Amazing What Betfair Gets Away With

[edmond1]

Betfair offers markets on US Horse Racing. Turf Paradise/Sunland Park/Aqueduct/Parx are some of the tracks they offer.
Millions of dollars get matched on US Horse Racing there every day and they charge commissions on winning bets ranging anywhere from 3 to 5 %.
They have access to the fastest feeds available - not the slow DN feeds that are used in North America. A must for them to manage markets properly since they have no link to the tote. Wouldn't be surprised that they are now managing these markets on US soil.
Normally a legalized betting entity is required to pay a simulcast fee. Not sure the amount but I think in the 4 to 8% range and yet Betfair only charges 3 to 5 % on winning bets ?
Does anyone know what they pay ? Does the US Racing Industry have any idea what is going on here ? If so why is Betfair allowed to......

[Vigorish]

Betfair offers markets on US Horse Racing. Turf Paradise/Sunland Park/Aqueduct/Parx are some of the tracks they offer.
Millions of dollars get matched on US Horse Racing there every day and they charge commissions on winning bets ranging anywhere from 3 to 5 %.
They have access to the fastest feeds available - not the slow DN feeds that are used in North America. A must for them to manage markets properly since they have no link to the tote. Wouldn't be surprised that they are now managing these markets on US soil.
Normally a legalized betting entity is required to pay a simulcast fee. Not sure the amount but I think in the 4 to 8% range and yet Betfair only charges 3 to 5 % on winning bets ?
Does anyone know what they pay ? Does the US Racing Industry have any idea what is going on here ? If so why is Betfair allowed to......

With all due respect, I am confused as to why this a problem? A person betting US tracks from the UK would almost never be interested in paying our bloated takeout rates, especially with the rapid odds changes. They are creating a new market where none previously existed. With exchange wagering, you need lower vigs to make it work. The horsemen in CA were not convinced 4-5% was enough to work in the context of North American racing. They wouldn't even accept 6%. They thought it should be at least a double digit takeout. These rates destroy the viability of exchange wagering.

An interestingly illustration of how high vigorish demolishes peer-to-peer wagering was the 'head-to-head' wager offered at Del Mar and Calder. The former tried it with 10% vigorish (the lowest legally allowable rate in CA) and latter tried it with 18% vigorish. These rates do not include breakage. Not surprisingly, both flopped. The pools at Calder were sometimes under $1000. With only two horses competing, the punitive takeout rates become too obvious.

[Stillriledup]

Sports betting offers an approx 5% takeout on bets, not sure why someone would want to bet horse racing at 15 to 30 pct rake.

[affirmedny]

Sports betting offers an approx 5% takeout on bets, not sure why someone would want to bet horse racing at 15 to 30 pct rake.

There's no 25 to one shots in sports betting.

[cj]

There's no 25 to one shots in sports betting.

Of course there are.

[Stillriledup]

There's no 25 to one shots in sports betting.

There's not?

http://msn.foxsports.com/buzzer/story/man-who-bet-100-to-win-50-000-on-auburn-to-win-national-title-talks-to-the-buzzer-120213

[davew]

I wonder what all the bookies/casinos pay the NFL to use their teams/games/scores?

I wonder what New Jersey is going to allow betfaircasino to offer to New Jersey residents - sports?

I wonder where edmond1 gets his millions matched daily on US horse races number?

TVG is/was owned by them using their station as an endless infomercial about exchange wagering which seemd to do little to sway CA racetracks.

Do they still have an office/base in San Francisco?

[Some_One]

Betfair offers markets on US Horse Racing. Turf Paradise/Sunland Park/Aqueduct/Parx are some of the tracks they offer.
Millions of dollars get matched on US Horse Racing there every day and they charge commissions on winning bets ranging anywhere from 3 to 5 %.
They have access to the fastest feeds available - not the slow DN feeds that are used in North America. A must for them to manage markets properly since they have no link to the tote. Wouldn't be surprised that they are now managing these markets on US soil.
Normally a legalized betting entity is required to pay a simulcast fee. Not sure the amount but I think in the 4 to 8% range and yet Betfair only charges 3 to 5 % on winning bets ?
Does anyone know what they pay ? Does the US Racing Industry have any idea what is going on here ? If so why is Betfair allowed to......

Millions aren't being matched on US racing every day, maybe Aussie racing. Also these small tracks don't have the leverage that CDSN does to keep their tracks off there.

Why can they do this? Just because you run a sporting event, doesn't entitle you to all betting proceeds from it, ask the NFL or NBA.

[TJDave]

http://msn.foxsports.com/buzzer/story/man-who-bet-100-to-win-50-000-on-auburn-to-win-national-title-talks-to-the-buzzer-120213

OK, all you hedge fund experts:

What's the smart play?

[edmond1]

Millions aren't being matched on US racing every day, maybe Aussie racing. Also these small tracks don't have the leverage that CDSN does to keep their tracks off there.


On Tuesday an average of $100K was matched on the Win market alone for each race at Turf Paradise. Multiplied by 10 races plus what was matched on the Place pools..... That means that over 1 million matched on Turf Paradise alone. Plus Sunland Park/Remmington/Mountaineer/Charles Town....

What did these tracks get in return ?

[BIG49010]

You think it is great deal buy the stock - Betfair Group PLC

[wiffleball whizz]

There's no 25 to one shots in sports betting.

If there's a 25/1 shot in sports it's not equal both ways....

Say a 17 point favorite is -1400

You can lay the 1400 for a 100 or.....

You can lay 100 for 950........

