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TheEdge07
11-10-2013, 08:47 PM
Has any member made a huge score because he/she was told the fix was in?

i have back in 1982..

wiffleball whizz
11-10-2013, 08:53 PM
So many different avenues this thread can take

Owning a horse and "not going" with the horse and going with another is being in on the fix


In short term somebody took it out in wheelbarrel in the ram game today

Just think of the refs and totals in NCAA sports.......a license to print money

TheEdge07
11-10-2013, 09:09 PM
If you have share the story...

thaskalos
11-10-2013, 09:27 PM
If you have share the story...
Shouldn't you share YOUR story first?

That's how the threads work...no?

The original poster sets the table...and THEN we come in.

wiffleball whizz
11-10-2013, 10:04 PM
Shouldn't you share YOUR story first?

That's how the threads work...no?

The original poster sets the table...and THEN we come in.


Very valid point

ronsmac
11-11-2013, 12:53 AM
About a year before C-Town closed , pre-slots era. I'm at Pimlico looking at that evenings Charles Town races and out of the blue a groom from a Maryland barn asks me if I'm going there that evening. I tell him that I am. He says his barn has a maiden that's been layed off almost 2 yrs that can't lose . The horse was too old to run in a maiden race in Maryland, not sure if that rule still exists today. His prior form would crush at C-Town but that layoff looked bad to me, he assured me , that there would be no worries. I bet with confidence and the horse aired, the price was only 3-1 but he won like a 1/2 shot.

iceknight
11-11-2013, 02:19 AM
Has any member made a huge score because he/she was told the fix was in?

i have back in 1982.. Yes, 1998 Belmont. I had in from sources that Real Quiet would lose. Cashed a lot by betting on Victory Gallop.

appistappis
11-11-2013, 02:24 AM
ummmmmmmmmmm, errrrrrrrrrrr......maybe.

therussmeister
11-11-2013, 03:31 AM
There have been three times I have known about "fixes" (on going, not a one time shot), but all of them I've figured out on my own. Two of them I consider legitimate and legal, the other - not so much. Of course I cashed. Repeatedly.

1) One very hot summer, I noticed an active trainer, typically ran at least three horses per day, would give some of his horses a sponge bath with ice water after saddling them. Those that got the sponge bath ran about 75% in-the-money. Those that didn't ran about 5% in-the-money. I later found a trainer that was getting the same results with what appeared to be rubbing alcohol.

2) When the Racing Form started putting blinkers info in the PPs, I noticed that apparently any indication of blinkers on or off was based on my local track's own data, and a horse shipping in could add blinkers without it being announced as a change of equipment. I noticed a few out-of-town trainers that took advantage of this by darkening form at their local track by running without blinkers, then shipping in and running with the unannounced blinker change.

3) I found a trainer with a good win percentage despite almost never winning with a favorite. I knew this trainer often bet, I'd seen him at the windows many times. I noticed that when he had a horse I thought was live the jockey would glance at the tote board at the last available moment, in a route race he can see the tote as they are loading, but in a sprint he can't see the tote after the post parade. I determined that 3/1 was the minimum acceptable odds to go for the win. Most of his winners lower than 3/1 came in sprint races when the odds dropped after the post parade.

thaskalos
11-11-2013, 04:22 AM
I initially thought of not telling this story, because it doesn't necessarily involve what we would normally call a "fix" -- and I didn't benefit from it...at least not monetarily. I will tell it anyway though, because it taught me a valuable lesson...and I hope that it will teach you a valuable lesson as well.

I had a friend for many years who was the owner of a restaurant close to Arlington Park during the 80s and the 90s. My friend was an avid gambler and a very likable guy...and he became well-acquainted with more than a few of the Arlington jockeys of that era...some of whom would also patronize his place of business.

I happened to be at his restaurant one summer night, when one of Arlington's best known jockeys walked into the place, and motioned to my friend to join him at one of the remote tables. After about 10 minutes, the jockey left...and my friend joined me at my table, visibly excited. When I asked him what had happened...he told me that the jockey had given him $2,000 -- along with instructions to bet the money to win on a particular horse that this jockey was engaged to ride the next day. "The horse can't lose"...my friend said the jockey had told him.

I didn't sleep very peacefully that particular night...because this was the type of "inside information" that you seldom encounter. Does a tip get any more believable than to have the jockey of the horse give you that kind of money to bet on it?

My friend and I went to the track together the next day...and we wagered moderately on this horse ourselves. It went off at 3/1, as I recall, and it finished 7th in a field of 9...with no visible excuse whatsoever.

I have ignored all types of inside information ever since.

PS...

The reason I didn't name the jockey is because he had a long and distinguished riding career -- not only at Arlington but at other major tracks as well -- and he also served as a racing official at various racetracks after his retirement.

lamboguy
11-11-2013, 04:22 AM
i once had a friend that used to move money in college basketball. one day he tells me they have the starting point guard for Providence College.

the line was originally Providence by 22. i got down $1000 +17. i went to the Providence Civic Center to watch the game.

the player that was in the tank starts the game off by double dribbling, then he lets the other side in for an easy layup. he puts up brick after brick, and fouls the opposing side with about 7 minutes to go in the half Providence is in the one and one. he goes to the line twice and misses the front end of the one and one both times. at that point Providence is losing the game by 20 points outright. Dave Gavitt is the coach for Providence, he walks down to the end of the bench and moves his players over. he points his finger at the point guard and takes him out of the game, sits him down at the end of the bench.

that player never plays another second for the rest of the game. Providence comes out for the second half and goes on a 20-4 run. Providence winds up smoking the other team by over 30 points. my $1100 is now gone but never to be forgotten.

shouldacoulda
11-11-2013, 07:13 AM
The only way Charity can lose is if it's hit by lightning.

Come on now. They don't really fix races, do they? :lol:
They don't rig the stock market either. :lol:
I'm also expecting Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny for dinner tonight.

TheEdge07
11-11-2013, 07:56 AM
Back in 1982 this hof jockey very well known in ny was dating my mothers best friend..My dad mom and her best friend with (i will call him curly) all went to dinner in the city .During dinner Curly had told my parents and his girlfriend drive out to the track tomorrow for the last race im riding 3 horse but hes has no chance.He explain to watch the post parade and watch him carefully.He went further to explain to watch his whip...depending how many times he tapped his horse with the stick that was then winner..We drove to Belmont for the last race and watched Curly in post parade.His girlfriend yelled out Curly whos the winner that was the indication we were there..Curly stood up in his irons bounced up a few times and gently tapped his horse six times.....

The rest was history...#6 wins pays $43.60...

My parents and his girlfriend along with Curly all went to dinner after the races.Ill never forget the qoute Curly had told my dad that night..

"happens more then we think"

sammy the sage
11-11-2013, 08:41 AM
yes...maiden claimer's in S.Cal circuit...3 different trainers....different times...Horse ML 10/1 or worse...no way you can pick off the form or known info...go off at 3/1 or less...win like a 3/5 shot...

no longer have that connection...R.I.P....and no not naming ANY names or races...

but stuff happens...just take when Dale E. Jr. won the firecracker 400 after SR. died at the 500 that year...

