THOUGHTS ABOUT BHP CLOSING

[v j stauffer]

I remember like it was yesterday the first time my Grandparents brought me to Hollywood Park. It was 1969, I was ten years old. At first I was very disappointed. As we drove up I saw The Forum and thought I was being taken to a Lakers game. Not a lot of those in the summer though. Then the huge grandstand caught my eye. Grandpa liked to come on weekdays. Better chance at getting good seats. They had both spent the morning mapping out their picks. Grandma by reading the newspaper handicappers and Grandpa by attacking the racing form. When he'd decide on his pick he'd circle the name over and over again until it seemed as if no others were in the race.

The program had those boxes on the top of each page where you could write in the results. My grandmother would be so meticulous about making sure she filled in the order of finish and the payoffs. I think she might have been watching for a pattern of which numbers were coming in. She was a two dollar show bettor. Her running total was always something between + 60 cents to minus a buck twenty. I think she enjoyed the book keeping part as much as the races themselves.

I remember almost nothing about the actual running of the races. They were a total blur. I do remember rooting for my Grandma's horse by being fixated on the blinking numbers on the tote board. The pack seemed a mile away and the announcer kind of like a low drone in the background. Those blinking numbers were everything. When the favorite's number would show up on the list it was only then a huge cheer would come from the crowd. When the field turned for home everyone would stand and scream. I could barely see. Then for a fleeting second the leader would pass by. You could finally see the number. Just for a few strides. What a rush. A rush that would last only a few seconds. A rush that still pulls me 44 years later.

Grandma almost always had a cashable ticket. Grandpa, we never quite knew for sure. He'd have tickets in both pockets. The show to Grandma pocket and the don't show to Grandma pocket. I never got the feeling he was winning much. I'm pretty sure though he was firing with both barrels. Getting your bets in on time was a constant consideration. Grandma would have to leave no later than 10 minutes to post to avoid getting shut out. Grandpa would always wait to the last minute. How'd he do that? It wasn't until many years later I finally figured it out. He was going to the $50 dollar window where there were very few in line. Pretty sure Grandma never caught on.

Those were my first days at Hollywood Park. Tomorrow I face the beginning of my last days.

In some ways the feelings are just the same as 44 years ago.

In some ways they are very different.

Tomorrow I'm not sure I want to go.

[kingfin66]

Well, I hope you do go, because it just wouldn't feel right without you calling the races.

[Track Collector]

Hi Vic,

I've never been to BHP so I want to get a visit in and add them to my "track collection" before they close for good. I expect to purchase airline tickets over the next few days. My visit dates will likely be 12/05 thru 12/08. I'm sure your weather will be much nicer than what it will be here on the East Coast. :)

Any suggestions on inexpensive places to lodge?


Chris

[v j stauffer]

Hi Vic,

I've never been to BHP so I want to get a visit in and add them to my "track collection" before they close for good. I expect to purchase airline tickets over the next few days. My visit dates will likely be 12/05 thru 12/08. I'm sure your weather will be much nicer than what it will be here on the East Coast. :)

Any suggestions on inexpensive places to lodge?


Chris

I'm partial to the Courtyard Marriott Lax/El Segundo.

It's nice, clean and quiet. About 4 miles from the track.

www.marriott.com (http://www.marriott.com) usually has very good "pay in advance" rates.

Remind me when you come to town and I'll leave you guys some passes.

Safe trip.

VJS

[Stillriledup]

Hi Vic,

I've never been to BHP so I want to get a visit in and add them to my "track collection" before they close for good. I expect to purchase airline tickets over the next few days. My visit dates will likely be 12/05 thru 12/08. I'm sure your weather will be much nicer than what it will be here on the East Coast. :)

Any suggestions on inexpensive places to lodge?


Chris

Its So Cal, so, its hard to find inexpensive places to lodge in areas that are not considered "bad areas". Rule of thumb is that the lower the price, the less you get.

The best places to stay if you're interested in enjoying a vacation and being somewhat close to Hollywood is in Manhattan Beach and the surrounding areas.

I hit up expedia and put in your dates and found the Springhill Suites in Hawthorne for 95 a night. There's free parking and free internet. That's the best i could do for you. ;)

[Stillriledup]

Its the end of an era Vic, hard core types like us are going to be sad when the last race is run no doubt. I know that last stretch run is going to be incredibly emotional for you. Tons of great racing there, the first Breeders Cup was at Hollywood in 1984, who could ever forget the Classic that year, one of the all time greatest races in history.

Its going to be sad.

[v j stauffer]

Hi Vic,

I've never been to BHP so I want to get a visit in and add them to my "track collection" before they close for good. I expect to purchase airline tickets over the next few days. My visit dates will likely be 12/05 thru 12/08. I'm sure your weather will be much nicer than what it will be here on the East Coast. :)

Any suggestions on inexpensive places to lodge?


Chris

Just checked the Marriott website. $87 per night for your days. Believe me that's a great deal. This hotel is off the main busy roads in more of an office building type area.

You should gobble up this deal. Not likely to do better. Totally worth it.

[PoloUK6108]

I've never attended BHP either, and wish I could. It looks beautiful on television, although I'm sure it looks rough up close. But then again, isn't that every racetrack? It's a shame BHP couldn't survive at least a few more years so I could see it in person.

Vic, you're one of the best in my book, and while I wouldn't wish the job on anyone, I look forward to hearing as many of your calls as I can this final meeting. I'm confident you'll not disappoint.

[v j stauffer]

Its the end of an era Vic, hard core types like us are going to be sad when the last race is run no doubt. I know that last stretch run is going to be incredibly emotional for you. Tons of great racing there, the first Breeders Cup was at Hollywood in 1984, who could ever forget the Classic that year, one of the all time greatest races in history.

Its going to be sad.

A DVD we produced chronicling the entire 75 years of Hollywood Park is airing on TVG at 7:30 Thurs. morning. 10:30 in the east.

Think you'll really like it. Suggest you check it out.

[redshift1]

Hollywood Park, best harness racing on the west coast for years.

[v j stauffer]

Hollywood Park, best harness racing on the west coast for years.

It's interesting you say that. After we finished the DVD I lamented not mentioning Western Harness. It's certainly part of Hollywood Park's lore.

Niatross raced there. I was there the night Shelly Goudreau was killed driving a horse named Reagan's Lad.

[BombsAway Bob]

A DVD we produced chronicling the entire 75 years of Hollywood Park is airing on TVG at 7:30 Thurs. morning. 10:30 in the east.

Think you'll really like it. Suggest you check it out.

Vic, first off i want to say how much i enjoy your racecalls.
(i'll never forget your "Quake"call watching on TVG.)
Actually, TVG is where i first Got to enjoy HollywoodPark Action,
since as an East-Coast Guy my old betting schedule would be:
Work by 6AM, leave Deli by Noon, get to RockinghamPark by One.
Three Hours of Beers/Bets going screen-2-screen, home by Five for
dinner so the Girlfriend wasn't too upset.
So i Never got to bet HollywoodPark pre-2005.
Felt the excitement on TVG Friday Nights. Fun with younger crowd,
Live concerts & stuff like Bikini-Beach Dash promotion- smart ideas.
Keep Up the Great Work!

[Stillriledup]

It's interesting you say that. After we finished the DVD I lamented not mentioning Western Harness. It's certainly part of Hollywood Park's lore.

Niatross raced there. I was there the night Shelly Goudreau was killed driving a horse named Reagan's Lad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbpXKI0v27c

[SandyW]

I remember driving across the country from New Jersey in November of 1969
to see Del Insko win the $100,000 American Pacing Championship with the great Overcall with his 22nd win in a row and was retired on that night.

I hope that the people that are closing this great track can sleep at night, it amazes me that the California horsemen and breeders could ever let anybody close this great historic race place.

[Stillriledup]

I remember driving across the country from New Jersey in November of 1969
to see Del Insko win the $100,000 American Pacing Championship with the great Overcall who on that night was retired with twenty-two consecutive wins.

I hope that the people that are closing this great track can sleep at night, it amazes me that the California horsemen and breeders could ever let anybody close this great historic race place.




I could be wrong about this, but didnt Churchill Downs essentially sell this place to the "killers"?

They sold it to someone who didnt want to keep it as a racetrack and they knew this when they sold it.

[Topcat]

very sad-lots of good memories with my Dad etc

[JustRalph]

Go out there and give the best calls of your career! Go out on top!

[wisconsin]

Glad that I have been there once. Sad to see an institution like this close. When I was there, I also felt sad gazing over at a seldom used Forum.

[jahura2]

Vic, I dont know you, have heard you for years, and you appear to be one of the class acts on this forum. Best wishes to you as you move forward, enjoy this last meet like its your final chance to go to the races. When its all over, move back here to the midwest and start all over again!

[lamboguy]

we are all sad to see the ending days of Hollywood Park, thank you for all the great calls you have made throughout the years.

[Augenj]

Sorry to see you go, Vic. You have a great voice for making race calls. I often went to Hollywood Park when I lived in the L.A. basin in the 70's. Many times I left work near the airport at lunch time to bet a $5 exacta in the 4th race and then hurry back before lunch was over. Back then, exotic bets were sparse during a race day. Good luck in the future! :ThmbUp:

[elhelmete]

Grew up in Boston so my earliest racetrack memories were created at Suffolk, the Rock, Foxboro, and Scarborough. This was toward the end of the TB circuit days between SUF and RKM.

Moved to SoCal in '99 and wasn't deeply into horse racing at that particular juncture. Hollywood felt very familiar...going there felt like going to the track. Driving through Inglewood didn't feel much different than threading through Eastie.

Then I discovered Santa Anita. I was intimidated at first...you know...Boston guy being used to the old Garden with rats and no AC, and nice but cramped Fenway Park as well as the aforementioned racetracks...I fell in love and stopped going to HOL.

When I dipped into owner partnerships my view on HOL changed. I loved the Friday night cards. I loved the boxes more than those at SA. Not a fan of Poly in general, but the guys at HOL maintain it well and it's a reliable surface.

My two favorite wins as a partnership owner happened at HOL.

I'll miss it for what it was.

[ronsmac]

As a kid my dad took me to half the tracks from maryland to new England. So I thought going to Hollywood park as an 18yo stationed in California in 1986 wouldn't be a big deal. How wrong I was. The parking lot was so crowded me and my buddy missed the first race. The lines at the windows were 30 deep. the only time I had seen anything like this was at the Preakness or Belmont Stakes and this was just a regular Saturday. I was in total awe and will always remember that day. It's sad to see them close.

[Lasix67]

I as many others will hate to see the end come for Hollywood Park. Vic, if you don't mind me asking, what are your plans once the meet concludes? Are you planning on joining another race track as their announcer? Sure am going to miss you at HP, and good luck.

[Stillriledup]

I as many others will hate to see the end come for Hollywood Park. Vic, if you don't mind me asking, what are your plans once the meet concludes? Are you planning on joining another race track as their announcer? Sure am going to miss you at HP, and good luck.

We miss Vic at Gulf. Vic should call the "BHP at SA" meet that starts in late April and runs all the way to Dmr. ;)

[proximity]

I was there the night Shelly Goudreau was killed driving a horse named Reagan's Lad.

my friend frank cotolo dedicated his classic racing book pony player to shelly goudreau, even calling the first chapter "waiting for goudreau." in fact, the whole book was about his experiences playing the horses at Hollywood.

personally, as an east coast player, I admit i will miss the relaxing late Charles town afternoons listening to you call the winning horse's dams and sires on mother's and father's days on the simulcast of the track of the lakes and flowers!!

[BlueShoe]

Have been going to Hollywood Park since 1959, rather doubt if many, or perhaps even none, on this forum can top that, :) and the memories are many and deep. Most surely will attend live a few times, and intend to be there on Dec. 22, the end of the line day. Last summer when I was there the section of the upper grandstand where I used to hang out with about a dozen of my buddies was not even being used. Sad to recall how many old friends and familiar faces are no longer here, or have just vanished. Back in the late 60's, 70's and 80's many of us would park in the Forum lot to save parking fees and make the easy walk to the track. More than once would get stuck in traffic and have to run from the Forum to the track in order to make my race, something that I could not manage today. :D

Hollywood Park during it's years of greatness offered top notch racing, on a par with any other track in the nation, in the opinion of many. Saw many a great and near great horse compete, too many to mention here, and countless mere very good ones. Harry Henson was the track announcer, one of very best to ever take the mic at any racetrack, anytime.

[Stillriledup]

Have been going to Hollywood Park since 1959, rather doubt if many, or perhaps even none, on this forum can top that, :) and the memories are many and deep. Most surely will attend live a few times, and intend to be there on Dec. 22, the end of the line day. Last summer when I was there the section of the upper grandstand where I used to hang out with about a dozen of my buddies was not even being used. Sad to recall how many old friends and familiar faces are no longer here, or have just vanished. Back in the late 60's, 70's and 80's many of us would park in the Forum lot to save parking fees and make the easy walk to the track. More than once would get stuck in traffic and have to run from the Forum to the track in order to make my race, something that I could not manage today. :D

Hollywood Park during it's years of greatness offered top notch racing, on a par with any other track in the nation, in the opinion of many. Saw many a great and near great horse compete, too many to mention here, and countless mere very good ones. Harry Henson was the track announcer, one of very best to ever take the mic at any racetrack, anytime.

I'm thinking that for the last ever race at Hollywood Vic needs to start the call Hensonesque like he does for the Henson stake that's run there every year.

"And there they go..." for one last time.

[JohnGalt1]

Vic,

Thanks for doing a great job calling the races at any track you've worked.

And for being one of the people in the industry to participate in forums like this.

As to Hollywood Park---I've never been to California but have bet California races since the late '80's.

Will I miss betting on HP races?

The lifetime numbers of my results.

Del Mar -$20,291.10

Hollywood +$12,022.85

[dilanesp]

Vic is a great announcer. I hope someone else hires him.

I love BHP. I have gone there regularly since I was 6 and saw JO Tobin beat Seattle Slew. It was an especially fun place to be on a big race day, like a Breeders' Cup or a Hollywood Gold Cup back in the day.

But the rational part of me says this is for the best. Lots of tracks need to close, and BHP hasn't turned a profit in a long time.

[pandy]

A DVD we produced chronicling the entire 75 years of Hollywood Park is airing on TVG at 7:30 Thurs. morning. 10:30 in the east.

Think you'll really like it. Suggest you check it out.

Thanks for the heads up, I'll DVR it.

I haven't been there, but I've always felt that it was the best California track to bet and I've enjoyed Vic's calls and the races. It must have been fun in its heyday being at the track to see the best horses and walking past stars like Bing Crosby, Cary Grant, etc.

http://www.seeing-stars.com/play/hollywoodpark.shtml

[wiffleball whizz]

Is there any talk of bhp trying to help workers find other jobs?


Hoping Vic lands someplace good........

[nijinski]

Have been going to Hollywood Park since 1959, rather doubt if many, or perhaps even none, on this forum can top that, :) and the memories are many and deep. Most surely will attend live a few times, and intend to be there on Dec. 22, the end of the line day. Last summer when I was there the section of the upper grandstand where I used to hang out with about a dozen of my buddies was not even being used. Sad to recall how many old friends and familiar faces are no longer here, or have just vanished. Back in the late 60's, 70's and 80's many of us would park in the Forum lot to save parking fees and make the easy walk to the track. More than once would get stuck in traffic and have to run from the Forum to the track in order to make my race, something that I could not manage today. :D

Hollywood Park during it's years of greatness offered top notch racing, on a par with any other track in the nation, in the opinion of many. Saw many a great and near great horse compete, too many to mention here, and countless mere very good ones. Harry Henson was the track announcer, one of very best to ever take the mic at any racetrack, anytime.

