As predicted. Security Problems at Healthcare.gov

[JustRalph]

Now they are handing out peoples personal info to complete strangers, when they sign in.

http://blog.heritage.org/2013/11/02/exclusive-healthcare-gov-users-warn-of-security-risk-breach-of-privacy/

http://blog.heritage.org/wp-content/uploads/Capture-2.png

Glad you logged in now?

:bang:

[PaceAdvantage]

This is insane. Can you imagine how unsecured this healthcare.gov website must be? All the people on PaceAdvantage (lefties and righties both) who are concerned about their private information on the internet (and I know that includes MANY if not MOST of you on here), should be very concerned about the apparent AMATEUR nature of this government website.

I wouldn't touch this thing with a 10-foot pole until PROFESSIONALS get their hands on it and actually create a site that is both functional and secure.

Read this article for more eye-opening behind-the-scenes revelations on this total fiasco:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/11/03/on-sept-5-test-of-obamacares-website-cms-staffers-secretly-rooted-for-it-to-fail/

Obama and his administration deserve to be DRAGGED OVER THE COALS for this...AND THEN SOME...the implementation of Obamacare has been more irresponsible than anyone here ever dared dream. And that's a fact.

[Clocker]

I wouldn't touch this thing with a 10-foot pole until PROFESSIONALS get their hands on it and actually create a site that is both functional and secure.

Read this article for more eye-opening behind-the-scenes revelations on this total fiasco:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/11/03/on-sept-5-test-of-obamacares-website-cms-staffers-secretly-rooted-for-it-to-fail/

The libs will be along shortly to show that everything in that article is false because it appeared in Forbes. The article shows once again that government programs are biased toward failure because there is no risk/reward trade off, and because there is no penalty for failure.

The article further demonstrates the amateur show that is the Obama administration. Virtually all the outside contractors that worked on the web site were highly critical of the fact that the government acted as its own general contractor rather than hire a professional firm. (Not that this stopped them from taking the money!)

All of this was easily foreseen by anyone with any knowledge of the process.

On Fox Business Network’s “Cavuto” on Wednesday, computer programmer and founder of McAfee, Inc. John McAfee said the online component of Obamacare “is a hacker’s wet dream” that will cause “the loss of income for the millions of Americans who are going to lose their identities.”
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/03/john-mcafee-on-obamacare-this-is-a-hackers-wet-dream-video/#ixzz2jdDd4CK7

[PaceAdvantage]

"A hacker's wet dream" perfectly sums up healthcare.gov, given everything we've seen and read to date.

[johnhannibalsmith]

It's amazing. We cynical skeptics that whined and cried about what a disaster the implementation of this scam would be now would read like optimists if you were to dig through the archives.

[ElKabong]

"It's Working!" in :3: :2: :1: .................. :jump:

[NJ Stinks]

The libs will be along shortly to show that everything in that article is false because it appeared in Forbes. The article shows once again that government programs are biased toward failure because there is no risk/reward trade off, and because there is no penalty for failure.

The article further demonstrates the amateur show that is the Obama administration.

Just a couple counterpoints.

1. The "amateur show" kicked your boys butts twice. Easily.

2. If you even remotely wished that the website worked brilliantly, it would be almost bearable to listen to your drivel. :rolleyes:

[JustRalph]

Just a couple counterpoints.

1. The "amateur show" kicked your boys butts twice. Easily.

2. If you even remotely wished that the website worked brilliantly, it would be almost bearable to listen to your drivel. :rolleyes:

That's been their problem all along. All they know how to do is campaign and shoot missiles from drones.

[PaceAdvantage]

Just a couple counterpoints.

1. The "amateur show" kicked your boys butts twice. Easily.

2. If you even remotely wished that the website worked brilliantly, it would be almost bearable to listen to your drivel. :rolleyes:Unfortunately, their brilliance at winning campaigns doesn't translate to brilliance anywhere else. Including a simple website.

Why would we wish that it worked brilliantly when we vehemently disagree with the premise?

And seriously, if this were some Republican backed program that you disagreed with, and their associated website was as big an initial disaster as this has turned out to be, you would be right there saying "I told you so...look at these fools" too, and you know it.

I keep going back to that famous Seinfeld episode...this sums it up perfectly:

_T35QhLx_KI

And in case you don't get it...George lying there in his underwear is the embodiment of HealthCare.gov

[Clocker]

[QUOTE=NJ If you even remotely wished that the website worked brilliantly, it would be almost bearable to listen to your drivel. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

My wishes and your opinions of them do not change reality. Reality is that a 20 year old slacker living in his mother's basement, subsisting on Mountain Dew and Cheetos, could have produced a better web site in about a week.