Never been a restrictor plate race like that before or since...get 2 laps down...yet can go 3 wide BY yourself and pass w/impunity...Banker buddy of mine cashed on that BIG....

illinoisbred
11-11-2013, 09:24 AM
Amusing tale Thaskalos..you've really got me guessing on the jockey. I too have a story that I really didn't want to share but there is a moral to this story. Years ago, one day at Arlington with a friend who happened to be a very good friend to a local trainer. I'm not going to name names but the trainer was rather ordinary back then and now one of the better winning trainers on our circuit. My friend says... I figured you'd like to meet trainer X so I invited him to come up to our seats before the races. Trainer X appears...pleasantries exchanged when my friend asks...what about your So and So in the 3rd..does he have a shot? So and So was a dreadful maiden that had never run a lick in any of his races. Trainer x responds...So and So isn't much but I've just learned(unbeknowst to the betting public) that the jockey is going to announce his retirement at the race's completion. The guys usually don't let us trainers in on things and can't say if they've got anything "planned". The race comes up..the gate opens..the leading rider at the meet and on the speed and favorite in the race from the #1 hole,falls off right out of the gate. So and So isn't doing much running as usual but turning for home, the Red Sea parts..a few running down tight near the rail..the rest out toward the crown..except for So and So. A charging he comes... to miss by a 1/2 length,finishing 2nd. The moral I guess,despite the best choreographed plans(if there indeed was a "plan"), things can still go awry.

slihawk
11-11-2013, 10:01 AM
I'm getting on a plane so I got to be Quick

After I retired I got a job as a teller at the local track having moved from North to South (I'll let u guess which track)
After the first year they moved my window to the picnic area (being a retired Detective they liked having me out there)
The jockeys quarters was a jump over the fence or a psst psst with a $20 sticking up from the fence.
I would always put a couple on the horse myself. The results were mixed.
On the last day of meet, all the jocks were betting on a hopeless 20-1 in the last race with a jock that won a total of two races the whole meet.
All day long psst psst another $20 Hmmm
I didn't tell a sole and bet my highest amount to win ever (which was a $100)
Well I would love to see a replay of that race today...the horse went wire to wire NEVER being challenged (I quess the other jocks were afraid he'd fall off if he used his whip). The horse ended up going off at maybe 6-1 or so.
I never told this story but its true.

Dan Montilion
11-11-2013, 04:31 PM
1976 at Bay Meadows, all of 16 years of age. I helped a rather large and gimpy groom up and down some stairs. We became friendly, he would give me passes for parking and entrance. Mid Oct. he shows me what I now know as a condition book. Tells me "Right Top Thanksgiving Day." Fast forward, Right Top is in on 11-25-76 Thanksgiving. James Ryan trained, James Felton the rider 35-1 win. Liked the winner of the first Hacienda Heights D.D. came back $400 plus. My father had had bypass surgery a few weeks earlier and I was on my own at the track. My uncle was a card dealer at Artichoke Joe's and had all contacts I needed to get down while likely committing a misdemeanor. Any way Dad gave me $70 $10 bang, bang DD. 30W 20P 10S. I made a similar wager albeit not quite as much. My knees where shaking so much and I was frankly a bit scared carrying the cash. Jumped into my Ford Courier and drove the cash home (San Mateo to Redwood city) then went back in time to be th fourth. Stathy with Rudy Campas and 37.20. I do not believe anything nefarious was going on here. Just a barn that new they had a bet. Right Top did well in Starter races the rest of the year and next.


I was working as a gas Jockey is 1979 in foster city. Guy limps in with two flats on his truck. Pleads with me to help him. I do, he gives me a season pass to BM. Quarter horse meet and suggests I bet his horse next week. Trainer was Alvin Caddin, Horse Black Ogre, Rider Luke Myles, Paid ironically 35-1. Again doubt any fix, just right place at the etc.. etc..

wisconsin
11-11-2013, 04:39 PM
1976 at Bay Meadows, all of 16 years of age. I helped a rather large and gimpy groom up and down some stairs. We became friendly, he would give me passes for parking and entrance. Mid Oct. he shows me what I now know as a condition book. Tells me "Right Top Thanksgiving Day." Fast forward, Right Top is in on 11-25-76 Thanksgiving. James Ryan trained, James Felton the rider 35-1 win. Liked the winner of the first Hacienda Heights D.D. came back $400 plus. My father had had bypass surgery a few weeks earlier and I was on my own at the track. My uncle was a card dealer at Artichoke Joe's and had all contacts I needed to get down while likely committing a misdemeanor. Any way Dad gave me $70 $10 bang, bang DD. 30W 20P 10S. I made a similar wager albeit not quite as much. My knees where shaking so much and I was frankly a bit scared carrying the cash. Jumped into my Ford Courier and drove the cash home (San Mateo to Redwood city) then went back in time to be th fourth. Stathy with Rudy Campas and 37.20. I do not believe anything nefarious was going on here. Just a barn that new they had a bet. Right Top did well in Starter races the rest of the year and next.


I was working as a gas Jockey is 1979 in foster city. Guy limps in with two flats on his truck. Pleads with me to help him. I do, he gives me a season pass to BM. Quarter horse meet and suggests I bet his horse next week. Trainer was Alvin Caddin, Horse Black Ogre, Rider Luke Myles, Paid ironically 35-1. Again doubt any fix, just right place at the etc.. etc..


Just love this stuff! :ThmbUp:

PaceAdvantage
11-11-2013, 05:51 PM
So it's true what they say...you are a retread...I should have listened to those who told me, but I turned a blind eye...why, I don't know... :lol:

Back in 1982 this hof jockey very well known in ny was dating my mothers best friend..My dad mom and her best friend with (i will call him curly) all went to dinner in the city .During dinner Curly had told my parents and his girlfriend drive out to the track tomorrow for the last race im riding 3 horse but hes has no chance.He explain to watch the post parade and watch him carefully.He went further to explain to watch his whip...depending how many times he tapped his horse with the stick that was then winner..We drove to Belmont for the last race and watched Curly in post parade.His girlfriend yelled out Curly whos the winner that was the indication we were there..Curly stood up in his irons bounced up a few times and gently tapped his horse six times.....

The rest was history...#6 wins pays $43.60...

My parents and his girlfriend along with Curly all went to dinner after the races.Ill never forget the qoute Curly had told my dad that night..

"happens more then we think"

jk3521
11-11-2013, 06:24 PM
I remember way back I'd hear people at the rail whispering to watch a certain jockey in the post parade and when he would motion a certain way, he'd be giving out the winner. I didn't really believe it , just trackside gossip. :cool:

Tape Reader
11-11-2013, 07:51 PM
Fifty-years ago. Growing up in Brooklyn there were a million kids in your crowd. One friend worked bussing tables in the “Jewish Alps” (Catskills). An owner/driver at Yonkers took a liking to the kid and told him “After the warm up, if I turn towards the stands, I’m going with the horse. If I turn away, I’m not. Carloads of us would go to Yonkers when this horse was running. He won most of the time when signaled. His name was “Mighty Indian.”



Another kid was an apprentice jockey at Aqueduct. He knew of a first time starter that was going to win. I forget the name of the horse but we were all there. The horse was 10-1 on the ML and as soon as the daily double windows closed (10-MTP in those days) the horse got bet down to 5-1. Believe me, this was not our money. The horse won.

wiffleball whizz
11-11-2013, 08:28 PM
Just imagine the power u have as a driver knowing your "going dead" in a race.....

thespaah
11-11-2013, 11:14 PM
I was working as a groom for a trainer who had a small stable at a training farm on RT 33 in central NJ.
He had a couple of catch drives one night at meadowlands.
He told me to give him 10 bucks and he'd come back with lots more.
Turns out he and a couple other guys had $1,000 on an exacta involving my boss' horse and another. It paid about $100.
He got back from the track and handed me $50. In 1979 to me that was a ton of money.
I would imagine one could surmise the fix was in on that particular race.

