The "Watered down" NFL. Garbage product.

[Stillriledup]

Most of you guys grew up watching Bradshaw, Swann, Stallworth, Lambert, Ham and the players of the 70s, you remember those teams of the Steelers, and the Cowboys and the Vikings. You also remembered The Joe Montana era and the Steve Young era and what you see now is essentially a different sport.

The rules are different, there's a lot more scoring, a lot more "Fake good teams" who just don't show up for whatever reason. You have Philly get embarrassed by a bad Giants team and they can barely score a point, than they come out and lay 50 pts on the Raiders, who are better than the Giants? You have the Jets, give up 50, they get annihilated by FORTY points and then magically they win the next game vs a 'quality' opponent?

You have Miami get destroyed in the 2nd half by the Patriots, they quit like dogs and their body language was pathetic and then they magically transform into a winning team the next week? Same thing with the Redskins, they got humiliated by Denver in the 2nd half looking like a bunch of clowns and yet, here they are coming back the following week as winners vs a decent (enough) team.

If you want to handicap the current NFL, you don't want to use any logic, you want to bet on teams who were garbage in the previous week, teams like the Eagles, Jets, Fins, and Skins who all got crushed last week, turn into world beaters overnight.

So i know you guys would say "but SRU, don't you want parity, don't you want everyone to have a chance" and to that i would say i don't mind different teams having a shot, but i don't want to sacrifice quality to get it. What i'm seeing is NOT quality play, you have Seattle almost losing to Tampa at HOME?

This is a hard game, you have rules to protect the QBs, they want scoring, they have changed the rules so there is more scoring, you have very inconsistent performances weekly, jekyll and hyde league, the top teams don't consistently show up, there are SO many more injuries nowadays than you used to have in the 70s and 80s...at least it seems like that anyway.

The NFL is like seeing a really hot chick and saying to yourself "geez, she's hot" and then you turn around and 5 seconds later, you see the same girl and she's ugly. That is what happens in the NFL, you sit there and watch a 3 hour NFL game and after the game say "good performance, those guys are good" and then the next week, that same "good" team is crap.

[wiffleball whizz]

Well said!!!!!

Next weeks bets.....raiders

[LottaKash]

SRU, this year especially, I have the same thoughts running thru this old brain of mine, as well....

Maybe I have seen too much sports and way too many games, but this year I am having a hard time getting into a sport that I have loved for so many years....

Totally unimpressed by any one team so far....Sure, I have seen a game or two this season that was enjoyable and entertaining, but for the most part, I tend to nod off a bit more than usual these days....Old age maybe has something to do with it...

Still, when it is game on, I can still stay the course with no troubles....haha...

Well, at least I am getting my proper rest... :jump:

[wiffleball whizz]

It will never get better.....only more offensive driven

Wait until a big name qb goes down how it becomes even more unwatchable with 49-42 finals

Nfl is bull.....the xfl should have waited 10 years and branded the no holds barred rules

Will never forget opening nite of the xfl being at the meadowlans racetrack watcing from the owners boxes I really liked the xfl

[Robert Goren]

With the hard salary cap and QBs eating a huge amount of it, all teams have issues. Throw a few injuries and you have league of team that can be exploited. It just a matter of a team running into another team that can exploit them. Add to the mix that there are a lot of bad coaches in the league right now, Almost anything can happen and does. Take a team like Seattle. They lose 3 offensive tackles and a couple of players on defense and they become beatable by even bad teams. The run option is known for eating up QBs, but it also apparently eats up tackles.

[MutuelClerk]

Totally agree SRU. It's hard to watch. Hard to enjoy. Maybe were all getting old and saying it was better when we were kids. In something's that's probably true. In this case it's not.

[gheuks]

The NFL is all about parity. There will never be a dynasty like we saw in the past.

[Robert Fischer]

If you want to handicap the current NFL, you don't want to use any logic, you want to bet on teams who were garbage in the previous week, teams like the Eagles, Jets, Fins, and Skins who all got crushed last week, turn into world beaters overnight.
It's hard to bet teams like the Eagles, Jets, Fins, and Skinsor the teams they played: the Raiders, Saints, Bengals, Chargers and think you have any degree of certainty.

I'm the world's worst football handicapper, but there has to be some fundamental similarities to other fields of speculation.

[Robert Fischer]

Yea, the league is watered down.
I agree on that point.

I still find it entertaining.

It's a pro sports business, and the more you see that as a fan, the harder it can get to suspend disbelief.

