Jews in USA Congress

[kenwoodallpromos]

I just found a website that says congress has 37 Jews and no Muslims! The Jews are some of the most liberal of all, including Sanders, Shumer, Frank!

[Dick Schmidt]

So?

Dick

[andicap]

Yes,
let's please go over all the stereotypes about Jews.
You've already nailed the one about all Jews being liberal. (Tell THAT to my Uncle David and my cousin Randy.)

What will he say next,
"Jews have all the money."
"Jews control Hollywood."
"Jews killed Jesus."
"Jews are all cheap."
"Always get a good Jewish lawyer. (or accountant.)" Yes, I know that sound like a complement, but it's still a stereotype.

I"ll just change my handle to "Shylock," I guess and be done with it. Might as well admit it, I only loan money to people at 25% or more.

Now, I'm certain the post was an innocent observation by a right-winger, not meant to be anti-Semitic, but you see, much of the damage done in this world through language is usually
inadvertant. Usually it's done out of ignorance of how dangerous words can be or how the most innoncent sounding sentence can lead people to believe generalizations about a race or religion.

And I bet he didn't even mean to stereotype Jews as liberals, but was just making an observation, like why, "There are a lot of Jews in Congress and most of them are liberal."

Yes, in the past Jews were more likely to be Democrats (so were Roman Catholics, overwhelmingly), but that has changed in the past 20 years.

The problem with statements like that is that others will read it and take it as a generalization, "Jews are liberal." And of course on this board calling someone a liberal is a bigger epithet than calling them a racist. I mean people here love Ann Coulter who termed liberals as "traitors," so most people here believe I am a traitor to my country. That's OK. It's a horse racing board, I can live with it if someone can give me a pointer to improve my ROI.

But when you get into religious stereotypes or using religion to divide people (liberals vs. conservatives and the libs are the traitors) that's where I have to get off.

An overeaction to an innocent note? Perhaps. But you've got to nip these things in the bud.

And I don't even go to Temple that much.

Now many people will proclaim themselves vehemently pro-Israel as proof of their tolerance. But your position on Zionism has nothing to do with how you would feel if your daughter brought home a Jew to marry.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Somebody on this forum brought up that jews have a lot of influence in congress, so since I like to do research I found a website that gave the numbers of various religions in congress. No one said catholics, the most, have a lot of influence so I did not mention them. / I said most, YOU said All! I did not even mention Frank is gay, or Sanders self id's as socialist, or that conservative Spector was a lynchpin in the Warren investigation. I simply put out the numbers. / Who said I am right-wing? My votes are all over the board. I vote all parties, Nader, Perot, Anderson, Carter, Libertarian, Natural law, Green, Camejo, Davis, Arnold, and as a Ca. petition gatherer I circulate all kinds of petitions. I carried the 3 strikes, medical weed, original lotto, more indian slots. I am circulating a Arnold petition and a Rob Reiner one both right now! The Ca. racetrack AND the indian slots/tax petition. I carried the school vouchers and the gay marriage petitions. / I vote mostly Demo or 3rd party, but have voted for Rep CA. congressmen Herberg and Pombo. / My current and ancestral direct line and in-laws have been: Phillipine, Japanese, Italian, Hungarian, German, Russian, French, Scotch, Mulatto, Cherokee, among others. I had 1 ancestor who fought against the USA in the war of 1812. I had lines who held slaves, freed a couple of them, laborers working alongside slaves and blacks; most all religions including jewish Loeffler (Lefler) NJ line; I had Quaker ancestors who were jailed in 3 countries, one Sir Henry Vane was beheaded by Charles I for turning Quaker and refusing any longer to fight. My Mayflower Steven Hopkins was a religious refuge. My Cherokee Sarah T, Davis escaped the removal. My most "conservative" ancestors were St. Vladimir, Charlemange, Archbishop Sandys of Canterbury, and Sir Anthony Ashley-Cooper. I have registered under several parties at different times. // and I have a popsitive ROI because I try to make sure about things before I make my mind up instead of jumping to conclusions or making errant snap judgments!

[kenwoodallpromos]

Sorry, I have no children. And currently have only 1 jewish relative and 1 jewish friend. But 1 do get along great with my gay cousin's rich gay lovers! (of course, their families own racehorses!!) I am friends with a Jewish beauty shop owner (he's not gay, but his crowd is all racehorse owners!) LOL!!

