Events we may never see again in racing..

[TheEdge07]

1.Back to back triple crown winners like 77-78
2.3 year old filly finishing in the money in all 3 triple crown races-Geniune Risk.
3.3 triple crown winners in the same decade accomplished in the 70's
4.Winning horse of the year 5 times like Kelso
5.Secretariat's Belmont performance.

[Stillriledup]

Woody's 5 Consecutive Belmonts.

[TheEdge07]

Woody's 5 Consecutive Belmonts.

Dr.Fager world record mile carrying that much weight.

[VeryOldMan]

Triple Crown winners racing against each other like Seattle Slew v. Affirmed in the fall of 1978.

[thaskalos]

A mare running in back-to-back Breeders Cup Classics...and coming within a diminishing neck of bagging a double.

[TheEdge07]

Triple Crown winners racing against each other like Seattle Slew v. Affirmed in the fall of 1978.

Wow forgot about that one..real good one.

[PoloUK6108]

A mare running in back-to-back Breeders Cup Classics...and coming within a diminishing neck of bagging a double.

Only one mentioned so far that I've been alive to witness. Her first Classic could go down in history on the trip alone.

[Stillriledup]

A trainer winning UNDER 300 races in his first 8 years of training and then winning OVER 1,700 races in his next 7.

[PaceAdvantage]

A mare running in back-to-back Breeders Cup Classics...and coming within a diminishing neck of bagging a double.The way racing has been churning out quality females as of late and lesser quality males, I wouldn't be too sure about this one..

[rrpic6]

A 1% Trainer in the Hall of Fame...Jack Van Berg.

RR

[ArlJim78]

I'm not sure we won't see #2 ever again. Given a chance Rags To Riches or Rachel Alexandra were capable of doing it. No reason to think there won't be more especially since the colts are rather ordinary in recent years.

Don't think we're going to experience anything like the 70's again.

[nijinski]

Atlantic City , The Meadowlands and Hialeah to be lucky enough to
ever see a horse like Spectacular Bid step into their gates again .

[Paseana]

A horse winning the Santa Anita Handicap and the Arlington Million twice.

A horse being voted HOTY, Champion Older Male, Turf Male, and Sprinter in the same year.

A 3yo filly doing what Rachel Alexandra did.

A horse running 1-1/2 miles at Belmont in 2:24 flat.


Those are just a few that come to mind.

[thespaah]

Dr.Fager world record mile carrying that much weight.
ANY horse carrying that much weight.

[thespaah]

Atlantic City , The Meadowlands and Hialeah to be lucky enough to
ever see a horse like Spectacular Bid step into their gates again .
Or John Henry

[BlueShoe]

Colts that win graded stakes at 3 that do not retire to the breeding sheds at an early age, but continue racing at least until age 6 or even 7.

[thespaah]

10,000 people at Belmont on a weekday

[thespaah]

20,000 people at Belmont on JCGC day

[SharpCat]

A 3yo winning the Met Mile and Travers.

[maclr11]

Ron the Greek and Flat Out both raced into later years after being graded stakes winners at 3

Game on Dude is too, but he's a gelding

Gio Ponti won a graded stake at three and at six
Court Vision is the same boat, a GSW at 2 and at six

There's a few exceptions to what is the norm of 3yo's or 4yo's being whisked off to stud farms.
Guess we should be lucky we get what we get.

[Jeff P]

1. All sources North American thoroughbred handle above $15 Billion in a single year.

2. Exacta Takeout in California lower than 22.68%.

3. Industry decision makers willing to rethink the idea that demand for the product and pricing of said product cannot possibly be related.


-jp

.

[devilsbag]

http://www.nytimes.com/1981/04/26/sports/peat-moss-a-winner-under-145.html

[nijinski]

Or John Henry

Yes so true and we may need see another horse with as many
honors as this little guy .

[iceknight]

2. Exacta Takeout in California lower than 22.68%.
haha you got there before me, I was about to do a takeout based post, but I was also trying to google the takeout rates from 60's and 70's and all I got was lot of CHinese Takeout listings :lol:

[Jasonm921]

The late double results on primetime news reports in NYC (ie. Warner Wolf-1980's).

[RacingFan1992]

A horse who leads at every quarter of a race be it a 5 1/2 furlong sprint to a 1 1/2 mile GI Stakes.

A filly who wins both a Black-Eyed Susan/Preakness Double. (Nellie Morse 1924) To her defense they were not back to back days like they are now.