[Rise Over Run]

My wishes and your opinions of them do not change reality. Reality is that a 20 year old slacker living in his mother's basement, subsisting on Mountain Dew and Cheetos, could have produced a better web site in about a week.

This guy??
http://blogs.miaminewtimes.com/shortorder/super-computer-nerd.jpg

[tucker6]

This guy??
http://blogs.miaminewtimes.com/shortorder/super-computer-nerd.jpg
that photo brings up a good point. If Obama and the govt were so hell bent in giving us great health care at the cheapest price, why do they allow smoking to continue?

[newtothegame]

that photo brings up a good point. If Obama and the govt were so hell bent in giving us great health care at the cheapest price, why do they allow smoking to continue?
Because although smoking is bad, yes I do smoke, why stop there? Isn't obesity a major problem in the u.s.? Let's ban eating while we are at it! :rolleyes:

[Robert Goren]

Did Obama write the code for the health care site? As for concern about your personal information, I hate to break this to you, anybody who wants to know anything about you already knows it. It has been that way since long before Obama became president. Your doctors and the hospitals have all been using computers for decades and they all can be hacked. One of my doctors is setting up a system where you can fill out that sheet they hand you when step in the office door that will allow a patient to fill it out at home on the net. Makes things a lot easier, but opens up another way in. But at this point, it just doesn't matter anymore.

[Tom]

Swing and a miss, Bobby.

[DJofSD]

Swing and a miss, Bobby.
What's the count?

[wisconsin]

that photo brings up a good point. If Obama and the govt were so hell bent in giving us great health care at the cheapest price, why do they allow smoking to continue?


Ahhhhh the double edged sword of smoking. On one hand, some would like people to stop smoking. On the other hand, they don't want smokers to go away because of the enormous tax revenue it brings in.

[wisconsin]

Did Obama write the code for the health care site? As for concern about your personal information, I hate to break this to you, anybody who wants to know anything about you already knows it. It has been that way since long before Obama became president. Your doctors and the hospitals have all been using computers for decades and they all can be hacked. One of my doctors is setting up a system where you can fill out that sheet they hand you when step in the office door that will allow a patient to fill it out at home on the net. Makes things a lot easier, but opens up another way in. But at this point, it just doesn't matter anymore.


Yes, I see. You don't expect more from an actual government site. Wow.

[Robert Goren]

Tom must be blind. I am hitting better than Big Popi.;)

[Robert Goren]

Yes, I see. You don't expect more from an actual government site. Wow. I have learned not expect anything from a new web site no matter who put it up. The City of Lincoln took 4 month to get their site where people could pay their monthly parking bills right. I had deal with a lot of unhappy people back then. I don't think code writers ever get anything right the first time, probably not even the 20th time. No matter who they work for.

[Robert Goren]

Ahhhhh the double edged sword of smoking. On one hand, some would like people to stop smoking. On the other hand, they don't want smokers to go away because of the enormous tax revenue it brings in. The costs to the government outweigh any tax revenue that it brings in. Just think for a second about enormous Medicare and Medicaid costs that smoking causes.

[wisconsin]

The costs to the government outweigh any tax revenue that it brings in. Just think for a second about enormous Medicare and Medicaid costs that smoking causes.


Valid point, but the revenue hits the books now, versus future costs. Higher taxes would deter smokers further, to be sure.

[TJDave]

Higher taxes would deter smokers further, to be sure.

I think we've already passed that point, at least in California. Even generic brands are at about $5.00. Those who are still smoking are apparently hopelessly addicted. You could double the price and I don't think it would matter.

[DJofSD]

I don't think code writers ever get anything right the first time, probably not even the 20th time. No matter who they work for.
It is impossible to prove a program is bug free. And, by extension, since a web site is nothing more than a collection of programs, it too is not free from bugs.

But it is not the measure of how close to perfection a program comes which makes it usable or not. It is how it handles the unexpected errors along with the expected one, and, does it do its intended function.

By all measures, the health care web site misses those marks by wide margins.

And then there's the lack of due diligence to the issues of performance and security.

The app designers and coders might get a pass but the management and planners do not.

[Clocker]

Just think for a second about enormous Medicare and Medicaid costs that smoking causes.