From the years you've mentioned , you might have witnessed Slew's
first loss in the Swaps stakes . It must have been packed that day .
Who would have imagined back then it could ever come to an end .

[nijinski]

[QUOTE=v j stauffer]A DVD we produced chronicling the entire 75 years of Hollywood Park is airing on TVG at 7:30 Thurs. morning. 10:30 in the east.

Think you'll really like it. Suggest you check it out.[/QUOT
Is there another airing time for those of us at work ?

Hope things work out well for you in the future Vic !

[alhattab]

Really nice write up Vic. I'm sure many of us have similar fond recollections like yours at various venues. Mine is very similar although it was 3,000 miles away at The Meadowlands when I was 11 in 1980. I was with my parents and grandparents. You had to be 12 to get in and I remember being afraid that they wouldn't let me it, but they did, and I remember the numbers showing the running order being the main thing many people watched and caused a stir in the crowd. A few years later I would take trips to baseball parks with my dad, and we'd hit up the local harness track at night (being near The Big M I was a harness fan). Greenwood and Hazel Park. And my old man pulled the same stunts your grandfather did. They all do, don't they?

Try to enjoy this final meet I'm sure every day it will be difficult to go to work, but once the races start you'll be in your zone.

[dilanesp]

From the years you've mentioned , you might have witnessed Slew's
first loss in the Swaps stakes . It must have been packed that day .
Who would have imagined back then it could ever come to an end .

That was a huge crowd, 70,000 I believe. I was with my parents and we couldn't move around.

The biggest crowd in the history of the track, over 80,000, was actually for, of all things, a tote bag giveaway.

[nijinski]

That was a huge crowd, 70,000 I believe. I was with my parents and we couldn't move around.

The biggest crowd in the history of the track, over 80,000, was actually for, of all things, a tote bag giveaway.

That was indeed a major day , right off the triple crown . A big mistake for the connections but a major draw for Hollywood Park .

[Fingal]

A DVD we produced chronicling the entire 75 years of Hollywood Park is airing on TVG at 7:30 Thurs. morning. 10:30 in the east.

Think you'll really like it. Suggest you check it out.

I'd have to say that was one of he best giveaway promotions Hollywood has ever had. Learned some new things that were before my time, brought back to life some names I hadn't heard in years.

Every so often you see that DVD in the Hollywood Park listings on Ebay, it's well worth the money to have one as it's a keeper.

[gheuks]

The 75th anniversary production was great. I have never been to Hollywood, but I always enjoyed its racing. Its sad to see any track close, but for a track with so much history, both human and equine its down right awful. I wish the best for those who are affected by the closure.

In todays world, racing fans can enjoy racing on tv, internet, and even on cell phones. That being said, there is nothing like being at the track. I'd hope everyone that's able, will make the trip to their local track, or travel to others. Support this great industry....hoping that other tracks wont meet the same fate as Hollywood.

And finally, thank you Vic for all you do to promote this great sport. A true embassador for racing. Hoping to hear your race calls in the future.

[kinznk]

I grew up in Seattle and have attended many sporting events, major league. One of the coolest things ever was walking through the tunnel to my seats at the Rose Bowl, my first big time bowl game. However, I had never been to a big horse track. My list included Longacres, Playfair, Grants Pass, and Emerald. However, this summer I was able to attend BhP. Through this board I got passes from Vic, thank you. He even left passes for a box but I didn't know that but thank you. Nonetheless, arriving their was like entering the Rose Bowl. It was grand, huge, bigger than any track I'd ever been to. The silks on the outside exuded history. We arrived early so I could explore the place. I walked to the rail. I passed the old plastic and somewhat dirty tables that probably haven't been sat in for years but I didn't care. The place was cool. You could imagine the place on a packed day for a big race. Prior to that day the most accomplished horse I'd ever seen was Awesome Gem. The day I went I saw horses, who may not be as accomplished as AG, who have raced on big days in big races. They may not have won them but they were there. I think I even saw a Derby horse run. It may not seem like much but for me it was the big time. 4 horses who ran that day ran in last week's Breeders Cup. Thank you Vic.

[JustRalph]

When I went to "Hollywood Park" I spent a great Friday night in the Turf Club at a table right out front right on the finish line. It was 2003. A couple of tables over was a famous boxer who signed a few autographs for folks who approached him during the night. I think it was Hagler? The waiter tried to tell me it was Sugar Ray, but I'm sure it was not Leonard.

We got in on TVG press passes. I got stuck at a window in line behind Dick Van Patten, who was betting sixty dollar exactas like he was counting the kids on his Tv show. We saw many somewhat recognizable TV types. Terry Hatcher was on the arm of somebody my wife recognized. Not me. Not sure who it was.

On the way up in the elevator we chatted with the small guy who played Mickey on Seinfeld. He was double dating with the guy who played the Super on the Ted Danson show "Becker" The two girls with them didn't seem happy to be there :lol:

My best Hollywood memories are scoring some nice wins there. Horses like Grammarian and Western Pride and some others at huge prices. ten years is a long time ago..........

[pandy]

I watched it last night, great to see all of those great horses like Citation, Swaps, Dr Fager, and so many others. Very well done history of Hollywood Park. Citation bowed his head to the crowd on his farewell walk in front of the stands. I saw Ruffian do the same thing when she was given a standing ovation in the post parade. A lot of these great horses like to play to the crowd.

[craigbraddick]

End of a racetrack dynasty that will go down in history for representing American racing at it's finest.

I join the chorus in hoping Vic finds another calling position again very soon.

Craig

[HPFridays]

TVG uploaded a two minute trailer on Youtube about the Thursday airing of the dvd. I wish they or someone would upload the full dvd to Youtube.

I agree with what many have already written, that Vic would be a great fit for any track looking for an announcer with exceptional skills.

You can take away the track but you can't take away the good memories.

:cool:

[olddaddy]

Vic is a very good race caller, he calls an accurate and honest race. I hope he catches on with a track that I play. Regarding Hollywood, it it a shame that another track with so much history is going away, I have never been to Hollywood but remember how I felt when Washington Park closed.

[wisconsin]

but remember how I felt when Washington Park closed.


A little different as Washington park burned down and was never rebuilt, but sad the same.

I still have my Hollywood Gold Cup coffee mug from my one and only visit in 1996. Geri just could not get past Siphon that day. Was a nice field, got sucked in on Mr. Purple, who was eased badly.

[turninforhome10]

Hey Vic, I think you are the winner for announcer at Hollywood that "witnessed the smartest horse to ever get loose from the post parade". Ashleys Bambino was not going to run for the last season at Hollywood without getting one last tour of the grounds.

[Track Collector]

Remind me when you come to town and I'll leave you guys some passes. VJS

Hello Vic,

Arrangements have been made. It's just me, myself, and I, along with my laptop. I hope to make it on time for the the first race on Thursday (12/05). Then I'll be there through and including Sunday.

It will be nice to meet you, and thanks for the passes! Now I'll have to study up on BHP so that I keep my head above water wager-wise. Those synthetic surfaces can be a challenge to handicap. :)


Chris

[Stillriledup]

I just listened to the final call ever at Fort Erie, Oct 15, 2013 in the 12th race. The winner had a huge lead turning for home and was never in doubt entering the lane, here's how it sounded:


"This historic stretch, this 116 year old stretch, a stretch that is a witness to Northern Dancer and multiple triple crown winners including Dance Smartly, it is Matt Moore and Village Drive running this famous stretch towards this historic finish line potentially for the final time and a salute to the grand old lady, a grand old lady who is still alive.....and kicking"

[Pensacola Pete]

It's a shame. I'm going to really miss those five and six horse fields.

[pandy]

I just listened to the final call ever at Fort Erie, Oct 15, 2013 in the 12th race. The winner had a huge lead turning for home and was never in doubt entering the lane, here's how it sounded:


"This historic stretch, this 116 year old stretch, a stretch that is a witness to Northern Dancer and multiple triple crown winners including Dance Smartly, it is Matt Moore and Village Drive running this famous stretch towards this historic finish line potentially for the final time and a salute to the grand old lady, a grand old lady who is still alive.....and kicking"

I'd like to hear that. I wonder if the race will be on youtube.

[GaryG]

I have plenty of memories from Hollywood, but the two that come to mind are:

Viking Spirit duel with Native Diver in (I think) the 1965 LA Hcp
Seeing Gallant Man in person after seeing him on tv
Seeing Dr Fager
The first BC in 1984. Barely had time to eat breakfast and drive from Arcadia for the 10:30 post

[usedtolovetvg]

"This historic stretch, this 116 year old stretch, a stretch that is a witness to Northern Dancer and multiple triple crown winners including Dance Smartly, it is Matt Moore and Village Drive running this famous stretch towards this historic finish line potentially for the final time and a salute to the grand old lady, a grand old lady who is still alive.....and kicking"

When I was a kid it was Fort Erie, much the same like HP. The Toronto newspapers had their own racing sections. I used to always cheer for my grandmother's horse because when she won she would always give me the ticket to cash... and keep the money. And, you were supposed to be 16 years old to bet and cash but the tellers wouldn't care, they would cash it with a smile. Woodbine would stop for the summer and all the top jockeys and horses would go down the QEW for the summer meet at Fort Erie. I saw the great Northern Dancer break his maiden there.The grandstand was almost 100 years old back then. They called it Little Saratoga. Even as a child, I thought it was the most beautiful park that I ever went to. The track has now been around for 116 years and provided me with a lifetime of memories. And now that is gone too.

[GMB@BP]

It's a shame. I'm going to really miss those five and six horse fields.

You can always go to Aqueduct this winter for your fix.

[wiffleball whizz]

Hello Vic,

Arrangements have been made. It's just me, myself, and I, along with my laptop. I hope to make it on time for the the first race on Thursday (12/05). Then I'll be there through and including Sunday.

It will be nice to meet you, and thanks for the passes! Now I'll have to study up on BHP so that I keep my head above water wager-wise. Those synthetic surfaces can be a challenge to handicap. :)


Chris


Must be nice......week long journeys to elite tracks!!!

Ill be sure to tell your teammates at the lanes your taking the blinds for a valid reason :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Track Collector]

Must be nice......week long journeys to elite tracks!!!

Ill be sure to tell your teammates at the lanes your taking the blinds for a valid reason :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

All those saved $8 Timonium admission fees add up. :p

Usually I can add classic, well-known tracks to my visit collection list at my leisure, but for BHP it is now or never.

My teammates know where I usually go when I miss a night here and there, and sometimes a blind is actually a better option for them. :eek::D


...

[Stillriledup]

Was watching a replay of Common Confusion from July 14th Race 9 at BHP (He's first time gelding for tomorrows race fwiw) and there's a little kid sitting on the turf course in a yellow shirt right by the starting gate, and he's on his knees waiting excitedly for the start of the race and as soon as the gate opens he pretends he's a jockey and starts vigorously "riding"...its really funny, i thought you guys might get a kick out of that :D

[maclr11]

My biggest BHP memory isn't necessarily a good one or a bad one
In 2008 a horse named Waveland Avenue ran two good races one at SA and one early in the Hollywood meet. The race at BHP he circled 3w and ran a really good race to run 4th. He comes back in a MSW on May 24th, 2008. I was 15 years old at the time and scraped together enough to bet $20 WP, keyed him in with 6 horses in a $2 exactor over both thrust and gobbler's knob who won the race and the latter fell over Waveland Avenue. Also keyed him in a P3. So I spent 76 on the race or something which was a ton for me at 15. He makes the lead at the top of the lane and draws off to win by 4 except 50 yards to the wire he goes wrong and goes down, and I was so shell shocked and heartbroken. But good did come out of it for me personally. I watched the replay a bazillion times and I started liking the horse that ran second Dakota Phone. I followed him the rest of his career playing him when I thought he had a chance. Well Dakota Phone in 2010 wins the Breeders Cup Dirt Mile and pays $77. I was still only 17 at the time but had like 8 across on him which was great, but if Gayego gets up for 2nd I have the ex and tri. Gayego was probably the horse that cost me the most money in my life. If he and Crown of Thorns run 1-2 in 2009 and if he gets up for 2nd in 2010. Oh well spilt milk I guess. But I'm glad Dakota Phone came out of it, cause I was so shell shocked by Waveland Avenue I couldn't get over it for a month after the incident.

The other BHP story was last year for Breeders Cup we wanted to get forms as soon as we got off the plane at LAX. We went to BHP to grab forms and we try to find a simulcast center in Hollywood Park not knowing its in the casino next door. We wandered through Hollywood Park for an hour and not a soul was in their. It was super cool, got all the way down into the winner's circle and paddock, walked through the grandstand. I'm glad I got that moment too and eventually we did find the casino next door.

[thespaah]

A DVD we produced chronicling the entire 75 years of Hollywood Park is airing on TVG at 7:30 Thurs. morning. 10:30 in the east.

Think you'll really like it. Suggest you check it out.
VCR is already set.
This is indeed a sad end to an era.
Now, each time I watch the 1984 Breeder's Cup races, I will be reminded that the track is no longer there.

[Peter Berry]

It's interesting you say that. After we finished the DVD I lamented not mentioning Western Harness. It's certainly part of Hollywood Park's lore.

Niatross raced there. I was there the night Shelly Goudreau was killed driving a horse named Reagan's Lad.
Niatross was the best horse ever to race at Hollywood Park. Period. Not even close. The DVD must be done over.

[dilanesp]

Niatross was the best horse ever to race at Hollywood Park. Period. Not even close. The DVD must be done over.

Spectacular Bid and Dr. Fager (who I would rank as 1 and 3 in the history of American thoroughbred racing) both ran at Hollywood Park. And Citation, who I would rank a bit lower but who other people rank as one of the best in history, also ran there. So you are at least going to get an argument.

That said, I really don't know how to go about comparing a standardbred to a thoroughbred. The number of starts, distances, training methods, strategies, etc., are so different.

To pivot a bit, here's my top 10 thoroughbreds to race at Hollywood Park:

1. Spectacular Bid
2. Dr. Fager
3. Swaps
4. Round Table
5. Cigar
6. Kelso
7. Affirmed
8. Citation
9. Seabiscuit
10. Zenyatta

And my top 5 thoroughbred performances:
1. Noor, 1950 Hollywood Gold Cup. Blew by a bunch of what we would now call Grade I horses like they were standing still, including a triple crown winner, 2 Derby winners, and the Horse of the Year. They used to have the film of this race on the in house replay system at the track-- it's visually impressive and all the more amazing when you consider what he was beating.
2. Cigar, 1995 Hollywood Gold Cup. Basically the same as the Noor race, except the field was merely excellent rather than being phenomenal.
3. J.O. Tobin, 1977 Swaps Stakes. Totally misunderstood race, because Seattle Slew partisans are upset in retrospect that he ran in it. But Slew would have actually had difficulty winning this race on his best day. J.O. Tobin set insane fractions (45 and change, 1:09 and change) en route to 1 1/4 miles in 1:58 3/5, 2/5 of a second off the American record at the time.
4. Ferdinand, 1987 Breeders' Cup Classic. Beat an astoundingly strong field, and had to hold off Alysheba, who of course turned out to be a superstar, in thrilling stretch duel. Last hurrah of Willie Shoemaker's career.
5. Chris Evert, 1974 match race. Totally forgotten episode in California racing history. Chris Evert was a really, really, really good filly who won the NYRA Filly Triple Crown (as it was then known) and then came out for a match race against Miss Musket, California's best filly at the time. Track officials were hoping for a replay of the sensational Convenience-Typecast match race of 2 years earlier, which featured a photo finish and multiple rallies by both fillies. Instead, Chris Evert showed just how good she was and trounced Miss Musket by 50 lengths.