A filly who wins the Kentucky Oaks, Black - Eyed Susan, Acorn, Mother Goose and Coaching Club American Oaks. (Davona Dale 1979)

A match race between both champion 2 year old filly and colt.

[maclr11]

Do you want to see another match race between the best filly and the best colt?
The positive is the sport could get good publicity, if another Ruffian came along that matched up in the same year a Foolish Pleasure

The downside is that is a lot of risk and a lot of pressure and a catastrophic injury would probably be the final dagger in horses racings mainstream publicity or any chance of regaining it.

There has not been a match race between good horses ever since, and I'm not sure that's a bad thing.

[RacingFan1992]

There is no strategy in a match race other than sprint the entire distance. I would rather see the two champions race in a full field where they could get into trouble and have a hard time running than see them run themselves into an early grave. I would love to see a champion match race but lets say Shanghai Bobby and Beholder fought it out. The first moment one pulled up like you said it would make people say "Well nothing's changed. They killed one back then and they did it now." I just don't think racing should take the risk. Please people don't not add fuel to this fire by starting an argument about what happened 40 years ago and who is better than who and what could have been. I started this by posting the what ifs and I am sorry.

[NJ Stinks]

A Derby winner skipping the Preakness to run in another stake a week after the Preakness. (Spend a Buck)

[nijinski]

[QUOTE=maclr11]Do you want to see another match race between the best filly and the best colt?
The positive is the sport could get good publicity, if another Ruffian came along that matched up in the same year a Foolish Pleasure

The downside is that is a lot of risk and a lot of pressure and a catastrophic injury would probably be the final dagger in horses racings mainstream publicity or any chance of regaining it.

There has not been a match race between good horses ever since, and I'm not sure that's a bad thing.[/Q

I don't think that will happen again . The activists would come out droves . Anything thing that would come out in publicity would likely reference Ruffian .

[maclr11]

The activists have come out in droves over lots of things
The activists come out because horses wear shoes, lets be serious
And has enough time passed that a lot of the mainstream media and or a lot of the people not remember Ruffian or understand it fully.


Racingfan is right though, its way too stressful on the horses, and the horsemen would never allow it.

Star power though is going to be one of the major ways to attempt to get racing back in good public perception.

Zenyatta got the ball rolling, the sport desperately needs a triple crown winner.

[RacingFan1992]

A Jockey Club Gold Cup that is 2 miles long.

[maclr11]

A 3yo winning the Met Mile and Travers.
A horse winning the Met Mile and the Belmont in the same week

[RacingFan1992]

Was that Sword Dancer or Arts and Letters or neither?

[RacingFan1992]

From what I am finding it was both horses who did that.

[nijinski]

This Event .....Dancer's Image did get to wear the roses of a Kentucky Derby champion.

After all , it's been clean since 1968 !

Another Dancer's Image Derby DQ for medication . Nah , It looks like the rules are very clear and no one wants to risk it !

All this said , I tend to lean towards the conspiracy theory .

[maclr11]

Was that Sword Dancer or Arts and Letters or neither?
Both I believe

Actually both won all three
The Met Mile, Travers and Belmont

That's a huge feat

Consquistador Cielo was the other winner of the Met Mile/Belmont in 82

That week basically won him horse of the year

[RacingFan1992]

A horse who wasn't supposed to win the triple crown (Sir Barton) and wasn't acknowledged for doing such. Ya never know, if we all didn't think much of a horse winning these three it may happen again.

[iceknight]

Not that I saw it.. but you will not see another Man O' War.. where his ONLY loss (by 1/2 length at the finish) was when he was facing backwards when other horses started racing!

[iceknight]

http://www.nytimes.com/1981/04/26/sports/peat-moss-a-winner-under-145.html this. is a gem..

Especially when you see who else is casually mentioned in there!

"Dave's Friend, a 6-year-old gelding by Friend's Choice, was timed in 1:09 3/5 for six furlongs. He holds the track record of 1:08 1/5. Naughty Jim closed well to take second, 1 1/2 lengths ahead of Fappiano, making his first start since last November."

[nijinski]

The activists have come out in droves over lots of things
The activists come out because horses wear shoes, lets be serious
And has enough time passed that a lot of the mainstream media and or a lot of the people not remember Ruffian or understand it fully.


Racingfan is right though, its way too stressful on the horses, and the horsemen would never allow it.

Star power though is going to be one of the major ways to attempt to get racing back in good public perception.