JustRalph
11-12-2013, 01:30 AM
yes...maiden claimer's in S.Cal circuit...3 different trainers....different times...Horse ML 10/1 or worse...no way you can pick off the form or known info...go off at 3/1 or less...win like a 3/5 shot...

no longer have that connection...R.I.P....and no not naming ANY names or races...

but stuff happens...just take when Dale E. Jr. won the firecracker 400 after SR. died at the 500 that year...

Never been a restrictor plate race like that before or since...get 2 laps down...yet can go 3 wide BY yourself and pass w/impunity...Banker buddy of mine cashed on that BIG....

That race has been the subject of many theories. I don't buy any of them. Getting 8-10 jocks to fix a race is one thing, but 42 other drivers and crew chiefs is another.....

NJ Stinks
11-12-2013, 02:35 AM
I got a phone call from a good friend (let's call him Joe) one day. He told me that the father of girl he was dating told him that a horse the guy owned part of was a sure thing at the Meadowlands that night. (Thoroughbred race.) Joe asked me if I could go to Garden State and make some bets for him and a couple of his buddies. (Joe and friends had something else going that night and couldn't get to the Meadowlands.) I said I could. The problem was I didn't have $1,200 laying around the house and that's how much they wanted to bet. (My bank had already closed for the day and I wasn't going to get a cash advance at the track for this.)

Wound up scrapping up around $350. I called Joe back and he gave me their bets to make - win, place, and exactas.

Actually, I think this happened around this time of year as it was a cold rainy night at the Big M and the track was sloppy. Anyway, I couldn't wait to see the PP's for myself since all I saw in a newspaper was that this horse had a 10-1 morning line in a 7 horse field and the guy in the paper didn't pick him in his top 3.

The horse looked dreadful in the PP's. I was sure the horse would go off higher than 10-1 and it did occur to me that I could at least cover the place bets myself. I mean - how much could this horse pay to place in a 7 horse field? Plus, the favorite looked like a cinch to at least place.... But in the end I decided I would rather root the horse home than not. So I made their bets and another $60 for myself. Long story short (too late! :) ) the tip horse rolls by the heavy favorite at the eighth pole (like the tip was the chalk!) and pays around $17.60. The exacta with the favorite holding second came back kind of light - maybe $28.

I had $40 to win on him and hit a $10 exacta. Really, it felt like stealing cashing those tickets....


But my wife was happy.... ;)

overthehill
11-12-2013, 02:50 AM
I cant resist chiming in here with some stories. around 1982 i was going to the races in new york every day and hanging out with the same group of guys on the second floor of the grandstand. one day i walk in and somebody tells me that they gave some first time starter out to the pinkertons. I look at the fist timer i had never heard of the trainer before bruce johnstone but angel cordero was riding and the filly is 6-1 in the morning line, on the board the filly is 14-1 and no one in my group bets it thinking its dead on the board. I put $30 on i and watch it cruise home by about 6 lengths. the filly's name is viva sec and it goes to win a grade stakes and gets sold for a seven figure amount.

One day at aqueduct we were in the saddling ring and one of the handlers went directly from saddling the horse to betting window we all followed him and bet his horse and collected on an 18-1 shot.

one of the guys used to to chart the exactas and there is a maiden filly race for two year olds and neil drysdale has a first timer in there from the 12 post. and way with a bout two minutes to go the guy charting the exactas starts screaming about how some exacta combinations with the 12 on top are absolutely getting bombed. sure enough the filly ends up winning for fun . her name is bold n determined the following year she ends up winning two legs of the triple crown for fillies and upsets Genuine Risk at Saratoga.

at the local otb there are guys who seem to know a few trainers and assistant trainers and they frequently get tips to run well. sometimes they win sometimes they dont, but usually they run pretty well. a couple of times they had tips on out of town horses who ended up running second to new york drop down shippers who were very short priced winners. the one i remember best was a guy told a friend of mine about some horse running at penn national, a track i have never bet. he said the horse a first time starter would win. neither my friend nor i bet the horse or the race but check the charts and sure enough the horse got up in the last strides to win by a nose at 6-1.

But the favorite story i heard about years after the fact from a relative of t a top new york who gambled all over the place. one day the jockey reached out to the guy and told him he was on 20-1 ml horse that he felt strongly was going to win. he asked him to bet $6000 for him but spread it out among a bunch of bookmakers. so the guy spent the whole day betting the horse with a couple of dozen bookmakers a couple of hundred with each of them. wheN this relative told me the story i remembered the horse because it looked like a perennial maiden running about ten bad races in a row and then suddenly it reversed form and won by about 10 lengths at 60-1! The relative bet a couple of thousand on the horse himself. I think after that a lot of bookies refused to pay more than 15-1 on a horse at least in new york.

sammy the sage
11-12-2013, 07:22 AM
That race has been the subject of many theories. I don't buy any of them. Getting 8-10 jocks to fix a race is one thing, but 42 other drivers and crew chiefs is another.....

nah..pretty easy..illegal car that's has NO restrictor plate while rest of field does...w/a BLIND man doing post race inspection... ;)

mountainman
11-12-2013, 11:22 AM
Horses with forms darkened to set up for a bet? Sure, many times. Outright fixes with other horses stiffed and the result preordained? Never.

Robert Goren
11-12-2013, 11:56 AM
Horses with forms darkened to set up for a bet? Sure, many times. Outright fixes with other horses stiffed and the result preordained? Never.These kind of bets were a staple of mine when I first started. Then there was the case where my dad got a couple of $40 winners on the same card from some people he gave directions to once. The story is a bit a long, but it makes you wonder. I still doubt the races was fixed, but I think the horses had a little help from a drug. They both ran kind of funny. When they moved on the far turn they looked a rabbit running, kind of hopping. I have seen horses run like that since but not very often. I was in college at the time and dirt poor. I scrape up $5 to bet on the first and bet $20 on the second.

Dan Montilion
11-12-2013, 12:44 PM
Horses with forms darkened to set up for a bet? Sure, many times. Outright fixes with other horses stiffed and the result preordained? Never.

Would tend to agree with Mountainman. Since 1989 I have been a full time player and I approach the game as if Mountainman's statement is law. However, on very, very rare ocasions I believe I have seen some questionable races. Names and paces will not be named but it was early in my full time career and at that time I was plying my trade in NoCal. It does not take out and out stiffs to set up a race. Participants are still gambling. Scenario, three likely pace horses in the race, if two take back and the other gets loose, huge advantage. Yes can still lose but do this enough and it will work. Best case is the same above scenario. This time two of the "boys" are on two of the speed and they just put the unsuspecting rider on a clear lead. The fewer are in the better.

Fingal
11-12-2013, 01:09 PM
Horses with forms darkened to set up for a bet? Sure, many times. Outright fixes with other horses stiffed and the result preordained? Never.

Same thing, occasionally through a friend ( former trainer's wife ) I may hear about someone with a hot firster or 2nd start maiden I'll give a second look, but never a true boat race with an established horse.

Besides, most hot tips turn cold after the race. And until they give me the money to bet 'em.......

horses4courses
11-12-2013, 02:09 PM
I tend to believe that fixed races are rare. Too many parties involved.
Are there people involved in the game that pull stunts from time to time?
Of course there are, and many of them are successful in their efforts.

Whether it is through performance enhancers, or hiding a horse's true ability until "the right time", we all know this type of thing goes on.
Knowing a horse is sitting on a big race after some lackluster performances is not cheating in itself, but is a form of deception. For instance, trainers who traditionally give their inexperienced horses at least a couple of "educational" runs before they are truly ready to win, don't suffer a loss of reputation.
There are highly respected trainers who do this often. It's part of the game.