[nijinski]

Niatross was the best horse ever to race at Hollywood Park. Period. Not even close. The DVD must be done over.

You have a good point , he is up there . This is someone"s camcorder
video of him . Not a betting race , a time trial when he broke the 1:50 .
I love the stir of the crowd . They really loved that horse .

http://youtu.be/xlZCF-g3__I

[pandy]

To pivot a bit, here's my (dilanesp) top 10 thoroughbreds to race at Hollywood Park:

1. Spectacular Bid
2. Dr. Fager
3. Swaps
4. Round Table
5. Cigar
6. Kelso
7. Affirmed
8. Citation
9. Seabiscuit
10. Zenyatta
11. Niatross

Done. Although I would rate Citation first, Dr. Fager second, Kelso third. But, wow, what a list of horses.

[nijinski]

I agree with all the horses on the last two lists here , but for myself
I would add Seattle Slew , Manila and no question about it it , John Henry !

[pandy]

I'll second all three.

[thespaah]

Me too!

[_______]

http://www.dailynews.com/sports/20131107/top-10-moments-in-history-of-hollywood-park

"1. Zenyatta pulls off the impossible — The all-time greatest filly/mare and arguably the best horse — male or female — to ever race, the incomparable Zenyatta accomplished the near impossible during the lone Oak Tree at Hollywood Park meet on Oct. 2, 2010."

Based on this, I'd like to see it torn down sooner.

Sure it's a cheap shot to ignore a long history of great racing and focus on one poorly informed and completely over the top opinion.

But if the writer who vomited this idiocy onto a keyboard is representative of even a small portion of those who would find succor in the continued existence of Hollywood Park, humanity is better served by it's demise.

We must fight fire with fire.

[stu]

Greatness comparison between generations is always problematic, but I submit that SKIP AWAY deserves consideration to be on this list.

He won both Grade I starts at Hollywood Park making him undefeated in Inglewood where he earned over a third of his career $9.6MM

Hollywood Gold Cup - 2:00.16
Breeders Cup Classic - 1:59.16

I consider myself lucky to have been attendance for both performances.

[v j stauffer]

Niatross was the best horse ever to race at Hollywood Park. Period. Not even close. The DVD must be done over.

It WAS done over. And Over. And over. A 5 1/2 month odyssey and labor of love by myself, Kip Hannon, Bob Mizerski and Roger Roman.

Finally we had to stop fiddling with it knowing full well that we'd miss things and leave things out.

It's 77 minutes we could have done 177 or more. Still regret no Western Harness.

And, until I read this thread tonight I never knew Kelso raced at HP.

Oh well, we did our best.

Heard the other day TVG is airing it three more times. Don't know when.

Love for those of you that haven't seen it to check it out and tell me what you think.

VJS

[dilanesp]

Greatness comparison between generations is always problematic, but I submit that SKIP AWAY deserves consideration to be on this list.

He won both Grade I starts at Hollywood Park making him undefeated in Inglewood where he earned over a third of his career $9.6MM

Hollywood Gold Cup - 2:00.16
Breeders Cup Classic - 1:59.16

I consider myself lucky to have been attendance for both performances.

I loved Skip Away, John Henry, and Alysheba (although he always seemed to get beat at Hollywood Park). Gallant Man was good too. But I wanted to stop at 10.

[dilanesp]

Great BHP announcers:

Joe Hernandez
Hal Moore
Harry Henson
Jim Byers
Michael Wrona
Trevor Denman
Luke Kruytbosch
Vic Stauffer

Not so great BHP announcers:
Bine Masters
Milo Perrins
Don Alexander
Chris Katoulak

[Stillriledup]

Great BHP announcers:

Joe Hernandez
Hal Moore
Harry Henson
Jim Byers
Michael Wrona
Trevor Denman
Luke Kruytbosch
Vic Stauffer

Not so great BHP announcers:
Bine Masters
Milo Perrins
Don Alexander
Chris Katoulak

I think you might bring a tear to Vic's eye by putting him in a list with those guys. He deserves to be there for sure.

[v j stauffer]

I think you might bring a tear to Vic's eye by putting him in a list with those guys. He deserves to be there for sure.

A honor to be included with those gentlemen.

[judd]

vic, how about sharing some of that inside info you get;)

[thespaah]

Great BHP announcers:

Joe Hernandez
Hal Moore
Harry Henson
Jim Byers
Michael Wrona
Trevor Denman
Luke Kruytbosch
Vic Stauffer

Not so great BHP announcers:
Bine Masters
Milo Perrins
Don Alexander
Chris Katoulak
Jim Byers is the radio play by play announcer for the American Hockey League's Oklahoma City Barons.
The Barons will be playing here in January vs the AHL Charlotte team.
I have emailed Jim and told him about PA and in particular the threads about the closing of BHP.
I will get to chat with Jim. I will make a point to get his thoughts on this issue and perhaps his views on the horse racing business in general.

[thespaah]

A honor to be included with those gentlemen.
I simply appreciate your engaging posters on this site.
Have you decided in which career direction you are considering?

[dilanesp]

Jim Byers is the radio play by play announcer for the American Hockey League's Oklahoma City Barons.
The Barons will be playing here in January vs the AHL Charlotte team.
I have emailed Jim and told him about PA and in particular the threads about the closing of BHP.
I will get to chat with Jim. I will make a point to get his thoughts on this issue and perhaps his views on the horse racing business in general.

He came back and called a race this past summer.

He was very good. Just about the most accurate racecaller I ever heard. And he was very young when he worked at BHP (by the way, I should have mentioned Alan Buchdahl in my list-- he also called Hollywood Park for a couple of years when he was young). He got to have some fun early in his career because he caught the last year or so of John Henry's career.

My favorite Byers call was of some horrible last race held in an awful fog during the fall meeting after dark and under the lights. "And there off!" Ten second pause. "The view obstructed early." 40 second pause. "Turning for home, it's...."

[thespaah]

He came back and called a race this past summer.

He was very good. Just about the most accurate racecaller I ever heard. And he was very young when he worked at BHP (by the way, I should have mentioned Alan Buchdahl in my list-- he also called Hollywood Park for a couple of years when he was young). He got to have some fun early in his career because he caught the last year or so of John Henry's career.

My favorite Byers call was of some horrible last race held in an awful fog during the fall meeting after dark and under the lights. "And there off!" Ten second pause. "The view obstructed early." 40 second pause. "Turning for home, it's...."
This one is pretty funny...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCMKmAI479E

[thespaah]

He came back and called a race this past summer.

He was very good. Just about the most accurate racecaller I ever heard. And he was very young when he worked at BHP (by the way, I should have mentioned Alan Buchdahl in my list-- he also called Hollywood Park for a couple of years when he was young). He got to have some fun early in his career because he caught the last year or so of John Henry's career.

My favorite Byers call was of some horrible last race held in an awful fog during the fall meeting after dark and under the lights. "And there off!" Ten second pause. "The view obstructed early." 40 second pause. "Turning for home, it's...."
I have some old VCR tapes which I would like to place onto DVD's.
Some of Byers calls at BHP are on one of them. I'd like to find out the best way to make up a DVD for Mr. Byers and present it to him when he comes to town.
There are races from 1985. The Californian is one such race. This featured Greinton vs Precisionist.

[JustRalph]

I have some old VCR tapes which I would like to place onto DVD's.
Some of Byers calls at BHP are on one of them. I'd like to find out the best way to make up a DVD for Mr. Byers and present it to him when he comes to town.
There are races from 1985. The Californian is one such race. This featured Greinton vs Precisionist.

Look for camera stores (if they still exist) in your area. Many do this for a reasonable fee. If you have a friend who's a geek, They could do it. VHS degrades over time. Make sure the tape still plays, if you have a player.

It's pretty easy to upload to youtube etc once you get it formatted/digitized

That's a great place to make it safe and accessible

[cj]

I'm going to have to make it a point to visit him next time I go to a Barons game.

[usedtolovetvg]

I have some old VCR tapes which I would like to place onto DVD's.
Some of Byers calls at BHP are on one of them. I'd like to find out the best way to make up a DVD for Mr. Byers and present it to him when he comes to town.
There are races from 1985. The Californian is one such race. This featured Greinton vs Precisionist.

StarTech.com... Its called video capture devise. Not that difficult to figure out. You need a VHS machine and computer. Cost about $45 an with that you can transfer all your VHS tapes to DVD, computer or an external drive. I've transferred hours of all tapes, mostly family stuff. It's definitely worth it.

[A. Pineda]

I have many fond memories of Hollywood Park, and one of them is when Telly's Pop came on the scene. He wasn't much to look at, and his feet were messed up, but my wife liked the name and the colors of the silks, so we both played him in his maiden win at HOL. He gave us quite a thrill every time he raced that year in SoCal.

Will miss hearing your calls, Vic. You're top drawer in my book.

[elhelmete]

Did I miss something?

I was at Hollywood Saturday, and the PPs I printed out used BHP in the running lines, but in the summary stats (wins by surface, track, etc.) it used the HOL acronym. Also the betting machines showed the track listed as HOLLYWOOD under the Hs, whereas everytime in the past it's been under the Bs as Betfair yada yada.

?

[horses4courses]

I have many fond memories of Hollywood Park, and one of them is when Telly's Pop came on the scene. He wasn't much to look at, and his feet were messed up, but my wife liked the name and the colors of the silks, so we both played him in his maiden win at HOL. He gave us quite a thrill every time he raced that year in SoCal.

Will miss hearing your calls, Vic. You're top drawer in my book.

He certainly will be missed but, I'd like to think he will be calling races for some time to come.
Where that will be is, of course, up to him.
Best of luck, Vic! :ThmbUp:

[thespaah]

StarTech.com... Its called video capture devise. Not that difficult to figure out. You need a VHS machine and computer. Cost about $45 an with that you can transfer all your VHS tapes to DVD, computer or an external drive. I've transferred hours of all tapes, mostly family stuff. It's definitely worth it.
I went on the site you provided. I'm not seeing what it is you referred to.
Can you give the specific name and model of the product?
Thanks!

[Dark Horse]

I'll miss this track like a lost lover. I'm really trying to savor every moment of this last meet. Hit not one, but two (out of two) exactas this past Saturday that each paid more than 50 to 1. 20% skill, 80% luck, if that, but at this point I'm crazy enough to think it's the track telling me she loves me too.

It's just plain wrong that this track closes. Criminal neglect by a city that should have stepped in to preserve a historic landmark.

[pandy]

I wish I could go before the meets end, never been there. The track has had a dull rail and outside closers/stalkers have been winning, love that type of bias.

[Little Watermelon]

We visited Hollywood for the first and last time Sunday November 17, stayed for about 4 races. I wrote about it extensively on another forum so I won't bore you; the main impressions were that you could picture how beautiful the track must have been in its heyday, that there are some characters there straight out of Bukowski, that there were a good amount of people there, surprising at the $10 admission price, but that most people were burrowed under the stands in the dark, also seemed like it took a long time to get there. Sorry to see it close as there are some nice people working there; a beer seller told my wife that they are renovating the Forum as a music venue and possible home to the Clippers and that most of the Hollywood workers he knew hoped to get jobs there.

[dilanesp]

We visited Hollywood for the first and last time Sunday November 17, stayed for about 4 races. I wrote about it extensively on another forum so I won't bore you; the main impressions were that you could picture how beautiful the track must have been in its heyday, that there are some characters there straight out of Bukowski, that there were a good amount of people there, surprising at the $10 admission price, but that most people were burrowed under the stands in the dark, also seemed like it took a long time to get there. Sorry to see it close as there are some nice people working there; a beer seller told my wife that they are renovating the Forum as a music venue and possible home to the Clippers and that most of the Hollywood workers he knew hoped to get jobs there.

The Forum is being renovated for music, but not for basketball. The Clippers aren't moving out of Staples Center, with its 180 luxury boxes and thousands of club seats, and its downtown location, for the Forum.

[BlueShoe]

I wrote about it extensively on another forum so I won't bore you; the main impressions were that you could picture how beautiful the track must have been in its heyday, that there are some characters there straight out of Bukowski
Perhaps not well known is that Bukowski was a dedicated racing fan and a regular attendee at the track. I had a nodding acquaintance with him, and recall talking to him a few times, a who-do-you-like type conversation, never about his work.

[Stillriledup]

Laffit passed Shoe at Hollywood Dec 10, 1999.

[Track Collector]

I just returned from a 4-day visit of (Betfair) Hollywood Park. It was my first visit there and it is now on my track-collecting list.

Weather was on the cool side (upper 50's during the day), but ok nonetheless. It was a little sad in that racing will end forever in just about 2 weeks. A grand facility which still had some remnants of when racing was in its' glory days. As a memento I was able to secure a small sample of the synthetic racing surface "cushion track", which I believe is not used anywhere else in the US.

A BIG thank you to Vic Stauffer, who made a nice trip even more enjoyable! Vic invited me to watch a race or two from the high-up announcer's booth, and secured for me daily passes to the turf club. Listening to Vic call a race so effortlessly underscores the amount of talent and skill it takes to memorize the names, match up the names with the silks, describe the race as it unfolds in an accurate manner, and include the right balance of drama thru voice inflection.

Thanks again Vic, and I wish you well in your future endeavors. :)


Chris

[elhelmete]

Here's something I really like about Vic's work.

It's not just the calls, it's the stuff in between.

From the playing of the National Anthem through the end of the day, I feel like Vic really 'hosts' the day.

There's something about even the way he reads the day's changes, and the light banter/info between races. It makes the day enjoyable and comforting.

My (probably) last day there was the Saturday after Thanksgiving. I spent an hour on the backside including a nice quiet sit on the patio outside the owners' lounge, then sat in an empty box on the clubhouse turn with a cigar and the PPs, getting a little December tan.

[thespaah]

I just returned from a 4-day visit of (Betfair) Hollywood Park. It was my first visit there and it is now on my track-collecting list.

Weather was on the cool side (upper 50's during the day), but ok nonetheless. It was a little sad in that racing will end forever in just about 2 weeks. A grand facility which still had some remnants of when racing was in its' glory days. As a memento I was able to secure a small sample of the synthetic racing surface "cushion track", which I believe is not used anywhere else in the US.

A BIG thank you to Vic Stauffer, who made a nice trip even more enjoyable! Vic invited me to watch a race or two from the high-up announcer's booth, and secured for me daily passes to the turf club. Listening to Vic call a race so effortlessly underscores the amount of talent and skill it takes to memorize the names, match up the names with the silks, describe the race as it unfolds in an accurate manner, and include the right balance of drama thru voice inflection.

Thanks again Vic, and I wish you well in your future endeavors. :)


Chris
That's really cool.
Though I've not met him, Vic seems like one of those genuine people. Nothing pretentious or put on.
I hope to get to meet him one day.
Hopefully he will take an announcing gig on the east coast or somewhere reasonably close to here.

[pandy]

Here's something I really like about Vic's work.

It's not just the calls, it's the stuff in between.

From the playing of the National Anthem through the end of the day, I feel like Vic really 'hosts' the day.

There's something about even the way he reads the day's changes, and the light banter/info between races. It makes the day enjoyable and comforting.

My (probably) last day there was the Saturday after Thanksgiving. I spent an hour on the backside including a nice quiet sit on the patio outside the owners' lounge, then sat in an empty box on the clubhouse turn with a cigar and the PPs, getting a little December tan.

