The Magical Cam Newton!

[Stillriledup]

AMAZING! With 7 mins to go in the 3rd Qtr, Cam put on a clinic on how to avoid passrushers, break clear and run for the first down. You'll see this as one of the top 10 plays on Sportcenter.

DUH DAH DUH, DUH DUH DUH!

(for those not watching the game, the current score is Panthers 10, Refs 10)

[thaskalos]

That wasn't holding in the end zone on the final play?

The ref was right there and he threw the flag...and then he picked it up?

I am starting to believe the whizz about the fixed games.

[wiffleball whizz]

That wasn't holding in the end zone on the final play?

The ref was right there and he threw the flag...and then he picked it up?

I am starting to believe the whizz about the fixed games.

They show the ref staring right at the play who or why would anybody overturn him......

When u hear the announcers say "the score has been confirmed from upstairs" that same person must have buzzed down no flag

These games are scripted and it's getting harder to dispute the fact

[Bettowin]

They show the ref staring right at the play who or why would anybody overturn him......

When u hear the announcers say "the score has been confirmed from upstairs" that same person must have buzzed down no flag

These games are scripted and it's getting harder to dispute the fact

Can you get me the scripts for next week:) If that isn"t pass interference I don't know what is anymore.

[wiffleball whizz]

Can you get me the scripts for next week:) If that isn"t pass interference I don't know what is anymore.

I just can't figure out how it can be overturned....did this shit go on 10-20 years ago? This is a joke

[Robert Fischer]

I don't know if it's holding or pass interference. Not an a expert on that ruling.

Should be one of the two.

The defender first hit the receiver where the ball eventually landed, and pushed him to the back of the endzone.

[Stillriledup]

I don't know if it's holding or pass interference. Not an a expert on that ruling.

Should be one of the two.

The defender first hit the receiver where the ball eventually landed, and pushed him to the back of the endzone.

They don't call penalties on hail mary plays. Ever.

A penalty in real life, is not a penalty on the last play. On the last play, all bets are off.

The refs kept New England in the game, there was a phantom PI call that kept their drive alive with 20 or 30 seconds left in the game, it shouldnt have even come to that.

[thaskalos]

They don't call penalties on hail mary plays. Ever.

A penalty in real life, is not a penalty on the last play. On the last play, all bets are off.

The refs kept New England in the game, there was a phantom PI call that kept their drive alive with 20 or 30 seconds left in the game, it shouldnt have even come to that.
That was a "hail mary"?

[Stillriledup]

That was a "hail mary"?

Yes. You throw the ball in the air and say "hail, mary".

[thaskalos]

Yes. You throw the ball in the air and say "hail, mary".

SRU...I think that you are wrong on both counts here.

That was not a hail mary...it was a pass with a pretty good chance of success -- especially with someone like Brady throwing it. And Gronkowski was practically mugged on the play -- with the referee being right on top of the action.

You are also wrong about the previous pass interference call being a phantom call.

[PaceAdvantage]

Being wrong never stopped him before...

[bobbyb]

I believe in The Whizz...................................


http://i964.photobucket.com/albums/ae128/bobbyb_photos/1450723_540938865992012_1794273074_n_zps3bdea302.j pg

[lamboguy]

the greatest sports moment in history was Ken Brett's pine tar game against the yankees. he blasted a towering home run to give the Royals the lead and Billy Martin comes out of the dugout to protest the homer due to pine tar on his bat. i was on the right side of this one, but i can honestly say i never even heard of the rule in my life. they took the home run off the board and the Yankees went on to win, and i went into Churchill Downs in Las Vegas to cash my tickets with the biggest smile on my face.

[Marshall Bennett]

The ball wasn't catchable therefore it can't be interference. The refs got it right.

[Quagmire]

It looked more like defensive holding. The ball doesn't have to be catchable to call holding like it does for PI.