Zenyatta got the ball rolling, the sport desperately needs a triple crown winner.

I am being serious . I think in the case of Ruffian , it's one of those
horse racing events that is etched in history as a very somber event .
It was also huge front page news .
I couldn't see any anyone in the media reporting without mentioning
Ruffian"s race .

Zenyatta , I totally agree ,she was very good for the sport ! The sport
most certainly need a star .

[nijinski]

this. is a gem..

Especially when you see who else is casually mentioned in there!

"Dave's Friend, a 6-year-old gelding by Friend's Choice, was timed in 1:09 3/5 for six furlongs. He holds the track record of 1:08 1/5. Naughty Jim closed well to take second, 1 1/2 lengths ahead of Fappiano, making his first start since last November."
Daves Friend was one of the first horses I got to see at the track .
He was as hard knocking as it gets and I followed him until he died
as an older gelding . John Franks was my hero , he retired him at his farm
and kept a wonderful groom in charge of his care .

[RacingFan1992]

The hoarse voice of Harry Henson calling "And it's LANDALUCE galloping out by 12 lengths." who won the 1982 Hollywood Lassie Stakes.

[TheEdge07]

Spectacular Bids walkover in the Woodward...

Andy Beyer.writing another book.

[tucker6]

Not that I saw it.. but you will not see another Man O' War.. where his ONLY loss (by 1/2 length at the finish) was when he was facing backwards when other horses started racing!
you do realize that didn't actually happen, right? He may have been caught flat footed at the start, but he wasn't facing backwards.

[Robert Goren]

A new book on handicapping that has something new and major to say and will change the way a lot of people handicap.

[turninforhome10]

A racehorse being on the cover of Time magazine for being a truly outstanding athlete, rather than an expose on corruption. http://content.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,19730611,00.html

[the little guy]

Jeff Platt making a post here that doesn't mention takeout.

[Beachbabe]

A thoroughbred race track in Alabama.

A race track named after a state spelled backwards.

[badcompany]

Packed stands at a harness track.

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l142/thinlizzy21/e149d727fdf814f5becb15b5d4771168_zps49fa83b9.jpg

[stu]

The sitting President of the United States visits/attends a horse race program.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1955&dat=19681117&id=OlwlAAAAIBAJ&sjid=9aAFAAAAIBAJ&pg=4844,1176307

[raybo]

Jeff Platt making a post here that doesn't mention takeout.

LOL - good one! Of note though is that he doesn't often tout his software, but rather takes his position in HANA very seriously, for the good of the game, for everyone. Both qualities are extremely commendable, IMO.

[melman]

Packed stands at a harness track.

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l142/thinlizzy21/e149d727fdf814f5becb15b5d4771168_zps49fa83b9.jpg
BadCo---There is still one place left you must have forgotten. This year's live attendance 47,651.

http://www.harnesslink.com/News/Vegas-Vacation-wins-Little-Brown-Jug-in-world-record

[raybo]

A new book on handicapping that has something new and major to say and will change the way a lot of people handicap.

Dave might take issue with that. :lol:

[raybo]

A legal internet wager in the state of Texas. :bang:

[badcompany]

BadCo---There is still one place left you must have forgotten. This year's live attendance 47,651.

http://www.harnesslink.com/News/Vegas-Vacation-wins-Little-Brown-Jug-in-world-record

Didn't realize the event still drew that many, but, Yonkers and Roosevelt used to draw 25-30k every Saturday night. That we'll almost certainly never see again.

[mountainman]

Malicious, old-school trolls atttempting to dominate racing forums. Their time has passed. The era of civility is upon us. Respect for others "hot"..name calling "not". Strident debate and edgy, opinionated sarcasm have steadily become the tolerable limit on this site. Thats a credit to both mods and posters, and I love it.

[Jeff P]

http://www.nytimes.com/1981/04/26/sports/peat-moss-a-winner-under-145.html
and
this. is a gem..

Especially when you see who else is casually mentioned in there!

"Dave's Friend, a 6-year-old gelding by Friend's Choice, was timed in 1:09 3/5 for six furlongs. He holds the track record of 1:08 1/5. Naughty Jim closed well to take second, 1 1/2 lengths ahead of Fappiano, making his first start since last November."
Wow. The article at that link really takes me back. (THANK YOU for posting that!)

My earliest exposure to horses, and betting on them in a serious way, came as a young man back in 1981-1982. I lived in Phoenix at the time - about 5 miles from Turf Paradise.