I'm not big into NFL betting, but I notice some of the stuff, and I am a nut about coaching and strategy and notice some of that stuff... sometimes I have to remind myself to have a good time. :D

^I know this isn't particularly useful to someone who has action.

[Valuist]

I think some teams play well the following week after getting destoyed. We saw it this week. Nobody likes getting embarrassed. The Steelers and Raiders have plenty to be embarrassed about after yesterday.

[Marshall Bennett]

I think some teams play well the following week after getting destoyed. We saw it this week. Nobody likes getting embarrassed. The Steelers and Raiders have plenty to be embarrassed about after yesterday.
Add the Saints to your list. They'll probably take out their frustrations by destroying Dallas at home next week.

[Stillriledup]

Totally agree SRU. It's hard to watch. Hard to enjoy. Maybe were all getting old and saying it was better when we were kids. In something's that's probably true. In this case it's not.

I thought of this, is it just a case of "missing the old days"?

I just want it to MEAN something. I want my 3 hours of sitting in front of the tube to matter. If i watch something and then 7 days later i watch it again, i want to be able to somewhat validate what i was watching, and a lot of times, i'm not able to do that.

Maybe because the players are so big, fast and strong, there are many more injuries...or, maybe there were massive injuries "back in the day" and we just didnt hear about it because there being no internet or social media.

Like RG says, you have a ton of injuries and even good teams can become bad overnight.

[cj's dad]

Most of you guys grew up watching Bradshaw, Swann, Stallworth, Lambert, Ham and the players of the 70s, you remember those teams of the Steelers, and the Cowboys and the Vikings. You also remembered The Joe Montana era and the Steve Young era and what you see now is essentially a different sport.

The rules are different, there's a lot more scoring, a lot more "Fake good teams" who just don't show up for whatever reason. You have Philly get embarrassed by a bad Giants team and they can barely score a point, than they come out and lay 50 pts on the Raiders, who are better than the Giants? You have the Jets, give up 50, they get annihilated by FORTY points and then magically they win the next game vs a 'quality' opponent?

You have Miami get destroyed in the 2nd half by the Patriots, they quit like dogs and their body language was pathetic and then they magically transform into a winning team the next week? Same thing with the Redskins, they got humiliated by Denver in the 2nd half looking like a bunch of clowns and yet, here they are coming back the following week as winners vs a decent (enough) team.

If you want to handicap the current NFL, you don't want to use any logic, you want to bet on teams who were garbage in the previous week, teams like the Eagles, Jets, Fins, and Skins who all got crushed last week, turn into world beaters overnight.

So i know you guys would say "but SRU, don't you want parity, don't you want everyone to have a chance" and to that i would say i don't mind different teams having a shot, but i don't want to sacrifice quality to get it. What i'm seeing is NOT quality play, you have Seattle almost losing to Tampa at HOME?

This is a hard game, you have rules to protect the QBs, they want scoring, they have changed the rules so there is more scoring, you have very inconsistent performances weekly, jekyll and hyde league, the top teams don't consistently show up, there are SO many more injuries nowadays than you used to have in the 70s and 80s...at least it seems like that anyway.

The NFL is like seeing a really hot chick and saying to yourself "geez, she's hot" and then you turn around and 5 seconds later, you see the same girl and she's ugly. That is what happens in the NFL, you sit there and watch a 3 hour NFL game and after the game say "good performance, those guys are good" and then the next week, that same "good" team is crap.No, I grew up watching Starr, Unitas, ray Berry. Lenny Moore, Paul Horning and early on Jim Brown. I find it interesting that every player you mentioned was a Pittsberg Stiller. Try to expand your horizons !!

[Stillriledup]

No, I grew up watching Starr, Unitas, ray Berry. Lenny Moore, Paul Horning and early on Jim Brown. I find it interesting that every player you mentioned was a Pittsberg Stiller. Try to expand your horizons !!

That was the best team of the 70s and one of the all time great teams. The reason i mentioned them, is because they were the team you could set your watch by, they always won and their players always played..not like some of today's players who have season ending injuries on the first cut they make in the first practice of the season.

[newtothegame]

If you look at the number of suspensions, still relatively small in terms of the number of players....but, I believe the injuries are due to performance enhancing drugs. These guys are taking their bodies to the limits in strength and weight training. Then they go out and run low forty times and have collisions with other guys running just as fast. When you get three hundred pound guys colliding at these freakish speeds (for humans), things are going to break and contort in ways they are not supposed to.

