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View Full Version : What if Bush did it?


JustRalph
12-13-2013, 09:18 PM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024172966

Let's Roll
12-13-2013, 09:36 PM
Perhaps a better question would be "What if Romney did it ?"

PaceAdvantage
12-13-2013, 09:36 PM
I believe the term used would be "War Criminal"

PaceAdvantage
12-13-2013, 09:36 PM
Perhaps a better question would be "What if Romney did it ?"Same thing. "War Criminal"

But when Obama does it, he's called the smartest man in the room. :faint:

thaskalos
12-13-2013, 09:39 PM
This is a touchy subject, Ralph...and it doesn"t get much of a response.

Bush did plenty of this too...and we've all learned to look the other way.

You know...patriotism and all...

PaceAdvantage
12-13-2013, 09:43 PM
This is a touchy subject, Ralph...and it doesn"t get much of a response.

Bush did plenty of this too...and we've all learned to look the other way.

You know...patriotism and all...They didn't look the other way when Bush did it. He was probably called everything from racist (for targeting dark-skinned middle-easterners) to war criminal. You know this...

But Obama? The media still loves him, for the most part...he's the cool prez who takes "selfies" with other heads of state at Mandela's memorial.

They wouldn't dare call him a War Criminal or a racist...would they?

It's fascinating to observe those who lean left skirt around the issue of how differently these two presidents are treated when performing the same exact actions.

This video sums it up perfectly:

Skw-0jv9kts

Saratoga_Mike
12-13-2013, 09:46 PM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024172966

Is there an actual legitmate news source explaining the facts and circumstances of this event? I've never seen anyone reference an outside message board post here before - I probably missed it.

Saratoga_Mike
12-13-2013, 09:47 PM
They didn't look the other way when Bush did it. He was probably called everything from racist (for targeting dark-skinned middle-easterners) to war criminal. You know this...

But Obama? The media still loves him, for the most part...he's the cool prez who takes "selfies" with other heads of state at Mandela's memorial.

They wouldn't dare call him a War Criminal or a racist...would they?
It's fascinating to observe those who lean left skirt around the issue of how differently these two presidents are treated when performing the same exact actions.

No, they'd call him a Nobel Peace Prize winner, but I'd still like to see an actual news source on this, not just some message board post.

PaceAdvantage
12-13-2013, 09:48 PM
No, they'd call him a Nobel Peace Prize winner, but I'd still like to see an actual news source on this, not just some message board post.It was on the front page of the NY Post this morning...

Saratoga_Mike
12-13-2013, 09:49 PM
It was on the front page of the NY Post this morning...

Thanks - I pick up the Post occassionally, but not today (I didn't see anything in the Times or WSJ).

PaceAdvantage
12-13-2013, 09:49 PM
Here you go:

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/12/12/21879956-officials-us-drone-strike-kills-13-in-yemen-wedding-convoy

johnhannibalsmith
12-13-2013, 09:51 PM
This is a touchy subject, Ralph...and it doesn"t get much of a response.

Bush did plenty of this too...and we've all learned to look the other way.

You know...patriotism and all...

It gets plenty of a response from me.

One of the reasons that I supported Obama in '08 was that I thought this was the sort of thing that he'd at least try to scale back. Maybe not for all the right reasons, but in this case, my only concern is the outcome.

The posters at DU have it right.

It is pathetic and it matters not who the CIC is.

PaceAdvantage
12-13-2013, 09:54 PM
I would love to hear Jay Trotter's take on this...and hcap's...and mostpost's....

You know...these guys hate faulty intelligence...in fact, when Bush had faulty intelligence, he was immediately called a liar.

So if it turns out this bombing killed 13 innocent people in a wedding party, what do we call Obama?

I guess it's just "Ooopsie...do-over?"

Put a coat of lacquer on his Noble Peace Prize medallion and send him on his merry way...

Saratoga_Mike
12-13-2013, 09:55 PM
Here you go:

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/12/12/21879956-officials-us-drone-strike-kills-13-in-yemen-wedding-convoy

Thank you.