[burnsy]

Look at the pic, theres two defenders right there. Its pretty much a "hail mary", with that much time left, they never call on that. But the refs were calling bs all night right from the start. On 3rd down twice in a row they called "hands to the face" on carolina...both guys barely brushed the mask.....practically giving NE a Td until Riddley fumbled. There were bad calls though for both sides, they only let these guys play during the playoffs, when the calls drop by a third. Why are there hardly ever penalties during the playoffs and especially during the SB? Its so bad that people look for flags like in this case....it does not matter that there are two guys right there and one (defensive guy) has a clear shot at the ball. That pic shows hes never going to catch that in a million years whether hes free or not...it makes the point for a non call. How is that a good pass with a chance to be caught by the offensive player? Its like 3 yards short. That picture makes the case for no penalty. This is what they probably saw on tape. All these pass interferance calls are what makes the game suck and it should be changed..(the college rule on this is better)...teams that are behind just start throwing the ball up in the air praying for a call...it happens in every other game.....thats when its "rigged"...its turned into the NPL or national pussy league. If he was open and someone runs over and grabs him, yeah ok, but theres two defenders right there. If teams count on winning this way, of course they going to get burned.....how about playing good before the last 2 minutes...when you have to hope for the refs "miracle call"?

[bobbyb]

Burnsy, I def agree with you re the College Rule. Seems like every pass play is a 50/50 for a call against. Getting a little silly.

As far as the play last night -watching it in slow motion, the Linebacker did push him back far enough that it left it open for the interception. Gronk new he was screwed.

bobby

[precocity]

I believe in The Whizz...................................


http://i964.photobucket.com/albums/ae128/bobbyb_photos/1450723_540938865992012_1794273074_n_zps3bdea302.j pg
:lol: :lol:



cant catch the dam ball when you are GETTING mugged from the start!smh refs look at the no VS SF game? san fran player said the ref was talking sh&T TO HIM. :D

[Relwob Owner]

I just can't figure out how it can be overturned....did this shit go on 10-20 years ago? This is a joke


Were there bad calls 10-20 years ago? Yes, I believe there were

[Relwob Owner]

Yes. You throw the ball in the air and say "hail, mary".


I believe a Hail Mary is a very long forward pass, made in desperation....if so, you are incorrect

[TheEdge07]

They show the ref staring right at the play who or why would anybody overturn him......

When u hear the announcers say "the score has been confirmed from upstairs" that same person must have buzzed down no flag

These games are scripted and it's getting harder to dispute the fact

wiff are throwing flags rehearse too?Whats was discuss in the huddle before they picked up the flag?

[PaceAdvantage]

the greatest sports moment in history was Ken Brett's pine tar game against the yankees. he blasted a towering home run to give the Royals the lead and Billy Martin comes out of the dugout to protest the homer due to pine tar on his bat. i was on the right side of this one, but i can honestly say i never even heard of the rule in my life. they took the home run off the board and the Yankees went on to win, and i went into Churchill Downs in Las Vegas to cash my tickets with the biggest smile on my face.

Ken?

"Forget it, he's rolling"

[Ocala Mike]

It wasn't holding or pass interference at SRU Downs, where winners are paid.
Go, Cam!

[TheEdge07]

What about the pass interference call on the DB from the Pats on Greg Olson ball was 6ft over his head the refs CALLED IT.

[cj]

That wasn't holding in the end zone on the final play?

The ref was right there and he threw the flag...and then he picked it up?

I am starting to believe the whizz about the fixed games.

Once the ball is in the air, I don't believe they call holding, it has to be interference. Holding is almost always described as "before the pass".

In any case, it was still interference.

[KidCapper]

the greatest sports moment in history was Ken Brett's pine tar game against the yankees. he blasted a towering home run to give the Royals the lead and Billy Martin comes out of the dugout to protest the homer due to pine tar on his bat. i was on the right side of this one, but i can honestly say i never even heard of the rule in my life. they took the home run off the board and the Yankees went on to win, and i went into Churchill Downs in Las Vegas to cash my tickets with the biggest smile on my face.

