

All-Ways Pro. version, ProPace, Multi-Strats v.7.5(Titan).

All The best,

Jaguar

[Richard]

After recently purchasing AIO V6,I spoke with CM over the phone and he assured me that the reports feature will be included in the summer update.I also told him that I hoped he would also include stuff like Toteboard Utilities (very good for figuring place/show prices)that I have on my Easy Capper program.
Richard

[andicap]

Originally posted by sq764
Louie, Propace does that.

www.a1handicapping.com

How does Propace track trainer trends? I'm a little familiar with the old DOS version and I looked up the new Windows on the website and it seems all Propace does is give pace figures and LJ's longshot moves and a betting line......

:confused:

[Jaguar]

Andicap, some programs use common trainer angles, gimmicks, tricks and stunts as handicapping criteria- without maintaining a database of individual trainer patterns.

A few expert systems discs analyze specific, individual trainer patterns- in concert with a variety of algorithms written to identify well-known moves.

In a track-specific model, when a handicapping program finds a strong individual trainer, and when that trainer enters a horse which shows pp's matching the stats common to winners in that type of race, the computer screen really lights up.

Old-time handicappers sometimes refer to such an animal as a "Profile" horse. In other words, a horse which fits the profile of a winner.

Horse programs which handicap trainer angles without maintaining a database of individual trainer patterns are operating under real limitations.

None of these "trainer pattern" programs are of any interest to the vast majority of OTB veterans, who live and die by the Beyer numbers- and who scoff at the notion that a race horse's conditioner has any influence at all on the outcome of a race.

Some "trainer tracking" handicappers hope that this situation will continue, say for- another 20 years or so. -But then, some of these guys are particularly mercenary individuals.

All The Best,

Jaguar

[sq764]

Andi, Propace doesn't track trainer trends.. I was moreso addressing your comment of trainer intent..

Propace is heavily weighed on trainer intent. (Trainer angles)

[plainolebill]

Re ProPace: They're just canned angles. Not trainer specific or database info.

[raybo]

Concerning trainer stats, is anyone familiar with Bris' "Multicaps" data files? Fields #1337 thru 1366 contain 6 trainer categories. Does anyone happen to know what these categories are? Under each category they list : # of starts, win%, in-the-money%, and $2 ROI. I suppose I could contact Bris for this info, but thought some of you might already know the scoop on these fields. I use the data files in my own spreadsheet and have been toying with the idea of incorporating trainer stats and moves into the program, but haven't been able to figure a way to access this type of data without building my own database, which I am disinclined to do as I am not a DB guy. I presently try to determine trainer intent via the last 10 PP's. Hard to do, to say the least.

[Handle]

Raybo -- the trainer stats are not a set of standard stats. They try to give you the top 3-4 stats that are relevant to the situation the trainer is in with the horse.

For example, in a MC race you may see a "maiden claiming" stat for the trainer. If a first time starter, you may see a "first time starter" stat. The category of the stat is given in one of the fields, right next to the # of starts.

[raybo]

RE:<Raybo -- the trainer stats are not a set of standard stats. They try to give you the top 3-4 stats that are relevant to the situation the trainer is in with the horse.>


So these stats are race specific and you will only get stats for each race that pertain to that particular race and it's specific environment?

This seems ok, on the surface, but it appears that these stats would be very limited and probably low value. I had in mind more complex stats, but I assume Bris isn't going to offer more complex stats with any but their most expensive file formats, like "Allways". Too bad, but I might check out the categories anyway, never know, there might be something there that could be useful.

Thanks, Handle.

[Handle]

Raybo,

I'd agree more or less with how you phrased it. If you see a stat for "Allowance Races" that stat is good for any old allowance race that the trainer has been in. But, as you point out, you don't have any control over how that stat gets constructed (which circuits, how far back the data goes, etc.). I do think that these stats can be used productively though (its just that now DRF prints them too....) I remember finding some real gems using those stats alone before I added the "connection stats" stuff to EquiSim.

[raybo]

RE:<I do think that these stats can be used productively though (its just that now DRF prints them too....) >

I would be using the stats strictly as another factor in trying to determine trainer intent for cases where little info, regarding a horse's current physical condition, is available in the data. Sometimes just knowing what the trainer has done in the past will shed some light on what he has in mind with a particular horse. And often, that's the difference between winning and losing a wager. I'm not big on following trainers and jockeys but some decent stats would certainly be helpful.