Just look at the number of hamstrings.....like tightly wound guitar strings...pop!
Concussions seem to be higher then normal as well......

All of this leads to a watered down product. Add in the fact of the league trying to "control" the hits....(and they are making it worse in my opinion)....
Well, this is what we get!

[Striker]

If you look at the number of suspensions, still relatively small in terms of the number of players....but, I believe the injuries are due to performance enhancing drugs. These guys are taking their bodies to the limits in strength and weight training. Then they go out and run low forty times and have collisions with other guys running just as fast. When you get three hundred pound guys colliding at these freakish speeds (for humans), things are going to break and contort in ways they are not supposed to.

Just look at the number of hamstrings.....like tightly wound guitar strings...pop!
Concussions seem to be higher then normal as well......

All of this leads to a watered down product. Add in the fact of the league trying to "control" the hits....(and they are making it worse in my opinion)....
Well, this is what we get!
PEDs have been around for a pretty good amount of time in the NFL, so why would it start this year?

[newtothegame]

PEDs have been around for a pretty good amount of time in the NFL, so why would it start this year?
I don't think it started this year....
You are correct that PED's have been around. And, as players get bigger and stronger, more and more accidents happen. In order for the players that are not using to keep up, what do you think happened? More and more take....

I think PEDS are widely used...... more so today then in the past.

[Striker]

I don't think it started this year....
You are correct that PED's have been around. And, as players get bigger and stronger, more and more accidents happen. In order for the players that are not using to keep up, what do you think happened? More and more take....

I think PEDS are widely used...... more so today then in the past.
I buy into the theory that players aren't in "hitting" shape like they used to be, which has been implemented with the CBA by the players wanting less full contact practices and no more 2 a days. You can be the strongest or fastest player around but if you can't take those hits, then injury it is.

[burnsy]

The new rules make it more like basketball, the scores have gone way up over the years. If you can't "chuck" the reciever or jam him up after the "buffer", it becomes a game of pitch and catch. 9 out of 10 pass play penalties are defensive interference or defensive holding. The recievers are wide open under this format and if there is an interference call you eat up a 60 yard chunk or more on a freakin penalty. The dumbest rule in the league, why don't you just hand them a score at that point? This started years ago but the added deal where you can't hit the recievers just makes them bolder, especially over the middle of the field. SRU is right, the game is way different than when we were kids. Some teams don't even try to run. The pass play is exciting but its gone way over the top. With the rules the way they are. You also have dumb coaching as posted by RG. The teams with leads that go into the "prevent" defense and then get burnt after they outplayed the other team for 56 minutes........earth to coaches....you can't play like that in this era....they'll eat you for lunch in a minute or two at the most.

[Robert Goren]

There is a real measurable difference in the ability of the coaches in the NFL to understand the ramifications of the rule changes. One of the things that I have noticed is that the changes in the rules have brought about a lot of short term injuries to almost every position on the field. The deeper teams are able to adjust with in a week or two to a key injury (like SF and Sea) while other teams just seem to fall into a funk(like Atl). It will be interesting to see what happens to GB without Rodgers. In the past, they have adjusted to injuries very well, but Rodgers is a special case.

[Valuist]

I've seen a LOT of botched fade patterns recently. Unless you are throwing to Calvin Johnson, you may want to scrap this play.

[Robert Fischer]

I've only seen bits and pieces of this game, so I have no idea if the rest of the game has been representative of this, but I've seen the Steelers tackle Bills receivers on several plays today with no flag.

Great :ThmbUp:

[MJC922]

In agreement with the OP. I'm someone with a passion for the NFL but I haven't watched it in years -- probably stopped watching shortly after the salary cap, maybe the 1998 or 99 seasons. IMO great talent is best brought out on the field when other talent is on the field. Those Cowboy teams with Aikman, Irvin, Harper, the 49ers with Young, Rice, Brent Jones. The defenses were on another level because you could actually spend enough to keep a good team together. Guys like Romanowski kicked it up, I miss watching those teams. When it finally seemed as though the old teams were three touchdowns better than any of the post-cap champs, I'd seen enough. I would rather have eight really good teams in the playoffs battle it out and then have it come down to a couple of teams that can be considered all time greats. Personally I would like to see the cap removed someday. Don't get me wrong I've caught a few superbowls and they have been entertaining, not much in the way of defense though, nothing new there.