You make a good point. People rarely comment on this, but the track announcer's job is more than just giving the race calls and the part before the races start, and in between races is important too. That's where personality comes into play. Unfortunately, I have not had the pleasure of spending a day at HP but I can imagine that Vic would be a pleasure to listen to throughout a day at the races.

[wiffleball whizz]

Vic to the MJC would be awesome......or maybe Vic can strongarm charlestown a me call there.......

Vic for the record if you come east you will have the whizz riding your coattails up in the booth!!!!!!!

[ronsmac]

Vic to the MJC would be awesome......or maybe Vic can strongarm charlestown a me call there.......

Vic for the record if you come east you will have the whizz riding your coattails up in the booth!!!!!!!
Vic is cool, but Dave Rodman has been Maryland racing for over 20 years. I remember when he first came to Maryland a short time after Trevor finished calling Pimlico's races, and he's been one of my favorite announcers since.

[wiffleball whizz]

Vic is cool, but Dave Rodman has been Maryland racing for over 20 years. I remember when he first came to Maryland a short time after Trevor finished calling Pimlico's races, and he's been one of my favorite announcers since.


Yes Dave rodman is a great announcer....very underrated

Trevor denman used to call pimlico!?!?!?!?

[gheuks]

trevor called the sunday silence easy goer preakness

[098poi]

I've left some cash at Hollywood. Good luck Vic. Thanks for the memories. Found this on the web.

[alhattab]

Vic to the MJC would be awesome......or maybe Vic can strongarm charlestown a me call there.......

Vic for the record if you come east you will have the whizz riding your coattails up in the booth!!!!!!!

I see Vic moving his mic to the East Coast and beautiful Monmouth Park after Collmus announces he is not returning because he will call Gulfstream all summer. C'mon East Vic you'll love the Jersey Shore!

[letswastemoney]

I had a pretty good time visiting Hollywood Park last Saturday.

I'm a little biased though, since I got to spend time with the Rosalind camp. Had she won, I would have been in the winner's circle.

[wiffleball whizz]

I see Vic moving his mic to the East Coast and beautiful Monmouth Park after Collmus announces he is not returning because he will call Gulfstream all summer. C'mon East Vic you'll love the Jersey Shore!


Would be electric

[proximity]

Perhaps not well known is that Bukowski was a dedicated racing fan and a regular attendee at the track. I had a nodding acquaintance with him, and recall talking to him a few times, a who-do-you-like type conversation, never about his work.

i don't have the book in front of me right now, but i recall the cotolo book pony player (post 26) having a chapter about encountering mr bukowski at hollywood and the main character wanting to talk with bukowski, but ultimately wanting to respect his privacy more.

would be great to see vic come to pen and replace boregar!! vic and significant on track rebates would be a great shot in the arm for our racino!!

[Stillriledup]

I've left some cash at Hollywood. Good luck Vic. Thanks for the memories. Found this on the web.

Great pic Poi!

[Track Collector]

Yes Dave rodman is a great announcer....very underrated

True story........you missed the day when Dave Rodman announced wiffleball whizz and Track Collector as the "Timonium fans of the day"!!! :jump: One of the Equibase employees pulled our names off the 2013 Timonium Fair thread on PaceAdvantage.

Sorry, but we did not win anything for that honor. :D

[pondman]

Hollywood Park-- most likely track to get Car Jacked. People have gotten shot, dead in the parking lot for their pick 4 money. Get off the freeway and get to the parking lot. Don't ever stop at an ATM machine. Don't take the wrong turn into a drug enforcement zones. Don't turn down any alleys. Things have calmed down some in Inglewood, but there have been times during the late 80s and early 90s when there should have been surface street warnings. I had the experience of being passed by Cadillac and as I approach the next intersection LAPD and the County Sherriff had the car completely surrounded, and they opened up with the heat.

[ronsmac]

Yes Dave rodman is a great announcer....very underrated

Trevor denman used to call pimlico!?!?!?!?
Yes, that's hard to believe isn't it? I think he did two years 1989 and 1990.

[Stillriledup]

Yes, that's hard to believe isn't it? I think he did two years 1989 and 1990.

He called "Hialeah" in the movie Let It Ride!

[v j stauffer]

Hollywood Park-- most likely track to get Car Jacked. People have gotten shot, dead in the parking lot for their pick 4 money. Get off the freeway and get to the parking lot. Don't ever stop at an ATM machine. Don't take the wrong turn into a drug enforcement zones. Don't turn down any alleys. Things have calmed down some in Inglewood, but there have been times during the late 80s and early 90s when there should have been surface street warnings. I had the experience of being passed by Cadillac and as I approach the next intersection LAPD and the County Sherriff had the car completely surrounded, and they opened up with the heat.

It's now nearly 2014. I've worked there 13 years and haven't seen anything even remotely like that. Let us rejoice in our final seven days without having to read unfounded crap.

[wiffleball whizz]

Vic I can only imagine this has to be a nightmare for you especially around this time of year.........

I guess we are losing a track to bet on your losing your job and so are a lot of other people that's getting lost in the shuffle here.....really hope things work out for the best.......at Monmouth hopefully like another poster posted......


Hollywood park was the first and last place I'll ever have hit the pick 6......

[Stillriledup]

The Native DORFER handicap of 2013, a race to remember!

[dilanesp]

It's now nearly 2014. I've worked there 13 years and haven't seen anything even remotely like that. Let us rejoice in our final seven days without having to read unfounded crap.

The comments people make about BHP's neighborhood, which I have heard many times, are basically a reminder that racism still exists. People just assume any neighborhood with blacks is bad.

Inglewood is not Watts or Compton. Lots of middle class blacks live there. It's crime rate is comparable to many parts of Southern California with different demographics. I have gone to BHP since I was a kid, and nothing has happened to me including when my car broke down after a Friday night card on Century Blvd. past midnight.

Many whites just assume any place where blacks live is full of criminals. It was even a plot point in the movie "Grand Canyon" (involving the Forum next door).

[Stillriledup]

The comments people make about BHP's neighborhood, which I have heard many times, are basically a reminder that racism still exists. People just assume any neighborhood with blacks is bad.

Inglewood is not Watts or Compton. Lots of middle class blacks live there. It's crime rate is comparable to many parts of Southern California with different demographics. I have gone to BHP since I was a kid, and nothing has happened to me including when my car broke down after a Friday night card on Century Blvd. past midnight.

Many whites just assume any place where blacks live is full of criminals. It was even a plot point in the movie "Grand Canyon" (involving the Forum next door).

What is the advantage of assuming a black neighborhood is safe?

[thespaah]

What is the advantage of assuming a black neighborhood is safe?
There isn't...In fact it's a disadvantage. It exposes those who do so as ignorant.
I am just sad that Hol is closing.
This track is the site of the first Breeders Cup for Christ's Sake.
That first Breeders Cup holds a lot of good memories for me. Now the place where it happened will be gone... :mad:

[dilanesp]

What is the advantage of assuming a black neighborhood is safe?

The advantage is in assuming that it is as safe as a white neighborhood with similar income levels and crime rates.

And the content of that advantage is twofold-- (1) you can avail yourself of enjoyable experiences in that neighborhood, such as a racetrack, and (2) you can treat blacks as human beings rather than assuming that there's something about skin color that signifies criminality.

Racists are really bad. Their attitudes contribute to African-American impoverishment. And then they blame blacks for being poor.

[Stillriledup]

The advantage is in assuming that it is as safe as a white neighborhood with similar income levels and crime rates.

And the content of that advantage is twofold-- (1) you can avail yourself of enjoyable experiences in that neighborhood, such as a racetrack, and (2) you can treat blacks as human beings rather than assuming that there's something about skin color that signifies criminality.

Racists are really bad. Their attitudes contribute to African-American impoverishment. And then they blame blacks for being poor.

I don't think people's lives are going to be significantly impacted if they can't attend Hollywood Park because they feel its in a 'bad area'.

Do you have a statistical study that indicates a person who is a victim of a violent crime has an equal chance of that crime being carried out by any race and its just random as who the criminal happens to be?

I think people can be swayed by math and data, do you have some to show that skin color has no bearing on who the muggers, robbers or killers in our society happen to be? You can use data to back up your points.

[dilanesp]

I don't think people's lives are going to be significantly impacted if they can't attend Hollywood Park because they feel its in a 'bad area'.

Actually, I treasure the time I spent at Hollywood Park, both at the racetrack and the casino. Had I been a bigot I might have missed out on all those good times.

Do you have a statistical study that indicates a person who is a victim of a violent crime has an equal chance of that crime being carried out by any race and its just random as who the criminal happens to be?

People aren't statistics. We DO know the crime rate in Inglewood, and it is comparable to crime rates in other parts of Southern California with similar income levels.

But more importantly, the individuals that you meet in life are not statistics. When you meet a priest do you assume he is a child molester? I assure you the rate of child molestation among priests is higher than it is in the rest of the population. And yet it would be highly unfair to a typical priest for you to assume he was a child molester because of those statistics.

People cite these statistics because they WANT to fear and hate black people. The racism comes first, the statistics are just a post hoc justification for the bigotry. Why do I know this? Because I know that when I meet people, I don't think in terms of statistics. I don't assume they must be a bunch of things because the groups they belong to are slightly more likely to have certain beliefs. I get to know them.

So if you are thinking about statistics about criminality, it's because you made a decision to think about statistics about criminality because the people you are dealing with are black.

I think people can be swayed by math and data, do you have some to show that skin color has no bearing on who the muggers, robbers or killers in our society happen to be? You can use data to back up your points.

The reality is the chances of you being mugged, robbed, or killed by ANYONE is very low. This is a very safe country to live in.

And this is a really important point.

So here's some statistics, since bigots are obssessed with them. The crime rate in Los Angeles is approximately 400 murders per 100,000 people per year. In Salt Lake City it is 10 per 100,000 per year.

That means that in Salt Lake City you have a .01 percent chance of being murdered, or a 99.99 percent chance of being murdered. In Los Angeles you have a .25 percent chance of being murdered, or a 99.75 percent chance of not being murdered.

That's what we are really talking about. In both places, basically nobody gets murdered. It's a fraction of a percentage of the population. The average person has nothing to fear at all.

You are talking about judging all black people because of that fraction of a percentage point. And your line of thinking results in blacks getting pulled over, stopped and frisked, imprisoned, black families broken up, etc. All because your white behind is scared of that fraction of a percentage point.

You are not getting murdered. Rather, you are judging people who did nothing to you, and have no interest doing anything to you, based on your irrational fears based on a fraction of a percentage point.

The statistics, properly understood, do not support racism. They make racists look like the jerks they are.

[Greyfox]

So here's some statistics, since bigots are obssessed with them. The crime rate in Los Angeles is approximately 400 murders per 100,000 people per year.

400 murders per 100,000 people???

Nope.
There are 3.85 million people in Los Angeles.
That would put the homicide rate at about 400x38.5 =15,400 people per year!
Yikes.

Actually, the homicide rate in Los Angeles was 7.8 per 100,000 in 2012.
There were 298 murders reported there that year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Los_Angeles

[Stillriledup]

Actually, I treasure the time I spent at Hollywood Park, both at the racetrack and the casino. Had I been a bigot I might have missed out on all those good times.



People aren't statistics. We DO know the crime rate in Inglewood, and it is comparable to crime rates in other parts of Southern California with similar income levels.

But more importantly, the individuals that you meet in life are not statistics. When you meet a priest do you assume he is a child molester? I assure you the rate of child molestation among priests is higher than it is in the rest of the population. And yet it would be highly unfair to a typical priest for you to assume he was a child molester because of those statistics.

People cite these statistics because they WANT to fear and hate black people. The racism comes first, the statistics are just a post hoc justification for the bigotry. Why do I know this? Because I know that when I meet people, I don't think in terms of statistics. I don't assume they must be a bunch of things because the groups they belong to are slightly more likely to have certain beliefs. I get to know them.

So if you are thinking about statistics about criminality, it's because you made a decision to think about statistics about criminality because the people you are dealing with are black.



The reality is the chances of you being mugged, robbed, or killed by ANYONE is very low. This is a very safe country to live in.

And this is a really important point.

So here's some statistics, since bigots are obssessed with them. The crime rate in Los Angeles is approximately 400 murders per 100,000 people per year. In Salt Lake City it is 10 per 100,000 per year.

That means that in Salt Lake City you have a .01 percent chance of being murdered, or a 99.99 percent chance of being murdered. In Los Angeles you have a .25 percent chance of being murdered, or a 99.75 percent chance of not being murdered.

That's what we are really talking about. In both places, basically nobody gets murdered. It's a fraction of a percentage of the population. The average person has nothing to fear at all.

You are talking about judging all black people because of that fraction of a percentage point. And your line of thinking results in blacks getting pulled over, stopped and frisked, imprisoned, black families broken up, etc. All because your white behind is scared of that fraction of a percentage point.

You are not getting murdered. Rather, you are judging people who did nothing to you, and have no interest doing anything to you, based on your irrational fears based on a fraction of a percentage point.

The statistics, properly understood, do not support racism. They make racists look like the jerks they are.


The discussion we are having seemed to start out by you saying that you have "nothing to worry about" and if that's true, why would you feel the need to add "similar income levels" to the discussion?

[dilanesp]

The discussion we are having seemed to start out by you saying that you have "nothing to worry about" and if that's true, why would you feel the need to add "similar income levels" to the discussion?

Um, because you happened to be wrong in 2 DIFFERENT ways?

1. You have nothing to worry about in basically any neighborhood. You can actually go to some of the worst parts of Los Angeles, places whites basically never venture, and the odds of being attacked are tiny.

BUT

2. It is also true that the crime rates in majority black neighborhoods, especially working and middle class ones like Inglewood, tend to track those in neighborhoods that aren't majority black. In other words, the higher crime rate among blacks is basically entirely because more blacks are poor, which is a result of generations of American racism. So the statistics that racists rely on are themselves produced by the very doctrines they preach and the very attitudes they espouse. They spilled the porridge and are now complaining that nobody has cleaned it up.

I should add one more thing about this whole thing. You seem really enamored, like most racists, with differing statistics about criminality. If this really did prove what you think it proved, how come all the actual experts in statistics and criminology actually reject racial prejudice? You can go to any academic statistics or criminology department in the country, with people who are much smarter than you or I, with much more training in how to PROPERLY interpret crime statistics, and you basically won't find a single overt racist among them. It's only among people who are NOT experts in statistics or criminology that this belief in the amazing power of disparate crime statistics takes hold.

It would be like if you believed in a statistical interpretation of horse racing past performances that every horseplayer with an established winrate rejected. You could point to the statistics all you wanted to, but the actual experts keep saying "no, you have that wrong".

There's an expression "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing". Racists have just enough knowledge to obsessively collect statistics about racial disparities in crime, but not enough knowledge to actually correctly interpret them. You see a lot of this "little knowledge" problem on the Internet, in a lot of different fields. (In my real career, it pops up all the time, with people who didn't go to law school and are smart enough to read a Supreme Court decision or a statute or constitutional provision, but without the depth of knowledge to know why what they are advocating is a complete non-starter or total BS.)

The people who actually interpret crime statistics for a living don't interpret them the way you do. Maybe you should take the time to hear what they say about the subject. But that's the thing about prejudice-- it's prejudging things. Listening to experts is not something prejudiced people tend to want to do.

[Stillriledup]

Um, because you happened to be wrong in 2 DIFFERENT ways?

1. You have nothing to worry about in basically any neighborhood. You can actually go to some of the worst parts of Los Angeles, places whites basically never venture, and the odds of being attacked are tiny.