"There were no immediate details on who was killed in the strike, and there were conflicting reports about whether there were militants traveling with the wedding convoy. A military official said initial information indicated the drone mistook the wedding party for an al Qaeda convoy. He said tribesmen known to the villagers were among the dead. One of the three security officials, however, said al Qaeda militants were suspected to have been traveling with the wedding convoy."

PaceAdvantage
12-13-2013, 09:56 PM
I know...if mostpost were here right now, he'd tell us all that Obama had nothing to do with this...it was a military mistake...he'd scold us and ask us if we're dumb enough to think Obama has time to micromanage puny little strikes like these...blah blah blah blah blah blah blah...

Just thought I'd save him some time.

Anything and everything that went wrong in the US (and the world) was Bush's fault, including hurricanes and hurricane response, but once Obama got into the office, nothing is his fault...he's too busy being smart... :lol: :lol:

PaceAdvantage
12-13-2013, 09:57 PM
Thank you.

"There were no immediate details on who was killed in the strike, and there were conflicting reports about whether there were militants traveling with the wedding convoy. A military official said initial information indicated the drone mistook the wedding party for an al Qaeda convoy. He said tribesmen known to the villagers were among the dead. One of the three security officials, however, said al Qaeda militants were suspected to have been traveling with the wedding convoy."Sounds like a whole lot of BS any way you slice it to me...as if these guys know with any degree of certainty (most of the time) who really is al Qaeda and who isn't....

Saratoga_Mike
12-13-2013, 10:01 PM
Sounds like a whole lot of BS any way you slice it to me...as if these guys know with any degree of certainty (most of the time) who really is al Qaeda and who isn't....

I understand your position and concern, but I supported the use of drones under GWB and I support the same policy under Obama. I'm sure Most et al will display the same consistency and condemn Obama for this drone attack.

PaceAdvantage
12-13-2013, 10:05 PM
I understand your position and concern, but I supported the use of drones under GWB and I support the same policy under Obama. I'm sure Most et al will display the same consistency and condemn Obama for this drone attack.I'm not saying I don't support the use of drone strikes.

I'm just saying, how sure can anyone be regarding who is being targeted? Like these people have dossiers? They don't wear uniforms...they don't go down to the DMV to get driver's licenses...they live like nomads...how the hell do we ever find them or even know who half of them are, beyond the highly visible core of leadership? I guess they use cell phones and the internet often enough to be discovered, and that's how they end up on the radar...but still...seems like a lot of "fudging the numbers" if you ask me when it comes to being certain of some of these identities.

johnhannibalsmith
12-13-2013, 10:16 PM
...I'm sure Most et al will display the same consistency and condemn Obama for this drone attack.

Mostpost supports drone attacks. I've argued with him on this subject before and don't believe that his position is one of convenience because of the officeholder.

Jay Trotter
12-13-2013, 10:17 PM
I would love to hear Jay Trotter's take on this...and hcap's...and mostpost's....

You know...these guys hate faulty intelligence...in fact, when Bush had faulty intelligence, he was immediately called a liar.

So if it turns out this bombing killed 13 innocent people in a wedding party, what do we call Obama?

I guess it's just "Ooopsie...do-over?"

Put a coat of lacquer on his Noble Peace Prize medallion and send him on his merry way...Wow, I must be moving up in the world to be grouped in as one of the house leftists.

My question has nothing to do with Bush, but rather what would the U.S. do if another country decided to do this sort of thing on American soil. I'm not saying there isn't a time and a place for some of this but it seems its become all too easy and without repercussion in today's day and age.

On a side note, Mike you really have to give up your whole "whoa is me" diatribe about Bush with every issue. It doesn't become you! :faint:

Let my beating begin....

johnhannibalsmith
12-13-2013, 10:18 PM
I'm not saying I don't support the use of drone strikes.

I'm just saying, how sure can anyone be regarding who is being targeted? ...

You heard it - they are "militants". :rolleyes:

That's good enough. No need to be a soldier or anything too very specific. A militant, an affiliate, a supporter... nothing but very American principals in deciding who is in need some of justice when it comes to this program.