One of the first things I tried that actually showed promise was to work out my own version of the pecking order (class structure) of the better horses on the grounds in terms of who beat who, by how much, and how much WEIGHT they had to carry when they did it.

One of the better horses on the grounds at TUP that first year was Bobby Ben. I recall looking at his running lines and seeing the names of the horses who had bested him. One of those names was none other than Dave's Friend (in a race at AKS if memory serves.)

And although I never saw Dave's Friend race (and at the time had no idea where else he may have raced) I knew from the way he had handled Bobby Ben in that race at AKS - and from the way Bobby Ben had handled some of the better horses at TUP - that Dave's Friend must have been a real race horse.

The idea that horses could be classed according to who they had beaten and under what conditions - combined with data that suggested a player armed with a better understanding of how to class horses than the betting public might actually have a chance to come out on top...

THAT realization cemented it for me.

And thus a lifelong horseplayer was borne.


-jp

.

[TheEdge07]

and

Wow. The article at that link really takes me back. (THANK YOU for posting that!)

My earliest exposure to horses, and betting on them in a serious way, came as a young man back in 1981-1982. I lived in Phoenix at the time - about 5 miles from Turf Paradise.

One of the first things I tried that actually showed promise was to work out my own version of the pecking order (class structure) of the better horses on the grounds in terms of who beat who, by how much, and how much WEIGHT they had to carry when they did it.

One of the better horses on the grounds at TUP that first year was Bobby Ben. I recall looking at his running lines and seeing the names of the horses who had bested him. One of those names was none other than Dave's Friend (in a race at AKS if memory serves.)

And although I never saw Dave's Friend race (and at the time had no idea where else he may have raced) I knew from the way he had handled Bobby Ben in that race at AKS - and from the way Bobby Ben had handled some of the better horses at TUP - that Dave's Friend must have been a real race horse.

The idea that horses could be classed according to who they had beaten and under what conditions - combined with data that suggested a player armed with a better understanding of how to class horses than the betting public might actually have a chance to come out on top...

THAT realization cemented it for me.

And thus a lifelong horseplayer was borne.


-jp

.

I remember Zany Tactics running 6f in 106 and change at Turf Paradise.

[BlueShoe]

Horses of all ages and classes racing back quickly from their last outing, 5 to 21 days, as was once routine, instead of staying in the barn 30-60 days between races, as is common today.

[mountainman]

you do realize that didn't actually happen, right? He may have been caught flat footed at the start, but he wasn't facing backwards.

I think he was stiffed. And there is faint, elusive evidence.

[devilsbag]

Wow. The article at that link really takes me back. (THANK YOU for posting that!)

My pleasure and happy to say that I was there that day. I thought of Peat Moss when I saw the original post. Found this picture:

https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/540800_10151546423938013_1901181149_n.jpg

This Google search thing really has a future.

Dave's Friend also was a favorite of mine and the first sprint specialist to pass the million dollar mark. One of a zillion terrific horses out of the best foal crop in history (1975), and that includes 1954.

[thespaah]

Jeff Platt making a post here that doesn't mention takeout.:lol:

[thespaah]

Didn't realize the event still drew that many, but, Yonkers and Roosevelt used to draw 25-30k every Saturday night. That we'll almost certainly never see again.I used to go to RR during the fall in the late 70's and early 80's....
Typical Sat night attendance would be 17-20k.
On some occasions, track management would hold the first post ten mins due to the large crowds

[porchy44]

1) Racing GROWING a fan base.

2) Race tracks not begging for slots

3) Big overlays on early speed.

[tzipi]

JOCKEY WINNING A RACE WHILE DEAD. :eek: :eek: :eek:


http://curioushistory.com/post/34500682889/dead-jockey-wins-race#.Up0HpMRDvL8

This is one, no one will ever see again.

[thespaah]

At the completion of the current meeting, Racing at Hollywood Park.... :mad:

[affirmedny]

I think he was stiffed. And there is faint, elusive evidence.

Maybe a jockey "moved out of the way" and let Upset through?

[affirmedny]

A Jockey Club Gold Cup that is 2 miles long.

Or a horse winning it after winning the 7 furlong Vosburgh in 1:21 and change three weeks earlier.