Don't tell George.....but little brother Ken is stealing some of his glory here. :)

[thaskalos]

Look at the pic, theres two defenders right there. Its pretty much a "hail mary", with that much time left, they never call on that. But the refs were calling bs all night right from the start. On 3rd down twice in a row they called "hands to the face" on carolina...both guys barely brushed the mask.....practically giving NE a Td until Riddley fumbled. There were bad calls though for both sides, they only let these guys play during the playoffs, when the calls drop by a third. Why are there hardly ever penalties during the playoffs and especially during the SB? Its so bad that people look for flags like in this case....it does not matter that there are two guys right there and one (defensive guy) has a clear shot at the ball. That pic shows hes never going to catch that in a million years whether hes free or not...it makes the point for a non call. How is that a good pass with a chance to be caught by the offensive player? Its like 3 yards short. That picture makes the case for no penalty. This is what they probably saw on tape. All these pass interferance calls are what makes the game suck and it should be changed..(the college rule on this is better)...teams that are behind just start throwing the ball up in the air praying for a call...it happens in every other game.....thats when its "rigged"...its turned into the NPL or national pussy league. If he was open and someone runs over and grabs him, yeah ok, but theres two defenders right there. If teams count on winning this way, of course they going to get burned.....how about playing good before the last 2 minutes...when you have to hope for the refs "miracle call"?
It is obvious that you didn't watch the game, Burnsy.

If you HAD watched the game...then you would have seen that the holding on Gronkowski started at about the point where the ball was intercepted...and that he was pushed back by the linebacker, to the point that you see on the picture.

If Gronkowski is not held and pushed back...then he is right there with the guy who intercepted the ball...and then, who knows what happens?

It was clearly a blown call by the refs...IMO. One of the worst I've ever seen.

[Relwob Owner]

It is obvious that you didn't watch the game, Burnsy.

If you HAD watched the game...then you would have seen that the holding on Gronkowski started at about the point where the ball was intercepted...and that he was pushed back by the linebacker, to the point that you see on the picture.

If Gronkowski is not held and pushed back...then he is right there with the guy who intercepted the ball...and then, who knows what happens?

It was clearly a blown call by the refs...IMO. One of the worst I've ever seen.


Exactly. Gruden and Tirico were joined by a rules official after the game, who tried to say that the ball was uncatchable and I believe Gruden did a good job of showing that the ball ultimately landed where the contact began.

[Quagmire]

Once the ball is in the air, I don't believe they call holding, it has to be interference. Holding is almost always described as "before the pass".

In any case, it was still interference.

That's true the usual call when the pass is in the air is interference because it's a bigger penalty but I've seen defensive holding called before on passes that were uncatchable. I can't remember what game it was last week but the refs called holding on a DB when the pass landed a good 5 yards out of bounds.

[lamboguy]

Don't tell George.....but little brother Ken is stealing some of his glory here. :)
his brother was a pitcher, i mix everything up these days!

[Greyfox]

That wasn't holding in the end zone on the final play?

The ref was right there and he threw the flag...and then he picked it up?

I am starting to believe the whizz about the fixed games.

It was clearly pass interference.

The flag was thrown but the refs ruled that the receiver had no chance of catching the ball even if he wasn't interfered with.
I don't know NFL rules well enough to comment further except it seemed strange.

[Robert Fischer]

here you go

Start of the infraction (note location of receiver):
http://www.fotoshack.us/fotos/67725pats1.jpg

Where the receiver ended up at the end.
http://www.fotoshack.us/fotos/38296pats2.jpg



I don't know if it's holding or pass interference. Not an a expert on that ruling.

Should be one of the two.

The defender first hit the receiver where the ball eventually landed, and pushed him to the back of the endzone.

[thaskalos]

here you go

Start of the infraction (note location of receiver):
http://www.fotoshack.us/fotos/67725pats1.jpg

Where the receiver ended up at the end.
http://www.fotoshack.us/fotos/38296pats2.jpg

Robert...I think that you have a future up in the booth. :)

[cj]

That's true the usual call when the pass is in the air is interference because it's a bigger penalty but I've seen defensive holding called before on passes that were uncatchable. I can't remember what game it was last week but the refs called holding on a DB when the pass landed a good 5 yards out of bounds.