PaceAdvantage
12-13-2013, 10:19 PM
On a side note, Mike you really have to give up your whole "whoa is me" diatribe about Bush with every issue. It doesn't become you! :faint:I'll do that as soon as some of the liberals on here concede their duplicitous ways.

You'll get no beating from me. In fact, I believe you can count on one finger when I've ever even come close to bashing you, and even that was questionable. So please spare me the drama. It doesn't become you.

fast4522
12-13-2013, 10:25 PM
Same thing. "War Criminal"

But when Obama does it, he's called the smartest man in the room. :faint:

While "War Criminal" might be technically correct, rank amateur comes to my mind. The folks who are offended are of one concern, while the greater concern is exactly where is this all going. I have no problem naming people as "enemy of the state" but to only require the executive branch as authorization is indeed pathetic. I understand that is not how this works but the delivery is also problematic, we are born inherent to love life and something has gone terribly wrong.

Saratoga_Mike
12-13-2013, 10:41 PM
Mostpost supports drone attacks. I've argued with him on this subject before and don't believe that his position is one of convenience because of the officeholder.

The search function shows Most first commented on drones in May 2009. At that point, Obama had established the use of drones as his policy. Therefore, Most would support the policy (he always supports Obama; Obama is wise and pensive). Please don't credit Most for consitency when it isn't due. Perhaps I'm missing his earlier support of drones under GWB - love to see it.

See below where Most waffles on the issue:

"No, the reason I can say it is that no objective evidence exists of a policy of the indiscriminate bombing of Pakistani villages. There does appear to be a policy, started in 2006 under Bush, of using Drones to bomb suspected Al Qaeda or Taliban strongholds. This is likely a policy Obama should not have continued. Of course, if Obama had announced that he was abandoning this policy, You would have been the first to sream that he was "Soft on terrorism""

johnhannibalsmith
12-13-2013, 11:05 PM
...Please don't credit Most for consitency when it isn't due. ...

I'm giving my opinion. And in my opinion, this is one case where he actually believes his stated opinion. Lord knows I've laughed at mosite's positions of convenience or blind loyalty, but having been around the block with him several times on this one, I don't think that is the case on this subject.

NJ Stinks
12-13-2013, 11:15 PM
Mostpost was and is right. If the U.S. was being hit by terrorist attacks, the right would be screaming bloody hell about the Clueless One. Since the U.S. has not been hit, the right latches onto whatever they can grab.


Because the message has to somehow get back to Obama being Clueless. (I'd use the rolleyes icon but for some reason the icons aren't working for me. I blame Bush!! LOL)

Saratoga_Mike
12-13-2013, 11:20 PM
I'm giving my opinion. And in my opinion, this is one case where he actually believes his stated opinion. Lord knows I've laughed at mosite's positions of convenience or blind loyalty, but having been around the block with him several times on this one, I don't think that is the case on this subject.

If his history/posts on the matter only go back to 2009, there's no way to know what he believed under GWB. I don't believe for a second he supported the use of drones by GWB.

Saratoga_Mike
12-13-2013, 11:22 PM
Mostpost was and is right. If the U.S. was being hit by terrorist attacks, the right would be screaming bloody hell about the Clueless One. Since the U.S. has not been hit, the right latches onto whatever they can grab.




Your general assertion is correct: Obama would be blamed for an attack. But that's a political point. Did you support the use of drones under GWB?

johnhannibalsmith
12-13-2013, 11:39 PM
... the right would be screaming bloody hell...

I think it depends on which "right". The political right would be for sure. The ideological right, I believe, is a bit more in the camp that I'm in and have been in on this one.

NJ Stinks
12-13-2013, 11:48 PM
Your general assertion is correct: Obama would be blamed for an attack. But that's a political point. Did you support the use of drones under GWB?


To be honest, I don't remember Bush using drones. (Sounds like a copout, I know.)

Saratoga_Mike
12-13-2013, 11:50 PM
To be honest, I don't remember Bush using drones. (Sounds like a copout, I know.)

