Triple Crown Failures

[RacingFan1992]

There have been a lot of Triple Crown failures. I just want to know what people think was the horse that they thought would win the Triple Crown.

Please note that a Triple Crown failure is considered a horse who won the Kentucky Derby and Preakness Stakes but lost the Belmont Stakes.

[tanner12oz]

First race I ever bet was smarty Jones Belmont so that holds a special spot. The I'll have another run was hugely disappointing because we never even got to see the attempt

[RacingFan1992]

I love Mrs. Whitney's response when Birdstone won the Belmont Stakes. She was so apologetic. Most owners say "Oh well, sorry there is always next year." but she seemed like she wished she had never entered because she upset so many people and I know some people who wished she never did.

[tanner12oz]

I love Mrs. Whitney's response when Birdstone won the Belmont Stakes. She was so apologetic. Most owners say "Oh well, sorry there is always next year." but she seemed like she wished she had never entered because she upset so many people and I know some people who wished she never did.

birdstone is my favorite spoiler da Tara the worst in recent memory

[RacingFan1992]

Just a note of edit. Forward Pass was 1968 and not 1969 who was really Majestic Prince.

[nijinski]

Wanted every contender to win . On this list I got to follow from
the Bid on . When they come that far , whether I was always their
fan or not . I still wanted to experience another Seattle Slew or
Affirmed . Those days stay with you and you want to see it again !

[RacingFan1992]

There are two traditions that occur in the Triple Crown. Winning the Triple Crown and NOT winning the Triple Crown. I just hope they don't shorten the distance, lengthen the time period or up the age limit of the races. A three year old thoroughbred winning the 1 1/4 mile Kentucky Derby at Churchill Downs, the 1 3/16 mile Preakness Stakes at Pimlico Race Course two weeks later and the 1 1/2 mile Belmont Stakes at Belmont Park three weeks after that all the while of having the stress of shipping and facing fresh horses is one remarkable athlete.

[nijinski]

There are two traditions that occur in the Triple Crown. Winning the Triple Crown and NOT winning the Triple Crown. I just hope they don't shorten the distance, lengthen the time period or up the age limit of the races. A three year old thoroughbred winning the 1 1/4 mile Kentucky Derby at Churchill Downs, the 1 3/16 mile Preakness Stakes at Pimlico Race Course two weeks later and the 1 1/2 mile Belmont Stakes at Belmont Park three weeks after that all the while of having the stress of shipping and facing fresh horses is one remarkable athlete.

Somehow they need to bring back the stamina . We have grown accustomed to speed and they are all falling apart .

[RacingFan1992]

I think they should have a stayers championship.. The shortest race will be 1 1/4 mile while the longest race will be 2 miles and they can have large purses per race. I think that would bring back stamina to track because people will want to go for those races.

[SharpCat]

Somehow they need to bring back the stamina . We have grown accustomed to speed and they are all falling apart .


Agreed. I don't like the sales where they try to work super fast 1/8th mile or 1/4 qtr mile times.

[nijinski]

Agreed. I don't like the sales where they try to work super fast 1/8th mile or 1/4 qtr mile times.

Reducing those super speedy works prior to sales has been written into
regulatory summit reports for years now .I know I've read one from Keenland.
Hopefully they are following , but I really don't know .

[PaceAdvantage]

Wow, can't believe I'm the first one to vote for Sunday Silence.

IMO, he was the most worthy one of "my time" (and "my time" starts around 1987).

My second choice would be a tossup between Alysheba and Smarty Jones.

If I was considering everyone on this poll, and not just the horses I've seen in "my time," I suppose Spectacular Bid would get my vote too...

[v j stauffer]

I chose Funny Side. He came through Florida when I was there. The story of his owners was a great one.

[Stillriledup]

Most times i'm betting against the chalk in the Belmont, especially if the horse is a triple crown hopeful, because they're always overbet...so, i'm not rooting for any of them, i'm rooting for my bet to win.

Betting aside, i would say that that Funny Cide was probably the only one i wouldnt have minded him winning as he had humans (owner, trainer and jock) that were worth rooting for. Cant say the same about too many others in recent times.

[PhantomOnTour]

Was alive to a very big pick 3 or pick 4 (cant remember) in the 2004 Belmont with two horses on my ticket; neither of them was Smarty Jones :ThmbUp:
Or Birdstone :ThmbDown:

[iceknight]

I have seen almost all these races (except I'll Have Another's) only on replays and several years later. Real Quiet was the one that was closest in my opinion.

I also have a special spot for Point Given and Afleet Alex (although they both messed up their Derby)

[Some_One]

I also have a special spot for Point Given and Afleet Alex (although they both messed up their Derby)

Agree here too, especially from those over the last 15 years, they were the best of the misses IMO

[Tee]

I'll Have Another

[TheEdge07]

After watching hes dominating win in the Belmont i wish Eddie D wouldve given Risen Star a beteer ride in the derby..

[Johnny V]

I went with Smarty Jones. I really thought he was going to do it and was disappointed in that Belmont. Silver Charm was my runner up on this poll. He faced some very stiff competition form Free House and others and that was a good Triple Crown series IMO. There are some very worthy horses on this poll that could have won the TC.