Just saw the rule on ESPN...throwing a pass ends any calls of defensive holding or illegal contact against a receiver.

[thaskalos]

Just saw the rule on ESPN...throwing a pass ends any calls of defensive holding or illegal contact against a receiver.

And I just saw the video of the ESPN rules official, talking to Gruden and Tirico in the booth after the game.

The man made no sense at all.

[Relwob Owner]

And I just saw the video of the ESPN rules official, talking to Gruden and Tirico in the booth after the game.

The man made no sense at all.


He didn't and Gruden made him look like a fool

[thaskalos]

He didn't and Gruden made him look like a fool

I didn't even know that the video of him existed until you mentioned it. :ThmbUp:

The man was blabbering like a politician... :)

[Robert Fischer]

Robert...I think that you have a future up in the booth. :)

I have to improve my arrow drawing before they will even consider.

I didn't even know that the video of him existed until you mentioned it. :ThmbUp:

The man was blabbering like a politician... :)

:D That's exactly what he is.
We're lucky we get to see Gruden challenge him.

[kingfin66]

Don't tell George.....but little brother Ken is stealing some of his glory here. :)

Actually, Ken was the older brother :) :)

[KidCapper]

Actually, Ken was the older brother :) :)


That's right.. :bang: George was the youngest of the 4 brothers.. Thanks kingfin66. lol

[Stillriledup]

I believe a Hail Mary is a very long forward pass, made in desperation....if so, you are incorrect

It was a long pass and it was desperate times, it was the last play of the game and they had to have the pass be complete for the game to continue...so yeah, i would say that reeked of desperation.

Don't you?

[Stillriledup]

So wait, now we have still photos of this one particular play? What about a still photo of every play in the game, do we know for sure that the O line wasnt holding on the final play? Do we know for sure that all the other penalties during the game were the correct calls? Do we know for sure that Brady's Offensive line didnt hold one time during the night that didnt get called?

Or, are we just going to focus on the play that WE want to focus on?

[Greyfox]

Or, are we just going to focus on the play that WE want to focus on?

This play is being focussed on because a flag was thrown and nothing came of it.
It appears that a call should have been made.
The Ref who threw the flag clearly saw the interference.

[Stillriledup]

This play is being focussed on because a flag was thrown and nothing came of it.
It appears that a call should have been made.
The Ref who threw the flag clearly saw the interference.

So you're saying that if no flag was thrown, nobody would be talking about this play today?

This was only a controversial play because the flag was mistakenly dropped?

I applaud the refs for "Getting it right", they ought to be commended for letting the players decide the game on the field instead of them deciding the winner.

[Greyfox]

So you're saying that if no flag was thrown, nobody would be talking about this play today?

This was only a controversial play because the flag was mistakenly dropped?

I applaud the refs for "Getting it right", they ought to be commended for letting the players decide the game on the field instead of them deciding the winner.

If no flag was thrown, less people would be talking about it.



Whether the refs got it right or not is another matter.
Clearly pass interference was involved.
I don't know the N.F.L. rule book well enough to say the refs got it right.

[Stillriledup]

If no flag was thrown, less people would be talking about it.



Whether the refs got it right or not is another matter.
Clearly pass interference was involved.
I don't know the N.F.L. rule book well enough to say the refs got it right.

If you're followed the NFL for decades, and i know you have, you know that certain things are "let go". One of those things is what is essentially a jump ball on the last play of the game. One of the other things is offensive holding. They want to protect their QBs health, which you can't argue with. There's zero chance that Tom Brady and his boys didnt get the benefit of the doubt on at least one situation during the game that could have been a penalty per the rule book. But they didnt. They didnt call that holding penalty on the O line...probably more than once during the game. You can't scream and yell about a call that you werent ever getting when your health depends on the refs looking the other way when your O lineman are taclking the pass rushers.