Not sure what the takeout is on that but it's not pretty

Always fairer then racing though IMO

[Some_One]

On Tuesday an average of $100K was matched on the Win market alone for each race at Turf Paradise. Multiplied by 10 races plus what was matched on the Place pools..... That means that over 1 million matched on Turf Paradise alone. Plus Sunland Park/Remmington/Mountaineer/Charles Town....

What did these tracks get in return ?

Turf Paradise is one of the strongest winter tracks on Betfair (with Tampa), but their place pools aren't nearly as liquid. You don't see 100k at RP, Sun or CT.

And what do the tracks get, nothing, why do they deserve something?

[cutchemist42]

I guess the difference between the NBA/NFL and horse racing with Betfair is that betting money doesn't drive the sport. With horseracing, the handle drives the sport and that handle is partially existing elsewhere to the track.

Not going to lie but unless I can get good rebates I usually prefer Betfair because of the odds I can get. It's obviously limited to just Win bets though.

[Stillriledup]

I guess the difference between the NBA/NFL and horse racing with Betfair is that betting money doesn't drive the sport. With horseracing, the handle drives the sport and that handle is partially existing elsewhere to the track.

Not going to lie but unless I can get good rebates I usually prefer Betfair because of the odds I can get. It's obviously limited to just Win bets though.

Betting money might not drive the NFL directly, but if human beings were fed a drug that would make them have zero desire to wager or gamble, the league would die as not enough "Fans" would care.

[Stillriledup]

If there's a 25/1 shot in sports it's not equal both ways....

Say a 17 point favorite is -1400

You can lay the 1400 for a 100 or.....

You can lay 100 for 950........

Not sure what the takeout is on that but it's not pretty

Always fairer then racing though IMO

This is one of the things that bugs me about Vegas. For example, if they post a price on the Miami Heat to win the NBA title at 1-1 (hypothetical example, i dont know the price offhand) before the season starts, you should be able to get the "opposite price" on them to lose. They can have their vig, they can make Miami 1-1 to WIN the title, and 5-7 to LOSE the title, that way, if you want to fade their rear ends, you can risk 7 to win 5 on everyone else.

[wiffleball whizz]

This is one of the things that bugs me about Vegas. For example, if they post a price on the Miami Heat to win the NBA title at 1-1 (hypothetical example, i dont know the price offhand) before the season starts, you should be able to get the "opposite price" on them to lose. They can have their vig, they can make Miami 1-1 to WIN the title, and 5-7 to LOSE the title, that way, if you want to fade their rear ends, you can risk 7 to win 5 on everyone else.


I agree.......would love to lay against.....

Like if tiger is 4/1 to win it I'd like to lay 5.5-1 he won't

[Stillriledup]

I agree.......would love to lay against.....

Like if tiger is 4/1 to win it I'd like to lay 5.5-1 he won't

Vegas is scared, they're scared to offer bets. Most of their stuff is for "entertainment purposes only". If they really wanted to bet, they would say no limits on any game, side or league.

[edmond1]

And what do the tracks get, nothing, why do they deserve something?

That's right. Betfair pays nothing and makes all the money. The idiots betting into the pools pay the tracks that are going bankrupt. Makes sense.

[Robert Goren]

That's right. Betfair pays nothing and makes all the money. The idiots betting into the pools pay the tracks that are going bankrupt. Makes sense.And the tracks are over paid at that. You are not going to get any sympathy for race tracks here. Most are so sick of being rip offed by them, it kind nice to see the shoe on the other foot for a change.

[edmond1]

For years Betfair has offered markets on NYRA tracks. Now out of state ADW's will be taxed 5% on NY resident's bets. Betfair with the luxury of fast feeds continues to rake in cash immune from any fees as they operate on your soil as racetracks are closing down one by one ????.....Racing authorities are a bunch of idiots - or maybe some of them are getting paid off ???

[cutchemist42]

Is there a reason though some tracks aren't offered on Betfair?

[DeltaLover]

That's right. Betfair pays nothing and makes all the money. The idiots betting into the pools pay the tracks that are going bankrupt. Makes sense.

Edmond,

it is not that we bet voluntarily into the pools.

We simply have no choice.

If the game was more player's friendly, as it is in more advanced (from a betting perspective) countries, offering us choices like betting with a bookie and fixed odds or a betting exchange, I am pretty sure that most of the idiots you are referring here, would have been converted to smart overnight.

[edmond1]

Is there a reason though some tracks aren't offered on Betfair?

Since Betfair owns TVG they are blackmailed by Twinspires and California tracks. If Betfair offers markets on those tracks they may not allow TVG to carry them. Also Betfair requires some agreement with a track they cover in order to obtain rights for a fast video feed so that market can be managed properly. Why would a US track cater to Betfair and get nothing in return ? A legalized betting entity is normally required to pay a juicy simulcast fee for that privilege.

Twinspires and California tracks are on the ball .....

[edmond1]

Edmond,

it is not that we bet voluntarily into the pools.

We simply have no choice.

If the game was more player's friendly, as it is in more advanced (from a betting perspective) countries, offering us choices like betting with a bookie and fixed odds or a betting exchange, I am pretty sure that most of the idiots you are referring here, would have been converted to smart overnight.

I agree with you. Exchange Betting is great and should be legalized here - have bet on them successfully for years but quit when feeds were changed to DN. Just saying that our racetracks should receive compensation.

[DeltaLover]

I agree with you. Exchange Betting is great and should be legalized here - have bet on them successfully for years but quit when feeds were changed to DN. Just saying that our racetracks should receive compensation.
I could not care less about our tracks not receiving comp from betfair.