[wiffleball whizz]

If it wasn't for gambling I wouldn't watch NFL for all the tea in china

This a garbage and no different then the wwe/wwf

[TheEdge07]

If it wasn't for gambling I wouldn't watch NFL for all the tea in china

This a garbage and no different then the wwe/wwf


Wiffy you have coaches passing out at halftime..others having heart attacks on golf courses..meanwhile igconito and Martin are like Dusty vs Flair..Goodell is Mcmahon..Cutler leaves the ring for Mcnown to finish the lost..

Your right WFL..

[wiffleball whizz]

Wiffy you have coaches passing out at halftime..others having heart attacks on golf courses..meanwhile igconito and Martin are like Dusty vs Flair..Goodell is Mcmahon..Cutler leaves the ring for Mcnown to finish the lost..

Your right WFL..


It's a joke....

If the script ever slipped out of the briefcase and u found it you would be set for life

In the future watch for stupid plays that's result in game changing swings be hammered by "they"/NFL for blowing the script

[precocity]

It's a joke....

If the script ever slipped out of the briefcase and u found it you would be set for life

In the future watch for stupid plays that's result in game changing swings be hammered by "they"/NFL for blowing the script

stl kills indy! :rolleyes:

[wiffleball whizz]

stl kills indy! :rolleyes:


Yep...and under wraps to boot


35-0 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Stone rehearsal

[cj's dad]

This is the worst football I have ever seen. There is no predictability at all. Colts lose big ??? SF scores 9 points??? I'm starting to believe the Whiz's belief that this s--t is fixed. The only other plausible explanation is that these guys are just not that good, and there is no concistentcy.

[wiffleball whizz]

This is the worst football I have ever seen. There is no predictability at all. Colts lose big ??? SF scores 9 points??? I'm starting to believe the Whiz's belief that this s--t is fixed. The only other plausible explanation is that these guys are just not that good, and there is no concistentcy.


Believe me when I tell u there was never a doubt with the black birds today.....Cincy went in the can in OT/that 4th down play to get the birds home

Told u all week they weren't losing that game

[cj]

It is called parity. You guys are nuts if you think football players are going to go out and not try. That is the easiest way to get injured.

[Stillriledup]

You know what odds you could have gotten if you made the prediction that the Rams would score the first 35 points of the game in indy? If they run that computer simulation a million times, does even one simulation have Stl up 35-0 on the road vs a team that's supposed to be better than them? I say no.

Hey Whiz, love your "Script falling out of the briefcase" theory, awesome!

The NFL is a multi BILLION dollar business...heck, some of their individual TEAMS are worth over a billion, the entire league and how much money they make is astounding.

Do you think that the NFL and their head honchos would leave ONE THIN DIME on the table if they thought scripting the results would result in more revenue?

If you were the head of a company worth a hundred billion (yep, with a B) or more would you just sit back in your little NYC corner office and just let the teams "battle it out" and have the best man win? Do their high paid execs just let the results fall randomly, or do they have sophisticated computer models that know exactly what they would want to happen in a "perfect world"?

Most of us were born at night, hopefully none of you were born last night. :D

[Valuist]

Another thing that's a joke about the NFL is the injury process.

Teams hire doctors as their medical staff. Teams then put a gun to these doctors heads and basically tell them to clear anybody who has a pulse and isn't concussed, to play. Then the coach can make a decision and rationalize it by saying "our medical staff cleared him to play".

This is a joke. Cutler tore his groin three weeks ago. I suffered the same injury in baseball in high school, and I guarantee you, if it truly was a tear, no way could somebody play QB well with that little recovery. So late last week, Trestman comes out and says "our staff has cleared Jay to play". The backup, McCoun, already proved he is capable. At full strength for both, Cutler is better. But if McCoun is 100% and Cutler is 60%, it shouldn't be a difficult decision.

Yet Trestman took the easy way out. He started Cutler because he was "cleared to play" yet we all know that's a joke. If Trestman had any balls, he would've overrode the "decision" and started McCoun. But he took the safe approach, knowing he could throw the medical staff under the bus if the decision was proved wrong. And it was proved wrong.

[delayjf]

PEDs have been around for a pretty good amount of time in the NFL, so why would it start this year?
Its unbelievable how players have grown over the years. I think Romo is listed as weighting 230 lbs - he don't look no 230 lbs.

[Stillriledup]

Another thing that's a joke about the NFL is the injury process.

Teams hire doctors as their medical staff. Teams then put a gun to these doctors heads and basically tell them to clear anybody who has a pulse and isn't concussed, to play. Then the coach can make a decision and rationalize it by saying "our medical staff cleared him to play".