It interests me that SF Bay Area racing has been mentioned in previous posts in this thread. Being based in Tahoe, and involved with race betting for years (including booking action before pari-mutuel wagering in NV), I have come across some instances of questionable races over the past 25 years. I have, also, known a few of the characters involved in these schemes. They all played various roles.

Some, but not all, of them involved jockey Ron Hansen. Remember the mysterious circumstances of his death in 1993? Case has never been solved, but chances are he wasn't murdered. Hansen had, however, been involved in some shady dealings. I know for a fact that a professional gambler experienced a large decrease in his income after Hansen's demise.
Take that for what you will.

Horse racing has never been, and never will be, completely honest and transparent. There will always be intangibles when attempting to forecast the outcome of any given race. That is not to say that race fixing is common.
I don't think that it is.

Insider knowledge of "favorable circumstances" for certain horses, is far more prevalent. It could be due to different factors - improved physical condition, favorable race conditions, or the more deceitful "masked ability".
When handicapping a race, it's an unknown factor that you have to be wary of as a possibility.
No one ever said it was easy...... ;)

usedtolovetvg
11-12-2013, 05:28 PM
I have been told many times that a fave and 2nd choice were no-goes and they did nothing. I have also been told that a horse had a big shot and he was a go. Those horses always put in a big effort but didn't always win. Once a long time ago a bunch of us claimed a harness horse on the OJC circuit in Canada. He had won for 18000 when we claimed him. We ran him back for 18k 10 days later. It was one of the later races and I went to Greenwood Raceway about a race early. As I got to the admission gate, a guy came staggering up to the gate dead drunk and fell into me. He was a happy drunk and apologized. He explained that he had a tip on a horse and was told it could not lose and he started to celebrate a bit early. I asked him the name of the horse and he told me my horses name. To get to the point, the horse won for fun @ 9-5 and my share of the purse was $750. He was claimed off of us. That was the one and only time I owned a horse. The drunk probably made more money than I did.

JustRalph
11-12-2013, 06:14 PM
I've been told about 3 races that were fixed at MNR. A part time trainer gave me "the scoop" he called it. All three times the horses went off the Fav.

None paid more than six bucks...........he acted like he was doing me such a favor......

thespaah
11-12-2013, 06:54 PM
I cant resist chiming in here with some stories. around 1982 i was going to the races in new york every day and hanging out with the same group of guys on the second floor of the grandstand. one day i walk in and somebody tells me that they gave some first time starter out to the pinkertons. I look at the fist timer i had never heard of the trainer before bruce johnstone but angel cordero was riding and the filly is 6-1 in the morning line, on the board the filly is 14-1 and no one in my group bets it thinking its dead on the board. I put $30 on i and watch it cruise home by about 6 lengths. the filly's name is viva sec and it goes to win a grade stakes and gets sold for a seven figure amount.

One day at aqueduct we were in the saddling ring and one of the handlers went directly from saddling the horse to betting window we all followed him and bet his horse and collected on an 18-1 shot.

one of the guys used to to chart the exactas and there is a maiden filly race for two year olds and neil drysdale has a first timer in there from the 12 post. and way with a bout two minutes to go the guy charting the exactas starts screaming about how some exacta combinations with the 12 on top are absolutely getting bombed. sure enough the filly ends up winning for fun . her name is bold n determined the following year she ends up winning two legs of the triple crown for fillies and upsets Genuine Risk at Saratoga.

at the local otb there are guys who seem to know a few trainers and assistant trainers and they frequently get tips to run well. sometimes they win sometimes they dont, but usually they run pretty well. a couple of times they had tips on out of town horses who ended up running second to new york drop down shippers who were very short priced winners. the one i remember best was a guy told a friend of mine about some horse running at penn national, a track i have never bet. he said the horse a first time starter would win. neither my friend nor i bet the horse or the race but check the charts and sure enough the horse got up in the last strides to win by a nose at 6-1.

But the favorite story i heard about years after the fact from a relative of t a top new york who gambled all over the place. one day the jockey reached out to the guy and told him he was on 20-1 ml horse that he felt strongly was going to win. he asked him to bet $6000 for him but spread it out among a bunch of bookmakers. so the guy spent the whole day betting the horse with a couple of dozen bookmakers a couple of hundred with each of them. wheN this relative told me the story i remembered the horse because it looked like a perennial maiden running about ten bad races in a row and then suddenly it reversed form and won by about 10 lengths at 60-1! The relative bet a couple of thousand on the horse himself. I think after that a lot of bookies refused to pay more than 15-1 on a horse at least in new york.
Reminds me of a situation at Mth. Julie Krone was on the favorite. As they parade the horses from the paddock, she looks in our general direction and puts her hand across her throat and mouths the words "can't breathe"..My friend and I stayed off her horse and made what turned out to be winning bets. Had we been in another place, we'd have missed the signal and lost. Because on paper Krone's horse was much the best.

Robert Goren
11-13-2013, 08:35 AM
There is no doubt that if you hang around the paddock for a while after the horses leave and keep your eyes and ears open, you learn some things from time to time. I did that for one Lincoln meet when I was in college and only bet what I heard. Made some decent cash, but sometimes I'd go two or three days with hearing anything. As a bonus I met some interesting people down there. If you don't mind standing for the entire card every day, I recommend trying it for a while. I hated the standing.

lamboguy
11-13-2013, 08:43 AM
there are guys that go to warm weather large tracks and all they do is look at feet, looking for good turf foot and when its muddy, mud feet. they don't bet until they see something they like. sometimes it takes weeks. i know a guy that has been doing this for 40 years successfully. i have never seen him bet more than $300 on a race either.

Bennie
11-13-2013, 08:06 PM
Two brief "overhearing" encounters at Monmouth, 2 gentlemen talking about a horse running at Philly. One is telling the other the race and number and how he was told to make sure he bets it. This happened twice when I was there on different occasions and both times the horse won and I was lucky enough to have thrown a few dollars on each one. Never saw those 2 men around again.
Older story. About 30 years ago, I used to work in a factory and there was a guy who worked there who had a "friend" who used to run the numbers and take bets. He came to work one day and told me his friend had given him the names of 3 horses to watch for in the next couple of days. First one shows up at Freehold about 3 days later. Taking the information with a grain of salt, a few of us place bets with the "in factory" bookie in the amount of like $5 w/p. Horse wins and pays like $8 and change. Couple of days later another shows up at Freehold. Again we place bets in house for about the same amount thinking, can he do it again? and if not we are only giving back some of winnings and nothing else out of pocket. Again, the horse win and pays almost $18. Finally, about 4 days later the last horse shows up at the Meadowlands and is 6-1 ML. I decide that I am going to the track to play this myself since they are running at night. Word gets out that I am going and before the day is over I have about $150 from fellow workers who want to get in on the action. I go that night and make their bets right away so I don't forget and mess things up and ponder how much I want to play myself. I figure what I have already won and what I can stand to lose and make what is the biggest bet I have ever made, even to this day, on the horse. I go $100 w/p/s. Never so nervous as I was watching that race. Top of the stretch the horse sweeps 3 wide and draws off by 4 lengths.
I have heard many stories about "on track" info, but getting these horses a week in advance and at 2 different tracks and having them all win. Someone knew something. I'm just glad they let me in on it all. Will never forget those days.
By the way, my friend went by the name of Joey Pal. Not THE Joey Pal, just what his friends called him. His last name was Pallitto

WP1981
11-13-2013, 09:03 PM
I have spent quite a few days in Turf Paradise OTB's with Mark May and some other athletes/retired racing people. The call would come in and one of them would announce it to the others..and the horse would go on to lose.