[bcgreg]

Hello:

I am interested in purchasing All In One V5

My email is bob.gregory@comcast.net if any one is interested.

Best regards,
bcgreg

[kitts]

Bob-

IMHO, All-In-One V6 is an improvement over V5. Drop by the Horsetalk Forum at cynthiapublishing.com and read all about it. Since I was (and still am) a Beta Tester for V6 I just saw a nifty feature in their next upgrade that is a big help to me playing multiple tracks. The program now shows the Post Time for the race-that is the Post Time for where you are!

[schweitz]

Originally posted by raybo
RE:<I do think that these stats can be used productively though (its just that now DRF prints them too....) >

I would be using the stats strictly as another factor in trying to determine trainer intent for cases where little info, regarding a horse's current physical condition, is available in the data. Sometimes just knowing what the trainer has done in the past will shed some light on what he has in mind with a particular horse. And often, that's the difference between winning and losing a wager. I'm not big on following trainers and jockeys but some decent stats would certainly be helpful.

Raybo,

My I suggest you buy " Handicapping Trainers" by John Whitaker. Since I have started keeping trainer and owner stats on the circuits I play it has helped the old bottom line and sometimes explained "how in the world did that horse win".

[raybo]

RE:<My I suggest you buy " Handicapping Trainers" by John Whitaker. Since I have started keeping trainer and owner stats on the circuits I play it has helped the old bottom line and sometimes explained "how in the world did that horse win".>

I agree that trainer/jockey/owner stats are important, and I definately analyze the stats if I have them available. I am pretty good at "reading between the lines", when there are lines to read. However, with 1st starters and lightly raced horses, and layoffs, etc., this data can be sparse, thus the need for past stats to get an idea about general trends for these guys. I have read several books and articles involving trainer moves and owner/trainer/jockey combinations, etc. and have put many of them in my repertoire of useful handicapping factors.

[schweitz]

One of the things I have done was to write down all the specifics (trainer, owner,track,dist.,surface,1st 2nd 3rd off of a layoff,if claim--from who,etc.). I did this for every race at each of the tracks I play for a year. A lot of work and 95% of it will be worthless---but that other 5% is priceless.

[raybo]

That would certainly work, but I'm a firm believer in not reinventing the wheel when someone else has already done it. If trainer stats are available and are complete enough I would prefer to use them rather than take the time to try to create my own. I realize I would have more control over which stats and what types but I'm sure someone has already thought of every stat I'm likely to want to use.

[schweitz]

Originally posted by raybo
I realize I would have more control over which stats and what types but I'm sure someone has already thought of every stat I'm likely to want to use.

If there out there with what I track I would buy them in a minute but I haven't seen them.

[raybo]

RE:<If there out there with what I track I would buy them in a minute but I haven't seen them.>

I'm not familiar with what all is available out there either, so I can't say for sure that what I want is available, but I would bet that the majority of the stats I'm interested in are available somewhere.

Meanwhile, I think I'll add a few lines to my control file and start importing the trainer stats that come with the "Multicaps" data files. I'm already paying for the files anyway, so it won't cost me anything to find out what's in there.

[JackS]

It seems to me that the best time to profit on trainer stats is early in the meet. A 20% trainer producing mutuals over $10 will eventually be a trainer with an $8 average or less. Just as important as a trainer with a high percentage of wins is knowing when to "get off" and find the inevtable overlays that now exist. A bet aginst such a trainer could be the play of the day or possibly any day. Couple these high percenter's with a winning jock and your once modest and unfair payoff now becomes totally unplayable. One area that has always caught my eye is the trainer that ships in each year with no more than 4-5 horses and then proceeds to win with 2-3 of them. Unfortunatly for me, I seem to catch on after the fact and never before.

[raybo]

What you said may indeed be true. As an exotics player, I'm not overly concerned with overlays and underlays. Of course, having a good priced winner certainly helps the exotic payout. What I am mainly concerned with, regarding trainer intent, is in helping me determine if a horse deserves to be on my ticket or not. Is the horse ready to run today or not. That would be extremely helpful and would undoubtably improve my bottom line. If I know a horse is ready to give a good performance, I have a better than normal chance of cashing my ticket.