[iceknight]

you do realize that didn't actually happen, right? He may have been caught flat footed at the start, but he wasn't facing backwards. Actually, No. I read up that piece on Man O' War only recently. I did read there were some doubts to that... but I didnt want any facts to get in the way of a good sensationalist story. I am still mad about the tooth fairy, santa claus etc so I didnt want to lose a sense of wonder. Seemed believable with the whole "no gates" story. :lol: thanks for telling the truth now :(

[RacingFan1992]

Quote:
Originally Posted by RacingFan1992
A Jockey Club Gold Cup that is 2 miles long.



Or a horse winning it after winning the 7 furlong Vosburgh in 1:21 and change three weeks earlier.

Good Old Forego. That is something you will never see is a horse carrying 137 lbs who weighs 1200 lbs beat a horse who is carrying about 119 lbs. That was an awesome Marlboro Cup in 1976.

[CincyHorseplayer]

1.Back to back triple crown winners like 77-78
2.3 year old filly finishing in the money in all 3 triple crown races-Geniune Risk.
3.3 triple crown winners in the same decade accomplished in the 70's
4.Winning horse of the year 5 times like Kelso
5.Secretariat's Belmont performance.

#3 was accomplished 3 times.

1)1930's-Omaha,War Admiral,Whirlaway

2)1940's-Count Fleet,Assault,Citatiton

3)1970's-Secretariat,Seattle Slew,Arrirmed

[RacingFan1992]

I think you mean
3 - 30's (Gallant Fox - 1930, Omaha - 1935, War Admiral - 1937)
4 - 40's (Whirlaway - 1941, Count Fleet - 1943, Assault - 1946, Citation - 1948)
3 - 70's (Secretariat - 1973, Seattle Slew - 1977, Affirmed - 1978)

Can't forget
1 - 10's (Sir Barton - 1919)

[CincyHorseplayer]

I think you mean
3 - 30's (Gallant Fox - 1930, Omaha - 1935, War Admiral - 1937)
4 - 40's (Whirlaway - 1941, Count Fleet - 1943, Assault - 1946, Citation - 1948)
3 - 70's (Secretariat - 1973, Seattle Slew - 1977, Affirmed - 1978)

Can't forget
1 - 10's (Sir Barton - 1919)

Yeah you're right.I was writing down their birth years when I looked up their bloodlines.

How about a Triple Crown winner siring a TC winner in Gallant Fox and Omaha?With no gap between.

As a side note,6 of the first 8 TC winners were descendants of 2 male families;

Isinglass line-Sir Barton,Whirlaway,and Assault.

Teddy line-Gallant Fox,Omaha,and Citation.

[RacingFan1992]

I have no clue if that is even possible to have a father and son team that are a year apart.

[RacingFan1992]

How about the Native Dancer bloodline being hard to find in any pedigree.

Also a Classic winner who has absolutely no Native Dancer in his/her blood. (Giacomo 2005) in the 21st century.

[dilanesp]

A Derby winner skipping the Preakness to run in another stake a week after the Preakness. (Spend a Buck)

I could totally see that one happening again. It was produced by bonus money and that could materialize again.

[nijinski]

How about the Native Dancer bloodline being hard to find in any pedigree.

Also a Classic winner who has absolutely no Native Dancer in his/her blood. (Giacomo 2005) in the 21st century.

ND is there but if you look at Tapit or Pulpit , you will see Raise a Native on the chart . You have to go way back to find his name . He'll be around for a long while ,

[dilanesp]

you do realize that didn't actually happen, right? He may have been caught flat footed at the start, but he wasn't facing backwards.

Yeah. That story is demonstrative of something we also see in the Secretariat excuses. Fans of all time greats tend to not accept that sometimes horses lose.

[RacingFan1992]

I meant that we may never see a Classic winner without Native Dancer blood and there will never be a time when Native Dancer blood is hard to find in the pedigrees.

[nijinski]

I meant that we may never see a Classic winner without Native Dancer blood and there will never be a time when Native Dancer blood is hard to find in the pedigrees.

Yes you did , was I that misunderstood :)

[CincyHorseplayer]

I have no clue if that is even possible to have a father and son team that are a year apart.

There were no TC winners between father and son.It was 5 years apart.

[CincyHorseplayer]

How about the Native Dancer bloodline being hard to find in any pedigree.

Also a Classic winner who has absolutely no Native Dancer in his/her blood. (Giacomo 2005) in the 21st century.

I hear you,since the last TC winner(35 years) I have ND line winning;

Kentucky Derby-46%

Preakness-40%

Belmont-51%

It gets even more pronounced over the last 20 years;

Derby-60%

Preakness-55%

Belmont=70%

[CincyHorseplayer]

Here's my TC theory for the future.