Last fall they were buzzing about a filly taking on the boys for the first time on tups yellow turf course. It was different this time as several new characters showed up at 10mtp. I had hammered a few tickets that morning and this chatter caught my interest this time. I made my largest play on her in my life at $200 w/p. She got a dream trip and finished a tiring 5th at 3-1 (off an 8-1ml).

They never cashed on a single one of these "sure" things, they made money by spreading and trying to scoop the entire P4 pool (and Marks outrageous $20 superfecta boxes, ESPN must pay well).

Not saying anything bad about them or any other inside info, they are a fun bunch..but trust your own plays and don't get caught up in the gossip.

thaskalos
11-13-2013, 09:19 PM
I have spent quite a few days in Turf Paradise OTB's with Mark May and some other athletes/retired racing people. The call would come in and one of them would announce it to the others..and the horse would go on to lose.

Last fall they were buzzing about a filly taking on the boys for the first time on tups yellow turf course. It was different this time as several new characters showed up at 10mtp. I had hammered a few tickets that morning and this chatter caught my interest this time. I made my largest play on her in my life at $200 w/p. She got a dream trip and finished a tiring 5th at 3-1 (off an 8-1ml).

They never cashed on a single one of these "sure" things, they made money by spreading and trying to scoop the entire P4 pool (and Marks outrageous $20 superfecta boxes, ESPN must pay well).

Not saying anything bad about them or any other inside info, they are a fun bunch..but trust your own plays and don't get caught up in the gossip.

I was sitting at the same OTB table with a couple of guys who were "friends" with an owner whose harness horses race at Balmoral Park. The 5th race at Balmoral was close to post...and this owner had a horse entered who looked sharp on paper but was coming off a 17 day layoff. One of the guys I was sitting with got a phone call, and moved away from the table so he could answer it. He returned two minutes later...to tell us that this owner had just called him, and told him that his horse in the upcoming race was laid off because of a fever...and was not a good bet in tonight's race.

No one bet on the horse, of course...which probably explains why it paid $16 when it rumbled down the stretch to win going away.

PICSIX
11-14-2013, 07:02 AM
The owner of the local (Bradshaw, NE...population 400) Bar & Grill/Strip Club got a hot tip, ALL SYSTEMS GO, CANNOT LOSE, LOCK OF THE MEET!!

The way I remember it, Friends Again was way out front turning for home on Fonner Park's bull ring when at mid-stretch R.D. Williams, or was it Perry Compton, literally stood up on the horse slamming the brakes on. My $50 win was toast.

I wish I could say I bet $100 on him next out, but I didn't have a dime on him when he won at Aksarben.


Ak-sar-ben 5/3/1990 2 Claiming 1
Fonner Park 4/19/1990 5 Claiming 3

lamboguy
11-14-2013, 08:04 AM
there used to be a guy that fixed races, he was pretty well known, his name was RICHARD CASTUCCI, not only did he fix horse races he was a gin rummy cheat. i played in a gin game with him at the Cavendish Club, i caught him cheating and just got up and never played in the game when he sat down. he wanted me to move money for him in Vegas, but i wouldn't go near him with a 10 foot pole.

bottom line they found him in the trunk of his car behind a strip joint he owned in Revere

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Castucci

brivolta
11-14-2013, 11:26 AM
I always ignore touts and inside info. More often than not they end up being wrong. Also, I would caution against playing fixes at smaller/lesser tracks. The jockeys aren't good enough to fix races at most of those places. So even when they're supposed to throw the race, often times they screw it up.

tzipi
12-09-2013, 12:48 PM
I always ignore touts and inside info. More often than not they end up being wrong. Also, I would caution against playing fixes at smaller/lesser tracks. The jockeys aren't good enough to fix races at most of those places. So even when they're supposed to throw the race, often times they screw it up.

The only ones I would really pay attention to when I'd hear them is when I'd hear a horse was in for a workout and not to win. Some of these horses go off at short odds too. Don't think it's right, but that's the game.

overthehill
12-09-2013, 01:02 PM
I remember a long time ago when peter ferriola was training horses, he had a put a horse in a non winner of one allowance race and the horse was either the favorite or close second choice. the horse wanted to run the entire race and every time the horse tried to make a move the jockey made the horse run up on the horse in front of him so that the horse had to steady, that happened at least 4 times in the race and the horse ran out of the money.
next time out they put the horse in a non winners of two and the horse won by 6 lengths and paid $15.40. I cashed.

tzipi
12-09-2013, 01:46 PM
I remember a long time ago when peter ferriola was training horses, he had a put a horse in a non winner of one allowance race and the horse was either the favorite or close second choice. the horse wanted to run the entire race and every time the horse tried to make a move the jockey made the horse run up on the horse in front of him so that the horse had to steady, that happened at least 4 times in the race and the horse ran out of the money.
next time out they put the horse in a non winners of two and the horse won by 6 lengths and paid $15.40. I cashed.

So many times I have heard jockeys get yelled at and cursed at for being "stupid" and "not knowing how to ride" but in a lot of those races they were doing what they were instructed to do.

horses4courses
12-09-2013, 02:02 PM
In the early 1970s, I was at the Leopardstown races in Dublin, Ireland.
I must have been in early HS years - can't recall exactly.
On Wednesdays, though, school got out early and it was a mile walk to the track.
Getting out at noon, the first race was usually around 1:00 in the winter time, or early spring. Perfect. :)

On this particular day, I think it was either in late Feb or early March, I was walking down into the betting ring where the bookmakers stood. We were probably approaching the second, or third race, out of six, and I may have even been fortunate enough to be on my way to collect some winnings, but that may be stretching it ;) .

I can still see the faces of these two bookies in the ring - one leaning up to another I knew, and giving him some information about the upcoming hunter chase. Old Sam (last name withheld), then in his 80s, and about as old school as they came, was bending down listening to this well dressed man, and I was close enough to get the gist of the conversation. A certain female trainer from the north of Ireland had a runner in the next race that was in tremendous form - form which had not been displayed before on the track.
Sam listened, nodded a couple of times, and got down from his foot stand.
The conversation had lasted all of 10 seconds.
Both men adjourned to the bar under the grandstand.

Sam never missed a race when he attended a meeting.
Always up at his pitch doing business, and shouting the odds as the runners went to post.
I'd watched him casually for a few years - I was relatively new at this game.
He'd been making book for a long time before I was around.
I also happened to know two of his granddaughters who were at the same school.
Very friendly girls - but that's another story.

Sam did not return to his pitch before that race. Highly unusual.
It was obvious that any business he would do on this occasion,
would be done under the radar.
My normal one or two pound bet ($2-3) would need to be increased here.
A look around the ring - the opening 10-1 odds on this horse were vanishing fast.
Next quote 8-1, and I clenched a five pound note tight and gave it to a bookmaker who I can't recall now.
He repeated my bet to his clerk behind the board - "40 pounds to 5 on horse XXX, ticket number 865". I was down.

The race, which I do remember, was the Kilgobbin Hunter Chase and was run over 3 miles.
I never had an anxious moment during the race.
The horse jumped like a stag, and won easily. Closing odds were around 3-1.
I was locked-in at 8-1, so no worries there.
Many bookmakers took a pounding on that race. Sam wasn't one of them.
Was the fix in? Unlikely.
This was a lightly raced improving horse. There were no superstars in opposition - the race was there for the taking.
Sometimes inside information can be quite profitable.

offtrack
12-10-2013, 08:33 AM
I remember watching Walter Case, dressed in a Santa Claus suit, win a few races. It was Christmas time, probably at Yonkers. Even I figured the gift was a Christmas winner.

pondman
12-11-2013, 06:09 AM
Charles Town racest.

West Virginia- heard it both ways. Surprised nobody has asked if you've ever juiced a horse.