[JustRalph]

I haven't met very many right wing Jews....but maybe they don't come to the meetings?...........come on? A little touchy aren't we.

I guess me being described as "right wing" or "Ultra=conservative" doesn't mean anything Huh? Alec Baldwin calling conservatives knuckle draggers is perfectly ok on the late night shows etc. Last week a sports writer got in trouble for saying a basketball team didn't have enough black players to win. Now that was funny.........but maybe true.....nope.....the white guys won the game. It is funny how we hang labels on people, but I don't think you have to be sensitive about it. Especially when it does no real harm.

I have been accused of being a religious zealot, because of statements I have made on Morals. But truthfully I am an atheist or maybe more accurately agnostic. But I don't get hung up on labels. I get nothing what so-ever from a day to day form of worship. But I guess my beliefs are grounded in what might be considered original Religious values. But I can't stand Falwell and that crowd, or Pat Robertson. But I get lumped in there every once in a while. My point really is, that I don't think Ken was going after anyone. Sometimes we might see something here that is kind of hard to decipher without personal interaction.

I was wondering about one thing Andy.......this line :
An overeaction to an innocent note? Perhaps. But you've got to nip these things in the bud

Really? What did you think was going to happen if you didn't jump in here and "Nip this in the bud" ? I think you tread too closely to Barneyfifedom with that statement. If I were in your shoes I might have let the thread develop a little before I jumped in. It may have been interesting to see what would have happen had you not nipped it in the bud. I find it kind of odd that I see people posting about their friends and such, and their Religions. I don't think I know what Religion most of my friends are. Maybe that is odd.......but it doesn't seem to matter to me.

I agree with your characterization of yourself......"an overeaction" You rarely respond to notes I post, I don't expect it now.........but I was following the thread that Ken mentioned about the makeup of Congress and I didn't sense any animosity toward one group or another. But it was informative in some ways.

BTW, Ken...you must have some serious Geneologists in your clan.....whew! If you go back far enough I can find some ancestors that once owned part of Manhattan, and sold it for around 25 cents an acre so they could move to Kentucky......you know what they say..... "Location, Location, Location"

[Dan]

Originally posted by kenwoodallpromos
I just found a website that says congress has 37 Jews and no Muslims! The Jews are some of the most liberal of all, including Sanders, Shumer, Frank!

Isn't it hard typing wearing a sheet?

BL

[JustRalph]

Originally posted by buddy_love
Isn't it hard typing wearing a sheet?BL

Not if you make the eye holes big enough.............that's a joke boy! You get it Don't cha? Ha aha ... a chicken hawk that is what you are......ha.......

[Amazin]

kenwoodallpromos said "Somebody on this forum brought up that jews have a lot of influence in congress,"

How about Jewish influence in the Whitehouse? How much influence do Jews have in our middle east foreign policy. Let's take a look at the Jews in the Bush Administration:

Jews in the Bush administration:

Paul Dundes Wolfowitz - Deputy Secretary, Department of Defense

• Richard Perle - Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Policy.

• Ari Fleischer - White House Press Secretary

• Josh Bolten - Deputy Chief of Staff

• Ken Melman - White House Political Director

• Jay Lefkowitz - Deputy Assistant to the President and Director of the Domestic Policy Council

• Daniel Fried - Special Assistant to President and Senior Director for Europeen and Eurasian Affairs

• David Frum - Speechwriter

• Brad Blakeman - White House Director of Scheduling

• Dov Zakheim - Undersecretary of Defense (Controller)

• I. Lewis Libby - Chief of Staff to the Vice President

• Adam Goldman - White House Liaison to the Jewish Community

• Chris Gersten - Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary, Administration for Children and Families at HHS

• Elliott Abrams - now Director of the National Security Council's Office for Near East affairs (!!!). The appointment is viewed as "a gift from heaven" for 'Israel.'