This is a joke. Cutler tore his groin three weeks ago. I suffered the same injury in baseball in high school, and I guarantee you, if it truly was a tear, no way could somebody play QB well with that little recovery. So late last week, Trestman comes out and says "our staff has cleared Jay to play". The backup, McCoun, already proved he is capable. At full strength for both, Cutler is better. But if McCoun is 100% and Cutler is 60%, it shouldn't be a difficult decision.

Yet Trestman took the easy way out. He started Cutler because he was "cleared to play" yet we all know that's a joke. If Trestman had any balls, he would've overrode the "decision" and started McCoun. But he took the safe approach, knowing he could throw the medical staff under the bus if the decision was proved wrong. And it was proved wrong.

Most Everyone in the NFL is playing with some sort of injury, there would be nobody left to play if everyone waited till they were 100%.

[Valuist]

Most Everyone in the NFL is playing with some sort of injury, there would be nobody left to play if everyone waited till they were 100%.

There's a big difference between playing hurt and playing injured. Bumps, bruises, minor muscle pulls and even sprains can be played with. Cutler didn't have a muscle pull; he had a tear. Huge difference, and it showed as he was completely uncomfortable, and ultimately ended up hurting his ankle as well as it looks like he will be out against the Ravens. I'd take McCoun at 100% over a 60% Cutler.

[Marshall Bennett]

How many are playing with brain damage? Makes you wonder if for no other reason, the drama that played out in Miami. :)

[NJ Stinks]

How many are playing with brain damage? Makes you wonder if for no other reason, the drama that played out in Miami. :)

Imagine the interest in tonight's outcome if there was no gambling involved....

[precocity]

I know the cowgirls defence are a bunch of no heart I pulled my hamstring punks!

[Valuist]

As for the product slipping in quality, several reasons I believe:

Rule changes that purely favor the offense. I guess I'm a purist but the 51-48 Broncos-Cowboys game was not my idea of perfection. Bad defense had something to do with that. And because the rule changes favor the offense so much, DBs do what they have to do; they hold more and interfere more.

Secondly, with the new collective bargaining agreement, teams are limited in terms of how much time they can spend practicing, and how much hitting goes on. If practice makes perfect, lack of practice breeds inperfections.

Now with the focus on head injuries, how long before tackling is outlawed and they play flag football? The game I see now isn't the same game I grew up watching in the 1970s. The NFL has some real problems down the road.

[Quagmire]

Now with the focus on head injuries, how long before tackling is outlawed and they play flag football? The game I see now isn't the same game I grew up watching in the 1970s. The NFL has some real problems down the road.

I agree 100%. That personal foul penalty called against SF late in the game yesterday was ridiculous.

[cj]

I agree 100%. That personal foul penalty called against SF late in the game yesterday was ridiculous.

Refs don't have the benefit of replay on that play, and live it sure looked like a penalty. Hard to fault them too much in my opinion.

[cj]

Now with the focus on head injuries, how long before tackling is outlawed and they play flag football? The game I see now isn't the same game I grew up watching in the 1970s. The NFL has some real problems down the road.

Well, the game in the 1970s was different. It also left a lot of guys walking around with serious problems, and many of them are long dead, way before the life expectancy of a normal person. I can live without that game even if it was better for fans.

[PhantomOnTour]

The rule I have a problem with is this "extended possession" rule they now have for receptions, esp TD catches.
This is the rule that robbed Calvin Johnson a few years ago and robbed the 49ers yesterday vs the Saints (although they scored on the next play or two).

The Niner receiver caught a pass in the end zone, dragged his second foot in bounds and then out of bounds (which effectively ends the play in my book), only to drop the ball when he hit the ground...which was some two yards out of bounds.
The rule was "no catch" since he didn't hold on through his tumble to the turf.
RIDICULOUS....he established possession and had two feet in bounds. Once that dragged foot makes contact with the ground out of bounds I say the play should end right there....thus a touchdown.

[Stillriledup]

The rule I have a problem with is this "extended possession" rule they now have for receptions, esp TD catches.
This is the rule that robbed Calvin Johnson a few years ago and robbed the 49ers yesterday vs the Saints (although they scored on the next play or two).

The Niner receiver caught a pass in the end zone, dragged his second foot in bounds and then out of bounds (which effectively ends the play in my book), only to drop the ball when he hit the ground...which was some two yards out of bounds.
The rule was "no catch" since he didn't hold on through his tumble to the turf.
RIDICULOUS....he established possession and had two feet in bounds. Once that dragged foot makes contact with the ground out of bounds I say the play should end right there....thus a touchdown.