Note to PA: You didn't predict this one - give him points for creativity (is he serious?).

NJ Stinks
12-13-2013, 11:55 PM
I just did a search to see what I said about drones previously. Here is about the only thing I could find on point and it was posted in March this year:

Drones - drones save American soldiers' lives and prevents serious injury to our soldiers. These facts is [are] indisputable. Also, drones have been effective in keeping us safe at home. Is it wrong to use drones considering loss of innocent life in foreign countries? Certainly, it is debatable but it is not a black & white issue IMO.

Tom
12-14-2013, 10:36 AM
Given the state of US intelligence, or lack of it these days, I say ground the drones until you know what you are doing. Point being, just the other day, our GREAT intelligence machine allowed a deranged individual to stand 18 inches from the President of the United States and pretend to be a signer. It boggles the mind to think what might have happened. Not the first time potential unsubs have had close access the the POTUS.

Perhaps NSA is overwhelmed reading personal emails?

Tom
12-14-2013, 10:38 AM
My question has nothing to do with Bush, but rather what would the U.S. do if another country decided to do this sort of thing on American soil.

What worries me is the US doing it on our soil.

fast4522
12-14-2013, 01:12 PM
I think it would be considered an act of war, and all options would be on the table including a nuclear response if the drone delivered something other than a HSM. At some point things will ratchet vertically with these drones which is why the use of them by an incompetent in sovereign airspace without a declared war is disturbing.

JustRalph
12-14-2013, 03:32 PM
Given the state of US intelligence, or lack of it these days, I say ground the drones until you know what you are doing. Point being, just the other day, our GREAT intelligence machine allowed a deranged individual to stand 18 inches from the President of the United States and pretend to be a signer. It boggles the mind to think what might have happened. Not the first time potential unsubs have had close access the the POTUS.

Perhaps NSA is overwhelmed reading personal emails?

I cannot believe someone from the secret service is not getting fired over this?

I also saw that the "mime" was charged with murder a few years back?

TJDave
12-14-2013, 03:56 PM
just the other day, our GREAT intelligence machine allowed a deranged individual to stand 18 inches from the President of the United States and pretend to be a signer.

I was greatly amused.

Comedians won't run out of material until 2026.

Saratoga_Mike
12-14-2013, 04:00 PM
I cannot believe someone from the secret service is not getting fired over this?

I also saw that the "mime" was charged with murder a few years back?

...it really makes you wonder

TJDave
12-14-2013, 04:03 PM
I also saw that the "mime" was charged with murder a few years back?

Who talked?

PaceAdvantage
12-14-2013, 10:10 PM
Mostpost was and is right. If the U.S. was being hit by terrorist attacks, the right would be screaming bloody hell about the Clueless One. Since the U.S. has not been hit, the right latches onto whatever they can grab.By "the right," are you only talking about those who post here whom you believe are right-leaners?

If so, I believe you are incorrect. I don't think right-leaners here have a problem with Obama using drones. I think they have a problem with the TOTAL LACK of criticism of this president when things appear to go wrong. Criticism Bush would receive in droves...by not only those left-leaners here, but left-leaning pundits in the media.

They are all strangely quiet whenever Obama makes a mistake. Thus, they are duplicitous and hypocritical. Own it.

fast4522
12-15-2013, 08:08 AM
I do not think that the President needs criticism from the left, what the left needs is a moral compass. And some of us feel drones should be used in war like tanks. While the technology to export them for use against us is not here yet, it is not that far off. Only a fool can not think the place your Ipod is made, soon drones will be made.

JustRalph
12-15-2013, 05:45 PM
By "the right," are you only talking about those who post here whom you believe are right-leaners?

If so, I believe you are incorrect. I don't think right-leaners here have a problem with Obama using drones. I think they have a problem with the TOTAL LACK of criticism of this president when things appear to go wrong. Criticism Bush would receive in droves...by not only those left-leaners here, but left-leaning pundits in the media.

They are all strangely quiet whenever Obama makes a mistake. Thus, they are duplicitous and hypocritical. Own it.

:ThmbUp: Great summation