Looking at 2 of the last 3 TC winners,they were of Bold Ruler descent.

I think that line got bred out during the 80's with too many mixes with turf line mares(can't prove it just guessing).

Someone wanted that male line back to start over again so they crossed Secretariat and Seattle Slew and got AP INdy.

AP Indy is tossing class and stamina and it is transferring to his sons.

Orb through Malibu Moon(AP Indy) might just be the start.Was in female line of Super Saver also.

Theory-I think the Northern Dancer class underneath is most effective,especially from a stamina line.But the next TC winner IMO will be either that Native Dancer or AP Indy on top.Just looking at the 2yo route preps if either Northern Dancer or AP Indy's are on top,it's usually with Native Dancer on bottom.

[antigeekess]

Just 4 years ago. Mine That Bird, Kentucky Derby. Unbelievable. Maybe we'll see another 50-1 shot win, but I bet we never see another ride like that to get there. That little Cajun is insane.

And in case anybody's missed the news, the movie is coming next year. Calvin plays himself. Of course. :)

http://www.standardbredcanada.ca/news/11-26-13/mine-bird-film-announced.html

[Al Gobbi]

Riots at the racetrack over steward's decisions, with the cops being called in to break it up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUqHVP02yM0&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[raybo]

Just 4 years ago. Mine That Bird, Kentucky Derby. Unbelievable. Maybe we'll see another 50-1 shot win, but I bet we never see another ride like that to get there. That little Cajun is insane.

And in case anybody's missed the news, the movie is coming next year. Calvin plays himself. Of course. :)

http://www.standardbredcanada.ca/news/11-26-13/mine-bird-film-announced.html

Cool!! Can't wait to watch it. That was the super I didn't bet because of the 50/1 ranked on top. I've always told people to not let high odds run them off, then I do exactly that. :bang: I'll never forgive myself for that one.

[oldtimer]

Tote board and will pays that are for real. NO CANCELED BETS!

[antigeekess]

Cool!! Can't wait to watch it. That was the super I didn't bet because of the 50/1 ranked on top. I've always told people to not let high odds run them off, then I do exactly that. :bang: I'll never forgive myself for that one.

Painful, Raybo. Painful.

One more good reason to ask Santa for a time machine for Christmas.

[RacingFan1992]

Here's my TC theory for the future.

Looking at 2 of the last 3 TC winners,they were of Bold Ruler descent.

I think that line got bred out during the 80's with too many mixes with turf line mares(can't prove it just guessing).

Someone wanted that male line back to start over again so they crossed Secretariat and Seattle Slew and got AP INdy.

AP Indy is tossing class and stamina and it is transferring to his sons.

Orb through Malibu Moon(AP Indy) might just be the start.Was in female line of Super Saver also.

Theory-I think the Northern Dancer class underneath is most effective,especially from a stamina line.But the next TC winner IMO will be either that Native Dancer or AP Indy on top.Just looking at the 2yo route preps if either Northern Dancer or AP Indy's are on top,it's usually with Native Dancer on bottom.

I know I should not do this but i think one example is Honor Code. His sire is A.P. Indy. Honor Code has Northern Dancer by way of Serena's Cat. Native Dancer is on the bottom through Serena's Tune. If it happens it happens if it doesn't it doesn't. I am not saying anything about the "YOU KNOW WHAT" that hasn't happened in 35 years.

[lamboguy]

the days when there was only a daily double and 3 perfecta's for every race card along with all the cigar smokers walking around the track with trench coats and top hat's on

[TimesTheyRAChangin]

you do realize that didn't actually happen, right? He may have been caught flat footed at the start, but he wasn't facing backwards.

I had always understood that the wire was raised before he was facing completely forward,and found himself about 2 lengths behind from the start.
But what about the finish?
Apparently Upset hit the wire a half length in front of Man O' War,but Big Red was rolling so fast that he completely crossed the finish line before Upset did!!
(Maybe that is a bit of an exaggeration?)

P.S.Secretariat must have felt so honoured that Penny Tweety called him by the same nickname as the great legend himself!!!

[RacingFan1992]

In the 60 minutes Sports edition Penny said she always called him Secretariat the public were the ones who came up with the name "Big Red." She said that in her mind he was not a nickname horse he was SECRETARIAT.