• Mark D. Weinberg - Assistant Secretary of Housing and Urban Development for Public Affairs

• Douglas Feith - Under Secretary of Defense for Policy

• Michael Chertoff - Head of the Justice Department's criminal division

• Daniel Kurtzer - Ambassador to Israel ( !!! )

• Cliff Sobel - Ambassador to the Netherlands

• Stuart Bernstein - Ambassador to Denmark

• Nancy Brinker - Ambassador to Hungary

• Frank Lavin - Ambassador to Singapore

• Ron Weiser - Ambassador to Slovakia

• Mel Sembler - Ambassador to Italy

• Martin Silverstein - Ambassador to Uruguay


I may have missed a few,but chew on that for awhile.

[Amazin]

Let's see

Wolfowitz is the number two leader within the administration behind this Iraq war mongering.He reportedly has close ties to the Israeli military and his sister lives in Israel.

Perle was expelled from Senator Henry Jackson's office in the 1970's after the National Security Agency (NSA) caught him passing Highly-Classified (National Security) documents to the Israeli Embassy. He later worked for the Israeli weapons firm, Soltam.

Feith is a pro-Israel extremist, who has advocated anti-Arab policies in the past. He is closely associated with the extremist group, the Zionist Organization of America, which even attacks Jews that don't agree with its extremist views. Feith frequently speaks at ZOA conferences. Feith runs a small law firm, Feith and Zell, which only has one International office, in Israel.

Zakheim is an ordained rabbi and reportedly holds Israeli citizenship.

Libby is the chief of staff, pro-Israel Jewish advisor to Cheney. Libby is a longtime associate of Wolfowitz. It helps explains why Cheney was so gun-ho to invade Iraq.

I could go on......BTW.Israel has wmd's.Over 400 nuclear warheads,last time I counted. Sharon is a documented war crimes/butcher on the same level as Saddam.Why isn't Israel being disarmed,like Iraq. Can you say "A Jewish influence in America".DUH! So all you who justify the war in Iraq can consider yourselves duped suckers and hypocrites ,as you will continue to be. And I suppose the Muslim world should not be offended.Yeah! keep telling yourselves that.

[PaceAdvantage]

Last time I checked, Israel is quite a close ally of the United States. Why shouldn't they have all the protection we are willing to sell them and/or they are capable of developing? If you are our ally, we take care of you. It's how the world has worked for thousands of years.

Since when do we go and disarm our allies? Should we go after England next?

[kenwoodallpromos]

Those Woodalls in Nc are my relatives! I'm not as bad as that comedian on tv last night who hates "tall midgets!" LOL!! / 1840 in Westport, Essex Co, NY near Elba, where John Brown allowed blacks to live and farm, my 4th greatgrandfather Isaac Stevenson was convicted of "beating, stomping, kicking" Thomas Locke, whose uncle started the KKK in Colorado! I also have a Roberts relative in Iowa who was a conductor for the Underground Railroad. / Amazin- I doubt our ambassador to Uruguay is in position to hurt the USA too badly!LOL!!

[Dan]

Down here in NC I'm considered a yankee even though I'm originally from West Texas. Figure that one out.

But they consider my wife a Southerner even though she is from California. That's because she is from Southern California.

;)

[wolsons]

my head is starting to hurt....

[Dan]

Originally posted by wolsons
my head is starting to hurt....

That one of the reasons why we want out of here. Is there any sanity anywhere?

:)

[wolsons]

the Software and Library sections are usually fairly safe, but, as they say, "past results may not be indicative of future performance..."!

:D

[Dan]

Originally posted by wolsons
the Software and Library sections are usually fairly safe, but, as they say, "past results may not be indicative of future performance..."!

:D


On my last one I meant out of NC.

:)

[schweitz]

Originally posted by andicap


The problem with statements like that is that others will read it and take it as a generalization, "Jews are liberal." And of course on this board calling someone a liberal is a bigger epithet than calling them a racist. I mean people here love Ann Coulter who termed liberals as "traitors," so most people here believe I am a traitor to my country.

Andicap:

Racism is not divided by party lines---How is that Amazin's posts have not offended your sensibilities?

[wolsons]

I thought you were referring to 'Off Topics'!

(sorry about the exclamation point - that copyright belongs to Ken)

[Amazin]

PA asked:Since when do we go and disarm our allies

I was corrolating the similarities for the basis of regime change in Iraq to Israel.The arguments to invade Iraq were:

a)WMD's:

Iraq: None
Israel:Over 400

b) A murderous/corrupt person in charge of the government.