I agree with nijinsky that the thoroughbred has to be bred for stamina is the solution and not in any way reducing the distance of the TC races which would diminish the accomplishment in the eyes of many. Hey, I say bring back the JGC to the 2 mile distance.

[burnsy]

Funny Cide, at the time i lived around the corner from where he was bred on Saratoga Lake. It was huge for a NYB to even win what he did, the triple crown would of been awesome. However, the best horses usually get cheated in that first round. The derby is such a crap shoot and bumper car race, Afleet Alex was probably the best horse to come through in a long time. He crushed when he was 2 then again at 3....most can't do that anymore. His Hopeful win was one of the best races i ever saw a horse run and he was 2 yo. Birdstone and D'Tara led to the biggest pic tickets i've ever cashed.....i liked Birdstone, he was an overlay, many locals up here had him, the horse could grind all day. D' Tara was an "all" ticket....it was 100 degrees at Belmont that day, the generation stunk and Big Brown was some what of a farce....had to take a shot and it was a good one.....could not of liked D'Tara in a million years. Didn't even know who the horse was when it crossed the wire first but i knew it was the "bomb". About 90,000 headed to the exit...you could hear a pin drop moments after Big Brown came staggering across the line. I'm beginning to think the thing (triple crown) is cursed and these horses today just can't handle the rigors of it.

[jballscalls]

I remember a gal I was dating a couple years ago asked me "have you ever had your heart broken?"

I replied "Yes, yes I have. When Smarty Jones lost the Belmont"

We stopped dating shortly afterwards.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Two votes for Big Brown? Two more than I expected - must have involved a wager.

[RXB]

Spectacular Bid because he was undoubtedly the best horse of all of them. But I don't really care that much because I don't see why a horse's early-season 3YO form should be the primary measure of its ability/worth.

[CincyHorseplayer]

Perhaps it was because it was only a year after I had gotten into the game but I thought Silver Charm was really a tough,gritty,colt.That hurt seeing him lose the Belmont.The others I was obviously rooting for but felt nothing.

I am surprised how many votes Spectacular Bid is getting,on the heels of 3 TC winners.I never saw the horse though either.Could definitely listen to some more tales about him!

[nijinski]

Luis Barrera brought back Summing , with little time off . Insiders were
in awe of his workout prior to the Belmont , though some said it was
too fast for a mile in the slop . Martens we're told was very confident after
the work .
Poor Pleasant Colony was not a happy looking camper , nervous and sweaty before the race .
I really liked that somewhat awkward looking horse . He still hit the board!
In a rare moment , Johnny Campo admitted he couldn't skip the Belmont but he knew PC was a tired horse that day .

Luis Barrera's quote of the day " I beat the Fat Man " .
Great times on the East Coast , these guys worked the sport . 1981 Belmont .

[jballscalls]

Two votes for Big Brown? Two more than I expected - must have involved a wager.

It's hard to separate the horse from the connections isn't it? I noticed that I tend to like certain horses much more if I like the connections and less so if I don't. I mean, I'm sure Big Brown was a pretty cool likeable horse himself :)

[classhandicapper]

IMO Spectacular Bid, Sunday Silence and Smarty Jones were clearly worthy.

[rastajenk]

Point Given, too.

[TJDave]

I understand the logic behind horses winning the first two however I think you should have included Native Dancer. Much the best of any mentioned here. I voted for his grandson.

[dilanesp]

I love Mrs. Whitney's response when Birdstone won the Belmont Stakes. She was so apologetic. Most owners say "Oh well, sorry there is always next year." but she seemed like she wished she had never entered because she upset so many people and I know some people who wished she never did.

I hated the fact that the Belmont crowd booed her, after all she had done for racing. (The Saratoga fans made up for it and cheered Birdstone and her later that year.)

I'm also pretty much glad Smarty Jones didn't win the Triple Crown. The two I am sad about are Spectacular Bid and Funny Cide, the former because he's the greatest American thoroughbred of all time and he'd get more recognition as such had he done it, and the latter because he was a gelding. I don't want anyone to win the Triple Crown and quickly get retired, and that was going to happen with Smarty Jones.

[Saratoga_Mike]

I hated the fact that the Belmont crowd booed her, after all she had done for racing. (The Saratoga fans made up for it and cheered Birdstone and her later that year.)

I'm also pretty much glad Smarty Jones didn't win the Triple Crown. The two I am sad about are Spectacular Bid and Funny Cide, the former because he's the greatest American thoroughbred of all time and he'd get more recognition as such had he done it, and the latter because he was a gelding. I don't want anyone to win the Triple Crown and quickly get retired, and that was going to happen with Smarty Jones.

Really?

[dilanesp]

Really?

