NYRA "may" have to raise takeout

[karlskorner]

http://www.drf.com/news/article/54212.html

On Nola.com a LA Judge ruled that Fair Grounds owes Horsemen 90 Mil. NYRA owes horsemen 40 Mil. Looks to me like the Horsemen are getting hind tit where ever they race

[hurrikane]

talk about hind tit.

I'm on the elevator at LRL the other day riding up to the turf club.

The track manager gets on with anouther guy and he's talking about being at Santa Anita last week. Then he says. "This guy has the right idea. Give them nothing and they still come out to play"

That's exactly what is wrong with this industry. Screw the customer. At least Santa Anita give the patron a decent place to go and comfortable surroundings. Md is a far cry from that.

[Memogram]

I have been making a point to play aqueduct because of the low takeout, I hope it is rejected.

[fouroneone]

would someone mind cutting and pasting the article?

The DRF is a blocked website at my company.

[takeout]

Looks like the honeymoon NY is over. If this goes through, how many times will it be now that they've lowered and then raised the take right back where it was? Maybe they'll manage to lose a couple of more big bettors this time - if they have any left.

As for the Maryland tracks, I see nothing has changed since the old Chic Lang days, the thinking is still the same. I remember reading about someone over there in management (unnamed) saying years ago that their customers would crawl through barbed wire and broken glass to get there. Evidently the new guy fits right in. Where does Joe find these perfect matches? I hate to admit it but they must've been at least partially right because MD has taken abuse to their customers to new heights but they still seem to have a few. And now it appears that the reward for screwing over your customer base at every opportunity is to be given slots and made rich. What a country!

[karlskorner]

You and others claim you have been abused by tracks, how ?
Dont' compare with casinos, because they have a vice grip on your nuggets when you walk through the door. That's why they let you in free. At the track you are in a pari-mutual atmosphere, it's you against the people sitting around you. You are at a sporting event, how much did you pay to see a pro football game or any other pro event, how much did you pay for a beer or hot dog at these events. Sure the tracks take a piece of your action, why shouldn't they. look around you, who do you think provided this atmosphere. Most people lose less at the races than they pay for a decent seat at a pro game with no chance of winning it back.

If NYRA goes up 2%, is that really going to effect the locals, or those who play simulcast ? I read on the board about rebates and takeout like it was a personal thing, there are 1200+ members on the board, maybe and just maybe 5 (tops) benefit from from rebates and takeout, to the rest it's a pastime hobby.
At the end of the week, month or year when you add it all up is there that much difference.

[fouroneone]

Originally posted by karlskorner
You and others claim you have been abused by tracks, how ?
Dont' compare with casinos, because they have a vice grip on your nuggets when you walk through the door. That's why they let you in free. At the track you are in a pari-mutual atmosphere, it's you against the people sitting around you. You are at a sporting event, how much did you pay to see a pro football game or any other pro event, how much did you pay for a beer or hot dog at these events. Sure the tracks take a piece of your action, why shouldn't they. look around you, who do you think provided this atmosphere. Most people lose less at the races than they pay for a decent seat at a pro game with no chance of winning it back.

If NYRA goes up 2%, is that really going to effect the locals, or those who play simulcast ? I read on the board about rebates and takeout like it was a personal thing, there are 1200+ members on the board, maybe and just maybe 5 (tops) benefit from from rebates and takeout, to the rest it's a pastime hobby.
At the end of the week, month or year when you add it all up is there that much difference.


well said

[kenwoodallpromos]

The reporter is an idiot! Raise on WPS and 2-horse bets? Just bet 3 or more horse bets! No raise in takeouts!!LOL!! / As long as my competition is drunk, addicted gamblers who use P/S as throwaway bets and think all workouts and half the races are fixed, I will make a profit with any half-way reasonable takeout! Start winning and avoid the takeout discussions!!LOL!!

[takeout]

After reading the last few posts I'm having a hard time understanding how Hialeah went out of business. :D You guys must have been playing elsewhere.