Saddam:Yes
Sharon:Yes

What's the difference?

Connections?:Yes
Morality?:No

But morality is cleverly caveated as the difference.

This is why people like me don't buy a word of why we are in Iraq. This government will condemn a country to high heaven on points a and b and will defend another country to high heaven despite points a and b. I can't believe that 50% of the American population is so stupid,they can't see the hypocracy.

But FYI,we in Iraq for control of the region's resources.Period. I believe Suff is there right now helping fufill that purpose.

[Amazin]

Re: Israel Pa states:"Why shouldn't they have all the protection we are willing to sell them and/or they are capable of developing?

So pro Palestinians say"Why shouldn't palestinians have the right to defend themselves from an occupying force"

I'm sure Iraqi insurgents use the same argument. I don't understand why the aggressors allways feel that they have exclusive rights to defend themselves and the victims(I.E.Palestinians or Iraqi's),don't.

[PaceAdvantage]

The Palestinians have every right to defend themselves. Unfortunately, their ability is severely lacking.

Like I say, why don't some of the other wealthy oil-rich Arab nations send the Palestinians some $$$ or send them some weapons to fight back? Surely the big bad USA hasn't conquered every Arab nation already and stolen all their oil, have we? Aren't there any wealthy and sympathetic nations out there willing to arm the Palestinians in their cause?

When the USA puts its heart and muscle behind a nation, we go in there and arm the good guys, and teach them how to fight (except when we screwed up and helped out Saddam and Osama back in the 70s and 80s) How come the Arab nations don't band together and pull a "USA" and help out the Palestinians??

I've posed this question before, but you keep ignoring me.

[PaceAdvantage]

Against my better judgement, I've left this topic open....my finger is dangling dangerously close to the CLOSE THREAD button....

[Tom]

Amazin, you little bigot, you. :D

Israel is on the same order as Iraq?
Good one. Your delusions are actually getting funny.
Oh, btw...how many Israelies did Sharon gas to death? I keep forgetting.

[Amazin]

Pa asked" why don't some of the other wealthy oil-rich Arab nations send the Palestinians some $$$ or send them some weapons to fight back?

Actually ,Arab states do support Palestinians. Neighboring countries have absorbed a large amount of Palestinian refugees.Financial donations have been paid by various Arab states to Palestinians.Weapons shipments are frequently intercepted by Israel.Even Saddam supported Palestinian families by giving the families of suicide bombers $25,000 after self destruction. But Palestinian support in millions of dollars by Arab states is offset by the billions of dollars Israel gets in U.S. aide to keep Palestinians subjugated. Now if the Palestinians recieved Billions of dollars and the Israeli's recieved only millions of dollars,I'd say we would have a power shift.That's not going to happen.However, just like in baseball,sometimes,it's the team with the heart that beats the team with the money.

[Derek2U]

i just cannot beleive that its 2004 & most of these political &
environmental issues are still here. why cant every1 have a slice of the pie? Having solved it all I gotta go sleep. stay happy guys.

[ljb]

From Buddy Love
"Down here in NC I'm considered a yankee even though I'm originally from West Texas. Figure that one out.'
I met a lady at a flea market recently. After listening to her talk I said. You must be from the south. She jumped right back at me. NO I'm not from the south I'm from Dallas.
Go figure?

[andicap]

Originally posted by schweitz
Andicap:

Racism is not divided by party lines---How is that Amazin's posts have not offended your sensibilities?

Big difference between being anti-Israel (anti Zionist) and anti-Semitic.
If you're anti-Zionist, you're not necessarily anti-Semitic. If fact some of the biggest Christian fundamentalist supporters of Israel are the ones who dislike Jews the most. Has to do with Biblical prophacies and such.
Now before anyone reacts, I said "some."

[schweitz]

Originally posted by andicap
Big difference between being anti-Israel (anti Zionist) and anti-Semitic.
If you're anti-Zionist, you're not necessarily anti-Semitic. If fact some of the biggest Christian fundamentalist supporters of Israel are the ones who dislike Jews the most. Has to do with Biblical prophacies and such.
Now before anyone reacts, I said "some."

So you have no problem with Amazin's posts?