[thaskalos]

If you're followed the NFL for decades, and i know you have, you know that certain things are "let go". One of those things is what is essentially a jump ball on the last play of the game. One of the other things is offensive holding. They want to protect their QBs health, which you can't argue with. There's zero chance that Tom Brady and his boys didnt get the benefit of the doubt on at least one situation during the game that could have been a penalty per the rule book. But they didnt. They didnt call that holding penalty on the O line...probably more than once during the game. You can't scream and yell about a call that you werent ever getting when your health depends on the refs looking the other way when your O lineman are taclking the pass rushers.
I don't know about you, SRU...but I sure didn't see a "jump ball" on that final play.

[Greyfox]

I don't know about you, SRU...but I sure didn't see a "jump ball" on that final play.

Nor I.

[Stillriledup]

I don't know about you, SRU...but I sure didn't see a "jump ball" on that final play.

It was a hail mary type of play, it was a play where tons of players were in the end zone, its not ever getting called, ever. They're not calling PI on a last second play like that, they never have and they never will.

[Quagmire]

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/20452480/replacement-refs-tell-inside-the-nfl-they-were-told-not-to-call-pass-interference-on-hail-marys

Here's NFL spokesman Greg Aiello's statement on the matter of pass interference calls on Hail Marys.

"Officials have long been instructed not to call pass interference on 'Hail Mary,' jump ball plays (at end of halves or end of game) unless it is blatant as it was in the Seattle-Green Bay game. Offensive pass interference should have been called on that play. It was more than incidental bumping and jostling."

[Greyfox]

It was a hail mary type of play, it was a play where tons of players were in the end zone, its not ever getting called, ever. They're not calling PI on a last second play like that, they never have and they never will.

That was not my idea of a hail Mary.
The pass was of medium length specifically intended for Gronkowski.

[Stillriledup]

That was not my idea of a hail Mary.
The pass was of medium length specifically intended for Gronkowski.

specifically intended for a player with at least 5 DBs within 3 feet isnt my idea of anything more than a desperation pass. Completing a 25 or 30 yard pass into massive traffic when the defense knows for a fact that the play is a 25/30 yard pass into the end zone isnt going to be completed unless a miracle happens. These types of plays are extremely rare, you dont call any penalty on that type of play.

Also, what's to say that the defenders knew the 'unwritten rule' that no PI ever gets called on these last second plays and therefore played the receiver a little more aggressively than he would have in another circumstance.

It would be unfair to the defender to be inconsistent ....its like calling a runner safe at 2nd on the 'neighborhood play'.

[Greyfox]

specifically intended for a player with at least 5 DBs within 3 feet isnt my idea of anything more than a desperation pass. .

Your last several comments are leading me to conclude that you never saw the play or the game.
The pictures on the previous page of this thread clearly show there were not 5 DBs within 3 feet of Gronkowski.
The pass was not a Hail Mary.
I'm not going to disagree you with you anymore, because I think that you are just posting for the sake of posting and making stuff up.

[JustRalph]

I just watched the replay. Didn't see it live. This ball was intercepted well in front of Gronk. Right?

Is there an argument that he could have moved in front of the guy who intercepted it?

[Relwob Owner]

It was a long pass and it was desperate times, it was the last play of the game and they had to have the pass be complete for the game to continue...so yeah, i would say that reeked of desperation.

Don't you?


It wasnt a very long pass....just admit you are wrong, its not hard to do

[Quagmire]

The Pats were at Carolina's 18. This wasn't a hail mary.

[Relwob Owner]

Your last several comments are leading me to conclude that you never saw the play or the game.
The pictures on the previous page of this thread clearly show there were not 5 DBs within 3 feet of Gronkowski.
The pass was not a Hail Mary.
I'm not going to disagree you with you anymore, because I think that you are just posting for the sake of posting and making stuff up.


Bingo. It is maddening.

[burnsy]

I just watched the replay. Didn't see it live. This ball was intercepted well in front of Gronk. Right?