[so.cal.fan]

Bill would up NYRA takeout
By MATT HEGARTY
New York Sen. Richard Larkin, chairman of the State Senate's Racing and Wagering Committee, has introduced a bill that would raise the takeout for bets placed on New York Racing Association races.
The bill, which has not been scheduled for a vote, would raise the statutory minimum and maximum takeout rates on NYRA's races in order to increase revenue to the association, its horsemen, New York offtrack betting companies, and local government. Under the bill, the takeout would be raised at least 2 percentage points on win, place, and show wagers and 2.5 percentage points on two-horse bets, compared with NYRA's current takeout rates.

Barry Schwartz, the chairman of NYRA, has pushed for lower takeouts since taking the helm of the association in 2000. Schwartz has said that takeouts need to be reduced in order to increase payouts to winners and lower the price for betting on horse races.

Schwartz, who was traveling on Monday, was unavailable for comment.

"I don't know if you've noticed it, but NYRA is losing its shirt," said Steve Casscles, counsel to Larkin, on Monday. "There's a lot of people out there who believe that the low takeout is one of the reasons."

Takeout on win, place, and show wagers at NYRA is currently 14 percent, one of the lowest rates in the country. Takeout for two-horse wagers is 17.5 percent.

[karlskorner]

During a long walk, after dinner, I came to this conclusion. Most of the noise about reducing takeouts comes from internet players and maybe some simulcast players.

Yet when you think about it, they do not pay a parking fee, admission fee, they don't buy DRF or a program or tip sheet. They don't buy lunch, a sandwich, coffe, beer, dougnut, pizza, ice cream, popcorn etc. yet on all of the above the track makes a profit helping to pay the mortgage. However, they feel smug that they are playing from home or some OTB and saving the costs of the above. Now after saving all this money, they feel it is their duty to inform/demand various track management that they want the take out reduced and rebates given so they can play longer. If anything, the takeout reduction and or rebates belong to the patrons who support the track.

[PaceAdvantage]

Let's spell it out so even the most dense among us can get it:


LOWER TAKEOUT = HIGHER HANDLE

Notice how the handle at NYRA has increased steadily since takeouts started going down? Is that a coincidence?

Increased handle will more than make up for a lower takeout. With more handle, the state and track will make more in breakage as well as takeout.

DUH! Leave it to legislators to oversimplify things in order to create a nice soundbyte for the voters.....all of a sudden these legislators are freakin experts on all matters of racetrack management?

Give me a freakin break.

I guess it's time to TURN BACK THE CLOCK!! Let's watch handle DROP as takeout goes up.....

[WINMANWIN]

They keep insulting one's intelligence, and frankly I'm sick and tired of hearing about INCREASED TAKEOUTS. NYRA will have the
VLT'S in X amount of mths. They will generate large amounts of money for horseman, track, etc. When do the fans get a break.
Instead of lowering the TAKEOUT, They want to raise the NYRA
takeout with VLT'S mths away ? :eek:

[takeout]

If there's any doubt about where the customer stands in the grand scheme of horseracing, this should help to put it in perspective for even the most optimistic of us.

Horsemen back N.Y. bill
http://www.drf.com/news/article/54229.html

[kenwoodallpromos]

NYTHA has $9m illion reasons to raise takeout! Big businessmen always want the customers to pay and always want higher margin of profit instead of higher volume!

[InsideThePylons-MW]

A couple of posts in this thread are incredibly scary.

[karlskorner]

I started this thread because NYRA "borrowed" 40 Mil from the horsemen. Why ? My thougths to supplement losses from lower takeout. Fair grounds "borrowed" 90 Mil from horsemen. Of course the handle is going to increase with lower takeout. Everybody and his brother is going to rush to play. To make up the difference management decides to "borrow" the loss.

[karlskorner]

Maybe they will see part of the 40 Mil owed them

http://www.drf.com/news/article/54229.html

[takeout]

Maybe?

Forgive my ignorance on the subject but why are the horsemen anywhere loaning the tracks money? It just doesn't sound right. Are these actual loans or are the tracks just taking/keeping it?

