Just when you think you have heard it all.

[Robert Goren]

Rick Clark, the sheriff of Pickens County, S.C., vowed on Friday to defy President Obama's order that U.S. flags be lowered to half staff in honor of deceased South African leader Nelson Mandela.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/south-carolina-sheriff-vows-not-to-lower-flag-for-mandela
I thought I had heard every excuse there was for committing a racist act, but I was wrong. Everybody knows this about race including the other racists who support his actions. It is too bad this jerk has drag the flag into it.

[chrisl]

I completely agree with the sheriff Nelson was not a American. If anyone brings race into this is very pathetic.

[Mike at A+]

Everybody knows this about race ...
Is it possible that the presidential order itself is "about race"?

[Robert Goren]

Is it possible that the presidential order itself is "about race"?It is about honoring a man who fought racial discrimination.

[Mike at A+]

It is about honoring a man who fought racial discrimination.
Well if that is the common denominator for flying an American flag at half staff, millions of ordinary people would qualify for that same honor. I'm sure many think that Al Sharpton "fights racial discrimination".

[jballscalls]

Well if that is the common denominator for flying an American flag at half staff, millions of ordinary people would qualify for that same honor. I'm sure many think that Al Sharpton "fights racial discrimination".

Seems to me that Mandela's efforts are viewed slightly more positively both domestically and around the world than Sharptons?

I don't see a problem with it. I read Pope John Paul II in 2005 was the last foreign person to have flags lowered for. I wonder if this sheriff thought that was race related?

[FantasticDan]

Yes, by all means, let's once again undermine a man whose been bestowed pretty much every high honor and award a country and world can bestow upon him, who sacrificed so much in the pursuit of freedom and equality in the fight against fascism, let's suggest his posthumous honors are "about race". :bang: :ThmbDown:

There are many countries honoring Mandela by flying flags at half-staff.. Canada, France, Norway, New Zealand just to name a few.

The US flew flags at half staff to honor Pope John Paul II, King Hussein of Jordan, Yitzhak Rabin, and Anwar Sadat. Pretty sure none of them were Americans, either.

Someone should have told Bush, Clinton, and Reagan that the honor was reserved only for Americans, a sheriff in SC said so. :p

[fast4522]

I think Nelson Mandela was a remarkable man in many respects, one of which was living to 95 years old in a country that life expectancy is not even close to that. The man's accomplishments and ideals were truly above the average person in our time, but he was not an American hero. Real American hero's we tend to ignore, marginalize, and forget. It is just the times that we are living in, the "me" period. So let us do something with the flag because we have more numbers of people in this country on disability than live inside the entire country of Greece.

[Dave Schwartz]

Seems to me that Mandela's efforts are viewed slightly more positively both domestically and around the world than Sharptons?

I don't see a problem with it. I read Pope John Paul II in 2005 was the last foreign person to have flags lowered for. I wonder if this sheriff thought that was race related?

Gotta go with JBS on this one.

There are simply some people who are due honor and respect. Color should not matter.

LOL - Sharpton is "kind of" a different story.

[horses4courses]

There will always be a reaction like this somewhere within the US.
Shouldn't come as any surprise, really.
Pathetic.

[schweitz]

I have no problem with the flag at half staff for Mandela but I would like to point out that the thread starter introduced racism into this story. There is no mention of race in the story.

[Hank]

The good sheriff will very likely be elected to congress in the near future.Those who think racism played some role in his actions are surely mistaken,He did not mention race and there is no president for that type of behavior in the american south.

[ArlJim78]

The race detectives have solved the case once again. I'm amazed at how they can read minds and motives from afar.
Oh you're white and from the south? then you're racist. case closed.

[schweitz]

The good sheriff will very likely be elected to congress in the near future.Those who think racism played some role in his actions are surely mistaken,He did not mention race and there is no president for that type of behavior in the american south.

The perfect example of liberal-think---it just has to be racism, it just has to; and if it's not the story we will make it the story.

[horses4courses]

The "good sheriff" has his version of how things should be in this country.
Case closed.