Is there an argument that he could have moved in front of the guy who intercepted it?

No, you are dead right...SRU is right too. Hes wrong about the "Hail Mary" but there was double coverage and the pass sucked...it was at least 3 yards short. The defensive player was the only one that had a shot of catching that pass and it was the last play...it was one of the only calls they got right last night. The reciever would have had to run through the defender just to get it....even if he could get there.

[NJ Stinks]

I can't see the refs picking this flag up if the game was played last night in Foxboro.

[Stillriledup]

The only reason the Pats were "in the game" to begin with was that the refs were on their back the entire game. The refs kept them in the game, and now they want "one more call" to win?

Maybe if they didnt put themselves in a position to need a desperation hail mary at the end of the game, they wouldnt have had to cry like 5 year olds that they didnt win a game. They've won 150 out of the last 200 games, that's about 75%, so they lose a game and act like crybabies because they didnt win every game they play.

[Relwob Owner]

The only reason the Pats were "in the game" to begin with was that the refs were on their back the entire game. The refs kept them in the game, and now they want "one more call" to win?

Maybe if they didnt put themselves in a position to need a desperation hail mary at the end of the game, they wouldnt have had to cry like 5 year olds that they didnt win a game. They've won 150 out of the last 200 games, that's about 75%, so they lose a game and act like crybabies because they didnt win every game they play.


I know you keep saying it was a hail mary to get attention and I am giving it to you. You are 1000 percent wrong about an 18 yard pass being a hail mary. Look at Flutie's pass when he was at Boston College...THAT was a hail mary. Real men admit when they are wrong. Children don't and find ways to continue to do things to get attention......Stillchildup would fall into the latter in my opinion.

[cj's dad]

One of the worst calls I have ever seen. I am not a Pats or Bradys fan, but Gronk was interfered with, little question about that. As my friend the "Whiz" would say it looks like a boat job to me, and I have no dog in the fight.

[wiffleball whizz]

One of the worst calls I have ever seen. I am not a Pats or Bradys fan, but Gronk was interfered with, little question about that. As my friend the "Whiz" would say it looks like a boat job to me, and I have no dog in the fight.


Hahahahahahahahaha look for the whizz at f and m this week......

[cj's dad]

Hahahahahahahahaha look for the whizz at f and m this week......

Looking forward to it !!

[Stillriledup]

I know you keep saying it was a hail mary to get attention and I am giving it to you. You are 1000 percent wrong about an 18 yard pass being a hail mary. Look at Flutie's pass when he was at Boston College...THAT was a hail mary. Real men admit when they are wrong. Children don't and find ways to continue to do things to get attention......Stillchildup would fall into the latter in my opinion.

So now you're a 5th grader intentionally misspelling posters names? Isnt that what they do in 3rd grade?

To me, a hail mary is a play on the last play of the game where the QB essentially needs a prayer to be answered to complete the pass. The reason that the length of the pass is inconsequential is because the defense knew exactly what was coming, it was going to be a pass to the end zone that needed a prayer to be answered to be complete. The Panthers are a professional football team with a top defense and they knew what was coming, to me, that's a play you're going to need extreme luck to complete. A prayer, if you will.

[RXB]

When a team has to take a shot at the end zone, a play from the 18-yard line in the NFL has ~20% chance of becoming a TD. Hardly what could be described as a Hail Mary prayer.

[RXB]

Here's the graph. http://www.advancednflstats.com/2012/09/hail-mary-probabilities.html

However, now that I read it again, it lists TD conversion rates for plays in the final eight seconds but doesn't necessarily say that it was restricted to situations where only one play was attempted; might have had time for two tries in a minority of cases from approximately that distance.

So the success rate in a one-shot-only scenario is probably lower, which fits in line more with other data that would suggest a success rate of closer to 12-15% from that distance. Still, not anything like a very low probability Hail Mary from the 40-yard line.