[karlskorner]

Where you been ? The archives are loaded with articles about NYRA "borrowing" money from the horsemens account, no interest, didn't even bother to tell them. They just needed it to defray operating costs, expensive lunchs and salary increases for Noe and Meyocks etal. It's like you leave money with me that I owe you and when I need to "borrow" some I won't even tell you.
They owe the horsemen 40 Mil. and have a period of time to replace it. Where do you think they are going to lay their hands on that kind of dough ?

[takeout]

Originally posted by karlskorner
They owe the horsemen 40 Mil. and have a period of time to replace it. Where do you think they are going to lay their hands on that kind of dough ?
How about prison.

Is this the same situation at the other tracks mentioned... they're just stealing it?

So the track owners are stealing from the horsemen, then the track owners and the horsemen try to get it back from us. Sounds a little like that "fix 'em up fund" Joe DeFrancis had going in Maryland, only worse.

Seriously, why aren't these guys making license plates? Sure sounds like embezzlement to me.

Do the other tracks that have "borrowed" money from their horsemen's fund also have a predetermined time to pay up?

[Que]

This thread is why the horseracing industry is on life-support and has become nothing more than a loss-lead for track management. To make my case, please read through the following example:

Player A and Player B both start with a $2000 Bankroll. Both Player A and Player B are average handicappers, and both lose in direct proportion to the track's take (breakage not considered). Both Player A and Player B wager 4% of their total bankroll each wager; and both players quit horseracing when their bankrolls fall below $1000--or a 50% loss. Both tracks, Player A's track and Player B's track, use a blended rate to distribute the takeout.

Player A, plays at a track with a 14% takeout. After making 124 bets, player A's bankroll is $996 and he quits. Before he quit, Player A contributed $7165.71 to the track's handle.

Player B, plays at a track with a 16% takeout. After making 108 bets, player B's bankroll falls below $1000 and she is forced to quit. Before she quit, Player B contributed $6331.44 to the track's handle.

At track A (with a 14% takeout); 0.5% went to the state, 6.75% went to the track, and 6.75% went for purses (the horsemen). Therefore, of the $7165.71 Player A wagered; the state received $35.83, and the track and the horsemen each received $483.69.

At track B (16% takeout); 0.5% went to the state, 7.75% went to the track, and 7.75% went for purses (the horsemen). Therefore, of the $6331.44 Player B wagered; the state received $31.66, and the track and the horsemen each received $490.69.

Therefore, with the 2% increase in takeout, track B's handle fell by 11.7%; however, track B and it's horsemen did receive a 1.4% increase in revenue.

However; let's just say both players A & B decided to start with another $2000 bankroll, but this time to increase their chances they would open an internet betting account with a 7% rebate.

Player A, playing at a same track with a 14% takeout, is now able to make 248 bets before having to quit. Before he quits, Player A contributed a total $14317.49 to the track's handle. Of this amount, 5% was paid for the track's signal (split evenly between the track and horsemen). Therefore, the track and horsemen each received another $357.94.

However, Player B, playing at her same track with the 16% takeout, was able to only make 193 bets before having to quit. Before she quit, she contributed a total $10140.46 to the track's handle. Of this amount, like Track A, the 5% host fee was split evenly between the track and horsemen. Therefore, the track and horsemen at Track B only received $253.51.

Therefore, before both players quit horseracing for good; the track and horsemen at Track A (with the 14% handle) received a total of $841.63, while the track and horsemen at Track B (with the 16% handle) received only $744.20, or 11.6% less than track A--despite having a 2% higher takeout rate.

In addition, it wouldn't have made much difference if the player's wagered off-track through an OTB rather a rebate shop. In fact, rebate shops typically pay a higher host fee than off track wagers, so conceivably both track's would have earned even less if the players wagered off-track vice using a rebate shop.

Anyway, to make a long story short, if the majority of the track's handle comes from off-track wagering, then increasing the track's takeout rate will only decrease the amount of revenue flowing to the track and horsemen. So unless the NYRA's on-track handle exceeds both it's intra-state and inter-state handle (which isn't going to happen in my lifetime), then increasing the track's takeout will only hurt the people it's intended to help. And any increase in takeout is certainly not going to help the horseplayer!