[FantasticDan]

The perfect example of liberal-think---it just has to be racism, it just has to; and if it's not the story we will make it the story.So you honestly think that if flags were ordered to half staff for the death of the Pope, or a white international humanitarian figure the likes of Mandela, this sheriff would still be resisting all the same? Cuz they, "ain't american"?

Talk about willful naivete. Get real.

[newtothegame]

It is extremely funny you all on the left are trying to paint this sheriff as "racist" and how honorable our president is for the lowering flags to half staff....

But lets really look deeper......

Obama gets involved in a Harvard professors arrest..........
(Professor was black)..........

Obama gets involved in teen shooting in Florida.....
(teen was black)

And, I am sure there are more examples........my question here is why aren't you all on the left questioning our presidents motives yet you question a sheriff for not willingly honoring a NON American?

[schweitz]

So you honestly think that if flags were ordered to half staff for the death of the Pope, or a white international humanitarian figure the likes of Mandela, this sheriff would still be resisting all the same? Cuz they, "ain't american"?

Talk about willful naivete. Get real.


I don't know anything about this sheriff except for the story in this thread---and neither do you.

But what I do know is that there are plenty of examples of racism being injected into events (by liberals) because that fits their agenda.

I prefer to have more information before I consider a man to be a racist just because he's from the south and the flag honoree is a black man.

[Saratoga_Mike]

So you honestly think that if flags were ordered to half staff for the death of the Pope, or a white international humanitarian figure the likes of Mandela, this sheriff would still be resisting all the same? Cuz they, "ain't american"?

Talk about willful naivete. Get real.

I think I agree with you on this one, but I need more info - have flags been ordered to half staff when other important international figures have passed away? If so, I agree with your point.

[woodtoo]

Maybe this sheriff was more concerned with some of Mandelas disparaging comments

"If there is a country in the world that has committed unspeakable atrocities in the world,it is the United States of America"

"The United States is a threat to world peace"

" The life of Che (Guevara) is a great inspiration for every person who loves liberty...Long live the Cuban Revolution.Long Live Fidel Castro."

[Ocala Mike]

The "good sheriff" has his version of how things should be in this country.




Fortunately, there are other versions of how things should be in this country that have prevailed. The problem with his version is that it is mired in a view that everything that "used to be" needs to be sanctified and glorified.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Maybe this sheriff was more concerned with some of Mandelas disparaging comments

"If there is a country in the world that has committed unspeakable atrocities in the world,it is the United States of America"

"The United States is a threat to world peace"

" The life of Che (Guevara) is a great inspiration for every person who loves liberty...Long live the Cuban Revolution.Long Live Fidel Castro."

I hear you on his politics, but I can still see honoring him for his role in helping end apartheid in S. Africa.

[Tom]

The "good sheriff" has his version of how things should be in this country.
Case closed.As does Obama.
So what?

[woodtoo]

I hear you on his politics, but I can still see honoring him for his role in helping end apartheid in S. Africa.

ditto

[woodtoo]

Funny,just bet Missile Threat @ WDB ...didn't fire :D

[chrisl]

Half mast is for Patriotic Americans. Mr Mandela I feel was a great man he did voice his opinion on America quite often.

[BlueShoe]

The race detectives have solved the case once again. I'm amazed at how they can read minds and motives from afar.
Oh you're white and from the south? then you're racist. case closed.
Why actually, the qualifications required to gain this skill are quite simple. All one has to do is be a liberal.

[dartman51]

I have no problem with the flag at half mast. Mandela was a great man. I have the utmost respect for him. There should be more people with his attitude. I recall an interview with him, after being in prison for 27 years, he was asked if he hated the people who held him. He said, and I paraphrase, "No, they owned me for 27 years, if I hated them now, they would still own me." :ThmbUp:

[thaskalos]

Half mast is for Patriotic Americans.

Like Whitney Houston?

[Jay Trotter]

The U.S. flag has been lowered to half-staff for Pope John Paul II , Yitzhak Rabin, King Hussein, Anwar Sadat and Winston Churchill.

Canada has lowered the flag for Ronald Reagan and Gerald Ford among others. Most counties around the world commonly honor distinguished foreign (ie. U.S.) leaders.