Yet, the 'crossing the plane' rule doesnt adhere to the same standards, if you're flying thru the air and extend the ball over the imaginary goal line, its a TD no matter what happens to you before you hit the ground.

[cj]

The rule I have a problem with is this "extended possession" rule they now have for receptions, esp TD catches.
This is the rule that robbed Calvin Johnson a few years ago and robbed the 49ers yesterday vs the Saints (although they scored on the next play or two).

The Niner receiver caught a pass in the end zone, dragged his second foot in bounds and then out of bounds (which effectively ends the play in my book), only to drop the ball when he hit the ground...which was some two yards out of bounds.
The rule was "no catch" since he didn't hold on through his tumble to the turf.
RIDICULOUS....he established possession and had two feet in bounds. Once that dragged foot makes contact with the ground out of bounds I say the play should end right there....thus a touchdown.

It is an awful rule that was created to make things easy on officials. But still, at least it is one rule that actually favors the defense, so I can live with it.

[Quagmire]

Refs don't have the benefit of replay on that play, and live it sure looked like a penalty. Hard to fault them too much in my opinion.

I agree with you on it looking like a penalty in real time CJ...it looked like a head shot.

If the NFL is serious about getting the calls correct they need to expand the use of replay to include questionable penalties like the this one and the one at the end of the Carolina New England game last night, they affect the outcome of games just as much as what they do use replay for now.

[Stillriledup]

I agree with you on it looking like a penalty in real time CJ...it looked like a head shot.

If the NFL is serious about getting the calls correct they need to expand the use of replay to include questionable penalties like the this one and the one at the end of the Carolina New England game last night, they affect the outcome of games just as much as what they do use replay for now.

New England got ticky tack calls in their favor all game, including on the last drive, but nobody seems to want to debate those because .......well, i'm not sure why, maybe selective memories.

[burnsy]

:) [QUOTE=Stillriledup]New England got ticky tack calls in their favor all game, including on the last drive, but nobody seems to want to debate those because .......well, i'm not sure why, maybe selective memories.[/QUOTE

I don't want to debate it because i agree with you. For crying out loud, at the end of every pass play the players on BOTH sides look around for a flag...its gotten ridiculous. This thread just gets better and more acurate, 300 pound guys crying about bullying, the hit on Drew Brees (on the shoulder pad) may draw a fine (what BS) and that play last night when the Patriots are hoping for a "miracle" and the ball is thrown 3 yards short into double coverage, plus numerous BS calls before that even happened. If you play defense in that league, you are screwed...its not even fair anymore, tackling a guy in tackle football is now a penalty. Its all watered down for TV, the refs give scores like halloween candy even though the rules are so slighted in favor of scoring now anyway. I used to love NFL football, it used to be my favorite sport, but the penalties are making it unwatchable. Its so bad that the people that watch seem to want these BS calls. The ball went right to the defensive player, it was practically handed to him, held or not he was not going to get to that pass in a million years, he was at least 10 feet behind where it was thrown...it was a shitty pass, that only one guy could of caught and he did. Its barely the same game with these cheap calls and the new rules.

[Stillriledup]

:) [QUOTE=Stillriledup]New England got ticky tack calls in their favor all game, including on the last drive, but nobody seems to want to debate those because .......well, i'm not sure why, maybe selective memories.[/QUOTE

I don't want to debate it because i agree with you. For crying out loud, at the end of every pass play the players on BOTH sides look around for a flag...its gotten ridiculous. This thread just gets better and more acurate, 300 pound guys crying about bullying, the hit on Drew Brees (on the shoulder pad) may draw a fine (what BS) and that play last night when the Patriots are hoping for a "miracle" and the ball is thrown 3 yards short into double coverage, plus numerous BS calls before that even happened. If you play defense in that league, you are screwed...its not even fair anymore, tackling a guy in tackle football is now a penalty. Its all watered down for TV, the refs give scores like halloween candy even though the rules are so slighted in favor of scoring now anyway. I used to love NFL football, it used to be my favorite sport, but the penalties are making it unwatchable. Its so bad that the people that watch seem to want these BS calls. The ball went right to the defensive player, it was practically handed to him, held or not he was not going to get to that pass in a million years, he was at least 10 feet behind where it was thrown...it was a shitty pass, that only one guy could of caught and he did. Its barely the same game with these cheap calls and the new rules.