[cj]

Originally posted by andicap
...Now before anyone reacts, I said "some."

You could say SOME of any group is or does anything, so why bother?

[JustMissed]

Originally posted by andicap
Big difference between being anti-Israel (anti Zionist) and anti-Semitic.
If you're anti-Zionist, you're not necessarily anti-Semitic. If fact some of the biggest Christian fundamentalist supporters of Israel are the ones who dislike Jews the most. Has to do with Biblical prophacies and such.
Now before anyone reacts, I said "some."

WOULD YOU CARE TO NAME THE NAMES OF THOSE BIGGEST CHRISTIAN FUNDAMENTALIST THAT DISLIKE JEWS?

MORE SPECIFICALLY, WOULD YOU POST THE EXACT STATMENTS, COMMENTS, SOUNDBITES, ETC.(WITH DATES AND PLACES) WHICH GIVE YOU SUPPORT FOR YOUR ACCUSATION.

NOW, I'M CERTAIN YOUR POST WAS AN INNOCENT OBSERVATION BY A LEFT-WINGER, NOT MEANT TO BE ANTI-CHRISTIAN, BUT YOU SEE, MUCH OF THE DAMAGE DONE IN THIS WORLD THROUGH LANGUAGE IS USUALLY INADVERTANT.

THE MOST INNOCENT SOUNDING SENTENCE CAN LEAD PEOPLE TO BELIEVE GENERALIZATIONS ABOUT A RACE OR RELIGION.

I AWAIT YOUR RECITATION.

JUSTMISSED

[kenwoodallpromos]

"Some" pentecostals claim to love everybody including Jews but tell them they are going to hell so they have to believe in Jesus Christ as Savior, and hate that the devil is oppressing them! I never really did understood that...

[Amazin]

schweitz asked Andy:"So you have no problem with Amazin's posts?"

Schweitz:

I suppose you think anyone who criticizes Israel is anti-sematic,just like people like lefty think that those who criticize America are un-American.

FYI I judge people on whether they are honest with themselves and aware of the brotherhood of man,rather than what nationality they are. I'm not as shallow as you so you may not understand.Do yourself a favor and grow up.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally posted by Amazin
Actually ,Arab states do support Palestinians. Neighboring countries have absorbed a large amount of Palestinian refugees.Financial donations have been paid by various Arab states to Palestinians.Weapons shipments are frequently intercepted by Israel.

Come on. We're talking BIG OIL $$$ here. You mean to tell me that if the "supporters" of the Palestinian cause were SERIOUS, they couldn't give this rather SMALL group of people enough money to arm every man, woman and child to the hilt??

You say weapons shipments are frequently intercepted by Israel. What about the ones that aren't? How come they are still throwing rocks at Israeli soldiers?

I think you might be overestimating the support Palestinians get (other than VERBAL support) from their wealthy Arab neighbors.

Hell, Dubai can doll out $10,000,000 for a day of THOROUGHBRED RACING. That's a DROP IN THE BUCKET for those guys. And they are just one of many oil-rich nations in the area.

What's the real reason they haven't all banded together to fight back?

[schweitz]

Originally posted by Amazin
schweitz asked Andy:"So you have no problem with Amazin's posts?"

Schweitz:

I suppose you think anyone who criticizes Israel is anti-sematic,just like people like lefty think that those who criticize America are un-American.

FYI I judge people on whether they are honest with themselves and aware of the brotherhood of man,rather than what nationality they are. I'm not as shallow as you so you may not understand.Do yourself a favor and grow up.


Your posts tell me who you and what you are.

[JustRalph]

Those guys wipe their proverbial asses with hundred dollar bills and I think there are other reasons they don't throw any toilet paper at the Palestinians

[Larry Hamilton]

The last time I read anything this shallow was hearing Miss Universe going to stamp out world hunger:

FYI I judge people on whether they are honest with themselves and aware of the brotherhood of man,rather than what nationality they are. I'm not as shallow as you so you may not understand.Do yourself a favor and grow up.

I think our little boil is not old enough to vote. It would explain the lack of depth to his comments. If you guys want to have a meaningful discussion with this guy, talk about Janet Jackson breast or Britany Spears navel or what kind of shorts Clinton wears. As has been said many times, all we can do is ignore him until PA bans him.