Que.

[so.cal.fan]

Thank you for the enlightening post, Que.
You made it crystal clear!

[raybo]

RE:< At track A (with a 14% takeout); 0.5% went to the state, 6.75% went to the track, and 6.75% went for purses (the horsemen). Therefore, of the $7165.71 Player A wagered; the state received $35.83, and the track and the horsemen each received $483.69.
At track B (16% takeout); 0.5% went to the state, 7.75% went to the track, and 7.75% went for purses (the horsemen). Therefore, of the $6331.44 Player B wagered; the state received $31.66, and the track and the horsemen each received $490.69. >

No offense intended, but I think you made a small, but significant mistake. At track "A" (14% take-out), $7165.71 received before quitting, the track would have received $555.34, not $483.69.

At track B (16% take-out),$6331.44 received before quitting, the track would have received $490.69.

I'll let you do the rest of the math.

Mai Pen Lai, khop

[Figman]

Raybo,
Don't mess with QUE, he always on the mark with his math and once again is correct. The $555.34 that you came up with would be based on a track-horsemen split of 7.75% assigned to the 14% takeout and that is incorrect. The correct split related to the 14% takeout as stated by QUE is 6.75%, as
6.75 plus 6.75 plus 0.50 equals 14.0

[raybo]

RE:< Raybo,
Don't mess with QUE, he always on the mark with his math and once again is correct. The $555.34 that you came up with would be based on a track-horsemen split of 7.75% assigned to the 14% takeout and that is incorrect. The correct split related to the 14% takeout as stated by QUE is 6.75%, as
6.75 plus 6.75 plus 0.50 equals 14.0>

I'm just repeating the facts he stated: At track "A" (14% take-out), $7165.71 contributed to the track's handle. If the track actually receives 7.75% of this amount then: $7165.71 x 7.75% =$555.34 (not $490.69 as he mis-stated) I am not "messing" with him. I agree with most of what he said but to think that the same percentage taken from a larger amount is actually smaller than from a smaller amount is mathmatically impossible, unless I'm missing something that wasn't included in the statement. 7.75% of $7165 is certainly larger than 7.75% of $6331, and always will be.

[Figman]

When the total takeout is 14%, the track gets 6.75%.
When the total takeout is 16%, the track gets 7.75%
What is misstated?

The comparison is 6.75% of $7165.71 that results in $483.69

compared to

7.75% of $6,331.44 that results in $490.69.

[Dave Schwartz]

Que,

Well done!

Very well explained. Thanks.

Dave

[raybo]

RE:<When the total takeout is 14%, the track gets 6.75%.
When the total takeout is 16%, the track gets 7.75%
What is misstated?>

My mistake, I didn't notice the 2 different percentages. As I said , I agreed with most of what he said but thought this part of his statement was in error.

I appologize, Que.

[alysheba88]

ITP and Pace are the few voices of reason here. Shocked that some seem to be WELCOMING an increase in takeout. Really shocking.

As far as NYRA borrowing money to meet shortfalls does anyone have specific proof that these shortfalls came about SOLELY because of reduced takeout? Or were there other reasons for it? Without definitive proof it is quite a leap to suggest that reducing takeout in any way contributed. My understanding is these shortfalls came about for several reasons and were occuring well before takeout cuts. If I am mistaken would like to hear.

Takeout should be 10% across the board on every bet at every track

[WINMANWIN]

To my knowledge NYRA had financial problems for years with the
Kenny Noe Era. When one thinks about increasing the takeouts
at these tracks that have slots, video lottery terminals, card
parlours etc, MORE MONEY is being generated for the tracks, horsemen, state etc. If more money is generated for everyone,
Why cant the players get a fair shake, We are the 1s' that have supported this game for decades, and should benefit, just like the other parties involved. They are so greedy, and ruthless, they
wont care about us, untill we let it beknown, that we are sick
and tired of being overlooked and insulted. Many of these tracks have had slots for some years now, and should have REDUCED THE TAKEOUT yrs ago. I know the players panel addressed this
issue in the symposium mths ago, but politics will prevail like usual
and us players will still be left with higher takeouts :mad:

[takeout]

Originally posted by alysheba88 (MW)

Takeout should be 10% across the board on every bet at every track
AMEN!