They're crying like little schoolgirls because the ref didnt make a call that's never been made in NFL history, it wasnt bad enough that the officials essentially kept them in the game all night long, but now they wanted to be handed the game on a play that the entire world knows is a free for all in the end zone, the precedent is that they never call it, no matter what and people are acting like a "penalty is a penalty" when they know the unwritten rules of the sport.

I didnt hear anyone pointing out all the times that Brady's O line held so he wouldnt get hit, but you know they all forget about the other "unwritten rules" that O lineman are essentially allowed to hold the pass rushers, but when an unwritten rule goes against them, they kick and scream like school children.

[dav4463]

Otis Taylor, Fred Biletnikoff, Don Maynard, Lance Alworth, John Stallworth, Lynn Swan, etc, etc....made great catches with defenders hanging all over them ...after being knocked down while running their route!

[Quagmire]

Some interesting ideas for rule changes. Some actually make sense.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10007291/whitlock-fixing-nfl-rules

[Stillriledup]

Do we think the product improved today?

[MutuelClerk]

No the product still sucks. However there is always one constant. Same Old Lions. Hahahahahahaha.

[Stillriledup]

No the product still sucks. However there is always one constant. Same Old Lions. Hahahahahahaha.

Its a horrendous product, look at the performances of the Ravens, Bears and Dolphins in "must win" games, pathetic.

[Tom]

How would you like to live in Bills Country and get them every single week? :rolleyes:

[Stillriledup]

Sorry to bump and oldie but goodie, since NFL is here, i thought this would be a great place to start.

Parity has essentially turned the NFL (and other major sports) into coin flips.

YAY WE WON means nothing because you didnt win because you were good, you won because the league is set up watered down, you won today, but you'll be crap tomorrow.

[_______]

Sorry to bump and oldie but goodie, since NFL is here, i thought this would be a great place to start.

Parity has essentially turned the NFL (and other major sports) into coin flips.

YAY WE WON means nothing because you didnt win because you were good, you won because the league is set up watered down, you won today, but you'll be crap tomorrow.

Disagree. There are GM's that will adapt well to the new environment and others who won't. There will still be teams that are at the ends of a bell curve.

I will agree that 400 yards is the new 300 yards for a quarterback. As terrible as that may be to some, it's not a bad trade off a reduction in cognitively disabled former players.

I can live with it.

[Dark Horse]

Goodell's NFL?

Orchestrated ballet, with a few sumo wrestlers tossed in to keep up appearances.

(two imaginary 'unnecessary roughness' penalties just handed the Ravens another TD against the Steelers).

[Stillriledup]

NFL at Rock Bottom these days.

Cleveland is 6-4 and got embarrassed today by a .500 team and got humiliated by Jacksonville earlier in the year.

Washington, goes into Dallas and plays a great game against the team, at the time, was the best in the NFL so what happens? They come home a couple weeks later and lose by 20 to the Bucs?

You see this type of stuff every week, teams just don't perform at a high level back to back games, its really random when a team decides to try, any team, even the best teams. Back in the 70s and 80s and even into the 90s, you could count on the top teams playing great every week, they didn't mail in games...now, you have a very fragile product, mentally these guys just don't get up week in and week out, not sure why there's really no true great teams anymore.

[ronsmac]

NFL at Rock Bottom these days.

Cleveland is 6-4 and got embarrassed today by a .500 team and got humiliated by Jacksonville earlier in the year.

Washington, goes into Dallas and plays a great game against the team, at the time, was the best in the NFL so what happens? They come home a couple weeks later and lose by 20 to the Bucs?

You see this type of stuff every week, teams just don't perform at a high level back to back games, its really random when a team decides to try, any team, even the best teams. Back in the 70s and 80s and even into the 90s, you could count on the top teams playing great every week, they didn't mail in games...now, you have a very fragile product, mentally these guys just don't get up week in and week out, not sure why there's really no true great teams anymore.Salary cap. Pittsburgh had Bradshaw,Franco,Swann,Stallworth,Ham,Lambert,Bloun t,Wagner,Greene,Greenwood,Kolb,Webster,Holmes,and others I'm sure I'm missing ,all on the same team. That couldn't happen today.

[Stillriledup]

Salary cap. Pittsburgh had Bradshaw,Franco,Swann,Stallworth,Ham,Lambert,Bloun t,Wagner,Greene,Greenwood,Kolb,Webster,Holmes,and others I'm sure I'm missing ,all on the same team. That couldn't happen today.