Think of how much money they save in future medical costs and Social Security benefits when those people die younger than normally.

[Clocker]

By all measures, the health care web site misses those marks by wide margins.

And then there's the lack of due diligence to the issues of performance and security.


The contractors testified before Congress that they needed at least a couple of months for testing. They were given less than 2 weeks. And after the system crashed during that testing (while running with 200 simulated users), the administration decided to launch on Oct. 1 anyway.

[Tom]

Clearly, the due diligence was ignored, so the blame falls squarely, and totally, on the Obama administration.

You know who is happy about the website failure?

Joe Biden.
Nothing he says or doses breaks into the top 10 stupid things every day anymore. :lol:

[Clocker]

Joe Biden.
Nothing he says or doses breaks into the top 10 stupid things every day anymore. :lol:

You know the country is in deep yogurt when Joe Biden is the voice of reason in the administration. :eek:

[Mike at A+]

Just a couple counterpoints.

1. The "amateur show" kicked your boys butts twice. Easily.
Considering the caliber of his typical voter it is understandable. Promising free stuff to uneducated, unskilled and unmotivated people seems like a pretty good deal to those people. There is no denying that for the first time in American history the next generation will have it much more difficult than their parents (the ones who actually have a work ethic at least).

[DJofSD]

There is no denying that for the first time in American history the next generation will have it much more difficult than their parents (the ones who actually have a work ethic at least).
I thought the very same thing this morning. And it's made me depressed.

[NJ Stinks]

Considering the caliber of his typical voter it is understandable. Promising free stuff to uneducated, unskilled and unmotivated people seems like a pretty good deal to those people. There is no denying that for the first time in American history the next generation will have it much more difficult than their parents (the ones who actually have a work ethic at least).

Yes, I've always been disgusted by anybody who votes in their own best interest. Especially those who only care about tax cuts and how much they will benefit by said cuts. :rolleyes:

[Mike at A+]

Yes, I've always been disgusted by anybody who votes in their own best interest. Especially those who only care about tax cuts and how much they will benefit by said cuts. :rolleyes:
Tax cuts have the intended goal of creating jobs and stimulating the economy. Handouts to people not interested in working has the intended goal of keeping Democrats in cushy jobs.

[NJ Stinks]

Tax cuts have the intended goal of creating jobs and stimulating the economy. Handouts to people not interested in working has the intended goal of keeping Democrats in cushy jobs.

Ever consider the fact that unaffordable tax cuts pass government debt on to future generations?

[Mike at A+]

Ever consider the fact that unaffordable tax cuts pass government debt on to future generations?
Not if they create jobs that those future generations can prosper in. What we have today is a president who turns down obvious job creation in favor of keeping people down and on the dole. Some people are satisfied with mediocrity if it means they can sleep till noon and live for free.

[Robert Goren]

It is impossible to prove a program is bug free. And, by extension, since a web site is nothing more than a collection of programs, it too is not free from bugs.

But it is not the measure of how close to perfection a program comes which makes it usable or not. It is how it handles the unexpected errors along with the expected one, and, does it do its intended function.

By all measures, the health care web site misses those marks by wide margins.

And then there's the lack of due diligence to the issues of performance and security.

The app designers and coders might get a pass but the management and planners do not.The best management in the world isn't worth a darn if the code writers don't get it right. I suppose you could say they could have hired better code writers. I am sure they thought they had the best and maybe they did. Nobody wants their website to go down. A web site is 100% in the hands of the techs. All management can do is tell them what they want and hope the techs deliver. Been there, done that and let me tell you there is no more helpless feeling than having customers literally screaming at you wanting to use your site and you have no working site and you can't even get a straight answer as to when it will be up. Everything including security comes down to in the end how well the code writers do their job. No manager ever want his site down or compromised, but there is very little he can do about it if the techs can't deliver. And it is not like you can fire your techs and bring in new ones to fix it. If you fire your code writers, you will have start over from scratch or at least that what every code writers has told me. I have never met a code writer who would even look at someone else's code to see if they could fix it. I know because I have tried to find one.

[Robert Goren]

The contractors testified before Congress that they needed at least a couple of months for testing. They were given less than 2 weeks. And after the system crashed during that testing (while running with 200 simulated users), the administration decided to launch on Oct. 1 anyway.They knew what they had to do when they took the job. If they knew they couldn't do the job, why did they take it? I doubt any GOP congressman asked that question.