Also have attached a screenshot showing Kuechly clearly clutching Gronkowski only about two yards from where the ball is intercepted, well before the DB actually catches the ball. It's understandable that they don't want to call a ticky-tack penalty on an 18-yard gamble but this seems like a rather generous interpretation of the "uncatchable" exception to the PI rule.

[Relwob Owner]

So now you're a 5th grader intentionally misspelling posters names? Isnt that what they do in 3rd grade?

To me, a hail mary is a play on the last play of the game where the QB essentially needs a prayer to be answered to complete the pass. The reason that the length of the pass is inconsequential is because the defense knew exactly what was coming, it was going to be a pass to the end zone that needed a prayer to be answered to be complete. The Panthers are a professional football team with a top defense and they knew what was coming, to me, that's a play you're going to need extreme luck to complete. A prayer, if you will.


....and you would be wrong. Just admit it.

As far as the name calling and that being what a 3rd grader would do, consider that a life lesson that you get what you give.

[Stillriledup]

....and you would be wrong. Just admit it.

As far as the name calling and that being what a 3rd grader would do, consider that a life lesson that you get what you give.

One thing that you can count on with me is to be professional in my debates and not resort to 3rd grade antics and name calling because i don't agree with a poster.

As far as getting what i give, i was just making my opinion known and you didnt agree, so you resorted to 3rd grade tactics instead of respectfully disagreeing.

[Robert Fischer]

....and you would be wrong. Just admit it.

I think it's great that grown men can see the same exact thing and come to opposing views about the reality.

It can be frustrating in a lot of areas, but something like horses or business it can be a wonderful thing.

I have no aptitude for betting football, so there's pretty much no point in me sweating the small stuff in football debates.

[Relwob Owner]

One thing that you can count on with me is to be professional in my debates and not resort to 3rd grade antics and name calling because i don't agree with a poster.

As far as getting what i give, i was just making my opinion known and you didnt agree, so you resorted to 3rd grade tactics instead of respectfully disagreeing.


Not really...you post inaccurate statements and intentionally absurd opinions and snap judgements in order to get reactions from people. That is as far from professional debating as possible.

What a hail mary is does not fall into the opinion category. It is a fact. Look it up on Wikipedia. It is a VERY LONG FORWARD PASS. Not an 18 yard one. You are wrong and you always will be about it and you should just admit it like a "professional debater" would.

[Stillriledup]

Not really...you post inaccurate statements and intentionally absurd opinions and snap judgements in order to get reactions from people. That is as far from professional debating as possible.

What a hail mary is does not fall into the opinion category. It is a fact. Look it up on Wikipedia. It is a VERY LONG FORWARD PASS. Not an 18 yard one. You are wrong and you always will be about it and you should just admit it like a "professional debater" would.

Those 1) inaccurate statements 2) intentionally absurd opinions and 3) snap judgments are all one thing. Your own opinion. If you respectfully disagree, i would appreciate that. If you don't want to read my "snap judgments' put me on ignore, i'm pretty sure that would solve all your problems.

[Relwob Owner]

Those 1) inaccurate statements 2) intentionally absurd opinions and 3) snap judgments are all one thing. Your own opinion. If you respectfully disagree, i would appreciate that. If you don't want to read my "snap judgments' put me on ignore, i'm pretty sure that would solve all your problems.


Ditto. Plus, why waste your time with me when you have so many new threads you could start over and over and over and over again about how racing and football are fixed? Those never get old...... :bang:

Disappointed to see that a Professional Debater such as yourself still can't admit he was wrong about the hail mary. There have been many times I have been wrong on here and instead of ignoring it or dancing around it, I just said I was wrong. Kind of sad that you cant do that.

I have been sucked into your vortex and now I will leave. Good luck to ya.

[Stillriledup]

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[Stillriledup]

Just saw a 'cam newton' commercial on NFL network and noticed something that I always look for when athletes are in commercials, and that is a jersey hanging in the background with the players name on it. To me this means the nfl realizes not everyone knows who is in the commercial. It's a nice 'tell' if you know what to look for.