Orb Retired, to Stand at Claiborne in 2014

[turninforhome10]

Orb, winner of this year's Kentucky Derby Presented by Yum! Brands (gr. I), has been retired and will stand at Claiborne Farm in 2014.

Read more on BloodHorse.com: http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/81863/orb-retired-to-stand-at-claiborne-in-2014#ixzz2jmlntnKj

[horses4courses]

The horse may have great bloodlines, but I can't see him commanding a high fee.
He starts at $25K, which seems about right.
The need for speed in modern US pedigrees will keep demand low, at least until he has some success.

[CincyHorseplayer]

Seeing him win in Florida last winter laying just off some fast paces I was surpised he literally did nothing after the Derby.It was only in that particular race that he was relegated to being a 1 run closer.In the Travers he was only off 4 lengths at any given time but just couldn't fire.

[classhandicapper]

Seeing him win in Florida last winter laying just off some fast paces I was surpised he literally did nothing after the Derby.It was only in that particular race that he was relegated to being a 1 run closer.In the Travers he was only off 4 lengths at any given time but just couldn't fire.

We tend to think of horses as developing slowly and evenly from 2 to 3 and then from 3 to 4. But there are early bloomers and late bloomers. There are also horses that seem to explode forward quickly and then flatten out.

A Sheets guy might say he had a lot more development early this year than is typical.

So maybe it wasn't totally unexpected that he peaked, went backwards a little, and never seemed to move forward after that. Some of the other 3yos simply went past him and he didn't stack up against the best older horses.

His reputation has been tarnished a little because he won the Derby off a fast pace. But IMO he was very good in Florida against both slow and fast paces and beat horses that subsequently ran well in other parts of the country while putting up good figures. IMO he was very good at that stage and was a legitimate Derby winner.

[Powder River Gin]

The other Malibu Moon horses at Keeneland this week seem high so he's doing his part for Spendthrift.... ;)

[turninforhome10]

Just a quick pedigree note.
Orb
Sire: Malibu Moon-AP Indy line of Bold Ruler
Dam-Lady Liberty Family 8-c Traces back to a very popular and well guarded female line that was imported by the great James Keene in true Keene stamina fashion. Developed by the Whitney's, held by the Wheatley's and now in Janney's and Phipp's hands. This line has given us the great stallion in Storm Cat, good stallions in Buckfinder, Icecapade, Fusiaichi Pegasus, Pine Bluff among others. This line has given the outstanding fillies in Ruffian and Terlingua(Storm Cat).
All this being said it will be interesting to see if Malibu Moon has a shot at being a future fork for AP Indy.
In this case, would a breeder go to Orb when they could still use Malibu Moon?
What I believe could happen is if Orb gets some high quality mares carrying Storm Cat or double of Secretariat mares, he could have a big shot a becoming a useful sire. He is the only Derby winner from the AP Indy line and was an early developer as his female line has shown early brilliance. He will probably cover some of Phipps and Janney's mares so that is a plus.

2017 at Saratoga, anyone taking odds that Shugg will have nice 2 yo Orb colt.

[CincyHorseplayer]

Just a quick pedigree note.
Orb
Sire: Malibu Moon-AP Indy line of Bold Ruler
Dam-Lady Liberty Family 8-c Traces back to a very popular and well guarded female line that was imported by the great James Keene in true Keene stamina fashion. Developed by the Whitney's, held by the Wheatley's and now in Janney's and Phipp's hands. This line has given us the great stallion in Storm Cat, good stallions in Buckfinder, Icecapade, Fusiaichi Pegasus, Pine Bluff among others. This line has given the outstanding fillies in Ruffian and Terlingua(Storm Cat).
All this being said it will be interesting to see if Malibu Moon has a shot at being a future fork for AP Indy.
In this case, would a breeder go to Orb when they could still use Malibu Moon?
What I believe could happen is if Orb gets some high quality mares carrying Storm Cat or double of Secretariat mares, he could have a big shot a becoming a useful sire. He is the only Derby winner from the AP Indy line and was an early developer as his female line has shown early brilliance. He will probably cover some of Phipps and Janney's mares so that is a plus.

2017 at Saratoga, anyone taking odds that Shugg will have nice 2 yo Orb colt.

With the success of the sons of sons of AP Indy I don't expect Orb to be any different.With AP Indy IMO representing the resurrection of the Bold Ruler line that gave us 2 of the last 3 TC winners and the domination of the Raise A Native/Mr Prospector lines in TC races ever since,I expect that cross to provide the first one we have had since.I'm new to all of this but I believe in my theory above.You really covered the female families nicely.Haven't spread my wings in understanding the wholeness of that area yet.Could you suggest some reading material?