[dilanesp]

I had always understood that the wire was raised before he was facing completely forward,and found himself about 2 lengths behind from the start.
But what about the finish?
Apparently Upset hit the wire a half length in front of Man O' War,but Big Red was rolling so fast that he completely crossed the finish line before Upset did!!
(Maybe that is a bit of an exaggeration?)

P.S.Secretariat must have felt so honoured that Penny Tweety called him by the same nickname as the great legend himself!!!

There are a ton of tall tales about great horses. You should be very skeptical of many of the stories about MOW and Secretariat.

[BlueShoe]

the days when there was only a daily double and 3 perfecta's for every race card along with all the cigar smokers walking around the track with trench coats and top hat's on
The days when there were no exotic wagers offered whatsoever, only win, place, and show. This is how Santa Anita was prior to 1960, when they finally offered the daily double. Exactas, the Pick-6, the Triple, which was what the Pick-3 was then called (still is by a few old timers) were still a few years away, with the trifecta and superfecta wagers relatively recent in California.

[TimesTheyRAChangin]

In the 60 minutes Sports edition Penny said she always called him Secretariat the public were the ones who came up with the name "Big Red." She said that in her mind he was not a nickname horse he was SECRETARIAT.

Well,if that's the truth behind it,I'm sorry for all the years I silently cursed her for having the audacity to think he could run in Man O' War's horseshoes!
I should have known better from a horse person.But it just infuriated me whenever I heard it.
Wanna know what I really think?(LOL)

[TimesTheyRAChangin]

There are a ton of tall tales about great horses. You should be very skeptical of many of the stories about MOW and Secretariat.

Are you telling me that MOW never won that stakes race by over 100 lengths either?
Is it my old age & failing memory?
Was it only 100 feet?
I remember a lot of this stuff from oldtimers in the 50's & 60's.
Are you saying the track is full of people just telling horsetales?
They told me they were there.
Just like the 500,000 people at the track for Secretariat's Belmont!
Why would they lie?

[RacingFan1992]

The easiest thing to use is discretion. An event might happen and it not be recorded but it does not mean that it didn't happen.

[Tribettor]

Signs of a different time, but....

A maiden winning the Kentucky derby and then on to win the triple crown (of course, impossible with the point system in place now).

A horse winning the Kentucky Derby, Preakness and the Belmont Stakes but in between the Preakness and the Belmont Stakes, runs in the Withers....and wins that.

Sir Barton accomplished both feats.

A two year old racing 35 times.

Seabiscuit, and probably many others, did this.

[dilanesp]

The easiest thing to use is discretion. An event might happen and it not be recorded but it does not mean that it didn't happen.

The thing is, even in MOW's era and certainly in Secretariat's, there were tons of reporters covering horse racing. Which means the stuff that was true tended to get contemporaneously recorded.

Which means that stories that were not reported at the time and appeared later, especially in books written by people who needed to fill 150 pages, are much less likely to be fully true.

[RacingFan1992]

A horse winning the Kentucky Derby, Preakness and the Belmont Stakes but in between the Preakness and the Belmont Stakes, runs in the Withers....and wins that.

Count Fleet was the only other horse who won the Withers. I see that there is a lot of triple crown failures that won it. Zev in 1923, Johnstown in 1939, and Native Dancer in 1953.

[BlueShoe]

A colt that races in the Derby Trial and comes back 7 days later and wins the Derby.

[TimesTheyRAChangin]

I bet I can name something that will never be seen again!!!

Remember taking those thick pieces of cardboard to the matching cashiers' windows.They were usually found back to back with the sellers.Your ticket had to be printed with the matching wager type,& dollar amount.
$2 w,p,s at it's own window.
$5 w,p,s ditto
$2 ex ditto
$6 combine ditto
This was at least in the late 50's,early 60's,and I remember you couldn't even bet $1000 on a horse w/o the seller having the tote pound out 20 $50 tickets at it's own boxed in area.The sound carried through the track anyways,and people would just wait to see which idiot came walking out into the open after making such a large wager.I never really cared who knew,but I always cashed early the next racing day,not when the place was full of people just waiting to see who came back to the $50 cashier!
Anyways,it's when you went to cash,and had to wait for the mechanical arm,holding that nicely sharpened pencil,to print out the payoffs on the roll of adding machine tape???,and have the clerk tear it off before she would give you your $$$!
Those will never be seen again!

[thespaah]

I bet I can name something that will never be seen again!!!