[chrisl]

I am a commercial building superintendent. I oversee the construction of large projects such as wal-mart, home depot etc. there are literally millions of components that have to come together during the building phase so these projects stay safe during construction then also budget,time,quality. When something goes wrong in any phase, I get sat down on my ass and have to answer how did this happen and what plan needs to be executed to right the ship. They do not go to any of the subcontractors involved, only me and my project manager. It only takes a few of these or just one bad one and I am sent packing. Oh shit I am talking about the real world not the limp wrist ball less Government world. These are tax dollars literally being burned and if anyone thinks this is someone else's problem other than the Obama administration then they deserve to have there hard working money flushed down the ole toilet

[tucker6]

I am a commercial building superintendent. I oversee the construction of large projects such as wal-mart, home depot etc. there are literally millions of components that have to come together during the building phase so these projects stay safe during construction then also budget,time,quality. When something goes wrong in any phase, I get sat down on my ass and have to answer how did this happen and what plan needs to be executed to right the ship. They do not go to any of the subcontractors involved, only me and my project manager. It only takes a few of these or just one bad one and I am sent packing. Oh shit I am talking about the real world not the limp wrist ball less Government world. These are tax dollars literally being burned and if anyone thinks this is someone else's problem other than the Obama administration then they deserve to have there hard working money flushed down the ole toilet
People like Mostie and Mr Goren who haven't held a real job in their lifetimes have no idea what you just wrote. That's the God's honest truth based on the drivel they post.

[Robert Goren]

I am a commercial building superintendent. I oversee the construction of large projects such as wal-mart, home depot etc. there are literally millions of components that have to come together during the building phase so these projects stay safe during construction then also budget,time,quality. When something goes wrong in any phase, I get sat down on my ass and have to answer how did this happen and what plan needs to be executed to right the ship. They do not go to any of the subcontractors involved, only me and my project manager. It only takes a few of these or just one bad one and I am sent packing. Oh shit I am talking about the real world not the limp wrist ball less Government world. These are tax dollars literally being burned and if anyone thinks this is someone else's problem other than the Obama administration then they deserve to have there hard working money flushed down the ole toiletI have dealt with a lot of sub contractors too, but techs are a breed unto themselves. They have you by the balls and they know it. Once you made a decision of what tech company to go with, you have to live or die with them. There is no go back because it means going back to square one. You could say the Obama administration picked the wrong company and you would have a point. But you can't let the techs off the hook. They knew what they getting into and everybody should who they are. That way they don't get a chance to this to someone else.

[Robert Goren]

People like Mostie and Mr Goren who haven't held a real job in their lifetimes have no idea what you just wrote. That's the God's honest truth based on the drivel they post.You have no idea what kind of jobs I have held. I dare say I did more work before I graduated high school than you have done in your life. That what happens you grow up on a farm in 1950s. From the way you talk you probably come from money and think you earned every penny you have had given to you. Sort like Romney.

[Clocker]

I am a commercial building superintendent.


When something goes wrong in any phase, I get sat down on my ass and have to answer how did this happen and what plan needs to be executed to right the ship. They do not go to any of the subcontractors involved, only me and my project manager.


One of the big knocks on this project was that the Department of Health and Human Services did not hire a general contractor. CMS (Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services) acted as general contractor, supervising 55 contractors. The first thing the government troubleshooter brought in to fix this did was to hire a general contractor to manager the fix.

[Robert Goren]

One of the big knocks on this project was that the Department of Health and Human Services did not hire a general contractor. CMS (Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services) acted as general contractor, supervising 55 contractors. The first thing the government troubleshooter brought in to fix this did was to hire a general contractor to manager the fix. That is a legitimate criticism if true.

[tucker6]

You have no idea what kind of jobs I have held. I dare say I did more work before I graduated high school than you have done in your life. That what happens you grow up on a farm in 1950s. From the way you talk you probably come from money and think you earned every penny you have had given to you. Sort like Romney.
I hope you don't pick horses for a living. That's as far from reality for me as I could imagine. :D

[Robert Goren]

I hope you don't pick horses for a living. That's as far from reality for me as I could imagine. :DNo I didn't. A friend of my Dad's did. I wanted no part of that life style. For the record, I spent most of the first part of my life working the liquor business, bartending, running small town bars and a liquor store. In 1987, I move into the parking business working my way up from cashier to asst. city manager for Ampco System Parking, a private parking management company, who had the contract to manage the 9 city Of Lincoln parking garages. My boss handled the politics. I handled the operations. My health failed in 2006 and I went on SS disability early in 2008.