BUT

2. It is also true that the crime rates in majority black neighborhoods, especially working and middle class ones like Inglewood, tend to track those in neighborhoods that aren't majority black. In other words, the higher crime rate among blacks is basically entirely because more blacks are poor, which is a result of generations of American racism. So the statistics that racists rely on are themselves produced by the very doctrines they preach and the very attitudes they espouse. They spilled the porridge and are now complaining that nobody has cleaned it up.

I should add one more thing about this whole thing. You seem really enamored, like most racists, with differing statistics about criminality. If this really did prove what you think it proved, how come all the actual experts in statistics and criminology actually reject racial prejudice? You can go to any academic statistics or criminology department in the country, with people who are much smarter than you or I, with much more training in how to PROPERLY interpret crime statistics, and you basically won't find a single overt racist among them. It's only among people who are NOT experts in statistics or criminology that this belief in the amazing power of disparate crime statistics takes hold.

It would be like if you believed in a statistical interpretation of horse racing past performances that every horseplayer with an established winrate rejected. You could point to the statistics all you wanted to, but the actual experts keep saying "no, you have that wrong".

There's an expression "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing". Racists have just enough knowledge to obsessively collect statistics about racial disparities in crime, but not enough knowledge to actually correctly interpret them. You see a lot of this "little knowledge" problem on the Internet, in a lot of different fields. (In my real career, it pops up all the time, with people who didn't go to law school and are smart enough to read a Supreme Court decision or a statute or constitutional provision, but without the depth of knowledge to know why what they are advocating is a complete non-starter or total BS.)

The people who actually interpret crime statistics for a living don't interpret them the way you do. Maybe you should take the time to hear what they say about the subject. But that's the thing about prejudice-- it's prejudging things. Listening to experts is not something prejudiced people tend to want to do.

First of all, you seem very angry, time for a chill pill, seriously.

Secondly, why are you calling me a racist? What does this have to do with anything at all? Im just asking questions, that arent based on race, about crime...seems like you're the one who is "Crying racism" and you keep wanting to "play the race card". Im just trying to ask you questions about what you're spewing and you're unloading me and calling me a racist.

All we were talking about is whether or not people want to go to Inglewood because its safe, you're the one who seems angry about racial injustice, i havent even thought about it, all i care about is whether or not there's more crime, less crime or the average amount of crime in Inglewood (regardess of race) and you get all hot and bothered and start calling people you don't even know racists.

I didnt realize that i was going to get "unloaded on" by asking you a few simple questions about things you wrote. Geez.

[GaryG]

I lived in Inglewood for a few years in the 1960s. I lived in a highrise on Osage two blocks from the track. My neighbors were Whittingham with his black labs and jock Wayne Harris. The shopping are on Market attracted customers from all over. You could get a great meal at the golf course next to the Forum. When I was last there the stores all had iron gates and the golf course was long gone. You could see this coming several years ago, but it is still hard to see Hol go. I am not too familiar with the Hialeah situation, but I can't help but think that the reasons are similar. The area has badly degenerated. Hialeah was the most beautiful track in the country.

[wisconsin]

I lived in Inglewood for a few years in the 1960s. I lived in a highrise on Osage two blocks from the track. My neighbors were Whittingham with his black labs and jock Wayne Harris. The shopping are on Market attracted customers from all over. You could get a great meal at the golf course next to the Forum. When I was last there the stores all had iron gates and the golf course was long gone. You could see this coming several years ago, but it is still hard to see Hol go. I am not too familiar with the Hialeah situation, but I can't help but think that the reasons are similar. The area has badly degenerated. Hialeah was the most beautiful track in the country.

I went to Hialeah a couple of years ago and the worry about the neighborhood is greatly exagerated.

[dilanesp]

First of all, you seem very angry, time for a chill pill, seriously.

Secondly, why are you calling me a racist? What does this have to do with anything at all? Im just asking questions, that arent based on race, about crime...seems like you're the one who is "Crying racism" and you keep wanting to "play the race card". Im just trying to ask you questions about what you're spewing and you're unloading me and calling me a racist.

All we were talking about is whether or not people want to go to Inglewood because its safe, you're the one who seems angry about racial injustice, i havent even thought about it, all i care about is whether or not there's more crime, less crime or the average amount of crime in Inglewood (regardess of race) and you get all hot and bothered and start calling people you don't even know racists.

I didnt realize that i was going to get "unloaded on" by asking you a few simple questions about things you wrote. Geez.

Google "just asking questions". It's not held in high esteem on the Internet, for good reason.

[dilanesp]

I went to Hialeah a couple of years ago and the worry about the neighborhood is greatly exagerated.

They always are.

[wiffleball whizz]

To get back on track here.......


Vic what does Hollywood plan on doing Sunday for the last day or the last race....??

Gonna be a brutal week emotionally for all employees and loyal customers.....

[Stillriledup]

To get back on track here.......


Vic what does Hollywood plan on doing Sunday for the last day or the last race....??

Gonna be a brutal week emotionally for all employees and loyal customers.....

Why is there no racing on Thursday?

[ronsmac]

Why is there no racing on Thursday?
I was wondering the same thing.

[Stillriledup]

I was wondering the same thing.
The only thing i would guess is that they want to have 3 spectacular cards in the final 3 days and they want huge fields and they just added races to those 3 days and got larger fields. But, maybe Vic can tell us the real reason.

[pandy]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/15/sports/a-last-hurrah-for-hollywood-park.html?_r=0

[dilanesp]

They should put all the films and videos up on youtube.

[plainolebill]

Hollywood Park was the first racetrack I ever went to, my Dad took me there sometime in the early 50's. I've always loved the place, a blue collar racetrack compared to Santa Anita but great racing.

My Dad worked for months at the track helping with the rebuild after the grandstand burned down in 1949.

The reason it's going away is money, the ground is worth more than the income the track generates. I wouldn't be shocked if the same thing happens to Santa Anita in the future.

I'm sad to see it close.

[dilanesp]

Hollywood Park was the first racetrack I ever went to, my Dad took me there sometime in the early 50's. I've always loved the place, a blue collar racetrack compared to Santa Anita but great racing.

My Dad worked for months at the track helping with the rebuild after the grandstand burned down in 1949.

The reason it's going away is money, the ground is worth more than the income the track generates. I wouldn't be shocked if the same thing happens to Santa Anita in the future.

I'm sad to see it close.

It's highly unlikely that Santa Anita will close, for several reasons. The main two are (1) Santa Anita is more profitable than BHP, and (2) Santa Anita is owned by someone who is rich as sin and doesn't mind blowing a bunch of money owning racetracks anyway. In addition, there actually are substantial stakeholders who will oppose any effective shutdown of the Southern California racing circuit (you saw an aspect of this when the Hollywood Park dates were snapped up by other tracks to preserve year round live racing in Southern California, even though racing fans don't particularly want it and it isn't good for the sport).

The reality is that BHP's closing is part of a long-term trend of consolidation of the racing industry. To understand this, imagine what you might have predicted at the time that extensive simulcasting was introduced into American horse racing. The obvious prediction would be that there would be fewer tracks, because a lot of people, given the choice to bet their local track and to bet one of the major racing circuits with formful horses and larger fields, would bet the major racing circuit. So over time, horse racing is going to consolidate into a few major circuits which draw the bulk of the simulcast handle, and a few boutique meets such as Oaklawn that are successful enough at drawing live fans that they can survive. And on those major circuits, since so much of the revenue comes from simulcasting, it makes sense to have as few tracks as possible, because every track has to be maintained basically year round even if it only races a few months a year, and has to be staffed for live patrons even though so few fans are coming out.

So what we are seeing is that consolidation. Southern California will probably be one of the major surviving circuits (the others will likely be Kentucky, New York, and Florida), and most of the racing will take place at only two major tracks, Del Mar and Santa Anita, rather than three.

It's sad that BHP is closing. I love the place. But we are in the middle of a long, sad process where a sport that was once the highest attended spectator sport in the country adjusts to a new reality where it is presented at a few tracks qua television studios and a few spas and fairgrounds. At the end there will be very few venues for live American racing, but you will be able to bet the sport almost anywhere.

[wiffleball whizz]

The thing that must sting workers and people who go there most is they see the handle which buries 95 percent of all other tracks is the one shutting down.....it's not like Beulah park or zia park is closing one of the "big 6" if you will is closing it's gonna be a tough pill to swallow

[netbet]

Here are two decent articles from LA Weekly.

http://blogs.laweekly.com/informer/2013/12/hollywood_park_closing_memories.php

http://www.laweekly.com/2013-12-12/news/hollywood-park-horse-racing/full/

[rubicon55]

Hollywood Park you will be missed by many.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oa-ae6_okmg

[Stillriledup]

Hollywood Park you will be missed by many.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oa-ae6_okmg

Except the killers, BM Land company.

[dilanesp]

Except the killers, BM Land company.

I'm not exactly going to defend them (they've made some less than honest statements about the closing), but the reason the track is closing is because it wasn't profitable for Churchill, which gets back to attendance issues and covering the costs of operation. That's why Churchill sold it. Once they sold it, just about everyone who knew about the track's problems knew that it would eventually close.

There are pretty strong economic reasons why in a world of simulcasting you want fewer tracks on a circuit; basically, tracks have to be maintained close to year-round for live racing but only race part of the time. As a result, the "circuit" makes the same amount of revenue with one track racing more dates than it does with two tracks racing the same number of dates, but cuts its expenses drastically. Of our three major tracks in Southern California, BHP was the least successful both in terms of attendance and revenue. So it was the one that was going to be bumped off eventually, if not by BMLC then by someone else.

[Stillriledup]

I'm not exactly going to defend them (they've made some less than honest statements about the closing), but the reason the track is closing is because it wasn't profitable for Churchill, which gets back to attendance issues and covering the costs of operation. That's why Churchill sold it. Once they sold it, just about everyone who knew about the track's problems knew that it would eventually close.

There are pretty strong economic reasons why in a world of simulcasting you want fewer tracks on a circuit; basically, tracks have to be maintained close to year-round for live racing but only race part of the time. As a result, the "circuit" makes the same amount of revenue with one track racing more dates than it does with two tracks racing the same number of dates, but cuts its expenses drastically. Of our three major tracks in Southern California, BHP was the least successful both in terms of attendance and revenue. So it was the one that was going to be bumped off eventually, if not by BMLC then by someone else.

But the track might still be running thru 2014 and beyond if Churchill didnt sell the track to someone they knew wasnt buying it to continue racing.

Or, they could have not purchased the track in the first place if they didnt want to actually own it.

[andtheyreoff]

Here's the entries for the last race ever at Hollywood. Scheduled to go off at 5:35 PM local time:

STARTER ALLOWANCE $25,000

Purse $50,000. For Three Year Olds And Upward Which Have Started For A Claiming Price Of $25,000 Or Less In 2013 And Since Staring For $25,000 Or Less Have Not Won An Allowance Race, Claiming Or Starter Race Exceeding $40,000. Three Year Olds, 121 Lbs.; Older, 124 Lbs.Non-winners of two races at a mile or over in 2013 Allowed 2 Lbs. One such race in 2013 Allowed 4 Lbs. (Maiden And Claiming Races For $20,000 Or Less Not Considered) (Highweights Preferred). One And One Sixteenth Miles. (Turf)

:1: Tommy Danzigger
:2: Moonlit Meteor
:3: Poshky
:4: Anythingscooking
:5: Woodman's Luck
:6: Soul Candy
:7: So Elite
:8: Mr. Candy Bar
:9: Danderek
:10: Twin Six
:11: Depreciable
:12: Insideondoutside
Also Eligibles
:13: No Contingency
:14: Buenos Dias
:15: Warren's Joe T.

[dilanesp]

But the track might still be running thru 2014 and beyond if Churchill didnt sell the track to someone they knew wasnt buying it to continue racing.

Or, they could have not purchased the track in the first place if they didnt want to actually own it.

When Churchill bought it, the track was making money. R.D. Hubbard did a lot of things right, including building the casino and expanding Friday night racing. Attendance was down but was still pretty decent, especially on Fridays and Sundays. Churchill thought they would be able to combine that success with some synergies with their other tracks, such as Churchill, Arlington, and Calder.

Instead, after Churchill took over, attendance plummeted and the track started losing tons of money. Further, the racing product sucked (lots of 5 horse fields) and Churchill didn't achieve any simulcasting synergies because the rest of the country didn't want to bet our lousy races. Meanwhile, there was a real estate boom and the land went up in value.

So, they sold, which seems like a rational decision to me (albeit not a pro-racing decision).

And bear in mind, in order to make a profit on the sale, they had to sell to a developer and not a racetrack operator. Because the racetrack was not very profitable, the land wasn't worth very much to a racetrack operator; it was only worth money to a developer.

You can decry all this, but this is how capitalism works.

[Stillriledup]

When Churchill bought it, the track was making money. R.D. Hubbard did a lot of things right, including building the casino and expanding Friday night racing. Attendance was down but was still pretty decent, especially on Fridays and Sundays. Churchill thought they would be able to combine that success with some synergies with their other tracks, such as Churchill, Arlington, and Calder.

Instead, after Churchill took over, attendance plummeted and the track started losing tons of money. Further, the racing product sucked (lots of 5 horse fields) and Churchill didn't achieve any simulcasting synergies because the rest of the country didn't want to bet our lousy races. Meanwhile, there was a real estate boom and the land went up in value.

So, they sold, which seems like a rational decision to me (albeit not a pro-racing decision).

And bear in mind, in order to make a profit on the sale, they had to sell to a developer and not a racetrack operator. Because the racetrack was not very profitable, the land wasn't worth very much to a racetrack operator; it was only worth money to a developer.

You can decry all this, but this is how capitalism works.

Do you think the weak simo schedule was a factor? They still dont have round the clock full card simo.

[dilanesp]

Do you think the weak simo schedule was a factor? They still dont have round the clock full card simo.

I haven't really thought about that, but I'm sure that when Churchill was buying up tracks and trying to create a simulcast network in the late 1990's, California's dumb simulcasting rules couldn't have helped.

But I'm not really sure that any of Churchill's acquisitions really achieved what they were hoping to achieve-- Calder? The Fair Grounds? Arlington? So it's probably more that they thought that they would be able to realize bigger profits by owning a slew of tracks than what turned out to be the case. (Stronach seems to have learned the same painful lesson, but he is willing to take a financial bath owning tracks while Churchill is not.)

[wiffleball whizz]

Here's the entries for the last race ever at Hollywood. Scheduled to go off at 5:35 PM local time:

STARTER ALLOWANCE $25,000

Purse $50,000. For Three Year Olds And Upward Which Have Started For A Claiming Price Of $25,000 Or Less In 2013 And Since Staring For $25,000 Or Less Have Not Won An Allowance Race, Claiming Or Starter Race Exceeding $40,000. Three Year Olds, 121 Lbs.; Older, 124 Lbs.Non-winners of two races at a mile or over in 2013 Allowed 2 Lbs. One such race in 2013 Allowed 4 Lbs. (Maiden And Claiming Races For $20,000 Or Less Not Considered) (Highweights Preferred). One And One Sixteenth Miles. (Turf)

:1: Tommy Danzigger
:2: Moonlit Meteor
:3: Poshky
:4: Anythingscooking
:5: Woodman's Luck
:6: Soul Candy
:7: So Elite
:8: Mr. Candy Bar
:9: Danderek
:10: Twin Six
:11: Depreciable
:12: Insideondoutside
Also Eligibles
:13: No Contingency
:14: Buenos Dias
:15: Warren's Joe T.


:11: makes a lot of sense.......
:13: has a appropriate name........

Not gonna lie this is a very depressing day Sunday is gonna be.....taking girlfriend to the airport, buried with sports, 5 weeks of being alone and holidays alone Sunday will be a very bad night.........