That would be a good start. Then they could lose the breakage and withholding and make the income tax filing a lot more fair. THEN they might see some real money flowing into the pools from all over the world.

[alysheba88]

The "Genius" of the tracks is that they are actually able to get player against player stuff going rather than the focusing on the REAL issue, player vs track. They get the average player to think that rebate or high volume bettors are the real enemy and that higher takeout is "no big deal"

Shocked so many here are falling for this blatant and shamless manipulation.

Takeout- Absolutely, on all of those. Especially the tax situation

[so.cal.fan]

Good point, Alysheba.

Your comment on: Takeout should be 10% across the board on every bet at every track "

I have been saying this for the past FORTY years!
Along with many others who can see this is the ONLY answer.
People say....."never happen"............perhaps when racing has been pronounced DEAD?
It will be resurrected by FINALLY adopting this policy.
Look, with so much GAMBLING all over the planet.......doesn't it make perfect sense to make horseracing the BEST gamble one can make? It is a participation sport, if our takeout was 10% on every and all wagers.........how much money would be in our pools within a year's time?
ADVERTISE.....ADVERTISE.......ADVERTISE..........
HEY PLAYERS! HORSERACING IS THE BEST BANG FOR YOUR BUCK ANYWHERE!!!!!! 10% TAKEOUT....
Even average players with a bit of skill in money management would have a great chance of breaking even or even winning a few bucks.
The highly skilled would make six figure incomes.

[Tom]

And the horemen support this in order to get theri own bills passed. I say screw the NYRA horseman and will take betting dollar elsewhere.
Not that horsemen everywhere aren't narrow-minders greedycheaters, but the NYRA ones take the cake.
This is like letting the dishwashers decide policy for the restauraunts. The hired help should keep thier mouths shut.

[breakage]

If this takeout increase passes I would think that an NYRA boycott needs to be implemented by horseplayers. These "takeout increase" people need to be hit over the head with something.

[kenwoodallpromos]

1) States determine takeout. / 2) bettors are considered like coffee drinkers at restaurants- owners are considered the steak and desert customers. / 3) All politicians are like jackasses- you have to use a 2x4 to get their attention. / 4) solution- ALL bettors report losses to IRS, not just winnings; survey of money spent and % of bettors that vote. Have tracks give credit to old bettors for bringing in new bettors, like new subscriber referrals.

[Figman]

Kenwood,
It may be that "states determine takeout" in most areas of the US but it is slightly different in NY. The track can determine their own takeout rate within a set range and the ranges are different depending on the type of wager - regular (win,place,show) multiple (two horses or two races), exotic (three or more horses or races) or super-exotic (defined in NY as the pick-six). The NY Senate proposal is to adjust the ranges upward that would force an increase on NYRA. It is doubtful that the NY Assembly and Governon Pataki would go along with this proposal. It was the Governor who put the range of takeout into the law just last year.

In NY, the only nonprofit pari-mutuel association is NYRA: Here is their governing section of the NY Racing Law that addresses takeout:
S 229. Disposition of pari-mutuel pools of nonprofit racing
associations; percentage payable to state as a tax; authority of
counties or certain cities to impose a tax. 1. (a) Every nonprofit
racing association authorized under this chapter to conduct pari-mutuel betting at a race meeting or races run thereat shall distribute all sums deposited in any pari-mutuel pool to the holders of winning tickets therein, provided such tickets be presented for payment before April first of the year following the year of their purchase, less an amount which shall be established and retained by such nonprofit racing association of between twelve to seventeen per centum of the total deposits in pools resulting from on-track regular bets, and fourteen to twenty-one percentum of the total deposits in pools resulting from on-track multiple bets and fifteen to twenty-five per centum of the total deposits in pools resulting from on-track exotic bets and fifteen
to thirty-six per centum of the total deposits in pools resulting from on-track super exotic bets, plus the breaks.