[Clocker]

That is a legitimate criticism if true.

Easy enough to verify. All it takes is Google (http://washingtontechnology.com/articles/2013/10/25/zients-big-fixes-by-thanksgiving.aspx).

Quality Software Services Inc. has been tapped by the Centers for Medicaid and Medicare to act as a general contractor overseeing the fixes of the troubled HealthCare.gov website.

CMS had previously been acting as its own systems integrator and QSSI was one of the contractors working for it. QSSI was responsible for building the data hub that connects information from a variety of government agencies to determine applicants' eligibility for insurance under the 2010 health care law. The company also built a component of the HealthCare.gov's identity management tool.

[Robert Goren]

Easy enough to verify. All it takes is Google (http://washingtontechnology.com/articles/2013/10/25/zients-big-fixes-by-thanksgiving.aspx). I am still looking for a site that I have heard of reporting this story. No mention of it by an main line media sources including Fox News and CNN. I am not saying it is not true, but I find it a little strange that no one but a few blogs are covering it. Maybe I just didn't google the right words.

[PaceAdvantage]

Did you not check out post #2 in this thread? Where I posted a link to that Forbes article? I thought they had talked about it in there...

[lamboguy]

the massachusetts website is down all the time too. if you try to call like i did, you wait for 2 1/2 hours and after you get a live person you get disconnected.

yet i did receive a notice from them that if i am not properly insured that there are stiff penalties for not obeying the laws.

the insurance company that i had is no longer in this state and that is why i am trying to sign up for this health care insurance

[Robert Goren]

Did you not check out post #2 in this thread? Where I posted a link to that Forbes article? I thought they had talked about it in there... I did, thanks. I also found another interesting article on a different subject which I will be starting a thread on.

[Clocker]

There was at least one story on CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/24/politics/congress-obamacare-website/index.html)about this.
In the first detailed account of what happened, officials of four contractors involved in the website creation described a convoluted system of multiple companies operating separately under the oversight of CMS, a part of the Department of Health and Human Services.

Each said their individual components generally performed as planned after internal testing, but all conceded that CMS failed to conduct sufficient "end-to-end" testing of the entire system before the launch.

[DJofSD]

The best management in the world isn't worth a darn if the code writers don't get it right. I suppose you could say they could have hired better code writers. I am sure they thought they had the best and maybe they did. Nobody wants their website to go down. A web site is 100% in the hands of the techs. All management can do is tell them what they want and hope the techs deliver. Been there, done that and let me tell you there is no more helpless feeling than having customers literally screaming at you wanting to use your site and you have no working site and you can't even get a straight answer as to when it will be up. Everything including security comes down to in the end how well the code writers do their job. No manager ever want his site down or compromised, but there is very little he can do about it if the techs can't deliver. And it is not like you can fire your techs and bring in new ones to fix it. If you fire your code writers, you will have start over from scratch or at least that what every code writers has told me. I have never met a code writer who would even look at someone else's code to see if they could fix it. I know because I have tried to find one.
With all due respect, I don't think you really understand the problem let alone very large software development projects or the work product produced by them.

Yes, I understand you have had some experience writing software and having interactions with end users. That is not the same as writing an operating system, a system of application programs or the front and back end of a web based application.

And as to a code writer that would not look at or fix some other programmers code, get real. More than 50% of all effort on software is maintenance which is fixing bugs, correcting logic errors, enhancements and the like. You can't call yourself a programmer or coder if you don't read and change some one else's code. What you likely ran into was some people that could smell a bad design and implementation from a mile away.

[Robert Goren]

With all due respect, I don't think you really understand the problem let alone very large software development projects or the work product produced by them.

Yes, I understand you have had some experience writing software and having interactions with end users. That is not the same as writing an operating system, a system of application programs or the front and back end of a web based application.

And as to a code writer that would not look at or fix some other programmers code, get real. More than 50% of all effort on software is maintenance which is fixing bugs, correcting logic errors, enhancements and the like. You can't call yourself a programmer or coder if you don't read and change some one else's code. What you likely ran into was some people that could smell a bad design and implementation from a mile away.Just to be clear, I don't write code. What I have experience with is dealing with people who write code. While I have met code writers who add code to someone else's program. I have never met an experienced code writer who will go in re-write somebody else's lines of codes. They consider that a "fools mission" . That was a code writer's exact term.
Clearly this project was beyond abilities of the people hired to do it. You can blame Obama and his people for hiring them. But don't blame them for the code writers's errors and blame the law until they get the computer program(s) up and running. That is all I am saying. The law should stand or fail on how well it performs, not because some program writers didn't get the code right the first time.