If the flag can't be lowered for Nelson Mandela then who really will ever rate such an honor.

On a side note, what were the sheriff's stated reasons, if any, for not wanting to honor Mandela?

[PaceAdvantage]

Mandela was considered a terrorist by the US Gov't until 2008, he was a Marxist sympathizer if not outright believer....and a mere five years later after being removed from the terrorist watch list, if someone has a problem with lowering the flag for him, there's gotta only be one reason....

It's cause his skin is dark...

You gotta be shittin' me. You left-leaners just LOVE that race card...

Keep pulling it out of your pocket...it used to piss me off, but now it just makes me laugh...

[PaceAdvantage]

And by the way, if anyone is under the impression that *I* think Mandela was a terrorist because of my recent factual posts on this subject, well then, those people are dumber than even I could imagine.

Just needed to clarify that, as many things get misinterpreted here by those of different ideological beliefs. We all have our blinders on and read only what we want to read. So sadly, I must clarify what I write even though what I wrote had nothing to do with my opinion.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Mandela was considered a terrorist by the US Gov't until 2008, he was a Marxist sympathizer if not outright believer....and a mere five years later after being removed from the terrorist watch list, if someone has a problem with lowering the flag for him, there's gotta only be one reason....

It's cause his skin is dark...

You gotta be shittin' me. You left-leaners just LOVE that race card...

Keep pulling it out of your pocket...it used to piss me off, but now it just makes me laugh...

His politics changed/softened over time, only fair to mention that.

[PaceAdvantage]

His politics changed/softened over time, only fair to mention that.Yes, of course. Like I said, just because I am posting facts doesn't mean that I agree that the man should be looked upon as a terrorist today. However, it is well known that his ideology leaned Marxist, if not heavily so. And he did engage or endorse tactics that marked him as a terrorist at one time by the US Gov't.

He was also a brave, courageous man who stood up for his beliefs and led South Africa out of the disgrace that was apartheid. I don't think anyone can or will dispute that.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Yes, of course. Like I said, just because I am posting facts doesn't mean that I agree that the man should be looked upon as a terrorist today. However, it is well known that his ideology leaned Marxist, if not heavily so. And he did engage or endorse tactics that marked him as a terrorist at one time by the US Gov't.

He was also a brave, courageous man who stood up for his beliefs and led South Africa out of the disgrace that was apartheid. I don't think anyone can or will dispute that.

All good points - perhaps Mr. Goren will learn from your posts on this matter.

[BlueShoe]

If I desired to do so, I could fill an entire page with links documenting Mandela's Communist Party membership, his connection with communists, his terrorist activities, his lavish praise of dictators and communist leaders around the globe, his blatant anti-Americanism, and the opposition to his policies and the ANC among several other black organizations in South Africa.

[Robert Goren]

If I desired to do so, I could fill an entire page with links documenting Mandela's Communist Party membership, his connection with communists, his terrorist activities, his lavish praise of dictators and communist leaders around the globe, his blatant anti-Americanism, and the opposition to his policies and the ANC among several other black organizations in South Africa. So you think the apartheid government was a better alternative than Mandela? Remember there are only two choices here.

[Saratoga_Mike]

So you think the apartheid government was a better alternative than Mandela? Remember there are only two choices here.

Please re-read his post. This time, don't imagine things that don't exist.

[BlueShoe]

So you think the apartheid government was a better alternative than Mandela? Remember there are only two choices here.
No, at that time there was a third choice, and that was to become a client state of the Soviet Union, which would have been far worse than the other two.

As a sidenote, while apartheid was bad, if it was so intolerable, why then did South Africa, for many decades, have a serious illegal immigrant problem? Black Africans from other sub Saharan nations flocked to SA to get jobs and raise their standard of living. Do not ever recall any media outlet on the left ever mentioning this.

[Tom]

So you think the apartheid government was a better alternative than Mandela? Remember there are only two choices here.

That is one giant leap you make here.
Nothing BS said indicates this.

[Hank]

If I desired to do so, I could fill an entire page with links documenting Mandela's Communist Party membership, his connection with communists, his terrorist activities, his lavish praise of dictators and communist leaders around the globe, his blatant anti-Americanism, and the opposition to his policies and the ANC among several other black organizations in South Africa.