[kenwoodallpromos]

I just finished reading Crist's "Pick 6 of Me" about Crist getting the state to lower the WPS takeout so I got uppiyty and it was old stuff!!

[PaceAdvantage]

It's funny how the horsemen DON'T support a takeout raise, HOWEVER, if this bill currently circulating were to include certain additional restrictions and checks placed on NYRA, THEN the horsemen would be for the bill.

Politics as usual....horsemen understand that raising takeout is no solution, but to get what they want (a quicker solution to the funds borrowed by NYRA from the purse account and tighter monitoring of NYRA's inner workings), they would back a takeout hike, even though they know it isn't good for them.

So, the NYS Assembly will in effect bribe the horsemen into backing this bill, most likely. Great way to solve the problem....

[karlskorner]

Yours "great way to solve the problem"

The "problem" is the NYRA. All of a sudden the horesemen are the bad guys for backing a bill to get back their 40 Mil. If I used your credit card to pay off my expenses, would you call it borrowing or theft. NYRA made the "problem", not the horsemen.

[PaceAdvantage]

I'm not saying the horsemen are bad guys for wanting their money. If NYRA did indeed wrongly take money that belonged to the horsemen (and this has yet to be spelled out anywhere that I can find), then by all means they should do eveything in their power to get what is rightfully theirs.

However, they are going to back that bill for all the wrong reasons, and they even ADMIT this!

Richard Bomze, president of the organization [the New York Thoroughbred Horsemen's Association], said it wouldn't support a takeout increase on its own but, if horsemen get legislation to open up NYRA's operations, they would be willing to back Larkin's bill.

Complete Article Here (http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=21555)

[Figman]

A couple of interesting items on Tuesday's New York Racing and Wagering Board monthly meeting agenda. See especially #9!

AGENDA
NEW YORK STATE RACING AND WAGERING BOARD
MEETING OF MARCH 30, 2004

ITEMS TO BE APPROVED, DENIED OR DEFERRED BY THE BOARD

1. IN THE MATTER OF RICHARD E. DUTROW, JR.

2. IN THE MATTER OF HERIBERTO S. FIGUEROA

3. IN THE MATTER OF DIANE PAPELIAN

4. IN THE MATTER OF ALBERT ROSSI

5. NOTICE OF ADOPTION – FOUL RIDING DISQUALIFICATION RULE – 4035.2(b)

6. FINGER LAKES REQUEST FOR APPROVAL OF RACING OFFICIALS FOR 2004

7. FINGER LAKES REQUEST TO WITHDRAW FROM CIF - $113,262.63

8. NYRA REQUEST FOR LICENSING PROVISIONS

9. NYRA REQUEST TO REDUCE TAKEOUT ON PICK 6

10. SARATOGA HARNESS REQUEST TO WITHDRAW FROM CIF - $92,485.08

11. YONKERS RACEWAY TRACK LICENSE APPLICATION FOR 2004
12. YONKERS RACEWAY SIMULCAST LICENSE APPLICATION FOR 2004

13. NEW YORK CITY OTB REQUEST TO APPOINT NEW CONTROLLER & TREASURER

ITEMS FOR BOARD INFORMATION/DISCUSSION

1. GAMES OF CHANCE – BINGO REGISTRATION NUMBERS – MARCH

2. GAMES OF CHANCE – BELL JAR TICKETS – MARCH

3. GAMES OF CHANCE LICENSED BINGO & GAMES OF CHANCE SUPPLIERS – MARCH

4. INDIAN GAMING - LICENSING STATISTICS FOR FEBRUARY 2004

5. LICENSING – CURRENT RACING LICENSING COUNT AS OF MARCH 2004

6. STATE REGISTER PUBLICATION – EMERGENCY RULEMAKING THOROUGHBRED TRIFECTA – RULE 4011.22

[Kappa]

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
Politics as usual....horsemen understand that raising takeout is no solution, but to get what they want (a quicker solution to the funds borrowed by NYRA from the purse account and tighter monitoring of NYRA's inner workings), they would back a takeout hike, even though they know it isn't good for them.