[DJofSD]

We'll never know if the architects, the planners, i.e project management, the DBA's, the programmers or the testers were up to snuff. I would expect most are and given a good design and project management along with a reasonable schedule, they could deliver something decent.

But what is pretty clear, no one ever read "The Mythical Man Month." What we have here is very likely the type of thinking they could take nine women to make a baby in one month.

[Clocker]

But don't blame them for the code writers's errors and blame the law until they get the computer program(s) up and running. That is all I am saying. The law should stand or fail on how well it performs, not because some program writers didn't get the code right the first time.

No one is blaming the law for the web site problems. Both are symptoms of a much deeper problem, which is a bloated government too big to function and trying to get even bigger. The problem is legislators who don't know how to write laws, and an administration that doesn't know how to implement them. The problem is people running the country who don't understand the proper role of government. The problem is an unlimited thirst for power and unlimited egos trying to acquire it.

[Clocker]

I would expect most are and given a good design and project management along with a reasonable schedule, they could deliver something decent.



That's not clear either. CGI was fired by the province of Ontario after it was unable to build a diabetes patient data base. And it was fired by the government of Canada after a failed attempt to build a national gun registry.

[DJofSD]

That's not clear either. CGI was fired by the province of Ontario after it was unable to build a diabetes patient data base. And it was fired by the government of Canada after a failed attempt to build a national gun registry.
Yes, and CGI is involved with the hurricane Sandy relief in the garden state where something like 3% of available monies have been spent to date. What are they doing and what are they waiting for? Geeze, put Norm and Kevin and the TOH crew in charge!

I'm not familiar with those other projects. So, I'll just say this: a good design is easily foiled by bad project management and/or poor implementation. It does not mean the code, the servers or the processes to make it all hang together are bad -- they could have problems. But what I suspect is the company is full of good ol' boys and girls which either do not have the experience or are more political than technical. It's probably all chiefs and no indians.

[Mike at A+]

For coders (myself included), maintaining the code of others is a daily chore. It's part of the job description. We are hired on that ability. I have fought many fires over my 40 year career and as much as we'd like a flawless and thoroughly tested system BEFORE it goes into production, the reality is that many times bugs crop up IN production. But these bugs are typically minor in scope and corrected in less than 24 hours. When I was at Morgan Stanley in the late 90s, I was in an on call rotation once every 4 weeks with three other consultants. When that beeper went off at 3 AM, you got your ass out of a warm bed and fixed the problem. In my five years at Morgan Stanley, I fixed EVERY overnight job issue in anywhere between 15 minutes (my minimum billing) and 3 hours. Many of the systems I worked on were probably larger than 0bamacare with hundreds of thousands of lines of code written by sometimes hundreds of different programmers. My job was at stake every time that beeper went off because if the traders didn't have what they needed when they got in, my ass was in big trouble. That is how it works in the real world of the private sector.

[DJofSD]

For coders (myself included), maintaining the code of others is a daily chore. It's part of the job description. We are hired on that ability. I have fought many fires over my 40 year career and as much as we'd like a flawless and thoroughly tested system BEFORE it goes into production, the reality is that many times bugs crop up IN production. But these bugs are typically minor in scope and corrected in less than 24 hours. When I was at Morgan Stanley in the late 90s, I was in an on call rotation once every 4 weeks with three other consultants. When that beeper went off at 3 AM, you got your ass out of a warm bed and fixed the problem. In my five years at Morgan Stanley, I fixed EVERY overnight job issue in anywhere between 15 minutes (my minimum billing) and 3 hours. Many of the systems I worked on were probably larger than 0bamacare with hundreds of thousands of lines of code written by sometimes hundreds of different programmers. My job was at stake every time that beeper went off because if the traders didn't have what they needed when they got in, my ass was in big trouble. That is how it works in the real world of the private sector.
BTDT -- operating systems, vendor products, hardware problems even operation staff issues. Good response.

Too bad we can't have a few beers and swap stories.

[Mike at A+]

BTDT -- operating systems, vendor products, hardware problems even operation staff issues. Good response.

Too bad we can't have a few beers and swap stories.
Well the Mrs. and I are driving cross country next year and I have a few Cali breweries on my wish list.