If I desired to do so,I could fill an entire page with links documenting the fact that the reds did indeed aid the ANC in their fight against the racist apartheid regime while the US and the rest of the west backed the racist as long as they could.His "terrorist" activities were incited by the brutal slaughter and oppression of protesters by the racist. .And if stating historical facts about the the US history of racism slavery and genocide constitutes anti-Americanism then yeah guilty as charged.I feel really sad for people whose worldview is so jingoistic and myopic that they have no ability to perceive objective reality.

[thaskalos]

If I desired to do so,I could fill an entire page with links documenting the fact that the reds did indeed aid the ANC in their fight against the racist apartheid regime while the US and the rest of the west backed the racist as long as they could.His "terrorist" activities were incited by the brutal slaughter and oppression of protesters by the racist. .And if stating historical facts about the the US history of racism slavery and genocide constitutes anti-Americanism then yeah guilty as charged.I feel really sad for people whose worldview is so jingoistic and myopic that they have no ability to perceive objective reality.

The U.S. supporting "racist regimes"? Where do you get this sort of propaganda talk?

Don't you know that the U.S. stands for all that's fair and just...and that the U.S. government is supremely qualified to decide who is a "terrorist" and who is not?

[Robert Goren]

No, at that time there was a third choice, and that was to become a client state of the Soviet Union, which would have been far worse than the other two.

As a sidenote, while apartheid was bad, if it was so intolerable, why then did South Africa, for many decades, have a serious illegal immigrant problem? Black Africans from other sub Saharan nations flocked to SA to get jobs and raise their standard of living. Do not ever recall any media outlet on the left ever mentioning this.You should go back and re-think this post. You have just come off as a racist of the first order by using the same argument that the apartheid government used. That is nicest thing I can say about this post. I am trying real hard not to believe that you are a scum bucket. This post makes that really hard.

[tucker6]

You should go back and re-think this post. You have just come off as a racist of the first order by using the same argument that the apartheid government used. That is nicest thing I can say about this post. I am trying real hard not to believe that you are a scum bucket. This post makes that really hard.
He brings up a valid point which you are unwilling to address. Apartheid in some cases was less cruel towards its black citizens than in the dictatorships of the day, such as Uganda, etc. He isn't saying that Apartheid was good, but in some cases was better than the alternative form of govt seen most often at the time. Try to remember we are talking 1970's and 80's here. The political map was vastly different then. You see black and white, but there is and was plenty of gray too.

[Tom]

You should go back and re-think this post. You have just come off as a racist of the first order

Is there anything in his post that is not true?

[tucker6]

Is there anything in his post that is not true?
When posters start hand waving like Robert is, you know they've hit an intellectual wall.

[BlueShoe]

He brings up a valid point which you are unwilling to address. Apartheid in some cases was less cruel towards its black citizens than in the dictatorships of the day, such as Uganda, etc. He isn't saying that Apartheid was good, but in some cases was better than the alternative form of govt seen most often at the time. Try to remember we are talking 1970's and 80's here. The political map was vastly different then. You see black and white, but there is and was plenty of gray too.
From the 60's through the 80's there were Cuban "Freedom Fighters" and Soviet "Advisors" all over Africa, plus some involvement by the ChiComs. After the end of colonialism, there were civil wars, widespread strife, and dictatorship all over the continent. Compared to the rest of Sub Saharan Africa, South Africa was relatively stable. As mentioned in an earlier post, many came to SA because of this as illegal immigrants. Compare life in South Africa to the regimes of Idi Amin or Robert Mugabe, or the horrible civil wars that took hundreds of thousands of lives.

As usual, and as expected, the leftists play the race card, and only the race card. They parrot the tired bromide that just because Mandela was Black, therefore he was Good, and those Whites that opposed him were Bad. While Mandela did seek reconciliation and moderated in his later years, his earlier crimes cannot be forgiven, regardless of liberal attempts to revise history.