The Raiders are 0-9 and they're in SD today and every time they gain a yard, the crowd erupts like its the Super Bowl. Seems like more Raider fans than Charger fans there. That's wild.

[ronsmac]

The Raiders are 0-9 and they're in SD today and every time they gain a yard, the crowd erupts like its the Super Bowl. Seems like more Raider fans than Charger fans there. That's wild.
When I was in the military I was stationed in San Diego. It seemed like there were more fans of other teams than of the Chargers. It's a huge military area with thousands of transplants. Tjat would be my guess for the lack of fan support.

[thaskalos]

The NFL better get ready for the Green Bay Packers. :eek:

[tucker6]

The NFL better get ready for the Green Bay Packers. :eek:
peaking waaay too soon.

[Marshall Bennett]

Teams in the NFL that get down 21+ pts early on the road nearly quit playing. Their attitude is "why get banged up we're gonna lose anyway, and I'm set financially for life". At least at home down 21 pts they hear the boos and may make some attempt to come back.
It's almost sickening. College football for me is 10X more exciting and rarely ever predictable with certainty. One thing predictable in the NFL for sure is, they'll only do as much as needed to impress their teammates and themselves.
The rest has already been given to them.

[Stillriledup]

The quality of play and the strength of the teams is at an all time low. The coaching and game mgmt decisions also at an all time low. The reffing isn't at an all time high if I'm being quite honest.

[MJC922]

Very talented deep lines on both sides of the ball are what's missing. I wish they'd get rid of the cap, get back to 6 or 8 good teams. The game has definitely changed to be more offense less defense, and I find the coaching, the calls to be horrific. Teams go on 4th and short even in their own territory all the time, and will throw on 3rd and short 4th and short even when they can run. I don't get it at all, nobody cares about field position, it meant everything back in the Parcells, Gibbs, Walsh era.

[Stillriledup]

Very talented deep lines on both sides of the ball are what's missing. I wish they'd get rid of the cap, get back to 6 or 8 good teams. The game has definitely changed to be more offense less defense, and I find the coaching, the calls to be horrific. Teams go on 4th and short even in their own territory all the time, and will throw on 3rd and short 4th and short even when they can run. I don't get it at all, nobody cares about field position, it meant everything back in the Parcells, Gibbs, Walsh era.

Back in the day, when you had the 86 Bears or the Steeler dynasty or the Jerry Rice 49ers in the heyday, you could count like clockwork those teams would play a top notch game. There's way more injuries these days seems like every other play someone is limping off the field, I don't remember seeing that in the glory days, guys were just tougher back then, certainly mentally tougher.

I loved the NFL back then, I don't remember thinking they needed to change anything.

[MJC922]

Back in the day, when you had the 86 Bears or the Steeler dynasty or the Jerry Rice 49ers in the heyday, you could count like clockwork those teams would play a top notch game. There's way more injuries these days seems like every other play someone is limping off the field, I don't remember seeing that in the glory days, guys were just tougher back then, certainly mentally tougher.

I loved the NFL back then, I don't remember thinking they needed to change anything.

Right with you there. It was a hell of a time, I never thought that could change. Every damn thing takes a turn for the worse, I can't even watch it without cringing let alone bet on it anymore.

[Stillriledup]

Right with you there. It was a hell of a time, I never thought that could change. Every damn thing takes a turn for the worse, I can't even watch it without cringing let alone bet on it anymore.

It's a lot more professional wrestlerish these days, they were better back in the day at making it seem legit, now, we all have questions about its legitimacy and instead of addressing them, it just gets swept under the rug, oh yeah, but they'll give a guy a suspension for smoking pot and let all the other stuff slide.

[ebcorde]

over half the teams do not even try to win. anyone know what the Patriots divisional record has been the last 15 years?

the AFC championship game always has Brady then Manning's team or Pittsburgh or Baltimore in the final. almost as bad as Barcelona and Real Madrid.

[ebcorde]

not sure if he's cheating, I think he's a master at understanding the rules.

He is using this short passing game, with some legal way of screening the defenders , exposing the weakness of the NFL rules.

No one can stop their short passing game, and they've been doing it for years.

[Stillriledup]

not sure if he's cheating, I think he's a master at understanding the rules.

He is using this short passing game, with some legal way of screening the defenders , exposing the weakness of the NFL rules.

No one can stop their short passing game, and they've been doing it for years.
gronk pushes off knowing they won't call it every time. He gets one call here or there but most times he's getting away with it. A

It's the Patriot way.