On a side note Vic what have u heard in terms of after the last race.....are they auctioning off the televisions paintings or is there a chance people start ripping things off walls?

[JustRalph]

I haven't really thought about that, but I'm sure that when Churchill was buying up tracks and trying to create a simulcast network in the late 1990's, California's dumb simulcasting rules couldn't have helped.

But I'm not really sure that any of Churchill's acquisitions really achieved what they were hoping to achieve-- Calder? The Fair Grounds? Arlington? So it's probably more that they thought that they would be able to realize bigger profits by owning a slew of tracks than what turned out to be the case. (Stronach seems to have learned the same painful lesson, but he is willing to take a financial bath owning tracks while Churchill is not.)

Churchill Stock is up 143% over the last ten years. What were they hoping to achieve? It's up 52 bucks if my math is right

[Stillriledup]

Churchill Stock is up 143% over the last ten years. What were they hoping to achieve? It's up 52 bucks if my math is right

I think Dilanesp means that they were hoping to achieve a slots contract in California (at least) so in that regard, they didnt achieve what they were hoping would happen. Not sure why California tracks don't have slot machines, obviously certain people didnt want it to happen for some reason.

[JustRalph]

I think Dilanesp means that they were hoping to achieve a slots contract in California (at least) so in that regard, they didnt achieve what they were hoping would happen. Not sure why California tracks don't have slot machines, obviously certain people didnt want it to happen for some reason.

A gamble in itself.

[Stillriledup]

A gamble in itself.

I think Stronach was buying up tracks hoping for slots, worked out ok for him in some instances, maybe it was a good gamble to take.

[dilanesp]

Churchill Stock is up 143% over the last ten years. What were they hoping to achieve? It's up 52 bucks if my math is right

Churchill is doing fine. My point was did they get any "synergy" from buying up tracks?

[antigeekess]

I was originally going to go up & visit HP for the first time this weekend & take some pictures, but I'm thinking it would just make me sad. :(

If I never visit it, I won't know what I'm missing. Yet I kinda wanna document it in photos before it goes away. I'm on the fence. Maybe Saturday.

[Stillriledup]

I was originally going to go up & visit HP for the first time this weekend & take some pictures, but I'm thinking it would just make me sad. :(

If I never visit it, I won't know what I'm missing. Yet I kinda wanna document it in photos before it goes away. I'm on the fence. Maybe Saturday.

You might be more sad not being there?

[antigeekess]

You might be more sad not being there?

Possibly. Based on what I've seen of it online, I'm sure I'd love it. Looks like it has way more character than Santa Anita.

[Stillriledup]

Possibly. Based on what I've seen of it online, I'm sure I'd love it. Looks like it has way more character than Santa Anita.

Its old school. And historic. And Vic will be there with an emotional final call.

What's not to love. Also a great jockeys race for leading rider, hopefully it comes down to the final race to decide it.

[elhelmete]

I'll be there Saturday.

[antigeekess]

Its old school. And historic. And Vic will be there with an emotional final call.

What's not to love. Also a great jockeys race for leading rider, hopefully it comes down to the final race to decide it.

And hopefully Woodman's Luck doesn't try to BITE anybody in that last race while he's hanging in 2nd. :D

[highnote]

I won't miss Hollywood. Santa Anita and Del Mar both have nicer settings. Although, I do feel bad for people who might lose their jobs. I hope they can land in better positions.

[wiffleball whizz]

Thread has been derailed with some unjustified comments but I just want to share some news maybe Vic can confirm (I'd give left lung if it was true)

Vic is 6/1 to get the harrahs Philadelphia calling job (it is a open position) I read this on another site.....

Vic can call the races at harrahs Chester and rule the jockey agents in the mid Atlantic area!!!!!

ONE TIME!!!!!

[senortout]

Well it took me awhile but I finally figured out this penultimate Hollywood Park card!..

There is no sense saving this turf course, after this weekend, it is history. Therefore, the powers that be 'changed up on us' and carded all these six furlong turf sprints.....

I will be glad when they shut the doors.

That said, I like a good turf sprint...but what's happened is...
(I write down the names of every entry)....they have brought horses out of the woodwork for a Saturday card. I couldn't believe the card as I wandered thru the entries.

Are others having a somewhat 'this is bad, but good for us in the long run' kinda feeling?

[dilanesp]

Well it took me awhile but I finally figured out this penultimate Hollywood Park card!..

There is no sense saving this turf course, after this weekend, it is history. Therefore, the powers that be 'changed up on us' and carded all these six furlong turf sprints.....

I will be glad when they shut the doors.

That said, I like a good turf sprint...but what's happened is...
(I write down the names of every entry)....they have brought horses out of the woodwork for a Saturday card. I couldn't believe the card as I wandered thru the entries.

Are others having a somewhat 'this is bad, but good for us in the long run' kinda feeling?

I know I took crap for bashing on Aqueduct inner dirt racing, but that reminds me of some old inner dirt cards at Aqueduct. 8 6 furlong races and 1 mile and 70 yard route.

[dilanesp]

BTW, if you want one indication of why BHP has to close, consider this.

With all the fanfare, all the publicity, and literally hundreds of thousands of people in Los Angeles who have been to Hollywood Park at some point in its existence (if you think about lifespans and how many people are still around from the days when it averaged over 20,000, it's clear that is true), track management expects 8,000 tomorrow.

That's even less than Bay Meadows and Longacres drew on their final race days. It's even less than Hollywood Park drew for Zenyatta in her final season (itself a disappointing crowd figure).

Unfortunately nobody cares anymore.

[Stillriledup]

BTW, if you want one indication of why BHP has to close, consider this.

With all the fanfare, all the publicity, and literally hundreds of thousands of people in Los Angeles who have been to Hollywood Park at some point in its existence (if you think about lifespans and how many people are still around from the days when it averaged over 20,000, it's clear that is true), track management expects 8,000 tomorrow.

That's even less than Bay Meadows and Longacres drew on their final race days. It's even less than Hollywood Park drew for Zenyatta in her final season (itself a disappointing crowd figure).

Unfortunately nobody cares anymore.

There's gotta be more than 8,000, no?

I was thinking 20,000 or more.

Maybe they're secretly thinking 20k and saying 8 so they look "smart". You don't look as smart if you estimate 20 and get 8.

[TJDave]

track management expects 8,000 tomorrow.

Really? That's pretty sad.

I thought it would be packed. I may reconsider going.

[Si2see]

Well it took me awhile but I finally figured out this penultimate Hollywood Park card!..

There is no sense saving this turf course, after this weekend, it is history. Therefore, the powers that be 'changed up on us' and carded all these six furlong turf sprints.....

I will be glad when they shut the doors.

That said, I like a good turf sprint...but what's happened is...
(I write down the names of every entry)....they have brought horses out of the woodwork for a Saturday card. I couldn't believe the card as I wandered thru the entries.

Are others having a somewhat 'this is bad, but good for us in the long run' kinda feeling?

No the feeling I am having is tomorrow will be a sad day, and I welcome the longshots that are winning today !!

[letswastemoney]

They could have carded more routes if they wanted to be nicer. I absolutely hate six furlong turf sprints.

[WJ47]

I'm feeling sad about it. I'll probably cry tomorrow (I'm female). :) I'm looking forward to seeing what Vic does with the last race call.

[wiffleball whizz]

Jan 24-25 auction....just heard on tvg....

[andtheyreoff]

Really? That's pretty sad.

I thought it would be packed. I may reconsider going.

They're probably low-balling. I'd expect five digits, if nothing else.

If nothing else, Hialeah only drew 3,280 for their last Thoroughbred card, so it could be worse.

[mkkash]

Hollywood Park was the first racetrack I ever went to, my Dad took me there sometime in the early 50's. I've always loved the place, a blue collar racetrack compared to Santa Anita but great racing.

My Dad worked for months at the track helping with the rebuild after the grandstand burned down in 1949.

The reason it's going away is money, the ground is worth more than the income the track generates. I wouldn't be shocked if the same thing happens to Santa Anita in the future.

I'm sad to see it close.

It took 20 years to close. I first heard talk of this back in 1993.

I was speaking with an associate whose family raced horses at
Hollywood Park.

I said in my opinion they could build all the shopping centers and homes
around the race track but to allow the racing to continue.

We had a good 20 years.

Best of luck to all.

M K KASH


"MAKE S POCKET FULL OF GREENBACKS"

[dilanesp]

Really? That's pretty sad.

I thought it would be packed. I may reconsider going.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:m2vJiFA7rIQJ:www.drf.com/news/hollywood-park-one-final-race-curtain-falls-1387567358+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Track president Jack Liebau said the attendance for Sunday is hard to predict.

“The Turf Club is filled,” Liebau said. “I don’t have any idea what will happen in the grandstand. If I had to guess and make an over-under, I’d say 8,000, but I could be off.”

[stu]

Today was an awesome day to reconnect - I spoke with people in person that I haven't seen in a decade. Tomorrow, I imagine that I will see more from the past. I am glad that I made the trip.

I feel sad for many of the Hollywood Park employees who haven't been picked up by the other tracks. Many were still lamenting that there was no last minute reprieve. Some expressed regret that they never got Hollywood Park on the National Register of Historic Place like Santa Anita did.

Today felt like the good ole days. Tomorrow will probably feel surreal

I will be near the paddock crossover tomorrow (khakis, white shirt, red tie with possibly a Tecate can in my hand) if anybody wants to dry by and say howdy

Stu

[Stillriledup]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa6cX4t-yeg

So many faces in and out of my life
Some will last
Some will just be now and then
Life is a series of hellos and goodbyes
I'm afraid it's time for goodbye again
Say goodbye to Hollywood
Say goodbye my baby
Say goobye to Hollywood
Say goodbye my baby


(sorry for the commercial)

[BlueShoe]

Will be leaving in two hours and heading for Hollywood Park for the last time. :( Hope to see a few old friends from the old days that I have not seen in years. Like the early Pick-5 and will take a final shot. Do not really care for anything in the later races, but will stay untill the end, and make a wager on the final race ever.

[goatchaser]

I can't say I'll miss it as in the last 10 yeqars or so Iv'e probably made 20 total visits to the track. One thing though..I have some great memories of the track as an 18 yo skipping school and asking someone to be my father so I could get into the track. Back then you had to be 21 to pay for admission if you were alone. This would be 1970-71.

I'll have great thoughts of all the many races called by Harry Henson. Not flashy....But the ULTIMATE professional.

The many Superstar Jockeys that would ride there. Shoe, Pincay,Pierce,Toro,Pineda,Rosales,Valenzuela,Grant ,Lambert,Hawley,Cauthen,Cordero when he came out to try the west coast. And my little butterball fav jock Rudy Campas. I was there he won his 1st 100,000.00 race on a horse called Kentuckian.
The many great Match Races that were held....Typecast vs Convienence, Chris Everett vs Miss Musket, The mine match races that Frankel would have at Hollywood . Always his Horses against QH's. memories that stick with you as a kid. J.O Tobin beating the undefeated Seattle Slew, Convience beating Typecast and the great Willie Shoe, The first Breeders cup ever held. Watching Triple Bend, Royal Owl, Quack, and so many I'm sure Iv'e forgotten by name.

There was nothing like going to a Kings game or a Lakers game at the Forum then running across the street and catching the last couple of races at Hollywood Park Harness. I won't misss the track being there, But I will always remember all the great Memories it's given me.

[goatchaser]

Let me add this. I want to thank Vic for his gracious offer of coming to the track and sitting with him while he called a race. It was after a Breeders Cup discussion at Santa Anita. Just a friendly person and genuine nice guy. TY Vic, I'm sorry I never took you up on the offer.

[Greyfox]

Vic Stauffer, Jay Cohen, and all of the full-time staff at Hollywood Park

Thank You!

All the best in 2014.

[ronsmac]

Hollywood Park was the first track I visited on the west coast , eeven though I haven't been there in over 20 years , its starting to hit me that they're closing for ever. This truly is a sad day.

[dilanesp]

I'm here. Forget about 8,000. Huge crowd.

[Stillriledup]

I'm here. Forget about 8,000. Huge crowd.

Have fun D. :ThmbUp:

[Tom]

Zen-ya-ta!
Zen-ya-ta!

Zenyatta Fan, known as Kenyatta, was just interviewed on TVG.
A little part of Hollywood history!

[PICSIX]

I'm here. Forget about 8,000. Huge crowd.

Grab some poly/cushion off the track....maybe they'll give some away?

[Inglewood Flamingo]

An amazing read about a sad but true ending. HP RIP.

[horses4courses]

I'm sad to see Hollywood Park closing for the obvious reasons.
However, I have a selfish reason as well.

It's been a while since I've seen such a pronounced speed bias anywhere.
The turf track is as speed friendly as you will see this past week, and maybe longer without my noticing.

[Stillriledup]

An amazing read about a sad but true ending. HP RIP.

Horsemen need to stop voting against exchange wagering, lower takeouts and stuff like this, they need to think about the game first. 688k in today's Pick 5 pool with low takeout.

[JustRalph]

Horsemen need to stop voting against exchange wagering, lower takeouts and stuff like this, they need to think about the game first. 688k in today's Pick 5 pool with low takeout.

How does that compare to other pick 5's ?

[Stillriledup]

How does that compare to other pick 5's ?

So Cal Pick 5 is the leader in handle by far in the country.....NYRA is probably 2nd, but So Cal's pick 5 almost doubles the daily handle of NYRA and everyone else's pick 5 seems to be under 100k daily.

[Stillriledup]

I guess if you're closing, no sense showing horses warming up, its not like anyone at home cares or uses visual inspection to make wagers...just show the people by the apron waving and being happy, after all, its the x mas season, full of good cheer!

[098poi]

My pick for the last race.

:2:, :7:, :9: ex box.

Safe trip and thanks and good luck to all involved with BHP!!

[dilanesp]

An amazing read about a sad but true ending. HP RIP.

Everything Osterman says there is correct.

[dilanesp]

My pick for the last race.

:2:, :7:, :9: ex box.

Safe trip and thanks and good luck to all involved with BHP!!

I bet the 6.

[thespaah]

I remember like it was yesterday the first time my Grandparents brought me to Hollywood Park. It was 1969, I was ten years old. At first I was very disappointed. As we drove up I saw The Forum and thought I was being taken to a Lakers game. Not a lot of those in the summer though. Then the huge grandstand caught my eye. Grandpa liked to come on weekdays. Better chance at getting good seats. They had both spent the morning mapping out their picks. Grandma by reading the newspaper handicappers and Grandpa by attacking the racing form. When he'd decide on his pick he'd circle the name over and over again until it seemed as if no others were in the race.

The program had those boxes on the top of each page where you could write in the results. My grandmother would be so meticulous about making sure she filled in the order of finish and the payoffs. I think she might have been watching for a pattern of which numbers were coming in. She was a two dollar show bettor. Her running total was always something between + 60 cents to minus a buck twenty. I think she enjoyed the book keeping part as much as the races themselves.

I remember almost nothing about the actual running of the races. They were a total blur. I do remember rooting for my Grandma's horse by being fixated on the blinking numbers on the tote board. The pack seemed a mile away and the announcer kind of like a low drone in the background. Those blinking numbers were everything. When the favorite's number would show up on the list it was only then a huge cheer would come from the crowd. When the field turned for home everyone would stand and scream. I could barely see. Then for a fleeting second the leader would pass by. You could finally see the number. Just for a few strides. What a rush. A rush that would last only a few seconds. A rush that still pulls me 44 years later.