[TRM]

ljb,

Was she blonde??

:D

[Amazin]

Pa states:"I think you might be overestimating the support Palestinians get (other than VERBAL support) from their wealthy Arab neighbors.....Hell, Dubai can doll out $10,000,000 for a day of THOROUGHBRED RACING."

You picked the wrong country to target as a cheapskate to Palestinian support. Dubai is probably the most generous.Dubai has donated millions to palestinians in aid - medicine, food and other basic needs - through various charitable organizations.Money is also raised for palestinians on Dubai TV thru Telethons..Arab businessmen pledge support thru one of their various charitable organizations.Dubai also sends money directly to several thousand Palestinian familiesThe UAE Red Crescent Society (RCS) has earned a worldwide reputation for its humanitarian initiatives.They have responded to various refugees such as Palestinians,Afghan,Pakistani,Iran, Tajikstan,Uzbekistan,Macedonia ,Kosovo etc.Other noteworthy support includes the $50 million Zayed City Project in Gaza, whose foundation was laid by Minister of Information and Culture, Sheikh Abdullah bin Zayed Al Nahyan, in November 2000. The project involves the construction of 750 3-bedroom housing units, with an associated hospital, schools and gardens. Other aid projects in Palestine administered by the Fund have included the Zayed Hospital in Ramallah, which opened in March 2001.

And I believe your figure on how much the Dubai brothers spend a day on horseracing is incorrect.

[Tom]

The whole world is festering
with unhappy souls.
The French hate the Germans
The Germans hate the Poles.
TheTurks hate the Yugoslavs,
South Africans hate the Dutch,
And I don't like anybody very much!

(Can't remeber the groups name, but they also did The MTA. Tom Dooley, old 60's folk group)
:mad:

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally posted by Amazin
You picked the wrong country to target as a cheapskate to Palestinian support. Dubai is probably the most generous.Dubai has donated millions to palestinians in aid - medicine, food and other basic needs - through various charitable organizations.Money is also raised for palestinians on Dubai TV thru Telethons..Arab businessmen pledge support thru one of their various charitable organizations.Dubai also sends money directly to several thousand Palestinian familiesThe UAE Red Crescent Society (RCS) has earned a worldwide reputation for its humanitarian initiatives.They have responded to various refugees such as Palestinians,Afghan,Pakistani,Iran, Tajikstan,Uzbekistan,Macedonia ,Kosovo etc.Other noteworthy support includes the $50 million Zayed City Project in Gaza, whose foundation was laid by Minister of Information and Culture, Sheikh Abdullah bin Zayed Al Nahyan, in November 2000. The project involves the construction of 750 3-bedroom housing units, with an associated hospital, schools and gardens. Other aid projects in Palestine administered by the Fund have included the Zayed Hospital in Ramallah, which opened in March 2001.

OK. Is it working? Obviously not.


And I believe your figure on how much the Dubai brothers spend a day on horseracing is incorrect.

What was the total purse money on Dubai Day? 6mil for the big race, and a couple of other races at 2mil and 1mil a piece. It was close to 10mil correct? Sorry if I was off by a million or two....

[kenwoodallpromos]

It was "The Merry Minuet" group The Kingston Trio, coming to Chautaugua Institute w/ The Smothers Brothers soon! I do not think they sing about the Topic, jews in Congress, or the song "Ahab the Arab". They do "When the Saints Go Marching In" so they may not be a Muslim extremist favorite!

[Amazin]

Pa said " OK. Is it working? Obviously not."

Is what working?Support? That allways works on one level or another.

PA:What was the total purse money on Dubai Day? 6mil for the big race, and a couple of other races at 2mil and 1mil a piece. It was close to 10mil correct? Sorry if I was off by a million or two....

Re: Dubai Horseracing. I thought you were saying they spend 10 mil a day. But I see you mean in one special day which is true. But as I have pointed out in my last post,they spend much more for Palestinian and other humanitarian support as opposed to horseracing investments,which is contrary to what most bigoted American horseplayers would like to believe.

The average knowledge of Americans about middle eastern affairs is close to nil.Their main source of information is movies,myths and hearsay. If there is any good that came out of Osama,it's that some American's are now begining to want to understand Middle Eastern politics,history,culture and religion beyond the inaccurate stereotypes this country has produced . This is similar to what happened with other racial profiles in this country. But it allways seem to require a violent act(s) to start the awareness.