....

It's amazing! Track management STEALS the horsemen's money without their knowledge and it's called borrowing. That's as bad as our politicians taking bribes and calling it political contributions. What a wonderful language English is!!:D

[PaceAdvantage]

Not trying to defend NYRA or anything, but has there ever been an investigation into this allegation that they stole or borrowed? Who exactly brought these charges? Has NYRA even admitted any wrongdoing?

Like I said, I've never seen ANYTHING OFFICIAL on the web or in print detailing these charges, when they took place, exactly how much money is involved, etc. etc.

If anyone has access or knowledge of an OFFICIAL report on this issue, I'd like to see it.

[alysheba88]

karls korner, so horseplayers like us should be punished?

Is there ANY proof of ANY kind that reduced takeout led to NYRA's financial problems? Have not seen one shred of evidence.

I will not forget the arrogance of Bomze. If this increased takeout goes through I am done with NY racing and will encourage everyone else to boycott.. Let those crooked juicing trainers choke on their reduced purses.

They are SPITTING in your face and every horse players face. Spitting in it and showing utter contempt for you and your existence. They laugh at all horseplayers and feel "the suckers will pay any price".

If someone "steals" (and I admit nothing about NYRA doing that that since I have seen no facts) my money do I have the obligation to now steal from a innocent third party?

[karlskorner]

http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=21555

Alysheba

Gas is now $1.96.9 at my local Mobil station and I can't do a damn thing about it except boycott and not drive.

[alysheba88]

Ridiculous analogy karl. Sorry.

You can choose to drive a fuel efficient car. Just like you can choose to play at a more takeout friendly track.

I would go as far to switch most of my action offshore and NON Pariimutuel. Therefore depriving them of any legal handle and resulting benefits. I will not go to a restaurant where the manager spits in my face.

I read that bloodhorse article earlier and that made me even madder.

[karlskorner]

Your right, the analogy is ridiculous, I just came back from filling up the tank.

If you read the article, did you read the part where Barry Schwartz/NYRA denied taking even one penny from the Horsemen, I couldn't find it. Rather he stated NYCOTB should focus on the expense side of their business, if they are having such trouble making a profit. Now thats the pot calling the pan black. Problem seems to be NYCOTB doesn't have anbody to borrow 40 Mill. from.

I also agree, if you don't like the "takeout" and it's going to make that much of a difference in your year end profit, move on. NYRA has a "problem" and it shouldn't be yours.

[alysheba88]

Im sorry but I dont follow or understand.

Seems like you are defending the OTB's and blaming Schwartz.

[alysheba88]

Raising takeout may suck life out of N.Y. Racing




By: Nick Kling , The Record 03/26/2004




Imagine a scenario where your doctor says that you may have a fatal disease. If the unlikely diagnosis is correct, you'll die within a year. If wrong, you'll be fine.