Grandma almost always had a cashable ticket. Grandpa, we never quite knew for sure. He'd have tickets in both pockets. The show to Grandma pocket and the don't show to Grandma pocket. I never got the feeling he was winning much. I'm pretty sure though he was firing with both barrels. Getting your bets in on time was a constant consideration. Grandma would have to leave no later than 10 minutes to post to avoid getting shut out. Grandpa would always wait to the last minute. How'd he do that? It wasn't until many years later I finally figured it out. He was going to the $50 dollar window where there were very few in line. Pretty sure Grandma never caught on.

Those were my first days at Hollywood Park. Tomorrow I face the beginning of my last days.

In some ways the feelings are just the same as 44 years ago.

In some ways they are very different.

Tomorrow I'm not sure I want to go.
Vic....the call of the final race was some of your best work!

[Stillriledup]

Vic....the call of the final race was some of your best work!

I agree, incredible call.

[Exotic1]

That last call by Vic was really good. Sure he had time to prep but that had just the right amount of sentiment. The last "12 seconds" thing, great. Thanks Vic for the call - it was good to hear.

[098poi]

My pick for the last race.

:2:, :7:, :9: ex box.

Safe trip and thanks and good luck to all involved with BHP!!


:5:, :11:, :9:, :8: in the last!

I agree too, great call Vic.

[Tom]

Yes, good call. Nice calling the champions as they pasded the barns :ThmbUp:
and a nice race to go out on.

[Mineshaft]

with BHP closing what will Vic do now?

[Stillriledup]

with BHP closing what will Vic do now?

That last race call shows Vic is one of the best in the business, im sure everyone in the sport was watching.

Good night Hollywood Park.

[TJDave]

An amazing read about a sad but true ending. HP RIP.

The “new” fans the industry so dearly craves are only developed when
sizable crowds gather to generate the kind of kinetic energy required to attract and excite new customers. When they can only put 2,000 or 3,000 people into a place built to handle 75,000, new visitors finds themselves in a mausoleum-type atmosphere. They see no reason to return.

Exactly. Horse Racing is a visually attractive sport. All the senses, actually. It cannot survive if it's only patrons are online bettors, regardless of handle. Imagine football without stadiums filled with fans. Ain't gonna happen.

[FiveWide]

Yes, good call. Nice calling the champions as they pasded the barns :ThmbUp:
and a nice race to go out on.

This was my favorite part of the call but the whole thing was a superb job I thought. Well done Vic!! Good luck in your future endeavors. I know you have options. :ThmbUp:


-Five

[PaceAdvantage]

Vic's "that's a wrap" at the end of the call...don't think you could come up with anything more appropriate for Hollywood Park to say there at the end...good job Vic.

[Grits]

Its an incredibly nice feeling, when one can't be in the presence of, but can, instead, be listening to excellence via online at TwinSpires.

Vic, your call was outstanding. Your passion for this racetrack was so clear. As clear as the lyrics of Etta James', "At Last", played during the post parade.

It was a fine ending. I wish you the best.

I wish, too, the 5 hadn't caught my 11 in the photo...

[wiffleball whizz]

Its an incredibly nice feeling, when one can't be in the presence of, but can, instead, be listening to excellence via online at TwinSpires.

Vic, your call was outstanding. Your passion for this racetrack was so clear. As clear as the lyrics of Etta James', "At Last", played during the post parade.

It was a fine ending. I wish you the best.

I wish, too, the 5 hadn't caught my 11 in the photo...


This!!!!!!!! ( :5: beating :11: )

[Grits]

Whizz, did you have the 5? I coulda cried... The 11 (win/place) was sitting in a nice spot, moving well through the stretch. I thought I was home, here comes Nakatani like a photo bomb.

[wiffleball whizz]

Whizz, did you have the 5? I coulda cried... The 11 (win/place) was sitting in a nice spot, moving well through the stretch. I thought I was home, here comes Nakatani like a photo bomb.


Nope.....was agreeing with u hoping the :11: held on.........heartbreaker


For some reason that finish seemed like the classic this year.....except I won that photo

[FiveWide]

I thought I was home, here comes Nakatani like a photo bomb.

Photo bomb takes on a whole new meaning in horseracing!! Tough beat Grits.


-Five

[goatchaser]

I stayed on the TVG feed online after the races. So many things were running through my mind. Just as I was about to shut it down......A song came on. Actually brought a tear to my eye. It was Roy Rodgers and Dale Evans singing Happy Trails.

[lamboguy]

thanks for the great call Vic. i made sure to watch and listen to as much of this very last day of a very historical track.

i loved the way you called the last race mentioning all the great horses that stabled there. everyone wishes you and all the fans happiness in this world.

god bless you.

[Greyfox]

This!!!!!!!! ( :5: beating :11: )

Photos don't lie, supposedly. But my eye did. I saw 11/5.
In the words of Vic Stauffer, "That's a wrap."
Well that was Hollywood....
I'll miss that track.

Greyfox

[pandy]

Great Call Vic. Hope to hear your voice again soon.

[PoloUK6108]

Great Call Vic. Hope to hear your voice again soon.

Vic to Churchill Downs!! Make it happen!

[wiffleball whizz]

Question about prior comments

I've heard that closing Hollywood park is better for California racing and will make it stronger...how so?

Does anybody here think Los Al will get the pools and handle?

And Los al won't have that "must bet" track tone to it....there's only a few tracks that the "general public" will bet and Hollywood was one of them


For gamblers and racing there isn't anything good about Hollywood closing and I don't even bet flats but know losing a top 5 handle track isn't good

[nijinski]

Question about prior comments

I've heard that closing Hollywood park is better for California racing and will make it stronger...how so?

Does anybody here think Los Al will get the pools and handle?

And Los al won't have that "must bet" track tone to it....there's only a few tracks that the "general public" will bet and Hollywood was one of them


For gamblers and racing there isn't anything good about Hollywood closing and I don't even bet flats but know losing a top 5 handle track isn't good

WW please bet flats , they need your support :D :D

[antigeekess]

And hopefully Woodman's Luck doesn't try to BITE anybody in that last race while he's hanging in 2nd. :D

Well so much for THAT, huh? Figures he'd finally get that nose out front. *shakes head*

[dilanesp]

Question about prior comments

I've heard that closing Hollywood park is better for California racing and will make it stronger...how so?

Does anybody here think Los Al will get the pools and handle?

And Los al won't have that "must bet" track tone to it....there's only a few tracks that the "general public" will bet and Hollywood was one of them


For gamblers and racing there isn't anything good about Hollywood closing and I don't even bet flats but know losing a top 5 handle track isn't good

I don't think the issue is some sort of symbolic "must bet" status. In this day and age, simulcast and internet players will bet tracks with good competitive racing and will stay away from tracks without it, even if those tracks are considered "major" tracks.

The problem for Los Al especially, and also the Del Mar fall meet, is going to be pretty simple-- horsemen are likely to use those meets to lay up their horses rather than vanning down to run there. The meetings are short, and in Los Al's case, they will be run over a bullring (whether or not the track successfully expands-- the turns will still be tight). So the racing product is likely to be unattractive (and BHP, it should be noted, already had a problem with unattractive racing product).

Those meetings are being run to satisfy horsemen who want to pick up purses, but I suspect they will be failures and may not end up making any economic sense.

[BlueShoe]

Got there at 10:30 for otb. Was irritated at being charged $10 for general admission into the grandstand, much too steep imo, and perhaps a major reason for the track's low attendence in recent years, but that is another topic. Stopped using a program years ago, and never pay to park, so being charged for something I do not want or need did not set well. Oh well, it was the last day, and had to be there. Sorry to see FG cancel early, there were two runners later that I really liked. HOL had pretty good otb facilities.

Track staff may not have expected the large crowd, things were a bit hectic. Very long lines at many concession stands and manned teller windows, lines at the Sams. Many bettors that appeared to be uninformed or confused at the the windows. After being used to the veteran players in the Los Al clubhouse, this player became impatient with the slowpokes. The big crowd overflowed into sections of the track that were posted as being closed and off limits, they ignored the signs and barriers. This player did the same, visiting old places, long closed, where I had spent thousands of hours of my life. Could almost feel the ghosts walking, old friends that are no longer here.

A big disappointment was not running into any old friends or even familiar faces from the old days, not a one, just a couple of guys that I knew slightly. Guess that I am one of the last old sentimentalists, the others did not care enough to show up for the last dance. Stayed until after the last race winners circle ceremony was over and Vic had announced the prices and payoffs. As I walked through the darkness toward my car, heard him come on one more time and say goodnight. :(

[dilanesp]

The $10 includes parking, a program, and access to the clubhouse. It is a reasonable price IMO.

[JohnGalt1]

Nope.....was agreeing with u hoping the :11: held on.........heartbreaker


For some reason that finish seemed like the classic this year.....except I won that photo

I also had the 11 bet to win and to finish the pick 4.

At least I had a winning day thanks to only making 4 win bets and hitting the $25.80 and $19.80 turf wins.

Vic, great job all year!

[delayjf]

Curious - What did you see in the 11?

[Maxximus]

Vic > Collmus Hands Down!

Gulfstream wasnt the same when you left.

[Stillriledup]

The $10 includes parking, a program, and access to the clubhouse. It is a reasonable price IMO.

I think vegas has it "reasonable". Free parking, free admission and drink comps, 2 dollar (or free) DRF's, etc.

[dilanesp]

I think vegas has it "reasonable". Free parking, free admission and drink comps, 2 dollar (or free) DRF's, etc.

That's fine. But you also don't get to see horses run around the track.

Racetracks have higher costs. They have to maintain tracks and turf courses, starting gates, barns, larger parking lots (counting only the horse racing bettors), grandstands, seats, boxes, clubhouses and turf clubs, press boxes, announcer's and stewards' booths, patrol towers, etc. And they have to hire starters, assistants, buglers, horse identifiers, television production personnel, placing and patrol judges, camera operators, and a lot more cleaning personnel, mutuel ticket sellers, concessions personnel, etc. And they have to print up programs and do 10,000 other things that simulcast outlets don't need to do.

The result is, if you actually like to watch live racing, it costs more money. Now, if you are NYRA, you can cross-subsidize. (Believe it or not, I think that's one of the smart things NYRA does.) You charge more for Saratoga and the Belmont Stakes; less for January at Aqueduct. If Hollywood Park were owned by the same owner as Del Mar, you'd probably see that done. But BHP cannot cross-subsidize, so they have to charge people about what it costs to keep the plant up, plus some sort of operating profit.

And from that standpoint, $10 for grandstand and clubhouse admission + program + parking is pretty reasonable. It's certainly in line with what many tracks charge.

[jerry-g]

Well I decided to play just one race on closing day and it was the 7th and
I won. That threw my needle way over into the green area as has other
plays at that park over the past. I shall miss all those exciting moments. I
could always depend on Hollywood Park giving me my little pick me up in
the evening. The horse I picked, I could not understand the crowd making
it one of the least to win. It had two 5F workouts one of which was a
bullet, E horse with 8 speed points and it looked like the Pace would be
slow. So I figured if he gets out there right away, he can do it. That's what
he did and he never had to look back. The favorite finished 3rd. So many
times when I ask myself questions, like, why the hell are thinking this horse
does not have a better chance? The final analysis has helped me greatly.
So long HP it's been nice knowing ya! Those horses will have to go some
place so lets wait and see where.

[JohnGalt1]

Curious - What did you see in the 11?


For speed/pace I use all pace lines for turf races as suggested by Pizzola's book "Handicapping Magic."

I convert pace lines into Hambleton pace figures. In the 11 (Depreciable's) fastest race his final fraction of 103 is second fastest to the 7's 105. His total pace rating of 191 is one point slower than the 12 (Insideoutside).

I always look at the second fastest pace line as confirmation that the fastest isn't an aberration. His second fastest was 189.

I included the 9 and the 12 in my pick four.

The 5, Woodmans Luck has one turf pace line. The total pace rating was 183. But the 5 was 33% (5 for 15) 2nd after claim and 29% with Nakatani with a +1.59 ROI for the past 365 days. And the breeding was better than average 108 points from Bris.

I had a good reason to leave off my ticket, but his win was not a total upset.

And my horse was verrrry close, so my handicapping was good, but the results were :bang:

[wiffleball whizz]

The $10 includes parking, a program, and access to the clubhouse. It is a reasonable price IMO.


Not terriible IMO

[wiffleball whizz]

Off topic question but not really......

Am I wrong for asking if anybody saw a photo after the race

[FiveWide]

Off topic question but not really......

Am I wrong for asking if anybody saw a photo after the race

I saw one floating around on twitter. I'll see if I can dig it up.


-Five

[Stillriledup]

Off topic question but not really......

Am I wrong for asking if anybody saw a photo after the race
http://www.paulickreport.com/news/ray-s-paddock/thats-a-wrap/

[wiffleball whizz]

Pretty cool photo I came across

[BlueShoe]

The $10 includes parking, a program, and access to the clubhouse. It is a reasonable price IMO.
No it was not. For regulars that wished to attend very often it was way too much. Why should patrons be forced to pay for something they did not want or use? Back in the days when HOL was attended often, we would trim costs by parking free at the Forum, an easy walk away, and would purchase books of tickets in advance at a discount price for $1.50 each. Programs were $.75 or a dollar, and were required then, before the Form began publishing official program numbers. Factoring inflation, that might be 4 or 5 bucks today total, not 10. As for the clubhouse, the view of the races was not good, if in the clubhouse for some reason, would usually walk into the grandstand and stay there if I could, if not with another party.

[thespaah]

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/ray-s-paddock/thats-a-wrap/
Printed it and stuck it on my wall. Thanks for the link.

[dilanesp]

No it was not. For regulars that wished to attend very often it was way too much. Why should patrons be forced to pay for something they did not want or use? Back in the days when HOL was attended often, we would trim costs by parking free at the Forum, an easy walk away, and would purchase books of tickets in advance at a discount price for $1.50 each. Programs were $.75 or a dollar, and were required then, before the Form began publishing official program numbers. Factoring inflation, that might be 4 or 5 bucks today total, not 10. As for the clubhouse, the view of the races was not good, if in the clubhouse for some reason, would usually walk into the grandstand and stay there if I could, if not with another party.

In other words, you parked on someone else's private lot and freeloaded on the parking (which many other racetracks are able to stop you from doing), and as for the remainder of the cost, you paid $2.50, which in 1980 dollars converts to $7.07 now.

And for that $7.07, you couldn't get a seat near the finish line (because in those days there were far more people at the track) and couldn't get into the clubhouse. If you added either of those things you are at $10 in 2013 dollars even without the parking.

I've found this with a lot of "those were the days" talk. You really weren't paying much less. And you were definitely getting less.

Further, you really didn't answer my earlier point. Racetracks cost money to operate. Live racing is not free to put on. In the old days, with the larger crowd, Hollywood Park could spread its fixed costs such as track personnel and maintenance and barns and the like over a larger group of people. All that stuff costs exactly the same with 20,000 there as it does with 3,000 there.

So as the crowds get smaller, the cost per patron for the racetrack increases.

$10 is NOT a lot of money. It's just not. You are talking about less than the cost of a movie in Southern California. Less than the cost of a restaurant meal, even in a cheap sit down restaurant. Less than the cost of a bracelet for your 14 year old daughter. It's nothing.

Sorry, Betfair Hollywood Park, and every other racetrack, has the right to ask its patrons to part with $10, an absolutely tiny sum, for the privilege of seeing live racing, an operation that requires a large staff and a lot of infrastructure.

[Stillriledup]

In other words, you parked on someone else's private lot and freeloaded on the parking (which many other racetracks are able to stop you from doing), and as for the remainder of the cost, you paid $2.50, which in 1980 dollars converts to $7.07 now.