[cj]

Originally posted by Amazin
... The average knowledge of Americans about middle eastern affairs is close to nil.

In contrast, the average "Amazin's" knowledge of American affairs is even less...simply amazing!

[andicap]

The Constitution of the United States, for instance, is a marvelous document for self-government by the Christian people. But the minute you turn the document into the hands of non-Christian people and atheistic people they can use it to destroy the very foundation of our society. And that's what's been happening." -- Pat Robertson, The 700 Club, Dec. 30, 1981

http://www.sullivan-county.com/news/rel_war/falwell_jews.htm

http://www.rickross.com/reference/fundamentalists/fund81.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A10067-2002Oct10?language=printer

http://www.messiahtruth.com/singer_cancelled.html

http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m1141/43_38/93084876/p5/article.jhtml?term=

[Larry Hamilton]

Two true stories to tell you all you need to know about the Muslim psyche:

I spent a year in Turkey in the late 70's babysitting WMD. We were a very small detachment of all Americans, surrounded and protected by the Turks. Each night the Turks performed guard duty around our smalled fenced in area. The Turk commander, a Major, would walk the line every night with the American Commander, also a Major. The occupants, us, were all christians, the guards were all muslims.

Incident #1 -- Turk guard asleep at the post. Turk commander removes pistol from holster and offers it to American commander and says, "Do you want to shoot him, or shall I?" The guarn was never seen again.

Incident #2 -- One lap around the perimenter, one guard was found armed, weapon loaded and facing inwards. Turk commander asks, "why are you facing inwards instead of outwards," Young Turkish soldier says, "They are christians, aren't they?"

Are these isolated incidents with no basis in truth with respect to the whole population--damned if I know, it is what I know to be true in my experience. What I get from this is that judeo- christians will never understand nor accept the "normal" psyche of the muslim, but if they blow up my buildings or threaten my country in any way, I dont give a shit why, ACT forcefully and immediately and damned their supporters too.

[cj]

Andi,

Most Christians, despite your postings of articles about extremists like Falwell and Robertson, hold no ill will towards Hebrews.

What is the point of posting those articles? We all know some Christians harbor ill will towards Jewish people. I'm sure if I search the internet long enough, I can find some anti-Christian articles that express the views of some Jewish people. If you think people like those mentioned in your article are leaders for most Christians, you are sadly mistaken. This whole thread started out about how bad sterotyping is, but then you try to do the same thing by posting links. Are these your views? If they are, fine, we all have our own opinion. But say it at least. Otherwise, I ask again, what's the point?

[andicap]

Of course most Christians hold no ill will toward Jews. And vice versa.
My point was I was challenged to find evidence that extreme Christian fundamentalists (SOME as I said in my initial post, not all) are anti-Semitic. That's all.
Jimmy Carter was a born-again Christian, and one of my favorite people (OK, a lousy president, but a great post-president).

Basically I believe there is much more anti-Semitism in this country than people believe. Not that it's widespread. No, no. But I've seen it in my home county right here north of NYC -- swastikas put up on garages and the word "kike" and "Hebe" thrown around.
Again, not saying these are necessarily fundamentalists -- they are all religions but in my travels throughout the country I've found more of that feeling among fundamentalists than other groups.

BTW, I distrust fundamentalists of ALL religions, including Judiaism.

I've even seen what I would call fundamental Unitarians -- people who were so smug, so politically correct that it was smothering. You would be afraid to have a discussion with them for fear of being branded a racist or anti-woman or whatever. Now I have nothing against Unitarians -- these are just the extremists in the minority who felt they were above those they felt were not PC enough. No damn sense of humor.

My point is I am skeptical of anything that smacks of rigidity in thought, of dogmatism whether it's about the Bible, the Constitution or the Daily Racing Form.

Even in my wildest anti-war (Vietnam) days of my youth, I never liked the SDS or any of those groups on the Far Left.

[karlskorner]

Vu ken ikh gefinen OTB

[Lance]

CJMilkowski wrote:

"I loath chalk!"

Don't you need an "e" here?