[FantasticDan]

As usual, and as expected, the leftists play the race card, and only the race card. They parrot the tired bromide that just because Mandela was Black, therefore he was Good, and those Whites that opposed him were Bad.Are you serious with this? It seems kooky even for you.. :confused: :ThmbDown:

[BlueShoe]

Are you serious with this? It seems kooky even for you.. :confused: :ThmbDown:
Are the bars open this early where you are at Danny, you seem to be a bit befuddled? To leftists, the primary fact to consider when addressing just about every issue is race, with gender second, and everything else of lesser importance. There have been thousands and thousands of examples of this warped thought process in recent years.

[FantasticDan]

So you honestly believe that the only reason why "leftists" believe Mandela was "good" is because he was black, and why the Apartheid regime was "bad" is because they were white?

Do leftists also believe that Harriet Tubman or MLK Jr were good because of their blackness, and Hitler and Mussolini bad cuz they were white? Or does your idiotic rationale not extend quite that far?

[Robert Goren]

Is there anything in his post that is not true?The immigration was not illegal for starters. A better question would be was there anything in his post that was true.

[Robert Goren]

Are the bars open this early where you are at Danny, you seem to be a bit befuddled? To leftists, the primary fact to consider when addressing just about every issue is race, with gender second, and everything else of lesser importance. There have been thousands and thousands of examples of this warped thought process in recent years.And here I thought the only thing we leftists thought about was how to turn the world into one large communist state.:rolleyes:

[rastajenk]

It's not the only thing, but it's the big thing. After you've divided and conquered, a big statist form of government will be needed to keep 'em all in line.

[burnsy]

Mandela was considered a terrorist by the US Gov't until 2008, he was a Marxist sympathizer if not outright believer....and a mere five years later after being removed from the terrorist watch list, if someone has a problem with lowering the flag for him, there's gotta only be one reason....

It's cause his skin is dark...

You gotta be shittin' me. You left-leaners just LOVE that race card...

Keep pulling it out of your pocket...it used to piss me off, but now it just makes me laugh...

I'm no left leaner, then again i'm no right leaner either. Anyone that reads what i write should know that. I pretty much weigh things out on my own which makes one despise both sides. But there come a time for class and diplomacy, especially when someone like that dies. If that guy was a "terrorist", that country may still be burning to this day. He did something thats higher than most.....told people to put their guns away. I don't give a shit if he was a socialist, what was happening to (black) people there was wrong. A friend of mine (hes white) spent time in a South African prison during that time when he was in the peace corps...he'll never be the same again, got tortured.....PTSD. He is white, tried to go there and help black people out, got thrown in prison for his trouble (as an American citizen). It all comes down to power and money, we didn't want things to change there, thats how he got the "terrorist" label. People in this country had plenty to lose if things were righted. We use words like liberty, freedom and justice for all...its mostly a farce to keep people in line. This knuckle dragger maybe a racist or his family may of had investments there...who knows and who cares....the dead guy had more class in his pinky finger than this fool who probably expects the flags to be at half mast when he dies. One moron comes on here and defends aparthied because there was economic activity and jobs...thats what the slave owners said to justify slaves and part of the problem as i stated. "it was not intolerable" Yeah, tell my friend that...he saw people get tires wrapped around them and get burned to death...it was all fun and games. Talk about people posting without a clue. My guess is this guy (Mr. Flag waiver, i want your vote) would not last a day where my friend and Mandela were.

[Ocala Mike]

I'm no left leaner, then again i'm no right leaner either. Anyone that reads what i write should know that. I pretty much weigh things out on my own which makes one despise both sides. But there come a time for class and diplomacy, especially when someone like that dies. If that guy was a "terrorist", that country may still be burning to this day. He did something thats higher than most.....told people to put their guns away. I don't give a shit if he was a socialist, what was happening to (black) people there was wrong. A friend of mine (hes white) spent time in a South African prison during that time when he was in the peace corps...he'll never be the same again, got tortured.....PTSD. He is white, tried to go there and help black people out, got thrown in prison for his trouble (as an American citizen). It all comes down to power and money, we didn't want things to change there, thats how he got the "terrorist" label. People in this country had plenty to lose if things were righted. We use words like liberty, freedom and justice for all...its mostly a farce to keep people in line. This knuckle dragger maybe a racist or his family may of had investments there...who knows and who cares....the dead guy had more class in his pinky finger than this fool who probably expects the flags to be at half mast when he dies. One moron comes on here and defends aparthied because there was economic activity and jobs...thats what the slave owners said to justify slaves and part of the problem as i stated. "it was not intolerable" Yeah, tell my friend that...he saw people get tires wrapped around them and get burned to death...it was all fun and games. Talk about people posting without a clue. My guess is this guy (Mr. Flag waiver, i want your vote) would not last a day where my friend and Mandela were.

:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[Jay Trotter]

Well said burnsy! :ThmbUp::ThmbUp::ThmbUp:

[tucker6]

One moron comes on here and defends aparthied because there was economic activity and jobs...thats what the slave owners said to justify slaves and part of the problem as i stated.
I'm sure you'll be able to direct me to the post that defends apartheid, correct??

[Robert Goren]

I'm sure you'll be able to direct me to the post that defends apartheid, correct??From Blueshoe's post 47
"As usual, and as expected, the leftists play the race card, and only the race card. They parrot the tired bromide that just because Mandela was Black, therefore he was Good, and those Whites that opposed him were Bad. While Mandela did seek reconciliation and moderated in his later years, his earlier crimes cannot be forgiven, regardless of liberal attempts to revise history."
Those earlier crimes were an attempt to over throw the apartheid government in South Africa. How can an attempt to over that government not be a good thing? How can criticizing any and all attempts to over throw it not be showing support for apartheid?

[tucker6]

From Blueshoe's post 47
"As usual, and as expected, the leftists play the race card, and only the race card. They parrot the tired bromide that just because Mandela was Black, therefore he was Good, and those Whites that opposed him were Bad. While Mandela did seek reconciliation and moderated in his later years, his earlier crimes cannot be forgiven, regardless of liberal attempts to revise history."
Those earlier crimes were an attempt to over throw the apartheid government in South Africa. How can an attempt to over that government not be a good thing? How can criticizing any and all attempts to over throw it not be showing support for apartheid?
Allow me to ask again. Please direct me to the post that defends apartheid?

[PaceAdvantage]

I'm no left leaner, then again i'm no right leaner either. Anyone that reads what i write should know that. I pretty much weigh things out on my own which makes one despise both sides. But there come a time for class and diplomacy, especially when someone like that dies. If that guy was a "terrorist", that country may still be burning to this day. He did something thats higher than most.....told people to put their guns away. I don't give a shit if he was a socialist, what was happening to (black) people there was wrong. A friend of mine (hes white) spent time in a South African prison during that time when he was in the peace corps...he'll never be the same again, got tortured.....PTSD. He is white, tried to go there and help black people out, got thrown in prison for his trouble (as an American citizen). Sorry to hear about your friend. One thing I learned from Mandela's passing, something I found pretty amazing, is that Mandela said he was never tortured in prison.

[Tom]

The immigration was not illegal for starters. A better question would be was there anything in his post that was true.

Whether or not the immigration was legal or illegal is not the point he was making. The point was that people were moving into South Africa, which is a fact.

His first sentence stated that there were three alternatives, while you incorrectly said there were only two. And he clearly pointed out he was not inferring that apartheid was good.

Now, care to spell out all the lies you claim were in that post, or was your intent to just label him a racist and then run away from it?

[cj's dad]

I have always find it strange that folks from different countries and political leanings comment on events in other locales and cultures, 99.9% of us here on PA have never experienced what it must have been ike to live under apartheid or in SA. Not trying to be critical of any commenting here; I just find it ill informed.

[Robert Goren]

Whether or not the immigration was legal or illegal is not the point he was making. The point was that people were moving into South Africa, which is a fact.

His first sentence stated that there were three alternatives, while you incorrectly said there were only two. And he clearly pointed out he was not inferring that apartheid was good.