Yeah, he is. He never lost between 7 furlongs and 1 1/4 miles, carried tons of weight, shipped all over the country (winning races in numerous major circuits-- Florida, California, New York, New Jersey, Kentucky, and Maryland), beat tons of good horses, ran 3 full seasons, won the last nine races of his career and was incredibly consistent, set a 1 1/4 mile record (the classic distance of American racing, that almost every top horse runs races at) that broke a 30 year old record and has now stood for 33 years itself, after his 2 year old season never lost to a bad horse, set track records as a 2 year old (including at 1 1/16 miles, again, unheard of), set a bunch of track records at 4 as well, ran huge speed figures, ran on fast tracks and off tracks, etc.

And he did all this during the era when the sport was at its deepest, with large crops of foals, lots of competition, and lots of major racing circuits.

So yeah, I think he's the greatest of all American thoroughbreds.

[nijinski]

Yeah, he is. He never lost between 7 furlongs and 1 1/4 miles, carried tons of weight, shipped all over the country (winning races in numerous major circuits-- Florida, California, New York, New Jersey, Kentucky, and Maryland), beat tons of good horses, ran 3 full seasons, won the last nine races of his career and was incredibly consistent, set a 1 1/4 mile record (the classic distance of American racing, that almost every top horse runs races at) that broke a 30 year old record and has now stood for 33 years itself, after his 2 year old season never lost to a bad horse, set track records as a 2 year old (including at 1 1/16 miles, again, unheard of), set a bunch of track records at 4 as well, ran huge speed figures, ran on fast tracks and off tracks, etc.

And he did all this during the era when the sport was at its deepest, with large crops of foals, lots of competition, and lots of major racing circuits.

So yeah, I think he's the greatest of all American thoroughbreds.

If you are talking about the Bid , He certainly is up there among the greatest . His Belmont was a big bad unforgiving ride , tough to watch .

[kinznk]

And he did all this during the era when the sport was at its deepest, with large crops of foals, lots of competition, and lots of major racing circuits.

So yeah, I think he's the greatest of all American thoroughbreds.

I don't like to get into arguments about the best horse of all time because I don't know, my ability to judge horse flesh is minimal at best, and I haven't seen many of the best run in context, only youtube. That being said I want to make a case for another horse as the one of the best.

I really like your quote about the deep foal crops. So using information from the jockey club I would say that Sunday Silence may be better than Spectacular Bid. Here is why.

The 1980 foal crop was 51,296 vs the 1976 crop of 28809. If we cut those numbers in half to account for colts the peers they run against are 25,648 and 14,405 respectively. Of those colts I'm assuming those only above the 3rd standard deviation of talent have a chance at the seriously competing in the TC races. That makes 19 and 35 horses above the 3rd sd. I estimate that half of those don't make it to the TC races because of maturity or injury and half of the remaining ones simply do not have the breeding to go the distances required. Assuming you accept my assumptions the Bid was competing against 4 other top horses while Silence was competing against 7 others.

I understand this only deals with TC races but both went on to race afterwards with success. Just by virtue of foal crop numbers, what SS did was more impressive. As crop numbers continue to decline the chances of a TC winner will improve. This is what makes Secretariat, Seattle Slew, and Affirmed's accomplishments more amazing. The prior TC winner to them, and those before, Citation, was probably competing against himself.

I don't mean to disparage any of the great horses of the past, I only want to put some numbers to it.

[dilanesp]

I don't like to get into arguments about the best horse of all time because I don't know, my ability to judge horse flesh is minimal at best, and I haven't seen many of the best run in context, only youtube. That being said I want to make a case for another horse as the one of the best.

I really like your quote about the deep foal crops. So using information from the jockey club I would say that Sunday Silence may be better than Spectacular Bid. Here is why.

The 1980 foal crop was 51,296 vs the 1976 crop of 28809. If we cut those numbers in half to account for colts the peers they run against are 25,648 and 14,405 respectively. Of those colts I'm assuming those only above the 3rd standard deviation of talent have a chance at the seriously competing in the TC races. That makes 19 and 35 horses above the 3rd sd. I estimate that half of those don't make it to the TC races because of maturity or injury and half of the remaining ones simply do not have the breeding to go the distances required. Assuming you accept my assumptions the Bid was competing against 4 other top horses while Silence was competing against 7 others.

I understand this only deals with TC races but both went on to race afterwards with success. Just by virtue of foal crop numbers, what SS did was more impressive. As crop numbers continue to decline the chances of a TC winner will improve. This is what makes Secretariat, Seattle Slew, and Affirmed's accomplishments more amazing. The prior TC winner to them, and those before, Citation, was probably competing against himself.

I don't mean to disparage any of the great horses of the past, I only want to put some numbers to it.

I will stay out of the argument about "best of all time". I made my case already.

But as for the rest of your post, remember one thing about comparing triple crowns-- you can judge the horses they faced, rather than the full crops. Secretariat's case, for instance, has a lot to do with how good one thinks Sham is (he beat Forego in the Derby, but Forego hadn't blossomed yet). Affirmed has a great case for having the most difficult triple crown because of Alydar. Seattle Slew may have come in the era of large crops, but the horses that he beat in the classics weren't really all that special (J.O. Tobin and Cormorant in the Preakness were probably the best of the lot).

Citation did beat Coaltown, who was a tremendous horse, in the Derby. That's worth a lot, even if his overall crop was thin.