And for that $7.07, you couldn't get a seat near the finish line (because in those days there were far more people at the track) and couldn't get into the clubhouse. If you added either of those things you are at $10 in 2013 dollars even without the parking.

I've found this with a lot of "those were the days" talk. You really weren't paying much less. And you were definitely getting less.

Further, you really didn't answer my earlier point. Racetracks cost money to operate. Live racing is not free to put on. In the old days, with the larger crowd, Hollywood Park could spread its fixed costs such as track personnel and maintenance and barns and the like over a larger group of people. All that stuff costs exactly the same with 20,000 there as it does with 3,000 there.

So as the crowds get smaller, the cost per patron for the racetrack increases.

$10 is NOT a lot of money. It's just not. You are talking about less than the cost of a movie in Southern California. Less than the cost of a restaurant meal, even in a cheap sit down restaurant. Less than the cost of a bracelet for your 14 year old daughter. It's nothing.

Sorry, Betfair Hollywood Park, and every other racetrack, has the right to ask its patrons to part with $10, an absolutely tiny sum, for the privilege of seeing live racing, an operation that requires a large staff and a lot of infrastructure.

But they're already taking 20 cents out of every dollar that you wager. So, you're essentially "paying to pay".

If your theory held water, restaurants would all charge a "Delivery fee" if you ordered food...but they do not, some are free delivery.

If they want to charge admission, how about 3 bucks and not 10?

[olddaddy]

Sorry, Betfair Hollywood Park, and every other racetrack, has the right to ask its patrons to part with $10, an absolutely tiny sum, for the privilege of seeing live racing, an operation that requires a large staff and a lot of infrastructure.

I guess you think vegas casinos should charge an admission fee also considering their infrastructure and large staffs?

[pondman]

Back in the days when HOL was attended often, we would trim costs by parking free at the Forum, an easy walk away, and would purchase books of tickets in advance at a discount price for $1.50 each. Programs were $.75 or a dollar, and were required then, before the Form began publishing official program numbers. Factoring inflation, that might be 4 or 5 bucks today total, not 10. As for the clubhouse, the view of the races was not good, if in the clubhouse for some reason, would usually walk into the grandstand and stay there if I could, if not with another party.

We did this a lot. Also parked in the mall at Santa Anita-- sometimes to avoid the traffic jam.

[FiveWide]

If they want to charge admission, how about 3 bucks and not 10?


LS charges $5 general admission for live racing, nothing for simulcast. But you can get a free Star Player card and get in for $3. If you want on the 2nd/3rd floors that costs another $3. Bring a Pepsi can in on Sundays and get in free plus a large Pepsi. They also don't charge for parking unless you valet. They used to charge admission for simulcast and parking but they quit that several years ago.

They also have a fantastic simulcast schedule. Almost any track you want to bet they carry and all the races. I read someone say in a post once about one of the west coast tracks not simulcasting a track's full card. Is this really true?


-Five

[dilanesp]

But they're already taking 20 cents out of every dollar that you wager. So, you're essentially "paying to pay".

If your theory held water, restaurants would all charge a "Delivery fee" if you ordered food...but they do not, some are free delivery.

If they want to charge admission, how about 3 bucks and not 10?

The TRACK is not receiving 20 cents out of every dollar wagered. Don't confuse total takeout with the track's share.

[dilanesp]

I guess you think vegas casinos should charge an admission fee also considering their infrastructure and large staffs?

I mentioned, upthread, all the additional costs associated with live racing. In return for the admission charge, you get the thrill of watching the sport live, which you cannot do in Vegas.

[dilanesp]

We did this a lot. Also parked in the mall at Santa Anita-- sometimes to avoid the traffic jam.

One weird aspect of this thread is the idea that because in some places it is possible to avoid paying for parking, that makes it completely unreasonable for the track to attempt to recover the lost revenue that may result.

This sort of thing should be no more controversial than a theater prohibiting outside food and drink to protect popcorn stand sales.

[BlueShoe]

In other words, you parked on someone else's private lot and freeloaded on the parking (which many other racetracks are able to stop you from doing)
We only did this when there was no event at the Forum. The entire lot was deserted except for us on those days. No racetrack except HOL was able to prevent a patron from not using their paid lot by parking elsewhere and just walking in. Perhaps at tracks located in congested metro areas there are no free parking spots close by, but in SoCal, at Santa Anita, Del Mar, and Fairplex, any person willing to stretch the legs a bit can park gratis. At Los Al parking is free unless you use preferred or valet.

So as the crowds get smaller, the cost per patron for the racetrack increases.
So if business in your store is not good, doubling your prices is going to bring in more customers and increase your bottom line?
$10 is NOT a lot of money. It's just not.
Yes it is to a modest bettor. After purchasing a Form and transportation costs, a player is out at least 20 bucks before they make their first wager. Calculate those costs for a fan that goes to the track 100-200 times a year.

Sorry, Betfair Hollywood Park, and every other racetrack, has the right to ask its patrons to part with $10, an absolutely tiny sum, for the privilege of seeing live racing, an operation that requires a large staff and a lot of infrastructure.
Is there any other track in North America that forces it's patrons to pay for parking and purchase a program, like it or not? Name one track that charges $10 for general admission. There are live racing tracks that charge fans less than $5 and offer free admission on dark day simulcasting. Many a comment I have heard from guys at Los Al and Fairplex about not going to HollyPark, and to a lessor extent, Santa Anita, because of expenses. SA has a much kinder financial bite than did HOL. Players card and lots of free passes to the clubhouse ease the strain quite a bit.

[cj's dad]

I attended the BC races in 1997. My wife had passed away in August of that year. I was spending most of my time at home feeling sorry for myself. Two friends of mine, who had already committed to attending the BC races implored me to accompany them to HP. I did and I had a blast. Each day after the races we went to a bar/restaurant in Topanga Canyon named "Froggies". It was one of the most interesting places I have ever been in my life; wannabe actors/actresses and Hollywood hangers on. There was a lookout from the drive through the canyon that afforded an incredible view of LA.

I got to see Skip Away win the Classic and when Whiskey Wisdom got up for 3rd, a nice tri was completed.

I do remember that HP was not in the best of 'hoods but the track itself was A-ONE.

Thanks for the memories HP !!

[dilanesp]

We only did this when there was no event at the Forum. The entire lot was deserted except for us on those days. No racetrack except HOL was able to prevent a patron from not using their paid lot by parking elsewhere and just walking in. Perhaps at tracks located in congested metro areas there are no free parking spots close by, but in SoCal, at Santa Anita, Del Mar, and Fairplex, any person willing to stretch the legs a bit can park gratis. At Los Al parking is free unless you use preferred or valet.


So if business in your store is not good, doubling your prices is going to bring in more customers and increase your bottom line?

Yes it is to a modest bettor. After purchasing a Form and transportation costs, a player is out at least 20 bucks before they make their first wager. Calculate those costs for a fan that goes to the track 100-200 times a year.


Is there any other track in North America that forces it's patrons to pay for parking and purchase a program, like it or not? Name one track that charges $10 for general admission. There are live racing tracks that charge fans less than $5 and offer free admission on dark day simulcasting. Many a comment I have heard from guys at Los Al and Fairplex about not going to HollyPark, and to a lessor extent, Santa Anita, because of expenses. SA has a much kinder financial bite than did HOL. Players card and lots of free passes to the clubhouse ease the strain quite a bit.

Part of the problem here is that you think the racetrack has to construct its model in a manner that is favorable to you, as opposed to fans who do use the parking and program and who do appreciate access to the clubhouse.

As I said, people who refuse to pay to park are costing the track revenue. The track needs that revenue.

Of course, you can say if they don't let you avoid the parking charge you won't go. And that's your right. But now the track's out of business.

You have to understand that for a business to stay in business, consumers need to be willing to pay enough money to the business to make it profitable. You can of course take the position that you have the right to be a tightwad and avoid any costs you don't want to pay, but the businesses whose customers are all tightwads tend to go out of business. This is why, for instance, a lot of airlines have gone under, and the ones that survived have pricing strategies that drive consumers nuts.

Tightwads save themselves a bit of money in the short term, and get mad when they are forced to pay more than they want, but they are also why we can't have nice things, like small appliances that last, airline seats with sufficient space, and racetracks that can stay in business.

Lastly, you can certainly find tracks that charge less than BHP. You can also find tracks that charge more, like Del Mar. Every track has its own cost structure and revenue model. I can tell you that the owner who instituted the all in one model at Hollywood Park, Dee Hubbard, ran a profitable operation. He saved money on parking attendants and many fans liked the faster ingress (racing fans are famous for arriving late and racing in to bet). Whether you liked it is besides the point- it brought in revenue when the track had competent ownership.

[NJ Stinks]

Part of the problem here is that you think the racetrack has to construct its model in a manner that is favorable to you, as opposed to fans who do use the parking and program and who do appreciate access to the clubhouse.

As I said, people who refuse to pay to park are costing the track revenue. The track needs that revenue.

Of course, you can say if they don't let you avoid the parking charge you won't go. And that's your right. But now the track's out of business.

You have to understand that for a business to stay in business, consumers need to be willing to pay enough money to the business to make it profitable. You can of course take the position that you have the right to be a tightwad and avoid any costs you don't want to pay, but the businesses whose customers are all tightwads tend to go out of business. This is why, for instance, a lot of airlines have gone under, and the ones that survived have pricing strategies that drive consumers nuts.

Tightwads save themselves a bit of money in the short term, and get mad when they are forced to pay more than they want, but they are also why we can't have nice things, like small appliances that last, airline seats with sufficient space, and racetracks that can stay in business.

Lastly, you can certainly find tracks that charge less than BHP. You can also find tracks that charge more, like Del Mar. Every track has its own cost structure and revenue model. I can tell you that the owner who instituted the all in one model at Hollywood Park, Dee Hubbard, ran a profitable operation. He saved money on parking attendants and many fans liked the faster ingress (racing fans are famous for arriving late and racing in to bet). Whether you liked it is besides the point- it brought in revenue when the track had competent ownership.

A few things:

1. No way is it right to charge someone for access to the clubhouse if the clubhouse is not desired. I can't see any other business charging "steak" prices even if the customer only wants to eat a "hotdog".

2. I can understand charging more for live racing. No doubt the track has a bundle of expenses to pay. My problem is charging somebody $10 a day for a meet that runs 28 days in 6 weeks. There is nothing unique, rare, or can't miss about a track open 28 days over 6 weeks. If you want people who don't need the clubhouse to come often, you can't make it too expensive for those people to see the live product more than a few times during the meet.

I can sum up my point this way. Yea, I like the luxury of a seat on an airplane that's got more space. So I can upgrade to Business or First Class by paying extra for more space . That's fair. No problem. Just don't tell me I have to pay Business or First Class prices even if I don't want to pay for the luxurious extra space. Unless your business can survive with me flying less.

[BlueShoe]

As I said, people who refuse to pay to park are costing the track revenue. The track needs that revenue.

Of course, you can say if they don't let you avoid the parking charge you won't go. And that's your right. But now the track's out of business.
Let's compare the racetrack to a restaurant. By your logic I am required to order something to drink, even though I do not wish to. I must order a cup of coffee or a soft drink or tea, or better still, an alcoholic beverage such as a cocktail or glass of wine, in spite of the fact that I no longer am a drinker? If I request only a glass of water the establishment is going to go bankrupt? Now I realize that beverages are a high profit item for restaurants, but if the place is unable to survive on the quality of it's food, it is my fault because I did not order something to drink?

[dilanesp]

A few things:

1. No way is it right to charge someone for access to the clubhouse if the clubhouse is not desired. I can't see any other business charging "steak" prices even if the customer only wants to eat a "hotdog".

2. I can understand charging more for live racing. No doubt the track has a bundle of expenses to pay. My problem is charging somebody $10 a day for a meet that runs 28 days in 6 weeks. There is nothing unique, rare, or can't miss about a track open 28 days over 6 weeks. If you want people who don't need the clubhouse to come often, you can't make it too expensive for those people to see the live product more than a few times during the meet.

I can sum up my point this way. Yea, I like the luxury of a seat on an airplane that's got more space. So I can upgrade to Business or First Class by paying extra for more space . That's fair. No problem. Just don't tell me I have to pay Business or First Class prices even if I don't want to pay for the luxurious extra space. Unless your business can survive with me flying less.

Your cable company charges you for channels you don't watch. Restaurants charge you for side orders you don't eat. Airlines charge you for sodas you don't drink, even with all the a la carte pricing we now have. Newspapers charge you for content you don't read.

You seem to think the purpose of a pricing strategy is to allow a cost conscious consumer to save as much money as possible. It is not. The purpose of a pricing strategy is to raise revenue. If a business raises revenue by bundling, they bundle. There's no moral component to it. They set a price that will maximize revenue, and you decide if it is worth it to pay.

The fact that a pricing strategy isn't convenient to you is irrelevant. Other people benefitted. The people who liked not having to stop at a parking attendant or to buy a program count too.

[dilanesp]

Let's compare the racetrack to a restaurant. By your logic I am required to order something to drink, even though I do not wish to. I must order a cup of coffee or a soft drink or tea, or better still, an alcoholic beverage such as a cocktail or glass of wine, in spite of the fact that I no longer am a drinker? If I request only a glass of water the establishment is going to go bankrupt? Now I realize that beverages are a high profit item for restaurants, but if the place is unable to survive on the quality of it's food, it is my fault because I did not order something to drink?

At most sit down restaurants, you pay the full price for an entree even if you don't want the sides. At Souplantation and other buffets, you pay full price no matter how little you eat.

Those strategies definitely defeat patrons who are trying to pay less by eating less, and favor those who eat everything. They are not immoral.

Pricing is always full of cross-subsidies. Someone is often paying for something they don't use and others do. Someone mentioned Vegas upthread- but those drinks aren't really free. They are paid from the slot takeout. If someone doesn't want to drink, isn't it unfair that they have to pay a higher slot takeout to subsidize drinkers? No, it isn't, because the purpose of a price is not to make you happy or provide tightwads the maximum ability to avoid costs.

[davew]

I never made it to Hollywood Park but remember seeing it a few times flying into LAX.

On eBay, someone is selling losing tickets from every race on closing day
(straight 10cent superfecta)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HOLLYWOOD-PARKs-FINAL-DAY-PARI-MUTUEL-TICKETS-FOR-ALL-11-RACES-MINT-RESULTS/141150376571?_trksid=p2047675.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D333008%26algo%3DRIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%2 6asc%3D321%26meid%3D3778436129514904769%26pid%3D10 0011%26prg%3D1167%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D5%26sd%3D291033 618272%26#ht_193wt_1219

[Stillriledup]

Will Hollywood Park be BETFAIR HOLLYWOOD PARK until the end of time? In other words, now that the track is defunct, can't we (meaning the TVG talking heads) go back to just calling it Hollywood Park? Unless Betfair bought the rights forever?

How does this work, anyone know?

[andtheyreoff]

Will Hollywood Park be BETFAIR HOLLYWOOD PARK until the end of time? In other words, now that the track is defunct, can't we (meaning the TVG talking heads) go back to just calling it Hollywood Park? Unless Betfair bought the rights forever?

How does this work, anyone know?

I'm glad the keys on your keyboard aren't sentient, because if they were, they'd have made their escape long ago, knowing the idiocy that they help create.

[fmolf]

If california were smart they would develop one circuit and move around the state....they seem to have so few horses splitting them between GGF and SA seems counterproductive ...then in the summer throw in the fairs justget all the horses together at one meet, at one track,at one time and divide the dates up that way.California racing is unbettable in my opinion whether northern or southern circuit.