Now, care to spell out all the lies you claim were in that post, or was your intent to just label him a racist and then run away from it?If you think the immigration was illegal(which it was not), then there is nothing left to discuss. You just total ignorant of the facts and make up things as you go along whenever you caught in a bind. If there were any illegal immigrants in South Africa, it was the Dutch and English white settlers there. Some the Black population was native to the area and some were brought in to work, mostly in the mines. Blacks were not the only people that discriminated against in South Africa. They had whole hierarchy of races codified into law. To defend anything that apartheid government did makes you a racist. It is that simple. None of this "it was a different time" stuff holds water.

[newtothegame]

If you think the immigration was illegal(which it was not), then there is nothing left to discuss. You just total ignorant of the facts and make up things as you go along whenever you caught in a bind. If there were any illegal immigrants in South Africa, it was the Dutch and English white settlers there. Some the Black population was native to the area and some were brought in to work, mostly in the mines. Blacks were not the only people that discriminated against in South Africa. They had whole hierarchy of races codified into law. To defend anything that apartheid government did makes you a racist. It is that simple. None of this "it was a different time" stuff holds water.

Libs have nothing but to be able to use the racist card...time and time again..lol

[Robert Goren]

Libs have nothing but to be able to use the racist card...time and time again..lol The apartheid government was racist and they were proud of it. Why is that so hard for some people to accept? They put race into their law. Those laws are all on the net for anybody to read. Try reading some of them and then come back tell me they weren't racist. Some conservatives like to pretend that race never effect anything anytime. Unfortunately for them, the racists left a pretty big paper trail and still do.

[tucker6]

The apartheid government was racist and they were proud of it. Why is that so hard for some people to accept? They put race into their law. Those laws are all on the net for anybody to read. Try reading some of them and then come back tell me they weren't racist. Some conservatives like to pretend that race never effect anything anytime. Unfortunately for them, the racists left a pretty big paper trail and still do.
Robert, Robert, Robert ...

Who exactly are you fighting against in this thread? There has been no one on here that has defended Apartheid. NONE. That means, get ready for it, that no one is being racist in this thread. To bring up that Apartheid was possibly less evil than some of the totalitarian dictatorships of the time is a fact!! You're too close-minded to differing points of view too often it seems. Who was worse, Hitler or Stalin? The answer depends on your point of view. What was worse, Apartheid or Idi Amin's govt? The answer depends on your point of view, but I'd hazard many blacks would have preferred Apartheid to that even though it too was evil. That's all anyone has been saying in this thread.

[Tom]

If you think the immigration was illegal(which it was not), then there is nothing left to discuss.

RIF.
I said it did not matter - people chose to move into S Africa.

[BlueShoe]

If there were any illegal immigrants in South Africa, it was the Dutch and English white settlers there.
The Dutch have been in SA since the 17th century and the English since the end of the 18th. Many families can trace their ancestry back that far and are proud of it. According to your logic and applying an analogy to America, a resident of New England whose ancestors were on the Mayflower is an illegal immigrant, and the rightful owners today would be a Wampanoag, Pequot, or Mahican Indian.

[Tom]

Bobby, you have totally lost it in this thread.......did you mark your trail? :lol:

[Robert Goren]

The Dutch have been in SA since the 17th century and the English since the end of the 18th. Many families can trace their ancestry back that far and are proud of it. According to your logic and applying an analogy to America, a resident of New England whose ancestors were on the Mayflower is an illegal immigrant, and the rightful owners today would be a Wampanoag, Pequot, or Mahican Indian.And the Blacks since ..... to at least 100,000 BC. What is your point? That Whites are good at stealing land? I doubt you find an argument about that from either the Blacks or the Native Americans.

[BlueShoe]

And the Blacks since ..... to at least 100,000 BC. What is your point? That Whites are good at stealing land? I doubt you find an argument about that from either the Blacks or the Native Americans.
Ah, the cult of White Guilt is alive and well in the psyche of the American Liberal. Sorry, but I do not feel one damn bit guilty.

Had you been alive in what now is Southeastern Montana on June 25, 1876, bet that you would have rooted very loudly for the Teton Sioux, Northern Cheyenne, and Northern Arapaho to defeat the 7th cavalry regiment commanded by Lt. Col. George A. Custer. Also mildly curious as to how many times you have watched what surely must be your favorite film, "Dances With Wolves", the worst historical film ever to have come out of Hollywood.