Remember taking those thick pieces of cardboard to the matching cashiers' windows.They were usually found back to back with the sellers.Your ticket had to be printed with the matching wager type,& dollar amount.
$2 w,p,s at it's own window.
$5 w,p,s ditto
$2 ex ditto
$6 combine ditto
This was at least in the late 50's,early 60's,and I remember you couldn't even bet $1000 on a horse w/o the seller having the tote pound out 20 $50 tickets at it's own boxed in area.The sound carried through the track anyways,and people would just wait to see which idiot came walking out into the open after making such a large wager.I never really cared who knew,but I always cashed early the next racing day,not when the place was full of people just waiting to see who came back to the $50 cashier!
Anyways,it's when you went to cash,and had to wait for the mechanical arm,holding that nicely sharpened pencil,to print out the payoffs on the roll of adding machine tape???,and have the clerk tear it off before she would give you your $$$!
Those will never be seen again!
When I started going to the track in the late 70's most had the tote system machines. As you stated there were 2,5,10,20 and $50 sellers. And around the other side, the cashiers windows.
I was just a kid when I started. So what did I do? I kept some of these old tote tickets as souvenirs. Still have them today.

[RacingFan1992]

How bout a trainer who trained a father son team in five years and had the potenial to win two more in 1939 and 1955 for the same breeder owner.

[RacingFan1992]

How bout a trainer who trained a father son team in five years and had the potenial to win two more in 1939 and 1955 for the same breeder owner.

I take that back only three were homebreds. The 1939 was purchased.

[mountainman]

Yeah. That story is demonstrative of something we also see in the Secretariat excuses. Fans of all time greats tend to not accept that sometimes horses lose.

I once debated a guy on here who wanted to expunge all of Secretariat's losses based either on retroactive speed figs or reports that the horse had been ill. In effect, to declare him undefeated and unbeatable. I'm not kidding. And he was actually pretty sharp. I had my hands full.

[dilanesp]

I once debated a guy on here who wanted to expunge all of Secretariat's losses based either on retroactive speed figs or reports that the horse had been ill. In effect, to declare him undefeated and unbeatable. I'm not kidding. And he was actually pretty sharp. I had my hands full.

I'm sure within a few years someone will come up with an excuse for Zenyatta losing to Blame. Maybe when the biography comes out.

[RacingFan1992]

Blame the Upset of the Foolish Pleasure.

First loss crappy start late rally
second loss DQ'd
third loss abscess
fourth loss sick running temperature
fifth loss sick diarrhea

The only time a horse wins is when they cross the line first.

[RacingFan1992]

I know one thing we will never see at a track is a race horse entourage quite like these people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byMwqmv9A8U

[dilanesp]

Blame the Upset of the Foolish Pleasure.

First loss crappy start late rally
second loss DQ'd
third loss abscess
fourth loss sick running temperature
fifth loss sick diarrhea

The only time a horse wins is when they cross the line first.

I got sick of the Secretariat excuses and went back and looked at the films and news reports.

The DQ was debatable but certainly plausible. He had an excuse in the maiden race, and did have the abcess in the Wood.

But the Prove Out loss was just him getting outrun. Prove Out ran really fast that day, 2:25 and change, and just beat him fair and square. No excuses were offered in the press coverage.

[cj]

We'll never again see the Derby winner skip the Preakness for the Jersey Derby.

[cj]

I'm sure within a few years someone will come up with an excuse for Zenyatta losing to Blame. Maybe when the biography comes out.

Within a few years? There were some trotted out within a few seconds of crossing the finish line.

[RacingFan1992]

The same ones seem to surface. Zenyatta got a horrible start. Mike Smith didn't move quick enough to get into position for the win. She wasn't used to getting dirt thrown in her face. I heard so many people who wanted a match race. I hated when people would call her a one dimensional horse who only stalked and people even called Ruffian a mediocre filly because she only ran one way and her fields weren't that good. There will always be haters.

[classhandicapper]

Transportation to the track, paying for entrance, a DRF, a burger or hot dog and a coke, another drink a few hours later, and escaping for less than $20-$25.

[classhandicapper]

Within a few years? There were some trotted out within a few seconds of crossing the finish line.

2 strides out of the gate I had one, 1/16th into the race I had two, about a 1/4 mile into the race I had 3, and about 1 mile into the race I had 4. I watched that race at least 50 times and I'd still play her against Blame in the rematch even though I bet against her that day. :lol: And this is coming from a guy that thinks Blame is very underrated.