Rise Over Run
12-14-2013, 08:46 PM
A friend of mine at a former job was big into the NY racing scene with Saturday visits to Belmont and a week at 'toga every year. We still keep in touch and meet at Belmont annually for JCGC Day in October. His son is friendly with a morning exercise rider (also NYRA teller) for a somewhat small, yet well known NY trainer. I'm not going to give out names, but he's had some real nice horses in the past, but not as many recently. We had gotten some good information from the exercise rider in the past and cashed some tickets.

So the "inside information" this time is for a NYB maiden that hadn't done much running at all in 4 starts on the dirt. I'm assuming this is still true, but in NY you can't work a horse over the lawn unless they are entered in an upcoming stakes race. The info is that the trainer managed to get this 0-4 maiden onto the lawn to workout by claiming he was the stakes horse in his barn. The "tip" is the maiden loved the turf and should easily handle any NYB field.

Yup, he wires the field under wraps at near 7/2 over an 8/5 shot and several of us from worked cashed nice tickets. This happened in 2009 and the horse turned out to be a pretty nice NYB winning many allowances and a stakes race. He may have run on the dirt once or twice over the next 30+ starts and he's still running at age 7, with 2 wins this year at a high level; although the original trainer is long out of the picture.

cosmicway
12-16-2013, 07:08 PM
I have but it's been a long time.
Also missed a real great opportunity once because I had no money.
Cases of 50-50 knowledge of hanky panky occur even to this day.

Rise Over Run
05-16-2014, 05:52 PM
A friend of mine at a former job was big into the NY racing scene with Saturday visits to Belmont and a week at 'toga every year. We still keep in touch and meet at Belmont annually for JCGC Day in October. His son is friendly with a morning exercise rider (also NYRA teller) for a somewhat small, yet well known NY trainer. I'm not going to give out names, but he's had some real nice horses in the past, but not as many recently. We had gotten some good information from the exercise rider in the past and cashed some tickets.

So the "inside information" this time is for a NYB maiden that hadn't done much running at all in 4 starts on the dirt. I'm assuming this is still true, but in NY you can't work a horse over the lawn unless they are entered in an upcoming stakes race. The info is that the trainer managed to get this 0-4 maiden onto the lawn to workout by claiming he was the stakes horse in his barn. The "tip" is the maiden loved the turf and should easily handle any NYB field.

Yup, he wires the field under wraps at near 7/2 over an 8/5 shot and several of us from worked cashed nice tickets. This happened in 2009 and the horse turned out to be a pretty nice NYB winning many allowances and a stakes race. He may have run on the dirt once or twice over the next 30+ starts and he's still running at age 7, with 2 wins this year at a high level; although the original trainer is long out of the picture.

The old man still has it at age 8 with a victory today in a high price optional allowance at Belmont. Strong Impact. And ughhhh, claimed by DJ.

highnote
05-17-2014, 02:22 AM
I enjoyed reading this thread and it reminded me of a few stories.

A relative of mine used to work at Mountaineer Park back in the early '70s when it was still Waterford Park.

He worked in security and said he often heard the jocks fixing races -- especially around Christmas time so they could buy presents for their families. They'd also fix a race if one of them needed money because they had fallen on hard times.

----

Back in the '90s my friend and I used to go to the races every Saturday at Belmont and Aqueduct. We did not miss a single meeting for an entire year. We were also paddock handicappers. After a while you get to know the horses by sight. You also become a pretty good judge of fitness.

One day there was a shipper from out of town -- Delaware, I believe. The horse was jet black. I don't know about you, but I have seen thousands of thoroughbreds and I've only seen one jet black thoroughbred and it was the shipper from Delaware. This was a low level claiming race for 3 year olds, but this horse looked like an older champion. He was the class of the field, but you'd never know it from his form.

We saw a groom watching the race on the monitor. He turned to us and said you've got to bet this horse at 3-1 because he can't lose. Neither of us bet him. DUH! What were we thinking.

He won easily. It was never a contest. To this day we are convinced it was a ringer.

Back then Daily Racing Form only printed the past 10 races. I went home and checked my database and discovered that this horse had raced 11 races ago in New York. I forgot how he did the previous time, but his form had been darkened in the meantime -- and so had his coat. :D

We wondered what would have happened if we would have claimed the horse. We joked that we would have probably gotten a visit from the former owner and he would have offered to buy the horse back. It would have been an offer we couldn't refuse. :D

----

Races for amateur jockeys are pretty common in England according to my friend who is a British racing journalist. He told me that the way to bet an amateur riding race is to watch the jockeys in the paddock and take note of how they sit on their mounts. A jockey with the best form is usually the best jockey and can be worth a bet.

One day back in the 90s Aqueduct staged an amateur riding race. My British friend and I went to the paddock to watch the jockeys. There was a jockey who just looked great sitting on his horse. His style reminded us of Jerry Bailey -- upright and very professional looking.

Well, the good looking jockey's horse won easily at around 3 or 4 to 1. We did not bet the race because it was for amateur riders. We kicked ourselves in the ass for not betting, though.

Then, before the race was declared official the inquiry sign went up.

Turns out the horse the good looking jockey was riding was disqualified because the jockey had rode professionally in South America -- Panama, I think?

The race was declared a non-betting event and all tickets were refunded.

----------

There was also the Sweetcatomine fiasco in the Santa Anita Derby back in 2005. The filly was entered against the boys and was the favorite.

She was taken off track in the middle of the night before the race and placed in a hyperbaric chamber. However, the track was never notified and was told it was a pony being taken off of the track. I bet her and lost money on this race. It was one of the bigger bets I ever made.

It was quite controversial. Here is a link to the story:

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/31518/bettors-suit-over-sweet-catomine-dismissed

098poi
05-17-2014, 09:12 AM
When I lived in So Cal I was at Santa Anita or Hollywood and I knew a guy who "knew a guy". His guy said the horse can't lose. The horse lost.

cosmicway
05-17-2014, 09:22 AM
When I lived in So Cal I was at Santa Anita or Hollywood and I knew a guy who "knew a guy". His guy said the horse can't lose. The horse lost.

These things happen everyday.
Pay also attention that some horses are in the pipeline and perform next time.

The clue is to get in when you know someone is reputable.
It's like political parties. Some of their spokesmen are reputable, some others are veg market layabouts.

BlueShoe
05-17-2014, 01:22 PM
Horses with forms darkened to set up for a bet? Sure, many times. Outright fixes with other horses stiffed and the result preordained? Never.
Tend to go along with this, and believe that it is a pretty good brief summary of how things are. There have been several anecdotes involving jockeys in this thread. Whenever I read or hear one, I am reminded of something that the great Eddie Arcaro was reputed to have said. When asked what he would like to do now that his riding career was over, he said that his dream job would be to be allowed to operate the hand book in the jock's quarters, ie, in his opinion, the riders were terrible handicappers, knew nothing out of the ordinary, and he would make a fortune taking their bets.

Bullet Plane
05-17-2014, 04:36 PM
About 20 years ago, when I still went to the track frequently...

I was in the $2.00 line with the lowlifes, as usual, when I noticed a gorgeous young woman dressed to the nines at the $50.00 window making a bet.

As was my custom, I meandered out to the paddock to watch them saddle the horses...

And to my surprise, there was the gorgeous well dressed woman from the $50.00 window with her husband and kids - all dressed for picture taking - standing in the area where the trainer lifts the jockey onto the horses,

... with the trainer of the 8 horse...

Hmmmm.. I wondered.. this horse was 20-1 on the morning line. I looked at the form, and the horse looked hopeless. Then I looked at the board, and the horse was getting bet down to around 8-1.. 6-1 range.