[turninforhome10]

With the success of the sons of sons of AP Indy I don't expect Orb to be any different.With AP Indy IMO representing the resurrection of the Bold Ruler line that gave us 2 of the last 3 TC winners and the domination of the Raise A Native/Mr Prospector lines in TC races ever since,I expect that cross to provide the first one we have had since.I'm new to all of this but I believe in my theory above.You really covered the female families nicely.Haven't spread my wings in understanding the wholeness of that area yet.Could you suggest some reading material?
Great Breeders and their methods by Abram Hewitt is my go to guide. The author met many of the great breeders and discussed their methods. The part about Tesio is incredible. The Heritage site while being very academic is good for understanding female families and how they developed. They also have all their sources listed so you can find many books to research. Go to the Keeneland library. The ladies are great and can answer about any questions you might have regarding material. More about the family of Orb here. A lot deeper than I thought. Take a look at the notable members for a big surprise regarding Bold Ruler. http://www.tbheritage.com/HistoricDams/EngFoundationMares/Family8/Family8.html

[classhandicapper]

Speaking of AP Indy. Thank God for him or we would have lost a lot of the Seattle Slew line.

[CincyHorseplayer]

Great Breeders and their methods by Abram Hewitt is my go to guide. The author met many of the great breeders and discussed their methods. The part about Tesio is incredible. The Heritage site while being very academic is good for understanding female families and how they developed. They also have all their sources listed so you can find many books to research. Go to the Keeneland library. The ladies are great and can answer about any questions you might have regarding material. More about the family of Orb here. A lot deeper than I thought. Take a look at the notable members for a big surprise regarding Bold Ruler. http://www.tbheritage.com/HistoricDams/EngFoundationMares/Family8/Family8.html

I'm missing the big surprise,I'm in a zombielike state today for some reason,I can't wake up!Thanks for the references,going to check them at Amazon now.

[turninforhome10]

I'm missing the big surprise,I'm in a zombielike state today for some reason,I can't wake up!Thanks for the references,going to check them at Amazon now.
Bold Ruler is also from the same family as well as Nijinsky II, Damascus, Raise A Native and the mother of all broodmare sires Blue Larkspur.Very influential family. Good line for breeding and racing.
See female families explained http://www.tbheritage.com/HistoricDams/FamilyNumbers.html

[CincyHorseplayer]

Bold Ruler is also from the same family as well as Nijinsky II, Damascus, Raise A Native and the mother of all broodmare sires Blue Larkspur.Very influential family. Good line for breeding and racing.
See female families explained http://www.tbheritage.com/HistoricDams/FamilyNumbers.html

Man that's awesome.Appreciate it.I've learned a lot in a short period but have so much to learn still.It's definitely a pleasure though!

[turninforhome10]

Bold Ruler is also from the same family as well as Nijinsky II, Damascus, Raise A Native and the mother of all broodmare sires Blue Larkspur.Very influential family. Good line for breeding and racing.
See female families explained http://www.tbheritage.com/HistoricDams/FamilyNumbers.html
I guess I should qualify the above statement by saying that Orb is also a member of this family. Another person to look at for breeding is Anne Peters, former consultant for Three Chimneys. http://www.pedigreegoddess.com/

[CincyHorseplayer]

I guess I should qualify the above statement by saying that Orb is also a member of this family. Another person to look at for breeding is Anne Peters, former consultant for Three Chimneys. http://www.pedigreegoddess.com/

Yeah I didn't quite get the leap at first.I got ya.

[FantasticDan]

Steve Haskin: Why was Orb retired? (http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/horse-racing-steve-haskin/archive/2013/11/09/why-was-orb-retired.aspx)

[classhandicapper]

Steve Haskin: Why was Orb retired? (http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/horse-racing-steve-haskin/archive/2013/11/09/why-was-orb-retired.aspx)

I'd have to speculate they thought he hadn't developed much after Florida and if he didn't develop going into his 4YO season, he wouldn't be competitive and they'd waste a year and hurt his reputation further.

[thaskalos]

For a guy who has been involved in this game for 45 years, Haskin is indeed "naive". The reason for Orb's retirement is obvious, to me at least; he just did not look capable of winning any major races down the road...and the thought of losing race after race did not appeal to his "blue-blooded" connections.

Of course Stuart Janney said that he believed Orb would have had "a very successful 4 year-old campaign"; what else would we have expected him to say?

But actions speak louder than words...