There is one treatment that could keep you alive for 10 years. Unfortunately, if you decide upon that treatment you are sure to expire at the end of that time period. To make matters worse, the medicine makes you infectious. Your immediate family will die as well.
Sound like a difficult situation? Well, that could be where New York thoroughbred racing is headed if William Larkin and Richard Bomze have their way.
Larkin, the chairman of the New York State Senate's Racing and Wagering Committee, has introduced legislation that would raise the takeout on wagers made on New York Racing Association (NYRA) races.
According to a recent article on Daily Racing Form's internet website, the bill would boost takeout by at least two percentage points on win, place, and show bets and 2½ points on two-horse wagers.
Takeout is the amount of money deducted from bets before payoffs are calculated and winners paid. It is used to fund race purses, provide operating money for the racing association and pay taxes.
The Daily Racing Form article went on to say that the Larkin measure is designed to raise money for NYRA, its horsemen, New York's six regional off-track betting corporations, as well as state and local governments.
Steve Casscles, an aide to Senator Larkin, was quoted as saying that some people believe the current low takeout rate is the reason NYRA is losing money.
Bomze is president of the New York Thoroughbred Horsemen's Association (NYTHA). NYRA reportedly owes his group a huge sum, perhaps more than $20 million. He has endorsed Larkin's bill, apparently because the senator has also introduced a measure that would require more public scrutiny of NYRA's finances and operation, as well as provide for an NYTHA member to be seated on NYRA's Board of Trustees.
There is one glaring flaw in the Larkin plan to raise takeout. There is no substantive proof that higher takeout will raise the expected revenues, and there is abundant evidence that it will actually lower them over time. If the latter assertion is correct, the relatively high purses that NYRA pays horsemen like Bomze will disappear.
In the March 2004 issue of New York Racing, the NYTHA newsletter, Bomze wrote a column titled "We don't know how lucky we are.''
In it he lauds the NYRA purse structure, comparing it glowingly to the lower levels at the so-called premier Gulfstream race meet. In addition, Bomze comments how NYRA betting handle has increased since the year 2000.
According to a 2003 NYRA press release, NYRA's handle climbed $223 million between 2000 and 2002. The former was the last full year under an old takeout plan, while the latter was the first full year under the current schedule.
The $223 million was more than the seven percent increase that NYRA Chairman and CEO Barry K. Schwartz said was needed for lower takeout to be revenue neutral to the racing association, based on NYRA calculations. Assuming NYRA's figures were correct, and there has been no decline in the percentage rise in handle since, raising takeout is very likely to drive handle back down to pre-2001 levels. That means that everyone - horsemen, NYRA, state government, and YOU - will lose money.
One must presume a few politicians know how to do math. If that's true, then a measure to raise takeout would suggest one of three possibilties. The first is that someone does not accept the NYRA handle figures.
A second prospect is that skeptics do not correlate the rise in handle with the drop in takeout rates - despite the clear match in the timeline.
Finally, there exists a third alternative. That is, the presence of another agenda altogether. Could it be that the six regional OTB corporations want higher takeout? Follow the money.
Some were not in favor of the July 2001 drop in the rate. The OTBs fought an additional takeout reduction when NYRA proposed it last summer, presenting figures that showed their revenue declined after the 2001 change. As a result, a further reduction was shelved.
The OTBs, and the local governmental entities they represent, are the only parts of the takeout equation that appear to benefit significantly if it is raised.
There is little question about the notion that NYRA's operations should be under public scrutiny, and giving the NYTHA a seat on the Board can't hurt.
The secondLarkin measure is fine. However, Bomze's decision to support the takeout bill could become the ultimate deal with the devil for New York horsemen.
Higher takeout is almost certain to mean less money bet on NYRA races, just assurely as higher prices for any non-essential product drive down consumption. Gamblers have too many betting alternatives today.
There is one thing about which there is little debate. Since the lower takeout on NYRA racing was installed in July, 2001, more than $95 million extra has been returned to winning bettors. It would be more than $100 million now if the proposed additional drop had been enacted in 2003.
Raising takeout presents the very real scenario of slowly bleeding New York racing to death as customers choose other options. Politicians and their well-connected allies win in the short run. New York's horsemen, breeders, agricultural economy and racing fans will be the losers.

Nick Kling is The Record's horse racing columnist and handicapper. His column appears Tuesday, Friday and Saturday.

[PaceAdvantage]

Article says it all. There is certainly an agenda at work here, and it ain't to the benefit of the horseplayer, OR the horsemen, and THEY KNOW IT!

But they will still back this bill, even though NYRA is under more scrutiny now than at any other time in its history.

Doesn't make much sense. Something else must be afoot.

[BillW]

A few years ago it seemed that we were doomed to racing in only a few large venues. But with Frankie and the NYRA working so hard to reverse that trend, I am now more optimistic than ever that smaller venue racing will thrive for a long time to come.

Bill