[Tom]

You mean he loaths chalke? :D

[JustMissed]

Originally posted by Lance
CJMilkowski wrote:

"I loath chalk!"

Don't you need an "e" here?

[kenwoodallpromos]

So are you saying you lean toward being a relativist or a pragmatist? I agree blanket labels are shortsighted- My Woodall grandparents were Unitarians but never egotistical or PC.

[hurrikane]

Kenwoodallpromos said

Sorry, I have no children.

hmm..the only positive thing to come out of a really stupid thread.

[so.cal.fan]

<My point is I am skeptical of anything that smacks of rigidity in thought, of dogmatism whether it's about the Bible, the Constitution or the Daily Racing Form.>

Great comment andicap!

Guess what? History seems to always prove your point.

[Larry Hamilton]

This is exactly where the line was drawn in the 60's--be skeptical about everything. It is still true today. Accepting nothing is itself an impossible dogma.

The word "everything" in the statement "be skeptical about everything" needs only one exception to be untrue. I am sure you can find one exception. So, you really meant to say was be skeptical about control (dogma) of your life imposed by religion and law.

Accepting no dogma at all about these most important facets of our lives is to invite chaos. I am certain that a million essays outlining the alternatives will do no good, so, I will just say, andicap, I disagree--there are some things that must be accepted as is.

[JustMissed]

Thanks for the newpaper references identifying those evil jew-hating fundalmentalist Christians. You identified two of them, Falwell and Robertson, now maybe we can ferret out the rest of the evil doers.

I've always looked to the Bristol(Tennessee)Herald Courier for the best in news reporting. Some people like the New York Times, but for me, you can't beat the Courier for the most accurate reporting.

Can you believe that Rabbi Rudin:

"Rabbi James Rudin, the director of inter-religious affairs for the American Jewish Committee in New York, said the comment surprised him because he knows Falwell is a strong supporter of Israel and is not anti-Jewish. "

What's with the rabbi? He should be reported to the ADL.

Anyway, you did an excellant job with your research and finding printed statements by those two evil jew-hating fundamental Christians. Hey, who would think of looking at a small town East Tennessee newpaper.

Hey, maybe you should give up horseplaying and consider a career as a journalist? You know some of those California, especially Hollywood,news outlets pay big bucks.


Hey, you're so good with research, maybe you could check out a couple of more things:

1. Who killed Jesus and why?

2. Was the Bible written from a Jewish perpective?

See ya down the line.

JustMissed

[Lance]

JustMissed wrote:

"1. Who killed Jesus and why?"

Good God almighty. Nice work, Mel.

[Tom]

Uh, the whole idea was that Jesus came here to be killed.
Those who did it cannot be blammed....they only did what was epxected of them by Jesus Himself.
Had NO ONE killed Jesus, it would have been the end of mankind.
So, whoever it was, they, in fact, saved our sould and we owqe them, literally, our lives.

[PaceAdvantage]

Well Tom, I have to say that was a fantastic response.....

[PaceAdvantage]

Gonna close this thread real soon (veered so far off topic and it is a dicey topic at that)...so get in your remarks while you still can.

[Pace Cap'n]

Originally posted by Lance
CJMilkowski wrote:

"I loath chalk!"

Don't you need an "e" here?

No.

[JustMissed]

Tom, you might want to go over to the Gnostic Society Library at http://www.gnosis.org/library.html.

Pretty neat stuff especially the Nag Hammadi material.

I have always found the history of the early Christian religion to be interesting. Very interesting how the Catholic Church(Rome) wrestled Christianity, with the help of the Jews, away from the disciples of Jesus and their followers.

What is so upsetting to me is to think they destroyed so many of the early writtings or perhaps even have some hid in the basement of Vatican.

Not to just pick on Catholics, remember all our protestant religions are offshoots of the Catholic Church.

Anyway, it has always been helpful for me to remember that people and organizations' principle motive is to have as much Power and Control as they can get. Whether it is the Pope, the Rabbi, the Mullah or Jerry Falwell, they all want the same thing, Power, and if they have to distort or destroy Jesus's original message to mankind to get it, so be it.

Maybe when Mel added the illusion of the devil to his movie, maybe he got it just about right.

Hope you enjoy the material.

JustMissed