As the horses went to the track, I went back to the windows and bet all I had... on the 8 horse...

It won for fun...

Don't know if a fix was in, or what the hell was going on...

I never did see those people again.. and that was my last "score" of that nature...

highnote
05-17-2014, 06:57 PM
Good one, Bullet.

I saw a similar thing happen at Aqueduct during the winter meet. Alan Jerkins, Sr. was standing on the ground floor of the clubhouse on a cold, blustery day, just a few strides from the paddock. I had been on the groundfloor of the clubhouse every Saturday for the entire meet because we did paddock handicapping and I never once saw him there before.

But he was there that day before a race and he and the connections were all dressed to the nines. Sure enough his horse won and they all walked to the winner's circle to get their picture taken.

I swore next it happened I would bet his horse. I never saw it happen again. :D

BlueShoe
05-17-2014, 07:07 PM
While all the talk about fixes and hot tips is mostly bunk, there are such things as betting coups. There are such things as betting stables, outfits that will wager heavily when they strongly believe that their runner has a very good chance of winning. This is why tabbing the tote, watching for what appears to be non public betting action can give strong hints. Talk is cheap, but when a person or persons supposedly with information not known to the general public wagers large sums, it might be wise to pay attention.

cosmicway
05-17-2014, 07:18 PM
While all the talk about fixes and hot tips is mostly bunk, there are such things as betting coups. There are such things as betting stables, outfits that will wager heavily when they strongly believe that their runner has a very good chance of winning. This is why tabbing the tote, watching for what appears to be non public betting action can give strong hints. Talk is cheap, but when a person or persons supposedly with information not known to the general public wagers large sums, it might be wise to pay attention.

I don't advise anyone to look forward to such info.
There are spurious instances if you are a race goer, otherwise if you follow from tv-net, it is 100% bs or conspiracy theories that prove wrong.
But it's happening and a look at police records will convince anybody.
A partial solution of this problem -if we are all agreed to look upon it as a problem- it to prohibit the participation of all persons under orders in the wagering process (and not just the jocks).

ultracapper
05-17-2014, 09:09 PM
1983, maybe 84, near the end of the meet at Longacres, the word around was that trainers that were having a rough meet needed to win a few to get some of the expenses paid. I worked as a teller at a bank that a window clerk from Longacres banked at. Got to know him a little, and went to his window quite a bit. Next to last week of the meet, I go to his window to place a bet on one horse, and he says, no, put it on this horse. The horse is 3/2 and I don't want to bet it, but he says, and these are his exact words.....

"What's rigged at Longacres is rigged good."

Horse wins, pays $5. I had $50 on it, the largest bet of my life to that time.

Dark Horse
05-18-2014, 05:05 AM
Not horse related, but after Tim Donaghy did his time he went online and discussed upcoming playoff games for the NBA. Uncanny how he knew what was coming. I had no problem betting his selections. He was basically showing that the NBA is entertainment and about as fixed as pro wrestling.

my_nameaintearl
05-18-2014, 11:34 AM
Few harness stories

I was tipped off on the Lou pena shit a few years ago at poconos before it became common knowledge. I stopped betting his horses after they started being consistently 3/5

I'm sitting at harrahs Chester one night before they knock down the race book area and add the poker room and a guy sitting next to me tells me to watch the show pool for a race at ocean downs. I notice that 5 minutes to post the pool decreased. Next thing I know this guy is kissing and snapping at the tv for a 12-1 horse who wins easily. That guy helped me make a few dollars going forward.


Had a pretty good source on a horse named yes Hanover that was profitable long term.

It's safe to say I no longer bet harness but do believe there is still funny shit that goes on

delayjf
05-18-2014, 11:35 AM
yes...maiden claimer's in S.Cal circuit...3 different trainers....different times...Horse ML 10/1 or worse...no way you can pick off the form or known info...go off at 3/1 or less...win like a 3/5 shot..

I don't remember stats exactly, but in the early 90s Bobby Frankel has @ a 50% win percentage on his horses over 30-1 at Delmar

Tall One
05-18-2014, 12:47 PM
Same thing, occasionally through a friend ( former trainer's wife ) I may hear about someone with a hot firster or 2nd start maiden I'll give a second look, but never a true boat race with an established horse.

Besides, most hot tips turn cold after the race. And until they give me the money to bet 'em.......



Back in '96, I was working at a local liquor store, and we had several horsemen that would come in and do their shopping. Well, one of the guys I worked with also happened to be good friends with the farm manager out at Wafare Farm. He's been touting him on a horse they've got out at Santa Anita named Oakhurst. They thought the horse had some potential, and the trainer, David Hoffmans, was being patient with him. Three starts, and hadn't really showed anything yet. Finally, one Saturday, I come into work, and my buddy at the store is literally busting at the seams. Tells me Hoffmans had called them that morning and all he said was "Bet him. Today's the day."
No sooner had I walked in the door for work, I was dashing right back out too my car and on my way to the Red Mile (back then, Keeneland and them split simulcasting dates) to make our bets. 8-1 in the morning line with Mike Hunter up, and he ended up going off at 6-1 and not because of us. Put $50 right on his frigging nose and he won for fun.

cosmicway
05-18-2014, 12:51 PM
Hmmfff.
Many stories with horses that suddenly improve.
But does anyone have a story with a hot fav that was to drop dead ?

wisconsin
07-22-2014, 10:04 AM
My dad owned pacers back in the '70's and played cards with trainers and drivers, and had loads of information.

Before the passing lane, drivers would "allow" themselves to get pinned with decent horses, and then a select few would know to bet it next week.

One time, and I was there (just a kid, but hung out) at the old Maywood training center out in Elgin and one of the drivers told my dad about a horse who was running the next night. The driver had a hard on for the trainer and really stiffed the horse a few consecutive starts, said the trainer does not even know how good this horse is. So off we went to Maywood the next night, and this horse, names I forget, was only 10 or 11, but it was a rare occasion when dad let me give him a couple of bucks to bet on the horse, and I got a crisp $20 back. Back then, that was a Lot of money for a 10 year old.

Valuist
07-22-2014, 12:28 PM
This isn't about a fixed race, per se, although at the time it felt like the results were pre-determined.

It was the late 80s and Hawthorne had the bulk of summer dates after Arlington was burned down. I went to Maywood Park OTB one summer day and saw a friend. I came to bet a horse named Heart of Steel, who was coming in off a win one level lower at Thistledown. I can't remember if the trainer was Reavis or George Getz, but Juvenal Diaz had the mount so the horse looked live, and being a Tdn ship in, I figured many would shun the horse.

My friend asked me who I liked. I told him Heart of Steel and at 15-1 in the betting, I thought he was a great bet. "Really?" he asked. "Will he even be able to make it to the finish line? He's been eased in his last two races," he told me.

I knew that was wrong. The horse had won its last 2 races at Tdn in my DRF but his DRF showed a horse from the UK who was eased. Obviously there was two different Heart of Steel's; one was bred in the US and one in Great Britain. Who's DRF was right? We figured with Diaz taking the mount, mine was right. We watched the betting, and gradually the odds started to tumble.

The 15-1 didn't last but we still got 5-1. And the race unfolded absolutely perfectly. Heart of Steel sat 3rd on the backstretch, a few lengths off two battling leaders and in front of the rest of the beasts. Diaz barely moved a muscle as the horse inhaled the leaders and destroyed the field.

After the race, I saw two other guys who didn't know what had happened. They thought the fix was in; a horse who had never run on dirt and eased in its last 2 blows a field away. I showed them the REAL pps and boy, were they pissed.

thaskalos
07-22-2014, 12:59 PM
This isn't about a fixed race, per se, although at the time it felt like the results were pre-determined.

It was the late 80s and Hawthorne had the bulk of summer dates after Arlington was burned down. I went to Maywood Park OTB one summer day and saw a friend. I came to bet a horse named Heart of Steel, who was coming in off a win one level lower at Thistledown. I can't remember if the trainer was Reavis or George Getz, but Juvenal Diaz had the mount so the horse looked live, and being a Tdn ship in, I figured many would shun the horse.

My friend asked me who I liked. I told him Heart of Steel and at 15-1 in the betting, I thought he was a great bet. "Really?" he asked. "Will he even be able to make it to the finish line? He's been eased in his last two races," he told me.

I knew that was wrong. The horse had won its last 2 races at Tdn in my DRF but his DRF showed a horse from the UK who was eased. Obviously there was two different Heart of Steel's; one was bred in the US and one in Great Britain. Who's DRF was right? We figured with Diaz taking the mount, mine was right. We watched the betting, and gradually the odds started to tumble.

The 15-1 didn't last but we still got 5-1. And the race unfolded absolutely perfectly. Heart of Steel sat 3rd on the backstretch, a few lengths off two battling leaders and in front of the rest of the beasts. Diaz barely moved a muscle as the horse inhaled the leaders and destroyed the field.

After the race, I saw two other guys who didn't know what had happened. They thought the fix was in; a horse who had never run on dirt and eased in its last 2 blows a field away. I showed them the REAL pps and boy, were they pissed.

I bet they became life-long fans of the game. :)

Valuist
07-22-2014, 01:19 PM
I bet they became life-long fans of the game. :)

Thask-

Do you remember Dare and Defy? He/she was a cheap claimer that ran on the Chicago circuit in mid 80s.

I want to say it was 1984; maybe '85. Apparently the tote system didn't lock when the gates opened. Several tellers were aware of this as the race went off. Dare and Defy, a 30-1 shot, went to the lead. They continued to bet throughout, and when Dare and Defy won and the prices were posted, the win payoff was $12 or $13. A near riot ensued. Talk about a late betdown. It ended up being the lead story that night on local news. I remember ex-Bear Johnny Morris interviewing some of the tellers for the news. One guy acted like he was a hero because he turned in his winnings from $5000 he bet from the track's money.

Arbor Heights
07-22-2014, 01:35 PM
I was in high school (early 70's), at Hazel Park, when owned by certain types of infamous deeds. One of my classmates, who was the grandson of one of the owners, worked as a teller then. Went with a friend of mine one afternoon and hadn't hit anything all day. Before the last race of the day this friend of ours comes running up to us very quickly and says "put everything you got on number 7" and runs away just as quickly. I look at the board and see "9/2). I know better! I like another horse. Bet it. #7 wins by 2. I still haven't figured out to this day why I didn't play the 7!

thaskalos
07-22-2014, 01:38 PM
Thask-

Do you remember Dare and Defy? He/she was a cheap claimer that ran on the Chicago circuit in mid 80s.

I want to say it was 1984; maybe '85. Apparently the tote system didn't lock when the gates opened. Several tellers were aware of this as the race went off. Dare and Defy, a 30-1 shot, went to the lead. They continued to bet throughout, and when Dare and Defy won and the prices were posted, the win payoff was $12 or $13. A near riot ensued. Talk about a late betdown. It ended up being the lead story that night on local news. I remember ex-Bear Johnny Morris interviewing some of the tellers for the news. One guy acted like he was a hero because he turned in his winnings from $5000 he bet from the track's money.
Of course I remember.

One of the tellers admitted that he kept pressing repeat until the betting machine was turned off.

illinoisbred
07-22-2014, 01:54 PM
Of course I remember.

One of the tellers admitted that he kept pressing repeat until the betting machine was turned off.
I remember this too. Geez,it was that long ago..time flies.

A. Pineda
07-22-2014, 03:00 PM
Horses with forms darkened to set up for a bet? Sure, many times...

Yes, it happens every day.

A friend who managed a gas station had his guys quickly repair a flat on a horse trailer so the driver/trainer and horses could be on their way. Several months later the trainer stopped by and told my friend which horse to bet that day. The horse was 70/1, so my friend made a very conservative $5 WP wager, and the horse did come in.

A friend who was mob-connected called me one day to say that "the boys" called him from back east to tell him to play a certain horse in the feature at HOL. I checked the PPs and the horse came in dead last in his ALW prep. There weren't any replays then, or at least affordable replays, so I decided that it wasn't worth a bet. The horse won at 30/1.

A friend who managed a parking garage in Beverly Hills would frequently get tips from the doctors and lawyers that owned horses. He had a tip on a horse at DM, so we drove down there and made some sizeable bets at 10/1 odds. The horse didn't run a lick. Two weeks later he won the feature at 25/1.

I felt strongly about a particular DD so I made a $100 :6: / :6: bet. My horse in the 1st race always ran 6F in 1:10 1/5 or 1:10 2/5. A friend who worked at SA told me to play # :4: instead, or to at least split the bet and make a $50 :4: / :6: . Well, the :4: usually covered the distance in 1:12 2/5, so I disregarded the advice. Not only did the :4: win, but the final time was 1:12 4/5.

wisconsin
07-22-2014, 03:55 PM
Of course I remember.

One of the tellers admitted that he kept pressing repeat until the betting machine was turned off.


It was several tellers at Maywood ITW.

Tall One
07-22-2014, 07:08 PM
I was in high school (early 70's), at Hazel Park, when owned by certain types of infamous deeds. One of my classmates, who was the grandson of one of the owners, worked as a teller then. Went with a friend of mine one afternoon and hadn't hit anything all day. Before the last race of the day this friend of ours comes running up to us very quickly and says "put everything you got on number 7" and runs away just as quickly. I look at the board and see "9/2). I know better! I like another horse. Bet it. #7 wins by 2. I still haven't figured out to this day why I didn't play the 7!



I would've went on week-long bender if that happened today.. :D

Arbor, assuming you still live up that way, I guess you heard that one of the "Original owners ;) " recently passed away from natural causes. He was 87.

Shemp Howard
07-23-2014, 10:29 PM
So why do they call them "boat races?"

BettinBilly
07-23-2014, 11:05 PM
As far as I am aware, I never cashed a FIX. Came close one time. Well, I THINK I came close one time.

About 18 years ago I was eating breakfast alone in a Diner in Terrytown, NY one VERY early morning and I heard two guys in suits with white shoes talking in a booth behind me something like, "Tonight the 3rd at Yonkers, #2 all in, cuz it freakin' can't miss, and I freakin' mean ya' can't miss on this freakin' one." It's been too long so I can't remember the exact race and horse, but you get the drift.

Never played it, never checked it. Assume it was a pretty good tip just because. I mean, who wears a suit with white shoes to a diner at 6 AM? Wish I had at least looked at the results to see if that horse Won.

Stillriledup
07-24-2014, 02:47 AM
I would love standing near the 50 dollar window back in the day "loudly" discussing the "tip" i receive with a friend hoping that nobody ;) overheard me.

:D

thaskalos
07-24-2014, 01:49 PM
I would love standing near the 50 dollar window back in the day "loudly" discussing the "tip" i receive with a friend hoping that nobody ;) overheard me.

:D

Was that YOU? :eek:

Longshot6977
07-24-2014, 04:08 PM
So why do they call them "boat races?"

From Wikipedia on Australian and New Zealand races: (probably refers to any races though)

Boat race- A race with a number of non-triers which is said to be fixed for one horse to win.